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Author Topic: Mom w/ BPD Just Moved Closer and I'm Struggling With Boundaries  (Read 539 times)
Songbird88

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« on: November 07, 2018, 11:21:52 AM »

I'll try to keep this as to-the-point as possible as it's a pretty complicated situation.
My mother's house burned down 9 months ago, and I spent weeks trying to find her a  new place to live. Though she still denies it, it happened because she fell asleep with a cigarette in her hand (something I begged her to stop doing). She cannot take an ounce of responsibility for her actions... .nothing is ever her fault, and she is always the victim. And she has very poor judgment a lot of the time — she acts like a defiant teenager.

She had been living in an assisted living facility just while I found a more permanent situation for her. She is only 59, though, and arguably too young for that. However, she has a traumatic brain injury from a car accident years back, and is also on a slew of different medications that I don't believe are supposed to be mixed. She is also, as I am only just starting to realize that she is an addict (she's been on a heavy dose of morphine for 20 years since the car accident).

After months of her trying to convince me that the right thing was for her to move closer to me, I gave in. It had been causing me a lot of stress and guilt that she was three and a half hours away, and I was not able to be more helpful or see her more. I am an only child, she is a single parent, and we have no other family in New England. I figured it made sense for her to leave nearer in case something happened. But as her moving date drew closer, I became more and more terrified of how my life would change.

She has only been here one week, and it has been a complete and utter nightmare. I did not realize just how much I had used the distance as a way to maintain boundaries. Now that she lives 30 minutes away, I am faced with all kinds of challenges. Before, I could say "No I can't come down this weekend, the train is too expensive" or whatever. But now I don't have those excuses. And her expectations for seeing me have completely transformed. I only saw her once every 6-8 weeks or so before. In her first five days here, I saw her three times. Now, I know she just moved, so I keep telling myself that she's going to need a little more help in the beginning and it will get better. She doesn't know anyone here, she feels very lonely, she doesn't know her way around the town, etc. But I'm SO frustrated that it NEVER feels like enough. Over the past week she has sobbed that I don't give a f*ck about her, that I haven't had dinner with her yet (I have, but with my boyfriend too, which I think she secretly resented), that I wish she didn't live here and that I don't even want to be around her. It is exhausting. And TBH, it makes me dread the future. I can tell that she really resents the fact that I am in a serious relationship and spend a lot of time around my boyfriend, and that his very healthy/loving family has welcomed me in. But I am 30 years old, work a full time job, have my own life, am in talks about getting engaged, and she doesn't seem to understand that all of that doesn't mean I am somehow abandoning her. When I left her new place on Sunday, she broke down and started her typical manipulative tactics — crying and saying "So I guess I won't see you for dinner, then" after I spent hours unpacking stuff for her and organizing her new condo (which I spent an immense amount of time trying to find for her). Part of me feels angry when she does that because I know deep down that I am doing plenty to help her, and part of me feels sad for her and terrible that I'm leaving her.

When I started my new job, I set a boundary in telling her that I could no longer answer her calls at work. It was affecting my productivity (and my sanity) when she would call 10 times in a row and leave 4 minute voicemails, and then I would call her back in the middle of work just to get her to stop. I started putting my phone on airplane mode and refusing to answer between the hours of 10 AM and 6 PM, and while she still calls occasionally, I don't feel as bad when I don't answer because I set the expectation that I would be busy.

I want SO BADLY to start setting some boundaries around how often I'll be able to see her, but I don't know where to start. My best friend suggested that I set a specific night to visit at a certain frequency (say, every other Sunday night) so that I don't have to keep having these difficult convos where she guilt trips me. But I can't even figure out or discern how often I want to see her, because when I think about it, all I think about is what I think SHE wants from me. Does anyone have any recommendations for how to navigate this boundary setting? I'm so tired of her making me feel like I'm neglecting her when I'm doing the best I can.

Thanks, everyone. SO grateful to have found this board! <3
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Harri
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 12:10:32 PM »

Hi.

Yeah, I can understand why boundaries are such a priority right now.  The loss of your physical boundary (distance) has definitely changed things.  We can help you with setting boundaries and saying No so I am glad you came here.

Boundaries work best and feel more natural when we base them on our personal values.  We have an article here that describes this process Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits and here is a thread that gives examples of personal value based boundaries Boundaries - examples

Another thing that will help is to begin to recognize/tell yourself that your mother has a right to her own feelings without you also taking them on.  Think of is as separating yourself emotionally from your mom.  Just because she feels like you are abandoning her does not mean you actually are.  Since you can't change how she feels or what she chooses to believe, all you can do is choose how you respond to this.  There really is nothing you can do.  Even if you had dinner with her 3 times a week, she would probably complain that you abandon her because of the other 4 days you do not see her.  I know it is hard to do this but accept that she is who she is and will have her own feelings and thoughts and beliefs but they do not have to be yours nor do they define who you are.

Make sense?  If you read the articles and have any questions go ahead and ask.  Like I said, we can help you.
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Songbird88

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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 12:13:53 PM »

Thanks so much, Harri! Super helpful. And you're right. I sometimes stay on the phone with her for hours because I feel badly getting off even though I have a lot to do. But I realized the other day that whether I talk to her for a sensible 20 minutes or 2 hours, she still makes a fuss when I finally say I have to go. It truly is never enough, and I have to start taking care of myself.

I like what you said about allowing her to feel the things she does without taking them on. Going to be working on that... .it's really hard because I often feel responsible for how she feels — like it's my job to "fix" it. I've felt like that my whole life, since it was just the two of us when I was growing up and she was struggling with depression, anxiety, financial problems, physical injuries from the car accident, etc.

Appreciate all your wise input so much!
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Harri
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 12:23:58 PM »

Excerpt
I like what you said about allowing her to feel the things she does without taking them on.
Oh, you said this very well and with far fewer words than I did!  haha  Yes, this.  It takes time.  We are trying to break a life time of conditioned responses when we set limits, say no, etc.

Excerpt
it's really hard because I often feel responsible for how she feels — like it's my job to "fix" it. I've felt like that my whole life, since it was just the two of us when I was growing up and she was struggling with depression, anxiety, financial problems, physical injuries from the car accident, etc.
It sounds like it was your job and responsibility to do all these things when you were a kid.  Things that never should have been though. 

Feelings just are.  We do not need to act on them nor do they define us.  So if you feel guilty saying mom I have to go when you are on the phone, just recognize the guilt without judging it.  Say yep, I see you guilt... .it will go away.  Over time of course.  Breaking our conditioning is a difficult task that takes time but it is worth it.

 
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 07:25:04 PM »

Welcome, Songbird88Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

So glad you've joined us! I really like the things Harri shared with you-lots of good wisdom there.   

I certainly can understand how hard it is to not want to fix everything. Learning it from my uBPDm had me trained really very well, and I still want to help everyone just like I did my mom. It takes time and little steps to allow yourself the option of choosing to help or not to help. There is no obligation really, only that which we have learned.

Have you had a chance to read any of our Survivors Guide?  You may be able to relate to some of the points in it. When you have a chance, let us know where you think you are in the steps.

 
Wools
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Songbird88

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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 11:53:25 PM »

Hi  @WoolSpinner2000 — thanks so much for weighing in! I haven't read the Survivors Guide(s), no... .would they be under "Tools"? Would love to check them out, I did read about Listening With Empathy and Invalidating.
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Turkish
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 12:26:11 AM »

Survivor's Guide is linked in the Suggested Reading at the top of the board. 

Survivor to Thriver Manual
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 03:49:13 AM »

Its the  emotional blackmail.  The stuff about FOG is fantastic
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Songbird88

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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 07:51:16 PM »

Thanks @Turkish & @Woolspinner2000 — The Survivors Guide has been immensely helpful (still reading). I would say I'm definitely in Stage 2 (Mourning) right now. Particularly as I started therapy four months ago, I've been making a lot of connections between things I struggle with right now in my relationship and life in general to things that happened in my childhood being an only child with BPD mom.

 @yamada — what is emotional blackmail and FOG?

I especially related to the bits about how emotional abuse can manifest — low self-esteem, fear of rejection, constant approval-seeking, self-criticism,
indecisiveness. ALL of that sounds dead on for me.
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Harri
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2018, 08:59:53 PM »

FOG stands for fear obligation and guilt.

You can read about it here:  Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2018, 11:01:52 AM »

Good job, Songbird88! 

The reading, understanding, processing... .it is all so worthwhile. Take your time to absorb. There is so much information, but hopefully you can feel stronger about yourself, or at least kinder because you see that where you are is a normal reaction from the trauma of your childhood. Kindness is such a difficult task to implement for those of us with a BPD parent. Sighs... .I'm still there too, right with you!

 
Wools
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2018, 01:49:54 PM »

You're all amazing, thank you again for your helpful guidance!

The FOG reading was probably the most important I've read so far... .and remarkably, I was even able to implement it this morning. When I woke up to a long series of texts from my mom demanding that I make a ton of phone calls for her that she could easily make (one to her paincare doctor who is refusing to fill a prescription early for a very good reason), I reacted differently than I normally would have. Normally, I would have either begrudgingly made all those phone calls for her to make her happy with me and then secretly resented it because it took me away from work (and because it's just inappropriate for me to do that). I was feeling frustrated that she expects me to do so many things for her on a regular basis as if I'm her personal assistant, and then makes me feel like I'm a bad/ungrateful daughter when I don't. But I realized that when I have refused to do them in the past, I've immediately gotten defensive. I brought emotion into my response because of the guilt.

So this morning, I allowed myself some time and space to consider whether her requests were reasonable. And when I realized they definitely weren't, I simply said, "I'm sorry I don't have time to make those calls today. I'll be in touch when I get out of work, look forward to seeing you tomorrow!" And to my amazement, she just responded "OK." I had braced myself for something SO much worse. I know there will be times where she will lash out in response, but I learned that taking some time to really consider her demand and weigh it against my abilities/needs allowed me to set a boundary. My therapist keeps using the phrase "detach with love" when talking about my mom and this felt like a small win today.
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Harri
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 08:32:35 PM »

 

That is a great thing you did this morning!  A huge thing even!  You are right that sometimes you may get some push back or she may act out but that is okay.  It will happen when you change the way you interact with her and use boundaries.

Have you seen this thread started by JNChellGiving ourselves pause  He too is learning to step back and take some time to think before acting.  He talks about how a lot of us on this board are reactive.  I can totally relate to that as I would often act out of habit and like you, feel resentment after.

 
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Songbird88

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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2018, 02:32:50 PM »

Thank you so much, @Harri! That post about "giving ourselves pause" was super insightful and helpful, and definitely relatable for me. I'm definitely getting better at allowing myself some time to assess a situation before reacting, which seems to be helping to prevent things from escalating quickly.

My biggest challenge right now is evaluating what's "normal." My mom makes many demands on me every week and I honestly can't seem to figure out when to say no. I got used to doing everything she asked of me to keep her from getting angry and receive praise. Now, I'm trying to define a "new normal," which means figuring out what's reasonable/realistic/appropriate. Like today, she begged me to call one of her doctors to get her medical records because she's trying to find a new pain care specialist in MA. Part of me feels like this might not take a lot of time, and I could use my lunch break to accomplish it, but part of me feels resentful that I have to use my one break on a busy day to do that when she has no job. Last weekend she called me 12 times in a row while I was at an event and texted me furiously demanding that I order groceries for her on Instacart, even though I told her I would do it for her later. While my mom is the least tech-savvy person on the planet, my boyfriend pointed out that she has done this for herself on her Instacart app in the past. His theory is that she could have done it for herself, but having me do it for her makes her feel loved — so she used it as a test to see if I would do it.

Basically, every time she asks something of me, I fear that if I do it, I'm perpetuating the assumption that I will come to the rescue any time she wants me to do something for her. Bottom line: setting boundaries is HARD! Harder than I thought.
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2018, 03:39:13 PM »

hello again   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I'm glad the thread helped you even if only to se you are not alone.  While the details of our lives may be different there are a lot of similarities. 

What's normal is the question isn't it?  I still don't know what normal is but I am learning what is normal and okay for me. 

I think your BF is on to something with his theory.  One of the things that drives the behaviors of someone with BPD is real or imagined fear of abandonment.  I do think that having her take care of things she can do is the right way to go.    

The change will be hard for the both of you.  For her, she will be fighting her fear plus her expectations.  For you, you will be fighting decades of conditioned behavior and your own internal pull to keep her stable and happy.  That is a whole lot of turmoil for the both of you.

Can you think of anything you can say to your mom that may soothe her fears while setting keeping your boundary (of not stepping in and care taking where it is not necessary)? 

You said "even though I told her I would do it for her later." which is excellent.  I wonder what else you might say/do next time she keeps calling you.  I don't know either of you so it is hard for me to guess.  She may not accept what you come up with at least not right away, but over time she may decrease her behavior (and over time you will get more practice and become more comfortable with it all).

Boundaries are tricky... .until you get them. 
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2018, 07:26:56 PM »

Songbird88,

I just want to encourage you that you are doing the right things; you are making progress!   It definitely is a challenge to set boundaries, and they don't take place overnight. Keep reading and moving forward and you will see the gradual changes. Little by little they add up to significant change in how you relate to others.

 
Wools
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2018, 02:49:49 PM »

Thanks,  @Harry &  @Woolspinner2000!   

It's an ongoing learning process. Last night she called me and again begged me to call all of her doctors, who have been slow to get back to her about transferring her prescriptions to MA. I suspect that there's good reason for their hesitance (she's on some heavy meds, and some of them I don't think are supposed to be prescribed long-term or in combo). She seems to think that me calling these people will help, that they'll be more likely to do something if a family member is advocating for her. Maybe there's truth to that, but at the same time, this trend has become a bit overwhelming over the last year. Any time she has a problem — whether it's with an ex boyfriend, a family member, her lawyer, a police officer, ANYONE — she requests that I call on her behalf to defend her, and I'm tired of it. I'm conflicted because I do feel for her in that her doctors have been ignoring her calls, but I'm afraid if I call them I'll continue supporting this expectation that I'm always going to swoop in and save the day by making phone calls for her, and I don't really believe that's effective or appropriate (unless it's an emergency, of course).

Anyway, that's my main struggle with boundary setting. Figuring out what the "rule" is and when there are exceptions. It's hard because my mom struggles with a lot of anxiety and depression, as well as physical problems like a brain injury, and that means she has higher needs than other moms I know at her age (I'm 30, she's 59). But at the same time, I feel like the responsibilities are overwhelming. And I don't think I can sustain helping her at the level I have over the past years, it's making me stressed and honestly, a little resentful.
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2018, 04:41:56 PM »

Hi Songbird88,

Can I ask you why your mom is not doing these things herself?  She's an adult, it's her doctor, her medical care, clearly she can use the phone    Why not put calling her doctors back on her? (Do you feel she is incompetent to do this?)

You might try using SET (Support, Empathy, Truth)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

For example... .
I'm sorry the doctors are so slow to call back, that would frustrate me too. Unfortunately, I don't have time to call them.  You have time today,  you could give them a call reminder call.

Have you talked with her Physician about what she should be capable of doing without assistance? A brain injury can really affect how your mom functions or doesn't function. You could discuss with the doctor all the things you are managing.  Are there any professional services available to her... .like home care, a case manager, or even senior daycare that might help give you a respite from all of the caretaking?

Do you think your mom is over calling the doctors office like she over calls you?

What are you doing to take care of you?

Panda39

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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2018, 05:54:30 AM »

My biggest challenge right now is evaluating what's "normal." My mom makes many demands on me every week and I honestly can't seem to figure out when to say no. I got used to doing everything she asked of me to keep her from getting angry and receive praise. Now, I'm trying to define a "new normal," which means figuring out what's reasonable/realistic/appropriate.

Can I just say that you've hit the nail on the head here! I'm also the only child of a BPD mother, though we've been NC (no contact) since February with a rough, on-again/off-again year preceding that. I still struggle so much to figure out what's reasonable and appropriate in regards to my own emotions and reactions to things... .it has ripple effects into my life in general, not just in how I deal (dealt) with my mom. I find therapy really helpful in this respect - it's good to have a neutral third party to do a sanity check with. I'm still reading through this thread, but just had to chime in to say that I also question myself constantly. I went through a period where I needed a lot of validation (in the early days of going to therapy), but I have definitely grown in confidence. I still have doubts about my own emotional assessment of some situations, but I'm learning to trust that I'm not the same person as her and that I have the capacity to view things reasonably most of the time.
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2018, 10:57:55 AM »

First, I hope you understand that you are not responsible for your mother's loneliness or happiness and she expects you to be.  We deal with this with my mother in law and my husband has gotten so much relief since he began setting boundaries and sticking to them.

I would suggest that you find some things for people her age to do in your area.  When she suggests she's lonely, she needs you or has nothing to do, give her that list.  If she complains or doesn't want to do anything, then you say, well, mom, whether you participate or not is up to you, but I am not available.  Say it every time she does it.  Eventually, you will train her somewhat.  We were very shocked to call one Friday and discover the MIL was going to a movie with a friend.  She would have never done this two years ago.
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2018, 11:15:26 AM »

This is an excellent suggestion from cClearly: 
Excerpt
I would suggest that you find some things for people her age to do in your area.  When she suggests she's lonely, she needs you or has nothing to do, give her that list.  If she complains or doesn't want to do anything, then you say, well, mom, whether you participate or not is up to you, but I am not available.  Say it every time she does it.
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2018, 02:37:49 PM »


Have you talked with her Physician about what she should be capable of doing without assistance? A brain injury can really affect how your mom functions or doesn't function. You could discuss with the doctor all the things you are managing.  


I side with Panda, here.  How did this brain injury affect your mother?  Did it make her helpless or is she making herself helpless?  It sounds like she has an extreme learned helplessness.  Every time you make one of those calls for her, you are enabling that helplessness.

cClearly
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2018, 08:49:01 PM »

 @Brkfst@Tiffanys It's so nice to hear from someone who can relate, and agreed on the "ripple effect." My boyfriend, unfortunately, has had to deal with the fallout of my interactions with my mother, as well as how our relationship has negatively impacted my ability to deal with confrontation and conflict in a "normal" or healthy way. Fortunately, he is extremely patient and understanding and I am starting to learn that a disagreement doesn't have to automatically mean a rage-filled explosion. My reactions to small conflicts have been extreme because I realized that I was anticipating a devastating fight, as I was used to with my mom (there was no in between with her... .she was fine or she was enraged). So thrilled to hear that you've made strides with trusting your instincts, feelings, and reactions!

 @cClearly that is excellent advice. It totally goes along with what my therapist has been encouraging me to do, which is "lovingly hand it back to her" when she makes a demand I can't fulfill. So like when she asks me to find doctors and call them for her, I've started explaining what to Google, or naming a list of 3 medical centers in the area she can research herself. I'll definitely do some research on some things for her to do, and see if eventually she starts taking those suggestions! Thank you so much.

 @Panda39 Thank you for your thought-provoking input! Good point. Her argument is constantly that she needs someone to advocate for her. She was calling her doctor(s) herself, but when they never called her back about making a referral, she seemed to think that me stepping in and speaking on my mom's behalf would get them moving. I don't think this is the case, but when I tell her I don't think it will help, she just starts screaming at me ("FINE. DON'T CALL THEN. THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP.") Not sure when this started but that's become a trend with her. Any time she feels "victimized" or ignored by a doctor, lawyer, real estate agent, you name it — she wants me to swoop in and call them to "stand up for her." It's exhausting. What's even more frustrating is that she complains to her friends about how horrible it is that her doctor (or whoever else) won't call her back, her friends apparently tell her "why doesn't your daughter call? would that help?" And then she uses that to guilt trip me into doing it.

I will definitely try using SET! And I'm so glad you said that about the brain injury... .I'm starting to worry that she may need more help than I can offer her and to be honest, don't know that she should be living alone with no help. Hoping we can get her an at-home aid that can help with some things and take a bit of the load off.
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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2018, 09:28:34 PM »

Excerpt
... .she just starts screaming at me ("FINE. DON'T CALL THEN. THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP.")

FOG (Emotional Blackmail)... .Fear she'll make a scene/yell, Obligation because she is your mother, Guilt if you don't do what she wants.

Excerpt
her friends apparently tell her "why doesn't your daughter call? would that help?" And then she uses that to guilt trip me into doing it.

This is Triangulation, instead of the issue being between the two of you (which it is) she is pulling a third party into things and then using their advice to pressure you.  Anytime you are feeling pressure it is likely FOG.

More on the Karpman Triangle... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

The triangle in the above case... .mom's the "victim", you are the "persecutor"/the bad guy because you won't make the call, and her friend's are the "rescuers" because they validate your mom's perspective.

Your mother is an adult and it sounds like in the past she managed these appointments... .she has demonstrated she can do it. Let her manage her own appointments. 

Panda39
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 09:54:18 PM »

@Panda39 Thanks for that info! All makes SO much sense. I can think of many occasions when that's come up, but now I can put things in perspective.

My mom backed out of our plans to spent Thanksgiving with my boyfriend's family because she was having anxiety about it (his fam lives here and she just moved here so she only knows me), so we spent the holiday just the two of us.

I was there all of 10 minutes before she made this dramatic confrontation with me saying how she's "worried about me" because I've "changed" and I'm "saying things I would have never said to her in a million years before" (i.e., saying no to her demands and refusing to talk to her when she becomes enraged and abusive). I wish I could have stayed calmer but I immediately started getting defensive bc I felt attacked — my heart was racing, total fight or flight mode. Then she said, "You're more selfish and self-involved than you've ever been." That made me infuriated, so I told her I was leaving to take a walk and I'd be back in a while. I could hear her screaming my name and she called me 10 times after I left to walk and get a coffee. I called my BF sobbing and he said, "She's perceiving your taking care of yourself and setting boundaries as being 'selfish.' She's actually the one who's been self-involved lately, and she's projecting that on to you." It makes sense, but it still hurt. I'm working on having less emotional responses to her words, because deep down, I know they're not true. Luckily, when I went back, she had calmed down and neither of us brought it up again.

Anyway, just wanted to share this because I'm trying to shift my perspective and realized that what she said (although cruel) is actually is a good sign! She's noticing that I'm changing. And I am. I'm getting stronger, and wiser, and learning to navigate this relationship better (even though it may not be to her liking). And some of those changes can be attributed to YOUR help! So thanks to everyone who's offered any sort of input here. Apparently, it's having an impact... .even my mom noticed
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 10:42:43 PM »

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This thread has reached the post limit and has been locked.  Feel free to start another conversation.
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