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Dignity&Strength
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« on: August 31, 2018, 04:24:51 AM »

Mod Note:  This thread was split from:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328620.0;all

Hi everyone,

Today was earth shattering. S5 and I are safe, under care of social services and staying in the upstairs spare room at a friends house. I have friends who have stepped up, taken us in, and signed paperwork with social services to be physically responsible for us.

This happened, because I had to mandatory report to child protective services today. It was gut wrenching and extremely scary to me. I was so afraid of not being believed. But, they believed me. And they believed S5. S5 disclosed to me, sexual abuse, perpetrated by his dad. I was wearing my audio recorder, as Indo most of the time, just in case my husband calls, I can turn it on. When S5 started talking, I quickly turned it on.

It’s been a hard day. I do not know what will happen tomorrow. Or the next day. But Inwant to say thank you, to each of you, for helping me get this far.

Dig
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Panda39
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 07:53:12 AM »

Dignity&Strength,

I've been following your story, it's outside the scope of my experience so I have not posted before, but I wanted you to know that I'm here, that I'm listening and that I care.

I can't imagine how you are feeling about your son, as a mom what you heard must be so hard!  But I have to tell you I am so relieved that you are both out of that house and that you are both safely with friends.

Sending you and your son               

You have been handling your situation with intelligence and bravery and you will still need both going forward.

Wishing you and your son well 

Panda39
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 09:19:13 AM »

So sorry this has happened to you and your son.  You did what you had to do, that's to your credit.  With all the pain you feel, also know that you are making the best of a bad situation.

We often remark that the hardest step is the first one.  It's so hard to step out of our prior comfort zone, not that we were comfortable there but that it was all we knew.  With information, practical strategies and solid peer support you have made process.  It is now becoming less daunting to take each subsequent step forward.

Some of your prior worries (how can I complete my graduate courses? when does 10 years married count, at divorce filing or at final decree?) are not so urgent now that the feeling of a boxed-in environment is changing.  Focus for now on the important things at hand.  Likely you won't have a hard time seeking a temporary protective/restraining order, getting possession of the residence, etc.  Your child, you and your parenting, all that comes first.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 11:21:09 AM »

I am so very sorry that your son had to go through that, and so very glad that both of you are safe at the moment.

Why did your friends need to sign paperwork to be physically responsible for you?  What does that mean, legally?
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Dignity&Strength
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 10:32:14 PM »

Hi everyone,
Thanks Panda for such a sweet note. You are right, sitting in a medical exam where they do a rape kit on your child is excruciating.  Forever Dad, you are spot on. The first step is describably hard. I have marveled at how S5 made the step first by telling me.

I was granted the emergency protection order, for myself and S5 on Friday. We have a private, closed court hearing later in the week.
The friends who have taken us in, have truly given us a miracle. The bad was so bad, and the rescue is miraculously awesome.

Worried stepmom, The friends had to sign with social services, to not leave S5 and I alone together, basically. It is protocol having to do with preventive measures, to prevent any conversations that shouldn’t take place until I take their parenting classes.

Today was a good day. I am still in shock, at how horrible it is, How on earth a dad could do that to his own son. And hide that part of his personality so well.

So I am on to figuring out the next steps. I’ve msde sure, my attorneybwill be there and have time to meet with me before the court date.

Dig
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 12:44:52 AM »

Dig,

I'm glad you and S5 are safe.  Do you have access to your home to get things you need?

1)Things S5 has said in the past day, I simply cannot share. I am almost positive my husband coached him to say those things to set me up with whatever reaction he thought I’d have
These things S5 said that you were reluctant to share -- were they relevant to abuse?  Or were they different things?  It would be helpful to share in order to give a complete picture.

RC
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livednlearned
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 09:09:57 AM »

D&S,

I'm glad you're safe.

1)Things S5 has said in the past day, I simply cannot share. I am almost positive my husband coached him to say those things to set me up with whatever reaction he thought I’d have

Is this connected to what he told you about his dad?

I'm getting confused -- a lot seems to be moving quickly and changing fast.

Please fill us in so we can support you better.
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Dignity&Strength
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2018, 10:05:39 AM »

Hi WW, LNL,
The things you asked about are this, from my next note:
“S5 disclosed to me, sexual abuse, perpetrated by his dad. I was wearing my audio recorder, as Indo most of the time, just in case my husband calls, I can turn it on. When S5 started talking, I quickly turned it on.”

Because I sat on the info one day, (Wednesday), and reported on Thursday, I am in hot water with child protective services. Like I mentioned, I was not totally sure that my husband had not coached him to say that, as he has coached him to say other things in the past.
In the past he has coached him to say things like, the barnacle bill the sailor song from Popeye, where Popeye calls Olive Oil a cabbage head. My husband had S5 singing that song, (under the guise that it was innocent and cute), but in actuality, S5 was running up to me singing the line, “you’re nothing but a cabbage head”, while my husband was laughing and enjoying the set up.

Also, the attorney from years ago, around 2016, said that without indisputable evidence, of my husband actually doing something to s3 at the time, that my mothers instinct that he was capable of it, was not enough to prevent full joint custody.

According to the ‘Incest, a Mother’s Worst Nightmare” book, children recant, can be pursuaded to recant by the perpetrator, the mother can create accused of coaching the child to disclose, all sorts of things like that, where the end result was, the child ends up in the hands of the perpetrator, unsupervised.

So, to prevent that, I made a Hail Mary, attempted 3 point shot from the center line... .I left S5 with my husband for a little while Wednesday night, around supertime. With an attempt to record whatever may go on in the house. I tried one time to get indisputable evidence.

And that, may haunt me the rest of my life. The fall out from that short window of time, may be catastrophic. I am NOT a mandatory reporter YET, but when I finish my masters in professional counseling I will be. So, I have questions in my mind now like, will I be kicked out of grad school? Because I didn’t follow the mandatory reporting protocol?
Gotta finish later... .
Dig
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livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2018, 10:34:32 AM »

I was not totally sure that my husband had not coached him to say that

Meaning, you suspected that your H coached S5 to tell you that he (H) had sexually molested his S5?

Is that connected to what you recorded Wed night?

Sorry, trying to sort out what's happening here, and it can be hard on the Internet. We don't want to give you advice that makes things worse.

LnL
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 11:03:24 AM »

Dig,

I am so sorry for this turn of events. I am glad you and your son are safe, and that he is still in your custody. In my experience (also in a rural Southern area) Child Protective Services can treat the mother (whether a victim of abuse herself or not) as a perpetrator. My advice would be to say as little as possible to them. Do NOT trust the caseworker. I know that sounds terrible, and I'm sure that there are some ethical people who genuinely care for the best interests of the child who work for CPS. However, in my experience, it is crucial to get a lawyer involved right away. Do not sign anything without a lawyer. It would be best if you could get your lawyer to attend any child and family team meetings (CPS likes to have those and of the many, many that I attended without my court-appointed attorney present, I was verbally attacked, interrogated and treated like a perpetrator). My caseworker even outright lied in a team meeting in order to make me look like I was "non-compliant" (they like to use that word).

I would not worry about years down the road after grad school right now. Focus on your immediate situation. Inform your lawyer of everything that happened, and why you did not report immediately. Do not trust CPS, do not trust CPS, do not trust CPS. Start now keeping a log of every interaction and communication you have had with any CPS worker. Use email for communication if possible, so you have a record of what the worker has said. Ask for copies of any reports the case worker has made, and check them for errors (the official case report entered into court for my case was FULL of errors and false "facts"). Let your lawyer review everything and do not agree to any service plans without the advice of your lawyer.

I don't mean to scare you, I just wish that I had done so many things differently when CPS first came into my life five years ago. i would have done whatever I had to do to get a lawyer right away. It's never a good idea to deal with CPS without legal counsel from the get go. They do not have the understanding that many people here on the boards have about the complexities of being in an abusive situation with a pd person, and that it's not as simple as just up and leaving. I completely understand your reasons for not sounding the alarm immediately. CPS will not, and they will try to use it against you.

The guidelines for mandated reporting are listed on government websites by state. Many people believe that the report must be made to child services, but that is not true. Reports can also be made to law enforcement. It may help you to look those up and find out the guidelines (especially the time frame) for mandatory reporting in your state, to ease your anxiety over your future situation for when you do become a counselor.

Sending you strength and        Dig,

I continue to pray for you and your S5.

Redeemed



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Dignity&Strength
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 11:03:43 AM »

Hi LNL,
Yes, that’s right, I was suspecting that my husband coached S5 to say the sexual abuse description. A huge reason why, I thought my husband would do that, has to do with a friend we have known for a few years, and her story.

She was a pastors wife, and walked in on her husband and their d5. She was not believed, the d5 recanted, the medical exam came back without conclusive evidence, and SHE LOST all custody of her kids to her husband.

So according to what we know of her story, my husband was aware, it’s possible, for him to gain sole custody if I accuse him of that and the pieces of the investigation are not solid.

The book I mentioned describes in detail, how often our friends story actually happens, and it is common in incest cases.

It’s mind boggling how what happens, but we have seen it, first hand.

But, I didn’t coach S5 to say what he did. S5 started talking to me, when we were alone, driving home from town Tuesday night. Out of the blue. I was wearing my recorder, in case my husband calls, I turn it on quickly. So, when S5 started talking, I turned it on. He was still talking when we pulled in the driveway, we were home alone, so I let S5 continue. When we got into the house, I asked S5 to show me where these things happened. I flipped out my phone, camera set to record video, and captured a video of S5 describing where in the living room, and what his daddy did.

S5’s choice of words concerned me, they were not words I had taught him. He used the word ‘ass’ instead of bottom. His daddy uses more crass versions of words rather than polite. So it seemed possible, with my husband’s word choice being “ass” and my preference that I taught S5 (bottom)  that MAYBE I was being set up.

Monday night, (the night S5 said that daddy did those things) I had a voice recorder hidden in the bathroom my husband uses, just to see if I could catch him telling S5 to be mean to me.

Tuesday night, we were alone, husband gone on a train, and S5 disclosed late that night on the way home from town. It was bedtime when we got home. We had to be up early the next morning for a school thing for S5 and myself. I thought about going right then, to the police station, but I was so worried about what to do, and what was the right choice to keep S5 completely safe forever.

So Wednesday night, while I was out of the hous, I scanned each recording that recorder had, to see if it captured any sound from the living room. It was a long distance, with the laundry and dryer running in between. So the little voice recorder was indiscernible, to verify s5’s words.

I could not seep Wednesday night, because I knew what I had to do on Thursday. I had to mandatory report what S5 said to social services.

Thursday after our homeschool group (it was the first meeting with that group, we couldn’t miss it) I got us some lunch at the drive through and took us to social services.

The investigation and all the pieces evolved from there.

S5 is needing me, I’ll write and explain more when I can.
There is a hearing, protection order, and things to describe.
Dig
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Dignity&Strength
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 11:23:12 AM »

Hi I am Redeemed,
Thank you so much. Yes, I am in the south, and yes CPS is treating me like a criminal as well.
I completely agree, not to trust the case worker. I think it’s a good idea to fill the friends I am staying with in on this concept. ASAP.

I may do that now, while I have a chance, S5 is still asleep.

I’ll write more when I can.
Dig
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2018, 03:50:44 PM »

Dig, thanks for the updates.  Don't beat yourself up over how the last couple of days went down.  A DV psychologist and an advocate both told me when I was fretting over the awkwardness of my exit that you get out however you get out.  It's especially tough when dealing with coercive tactics and a high-functioning abuser.  You're out.  Take a deep breath, listen to the good advice of folks like livednlearned and I Am Redeemed, get your lawyer involved with CPS, and step carefully from there.  Worry about consolidating your current situation -- the only thing about your career that should concern you now is keeping up with your classwork.

What is the plan for the authorities interviewing your son?  That's good that your friends are involved, to prevent any concerns that you are coaching your son.  It seems like the authorities ought to interview him soon, but it's very important for it to be done correctly, by properly trained individuals.  Do such people exist in your locality?  Would they need to be brought in from a larger city?  This is something that your lawyer might be able to investigate for you.

WW
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2018, 12:01:48 AM »

Hi WW,

The forensic interview and medical exam have both been completed, by a specialty children’s abuse team from a well respected child abuse center in town.

They said “they got it” and “S5 did very, very good”.  

I really like the concept of having my lawyer there to speak with child protective services. I have one question about that though... .would that make me seem like I had something to hide, or look guilty of something I haven’t done? I suppose that should be handled with kids gloves... .step carefully.

We are very very blessed to be taken in and made part of the family, with a youngish couple that got married last year. She inherited her family farm, and the pair have been working it nearly by themselves. So S5 has plenty to distract himself with! He gets to ride on the 4 wheeler from the house to the barn with her, and then there’s all the rest! A dairy cow, a thoroughbred horse, a beagle puppy, a cat, young thanksgiving turkeys, chickens and a couple of hogs. And the river! Shallow to sit in and play in the water. It’s a slice of heaven.
The rescue is amazing. We have the upstairs of the farmhouse and the couple has the master bedroom downstairs. They had been waiting for my call, knowing me and this situation well enough to know Id need them one day.

Dig

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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2018, 06:14:44 AM »

I noticed some here have asked for more details.  I understand it may help responses but I wonder whether you ought to be a bit cautious here?  Though we are pretty much anonymous here and you've been shocked by this out-of-left-field curve ball, if someone in your area connects the dots, your local agencies may frown on you discussing potentially sensitive details this much online.  IDK, just a thought to not list too many details, reserving that to the messaging here for your trusted contacts?
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2018, 10:32:33 AM »



I really like the concept of having my lawyer there to speak with child protective services. I have one question about that though... .would that make me seem like I had something to hide, or look guilty of something I haven’t done?

Dig


No. You said CPS has already been treating you like a criminal. Your lawyer's presence will more than likely make them back off of you. You don't need the added stress of trying to defend yourself when you know you have always protected the best interests of your child. This lawyer has already been retained by you to help you facilitate a divorce from a potentially dangerous person, and should be involved in this development. A well-trained lawyer can help you get the case with CPS closed as soon as possible, which is what you want. Their continued presence in your life will only complicate matters. Any further proceedings regarding the abuse allegations, including any charges filed, can (and should) be handled by law enforcement.

CPS will likely try to get you to sign a "service plan" which may include you attending parenting classes, a mental health evaluation, a parenting assessment, and possibly even a class or support group for parents of sexual abuse victims. They will require you to abide by the terms of the protective order (as if you wouldn't already) and will likely tell you that you have to abide by their restrictions on any contact with your son and your husband. What they will not tell you is that if you sign this service plan you have essentially agreed to their continued presence in your life until they decide to close the case. That means that if they require you to do any "assessments"' then you will also be required to follow up with any "recommendations". All of this will have to be done to their satisfaction so they will allow you to keep custody of your child.

If the hearing you mentioned is in family court with CPS, it is absolutely essential that your lawyer attend. Family court is much different from criminal court. There is so much about the proceedings that is unknown to the parent. For instance, I was not told that if I did not refute the claim of CPS that I had neglected and failed to protect my children from witnessing domestic violence at the VERY FIRST hearing, that essentially I had just "admitted" to "guilt" and was therefore subject to any and all "services" and other "action steps" that CPS required of me to get my kids back. Basically, I was at their mercy, and I did not realize that the first hearing was so crucial. I was given a court appointed attorney, who pretty much just guided me through the process of "cooperating" with CPS... .and five years later, after I completed every single thing they ever threw at me, I don't have my kids.

You need your attorney. Get CPS out of the way and let law enforcement handle the abuse allegations and investigation. Likely there were law enforcement personnel that covertly witnessed the forensic interview with your son (they were present when my daughters had their forensic interview, also at a well-respected child abuse advocacy center, only law enforcement never followed up with any questioning of my h, me, or my kids, filed no charges, yet CPS took the ball and ran with it).

Praying for you Dig,

Redeemed
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2018, 12:31:55 PM »

The friends had to sign with social services, to not leave S5 and I alone together, basically. It is protocol having to do with preventive measures, to prevent any conversations that shouldn’t take place until I take their parenting classes.

Wow. I have never heard of that!

It seems hard to do in practice. How in the world could they ensure you would never be left alone with your own child?

What kind of parenting classes are you expected to take?

You mentioned you have been treated like a criminal by CPS. That must be difficult to say the least. Is it because they are accusing you of leaving S5 alone with his dad that one night?

I didn't have to go through anything with CPS so this is a learning curve here for me.

Today was a good day.


How is S5 doing?

Does your DV advocate know what's going on? Maybe that's no longer a concern now that you're no longer living in the marital home?

Does S5 know what's going on?
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2018, 12:38:55 PM »

I Am Redeemed,

I'm so sorry you went through what sounds like h#ll with CPS.

Can you help us understand how CPS complicates things when they stay present in your life?

Their continued presence in your life will only complicate matters.

I know there are members here who had positive experiences when CPS became involved.

Maybe it's different depending on what state you are in? Or based on the specifics of your case?

I was given similar advice about parenting coordinators, to avoid having them involved at all costs. I watered down the agreement to the point it was toothless based on that advice, and almost created a worse scenario for me and my son.

The parenting coordinator was responsible for providing witness testimony about the truth, and changed the judge's mind. Good third-party professionals can be powerful. Terrible ones can ruin our lives.
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2018, 03:14:21 PM »

I Am Redeemed,

I'm so sorry you went through what sounds like h#ll with CPS.

Can you help us understand how CPS complicates things when they stay present in your life?

I know there are members here who had positive experiences when CPS became involved.

Maybe it's different depending on what state you are in? Or based on the specifics of your case?

I was given similar advice about parenting coordinators, to avoid having them involved at all costs. I watered down the agreement to the point it was toothless based on that advice, and almost created a worse scenario for me and my son.

The parenting coordinator was responsible for providing witness testimony about the truth, and changed the judge's mind. Good third-party professionals can be powerful. Terrible ones can ruin our lives.


LnL,

It probably does have some to do with the specifics of the case and the area you live in. I have said before, I cannot speak for all CPS agencies as I have only my own experience to personally draw upon. I live in a mostly rural Southern area, as does Dig. However, websites like fightcps.com have opened my eyes up to the fact that there is great abuse of power as well as outright corruption in many CPS agencies across the country.

It is a very long story and I do not intend to totally play the victim, as I made several decisions that contributed to the way things turned out. The basic facts without all the complex, drawn-out details are this: In Feb 2013, my children were removed from my custody. CPS had come out to investigate the report someone made about domestic violence in my home, and bruises on the children (there were none.) I was subjected to a drug test and passed. After an eight-hour long meeting where I had no legal counsel and no one on "my side", in which I was interrogated like a perpetrator, the CPS investigator left the room, came back and informed me that they had made the decision to remove my kids from my custody because I was violating a no-contact order between uBPDh and me. This was not true. A year prior, he was arrested for a dv incident in our home and at that time a no-contct order was mandatorily placed between us. When he pled guilty, it was dropped. There was no existent order, and I was not violating any such order. However, my children (four of them at the time, D5, D3, S1, and S6weeks) were taken from me. At the court hearing, I was given a court-appointed attorney. I was never given the chance to refute the "reason" given to me for my children coming into custody, i.e., the non-existent no-contact order. They had my kids, they knew that there was domestic violence going on, and instead of offering me an alternative solution to solve the issues I had with leaving (no car, no job, nowhere to stay, no money, just had given birth to a baby) they kept my kids in custody and gave me a "service plan" to complete (on my own, with no assistance) to get custody back of my kids. Mental health evaluation, parenting classes, alcohol and drug assessment, tried to make me go to rehab (despite clean drug screens) and later, tried to make me do outpatient drug treatment (again with all negative drug screens, including two hair follicle tests.)

Long story short, we completed the first service plan and were on the tail end of having custody restored. CPS then insisted I enroll my daughters in trauma counseling. I wanted to go to my mental health center, but they made a "referral" to the local child advocacy center for child trauma, physical and sexual abuse. At the first appointment I was given an option to sign a release of information to the CPS investigator. I declined, which was my right, because the judge had just granted me back legal custody. Two days later I began to get harassing phone calls from CPS, citing "new allegations of abuse had been made" and was told to bring my children to a forensic interview. I didn't even know what that was. I contacted my court-appointed lawyer, she said go to it, so I did. ON THE WAY to the forensic interview my kids told me that CPS had interviewed them at school, just hours prior to the scheduled forensic. They said she had asked them about sexual abuse and they had told her what she wanted to hear because they were afraid of being taken away again. I tried calling my lawyer, did not get through. The interview was scheduled, and so I went and told my kids to just tell the truth. Law enforcement witnessed the interview, but never questioned me or my husband. They never filed any charges. Yet CPS took my kids into custody again. They never produced the transcript of the forensic interview where my kid(s) (they flip-flopped on whether it was one or both) supposedly disclosed the alleged abuse. They never specifically said what abuse was supposed to have occurred. They gave the reason for taking my kids from me this time as the fact that they asked my daughter if she told me what she told the CPS investigator, she said yes, and they asked her what I did about it and she said "nothing." Now, the first I had heard anything about what she said to the investigator was ON THE WAY to the forensic. Yet, my kids were taken and I was never given the chance to clear this up. It was back to jumping the hoops, only this time the caseworker purposely dragged her feet in laying out the specific action steps for me to do. She outright lied in one of the team meetings, and she portrayed me as a mother in denial of her husband's abuse of the children. Even though no evidence of any abuse ever surfaced. No charges ever filed, no law enforcement investigation ever took place. When CPS was questioned about why no charges were ever brought, they said it was because law enforcement did not know what county it took place in, and did not know who would have jurisdiction.

Indeed. So two well-respected sheriffs in two different counties just threw up their hands and decided it was impossible to investigate a report of sexual abuse. Give me a  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) break.

My children attended counseling for over a year and during that time no evidence of sexual abuse came up. The counselor recommended that they return to the parents. CPS ignored this and told me they were pursuing termination of my rights. They couldn't technically do this, because I had been actively working to complete the service plan. That's when they started lying, withholding recommendations from me, and sending us in circles until they ran out of things to have us do- and then they started trying to make us start over and take the classes again.

It went on so long, eventually the judge granted my sister legal guardianship.

I'm sorry to hijack your thread, Dig. I just wanted to explain why I do not trust CPS. They treated me like a criminal for being in a r/s with a person who was an abuser. I didn't know about BPD then, though I knew some kind of mental illness was present. And now, I have many people who believe that my h is a sexual abuser and that I am in denial about it.

Incidentally, CPS tried to make my h go to sexual offender counseling without an assessment. The counselor wrote a letter stating that he did not know what he was supposed to be treating him for, and that this type of counseling was for sex offenders on probation and was only recommended by completing a psycho-sexual assessment (which is very hard to do, without criminal charges, or a court order, as we spent a year finding all this out and finally the judge did give him the court order. Assessment results: he does not fit the criteria for a sexual abuser, he is not a threat to the children with regards to sexual abuse or inappropriate contact/behavior, does not need to be on sex offender list, and needs no psycho-sexual counseling).

The counselor actually said that with no criminal charges, he did not understand why we weren't getting our kids back.

And they are still not home. In fact, I have been on supervised visitation for the last four years with them.

Yet I have had full uninterrupted custody of s2 since his birth. So apparently I am a fit mother for him, but deserved to lose my rights to my others, according to CPS.

So there is my horror story. I am sorry this was so long.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 03:35:35 PM »

Another example of why I have not found CPS to be helpful:

Last fall, when my h was again using drugs and exhibiting increasingly violent and psychotic behavior, I made the desperate decision to leave for my safety and the safety of s2. I did not have time to make a safety plan, I simply jumped out of the van when he was dropping me off at work after he had raged at me, threatened me the whole 45 min drive and almost run the van off the road. He grabbed s2's car seat and refused to let me take him. I jumped out and called the police as he drove off with s2. The police said they could do nothing but a welfare check until I got back to the county we lived in to make a dv report. I called CPS out of desperation. They did not even go to investigate until two days later, by then the police had arrested uBPDh and returned s2 to me. I had already made plans to go fill out a protective order, but CPS demanded that I do it. They threatened to take s2 if I did not. They subjected me to two more drug tests, while I was at work, and they demanded to do a home study where I was staying with a friend. The caseworker showed up unannounced while I was not home and intimidated my roommate into letting her in. She also came up to my place of employment and tried to threaten the employees into giving her my schedule because she said I was "avoiding her'', when really I was babysitting and had four kids under three years old and just had not had time to check my phone. CPS did absolutely nothing to protect my child when his dad took off with him after assaulting me and acting totally psycho, and even though I made the report, they treated me like I was under investigation (again) and bullied me to do what they wanted me to do to "protect my child". For the next two months they created unwanted and unnecessary stress in my life.

So there is another reason why I have not found calling CPS to be of any benefit whatsoever.

Redeemed
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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2018, 12:40:06 AM »

Hi Forever dad,
I completely see your point and agree. There have been a few times  I felt I shouldn’t answer some questions. This is not something for public. So, those who have been most helpful here, you’re saying I  can private message here instead of posting on the boards? I noticed the number of people online as users and guests.

Dig
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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2018, 01:06:48 PM »

The family law board is one of the boards not visible to search engines. You mentioned your H is not very computer literate, which makes it even less likely he will stumble across the site.

I would not recommend PM'ing members directly especially during a crisis. It makes you more susceptible to inflammatory advice without benefit of collective experience and it goes against the purpose of having a public board for sharing and learning from one another.

How are you doing, D&S?

How is S5 doing?

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« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2018, 10:11:38 PM »

Hi LNL,
I am ok. I am worried. What is happening is, S5 is acting out. He is being rude and we are house guests. So, I know this is a normal response to trauma, but I am anxious that the couple may say he is too much to handle, or taking us in as long as CPS wants them tonis too much. If so, S5 should go into foster care and be in the custody of the state. I would have to live at the women’s shelter alone. That scenario seems possible and frightening. And S5 doesn’t seem to get it. He’s kicking their puppy, talking back, yet sometimes very sweet.

I realize I am being anxious for something that hasn’t happened about that, but it looks over me. Every cross word out of S5, every misbehavior, it is putting me on eggshells. Again.

S5... .he is sometimes very sweet, happy. But also demanding, defiant, and rude. Disobedient.
But, he has just been exposed to severe trauma. This is his normal.

So the couple wants me to be cold and short with S5, like a “normal”
Kid. It’s stressing  them out a little, for me to give S5 grace, speak to him with kindness, and to try to root out why he is acting out. Spanking, time out, that’s what they are expecting.

It takes me longer to reason and do discipline this way, with kindness, and I can see it’s deiging them nuts. A little. But they are gracious. S5 will get better.

S5 is all the emotions. Happy, sad, mad.,,I suppose he’ll do the stages of grief.He seems to be fishing for confirmation of undonditional love, from me and the  couoke here.!

I have arranged professional hepmfor him, starting next week.
He is a strong kid, and I love him.

Dig
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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2018, 04:29:28 AM »

I am wondering what the trial in family court will look like and what will happen on Thursday? (Please forgive the typos, 4:40 am and a cell phone is what’s causing that, I’m sorry!)

There is an emergency pfa (protection from abuse in place). I have not filed for divorce yet, but I am working on filling out the paperwork for the attorney.

The legal assistant said Ineould be asked questions, and to answer if my attorney did not object. She said to keep my eyes on my attorney. Not to make eye contact with him.

I am almost certain, the other side will try to take the perspective, that s5’s disclosure didn’t happen that I made it up, because I am hurt or vindictive that my husband wanted to separate and divorce before I finish my degree. With that in mind, what kind of questions should I expect?

He may have recorded the last conversation we had, that morning, the same day I had to take S5 in to mandatory report. That conversation is basically him saying he wants to separate, and my begging him not to yet. I knew I had to try to prevent him from getting a quick attorney appointment or filing that morning while S5 and I were at homeschool group. (It was the first day of group and we shouldn’t miss it).

So, I said a lot of things in that conversation that I did not mean at all. My end of the converwas designed to buy me time that day.

I’m trying to think of what the opposing attorney will ask me.

Also, what kinds of things will be decided at the trial? I wish, it were possible to have him removed from the home, so S5 and I can have a place to live. But, CPS says that I am not allowed to be alone with S5 and it may be 4 to 6 months until I am allowed to do that. That’s just crazy I hard to ask that if my sweet friends.

I need to be allowed to go back home to my parents. S5 has doctors appointments in the fall there, crucial ones. The assistant said that would be a big deal. Almost impossible.

I’m so tired. And at the mercy of the court and cps it seems. It is horrific to live through seeing your child be given a rape kit style medical exam. Emotionally, I have no idea how I’m not falling apart, but I’m doing what I have to I guess. One foot in front of the other.

S5 is amazingly resilient. But I can tell, this really did happen to him. He is telling the truth.

Dig
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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2018, 06:44:44 AM »

Hi Dig,

I wanted to respond about your son acting out.

I'm on these boards because my SO has an uBPDxw, but I come from a dysfunctional co-dependent marriage to an alcoholic.  For years I thought I was protecting my son from things going on in the marriage... .keeping my ex's drunken rages directed at me for example.  I realize now that my son's role in our family dynamic was to stay under the (his dad's ) radar.

When I left my marriage my son came with me (saw dad every other weekend).  Once we moved out, he started to show a lot of anxiety, with physical symptoms (stomach issues) that hadn't be en there before.  But what I came to realize was he finally felt safe enough (away from his dad) to express and show his feelings. What I thought was him being okay during the marriage was actually him stuffing alot of feelings. So what I'm getting at is besides going through the trauma it's self, it may also be that he feels safe (away from his dad) to show his feelings.  He just like you he has been living with a lot of tension. 

Certainly don't validate bad behavior, but I would work to validate his feelings.  Your son is going to do what he is going to do just be there for him... .which it sounds like you are    I know everything that is going on is super scary, I don't pretend to know how to negotiate something like this.  But what I do know is you will get through it and so will your son.

Hang in there,
Panda39
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2018, 07:10:38 AM »

Oh thank you, Panda.
Validate the feelings but not the behavior. That’s excellent. I can’t share that too with the couple that is having me.
Thanks you for your sweet note. I am living the “law and order svu” tv show in real life it seems.

And thank you, LNL, for filling me in on the safety of this board. I feel better, and see your point. That makes good sense.

I am thinking “big picture” ahead... .
My husband will likely lose his job, be placed on the sex offender registry, etc,... .
The forensic interviewer said s5’s interview was solid. Her words were “he did well, very very good”. I am reading into that, my husband is done for. High chance of conviction.

That sends my mind into finances and logistics... .
But first, to get through the family court protection order hearing. Ugh... .

Living it in real life is nothing like watching it on tv... .I am amazed I can still breathe, yet there is air. As long as there’s air to breathe, I’ll be ok.

Dig

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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2018, 08:55:13 AM »

I can tell, this really did happen to him. He is telling the truth.

When my son was 5, I noticed he was not swimming underwater like the rest of his friends, who had all started swimming at the same time. He was in camp all summer, lots of pool time with swim instructors, but there was nothing but dog paddling when he was with me. I would spend weekends with him at the pool, and tried to teach him but he was scared to put his head under the water. It was real fear.

So I hired a swim instructor who worked with him one-on-one. After one lesson he said, "S5 is a fish."

That little stinker had been snowing me! I spent all summer focused on helping S5 learn how to swim, and it turns out he could swim underwater all along. I asked camp counselors and they seem puzzled -- yes, S5 was a little fish, a good swimmer.

At the time, I thought it was because S5 wanted the special attention from me, that if I knew he could swim I would not spend so much time teaching him to swim. Now that he is grown up (17), he admits he didn't want me to know because he thought I would put him on the swim team. 

Even as close as I was to my son, I did not know the truth.

You cannot say you know what is true or not with your son because he is not you.

And I would not read anything into the forensic interviewer's words -- they are platitudes.

I wouldn't make assumptions that your husband is done for because the investigation has only started.

Big deep breath.

About the couple, I'm confused. Are they gracious or driven nuts? S5 kicked their puppy, is that something happening repeatedly?
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2018, 09:59:38 AM »

Oops, typo in my last post... .can. Not can’t... .can share!
And Idid, this morning.

They are both gracious and driven nuts. They believe in toughen up kind of normal parenting. Be responsible, suck it up, deal with it.

Their one year anniversary is in October... they are young in their ‘marriagr forming’ stage of family development.

So, this positive parenting, validating feelings style of parenting... .this might be the first time they’ve ever seen it in action.

It’s a learning curve for them.

They are both, LNL.

And S5 needs to learn how to. It be afraid of the puppy. Not to squeal and  holler when the puppy wants to jump and lick.
It’s a learning curve for everyone.

Dig
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2018, 10:03:25 AM »

He may have recorded the last conversation we had, that morning, the same day I had to take S5 in to mandatory report. That conversation is basically him saying he wants to separate, and my begging him not to yet. I knew I had to try to prevent him from getting a quick attorney appointment or filing that morning while S5 and I were at homeschool group. (It was the first day of group and we shouldn’t miss it).

IF it comes up, you can explain it, that you had a pending activity and were simply trying to calm things until a better time.  One conversation does not make a pattern or overall theme.  What if you are asked in court, "Do you want him back?"  What would you say?  I was asked that by my ex's lawyer in my first testimony.  I think he asked hoping I'd say Yes and then he could turn to the judge and remark, "See?  He wants her back under his control!"  Instead, I answered, "No, not the way she is."  He moved on to a different question.

To a certain extent you are catastrophizing.  Yes a big word but not everything is "The sky is falling!" as Chicken Little would feel.  Yes, it's rough right now, but in a few weeks much of this will be over.  Hopefully a lots of your fears will have never seen the light of day.  Your goal now is to strategize, ponder what to do and what to say and how to say it that will help you reach your goals homewise, workwise, familywise, etc.

Although right now the agencies have you on 'lockdown' with lots of rules, much of what they've done is standard officialdom's detailed checklist to avoid things getting worse.  For all you know, this next hearing will have updated reports and recommendations that will loosen the rigid rules you are stuck with currently. So, one of your goals now is to focus on how you can work toward that outcome.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2018, 01:19:13 AM »

Dig,

What was your takeaway from LnL's story about swimming lessons?

WW
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