Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 10:43:42 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Survey: How do you compare?
Adult Children Sensitivity
67% are highly sensitive
Romantic Break-ups
73% have five or more recycles
Physical Hitting
66% of members were hit
Depression Test
61% of members are moderate-severe
108
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 ... 10  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: It's hard...  (Read 10716 times)
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10444



« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2021, 03:08:17 PM »

The financial arrangement you have puts you in a precarious situation. You invest your time and money but have no ownership of either a place to live or a car. At this point you may wish to consider saving for ownership of something yourself in time.

Ownership is power. If she owns the house and car, she has power over you.

"1 is her true intention at a soul level" but you are not dealing with just a pure soul right now. She's a soul in a body that is in the physical world right now and this is what you are dealing with- her behaviors. Intentions are hard to guess at. While you certainly don't wish to create harm to her, you also don't have to enable her to cause harm to you.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2021, 03:36:48 PM »

The financial arrangement you have puts you in a precarious situation. You invest your time and money but have no ownership of either a place to live or a car. At this point you may wish to consider saving for ownership of something yourself in time.

Ownership is power. If she owns the house and car, she has power over you.

"1 is her true intention at a soul level" but you are not dealing with just a pure soul right now. She's a soul in a body that is in the physical world right now and this is what you are dealing with- her behaviors. Intentions are hard to guess at. While you certainly don't wish to create harm to her, you also don't have to enable her to cause harm to you.


Yeah. I had strong feelings in the beginning to rent somewhere together, rather than rely on her dad's money to buy us a place. Same with the car, I wanted to get one for us, but she wanted a hand me down within her family.

Both have been used to control me in the past. That's why I have never felt like the home we live in is my home. It hasn't felt like a safe and sacred place which is what home should be.

She's pushed me to give her large amounts of money in the past and I submitted. Over the last 3 years, with help from a sponsor, I learned not to.

I think renting my own place will send a strong signal of my freedom and independence. First of all, she will judge me because I would be spending money on monthly rent. By me ignoring that judgment she will see that she can't control all my finances. She'll see that she needs to go back to work.

In my own place I'll feel wonderful. Free. Home.
Logged
zaqsert
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, starting divorce process
Posts: 300



« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2021, 06:42:54 PM »

Truthdevotee, I may be saying some of what others have said here too, but I'll chime in.

During this time when she seems to be on good behavior, make a point to yourself to remain aware and to focus on your needs and your boundaries. Otherwise it can be easy to fall back into the belief that "it's finally getting better." I won't attempt to say whether it truly will or won't get better, but it seems you have been through that cycle many times before, so it's fair to assume that it would continue to happen.

Remaining aware and focusing on your needs will help to keep you on the path that you choose for yourself.

It will also help you to remain more grounded and less thrown off balance if (or more likely when) she goes back to doing any of her old behaviors. You won't be able to predict when she will do this, but it will be less of a surprise to you when she does. My uBPDw tends to love vacations and holidays. But they are also quite triggering for her. When I used to think of it rationally (we're going on vacation, she loves these, what could go wrong?), her dysregulation would catch me off guard and throw me far off balance. Recognizing the pattern instead, it's nowhere near as surprising, which helps me to keep myself on the path I want and helps me be faster at protecting our D10 (daughter) from rages against her.
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10444



« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2021, 05:46:43 AM »

I think renting my own place will send a strong signal of my freedom and independence. First of all, she will judge me because I would be spending money on monthly rent. By me ignoring that judgment she will see that she can't control all my finances. She'll see that she needs to go back to work.


Be careful of your intentions. To stay away from co-dependency- it's important to "act on yourself" not her. These statements sound like "if I do X, she will do "Y" as if your actions will somehow be able to have a specific effect on her. We are not able to control anybody but ourselves. Trying to change her by changing you isn't effective. Let's rewrite this:

I think renting my own place will send a strong signal to me of my freedom and independence.  If she judges me because I would be spending money on monthly rent, my response will be to ignore that and remain in control all my finances. I am not in control of how she responds but I am in control of how I respond.

Thinking she will somehow see that she needs to go back to work is a bit of wishful thinking. More likely, there could be an extinction burst of behavior to return things to how they have been. The focus needs to be on how you can handle this. Also  a quick cut off of funding may not be a manageable plan. Even if she did go back to work, it takes time to apply, interview, and this is a big change in behavior. that may not be achievable immediately. But you do need control of the money you make. Some sort of allowance with a time limit ( if you are splitting up) "I will send x per month for 3 months". You may need to consult a lawyer to determine this- you are not legally married but I don't know if you have obligations due to having children with her. The plan you have is not acceptable to you but a change isn't likely to be acceptable to her. Having some plan in place, and support from a professional may help you decide on a boundary that doesn't get you into legal problems.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 05:53:40 AM by Notwendy » Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2021, 01:07:29 PM »

Truthdevotee, I may be saying some of what others have said here too, but I'll chime in.

During this time when she seems to be on good behavior, make a point to yourself to remain aware and to focus on your needs and your boundaries. Otherwise it can be easy to fall back into the belief that "it's finally getting better." I won't attempt to say whether it truly will or won't get better, but it seems you have been through that cycle many times before, so it's fair to assume that it would continue to happen.

Remaining aware and focusing on your needs will help to keep you on the path that you choose for yourself.

It will also help you to remain more grounded and less thrown off balance if (or more likely when) she goes back to doing any of her old behaviors. You won't be able to predict when she will do this, but it will be less of a surprise to you when she does. My uBPDw tends to love vacations and holidays. But they are also quite triggering for her. When I used to think of it rationally (we're going on vacation, she loves these, what could go wrong?), her dysregulation would catch me off guard and throw me far off balance. Recognizing the pattern instead, it's nowhere near as surprising, which helps me to keep myself on the path I want and helps me be faster at protecting our D10 (daughter) from rages against her.

Thanks a lot, Zaqsert.
My EXPWBPD also dysregulates tremendously, especially in the planning and preparation and packing stage.
Throughout this month, I'll do exactly as you said. I'm keeping my eye out for a place to rent from September 1st. The added benefit is my older son will be back at school by this time.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2021, 04:56:05 AM »

I think renting my own place will send a strong signal of my freedom and independence. First of all, she will judge me because I would be spending money on monthly rent. By me ignoring that judgment she will see that she can't control all my finances. She'll see that she needs to go back to work.


Be careful of your intentions. To stay away from co-dependency- it's important to "act on yourself" not her. These statements sound like "if I do X, she will do "Y" as if your actions will somehow be able to have a specific effect on her. We are not able to control anybody but ourselves. Trying to change her by changing you isn't effective. Let's rewrite this:

I think renting my own place will send a strong signal to me of my freedom and independence.  If she judges me because I would be spending money on monthly rent, my response will be to ignore that and remain in control all my finances. I am not in control of how she responds but I am in control of how I respond.

Thinking she will somehow see that she needs to go back to work is a bit of wishful thinking. More likely, there could be an extinction burst of behavior to return things to how they have been. The focus needs to be on how you can handle this. Also  a quick cut off of funding may not be a manageable plan. Even if she did go back to work, it takes time to apply, interview, and this is a big change in behavior. that may not be achievable immediately. But you do need control of the money you make. Some sort of allowance with a time limit ( if you are splitting up) "I will send x per month for 3 months". You may need to consult a lawyer to determine this- you are not legally married but I don't know if you have obligations due to having children with her. The plan you have is not acceptable to you but a change isn't likely to be acceptable to her. Having some plan in place, and support from a professional may help you decide on a boundary that doesn't get you into legal problems.

Thanks for all your support from the bottom of my heart.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2021, 05:01:21 AM »

That's so true it will send a string signal to me.

That's a very insightful statement.

Sometimes I wonder if I should have the strength to be myself and just slowly but surely work through her resistance.

On the other hand, leaving and renting my own space could help me to do that so much faster and with less stress, and thus less impact on my physical and mental health.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2021, 11:01:04 AM »


Argh.

May have made an error.

Expwbpd brought me a heart shaped stone from the ocean. I did not plan to say anything about my move out. I brought them on a holiday as I felt it would be the highest good for all. However, I didn't really want the holiday and we're not due to go back until Friday (driving).

I didn't want to reveal anything until I'd sorted everything. Because no communication has ever been possible with her.

I thanked her upon receipt of the stone. And she recognised I didn't kiss her. I couldn't lie. Tried to avoid the topic but was not mindful enough. Tired from hot sun too.

 I revealed that it's not working for me. And that my plan is to move to a separate home.

Sadly but not surprisingly she completely dysregulated and started bringing the boys into it. My 4 year old is old enough to understand. She was ranting and raving, causing a scene. Asking them if they want us to stay together in one home. Blaming angrily.

It only all served to reinforce my decision.

I really didn't want the boys to know though. Not till later. This feels like a big mistake. I wanted everything done behind the scenes.

Even more sadly, I could not record her telling me to take the boys, which I'd been planning to do. I will try to capture it next time I see her. She told me several times that I should take them and I really want the evidence.

Didn't want this to happen. Maybe a bit of self sabotage going on. Also will make it harder for the boys.

Why did I do this? Any tips on handling it now is out in the open?
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2021, 12:10:22 PM »

It may have been self sabotage.

Maybe other unconscious reasons for this occurring.

Only thing I can do is go with the flow in complete honesty, kindly.

I don't want physical contact or any heated conversations.

Generally speaking I don't want to "talk." I just want to gently be myself and speak about my truth, my wants and my needs.

I want to plan to get my own place by September 1st. Ready to start my new job and home office.

I don't think I want it to be a trial separation. I think I want to have the opportunity to meet new people.

I want my boys to feel loved by me through it all.

I want to call my family of origin so my boys know they are loved by others in the family.

I can't control what she will say to my boys. But I want to be there to ensure my learning is shared with them, and to make sure it will all be a fun adventure.

I don't think there's anything she could say or do now to say my decision.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2021, 12:32:34 PM »

I think all the years of hurt resulted in wisdom rather than raw hurt. I honestly don't feel animosity towards her. Only desire to be distant, to have the opportunity to be me, to share life and Life's teachings with the boys.

She disappeared, she's been gone for about 2 hours. This is the first time I've relaxed on this vacation. It feels great just me and the lads. I can Be with them and they are more peaceful
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2021, 12:38:55 PM »

I'll be ready with Airbnb accommodation on immediate return from vacation.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2021, 12:48:12 PM »

I feel that to do anything different to what my feelings are telling me would be a loss of integrity that I can't bare now. This is a new feeling for me. It's the rising of feelings and heart and self trust above the mind and its doubt and thinking. It's what women seem to do naturally, know what they feel, express it, know it to be true beyond what the mind says is right or wrong. It just is. Acceptance. Love.

I suppose this is a sign of growing into a mature adult.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2021, 02:35:42 PM »

OK it was less eventful than I was fearing.

Blame and criticism that I'm not committed... Etc.

Other than that, she appears strong although she showed a tear at one point when she asked me for the stone back.

I don't feel manipulated any more by the tears and displays of anger. There are so many ups and downs with her on a monthly basis. I find it exhausting...



Logged
ForeverDad
Retired Staff
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18074


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2021, 02:39:41 PM »

There's a lot of things I could have done better in my own separation and divorce.  Accept what happened and adjust your strategies going forward.  The children are young.  The specifics of these events will likely fade in time since they're so young.  As long as they're not repeatedly reminded of it.  Which is hard to do since you can't control the behaviors of the other parent.

What stopped you from recording?  The stress of the moment?  Your phone or other device wasn't handy?  I recall I had many missed opportunities to record.  That was back in the day before smart phones.  I used voice recorders but they were a bit awkward and had limited memory.  Accept what happened and adjust your strategies going forward.
Logged

truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2021, 02:58:23 PM »

There's a lot of things I could have done better in my own separation and divorce.  Accept what happened and adjust your strategies going forward.  The children are young.  The specifics of these events will likely fade in time since they're so young.  As long as they're not repeatedly reminded of it.  Which is hard to do since you can't control the behaviors of the other parent.

What stopped you from recording?  The stress of the moment?  Your phone or other device wasn't handy?  I recall I had many missed opportunities to record.  That was back in the day before smart phones.  I used voice recorders but they were a bit awkward and had limited memory.  Accept what happened and adjust your strategies going forward.


Thanks so much!

Yes got it, adjust, re-prepare, keep moving.

So, we'd been at the beach all day. I was mindful enough to remember to record. But since I had 4% battery on my phone remaining, the phone recorder app said it would not work. Gutted. I was gutted. Missed a lot of stuff. Not that I want to use it ever, but it's wise for me to capture it.

Lesson learned, have sufficient mobile charge. I went to the holiday house and plugged in for the next conversation, which I captured. I got some evidence that she had pulled my son in the middle and that she would like me to be the primary caretaker. But she added something she hadn't mentioned before - "until I get back to work." She had never said that before. But I suppose it has never been this serious, I don't think she ever thought I'd do it. Therefore, it's natural that her thinking will evolve in terms of how to actually manage it going forward.

Right now she's just saying that I'm irresponsible. I'm being gaslighted a lot, but I'm stronger in my sense of self than ever before and it's touching me much less than it did in the past. She appears to be trying to get me to doubt myself, telling me I'm ruining the children's lives, telling me whoever I'm getting guidance from doesn't have the family's best interests at heart, telling me I'm lost, telling me that in 20 years I will realise what a terrible error I made, etc.
Logged
ForeverDad
Retired Staff
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18074


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2021, 03:22:07 PM »

In recent years I've bought portable chargers (lithium battery "bricks") so I'm never far away from a recharge.  Actually I have so many now, I lose track of them.
Logged

TheBatHammer

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 46


« Reply #76 on: August 09, 2021, 09:41:17 PM »

There are some good quality hidden recorders out there if you do a cursory search. Not a typical voice recorder/dictaphone. Disguised as everyday objects, pick the one that best suits your lifestyle.

$100 or so, very portable, charge it and it lasts for weeks, can pick up hundreds of conversations in decent quality if it's in the same room, sometimes in the next room.
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10444



« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2021, 03:53:11 AM »

Why did you get yourself into this situation? First of all, it is water under the bridge so dwelling on it would not be helpful, however, it might help to understand your part in this, because I suspect it's a long standing pattern of how the two of you interact.

These patterns are sometimes so automatic, you aren't always aware of them until you are in them and wonder "how did I get here again".

Have you seen the hole story? It describes the process of changing. So you fell in the hole again, that's part of it.

https://simpleandpractical.com/stages-change-poem/








Logged
yeeter
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 2210



« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2021, 08:20:44 AM »

Nice link Wendy, I like it a lot.

Truth, as for "how you got yourself into this?"

I was asked that recently - my answer was remarkably clear and simple:

"I am a complete idiot"

Then corrected that slightly to "I was a complete idiot at the time.  Naïve and had no idea there were people like this"

This adjustment implies I have learned something.  We will see because as a friend once told me decades ago: 

"Life is a series of lessons.  If you do not learn the first time, dont worry, you will get that lesson again."

Yep, that is about as much time as is worth spending on the question - water under the bridge.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2021, 10:41:53 AM »

There are some good quality hidden recorders out there if you do a cursory search. Not a typical voice recorder/dictaphone. Disguised as everyday objects, pick the one that best suits your lifestyle.

$100 or so, very portable, charge it and it lasts for weeks, can pick up hundreds of conversations in decent quality if it's in the same room, sometimes in the next room.

In recent years I've bought portable chargers (lithium battery "bricks") so I'm never far away from a recharge.  Actually I have so many now, I lose track of them.

Thank you both so much for support
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2021, 10:42:42 AM »

Why did you get yourself into this situation? First of all, it is water under the bridge so dwelling on it would not be helpful, however, it might help to understand your part in this, because I suspect it's a long standing pattern of how the two of you interact.

These patterns are sometimes so automatic, you aren't always aware of them until you are in them and wonder "how did I get here again".

Have you seen the hole story? It describes the process of changing. So you fell in the hole again, that's part of it.

https://simpleandpractical.com/stages-change-poem/










This is an amazing and beautiful poem. Never had seen it. I'll share this far and wide
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2021, 10:54:18 AM »

Nice link Wendy, I like it a lot.

Truth, as for "how you got yourself into this?"

I was asked that recently - my answer was remarkably clear and simple:

"I am a complete idiot"

Then corrected that slightly to "I was a complete idiot at the time.  Naïve and had no idea there were people like this"

This adjustment implies I have learned something.  We will see because as a friend once told me decades ago: 

"Life is a series of lessons.  If you do not learn the first time, dont worry, you will get that lesson again."

Yep, that is about as much time as is worth spending on the question - water under the bridge.

This is really true.

I heard the teaching for many years "do not be naive." My first spiritual teacher said it many times over.

Despite hearing it, I didn't "know it." I'd say, after this experience, I've learned it and "know it." Don't be naive.

Within 4 months I was already having major alarm bells ringing. I didn't have the self-trust to follow my intuition. 2 children and much pain over 8 years later... here I am... having the same alarm bells, and ready to take action...
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #82 on: August 10, 2021, 01:12:48 PM »

She just asked me for a hug as a request for oxytocin. Her character was damsel in distress.

I was caught off guard. I didn't return it but allowed her to lay on me.

The hug was disturbed by our younger son.

A few minutes later she came again. This time I said, I don't think it's appropriate for us to cuddle.

She replied, it is for me because I love you. But I can't change your decision.

My thoughts are, she says she loves me, but I can't live with the ups and downs anymore. 2 weeks ago she called me evil and a few days ago, a stupid man. This type of thing happens so frequently.

I think she aims to trigger a part of me that will sympathize with the damsel in distress.

But I want more than that, I want co-commitment, conscious loving and both of us to be self developing. That's more than an attachment based love relationship.

Is it true that she is likely aiming to 'pull me in' emotionally?




Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #83 on: August 10, 2021, 03:22:20 PM »

I think part of the reason I didn't want to tell her in advance was my awareness that she would dig deep to try to keep me locked into the same pattern. That occurred tonight in a overall calm conversation in the following ways:

Trying to get me to doubt myself by telling me several times that I'm being guided by "someone" who lacks integrity, and doesn't have our family's best interests at heart

Insinuating quite obviously that I'm not forgiving. But the point here isn't that I lack forgiveness but that I don't want to remain in the same patterns and lack of connection

Guilt tripping by insinuating I'm not willing to see "all her improvements" in emotional regulation over the last 6 months, despite the fact that two weeks ago she called me evil in a rage and one week ago she called me a stupid man

Telling me that our conversation tonight is the first time I've been willing to "let her speak in 6 months," where the truth is that I've been unwilling to let her emotionally dysregulate and dump her emotions. Tonight she was not dumping, her intention was clearly toward peace and careful communication. Therefore this was a clever trick

Despite all her positive sounding words about her view of forgiveness tonight (despite yesterday telling me she would never ever forgive me if I were to move out) she showed no indication of commitment to new behaviour... Only the insinuation that we live and learn and it may take many years not to have the same ups and downs...

When I highlighted some things of the past that I have been unhappy with, such as being hit on 5 separate occasions, wishing my family of origin members dead many times, calling me names on a weekly basis, she brought up instances of the violent things I'd done such as ripping a paper calendar once and pulling out the modem from the wall and breaking it. These are things I hated and made amends for. There's truth to her words that these are things that I should not have done, but to compare them with the frequency and intensity of the things she does and CONTINUES to do, is not truthful... This is really tricky and I see the lie she is telling


The lies are so subtle probably because I still feel unsafe talking to her. Starting to be more objective I can see more of what is happening
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10444



« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2021, 03:45:50 PM »

I am glad you like the poem. I think we can see this in different ways. Yours is how did you get into the relationship but one can also see it as falling into patterns. I saw it this way when I realized I was having the same circular argument ,or JADEing about something as if for some reason doing the same thing and expecting different results would be different this time.

Your hole now- explaining logically why there are issues and your wife refuting them. Think for a moment, if the two of you could solve your issues by this kind of discussion, you would not be dealing with the issues you have now.

Climbing out of your relationship pattern hole will need you to recognize that you are in a familiar hole. It may help you to call your sponsor and work out what on your end is keeping you in the pattern. This is different from the relationship, even if you want out of it, understanding the patterns will help you to learn different ways of relating.

Not sure who she thinks is "guiding you". You are your own guide.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2021, 04:13:29 PM »

I see my pattern of wanting her to understand why me leaving is a good idea.

That's not healthy. If understanding were possible, we wouldn't be where we are now.

Since a total lack of mutual understanding results in lack of connection, there is essentially no love holding us together. Only my willingness to continue being manipulated thru guilt and fear would enable the relationship to continue, because that is what it was built on. There was no authenticity.

I see the pattern and I want out. Even the conversations about me leaving follow the same pattern! The relationship can't support any other form of communication, since there's no mutual co-commitment.

She's been trying to force me to see it her way tonight... Pointless dynamic...

Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2021, 02:42:42 AM »

This morning she's taking a more bulldozing approach.

I feel it's like an attempt to confuse me with immense emotional energy, nervous system overload, all an attempt to create fear and doubt.

In the past I would have followed the thought 'what if I'm wrong' and given the benefit of the doubt. Now the theme of my life is listening to my inner voice and trusting that my intuition and feelings have validity. Therefore, I'll stick with the former paragraph as an assessment of what she is actually doing.

Almost like she wants me to freeze like a rabbit in the headlights via anger and intensity, so that I don't move.

I had to leave the house.

It's sad that this is actually how she is. Rather than focus more intensely on her own growth, capabilities and independence, she's highly dependent on me and hides the fact with a veneer of angry self confidence in her judgments of me, such as that I'm simply a person who lacks commitment and the willingness to forgive. These assessments of me in the past caused me to freeze and, due to severe self doubt, introject.

Now I can give more attention to it objectively. This isn't about my lack of forgiveness, it's about being stuck in a painful pattern and complete lack of connection and alignment. Thus I live next to her either as an empty shell or someone who has to force to get his needs met, which is highly stressful.
Logged
truthdevotee
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Wife, but not formally married
Posts: 423


« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2021, 04:36:18 AM »

Argh. I'm losing objectivity and getting overwhelmed.

Need some help.

For a while in our conversation she appeared to be hearing me on my needs, such as the need to get a nanny, the need for me to have more freedom with increased support from a nanny, my long term desire to come off medications which can't happen without that support, etc. She appeared to be bending, listening, and hearing me and even having some sort of small revelation that wow, maybe she understands for the first time and is willing to change. It was like a drug for me. I got more and more intense stating my needs and wants. I got overwhelmed and filled with false hope.

Now I remember this has happened several times in the past Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
It happened 6 months ago.

But what happened? It seems to be a cycle where my pent up frustration arises more intensely now and again, and she appears to bend. But then things always go back to the way they were.

Please help me not to get caught up in false hope. Unless there is real hope, just hope that is in reality 10, 20 or 30 years of struggle until shifts in behavior have truly occurred. I.e. there will be very little short term change...

She's willing to see my family of origin at Christmas.

I'm tired and overwhelmed. I hate the cycle of hope that I get locked into. I don't want to get locked into it. I don't want to stay, yet I still hold that attachment of an attached and happy family. Intact...

Is this my childhood trauma playing itself out strongly right now? As a kid, I would love the times of calm... they'd fill me with hope that things would finally be OK again, that things might stay calm this time... those times of calm always came after a storm - a big fight between Mum and Dad which I always trying to keep under control by being the mediator. Am I just witnessing this now in my adult life? I don't want my boys to carry that same pattern into the future... Those times of peace and hope were beautiful, only to be broken with another fight a few weeks later... another disappointment, sadness, pain... when I was about 10 years old, I told my mum that I wished her and my dad would break up. I remember the moment, I was in tears having locked myself into the bathroom. My mum was banging on the door asking me to open it, and I did. I was in tears and I remember the shock on her face when I said "I just want you to break apart"

All these years later, they are together. Are they together happily? I think in their older age, they are more happy then they ever were. They told me that they rubbed each other's rough edges from one another... they told me that love is hard and that they stayed together for the kids. I don't know much about the quality of their relationship now, due to being far away for so many years... but they seem more chilled. Nevertheless, my mother is severely ill with obsesity and chronic fatigue syndrome, as well as a heart disorder. Was this caused by the loss of her authentic self? My Dad was the disappearing father... he was probably exhausted by my mother. I can see that I'm a more energetic Daddy to my boys when my EXPWBPD isn't around. Just our mere presence in the same room seems to negatively affect the boys behavior.

Do I follow the way of my parents? That love is a commitment and that we stay together for better or worse, despite the fact that "worst" severely wounds life satisfaction and joy? Do I stay with my EXPWBPD now, because she wants me to, even if I don't want to have physical or emotional contact with her? Or do I go, get through the hard time, and re-build a truly joyous and happy life? With my boys so young, will this be better for them? To have a Dad who is happier and more fulfilled, living more in Soul and Spirit rather than pain and exhaustion?

It's hard...

Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10444



« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2021, 04:55:26 AM »

Keep in mind that all of us, including her, have a set of relationship tools. Some of the suggestions on this board are relationship tools for decreasing conflict- and these are for us to do- not manage the other person. One "tool" is to remove ourselves from a high conflict/circular argument - in order to calm ourselves down. Looks like you did this and it's a good thing. You were in an angry discussion- and you left the house. As long as the kids are safe- this is OK to do, and keeps the situation from escalating.

Until we learn new relationship tools, we use the ones we have. Perhaps you have had a long standing habit of appeasement to keep things calm. These "tools" work for both people and when they work, we keep using them as they are reinforced. If each time your wife approached you with anger, you appeased her, then this is reinforced. If each time you appeased, things calmed down- this reinforced your own uncomfortable feelings- and so the patterns between you are reinforced.

We can only control ourselves, not someone else, but if there's a pattern of interaction between two people and one person changes, this changes the comfort level of both. She's uncomfortable because what has usually worked to calm her down doesn't. You are uncomfortable too. There's information on this board about the "extinction burst"- sometimes the behaviors that worked escalate. As long as you can tolerate your own discomfort ( and everyone is safe) you hold up your end of the change. Sometimes the other person also learns different behaviors, or not, but this is not up to us.

You have worked with the addiction model, and so this will make sense. All addictions serve as escapes from uncomfortable feelings. In the pattern of co-dependency- enabling, appeasing, explaining (JADE), and other habits serve to calm the other person and this relieves us from our own discomfort at seeing them upset. On the other side - the other person is behaving in ways that also serve as emotional relief. You may have been "managing her feelings" for a while, and while this may sound as if you are being kind and accommodating, you are also managing your own feelings by giving in- and in this way, reinforcing her behavior.

Consider why the pull to appease is so strong for you. It may help to stay centered on your side of this and see her behavior as using the tools that she has- they worked for her before - why wouldn't she. Your part is to manage your own feelings.
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10444



« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2021, 05:00:42 AM »

If you are feeling overwhelmed and losing objectivity, you are not able to participate in any discussions with her about your relationship at the moment. It's a self care thing. It's OK to say "I can't say yes or no right now, I am feeling overwhelmed and need to think about this". It's OK to stop negotiating things like seeing family for Christmas, nanny, etc because if someone is overwhelmed they are not thinking clearly.

This is where a time out is needed. Make it about you, not her. "I need some time to think about this" and take it- leave the house if the kids are safe, or say " I can't discuss this now, I need a few moments"
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 ... 10  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!