Self reflection. Take a look. Take the test. What are your results?

[loki8447]

I seem to be on the edge of introvert and extrovert since I've come up INTJ and ENTJ. Normally INTJ.

[FinPublic]

I'm ENFP.

www.keirsey.com/4temps/champion.aspx

Champion.

Champions strive toward a kind of personal authenticity, and this intention always to be themselves is usually quite attractive to others. At the same time, Champions have outstanding intuitive powers and can tell what is going on inside of others, reading hidden emotions and giving special significance to words or actions. In fact, Champions are constantly scanning the social

I always wanted to be a public interest lawyer. Fight for kids who needed me. Instead put a huge amount of time into raising my kids as a single mom.

Then met my stbxH and fell in love in part because I thought I could use my ability to fight on his behalf. "Everyone was out to get him."

now I'm learning to fight on my behalf.

Sigh.

BC

[colonel]

INFJ and wow that's scarily accurate!

[my_memories]

For years, I was ENFP - but today, I got ENFJ?

I found that interesting, I thought my ENFP was pretty rock solid

[DeeEsse]

Just asked a friend with uNPD mom and uBPD dad... .and guess what: INFJ

[tryintogetby]

OK: can we take this experiment to OTHER forums we're members of, to get a comparison sample?  for example, take it to other forums that are relationally oriented (the goal is to relate to other people) and other forums that are geek-oriented (about a specific product, problem, solution, show, occupation (?) etc.) 

If we see a majority N on other forums, that may just mean that N's are more likely to be on forums.

If not... .then hmmm... .

[tryintogetby]

This is from the book "Please Understand Me" by Keirsey & Bates, on the MBTI:

"Although these [NF's] make up only about 12 percent of the general population... .their influence on the minds of the populace is massive, for most writers come from this group.  Novelists, dramatists, television writers, playwrights, journalists, poets, and biographers are almost exclusively NF's.  Technical and scientific writers tend to be NT's, but writers who wish to inspire and persuade, who produce literature, most often are NF's.  The questions which this group asks about the meaning of life, of their own lives, and what is significant for humankind, saturate fictional literature.  The theme of people in restless search of self runs through novel after novel, is voice by protagonist after protagonist, and is the source of agony in drama after drama." 

p. 61

[survivorof2]

Okay. I did something as an experiment. My original result was INFJ. I decided to take it as how I felt about myself while I was totally enmeshed with uBPD parents/family and being held hostage by them for over a decade. It was interesting in that while I took the test, I realized how in denial I was about who I really was then and what I really liked and didn't like and how I had NO freedom to be myself. The biggest thing I realized is how I didn't want to admit any weakness as I was told (projected upon) what my weaknesses were daily and sometimes hourly and by the minute. It wasn't safe to admit weakness around the uBPD family.

The experiment result of how I USED to think while with uBPD family: ESTJ  ?

I wonder if the results will continue to change as I continue to heal and redefine myself? Anybody else wonder that?

[waybird]

Thank you, stellaris, for the statistical breakdown.  What fabulous work!

survivorof2:  It is interesting that you mention your shift from "S" to "N."  About 12 or so years ago, when I was deeply enmeshed with my parents, I scored an ISTJ on this test.  Now, and consistantly for many years after I broke away from parents, I have scored an INTJ.  Maybe there is something about the "N" and the process one goes through to manage and find oneself apart from a BPD parent.  Stellaris alluded to this idea earlier.

[Claire]

I like Skip's stats    Really intriguing... .

Someone asked if anyone knew the meyers-briggs type of their BPD relation.  BPDMom is INFJ like me, and I think it's probably accurate (or was accurate at the time several years ago).  I'd previously taken that to mean that I was destined to become her because we have the same personality ... . But now I'm really excited to hear that a bunch of you guys have the same personality and you're wonderful and normal!

[Sara]

This is the first time I've seen this thread because, although I've been a member of bpdfamily.com since last year, this is the first time I've ever looked at this forum.

I am INFJ also. 

Since INFJ's are only 1%-2% in the total population, the abundance of them here--on this board--is obviously unexpected to me and I'm going to be doing much thinking about this in the future.

Great thread, and very possibly truly significant.

Thank you, justwannagetalong!

[Bunny]

ISTJ, although the S is very weak.

People who don't know me well are surprised I'm an introvert but after growing up with a BPD you get good at faking!

[geekgirl]

INTJ or INFJ, depending on the context and the time of day.

Interesting question!  I wonder if there is any statistical significance here?  We're a bit of a self-selecting population -- people who are connected to BPD's, aware of what the problem is, and trying to do something to understand and deal with the problem.  And does our connection with BPDs suppress certain personality traits and enhance others so we test similarly?  Or do our similar underlying personality traits help us to reach the point where we're dealing with the problem directly by all being here?

[waybird]

And does our connection with BPDs suppress certain personality traits and enhance others so we test similarly?  Or do our similar underlying personality traits help us to reach the point where we're dealing with the problem directly by all being here?

Ah, music to my ears, geekgirl.  These sound like the wonderful questions that an INTJ like me would ask! 

[geekgirl]

Ah, music to my ears, geekgirl.  These sound like the wonderful questions that an INTJ like me would ask!

The INTJ force is strong in my BDPFamily! 

I like Bunny's speculations.  I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on something like this?

[boarderchic]

I've looked at the statistics for our results.  The only statistically significant results are those for the INFJ's and INTJ's.  The remaining results are not statistically significant.  This means that if we were to take a random sample from the population that is the same size as the sample here, we could reasonably expect similar results for all the Myer's Briggs categories except INFJ and INTJ.  Part of this is the relatively small sample size.  For example, ENTJ's are only 1.8% of the population according to Wikipedia, but 5.7% of respondents here are ENTJ.  This seems like it would be significant.  But it's actually not.  If we had a random sample of the same size, instead of a bpdfamily.com sample, this would be a reasonable result even though it is nearly 3x greater than the percent of ENTJ's in the population.  This is a function of the small sample size - you can think of it as the statistics allowing greater variability around a population average when you have a small sample size, to take into account coincidence. 

Of course, this doesn't explain WHY these are over-represented categories.  People that post in forums might be more likely to be INFJ/INTJ, or non-enmeshed children of BPD's might be more likely to have these types.  We'd need some general data on people that post in forums and on "enmeshed" relatives (particularly children) to start to figure that out.

[UKannie]

Of course, this doesn't explain WHY these are over-represented categories.  People that post in forums might be more likely to be INFJ/INTJ, or non-enmeshed children of BPD's might be more likely to have these types.  We'd need some general data on people that post in forums and on "enmeshed" relatives (particularly children) to start to figure that out.

and of course people who choose to respond to this particular thread might be expected to have some common characteristics... .same goes for people in general who choose to take the Myers Briggs Test out of curiousity

[eeyore]

I've looked at the statistics for our results.  The only statistically significant results are those for the INFJ's and INTJ's.  The remaining results are not statistically significant.  This means that if we were to take a random sample from the population that is the same size as the sample here, we could reasonably expect similar results for all the Myer's Briggs categories except INFJ and INTJ.  Part of this is the relatively small sample size.  For example, ENTJ's are only 1.8% of the population according to Wikipedia, but 5.7% of respondents here are ENTJ.  This seems like it would be significant.  But it's actually not.  If we had a random sample of the same size, instead of a bpdfamily.com sample, this would be a reasonable result even though it is nearly 3x greater than the percent of ENTJ's in the population.  This is a function of the small sample size - you can think of it as the statistics allowing greater variability around a population average when you have a small sample size, to take into account coincidence. 

Of course, this doesn't explain WHY these are over-represented categories.  People that post in forums might be more likely to be INFJ/INTJ, or non-enmeshed children of BPD's might be more likely to have these types.  We'd need some general data on people that post in forums and on "enmeshed" relatives (particularly children) to start to figure that out.

Did you mean to omit the ENFJ's?  Actually we have the next higher incidence of them and statistically they are not common either?

[boarderchic]

The results for ENFJ's are not statistically significant, for this small, non-controlled study here on bpdfamily

My counts may be different than yours (was trying not to double-count, or count types that people report of their relatives or some other person in their life... wanted the sample to be adult children of BPD) but I counted 2 ENFJ's reported here that represent 5.7% of the total reported types.  Compared to the population percentage of ENFJ's, which is 2.4%, this seems like a significant difference, right?  Percentage wise, there is a much higher percentage of ENFJ here than in the population.  But statistically, this is insignificant.  The easiest way for me to say it is that statistically, given what we know about the percentage of ENFJ's in the overall population, the result here could be a coincidence and have no relation whatsoever to being a survivor of a BPD parent.  On the other hand, it is highly unlikely that the results for INTJ's and INFJ's are not related to some specific characteristic shared by the people posting on this thread.  Whether that characteristic is "survivor of a BPD parent" or "likely to post in a forum" or "likely to post in this thread" or "likely to take Myer's briggs" is unclear because we don't have enough data.  In general, we need bigger sample sizes and more groups to make these kinds of scientifically supportable statements.

 

[boarderchic]

Apparently, we're not the only people who wonder if Myer's briggs type is correlated with mental illness.  I couldn't find anything on BPD, specifically, but there are a few studies on other mental illnesses.  HEre are the highlights:


Ref: Janowsky, D. et al.  (1997).  Myers-Briggs Type Indicator differences between major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder patients.  Biological Psychiatry.

Fifty-five patients (34 with Major Depressive Disorder and 21 with Major Depressive Disorder with Substance Abuse or Dependence) were compared to normative data in 55,309 people.

The 55 patients showed significantly more cases who were Introverted (I), Sensing (S), Feeling (F), and Perceiving (P) than did the normative control group. Patients with Major Depressive Disorder were significantly over-represented as ISFJ and ISFP four-factor combinations. When compared to the normative data, Bipolar Disorder patients were significantly more Perceiving and numerically more often Intuitive, as well as significantly more Introverted-Perceiving (IP), and Intuitive-Perceiving (NP), than were controls. Significant differences were noted between patients with Major Depressive Disorder and Bipolar patients. Bipolar Disorder patients were significantly more Intuitive (i.e. 55.5% vs 25.4%) and less Sensing, and more likely to be Intuitive-Perceiving (NP) types than were patients with Major Depressive Disorder. The patient subgroup with Major Depressive Disorder plus Substance Disorder was over-represented as ISTP, ISFP, and INFP types. They differed dramatically from patients with “Pure Substance Abuse,” who resembled the normative population in being predominantly extroverted, thinking and judging four-factor types.

Ref:Mendelsohn 1962 Personality differences between students who do and do not use a counseling facility.  J. of Counseling Psychology

"Compared to the nonclient Ss, the students who seek counseling score less toward the judging side, more toward the intuitive side, less toward the feeling side and more toward the introversion side of the respective dimensions."

Ref: Janowsky 1996 The Myers Briggs Type Indicator and psychiatric diagnosis

The Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is a Jungian based personality survey instrument, which is widely used in business, management, counseling, and educational circles. Its preference types correlate with the corresponding scales on the NEO-PI, which have been shown to be significantly genetically determined. Thus, the MBTI, if distinct in a given psychiatric diagnosis, may reflect underlying genetic/biologic variables. The MBTI divides individuals into eight preference types: Extroverted and Introverted, Sensing or Intuitive, Thinking or Feeling, and Judging or Perceiving. Application of the MBTI to clinical psychiatry has been virtually non-existent. In the current study, we evaluated a total of 123 psychiatric patients with a variety of diagnoses, and 17 outpatients with Social Phobia. All patients were assigned DSM II-R diagnoses. We especially focused on differences between Affective Disorder patients and others. We found that significantly higher numbers of patients with Major Depressive Disorder than in normative populations were introverted, sensing and feeling types. In contrast, Bipolar patients (most of whom were depressed), while similar to patients with Major Depression with respect to being introverted, feeling types, consisted predominantly of intuitive, as opposed to sensing types. In addition, patients who had both Major Depressive Disorder and Substance Abuse diagnoses had profiles which were very similar to patients who had Major Depressive Disorder alone. Also, we noted that Social Phobia patients showed extreme introversion, and were often judging types when compared to the Affective Disorder and Substance Abuse patients. The above findings may have implications for understanding the psychopathology of major mental disorders, and may have specific therapeutic and diagnostic implications.

[tryintogetby]

What *is* significant, though, is the "type" of person most often represented here.  The MBTI sub-divides the 16 personalities into 4 "types": NT, NF, SP, and SJ.  Those 4 types each have their own 4 sub-types.  So, an INFJ and ENFP are actually part of the same basic category, and have the same basic need to discover a "sense of self," but have different relationships to people and to planning. NT's, regardless of being I/E, or P/J, all hunger for "competence" or "mastery" in a set of skills.  *That* is what I believe is significant about our little representative sample. 

NF's only make up 12% of the population.  I don't know what it is for NT's but I believe it's actually *lower*.

[boarderchic]

Looking at the 4 sub-types, we can say the following about the statistical significance of the results:

The absence of ST and SF type is significant (they are underrepresented and it is likely not coincidence).

The presence of NF is significant (they are overrepresented and it is likely not coincidence).

Nothing can be said about NT's (incidentally, my type).  Based on the number of respondents and the % of NT's in the population, the result could be a coincidence - we could expect a similar result if we picked a random sample from the population.  We would NOT expect the same results for the other 3 sub-groups if we picked a random sample from the population.  

Note - I am commenting on the statistical significance of the results from a scientific perspective.  This is quantifiable and I've quantified it, although I'm not reporting those results for clarity's sake.  If anyone is interested, I could certainly explain the calculation used to draw these conclusions.  This is not a commentary on the personal significance you might take from this thread.  Only scientific, quantifiable, statistical significance.  Although for me, personal significance comes from scientific significance... can you tell I'm a scientist?  

From Wikipedia, I looked at the 16 types and put them in the 4 sub-groups for the following data:

------- ST SF NF NT

Population 30% 43% 16% 10%

bpdfamily.com 8% 10% 52% 30%

Of course, this all depends on the accuracy of Wikipedia.  I see different percentages reported here in the thread, e.g. 16% NF's, whereas I've calculated 52%.  Wikipedia has the following to say about their source:  

Estimated percentages of the 16 types in the American population using inferential statistics. The figures above are from a random sampling of 3009 people culled from a total pool of 16,000 using the 1998 MBTI Form M. The individuals whose form results were used in this random sampling were not provided with the data to verify or question their accuracy. But these numbers do provide a working base on which to build further understanding and development of the model as extrapolated to larger populations.

[waybird]

The 55 patients showed significantly more cases who were Introverted (I), Sensing (S), Feeling (F), and Perceiving (P) than did the normative control group

I find it fascinating that Janowsky's study shows more mental illness among ISFP, yet our bpdfamily study contains no ISFPs - at least not any reported ones in our sample.  The "S" seems fairly rare here, along with the "P."  Now, isn't that interesting?

[JGirl2]

I always come out ENFP  F and T are close but just slightly more F.

I even took a very extensive test on this at work (company paid a lot of money for the full battery of tests) many years ago because the director where I work thought it would really help people well together if they understood each other better.  I must of taken this test at least 40 times in the last 15 years and always have come out ENFP

I'm also green & Blue on the color test

[waybird]

Wow! Great summary. It would be great if those of us who are still in contact with our BPDs/uBPDs could find out their personality types.  I suspect their results would show an "S" and "P" tendency, although one lonely study doesn't prove anything.  Since I am NC, I cannot really just call up my mom and get these results; however, I am tempted to do so simply for the sake of knowledge.  

I suspect she would score high on the "P," but I would love to know for sure.

[Sara]

I finally took the test... .INFJ as well.  I guess the tendency is for the "bad" child of the BPD to be an INFJ.  Still say wish I could meet some of you... .would be interesting since we all seem so similar.

I read this earlier today.  Since I am INFJ, I've been thinking about it ever since. 

Was I the "bad" child? 

In truth, I was really a pretty superbly good child.  If someone outside of my family had been observing me as I grew up, they could have used me as the basis for an inspirational children's book about a kid who was doing--or trying to do, anyway--everything right.

But this doesn't at all answer the question which is: "Within my family, was I the 'bad' child?"  Upon reflection, I think the answer has to be "yes."

I never fit into my family; I was always the odd one out... .always, from the earliest I can remember.  The only person who was as odd as me was my (paternal) Grandma, and from everything I know now, she was clearly Asperger's all of her life.  I thought she was wonderful.  [Wherever you are right now, Grandma, I love you.  xoxox]  But obviously, since she came into the family as a full adult, regardless of how odd everyone else thought she was, she was never considered a "bad child."

Why was I "bad"?  Because I wasn't in my heart one of them.  In my heart (no matter how circumspect I was in expressing or not expressing my opinions) I disagreed with just about everything they believed in on so many different levels (morals, ethics, politics, ways of interacting with other people, mutual obligations with other people, thoughtfulness, consideration of others, the various hot button issues of their generation and mine, etc., etc., etc.).  My outer behavior was impeccable (most of the time   ).  When I expressed my views, it was mostly with all the sensitivity I could muster at whatever age I was at the time.  I was fearsomely conscientious about fulfilling whatever obligations I was responsible for fulfilling.  And I never did any of the "getting into trouble" things that most kids do when they reach adolescence.  As a teenager, I was what most parents would think was a dream child.   

But because I wasn't naturally one of them, I think they all (minus my Grandma and paternal Grandpa) would have easily agreed that I was indeed the "bad child."

And my sister (six years younger than me; my only sibling) would certainly and vehemently agree that I was the "bad child"! 

So I guess I was.   

Kinda funny, the things you can learn about yourself on an Internet message board. 

Thanks for the belated personal realization, everyone! 

   

[C12P21]

I am an INFJ. I graduated from a Human Services program while in the program we took the Meyers Briggs, almost one half of the class was INFJ-which explains our choice of profession.

A few good books to read "Please Understand Me" and "Human Dynamics" both helped me in understanding differences in personality and communications styles.

Fun stuff to think about, no doubt.

[Itza]

Someone on an unrelated messageboard linked this test which I took in May - INFJ.

I just took it an hour ago - INFJ.

[fleur d argent]

I read this earlier today.  Since I am INFJ, I've been thinking about it ever since.  

Was I the "bad" child?  

In truth, I was really a pretty superbly good child.  If someone outside of my family had been observing me as I grew up, they could have used me as the basis for an inspirational children's book about a kid who was doing--or trying to do, anyway--everything right.

But this doesn't at all answer the question which is: "Within my family, was I the 'bad' child?"  Upon reflection, I think the answer has to be "yes."

I never fit into my family; I was always the odd one out... .always, from the earliest I can remember.  The only person who was as odd as me was my (paternal) Grandma, and from everything I know now, she was clearly Asperger's all of her life.  I thought she was wonderful.  [Wherever you are right now, Grandma, I love you.  xoxox]  But obviously, since she came into the family as a full adult, regardless of how odd everyone else thought she was, she was never considered a "bad child."

Why was I "bad"?  Because I wasn't in my heart one of them.  

Sara, from one "bad" child to another... .I could have written what you just wrote, but you explained it so well!     To my teachers and other people I was a great kid, straight A's, quiet, overly conscientious, band member, no drinking, no drugs, honors classes, well-behaved friends.  To my parents I was the "bad" child.  I dared to express myself and hold views in opposition to them.  I dared to think for myself and try to look out for myself.  I would speak the truth to their faces, and it was true, but they hated it and didn't want to see it.   I was "fresh," I "talked back,"  I didn't "respect" them.  All those phrases make me shudder.     It's true, I didn't, because they didn't earn or deserve my respect.  I always felt like I "wasn't in my heart one of them."  

[elphaba]

another "bad" child here!   

Even to this day, somehow I'm labeled this way... .even though currently I am the only of my siblings that is gainfully employed with a real standing in the community... .I've come from severe poverty after leaving home at 18 and now have a high level position of authority and a home, etc... .does it get me any credit from them... .oh hell no.

Tangent alert:  a couple months ago I left a "happy fathers day" message on my dad's fb, as did my younger sister (the golden child)... .well, at some point my post was deleted, while my sisters still stands... .two of my daughters had birthdays recently and neither recived a card/present from my folks... .two older ones tried to visit the folks this weekend (since my oldest is leaving for a year of volunteer work)... .calls went unanswered and unreturned from both my parents and sister... .sad that they are handed this legacy of ignorance and unloving behavior from my parents... .two people who pride themselves on their christian beliefs and lives... .

I had posted something (I think) months ago about a discussion I had with my T and a study he had seen on "The resilant child"... .children raised in very dysfunctional/unloving/de-valuating environments who grow up to be very loving and successful adults dispite it all... .very interesting really... .and so is this:


And I found this recently on the INFJ personality:  INFJ - The "Confidant" Jungian Personality Types 

INFJs, making up an estimated 1% of all people, are the most rare type (males even more so). They are introspective, caring, sensitive, gentle and complex people that strive for peace and derive satisfaction from helping others. INFJs are highly intuitive, empathetic and dedicated listeners. These traits tend to act as a "tell me what's wrong" sign on their forehead, hence the nicknames Confidant, Counselor or Empath. INFJs are intensely private and deeply committed to their beliefs.