Crossing the Line - Exiting the Theme Park Entirely

[Couscous]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years.

Yes, the original researchers into the Dark Triad have expanded it recently to include sadism.

But some argue that the Dark Triad is really just psychopathy: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266085417_Theoretical_and_Empirical_Concerns_Regarding_the_Dark_Triad_as_a_Construct

[Rev]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years. Waiting for the Dark Pentad...

As Pook075 said, all of it is real and it's all [of] her.

My T referred to my ex as having a dis-integrated personality.

I echo this ... both statements

[OKrunch]

While I feel significantly calmer than I did on Wednesday,  I've done a lot of thinking, and I'm almost reluctant to mention this here, but I still want  a relationship with her.

Not this one or anything that resembles it, and I know the likelihood of achieving that is so minimally low. I don't know if it's just the leftover emotions of knowing that she is officially dating somebody else, but if I'm being honest I'm finding myself looking forward to a recycle attempt.

It makes me feel like I'm failing myself to feel that way. But at the same rate it makes me feel like I'm not giving up on her like I always said I would never do. I still believe in therapy I still believe in treatment, I believe that I am the "Primary" partner,  and as with the last break up, this guy doesn't matter. I don't view him as a threat, I know he's not going to be around for very long.

I find myself asking why I'm okay with wanting her back. There's a large part of me that knows exactly what I'm in for if that ever happens again. I know this cycle will repeat. I know that it's not my job or within my power to fix it for her, but I still believe that she will eventually get to a place of balance all by herself,  and when she does I want her to know that I never gave up on her.



I know that's probably backwards thinking, but it's just me being honest in my journaling.

[OKrunch]

It seems like borderlines tend to rush into new relationships because they feel like they need to be ahead of the game. They need to do everything faster than you in the breakup. Move on, find somebody else. Just an observation.

They gotta maintain that image.

[tina7868]

While I feel significantly calmer than I did on Wednesday,  I've done a lot of thinking, and I'm almost reluctant to mention this here, but I still want  a relationship with her.

Not this one or anything that resembles it, and I know the likelihood of achieving that is so minimally low. I don't know if it's just the leftover emotions of knowing that she is officially dating somebody else, but if I'm being honest I'm finding myself looking forward to a recycle attempt.

It makes me feel like I'm failing myself to feel that way. But at the same rate it makes me feel like I'm not giving up on her like I always said I would never do. I still believe in therapy I still believe in treatment, I believe that I am the "Primary" partner,  and as with the last break up, this guy doesn't matter. I don't view him as a threat, I know he's not going to be around for very long.

I find myself asking why I'm okay with wanting her back. There's a large part of me that knows exactly what I'm in for if that ever happens again. I know this cycle will repeat. I know that it's not my job or within my power to fix it for her, but I still believe that she will eventually get to a place of balance all by herself,  and when she does I want her to know that I never gave up on her.

I know that's probably backwards thinking, but it's just me being honest in my journaling.

It's so much more fruitful to be honest with yourself. Although we don't have control over external circumstances, we can create a space of inner peace through acceptance of our present moment experience. And from that space, there is possibility of change and moving forward, and of making decisions based on your truth.

You can view the same experience through different lenses. You can embrace a growth mindset, as in working on developping, evolving and expanding yourself. You mention you wouldn't want a future relationship with her to resemble this one. What version of you would create change in the dynamic?

You can't control what the future holds, but you can go inwards and grow, which will elevate your life regardless of how things pan out with your ex.

[jaded7]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years. Waiting for the Dark Pentad...

As Pook075 said, all of it is real and it's all [of] her.

My T referred to my ex as having a dis-integrated personality.

My therapist said the the EXACT same thing about my ex. "She's not integrated." And, "she is very, very abusive".

[OKrunch]

You mention you wouldn't want a future relationship with her to resemble this one. What version of you would create change in the dynamic?

No I would want it to be mutual, communicative, and empathetic. It would need paitence, and fair treatment.

I have been working on and making great strides in my temper. Im a yeller, and she and I have had specific talks about how that is a trigger, and it's bad for the kids.
The version of me that would create change in the dynamic?
Better at maintaining my boundaries without causing conflict in doing so.
Continued improvment on my anger.
Being more productive at home, both with my recreational activities and with household tasks.
Improve my budget, diet, excersize, and focus on how im spending time with the kids more.
In short, All things im going to be doing anyway.
Without her around. Her loss.

[Couscous]

She might be especially sensitive to the whole temper and yelling thing, especially if she had an abusive childhood. Maybe it’s even a deal-breaker for her, in spite of how much attraction you have for each other and how compatible you may be in terms of interests, etc.

But I feel for you, and do hope that you will eventually be able to find the love and happiness that you are seeking. I wish you all the best.

[tina7868]

The version of me that would create change in the dynamic?
Better at maintaining my boundaries without causing conflict in doing so.
Continued improvment on my anger.
Being more productive at home, both with my recreational activities and with household tasks.
Improve my budget, diet, excersize, and focus on how im spending time with the kids more.

These are all admirable goals.

Here is a perspective that helped me immensely: people come into your life for a reason. Even a ´difficult´ relationship has meaning to it, because of the lessons that are learned and the motivation that can be gained to change for the better. You can't control what the future holds when it comes to your ex, but you can control your own perspectives and attitudes. 


You've already come such a long way. Hang in there.

[OKrunch]

I've been trying to shave away the outer issues to find the core of what is keeping me connected. I think I've boiled it down to this

Doubt - I'm in doubt as to if I will ever get another actual chance at making this work.
Sometimes I don't want to, and be done done. At my core, I know Im not ready to give up on her, and not knowing if I'll ever get a chance to even find out is scary and painful. She's come back after a rebound before, but I don't know if it'll happen again, and I know the chances of it imploding again if we try. I never saw the last rebound as a threat for some reason, and I told her that then. I feel the same now.

[Pook075]

I've been trying to shave away the outer issues to find the core of what is keeping me connected. I think I've boiled it down to this

Doubt - I'm in doubt as to if I will ever get another actual chance at making this work.
Sometimes I don't want to, and be done done. At my core, I know Im not ready to give up on her, and not knowing if I'll ever get a chance to even find out is scary and painful. She's come back after a rebound before, but I don't know if it'll happen again, and I know the chances of it imploding again if we try. I never saw the last rebound as a threat for some reason, and I told her that then. I feel the same now.

As I've told you before, my wife left about 8 months ago and never looked back.  First time we split up in 20 years.  Like you, I want to try to reconcile for the kids, the family, etc.  I do still love her.

At the same time though, I know that I've done everything possible to make it work.  I was supportive even when she was ugly, or when she said things that she can't remember saying.  I've stood by her this entire time and there's nothing more I can do.  To reconcile, she's going to have to want it...and then we could see if there's anything still there.

My point is that I am powerless to change this situation.  There's nothing I can do and I've accepted that.  She's on vacation right now with her parents, my daughter's family, and the guy's family she left me for.  It hurts, but again...there's not a thing I can do about it.  So I don't worry about it, I focus my mind and energy on other things.

The only way you can get her back at this point is by completely letting her go.  Your relationship is over, it's final, and you have to accept that.  There's no going back to what it once was, that reality is gone.  She directly told you that when she asked if you were okay talking to her when she was dating someone else.  It wasn't to hurt you, it was her saying that she wanted to talk to you, but couldn't be with you now.  You couldn't handle that though because you were still stuck in the past, of what once was.

I feel for you man, I really do.  At this stage though, she's no longer hurting you...you're hurting yourself because you can't accept that the old relationship is over.  It sucks, it's horrible, so don't think I'm judging you here.  I'm in the exact same situation.  But the only way I'm getting back with my wife is by her loving me for me the right way, something that she hasn't been capable of for years now.

Why?  Because she broke my heart and I had to find myself again.  What I found was a pretty awesome guy that has a love for this world and a lot of things in it.  I love her, always will, but I don't need her to be me.  I'm just fine being alone or with someone else.  It's impossible to get to that place though when you're focused on the past, on what was.

Let it go, my friend, and stop giving her power in your life.  She's just not worth all the pain and agony that you're still carrying.  If you're ever to reconcile, it has to be something completely new where you both have a new perspective on life.  You can't get there though while focusing on the past.  The past is dead, let it go.

[OKrunch]

I'm not contacting her anymore, and I'm journaling here like others have told me to do. You seem to be frustrated with my choice of topic and my choice of outlook. Sorry for that .

It is dead and I'm aware of that. It's the end of a chapter, or a book in a series.

I'm not reaching out and have said more than once I'm not expecting her to. Am I not allowed to WANT otherwise?

I understand the rational difference between what I feel and want versus what is logical action or inaction.


I've outlined what I would need to actually have a functional relationship, as well as my awareness that it's highly unlikely.

As far as letting it go?
I am, piece by piece, and I'll only let go of all of it when I'm good and ready. Until then, I'll continue to shave away at the questions and thoughts that come to mind that help me to find the peace and understanding I require to put this to bed for myself and move on, as you suggest.
I can't just drop a thing. I need to understand it as best I can.

Just because I continue to have thoughts and questions doesn't mean I'm not moving forward.
Alone.

[OKrunch]

Basically, every intuitive bone in my body tells me this is not a finished story, and it's the waiting game that's killing me.
At this point I'd LIKE it to be over, but every fiber of my being tells me it isn't.

[OKrunch]

I don't think I'm gonna get any recycling. Ever again.
My entire family has been scrubbed from social media. Every photo and memory. Every connection is severed.
I'll probably be blocked forever, all for the highly terrible crime of asking her to marry me.

Low point today.

[Pook075]

I'm not contacting her anymore, and I'm journaling here like others have told me to do. You seem to be frustrated with my choice of topic and my choice of outlook. Sorry for that .

Not all all, my friend, I just hate to see you hurting and unable to let it go.

[OKrunch]

That's just it.
I can't let go.

I told her "losing you to someone else is my biggest fear" and she knows it.
I still have hope. But it's fading, and that feels like it's killing me.
I still miss her, even after all the things she's done to hurt me.
I still love her because I still believe that this isn't the real her.

For a LONG TIME I doubted my intuition. It's had proven itself accurate too many times to ignore now. I know it, and I trust it.
Just like I felt "the show was going to drop" two weeks ago, and it did.
I still feel this isnt done.
And it's not because I don't want it to be.
If I could make this all stop and lose all my feelings for her, I would. It would hurt less.
I want this to stop.
That said, I feel in my intuitive bones this isn't done yet.

Right now, I don't have a part to play. I need to find myself while she does the same.
Time may be the final nail that truly drives us apart, who knows. Maybe if she ever talks to me again, which to my great pain, I'm seriously beginning to doubt, I will truly have moved in by then. If that is the only chapter to the book that remains, then so be it. At least A chapter yet still remains though, of that I am certain.

[Pook075]

Right now, I don't have a part to play. I need to find myself while she does the same.

Time may be the final nail that truly drives us apart, who knows.

You do have a part to play though because it's your life.  Your part is moving on and finding happiness that's not tied to her.  Join a bowling league.  Party in Vegas next weekend.  Go to a rock concert.  I don't know you or your hobbies, but you have to get out there and live.

Maybe you're right, maybe you haven't seen the final chapter yet.  But by focusing on self-care and healing, you have a chance to be the best version of yourself if that next chapter ever comes.  That's what I meant in the earlier post...moving on without her is the only way you could ever get her back with everything you want.

[OKrunch]

You do have a part to play though because it's your life.  Your part is moving on and finding happiness that's not tied to her.  Join a bowling league.  Party in Vegas next weekend.  Go to a rock concert.  I don't know you or your hobbies, but you have to get out there and live.

Maybe you're right, maybe you haven't seen the final chapter yet.  But by focusing on self-care and healing, you have a chance to be the best version of yourself if that next chapter ever comes.  That's what I meant in the earlier post...moving on without her is the only way you could ever get her back with everything you want.

That's pretty much where Im at after days of re-tilled emotion and a metric eff ton of inward looking.
As I've said, my spiritual views are very elemental based. I need to cleanse myself in a proper river. Barring that for now, I just took a long hot shower and got my "flowing water" in that way.

Yes, I agree, when you boil anything down to post breakup psychology, BPD or not. Whether you want to reconcile or not, the same things are at the core of healing.
Social life
Improvement in fitness
New healthy habits and hobbies
Growth.

No matter what happens in the next 1,3,6,12,24 months, I'll be a stronger, more attractive me.

[Pook075]

That's pretty much where Im at after days of re-tilled emotion and a metric eff ton of inward looking.
As I've said, my spiritual views are very elemental based. I need to cleanse myself in a proper river. Barring that for now, I just took a long hot shower and got my "flowing water" in that way.

Yes, I agree, when you boil anything down to post breakup psychology, BPD or not. Whether you want to reconcile or not, the same things are at the core of healing.
Social life
Improvement in fitness
New healthy habits and hobbies
Growth.

No matter what happens in the next 1,3,6,12,24 months, I'll be a stronger, more attractive me.

My spiritual views are Bible-based, and I couldn't help but think of your 'cleanse' being similar to a Baptism.  I heard a pastor recently say, "The person who's left you is not meant to be in this season of your life.  If they were, God wouldn't have let them leave."

Although you're not a believer, I would guess the universe is trying to tell you the same thing.  Let her go.  Renew.

[OKrunch]

My spiritual views are Bible-based, and I couldn't help but think of your 'cleanse' being similar to a Baptism.  I heard a pastor recently say, "The person who's left you is not meant to be in this season of your life.  If they were, God wouldn't have let them leave."

Although you're not a believer, I would guess the universe is trying to tell you the same thing.  Let her go.  Renew.

For my beliefs, each person has a pillar of light, or their soul.
As we go through life and meet people, and become close to people, our pillars intertwine and emmesh.
These pillars can split again, but are never the same afterwards.
The connection never truly fades, and when The Universe is aligned right, they come back together when theyre supposed to.
This happens with friends, lovers, even family.

Long story short: "If you love them, let them go, and if its meant to be, they will return"
If not, then we will go from there, and time and fate will move us both where it is supposed to.

[OKrunch]

So I've found, mornings are hardest..
It's the first thing I think of.
Woke this morning thinking about the fact that they're almost certainly wrapped up in bed together.

I went over old conversations last night and saw soo many examples of her crazy making madness, and yet I'd still rather deal with that than be without her.

[cranmango]

I hear you, friend. Mornings are hard for me, too. Nine months out now, and I still dream about my ex. She’s the first thing I think of in the morning. It takes me a good half hour most days to reset my mind, to regain perspective. It’s still hard, but not as hard as it was.

You’re moving soon, right? I hope that’s a chance to create new morning routines in a new environment. One day at a time.

[OKrunch]

I hear you, friend. Mornings are hard for me, too. Nine months out now, and I still dream about my ex. She’s the first thing I think of in the morning. It takes me a good half hour most days to reset my mind, to regain perspective. It’s still hard, but not as hard as it was.

You’re moving soon, right? I hope that’s a chance to create new morning routines in a new environment. One day at a time.

Yes, this weekend, thats exactly the plan.
But ever since she rubbed the relationship in my face Ive been plauged with thoughts of them wrapped up in bed, laughing at movies, playing with MY dogs.
Its freaking killing me, i feel like I did back in October when the wound was fresh. I am like a pendulum between anger and sadness right now.
Is this literally withdrawal?
I didnt feel this rotten when we were spurattically talking and she was keeping me at arms length, but i must have still thought there was hope then, and it was still giving me a dopamine whack.

I am strongly beginning to feel like she is forever done, there will be no recycle, no mental health, and she will just forget i exist and keep living the way she does.
We broke up 2 days after the 2 year anniversary of her grandmothers death, the same event that was the catalyst for our breakup last time.
This May 7th will be the 2 year anniversary of her grandFATHER passing, which is something that actually started us coming back togeather last time.

Regardless, that above is all pointless mind reading attempts.

I Know time will heal this, I have been down that path before.
The backsliding has really made me frustrated with myself,
and boy do I wish i could just fast forward to June.

She. Is. Dead. And. Gone. FOREVER.

[cranmango]

Those thoughts of your ex and the new partner are incredibly painful. I still get those thoughts of my ex often. What helps me is to try and balance them out with other thoughts. I imagine some of the most awful moments that I had with my ex—the bitter fights, the most hurtful things she said and did—and I imagine her having moments like that with her new partner.

Her new relationship won’t be all sunshine and roses. There will be pain and ugliness and hurt, too. Those parts won’t happen in public, and they won’t make it into social media. But they will happen.

You’ve got some milestones coming up in May that will be a challenge, just like the birthday was recently. You have time to prepare your defenses.

[OKrunch]

I imagine some of the most awful moments that I had with my ex—the bitter fights, the most hurtful things she said and did—and I imagine her having moments like that with her new partner.

Her new relationship won’t be all sunshine and roses. There will be pain and ugliness and hurt, too. Those parts won’t happen in public, and they won’t make it into social media. But they will happen.

You’ve got some milestones coming up in May that will be a challenge, just like the birthday was recently. You have time to prepare your defenses.

These are the things i tell myself also.

I acutally found some particularly vile snippets of old conversation (from Jan 2022, during a big dysregulation episode)
that i tucked away to use as reminders of how hurtful she can be.
I was caring, paitent, and supportive the entire convo, and she was viscious and pessimisstic.

I know the fear that "the new relationship will be all roses and ducklings" is my own mind fooling me, ive literally seen this not work before.

im trying to get meds, but no insurance is a thing.

[Rev]

I actually found some particularly vile snippets of old conversation (from Jan 2022, during a big dysregulation episode) that I tucked away to use as reminders of how hurtful she can be.

I was caring, patient, and supportive the entire convo, and she was vicious and pessimistic.

I know the fear that "the new relationship will be all roses and ducklings" is my own mind fooling me, I've literally seen this not work before.

I did similar things too - I found these things helpful in making it easier to remind myself not to A) blame myself B) Idealize the relationship C) stay focused on my healing.

I actually found that I was going to ruminate, at least I could ruminate on stuff that was moving me in a direction I wanted to go rather than staying stuck in negative self talk.  

It took effort for sure and not every day was easy. Shoot some days I would text her by accident on messenger and then need to erase the emoji and try to pretend like nothing happened. I felt so exposed in those early days.

And now coming on four years later, the memory that people like my ex exist and can do great harm lies in the forefront of my mind. But the vigilance I once felt has gone and the details of what it was like to live with her are vague - almost like one of the vacations that are memorable only because they are so forgettable.

Hope that helps.

Hope the venting is helping too.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[OKrunch]

I feel like a loser sitting here wishing and hoping the rebound will fail.
Probably exactly how she wants me feeling.

6 days of "Camper Isolation" remaining.

[SinisterComplex]

I feel like a loser sitting here wishing and hoping the rebound will fail.
Probably exactly how she wants me feeling.

6 days of "Camper Isolation" remaining.

Why do you feel like a loser? Explain this...

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Why do you feel like a loser? Explain this...

Because I have been missing her, being kind to her, and being supportive when she was stressing out and we were still in touch.
I keep being nice, and supportive, and basically (without acutally saying it) telling her I am here, available and basically waiting. I am sure that is what all of my NC Mess ups have communicated.

I feel like a loser because I have been being told for months by you all, my therapist, my close family and friends, to give up, walk away, stop thinking about it and stop trying to figure her out, and keep on finding shreds of hope.

And all she has done has messed with my head, villified me, pushed me away, Kicked me and my 8 year old son out on the the streets TWICE (even though i couldve fought back on the Lease during the first breakup and DIDNT BECUASE I DIDNT WANT TO UPSET HER).

I feel like a loser because i cant move on. I cant get over her, i cant stop being in pain and jealous about the replacement/rebound.

I feel like i have made zero progress, i have zero power, and she doesnt care about any of it.
Is "Happily" living her life, the life we built together. With OUR dogs in OUR house.
I get nothing but dirt, bile and mistreatment, and yet im still pining over her.

That is why i Know i am a loser. Because I am losing. I have lost.

[Pook075]

Because I have been missing her, being kind to her, and being supportive when she was stressing out and we were still in touch.
I keep being nice, and supportive, and basically (without acutally saying it) telling her I am here, available and basically waiting. I am sure that is what all of my NC Mess ups have communicated.

I feel like a loser because I have been being told for months by you all, my therapist, my close family and friends, to give up, walk away, stop thinking about it and stop trying to figure her out, and keep on finding shreds of hope.

That makes you a good person, not a loser.

A loser would have cussed her out, cheated on her, lived off her for support, degraded her constantly, etc.  That's what a loser does.  You loved her and stood beside her, even when she went flippin' nuts on you and walked away.

Again, that's not a loser.  It's a guy in love with a broken heart.