An update…where is this going?

[Cat Familiar]

Is meerly responding to him what shows that I am still interested? Is it something he can just tell?

Yes, and yes. By responding, you are signaling you are interested in communicating with him. He is likely to be very aware of minimal cues you give to show that you would still like him to be a part of your life.

Is this being all he is willing to offer my fault (since he has committed to a new girlfriend) because I always welcomed him back?

Think of someone you’ve known, male or female, old or young, friend, acquaintance, romantic partner, who happened to be more interested in you, than you were in them. Is it their fault that you weren’t as interested? Could they have done anything to make you more interested?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tina7868]

Think of someone you’ve known, male or female, old or young, friend, acquaintance, romantic partner, who happened to be more interested in you, than you were in them. Is it their fault that you weren’t as interested? Could they have done anything to make you more interested?

Absolutely wasn't their fault, and I let them know very early on I am not interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with them so as to avoid wasting anyone's time or hurting their feelings.

With the relationship with my ex, it doesn't feel the same to me, but I appreciate the point you are making. I have heard "I am over you, I will never be with you again" from him so many times. It feels like something else was behind the change in his feelings, I guess. He was all gung ho about a relationship with me, got very disappointed when I couldn't visit him, was distant when I dated someone he later told me he knew (I wasn't aware of this), and then he chose to find a relationship with someone similar to me who lives close to him.

I guess it feels important to me to explain this. The different components at play stemming from a "normal" relationship vs. a toxic cyclical relationship are at odds within myself. I feel like if it were simply the case of someone not being as interested in me as I was in them then I would have moved on much more easily, mostly because I have before and I didn't take it personally.

I don't want to imagine anything that isn't there, because his actions indicate I am not a priority to him, and I haven't been for a while. I accept that he has moved on, and the last thing I want to do is chase him or try to force something to happen. I understand feelings can change over time, and that this happens even within the healthiest relationships.

In an ideal world, I want to face reality, stop trying to make anything happen, get rid of worry. Be a confident, self assured person, the best version of myself. If things change, as they have before, one of the possibilities for the future include him being part of my life. Does that sound like a reasonable perspective? I apologize if I am going around in circles, you can imagine what it's like in my brain if I am sharing only some of my thoughts 

[tina7868]

Yes, and yes. By responding, you are signaling you are interested in communicating with him. He is likely to be very aware of minimal cues you give to show that you would still like him to be a part of your life.

Is there any better response than what I have been going with so far that would be in my interest? Should I explicitly say, I wish you well and would be open to reconnecting if there wasn't someone else involved?

[Pook075]

Is there any better response than what I have been going with so far that would be in my interest? Should I explicitly say, I wish you well and would be open to reconnecting if there wasn't someone else involved?

My guess would be no.  Don't feed into that.  If you want to be more direct, ask to meet or talk on the phone.  But don't put your feelings out there at the start of a conversation, because that's just giving him the power to crush you.

I am in the exact same situation; my wife of 24 years left a few months ago.  Never knew until recently why she was distant at times, etc.  Our doc just told me that this is classic BPD.  However, my daughter was diagnosed with BPD 6 years ago and I learned from that experience for 10+ years.  

Be supportive.  Be kind.  But put yourself first at all times.  Your mental health ALWAYS comes 1st.  If he's not willing to pursue you, then he doesn't deserve you (at least for today).  Remember that!

[tina7868]

My guess would be no.  Don't feed into that.  If you want to be more direct, ask to meet or talk on the phone.  But don't put your feelings out there at the start of a conversation, because that's just giving him the power to crush you.

I am in the exact same situation; my wife of 24 years left a few months ago.  Never knew until recently why she was distant at times, etc.  Our doc just told me that this is classic BPD.  However, my daughter was diagnosed with BPD 6 years ago and I learned from that experience for 10+ years. 

Be supportive.  Be kind.  But put yourself first at all times.  Your mental health ALWAYS comes 1st.  If he's not willing to pursue you, then he doesn't deserve you (at least for today).  Remember that!

Thank you for your words Pook, I really appreciate them . With perspective I agree that writing that kind of message is not what I want to do. I will put my own mental health first.

[Manic Miner]

When we think we can control the outcome of our interaction with our partner, we are assuming that we have more power in our relationship than our partners do.

What "opportunity" didn't you take? What did you take for granted? What didn't you realize before it was too late?

True.
Well, at this distance I think I should have been less controlling and less rigid/strict in my thinking. I had no bad intentions, whatsoever, but I can see now that my W needed more space for herself. I was taking her for granted in that sense. However, I tried to fix it and changed a lot in that way, but yeah, didn't see the result. It was always something else. Like a mirage. You see the goal, you go there and it's 20 meters away again.

We even played a "gifting game", as our T showed us. We had to write 10 stuff we'd want to have from the other person, but only 3-4 or so were core ones that each of us could focus right away. We had to mark those we could see ourselves committing first.
Well, my list was mostly about intimacy and friendship, even some trivial fetish-like stuff and her list was all about deep issues, deep (mis)understandings. I remember when I read her list, I was like 'omg here she goes again. These aren't gifts but deep issues'. She sensed that and there was even some arguing about it. I was effectively invalidating her.

Now I see some of her stuff she wrote on that list weren't that bad. I mean, it was over the top and far too serious, but considering everything BPD related, it was manageable.

That kind of thing I miss now. I tend to think I should have pushed harder and be more validating where I could. I guess I wanted to be logical more than efficient.

If you look back honestly at your history, you probably did the best you could at the time, with what you knew then. Why judge your previous self with what you know now?

I know, you're right. I tend to see my faults very clearly and be aware of them, yet somehow forget that I too have seen/endured a lot and my thinking then was also affected by whatever issue was at that time.

[tina7868]

That kind of thing I miss now. I tend to think I should have pushed harder and be more validating where I could. I guess I wanted to be logical more than efficient.

I tend to see my faults very clearly and be aware of them, yet somehow forget that I too have seen/endured a lot and my thinking then was also affected by whatever issue was at that time.

I can really to what you are saying here. What I would say to you, and therefore also to myself, is that you are human, which can be hard to remember when you're looking back and identifying what you could have done differently. You did your best with what you understood and felt at the time, and you learned from the situation. Everything being so "high stakes" is an abnormal circumstance, one that you can't blame yourself for not being prepared for. Be kind to yourself, learn and grow .

[tina7868]

On my end, I have been reflecting on my situation, from a different perspective. I'd like to share this perspective as I flesh out and solidify it. Trying to put it into words here helps. I guess I've been trying to get back down to earth with my thinking and center myself in acceptance of the present.

As I've mentioned before, the difficulties in the past few months were very much provoked after I had made plans to go visit my ex and then canceled. He had been lonely, and looking forward to me coming, a lot. He had said "I am so excited to see you that I am scared". He had made plans as to what we would do. I realize now how incredibly disappointed he was when I canceled. My backing out had to do with financial uncertainty at the time, but if I'm being completely honest my living situation with my family who greatly disapproved of me going to see him (and thus me feeling like I would need to lie about my trip) also influenced my actions. After that cancelation, I tried to convey to him that I would be able to see him during the summer, but he had completely shut me out. It's like he went into dating turbo mode, and found someone who objectively speaking looks like me (hey, he has good taste I guess   ). I feel a lot of remorse over the way things played out. If nothing else, I feel like that turn of events really pushed me to finally make changes in my life. I am now completely independent financially, and more importantly I choose to make decisions that make sense for me, despite other people's opinions, and be honest about them.

I feel like laying out the situation like this also explains why it's difficult for me to let go, when I feel like there was a connection, there was chemisty, there was history, and it could be that the degree of his hope and excitement came crashing down, and affected things the way they did. I have witnessed him behaving like this towards others who disappointed him before, and objectively his response is on him, but it doesn't help with closure.


I feel like, yes, he may have lost all feelings for me. BPD or not, that kind of thing happens all the time. Yet, those feelings can change again, as evidenced many times in our past.

If you want to be more direct, ask to meet or talk on the phone.  But don't put your feelings out there at the start of a conversation, because that's just giving him the power to crush you.

We've been chatting very casually lately. I asked if he's free to talk, and I am trying not to make negative assumptions about why there are delays between his responses to my messages. I can observe my anxiety mounting when I spiral into contemplating why he hasn't replied, and I take responsibility for my feelings (in the past I would have tried again to get his attention and blamed him for "doing" this to me).

All to say, I feel a lot more at peace with the situation. I am grateful for this community.


 

[cranmango]

As I've mentioned before, the difficulties in the past few months were very much provoked after I had made plans to go visit my ex and then canceled. He had been lonely, and looking forward to me coming, a lot. He had said "I am so excited to see you that I am scared". He had made plans as to what we would do. I realize now how incredibly disappointed he was when I canceled. My backing out had to do with financial uncertainty at the time, but if I'm being completely honest my living situation with my family who greatly disapproved of me going to see him (and thus me feeling like I would need to lie about my trip) also influenced my actions. After that cancelation, I tried to convey to him that I would be able to see him during the summer, but he had completely shut me out. It's like he went into dating turbo mode, and found someone who objectively speaking looks like me (hey, he has good taste I guess   ). I feel a lot of remorse over the way things played out. If nothing else, I feel like that turn of events really pushed me to finally make changes in my life. I am now completely independent financially, and more importantly I choose to make decisions that make sense for me, despite other people's opinions, and be honest about them.

Hi tina--I've followed this thread closely. Many of the pieces of your journey resonate with me. I just wanted to chime in and say that this seems like a really valuable insight. The disappointment for him when your trip was canceled was probably really intense. And a lot of his subsequent behavior can be viewed through the lens of him protecting himself as a way to ward off any future disappointment. His fear and hurt and disappointment were probably far more intense than we can really understand.

That being said, his behavior also shows his emotional immaturity. Shutting someone out after being disappointed is not a mature response. It destabilizes relationships and makes it impossible to maintain any kind of intimacy. So while it may have protected him in the short-run, it is only hurting him in the long-run. And this is *not* on you. It's on him.

I am really encouraged to hear how you were able to use this event as a catalyst for change. Achieving financial independence and having confidence in your own decisions are really positive life changes! I hope you can be proud of yourself and see how much you are growing.

[tina7868]

Hi tina--I've followed this thread closely. Many of the pieces of your journey resonate with me. I just wanted to chime in and say that this seems like a really valuable insight. The disappointment for him when your trip was canceled was probably really intense. And a lot of his subsequent behavior can be viewed through the lens of him protecting himself as a way to ward off any future disappointment. His fear and hurt and disappointment were probably far more intense than we can really understand.

That being said, his behavior also shows his emotional immaturity. Shutting someone out after being disappointed is not a mature response. It destabilizes relationships and makes it impossible to maintain any kind of intimacy. So while it may have protected him in the short-run, it is only hurting him in the long-run. And this is *not* on you. It's on him.

Hi cranmango, thank you for your reply Your words address the thoughts that were floating in my head and bring me peace.

I am really encouraged to hear how you were able to use this event as a catalyst for change. Achieving financial independence and having confidence in your own decisions are really positive life changes! I hope you can be proud of yourself and see how much you are growing.

Thank you for your kind words! I tell myself, at the very least, even if my ex doesn't come back, I was forced to grow more than I probably would have within the relationship.

When I started this thread, it felt like I was grappling for someone, anyone, to give me the magic recipe so that I can fix the situation as fast as possible. Something like "text x and y, wait 4.5 days, cut your hair, and there you go"  . It came from a place of fear, anxiety, confusion and, I hate to admit, manipulation. With honest input from others, therapy, and time, I tried different perspectives. They didn't always make sense, but they pushed me to consider how I was behaving vs. how I wanted to behave. Every time I've taken a pause to contemplate what I was doing and where I was coming from before acting, I gained confidence in myself.

I am still me haha   I still desire to be with my ex, but I know that forcing, manipulating, obsessing, are not the ways to go about it, and I value who I want to be and the intention behind my actions more than obtaining any result.

[tina7868]

Over the weekend, he sent me a long message. The main gist of what he said was that he felt weird about our last interaction, that his gf doesn't like that we talked, so he doesn't want to have a call with me, that he's sorry and knows that I must so disappointed and it's hard.

I replied that I understood, respected his decision and his boundaries, and am here for him as a friend if he wants to reach out.

Well. I have never been able to answer like that before. I feel like I presented myself well. I was respectful and understanding, didn't validate the way he assumed I would feel (sad), and left an opening for the future. I didn't take responsibility for how he felt, and didn't defend myself and my intentions because there is no need to, I am not the problem here. If anything I could read this as an indication that there are still some feelings there that confuse him around me, and that his gf can pick up on that and so she feels insecure.

Again, I have never responded like this. I am so happy.

Then, slowly but surely, what feels like a million questions started popping in my head - did I say something wrong? should I apologize? is he prioritizing her because she is better than me? Then realizing that seeking answers to these questions leads to more and more questions, with no end that is "satisfying". Then the feeling that I am not "doing" anything actively once again. I feel comfortable after sending him a message and waiting for a response instead of leaving this kind of opening where I have to really let go because I am not in control.

More lessons to be learned I guess. They keep coming 

[Manic Miner]

Over the weekend, he sent me a long message. The main gist of what he said was that he felt weird about our last interaction, that his gf doesn't like that we talked, so he doesn't want to have a call with me, that he's sorry and knows that I must so disappointed and it's hard.

I replied that I understood, respected his decision and his boundaries, and am here for him as a friend if he wants to reach out.

Well. I have never been able to answer like that before. I feel like I presented myself well. I was respectful and understanding, didn't validate the way he assumed I would feel (sad), and left an opening for the future. I didn't take responsibility for how he felt, and didn't defend myself and my intentions because there is no need to, I am not the problem here. If anything I could read this as an indication that there are still some feelings there that confuse him around me, and that his gf can pick up on that and so she feels insecure.

Again, I have never responded like this. I am so happy.

Then, slowly but surely, what feels like a million questions started popping in my head - did I say something wrong? should I apologize? is he prioritizing her because she is better than me? Then realizing that seeking answers to these questions leads to more and more questions, with no end that is "satisfying". Then the feeling that I am not "doing" anything actively once again. I feel comfortable after sending him a message and waiting for a response instead of leaving this kind of opening where I have to really let go because I am not in control.

More lessons to be learned I guess. They keep coming 

You did great. In fact, you sounded so empathetic and kind, but remained firm on your grounds. Thumbs up! Don't overdo it, don't overthink. Stop there. I know that feeling, I did it myself trillion times, even with friends and other people. I'm learning to cure myself from that. Overthinking is never good.

[tina7868]

You did great. In fact, you sounded so empathetic and kind, but remained firm on your grounds. Thumbs up! Don't overdo it, don't overthink. Stop there. I know that feeling, I did it myself trillion times, even with friends and other people. I'm learning to cure myself from that. Overthinking is never good.

Thanks Manic Miner! Your encouragement means a lot to me. I have been working on dealing with intrusive thoughts.

Some days I feel on top of things, and other days not so much! I do feel like my most logical course of action is to let things be. It's been feeling harder lately, but hopefully if I keep going I will get motivated again.

[tina7868]

Hello BPD family! It's been a while. Life has been busy. I have been focusing on myself and working towards personal goals. I want to post to give an update on my state of being and welcome reflections as always.

I have been in regular contact with my ex over the past few months. I noticed my own contribution to the old dynamic (feeling anxious, desperate, not good enough) and decided to see these feelings as an opportunity to grow. I felt confused by his boundaries at times, but remained respectful and did not take them personally.

I still feel a lot of care for this person, but I know that I am able to have these feelings from a distance and be happy for him. He recently pulled away and I had a very big picture moment and realized that for the past few years, he has been in and out of my life. I kept feeling like if I could say the right thing and be a certain way, then he would be a more consistent presence. It feels important to accept that he disappears sometimes. I think the approach to dealing with this that aligns most with me is to not take it personally, be welcoming when he reappears, and let it go.

I also tell myself, that if we were to reconnect on a romantic level some day, the version of me that would show up best in that relationship would be solid in her ability to put this into practice. In addition, that version of me would know that she doesn't need anyone to feel complete and happy.

[tina7868]

I want to follow up on what I said yesterday. My ex spoke to me about the person he is dating last night, how he is taking care of them while they aren’t feeling well. It triggered me a lot and I felt a wave of anxiety. To prioritize myself, I realize I need to take space. I guess, deep down, through all the cycles, a big part of me felt that eventually we would find our way back to each other. I have been working so much on myself and have been being myself while talking to him that I put aside these feelings.

Now, I am thinking why does it seem to be working out so well with this other person, what does she have that I don’t, and feeling like I am not enough. I know it’s not personal, I know that things can change. I also know that maybe he found what he was looking for in this other person, and that hurts me a lot because I wanted to be that person with all my heart.

I have been a big proponent of doing things differently lately, and it sounds crazy but if I wait even a week to respond it would be the first time in 6 years that I didn’t get back to him as soon as I could. I want to see how that feels.

A friend of mine said that, paradoxically, the version of me that can be with him is the version of me that doesn’t want to be with him. And I have to work towards being that version of me for me, not with the intention of being with him. Isn’t that frustrating.

[cranmango]

Hi Tina—I’ve been following your thread for a while now, and much of what you write resonates with me. I am going through a parallel process here. So I hear you, and I am sorry that you are hurting so much right now.

I think you a part of you deep down knows that these things are true, but it helps to hear it out loud: You are enough. You deserve love. You deserve a partner that appreciates you.

I spent months trying to impress my ex by being light, confident, funny. And what happened? She doubled down on her relationship with my replacement. And I felt like such a fool.

But then I started investing in other relationships. Friendships and some casual dating. And I realized I like being light, confident, and funny. It drew people to me. People want to be around me. And that feels good.

What kind of person do you want to be, for yourself? What kind of relationships do you want in your life? Who are the people in your life that appreciate you for you, and make you feel good about yourself?

[tina7868]

Hi Tina—I’ve been following your thread for a while now, and much of what you write resonates with me. I am going through a parallel process here. So I hear you, and I am sorry that you are hurting so much right now.

I think you a part of you deep down knows that these things are true, but it helps to hear it out loud: You are enough. You deserve love. You deserve a partner that appreciates you.

I spent months trying to impress my ex by being light, confident, funny. And what happened? She doubled down on her relationship with my replacement. And I felt like such a fool.

But then I started investing in other relationships. Friendships and some casual dating. And I realized I like being light, confident, and funny. It drew people to me. People want to be around me. And that feels good.

What kind of person do you want to be, for yourself? What kind of relationships do you want in your life? Who are the people in your life that appreciate you for you, and make you feel good about yourself?

Thank you for your reply, cranmango. Your words are well received. My anxiety level feels through the roof today. Your experience trying to be light, confident and funny around your ex resonates with me. I have been doing the same thing. Sometimes, he is very responsive. He even initiated a phone call once (I know I am stuck on that). Other times, he is cold and unresponsive.

Also, in the past, when my ex would see me after not having spoken to me for x months, he would talk about how beautiful I was, how from miles away he is so attracted to me. And now, he saw me once and asked for a picture of me when I told him I bought a new dress, and he didn’t say anything. I know it isn’t true, but part of me feels maybe I am not beautiful anymore. I don’t always feel like this, it’s just now that I am having thoughts like this. I get that relationships end, I really do. I get that people move on and live full lives and it didn’t mean anything about the worth and value about either partner that things didn’t work out.

I have been investing in friendships. I feel supported. My friends are surprised when I open up and tell them I have anxiety. They tell me (it feels weird to write) that I am very calm and collected, that I seem to value myself, that I am radiant and take care of myself. I feel stubborn, but I am not open to dating through apps. Partially because I have feelings for my ex which I think would not be fun to bring into another relationship, but also because I plan on moving cities soon, and also I don’t like dating apps.

As to what kind of person I want to be, for me, I want to be unbothered. I want to be so confident in my value and worth that someone not choosing me doesn’t phase me; it’s their loss really, and it’s below me to think about it. I want to be focused on the good in my life and present. Let him go, wish him well, and choose to always prioritize myself. I want relationships where I can trust the other person, where there is open communication, where there is respect and friendship. Where there is consistency.

It feels almost harder to not respond than to wait for him to respond to something I said.

[tina7868]

Another update post! My feelings have evolved a lot. I started having similar thoughts and feelings to before when we'd stop talking. I felt despair. But then, I told myself, just look at how much you've tried with the same perspective of hoping for things to be different, of hoping if I change something within me, it would change someone else's behaviour. I will take on a new mindset.

I have learned all I needed to learn from this relationship. I wish this person well, but they do not need to be a part of my life anymore. Someone better, and better things are coming my way. I needed to be sad, to grow from this sadness, to ultimately open myself up to new experiences. I release the past, and whatever I was holding onto. My happiness comes from within me, and I do not give the power of my state of mind over to anyone else, let alone someone who plays games. I also thought my fears out. If he is happier with someone else, so what? If ultimately we weren't the right match, who cares? What does it have to do with where my life is going?

I received a couple of texts from my ex. I used to make the effort to try and understand what he might mean behind them. I used to think they meant he cared. But they're not prompts for a conversation. He said something like 'thanks for not replying'. What am I even supposed to say? Even if he does care on a certain level, where is there room to grow in a relationship where there isn't clear communication? Why should I make so much effort and be vulnerable? I don't feel like I owe him any response.

What do you think? Am I being too harsh?

[Pook075]

I received a couple of texts from my ex. I used to make the effort to try and understand what he might mean behind them. I used to think they meant he cared. But they're not prompts for a conversation. He said something like 'thanks for not replying'. What am I even supposed to say? Even if he does care on a certain level, where is there room to grow in a relationship where there isn't clear communication? Why should I make so much effort and be vulnerable? I don't feel like I owe him any response.

What do you think? Am I being too harsh?

I am going through the exact same thing; we're at the same place in our journey basically.  And your sentence in bold is the million dollar answer that I have to remind myself of daily- love is not enough.  It doesn't matter how much I love her or how much I've grown, until we can communicate openly and honestly, a relationship is impossible.  We can't be friends and we certainly can't be husband/wife until we can really talk to each other.

But then, in my mind, I go back to our breakup 7 months ago.  What happened?  Nothing really.  She got very depressed.  She shut down.  We had a brief conversation and she left.  And now that I process this, the entire breakup is over not being able to communicate or talk out her feelings.  That's why I had my heart ripped out after 24 years.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think you're being too harsh.  His thoughts and actions are not based on logic.  Maybe he still loves you deeply, who knows, but the one thing you need is clearly not there- honest, two-way communication.

[tina7868]

I am going through the exact same thing; we're at the same place in our journey basically.  And your sentence in bold is the million dollar answer that I have to remind myself of daily- love is not enough.  It doesn't matter how much I love her or how much I've grown, until we can communicate openly and honestly, a relationship is impossible.  We can't be friends and we certainly can't be husband/wife until we can really talk to each other.

But then, in my mind, I go back to our breakup 7 months ago.  What happened?  Nothing really.  She got very depressed.  She shut down.  We had a brief conversation and she left.  And now that I process this, the entire breakup is over not being able to communicate or talk out her feelings.  That's why I had my heart ripped out after 24 years.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think you're being too harsh.  His thoughts and actions are not based on logic.  Maybe he still loves you deeply, who knows, but the one thing you need is clearly not there- honest, two-way communication.

First off, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this, as I relate to all the complicated, and often contradictory, emotions that are involved. Feel free to share your reflections, and state of mind.

I also think back to our breakup (or rather when the distancing got really pronounced and he started seeing someone else), about a year ago now. I have posted about it before, it wouldn't be hard to reason out what happened. That way of thinking used to be enough for me to hold on. Then I realized all the treatment I was putting up because of the gaps I was filling in. It was such a solid fact, for so many years, that I would always be there. That I would be kind to him, that I would accept him back into my life on his terms. Not answer for 2 months? Still there. Get a girlfriend who doesn't want us to speak over the phone? That's fine, I understand. Not want to see me in person? Everyone has their own process. When he calls and I don't answer, I tell him when I will be available. When I ask if he's free, he says he will be busy, disappears for multiple days, and never follows up.

Taken individually, these actions may be fine, but as a whole, they really indicate a low quality relationship. I feel now, he can live with the choices he's made. What does he want from me? And more importantly, what does it matter if he can't say it? I can be kind and forgiving and understanding. But maybe, finally, I found where I draw the line. 

[Pook075]

First off, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this, as I relate to all the complicated, and often contradictory, emotions that are involved. Feel free to share your reflections, and state of mind.

I also think back to our breakup (or rather when the distancing got really pronounced and he started seeing someone else), about a year ago now. I have posted about it before, it wouldn't be hard to reason out what happened. That way of thinking used to be enough for me to hold on. Then I realized all the treatment I was putting up because of the gaps I was filling in. It was such a solid fact, for so many years, that I would always be there. That I would be kind to him, that I would accept him back into my life on his terms. Not answer for 2 months? Still there. Get a girlfriend who doesn't want us to speak over the phone? That's fine, I understand. Not want to see me in person? Everyone has their own process. When he calls and I don't answer, I tell him when I will be available. When I ask if he's free, he says he will be busy, disappears for multiple days, and never follows up.

Taken individually, these actions may be fine, but as a whole, they really indicate a low quality relationship. I feel now, he can live with the choices he's made. What does he want from me? And more importantly, what does it matter if he can't say it? I can be kind and forgiving and understanding. But maybe, finally, I found where I draw the line. 

Well said.  I feel the same exact way and I accept it.  I also look at the journey since the breakup and realize how much I've grown- like you, I assumed we were a constant and there was always time to work through things.  Just let this go, for now, and we'll work through it next week, next year, whatever.  I did the exact same thing you did, letting parts of me slip away to keep that "normal" feel.  But I think you and I both now know that we lied to ourselves back then.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that your recent updates really moved me because we're so close to being in the same place with all of this.  I really appreciate you and I'm rooting for you!

[Couscous]

What do you think? Am I being too harsh?

You might want to consider the possibility that you aren’t being harsh enough.   

[Cat Familiar]

Agree with Couscous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80ToAmjfq0

Sorry for ads on this link.

[tina7868]

Thank you for all the support, it means a lot to me. When going back to read my earlier posts, I see that people have been telling me from the beginning all these things that took me many months to realize.

Well said.  I feel the same exact way and I accept it.  I also look at the journey since the breakup and realize how much I've grown- like you, I assumed we were a constant and there was always time to work through things.  Just let this go, for now, and we'll work through it next week, next year, whatever.  I did the exact same thing you did, letting parts of me slip away to keep that "normal" feel.  But I think you and I both now know that we lied to ourselves back then.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that your recent updates really moved me because we're so close to being in the same place with all of this.  I really appreciate you and I'm rooting for you!

I don't really know how this comes off, but when I think about those traits that made me stick around for so long, for longer than I should have, I don't feel bad about them at all. Compassion, patience, belief in the goodness of others, caring...all of those traits, that I believe you have too, are wonderful characteristics. And it is his loss, not mine, to not have recognized that. What do I lose? A fantasy in my head that did not align with the person he really is. My true lesson, and what I will take with me in the future, is that the moment someone treats me with disrespect and doesn't own up to it or try to rectify it, they have no part in my life.

You might want to consider the possibility that you aren’t being harsh enough.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

One of his messages was along the lines of 'so you're ghosting me', which I admit did make me question myself, because I don't want to be someone who ghosts, or gives someone the silent treatment. How do I know I am not doing that?

After years of him saying things to get reactions out of me, being dismissive of my feelings, being inconsistent, and not recognizing my value (like when I asked if we could talk on the phone, him replying he was busy, disappearing for a week, reappearing with a cryptic message, and not following up), I feel like it would be a waste of my time and energy to explain why I do not want to engage with him. That's not ghosting. What good would it do? He would find a way to twist it around and make it my fault, he would find a way to make it such that he is the one making the decision to not talk anymore. It is not my responsibility to teach him how to treat people, and it is not up to me to give him any more opportunities.

Agree with Couscous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80ToAmjfq0

Sorry for ads on this link.

This song is my new anthem, thanks for sharing! I am also a fan of 'Lose you to love me' by Selena Gomez.

I was wondering, why is he sending me these messages? Of course I can't know the true answer. My T had suggested when I have these types of questions to answer them for myself. In the past, I'd have thought they meant he still cared. Now, I feel like they are ego-driven grabs for attention meant to get a reaction out of me and thus, on some level, making him feel good about himself. I don't entirely blame him for this behaviour; for years, I showed him it was okay to treat me this way. For the past few months, I stopped reacting. And now, I chose to not even respond. You accept the treatment you think you deserve. And I deserve a whole lot better.

[cranmango]

I don't really know how this comes off, but when I think about those traits that made me stick around for so long, for longer than I should have, I don't feel bad about them at all. Compassion, patience, belief in the goodness of others, caring...all of those traits, that I believe you have too, are wonderful characteristics. And it is his loss, not mine, to not have recognized that. What do I lose? A fantasy in my head that did not align with the person he really is. My true lesson, and what I will take with me in the future, is that the moment someone treats me with disrespect and doesn't own up to it or try to rectify it, they have no part in my life.

I agree that those are wonderful characteristics. Hold onto those. The healthy relationships in your life will be strong *because* of those characteristics.

I am learning many of these same lessons, in parallel with you. Thanks for sharing with us, so that we can all grow together.

[Couscous]

One of his messages was along the lines of 'so you're ghosting me', which I admit did make me question myself, because I don't want to be someone who ghosts, or gives someone the silent treatment. How do I know I am not doing that?

So he’s gaslighting you here.

What he is referring to as “ghosting” is referred to as “breaking up” by normal people. But if you were gaslighted in childhood by your parents into believing that acting in your own best interests is selfish then it’s completely understandable that you would have fallen for it. The vast majority of people on this earth do not remain friends with or in contact with their exes, unless they have children together.

[Pook075]

I don't really know how this comes off, but when I think about those traits that made me stick around for so long, for longer than I should have, I don't feel bad about them at all. Compassion, patience, belief in the goodness of others, caring...all of those traits, that I believe you have too, are wonderful characteristics. And it is his loss, not mine, to not have recognized that. What do I lose? A fantasy in my head that did not align with the person he really is. My true lesson, and what I will take with me in the future, is that the moment someone treats me with disrespect and doesn't own up to it or try to rectify it, they have no part in my life.

I agree, I'll never regret being loving, caring, patient, compassionate, etc...that's who I am.  What I've discovered these past seven months though is that I deserve to be with someone who will love me just as much, and treat me the way a person like me deserves to be treated.  So even when I miss my ex at times, I remind myself that the marriage would only work if she's willing to make it work.  For now, that's not a possibility for her and I accept that.

One other thing that jumped out is a BPD's ability to forgive.  I do believe my wife really loved me, but whenever we got into an argument she'd bring up things from decades ago.  That's no way to live, constantly apologizing for my worst days when I provided 20+ years of great days.  Time gives this perspective and I am very grateful for it.

[Couscous]

Oh, I just realized that you are still hoping to pursue a relationship with this guy. I had read your bio and was under the impression that you had broken things off with him and were just trying to not be mean about it. My bad!

But the answer to your question of where this is going is: Absolutely nowhere. But I understand if it may take some time for you to b able to accept this. Wishing you all the best!

[tina7868]

Oh, I just realized that you are still hoping to pursue a relationship with this guy. I had read your bio and was under the impression that you had broken things off with him and were just trying to not be mean about it. My bad!

But the answer to your question of where this is going is: Absolutely nowhere. But I understand if it may take some time for you to b able to accept this. Wishing you all the best!

When I first posted here that was certainly the case. I was searching for a way to respond to him that would change the way he treated me. I have changed over the course of these past few months (become less reactive, learned to value myself), and part of that change was realizing that I wasn't seeing him clearly. I was creating a fantasy in my head about who he was.

I am glad you brought this up, because I can say with certainty that I do not want to pursue a relationship with him anymore  I don't want to be mean about letting go of him in the sense that I want to stay true to myself with my actions.

[Couscous]

When I first posted here that was certainly the case. I was searching for a way to respond to him that would change the way he treated me. I have changed over the course of these past few months (become less reactive, learned to value myself), and part of that change was realizing that I wasn't seeing him clearly. I was creating a fantasy in my head about who he was.

I am glad you brought this up, because I can say with certainty that I do not want to pursue a relationship with him anymore  I don't want to be mean about letting go of him in the sense that I want to stay true to myself with my actions.

Ah OK, thanks for the clarification. 

You may want to start a new thread on the Detaching board so that you can get responses in line with your current goal, which sounds like is how you can “detach with love”, to borrow an Al-Anon saying.