I have tried to stand on my own, but I can’t anymore.

[Radcliff]

My MOSAIC score was 7. I don’t know what to think about that, but I feel nauseous.

It can be pretty upsetting to go through that process and be told that there are things about the situation that aren't safe.  We knew it already, but it can still be upsetting.  As you went through the questions, did you learn anything, or did anything surprise you?

Starting to protect your boundaries around friendships and time to yourself sounds like a great place to start.  What is your plan for next steps there?

RC

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Seashore,

I was so pleased to read the tone of your update a few posts back where you speak of making yourself whole again.  That's a very uplifting thing to hear  

You sound like you are putting your efforts where they best serve you and are doing good work with this T, despite the rocky start.  I'm glad that she has come around to taking your lead.  I'm also glad that you have her to talk to about the physical aspect of your r/s.  Having someone to share that with is so important.  It is never good for us to struggle and suffer alone in silence with this type of treatment.  Thank you for opening up about this difficult and highly personal topic.  I feel for you.     

The MOSAIC test was shocking for me, as I took this at a time when I believed that past issues were no longer a concern yet it reminded me that I clearly still needed to be vigilant and safeguard myself.  My advice is to think of those intense bodily sensations as an indicator of your feelings guiding you towards a shift.  You are most certainly on the right track regards your plan to make changes and I am hopeful that you will work with your T on this and also bring any 'detail working out' here too.  

Have you read this information about Extinction Bursts?  It is a good overview and may offer some insights that prove helpful as you consider what you might want to have in place when you approach asserting these new boundaries.  I'm sorry if I missed this, but did you contact a local DV agency for additional support as well as your T?

Rooting for you.  

Love and light x

[Seashore]

I have read about the extinction bursts, and that’s why I am really pretty petrified about going through with my plan. It’s why I want to start small, with the things that I think my H will be the least threatened by. Having time alone for example, is something that I can start really really small with, as in, 1 hour in the garage (detached from our house) working on the loft. I’ll be close by, but not physically present. I’ve already started doing this, here and there running out there for 10 or 20 min, and leaving my phone in the house so he can’t call me. It’s been ok, he lets the kids “find their mom” (supposedly on their own) but I just “return” them to dad, without saying much, and going back to what I was doing. He’s been fine a few times after, a few times he’s been sarcastic and clearly ticked that I “took advantage of him.” Either way, I don’t make a big deal about it.

Once I can get him on board with that, I will introduce the friends aspect. That’ll be harder, but hopefully by then, as a result of the confidence and peace I’ll get from alone/free time, I’ll be in a better place mentally/emotionally to take on the challenge.  He dislikes most of my friends. He especially has an issue with one of my friends being a guy. This is exacerbated by the fact that he’s going thru a divorce. He is extremely paranoid, and jealous, so this has potential to be explosive. I probably won’t pick this friend during boundary establishment in combination with alone time. I’ll have to choose “safer” friends for sure. But, on its own, this will be a good test-if I can keep this friendship alive while my friend goes through the toughest time of his life, without getting divorced myself, it will be a real accomplishment. I’ve actually been here before, with a different friend, also a guy, and it went really really badly. Needless to say, I had to chose my friend or my family/marriage, and I chose H. It’s still a very sore subject.

To answer your question about the DV hotline... .yes, I did call. I didn’t find the person on the other end of the line to be very warm, supportive, or helpful. In fact, she seemed annoyed, robotic, and distant. I really thought it would have gone differently. Why does everyone think I want a f’ing restraining order! Gosh, I’m not an expert and even I know those aren’t really the answer to everything at best and at worst can lead to certain death. Sheesh.

Speaking of DV... .my S8 is really having a hard time right now. He’s like a miniH. It’s not good. Very abusive. Hits, punches, and chokes his brother S6 constantly. I told him last night that if I see him choking S6, or any other physical abuse, I will call the cops on him. He told me he’ll kill me. He was completely calm and sincere. It was really really scary. H wasn’t home. When I told him about it he seemed very disturbed... .that I’d call the cops on an 8 year old. I told him I would bc it’s my job to protect S6, even if it’s from S8. He said I’ll get in trouble with the cops for wasting their time with nonsense. I said it’s not nonsense, it’s domestic violence and its abuse. He outright laughed at that, said “abuse? It’s boy stuff.” I could tell that he strongly disagrees with my plan, but I WILL follow through if S8 continues to physically bully his brother, or us. I’m absolutely certain this will cause him to blow up. It will be a violation of the “circle of trust” which is more like the “circle of secrets” and also a big paranoia trigger-he’s convinced the government/police are “out to get us.” So, I have to choose between my family’s safety and well-being and his, with either choice being certain to cause me pain and suffering. I wish I had some go go gadget legs to stretch myself right up and over the rock that keeps me up against a hard place.

[Radcliff]

Your plan with alone time and then friends sounds great.  Keep us posted.  The situation with your S8 is concerning.  I am so sorry that you had to hear him threaten to kill you.  As his mom, you're focused on raising a responsible, caring young man, and that had to have been terribly difficult to hear.  It's good that you want to address his violent behavior.  It sounds like threatening to call the police increased the conflict level both with your son and your husband.  You may well want outside help, but a therapist is much more likely to be helpful.  Have you discussed the issue with your therapist?

Another great resource for parenting is the book, Transforming the Difficult Child:  The Nurtured Heart Approach, by Howard Glasser.  I really feel that it would help you.  One of the things that he talks about is strengthening the bond between parent and child as a foundation step before working on discipline, showing them that they can get your attention without misbehaving.

I recently took a parenting class called STEP (Systematic Training for Effective Parenting).  If you search for it on the Internet, you may find a nonprofit in your area teaching the curriculum.  It was a 14 hour class, one night a week.  I was a little skeptical, but it worked out well, and I'd recommend it.  One of the things they said is that kids misbehave for one of four reasons:  1.  To feel in control, 2. For attention, 3. For revenge, and 4.  Due to a feeling of incompetence.  Do you have a sense for which of the reasons was driving your son's behavior?

RC

[Seashore]

Calling the police when S8 is really hurting S6, like choking him (not pretending, but an actual grip on his throat) is what his therapist told me to do. With S8, it all about control. Always. He has to be in charge. He already gets lots of attention. We tried approaching it that way first, by ignoring some of the misbehavior and focusing ONLY on positive behaviors, plus an extra helping of one on one time. It wasn’t enough. He got even more abusive towards S6 and S14, less cooperative about chores, more defiance, and more resentment from the other kids (special treatment gets noticed). He now feels like he’s equal with us, doesn’t do anything we ask, ignores consequences... .hence the therapist advising to seek help when he’s out of control and let him answer to an outside authority.  We live in a small town, so our police force is more community orientated-I think they would probably try to help us. I got assistance from the police when S14 was about 10, and was into stealing. He always stole from us, not stores, but we couldn’t get him to stop. We wanted it to nip it before it did escalate to stealing at the market or whatever (it was just a matter of time) so I spoke to the police about it one day, and the officer that works in the school told me to call him next time something went missing. We did, and he came, and he brought S14 out to the police car and spoke to him for a while. S14 looked terrified, and surprised. He never stole anything ever again. I’m not saying I think it’ll go quite as smoothly this time with S8-they are totally different kids and the situation is quite different-but, I think at this point it can’t hurt. Nothing else is working, and he might really hurt S6.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the additional detail.  I'm sorry you're having to deal with such a tough problem.  One thing to consider is to talk to that school officer if he or she is still around, or talk to someone at the police station to get their recommendations.  They'll appreciate that you're reaching out before a problem occurs, and you'll learn what they're reaction would be if you call them, rather than it being a surprise.  I know it may not sound like a book would help much, but that Glasser book is worth checking out. 

Do you have any opportunities to assert alone time or friend time in the next few days?

RC