Emotional manipulators

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

 
Hello, friends. I don’t have a lot of time on the board for a bit, but I’ve been checking in while I can to read some posts. There is some great back and forth going on here. It looks like it’s been very constructive. I’ve even seen some light heartedness. Being said, I’m a dog guy! 

I’ve read about how hard it is to not contact our exes. I’m still there. It’s very hard. There have been phases as to why I continue to try. The one I’m in now, is the question “why?”. Can you guess what her answer is? Crickets. Chirp, chirp. If I was where I should be for myself, I wouldn’t need to ask her that question. I would be preoccupied with my own healing more than I am.

I’ve read about arrested development and how that’s one of the last conclusions that we come to. Usually after starting the detective work and trying to figure out what’s going on inside our relationship. Sometimes, after it imploded.

The complexity and dynamic of these situations is something to behold. Some were/are married, some were dating, some were casual partners, some were in serious relationships, etc. the dynamic between the perceived pwBPD and the partner is full of variables. Far too many to pick apart here.

The only thing that we can pick apart, in my personal opinion, are the behaviors that we experienced. We must include ourselves in this picking apart process at some point to approve the space that it’s taking up in our mind and body. We didn’t have to ask for this. It came to us naturally.

In most cases here, we got into bed with emotional manipulators. Of course we did! We let go of much of who we were. They took it. Many of us gave more to them more than once. I see BPD being standardized as, well, BPD in a lot of what I read.

Being hurt by these individuals is a two way street. I’m not preaching. I’m learning by conviction. We can’t blame them entirely. If we did, we’re simply thinking in a stunted and disordered fashion, ourselves.

Did you feel like you were emotionally manipulated by your ex? If so, why did you stay? Were the feelings of emotional manipulation familiar in some way?

[JNChell]

 
Hello, friends. I don’t have a lot of time on the board for a bit, but I’ve been checking in while I can to read some posts. There is some great back and forth going on here. It looks like it’s been very constructive. I’ve even seen some light heartedness. Being said, I’m a dog guy! 

I’ve read about how hard it is to not contact our exes. I’m still there. It’s very hard. There have been phases as to why I continue to try. The one I’m in now, is the question “why?”. Can you guess what her answer is? Crickets. Chirp, chirp. If I was where I should be for myself, I wouldn’t need to ask her that question. I would be preoccupied with my own healing more than I am.

I’ve read about arrested development and how that’s one of the last conclusions that we come to. Usually after starting the detective work and trying to figure out what’s going on inside our relationship. Sometimes, after it imploded.

The complexity and dynamic of these situations is something to behold. Some were/are married, some were dating, some were casual partners, some were in serious relationships, etc. the dynamic between the perceived pwBPD and the partner is full of variables. Far too many to pick apart here.

The only thing that we can pick apart, in my personal opinion, are the behaviors that we experienced. We must include ourselves in this picking apart process at some point to approve the space that it’s taking up in our mind and body. We didn’t have to ask for this. It came to us naturally.

In most cases here, we got into bed with emotional manipulators. Of course we did! We let go of much of who we were. They took it. Many of us gave more to them more than once. I see BPD being standardized as, well, BPD in a lot of what I read.

Being hurt by these individuals is a two way street. I’m not preaching. I’m learning by conviction. We can’t blame them entirely. If we did, we’re simply thinking in a stunted and disordered fashion, ourselves.

Did you feel like you were emotionally manipulated by your ex? If so, why did you stay? Were the feelings of emotional manipulation familiar in some way?

[Speck]

JNChell!

This is such a great topic. I'll bite:

Did you feel like you were emotionally manipulated by your ex?

Oh, absolutely. The last two years of our marriage, I began to recognize that her beaming, beautiful, pasted-on-smile would precede all sorts of financial manipulation. I saw it when she tried to get me to sell the house several times (the house was paid in full by me before we were married), I saw it when she tried to get me to buy her some expensive lakefront property, and I saw it when she tried to get me to buy her a $50,000 RV rig. Luckily, I was hip to that smile before I pulled the trigger on those purchases.

If so, why did you stay?

I stayed because I loved her and I married her. I thought if I just tried a little harder, continued to have the patience of Job, and hung in there, things would iron out. To death do us part... .the whole bit. I found out about her probable diagnosis of BPD only after she had left me the fourth time. After that awful understanding, I just let her keep on walking and watched her divorce me without contest.

Were the feelings of emotional manipulation familiar in some way?

Yes. I learned the Let's Play Pretend! game while growing up in my FoO with a raging NPD mother and weak father. My mother could control my actions with a single look. My wife could, too. Until she couldn't... .

Had I not discovered my uBPDxw's manipulative ploy to bleed me dry financially by smiling me to death, I would be handing over half the proceeds of the sale of both the lakefront property and the $50,000 RV rig to her right now... .instead of sitting in the office of a home I've always owned with a beautiful gray & white tuxedo cat in my lap.

His name is Possum Jack, and we're going to be fine.


-Speck

[Kaboodle]

Did you feel like you were emotionally manipulated by your ex? If so, why did you stay? Were the feelings of emotional manipulation familiar in some way?

I feel like I was emotionally abused by my ex.
I stayed because I believed I deserved his abuse.
I have an abusive FOO so his abuse felt familiar in many ways.

[Cromwell]

I knew i was being manipulated, i even made it clear to her that she was so that she wasnt under the impression i was stupid not to know.

i wanted her to know that I would have done all these things for her without the need to manipulate or power-play.

the issue my ex had was that she never met people in her life that would do anything for her and not expect anything back or at least, this is what she stated she wasnt used to me, i was different than her past experiences. she most likely did have people like myself but she did not trust or believe in them enough due to having had such bad experiences before. as she said once "all the good people leave me"

I feel sorry for her because as time went on in our relationship I believe she did know I was a genuine person but it then led to her having to constantly feel guilt for what she had done to deceive and manipulate as well as knowing that I knew she had. it became shame-inducing just to be with me. she tried her best, she stopped the manipulation a great deal stopped in some ways a lot of the boundary pushing because I had already proven so much to her already.

for the way i idolised her, it only came as a conclusion that she was "too good to be true". where-as she will have began with this mindset.

if she couldnt find a fault in me, she would do her utmost to manufacture one. she did this with all her exs, and with me she went to great lengths of stalking. its like what shawnlam said when hers told him "i wish you would just get angry with me, throw me into the wall or something".

basically take away that shame and guilt somehow is the way I see it. at the same time she knew or felt she knew that I was in love with someone that she had hidden, so in her mind, I couldnt love her as I couldnt see her for what she really was. its why I gave her all the hints that I knew what she had done, but still wanted to be with her. the more i did this, paradoxically; the more ill she became.

she was a very troubled person and so was I when she met me. I thought I had someone who could help me through my own issues as I would help hers, and there was huge success in this, a lot of it coming post-break up for me. But im not a fan of doing it the way she does "tough love" involving having to associate it with pain. I really just wanted a kind, respectful, trustworthy partner who was highly attractive as a bonus.
but that would have been too stale for her.

I like it that i showed her parts of my life and interests that involved having fun without the need to be destructive. it turns out that she adopted these things (in the chameleon way) and has no doubt used it to attract other new people in her life.

as they say imitation is the highest form of flattery.

there was an element of submissiveness sexual interplay going on. im not someone who is into that but as I started to get the vibe that she wanted control I think I had to manipulate it to appear so. it is strange because the more I did, the more it would lead to sex. the days that I appeared happy, natural confident with myself and openly loving was like a challenge to want to whip me down.

to conclude I would have had less torture if I had just hired a dominatrix for each day of the week.

[stixx44]

Sometimes I would allow her to manipulate me to keep the peace.  I always knew she was doing it.  I tried to pick my battles with her.

However, more often than not, she didn’t.  As a matter of fact, she once told me that she was always able to get everything she wanted from her exes but not from me.

And she added that she found that attractive.

She also liked being submissive in all things and stated that.  It got quite annoying when I would ask her where she wanted to eat or what would you like to do today and the answer was always “You decide.”  That gets tiring quite quickly.

I had been in a 38-year relationship prior to this (my partner passed away from illness) and it was a normal give-and-take situation.  A beautiful relationship.

This r/s was a totally different breed... .I wasn’t prepared for the drama, chaos, or intensity of emotion by both of us.  I became a different person with her—not one I liked, either.

[Shawnlam]

Yes I definitely was emotionally abused and I knew it the whole time.Why did I tolerate it for as long as I did ... .because I love her.I remember after she got an abortion she’s lying on my couch,my head is leaning on her legs I’m petting her hair and neck.She says to me , why are you so kind to me? I told her because I know what you are and what you are doing.The texts,the fake image you portray in public,the things you keep secret I know what you are doing I see right through it.Then I said ,even with all that I still love you baby, so you understand? You don’t need to manipulate me because you already have me. She just layer there crying soundless .I kissed her on the forehead and told her rest my love you’ve been through a lot today ,I’ll take care of you.
When she left my house the next day I got a two page text saying look I don’t  want to have a relationship if you think I’m a liar and don’t trust me etc etc yup back to drama ... .then she sends me a text of her navigation screen showing me her ex boyfriend texted her.
No matter how close you think you are getting to their core it’s all bullsh$& .They live in perpetual lies ,manipulation and deceit.I took this for 3 months (first three we the best times of my life although it was her mirroring me so it was BS).THe last 3 months love or not I just couldn’t keep waking up with anxiety,losing weight,not concentrating at work ,always looking out for what’s next coming down the tunnel.Pretending in someway that the more love I threw at her she would understand,more love =worse drama.Needed my sanity more than love approval from someone I now know could never provide me.Dont get me wrong it still hurts bad and I still love her ,but when you have a better chance at winning the lotto VS helping someone this sick ,gotta let go.

[heartandwhole]

Great reflection topic!

Was it manipulation, though, in the sense that many view it as planned and intentional? Honest question.

Could pwBPD have been simply using the tools they had to get what they thought they needed? Like a child who smiles or does something nice to you, knowing that you'll give him/her a candy?

Did we "manipulate" pwBPD when we gave them every ounce of our energy and attention and love—even compromising our values, in some cases—in order to ensure that they would love us back and not leave?

heartandwhole 

 

[Shawnlam]

Great reflection topic!

Was it manipulation, though, in the sense that many view it as planned and intentional? Honest question.

Could pwBPD have been simply using the tools they had to get what they thought they needed? Like a child who smiles or does something nice to you, knowing that you'll give him/her a candy?

Did we "manipulate" pwBPD when we gave them every ounce of our energy and attention and love—even compromising our values, in some cases—in order to ensure that they would love us back and not leave?

heartandwhole

 


I would have to disagree on did we manipulate them.Manipulation is doing something you know is wrong to get something in return for selfish reasons.I never manipulated my love, everything I did was to make her feel special,loved,cared for.Was there a hope she’d love me back? Of course ! But was the point of my heaters to trick her to? NO! I loved loving her if that makes sense ! Being kind and loving to her brought me genuine joy , none of it was a preset plan to get to an end result.I would have been less hurt if she would of said ,I don’t love you back I’m sorry I need to let you go VS the BS responses and trickery thrown my way.So no , I don’t believe we tried to manipulate them in any way,we were being human to a robot covered in flesh.
 

[lighthouse9]

Great reflection topic!

Was it manipulation, though, in the sense that many view it as planned and intentional? Honest question.

I don't think it was planned and intentional in my case. I could be wrong, but I've read a lot that people with BPD can't actually manipulate in an intentional way. They act out of fear or have very maladaptive ways of getting what they want/need.

That's not to say that the impact wasn't huge. I feel used and awful, but I really do believe my STBXw was doing the best she could (at the moment). It wasn't until after the fact, after the big blow up and huge dysregulation moment that I was able to come to terms with some of the things I was feeling/experiencing.

Could pwBPD have been simply using the tools they had to get what they thought they needed? Like a child who smiles or does something nice to you, knowing that you'll give him/her a candy?

Did we "manipulate" pwBPD when we gave them every ounce of our energy and attention and love—even compromising our values, in some cases—in order to ensure that they would love us back and not leave?

heartandwhole  

 

I had started a coaching program to gain more confidence/deal with some of her spiraling right before she asked for divorce. I truly believe this escalated things for us, because I stopped giving in to her and stopped reacting to her every whim. I think this drove her nuts, unintentionally on my part. I was just trying to focus on being a calm, stable presence in the household and was learning to not take everything she did so personally. I really think it threw her through a loop because her behavior stopped having the desired effect. To this day, I have had a lot of people tell me (therapists included) that my calm behavior to her was probably the last thing she expected and it probably spoiled her abandonment game a little bit. I think she expected me to flip out completely when finding out about the affair, when instead I was concerned and loving. I made it clear that I did not condone her behavior and that it had no place in our marriage, but I also was open to asking her what was so wrong that she had to behave in a way that was against her values. This is when she started to admit to BPD and some of the stuff she did that she learned from her FOO but that she knew was wrong.

So, yes, to answer your question heartandwhole, I think what I was doing before could count as an unintentional emotional manipulation. By not having boundaries and by reacting to every little thing she did, or even by trying to get ahead of her, I was definitely trying to keep her in the relationship with me at all costs. I think she did the same thing, sometimes in an idealization phase and then sometimes in a devaluation phase. In idealization, she gave into my every wish and desire and I had no idea how to hear her saying no (she really didn't say it, but I'm now learning how to "see" it). Then, resentment built up. In came devaluation, and it was then a game of "how far can I push lighthouse to change and be better for me to see how much she loves me." I took so much responsibility for our marriage and only now am I learning how unequal of an arrangement that was!

Did it feel like emotional manipulation from her? Absolutely. The gaslighting especially. What's worse, she accused me of gaslighting her when I started to change the things she didn't like about me and got help for some of my own stuff. When I started acting "better," she would say "I feel like I'm crazy because all of a sudden these things that bothered me just don't exist and that's not true, I know it's not true. I know you're gaslighting me." I was floored. I had made such a conscious effort to fix the things that were bothering or hurting her, and when I did, I was accused of manipulating her. What really was happening is that my behavior didn't match the devaluation and I imagine that did feel crazymaking. But, when I step back, I can see how absolutely no one in her life until me would take her seriously and would actually work on something to make things better. By being a partner who was willing to evolve and grow with her, I no longer matched relationship patterns from her life (mostly with her FOO) and therefore I HAD to be up to something. It must be terrible living with that kind of perspective and fear.

When we discussed her getting help and I lined up DBT counseling for both of us, she was so open about her thought processes and it was actually pretty wonderful and one of the most intimate times of our marriage. I can handle hearing about the messed up things in her head. I have my own messed up things. Intimacy is sharing those things and trusting another not to run when they see you. This is so against everything a person with BPD feels, and of course, mine eventually ran (after I found out she was lying about going to DBT).

I think that is the only thing giving me some sense of peace (which isn't often) in the end here. I was lucky to have some moments of clarity with her where she could walk and talk me through some of the things she did that felt like emotional manipulation to me. But, I was no match for the army of enablers in her life who already thought I was the devil and even though she admitted to devaluing me to them and pledged to "rescue my reputation" with them, I've seen no action. So, the behavior that results in emotional manipulation from her will continue - I just have an awareness now that I make a choice every time I play into it (mostly, she could still blindside me).

[The Cat in d Hat]

I almost always ignored or passively processed whenever she’d tried to talk about her past relationships, grandiose comments like “few men deserve me” or “men usually eat out the palm of my hands”, or attempt to make me jealous talking about other guys she met.

She would mention how she feels “she’d succumb to all this”, mentioning her problems and suicide. It was these comments id actually respond to and tell how she has plenty to live for, etc. she gathered plenty of sympathy from me at least here. Apparently it’s common for them to make threats as such?

At the end of course I was accused of passive aggression, insecurity, emotional blackmail and manipulation. -Projection

[Jeffree]

Did you feel like you were emotionally manipulated by your ex?

Yes, but I didn't realize it until very late in the relationship. The way I experienced it was that she'd bring up these crazy things, which I thought she genuinely thought or felt or did, and in trying to address them I only made things worse for myself.

When I started to realize the pattern of the set-up for her to abuse me, I began to not take the bait, BUT she only changed tactics. Ignoring her didn't work, because she was unrelenting, but that really was the best I could do. That, and leaving the house for entire weekends, and sometimes during the week if she was really bad.

If so, why did you stay?

To me, it's the age old question: How do you know your being manipulated if you're not looking for it? I wasn't looking for it, so I didn't know that's what was happening, and I treated those instances like they had the chance to be resolved with proper communication. Little did I know, that was how she did relationships and not only were things never going to get better, but they actually proceeded to get worse.

I knew early on I wanted out, but then things settled in reasonably OK for a couple of years. Once SD moved out, things took a really bad turn for the worst. It was as though all the abuse she doled out to my SD got shifted toward me and there was nowhere to run.

Were the feelings of emotional manipulation familiar in some way?

Not emotional manipulation, per se, but definitely lies and deceit, being minimized while trying to support someone, always being put in a position to make amends, etc.

J