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Author Topic: I think I’m beyond help right now. I’ve never been so low - Part 3  (Read 449 times)
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« on: September 08, 2019, 11:23:45 AM »

Mod Note:  
Part 1 of this thread is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339296.0
Part 2 of this thread is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339368.0;all


Ok so there is alot of rich discussion in this thread. So let me outline a few things which are actually in accord with what FF and Skip are saying.

One of the main tenets of the SLAA programme talks about having values and living up to them. Step 4 in AA talks about taking a moral inventory. What we are talking about here is morality. I totally understand about role models as I've had a sponsor in AA for years who has a very strong moral code. In the past we have had disagreements about morality and me feeling judged on here regarding an extra marital affair. I accept people find this a difficult subject and Skip has said that cheating on my wife is worse than syphilis and herpes and grand larceny. I understand this intellectually. I would probably have judged other people in this way before my own situation.

FF, I do think morality is relative to one's own situation. To take an extreme example, if you had to kill one man to save many could any of us do it? Some people do. Many people who have extra marital affairs reason that they have an affair to prevent them having to leave their wife and kids and cause their loved ones pain. They reason that getting their needs met outside of the r/s is necessary because they don't want to upset the lives of those they love most. I'm not saying this line of reasoning is full of integrity. God knows I've justified my own position plenty of times. In fact having time to reflect on my own situation I have come to the conclusion that the best thing I could have done in my current situation would have been to have left my marriage last year when I knew I was in love with another woman, despite the red flags. Not because I believe the r/s would have worked, I'm certain it wouldn't have long term. Not because it would have been fair on my wife, it clearly would not have been. But it would have been far more honest and fair than what I actually did, which was to play safe and somehow hope she wouldn't find out and that the affair would somehow work itself out. I was guilty of a terrible judgement. Now you all would say that the most moral thing to have done would be to not have had the affair. Or to leave my marriage before the affair commenced and the latter I agree with. It has also been mentioned on here that impulse control is closely connected to integrity and self sacrifice should be a part of one's values and moral code.I understand the arguments and the moral perspective of what you are talking about. However, I have been miserable in my marriage for some years and when the AA woman came along I was weak and I wanted her. So, yes I went against values that I should hold and that I can guarantee I would have stuck to with the AA woman. I would not have looked at another woman. None of this is meant to be justification, or arguing with anybody's points on here, what I am saying is that I did what seemed to me to be the most moral thing at the time, not to put my wife out on the street, especially when I saw red flags in my ex's behaviour. That doesn't mean I'm a moral man. In fact it means that my moral code sucks and I probably deserve all of the judgement served upon me. However, it seemed the right thing to do at the time. In fact it may well have turned out to be the best of a bunch of bad decisions relative to my situation at the time.

When I look at the behaviour of my ex, I look upon it as a man who was trying to be as honest as I could with her. She was a woman who had entered into a r/s with me and we had both sworn undying love to each other. I told her constantly that we would end up together and I would have made good on my promise had she stuck around around long enough. I don't hold her responsible for the breakdown of my marriage. I don't even hold her responsible for changing her mind. I hold her responsible for the way it was done and for the maximum amount of pain that she caused me. I think she knew exactly what she was doing when she made threats against me on numerous occasions. She deserves my anger for coming on holiday, enjoying a romantic time and then wilfully sabotaging the r/s with me when we returned home. I wonder if she knew all along that she didn't want to be with me but just wanted a holiday. I think that makes her morally lacking for the way she has treated me. I won't go into detail on all the other numerous things she's done as you've all heard it extensively.

Now let's talk about my free pass. I'm 56 years old. My marriage is over. My r/s with the woman I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with is over. I wake up every morning at the moment wishing I wasn't here. I have grieved heavily and publicly (at meetings) and cried a thousand tears for the agony that my choices have put me through. Contrary to what you may think, I don't blame anybody for my current situation except myself. I should've realised that a one month sober woman in AA was going to break my heart. I didn't want to believe it. I wanted her and only her. I didn't get a free pass. This disastrous situation almost cost me the ultimate price. If that's not the law of karma in action, I don't know what is. You talk about values and a moral code. Well karma is part of that and many people would say it is fitting for my wife that I now suffer. I am actually one of them. There is no self pity. There is no real blame regarding my ex as she is damaged. However, I am angry, disillusioned and depressed and much of that is directed at her own dysfunction for ruining what could have been a wonderful r/s for her as well as me. You are wrong, I am committed to doing the work required for real change, but I am not going to excuse her for the way she treated me because it was shocking and I have the emails to prove it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 01:59:46 PM by Harri » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2019, 11:29:57 AM »

Excerpt
Help me understand your thinking when you reflect on your own words. 

What has been going on for the past 10 years is likely to continue.

My wife and I stopped being intimate 10 years ago, 2 years before we got married. That's when I should have left the r/s and perhaps, with a bit of work, I wouldn't be in my current mess. That's my thinking.
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 11:39:16 AM »

Excerpt
Skip brings up a very important point.  What are your values.  Over time I have developed things that are straight up not acceptable for me or people I surround myself with. This includes romantic relationships and friends.  If I'm in a relationship, I don't talk to other men in a romantic way, I don't cheat, and don't confide intimate details to other men and I expect my partner to do the same.  I was in a sexless marriage for 2 years and I chose to get out and heal before I started something new.  That is carrying myself with integrity.   Also, I do stay away from men in AA with less than a year sober unless it's in a group setting.  There is no gray area for me and if I have acquaintances doing any of these things I choose to avoid being around them.  

Values are extremely important and I look for a partner with similar ones.  If I'm not respecting my own values, I can't expect my partner to.

In the AA programme it talks about when we were drinking we were unable to live up to our values. I think this is part of an addictive pattern of behaviour.

In my most candid revelation to date on here, this is what I think happened. As the alcoholism progressed, so my moral code deteriorated. I never cheated on any girlfriend in my teens and 20's. I was what would be described as a serial monogamist. Then as my alcoholism progressed, I crossed a line. Once I got sober I disentangled myself from the wreckage of the past and for a time my moral code returned and I had a good relationship and never cheated. Then I got involved in a disastrous relationship with a woman in AA some 20 years ago which sent me spiralling into despair and back out drinking. I went to SLAA back then to  attempt to deal with this addictive, co-dependent issue but never stayed as I found the fellowship very weird. It is now more like AA and less weird and I feel I need to be there. However, my moral code deteriorated after that r/s and I never fully returned to my previous good character of my 20's. When I met my wife I was faithful for the first five years of the r/s. Then the intimacy stopped and I crossed that line again. That in very basic terms is what happened. I'd like nothing more than to return to values I hold dear in the same way that any right thinking person does. I justified it all because I was unhappy at the lack of intimacy and felt that I deserved that. Perhaps I did, but I should have ended the r/s with my wife first (she wasn't my wife then). That is the big problem I have. I never walk away from relationships and then when they finish with me, I am in abandonment and victim mode. My wife said those very words to me last week during our r/s discussion.

Just as a post script, I never looked at another woman in AA for 16 years. In fact when my ex sat next to me on the piano stool, my initial thought was 'Oh no.' When she did it the following week I humoured her with AA chat about newcomers and asked after her recovery. I felt physical pain at that fact I found her attractive and resolved to resist it. When she did the same thing on the third week and revealed she was having an operation for possible throat cancer, I gave her my number and justified it on the grounds of concern. Of course it was nonsense and I was weak. Suffice to say I shan't be repeating that behaviour.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 11:56:49 AM by RomanticFool » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 01:43:32 PM »

Just a small point, RF. Until we truly own our missteps, and are believers in changing them, no progress will be made.

I have made a mistake in my life. I punished myself for years for it and I swore to not only not make the same mistake again, but to go much deeper and change the core of the man that made the mistake.

I had plenty of valid reasons for the mistake. I had friends that gave me a pass, which I very much appreciated. I had plenty of valid ways to blame share my actions, but in my solitude, I didn't give myself a pass. Zero.

Back to you. What does it mean to say "I was good when I was 20" but have been in moral decay for decades and blame shift things to alcoholism, bad women, and a your wife's libido.

That is not conviction.

The conviction I here in all of your posts in that your GF is morally corrupt and a banshee. And I don't really look at that as conviction, as you would go back in a heartbeat if she reached out.

You have struggled for decades. However angered you are with this "one monther", she is not responsible for the actions that tell everyone the man you are.
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2019, 04:37:06 PM »

I have no problem owning my mistakes. I’m used to it in AA. I don’t see that me being hurt for the things she did is either blaming her or blame shifting. She is toxic, the relationship was toxic, it brought out the worst in me. That is a fact, not blame.

I think the way you describe my past is very black and white. To describe me as being in moral decay is ignoring the fact that there have been good parts of those decades too. It’s not all bad. Had I been in a relationship that made me happy I wouldn’t  have cheated and we wouldn’t be talking about moral decay.  Of course all of my pain has been caused by my decision making, I get that, but let’s keep it right sized. I’m not some kind of sociopathic abuser who doesn’t understand right from wrong. Nor am I hiding behind alcoholism or other women. I simply told you the facts of my life and recognise that a line was crossed in my early thirties which was then pulled back again at certain times but crossed again at others. That does not make me a morally bankrupt person and I think your summing up is too black and white, as I often feel with your pronouncements on my conduct.

No doubt you would give my ex a free pass and lay the blame squarely at my door for the breakdown of that relationship. But with every passing day I realise how she abused me and gaslighted me and I’m angry that I allowed her to do it. As I said before, I don’t blame her for anything, I’m just angry at her for the heartless way she discarded me. I’m sure in time I’ll get over it and then she will have little significance in my mind. I am also sure that by continuing to go to SLAA and get the help I need to move forward, I won’t repeat the same mistake either.

I don’t need to paint myself as morally corrupt or bankrupt or In decline to see my part in this saga. I’ve had 16 years of looking at myself in AA. I know what I’ve done. I know I’ve been cowardly and co-dependent regarding my wife and also remiss to allow a r:/s that wasn’t working to continue as we all got more hurt than had I ended it at the point I should have done. Well I’ve learnt from that but I don’t intend to beat myself up about it. My ex has done enough of that to last me a lifetime. I don’t actually see her as morally corrupt either. I see her as a Cluster b disordered person lacking in empathy to those who cross her. I also see her as extremely detrimental to
My mental health. That is not a moral judgement, just a fact. There is no way on God’s earth I would ever go near her again. We are way past the point of reconciliation and we are now strangers to each other. I have been hurt by her and as such I have very little respect for the way she has treated me and very little respect for her as a human being. But again, that’s probably the anger talking. I’m not going to pretend she’s a paragon of virtue and I’m the transgressor because it simply isn’t true. I had a part to play but she behaved like a psychopath. I’ll show you the emails if you don’t believe me.

There is a saying in AA: ‘What other people think of me is none of my business.’ So I’ll just go about my business, do the work I need to do and seek the help I need. I’ll leave the moral judgement about my character to others.
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2019, 04:47:20 PM »

  Had I been in a relationship that made me happy I wouldn’t  have cheated and we wouldn’t be talking about moral decay.  


RF

This seems to sum up the majority of the way you appear.  You give yourself a pass on cheating because you weren't in a relationship that made you happy, yet...who chose to be in a relationship that didn't make you happy?

That was you RF.  You choose to be unhappy and chose to cheat, rather than "non-cheating" options to increase happiness.

This assessment doesn't change "the fact" that others have done things they shouldn't have done to you.  I'm sure that is the case, please don't hear any doubt about that.  You don't control their choices, only yours. 

Looking inward is where accountability, change and happiness can be found.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2019, 05:12:44 PM »

For me, being sober is not just time without drink.  It means I am living the steps, not just doing them.  I have to practice the principles in all my affairs.   I was in a terrible marriage with a compulsive gambler and it cost me a lot emotionally and financially.   However, I was true to myself and did not lie or stray from the marriage even when he flat out refused to have sex.  I am responsible for my own actions and what example am I to the newcomer if I act sober in a meeting for an hour but don't stick to my values the other 23 hours a day.

In my home group there is a member with 10 years that has been acting out in her personal life.  It has literally driven people away.  She's lost respect from most people and no one wants to be around her.  Her former husband has carried himself with dignity and never said a cross word.  The people in the rooms have surrounded and supported him and it's the exact opposite of how she is treated.
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2019, 05:20:37 PM »

FF,

I don’t give myself a free pass but nor do I beat myself up. I own up to my mistakes and move on. Life is short and drink beat me up enough in my life. I hear what you say and I don’t disagree with you as I’ve been looking inwardly for the last 16 years to stave off alcoholism.

Ct21218,

I can’t comment on the situation at your home group but it’s also part of the programme not to judge others. There but for the grace of God go I. I try to live the principles of the programme in all my affairs too.
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2019, 05:25:19 PM »

Yes it is, but I do have to judge others if I want to stick with the winners.  Her behavior is toxic and I can choose to distance myself as many have.  She has been called out on her behavior multiple times and she just denies everything.  I don't need to be her friend. We're supposed to grow up in all aspects in AA.
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2019, 05:33:05 PM »

That’s true but there are a lot of unhealthy people in the rooms. Length of sobriety is not necessarily an indicator of health. If I was her partner I’d go to different meetings as I have done in my situation. I’d say everybody in recovery is a winner and hopefully the woman in question will use the programme to get well. Life isn’t easy and we all find ourselves in difficult situations at times. Many people in AA deal with the alcoholism but not other areas of addiction and many find themselves in SLAA to deal with love and sex addiction as I am now doing. Perhaps somebody should direct the woman in your group to the nearest SLAA meeting to help her.
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2019, 05:40:07 PM »

My point is that no one would blame her soon to be exhusband if he vented about her or acted out himself.  He has not done that.

In my most recent relationship, it got violent at the end.  I own a car that he makes payments on.  I could certainly be vindictive and take the car back, but I don't want to harm him.  I made an agreement with him that as long as he made payments, the car is his.  I also agreed to keep him on my dental coverage until the end of the year.  When the second violent innocent happened, I had to file for an order of protection.  No matter, I made a commitment to keep him on my insurance and I will keep my word.  Even if someone else is not acting with integrity,  I am responsible for my actions.   I get to choose what kind of person I want to be.  I don't get to use excuses for my behavior,  I can only look inward and figure out why the relationship deteriorated the way it did, because I always have a part.
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2019, 03:34:11 AM »

Yes me too. When the ex dumped me I could have thrown away the script she edited for a film I’ve directed or not given her a credit. I told her that she will be credited then i let her off the £500 she owed me for the holiday as I didn’t want to use it as an excuse to keep contacting her. I could also have asked my wife not to move back into the family home after she moved out but she had nowhere else to go. I get to choose what kind of person I want to be also and not justify screwing people over.
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2019, 06:45:08 PM »

Part of showing that person some grace is letting go of the resentment and realizing that this is who you chose to be in a relationship with and you could have chosen to get out earlier if you wanted to.  A person with one month sober is not emotionally mature and really doesn't even know who they are or what they want yet.  My ex had 2 years when I met him, even so, we were at very different places emotionally. I stayed because I wanted it to work and I expected him to be capable of things he just couldn't do.
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2019, 09:01:11 PM »

I love your insight, ct21218. Yuo have leaned a lot in your life.
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2019, 01:39:00 AM »

Time is the great healer and I am bound to feel angry since it is an early  stage of grief. There is a long way to go yet in the process and at the moment I wake up every morning with yearning and feeling bereft. As it says in the AA Big Book  ‘We are not Saints’ and I am upset with grief and longing. I don’t blame her but she is a 51 year old woman with serious mental health issues and she did damage to my self esteem and emotional well being. It’s a cop out for anybody just to blame it on mental health issues or early recovery. She behaved abominably and without much decency in the end. I take responsibility for my decision to stay in the r/s when it was obvious that it was over months ago, but it would be nice for her to show some empathy for the heartless way she went about her business. Of course she won’t ever show that because she isn’t capable of it. So I will carry on grieving and using the tools of the AA programme and in the time the hurt will ease. However, I remain angry and hurt because I am a human being who invested my whole heart into this r/s and was let down badly by a damaged woman. I think your comments are a little unrealistic for the stage of the grieving process I am at. As I said earlier I have behaved very well during the break up when what I really want to do is scream from the roof tops that she  is an unreliable Judas!
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2019, 02:44:02 AM »

The way I feel at the moment being compassionate to her then opens the door to start missing her in an unhealthy way and I just need to close that avenue off at present. I need to remind myself of exactly how unhealthy the r/s was and understand that this was a woman who isn’t capable of showing love and compassion to me in that r/s. It’s very hard when I see her behaving well to friends and her daughter and reserving her venom and bitterness for me. All the talk of emotional intensity and emotional attachment has obfuscated one very clear issue here: she abused me physically and sent me the most horrendous texts accusing me of abuse and threatening to expose me all over social media and in AA rooms. When I asked her exactly what I am supposed to have done she couldn’t say.  So it’s not so much that she was a newcomer when we met or that she couldn’t sustain a r/s for the reasons that you have described, in the end the level of abuse that she aimed at me is what has done the damage. I didn’t abuse people when I was a newcomer in relationships or otherwise nor did anybody I know. We are dealing with an extreme case of damage here. As I said, I don’t blame her, I still love her. The way I am showing that love is by behaving decently and leaving her alone. However, I was deeply affected by it and part of my recovery is to deal with my emotions and try and find a way to live without her in my life and without feeling suicidal about the break up. Emotional recovery takes time. I have avoided the worst excesses of my own behaviour precisely because I am in AA and have learnt restraint of tongue and pen. I am behaving well in an emotional crisis and that is as much as I can ask from myself for today. I’m sure in time I will forgive her and be more understanding and compassionate for her own pathology but right now I must look after myself. That means staying away and recognising that I was dealing with a damaged woman in an impossible situation. I am taking my share of responsibility at the same time and am sucking up the pain and agony and trying to heal.
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2019, 03:50:18 AM »

This has been my mantra for many a year in dealing with my alcoholism:

Excerpt
. Many of us exclaimed, What an order! I can’t go through with it. Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these
principles. We are not saints. The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines.  

The love and sex addiction has in some ways been even more profound and damaging to my mental health and just as devastating as any other addiction. I am trying to grow up and handle these things like an adult. Not be over reactive emotionally and the thing that I am learning the most on these boards and perhaps should have already learnt in A.A. is that putting other’s needs before my own is the true meaning of empathy. I have been examining ways that being empathic to my ex would have prolonged the r/s but I now see the futility in that position. I should never have become involved with her. I was lonely and in need of some love and intimacy when I met her. What I should have been doing is more work on myself and my relationships with friends and getting out of my marriage before embarking on yet another affair. However, people that we feel a strong love and connection with don’t come along very often and I so wanted the r/s with my ex to be the big one and rescue me from my discontentment. I see that is putting a tremendous pressure on anybody, let alone a newcomer, especially when I wasn’t available myself. You know what the most painful part of all this is? Not how she treated me really. Not that she walked away. What I really struggle with is early on when she was apparently in love with me she would cry when I had to go home. I wish with all my heart I had been free to see where that love would have taken us. But maybe that’s bogus too. Maybe that was just her own neediness but I do have regrets that I couldn’t be there for her when she needed me early on.
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2019, 09:16:06 AM »

Pulling back and leaving her alone (physical, verbal, media) is smart and I commend you on letting her go with grace - not blasting her or doing any push/pull or button pushing.

I know it's hard. It's the right thing to do.
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2019, 09:42:49 AM »

RF, to give you an idea of what I dealt with at the end, my ex said in open court that he was going to tell everyone that I sold myself for money.  This was on the stand in front of a judge.  At the clerk's office, he was yelling loudly about what a whore I was to the person who came to support him.

I have a professional, stable job with a publicly traded company.  I simply sat there and the Deputy walked me to my car when it was over.  My ex was in terrible pain from the break up and wanted to lash out.  I had to face him in court and have him question me while I was on the stand.  The person in front of me was unrecognizable.  So much hate and anger and unable to see how he was at fault. 

It doesn't matter what he says to other people about me in AA.  I know who I am and I carry myself with dignity.  The first days after court (beginning of August) were extremely painful.  I picked up some new service commitments and surrounded myself with close friends.  Only 2 or 3 know what happened.  I don't need to explain myself to anyone or try to defend myself.  I really wish the best for him, this was someone I shared a life with for 2 years.  Yet when it was over, there was no going back.

Skip, thank you for the kind words.
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2019, 09:54:48 AM »

Excerpt
Pulling back and leaving her alone (physical, verbal, media) is smart and I commend you on letting her go with grace - not blasting her or doing any push/pull or button pushing.

I know it's hard. It's the right thing to do.

Thanks. It's the most grown up thing I've done in the whole r/s. My wife told me that she is meeting someone for a drink tonight. My instant instinct was to contact my ex and try to get her back.

However, I know that would now be absolutely futile and would lead to my utter humiliation. So I know I have no choice but to do what I'm doing. However, I am happy that I told my ex that I don't want the money for the holiday and I told her the work we did together would be credited and she was an excellent script editor. That was a time of maximum pain. If I hadn't been coming on here and going to SLAA I may have gone round to her house and raised hell. I am so glad I saved myself that indignity.

The feeling still persists in me that she is the right person for me. She doesn't agree and I must look at the history of the r/s and see the reality and truth of the situation. How long until I stop thinking of her as the soulmate that got away? It's almost unbearable to let her go without a fight.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:10:13 AM by RomanticFool » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2019, 09:58:23 AM »

What is your definition of a soulmate?  I think it should include all aspects of their personality, not just an emotional connection.  For me, a soulmate would be emotionally mature and wouldn't do anything to knowingly harm me.
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019, 10:06:27 AM »

Excerpt
RF, to give you an idea of what I dealt with at the end, my ex said in open court that he was going to tell everyone that I sold myself for money.  This was on the stand in front of a judge.  At the clerk's office, he was yelling loudly about what a whore I was to the person who came to support him.

I have a professional, stable job with a publicly traded company.  I simply sat there and the Deputy walked me to my car when it was over.  My ex was in terrible pain from the break up and wanted to lash out.  I had to face him in court and have him question me while I was on the stand.  The person in front of me was unrecognizable.  So much hate and anger and unable to see how he was at fault.  

It doesn't matter what he says to other people about me in AA.  I know who I am and I carry myself with dignity.  The first days after court (beginning of August) were extremely painful.  I picked up some new service commitments and surrounded myself with close friends.  Only 2 or 3 know what happened.  I don't need to explain myself to anyone or try to defend myself.  I really wish the best for him, this was someone I shared a life with for 2 years.  Yet when it was over, there was no going back.

That is all highly commendable behaviour and the first thing that strikes me is that you have incredible restraint of your emotions. The currency of my work is my emotional life and I've rarely tried to keep them in check. My mantra in relationships has always been 'accept me as I am or not at all.' I can now see the lack of emotional intelligence behind that position. Not that I would have uttered that so bluntly but that is effectively how I handled my ex at times. It is supremely ironic that now I am in a position where I could be with her and spend nights with her, she has moved on. That pain is going to take some time to deal with and I'm not sure the sting will ever fully leave me. I yearn to be in a position where I am free and to give her the person I really could be in a r/s.

However, as you described your ex's behaviour I know my ex is exactly the same. She screamed at me in public numerous times and wrote to me regularly denouncing me as an abuser, a narcissist and a manipulative predator. As time is passing I am beginning to see it more from her point of view. I don't condone or forgive (yet) what she said and did, but I can at least understand the pain she was going through. She doesn't know that I would have made her my queen...and even if she did know that she isn't emotionally healthy enough to conduct a r/s with me that could do such elevated feelings of love justice. She didn't want the intensity in the end, either emotional or sexual. She couldn't handle it. She didn't really want me in the end. I don't think she really knows (or cares) who I am as a person. I served a purpose for her to help her get through early recovery. She was angry with me because it was more traumatic for her than it should have been. What she really wanted was to have a nice time with someone. That's what I really wanted too but we both fell in love/lust with each other and became out of control. Finally in the break up, I have discovered some dignity and restraint and empathy. Better late than never. Though one of the reasons I have discovered it now is because she is no longer screaming blue murder at me. This is the person I always thought I was. Unfortunately, I just couldn't handle my ex.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:13:32 AM by RomanticFool » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2019, 10:08:37 AM »

Excerpt
What is your definition of a soulmate?  I think it should include all aspects of their personality, not just an emotional connection.  For me, a soulmate would be emotionally mature and wouldn't do anything to knowingly harm me.

That is a great description. I would add somebody who will love me unconditionally and would always communicate with me and be honest. To be fair to my wife she was always honest with me. In many respects she was everything good apart from the emotional side.
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 10:13:29 AM »

Also, I'm not a person that believes that there is one perfect person out there for me and I may or may not encounter them in life based on their proximity to me.  There are so many people with in this world and I'm naturally going to click with some more than others.  It's not like I get one shot at happiness and that's it.  The happier and healthier I am on my own, the greater likelihood that I will attract someone with similar qualities.
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 10:20:09 AM »

Yeah, I blame Hollywood for the one true love nonsense. I've always subscribed to that theory and felt cheated when it didn't work out. The fact I didn't get married until I was 48 illustrates how nonsensical that idealistic romanticism is. What I can say is that those feelings of love, passion and closeness with my ex are right up there with the best feeling I've ever had in my entire life. Those moments of spooning with her in bed were some of the best of my life. When I would hug her she would say "this is bliss.' I want that bliss. I don't know if it's possible to feel that way with someone healthy. Perhaps the fact we were two damaged people wanting the other person to fix us is why it was so incredibly intoxicating. I miss those moments of bliss with her more than words can express. I thought her to be my soulmate and my other half. She talked about wanting to climb inside me. I now know that SLAA would define this as merging. That essentially takes away our sense of self and autonomy. To some degree this happens even in healthy relationships but healthy people are always autonomous. I am codependent...especially on my ex.
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2019, 10:54:59 AM »

Unfortunately the price for that emotional intensity is what you are going through now.  It's not true sustainable love.  It's infatuation and obsession. It feels good for awhile,  but when you come down, you come down hard.
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2019, 11:06:30 AM »

You don’t believe that two healthy people could experience that and sustain it?
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 11:08:04 AM »

Everyone has infatuation in the beginning of a relationship.  It's not a permanent state.  People get used to eachother.
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 11:09:57 AM »

So do you think it's Inevitable that people will become sexually bored with each other? Or one person will always be more invested than the other?
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 11:14:14 AM »

No, I don't think it's inevitable.  People tend to get lazy after a period of time.  I was still having sex with my most recent ex 3-4 times a week and he would complain that it wasn't enough.  It takes work on both parts to keep it fun and interesting.  What's is the longest time you've been in a relationship?  I was in a 5 year relationship years ago and we always were very sexually compatible, but in different phases of life.  He was quite a bit older than me.
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