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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Why do BPD's betray us nons?  (Read 816 times)
Frank Talk
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2006, 12:11:20 AM »

Thanks JMR,

That sums up exactly how it was and why I can't come to anything other than the BPD conclusion and why I know I can't ever accept her back if she comes looking for me again.

I feel pretty dumb as now after about 18 years I realise that aprevious gf must have been BPD (I strongly noticed similarities with the relationship with recent x) My previous had been sexually molested as a child. When onabout the 6th time we split up she met a young guy and got married to him within months - she was on an extended honeymoon when I got a letter from her saying she had made a big mistake and wanted to be with me. She arrived back, sent her young husband away and reconnected with me. We held off out of respect and then a ridiculous danc e was played out over 12 months invloving her, her husband, theur families and me - niether of us ended up with her. She met someone else. had a child and the last I heard she was a single mum. Oh why didn't I learn - that was a lot of people who got burnt. We silly romantic humans... .

Frank Talk
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keithaj
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2006, 12:31:15 AM »

I sometime wonder where the betrayal comes from those in a CHOSEN RELATIONSHIP... .

I think in the end, us nons in choosen relationships betray ourselves... .

We let ourselves be in these dysfunctional relationships... .We put up with behavior that no sane person should stand... .

That is not to excuse the behavior of people with BPD... .

However, think it is wise to turn the magnifying glass back onto ourselves and do some hard self examination... .

It is easy to blame someone else for all that is wrong (we should all know that since we have dealt with loved ones with BPD)... .

True enlightenment comes from self examination... .  Why did we allow ourselves to be part of these sick relationships... .

I betrayed myself for years staying in a horrible relationship with someone with BPD... .

I must own my choices... .and make sure I NEVER make choices like that again... .

Only then, will I be true to myself... .
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Frank Talk
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« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2006, 12:38:34 AM »

amen Keith... .amen!

Ok so twice in a life... .there won't be a third. You are bang on!

Halleluiah brother

Frank Talk (and that was frank talk Keith... .if you get my drift)
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JMR
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« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2006, 08:42:37 AM »

I totally agree, keith, that the most important question is to discover why we betrayed ourselves, and how to change it; but I find that part of the process for me is learning to accept the reality of the situation, by understanding a bit more about why my x did what she did.  I stayed with the situation in part because I completely misunderstood what was going on.  I may have "wanted" to misunderstand in some sense, but I truly didn't get it, and couldn't accept what I couldn't accurately see.
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lasagna
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2006, 12:02:39 PM »

JMR, your last post reflects my past feelings about a year ago. It is a huge hurdle to accept that you will never understand why a borderline does what they do to hurt us. There is no explanation. You would have to get into the BPD's mind to understand, and that is not a place you want to go.

I wish you peace as you struggle with this dilemma. I never, ever thought I'd cross to the other side of the road. But I did and I don't want to look back. Wishing you well.
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Magnum
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2006, 01:08:00 PM »

Hi Lasagna,

I am not sure that that we will never know what goes on in their heads. Maybe not the details. But isn't obvious that so many people here experience the same. In the literature about BPD's their is so much about them being afraid off intimacy... .fear of abandonment/engulfment.

Why don't we just believe and accept that this is the case instead of saying the BPD-behavior is a mystery? Is it really a mystery or is it too obvious in the end when we look at all the stories here?

To me the proof in the experiences of lot of nons here is overwhelming. It is like a blueprint you can put over a lot of the stories. The BPD gets very close... .making extremely romantic statements... .marriagetalk etc... .then they push us away.

Isn't clear what happens? Or am I wrong?

Not that it makes it much easier for us nons.

Just my thoughts.

Magnum



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lasagna
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2006, 02:32:50 PM »

Magnum;I totally get your point. Let me clarify what I meant to say.

yes, there are several "themes" that describe a BPD. No doubt. It certainly does help to see this for what it is. I was referring to the "details" as you mentioned.

Maybe my post was a reaction to something recently done by my BPDdaughter. She reacted in an odd manner and I was trying to wrack my brain to make sense of it. It didn't fit into any of the usual characterizations. Hence, my reaction was to not try to get into her head.

I am not trying to be divisive. All our posts, taken collectively, are a tremendous source of support to me. the universality of our experiences validates my experience. If I haven't clarified this enough, I hope you will let me know.

As a clinical nurse specialist, I used to see what diagnostic criteria were met by different  psych patients.

But I still denied all the BPD symptomatology in my own daughter. Just wishful thinking that it would never happen to me.
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Frank Talk
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« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2006, 03:45:03 PM »

Don't they just have two very strong competing 'personalities' to suit the fear of abandonment/engulfment.

To fight the fear of abandonment they come on all very strong with their "I love you"s and "let's get married" stuff and all the jealousy and controlling stuff about what we do, where we've been and who we can and cannot see. And then on the other hand to fight their fear of engulfment they do all that pushing away stuff - controlling when we can and can't visit, removing our items of clothing and other posessions from their homes each time we go 'home' or wherever (as if we won't come back again or they don't want us back) - and in the end they are totally running this ongoing battle between the two extremes - making it impossible for us nons to get the balance right. I certainly never felt like I got the balance right and was always on the back foot with that little pit in my stomach trying to tell me that I never would - so I might as well quit while I was ahead. I suppose I eventually did - although it still all hurts very much.

Frank Talk

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lasagna
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« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2006, 03:53:20 PM »

Frank, yes there is a duality to their personality. that is why I have felt like I am a yo-yo on a string. Pull me close, then push me away.
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JMR
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« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2006, 05:16:46 PM »

Excerpt
Why don't we just believe and accept that this is the case instead of saying the BPD-behavior is a mystery? Is it really a mystery or is it too obvious in the end when we look at all the stories here?



I agree with you, Magnum, it is simple.  We create a "mystery" because we don't want to accept the answers. Why do they betray us?  For the same reason anyone would -- they have concluded we betrayed them, and have nothing to offer that they want.  It's pretty much why we initiate NC, which to them may feel like betrayal. I'm not saying they're right in their beliefs or that we're wrong, but the beliefs on both sides (whether accurate or not) are similar.

What takes so long, for me at least, is learning to emotionally accept what I "know" -- that they just don't want us (at least on any consistent basis), because they  don't trust us, are sure we don't love them, and never will.  We can read about all these qualities, and others, that characterize someone with BPD, yet somehow imagine that it doesn't apply to their relationship with us.  Some will say it's because of our egos, and our "fixer" tendencies, which no doubt is partly true.  But there are, more universal reasons:  We can't accept their distorted perceptions about something we know so well (our feelings), and most important, accepting the explanations means accepting a very big loss, and the pain that goes with it.  And that's what I ran from.

I look at it this way:  every person diagnosed with a rapid, terminal illness like lung cancer, for example, initially denies what is happening, attempts to come up with alternative explanations and the like.  If you talked to the same person, a day before the diagnosis, they would acknowledge with no particular emotion that such illnesses strike people all the time, and it could happen to them. They understand the facts completely. Or so it seems.  They understand the facts in an abstract way, the way we all understand we will die some day. Yet we live each day as if life goes on forever.

Needless to say, a person just diagnosed with lung cancer won't find acceptance or reasurance in having a friend remind them that they knew all along it was possible that they, or anyone, could die anytime. What's the big mystery? They knew the facts, but never really understood the facts as applied to them, where the "understanding" includes an emotional component as well as an intellectual one.

Many of us "understood" the basics of BPD, at some point, but believed it wasn't happening to us, that our relationship would somehow defy the odds, like death, and just live forever.  It's not crazy.  It's how people react to terrible pain and loss.
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the lucky one
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« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2006, 05:24:38 PM »

I think that just about wraps it up JMR your insight is 100% :'(
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bewildered2
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2006, 05:57:39 AM »

the funny thing about all this is that the whole world is looking for love, and yet, these crazy borderlines get it from some of the nicest people around (here at bpdfamily), and yet they can't see it. their loss.

to be honest, they don't deserve any of us. we nons try and try and try and all we get is abusive hurtful behaviour in return.

miss them? we're all a little crazy to do so, but our craziness is transient and it will pass. theirs will not.

these people are damaged goods, damaged beyond repair. we're addicted to them, but with some effort and time that will pass to.

hang in there everybody. it is a tough road to negotiate but well worth the effort.

leave them to their own misguided paths to elusive happiness.  they're mentally ill and there is no cure for those who won't even admit they are ill.

b2   
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Jeffree
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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2006, 07:07:59 AM »

B2,

Well put.

However, I believe if there is such a thing as Karma that the moment the BPD/NPD actually realizes the mistake(s) he/she made in abusing and abandoning us, there will be more pain in that one instant than all the days we've spent suffering in the aftermath combined.

They can run, run, and run, but they cannot hide. We all face our maker in the end, and they're just putting off the inevitable while we are dealing with it now.

--J
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Magnum
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« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2006, 11:43:01 AM »

B2 and Jeffree and everyone else,

Yes well put. I agree. Although I am afraid that the real sick BPD/NPD will not really feel what they are doing to us. They can sense the destruction in their lives and see it looking back but they will put the blame on us. They don't feel comfertable with things that happened it but put it aside quite easily with denial and all their mechanisms and put the blame on us. They are poor souls who are left alone by us nons. They turn it all around. My ex for instance feels that he is the victim in the end and everything happens to him. Poor him. He is so dissapointed that it didn't work out between him and me? While in reality he destroyed evrything!This is excactly while they are sick in the first place. So I think I have less hope than you guys.

This makes the grieving even harder to know he will not feel a thing. I barely sleep at night feel miserable but he is happy partying with the new love of his life who will make him happy.

I know it's all temporary and he is not able to give his new gf mature and lasting love but it still hurts that I am the only one grieving over the loss.

Magnum
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Jeffree
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« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2006, 01:05:42 PM »

Magnum,

This makes the grieving even harder to know he will not feel a thing. I barely sleep at night feel miserable but he is happy partying with the new love of his life who will make him happy.

I do not believe it's possible for one to not feel on one hand, but to feel happy on the other.

I understand your need to mourn, but why would you want to be with someone who "will not feel a thing" over the ending of his relationship with you. There's nothing you could have done to make him feel any differently, either.

And, again, I highly doubt he is feeling happy--temporarily euphoric, maybe--but "happy?" No way. That's what makes BPD/NPDs the way they are. They do not have the capacity to feel anything good for any extended period of time. Then they move on to the next.

--J
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Magnum
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« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2006, 03:40:55 PM »

Hi Jeffree,

Don't get me wrong. I sure don't want to be with him anymore after what he did. That's for sure. I don't want him to feel different. Nobody in my life breaks up over the phone. Then it is totally over from my part aswell. Don't want to be treated this way. Only the last "endingpart" really showed me how severely x-x-x-xed up he is. Before I thought he was making progress but now I think he just tried to please me. He is really a hardcore  very x-x-x-xed up borderliner. He will keep on destroying and manipulating every good thing in his life. So I am quite content that the big terminator is "gone" from my life. It is only the cleaning up of the horrible things that happened in my life that needs to be done now by myself. 

You are probably right he will not feel happy... .but he isn't grieving over the fact that our relationship is over that's for sure.He blocked it out. He will probably have an outburst of emotions because of the blocking pushing away of these emotions somewhere the coming weeks. He builds up the tension till he can't stand it much longer... .then start to drink again. Than maybe do something agressiv... .kick in a cafewindow... .etc. to get rid of the tension and frustration he feels. But he will not truely feel his feelings simply because he can't handle these feelings without acting out.

Beyond repair.

I will have to stay far away from him. No friendship. Nothing. Refuse all contact. Not respond to calls emails etc. No Contact.

He wrote me an email the day after being very cold to me while telling me he had a new gf. This email was the extreme opposite telling me he missed me tremenduosly... .and had found it terribly hard to see me... .this is why he was so cold... .blahblah... .I never responded to the email. I don't trust him anymore. Not a word.

Magnum
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Changingman
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« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2013, 12:50:28 PM »

What is there to love? If they dispise themselves. What does it mean if one object is the same as another object. If you have no empathy, moral compass, what do the authentic feelings of another mean... .? A newspaper headline, an obituary, a cartoon, a typo in the paper
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Changingman
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« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2013, 01:24:01 PM »

This makes the grieving even harder to know he will not feel a thing. I barely sleep at night feel miserable but he is happy partying with the new love of his life who will make him happy.

I do not believe it's possible for one to not feel on one hand, but to feel happy on the other.

I think our ideas and notions of happy, sad, real, unreal, truth, lies, betrayal, loyalty (wow, not in their vocabulary ) is so messed up until we accept all if them is a lie we can't understand close the book. I'm not sure if they diserve the respect given to human beings. Bless them x
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Changingman
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« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2013, 03:19:02 PM »

Part of it is psychological, unconscious pay-back for hurt that they have felt in the past.

Part of it is a defense mechanism of preventing hurt in themselves, as when a person who feels homosexual urges but has been taught that homosexuality is horrible will lash out at gay people.

Part of it is that secrecy and betrayal are fun.  It gets the heart beating fast.

Part of it is that it feels good to hurt someone because it shows that you are powerful and cared about.

Part of it is unconscious recapitulation of past transgressions by their parents.  They are re-living the world that they knew.  It's like a criminal returning to the scene of the crime.

Part of it is just to do the action that they find fun, and the betrayal is a side effect.  They have poor impulse control and will simply act on their feelings at the moment.  If you get betrayed by it, that's just the way it is.  They can rationalize it by painting you black, for example.


Yes, I felt horribly betrayed.  My ex specializes in betrayal.  I believe she does it for many of the reasons I listed above, but her main reason seems to be that it is titillating and fun.  She has said that, and I believe her.  Betrayal is fun.

Jesus, this is the moment between feeling sorry for them and just they are the stinkiest people you've ever met, I think borderline is a great term. Between the worst person you've ever met and someone else, between love and hate, black and white, between victim and abuser, push and pull, fear of abandonment and attachment, friend and enemy, Stink up the place with their chaos.
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Changingman
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« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2013, 04:00:52 PM »

It really angers me still that therapists talk of the saddess of BPD, I'm not so sure. I think they may push people into ovens with no remorse. This is heavy but I'm thinking this pack of empathy May even be the facilitators off " evil "  .  I read an article About the nature of religion, black and white attitude, revenge, lack of remorse for our fellow brothers and sisters etc. scary really.
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« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2013, 06:30:15 PM »

Why? Because we permit it.
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