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Author Topic: Did your exBPD have strange thoughts on love?  (Read 7854 times)
ArtistGuy70
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« on: October 26, 2010, 06:18:02 AM »

I remember my exgf had some really strange thoughts on love. It was during one of our earliest breakups years ago. She said she loved me but was not in love with me anymore (after a year). She even asked me, what does being in love mean to you? I explained it and she looked at me like I was speaking Japanese.

Her thoughts were:

"Being in love with someone is when you have this burning desire to be with someone, you need them, have to have them, want them."

I told her it sounded like lust or a honeymoon stage of a r/s and that being in love with someone was something different to me. She acted like she could not comprehend it like a child.

Any of your ex's like this?
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David Dare
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 06:40:11 AM »

My ex did, but with different words.  She referred to it as energy.  I often found her explanations regarding her feelings very simplistic, abstract and confusing.  She explained this to me after she cheated and then again when she contacted me almost a year later.

"It was energy".  That was it.  No elaboration.  Just energy.  It's energy that compels her.  My interpretation of that is it's her overwhelming emotional impulses that she can't reign in that compels her, mania perhaps, but she describes it simply as "energy".  Maybe like the energizer bunny?  She just keeps going and going... .
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 06:54:41 AM »

My ex would I love you, and I care deeply for you. But... .I can't be in a loveless relationship. What the hell does that mean?

Then she would follow up with, I'm a monster and I don't deserve to be loved. I'm going to be alone the rest of my life.

In retrospect, she was right. She is a monster who doesn't deserve to be loved!
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 07:08:19 AM »

My ex would I love you, and I care deeply for you. But... .I can't be in a loveless relationship. What the hell does that mean?

Then she would follow up with, I'm a monster and I don't deserve to be loved. I'm going to be alone the rest of my life.

In retrospect, she was right. She is a monster who doesn't deserve to be loved!

My ex also used to say she would be alone the rest of her life. And they make sure of it. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
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innerspirit
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 07:12:28 AM »

My ex also used to say she would be alone the rest of her life. And they make sure of it. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

I got the opposite, as a curse -- he would threaten me that no other guy would ever put up with ______ (whatever defect du jour) from me.
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 07:15:39 AM »

My ex also used to say she would be alone the rest of her life. And they make sure of it. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

I got the opposite, as a curse -- he would threaten me that no other guy would ever put up with ______ (whatever defect du jour) from me.

It shows us how screwed up they are and no two of them are exactly alike. Mine wanted me to find someone new (she is being a martyr) and she would find someone who was going to make her happy. Good luck with that. I told her she will never be happy unless she was happy on the inside. But yeah, she always said she would wind up alone.
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fogbound
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 07:39:30 AM »

Early in our r/s the was a incident where she and I were sitting on the bed facing each other. We touched cheek to cheek and held that for about thirty seconds. I was a very tender and powerful moment. I was so enmeshed with her at the time I actually felt the energy. I asked her what had happened and she said that our souls had connected and I believed it.

Fast forward to this summer when I was evicted from our home because I couldn't afford to take her on a July 4th holiday vacation.

Connected souls?

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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 08:26:27 AM »

Early in our r/s the was a incident where she and I were sitting on the bed facing each other. We touched cheek to cheek and held that for about thirty seconds. I was a very tender and powerful moment. I was so enmeshed with her at the time I actually felt the energy. I asked her what had happened and she said that our souls had connected and I believed it.

Fast forward to this summer when I was evicted from our home because I couldn't afford to take her on a July 4th holiday vacation.

Connected souls?

Just a user who was using YOU to make her dreams come true, give her a sense of identity. It was not real love like we know it.
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fogbound
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 08:33:01 AM »

Well she sure found an easy mark. I went for it hook line and sinker.
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2010, 08:36:16 AM »

Well she sure found an easy mark. I went for it hook line and sinker.

I know. Me too, friend. We have to stop beating ourselves up over it. We are the normal ones and do not suspect people of having underlying scripts at work in their head and are dysfunctional. They are the ones who were dishonest, propped us up, lied and then discarded us. They do not know what real love is. Everything is about their needs.
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2010, 08:36:54 AM »

I was thinking that, for Christmas, I would send the x an Oscar. Because, let's face it folks, performances like these do not come around much. These ppl (BPD's) would make the Deniro's & Pacino's of the world envious of their skills for being such great actors.

Just my 2 cents.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2010, 08:40:53 AM »

I was thinking that, for Christmas, I would send the x an Oscar. Because, let's face it folks, performances like these do not come around much. These ppl (BPD's) would make the Deniro's & Pacino's of the world envious of their skills for being such great actors.

Just my 2 cents.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

They certainly know how to perform to get what they want. Remember, they wanted us. They mirrored us. They desired us and loved us (as they can love). But, they soon wanted others. They soon desired more. We were not filling those voids up anymore they had inside since childhood. So, they resort to what they know: Lying, cheating, selfishness.
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2010, 09:27:30 AM »

Hmm, it's interesting to hear how many pwBPD jump from partner to partner, whether sexual or not.  My ex always assumed that I was the one seeing other men.  I'm sorry.  I just find it completely absurd, considering that the relationship from start to finish was only two months!  He said he had not been in a relationship for two years before meeting me.  Yet he refused to acknowledge that we had a relationship.  Yet he wanted there to be daily contact and trust and openness and everything that constituted a full-blown relationship.  He didn't want a commitment, yet he got upset with me because he thought I was not committed to him.

I recall one conversation where he said that love is accepting the other person, warts and all.  Bah, tall order coming from him!   

That conversation started because he was cursing off some child in the distance, and I was abhorred by his behavior.  He continued and adamantly stated that he hates children and never wants them.  I reminded him that I would like to have children one day, but he turned it around and said our communication isn't good because I had never shared this desire of mine with him.  But I did!  Oh yes I did!  And I'm always gushing over my niece and friends' children.  He then said my behavior didn't match that desire, that I need to open up and be all lovey-dovey.  What he failed to grasp is that I would like to have a family, but with the right man, not necessarily with him right then and there!  Again, we had only known each other for a month at that point, for Pete's sake!

So, yeah, his simple idea of love seems reasonable, but... .I don't know.  There were moments when he was lucid and made perfect sense and he seemed to get things.  But then he would become the total opposite.
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2010, 09:40:58 AM »

My ex also used to say she would be alone the rest of her life.

I got the opposite, as a curse -- he would threaten me that no other guy would ever put up with ______ (whatever defect du jour) from me.


OK ~ I got both of these from my uBPDxbf.  Now that I'm starting to understand BPD, I guess it depended on the day (if I was white or black).  I'd either be 'too good for him' or 'not good enough for anybody'. 
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 09:45:56 AM »

Oh yeah, I forgot this nugget from the ex. She would tell me that she was so lucky to have me in her life. Then, a few hours later, tell me how disguisted I made her feel.

Get your tickets here for the next ride on the rollercoaster! I'm lucky my neck never snapped from all of the twists and turns she put me through.
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2010, 01:17:16 PM »

Oh yeah, I forgot this nugget from the ex. She would tell me that she was so lucky to have me in her life. Then, a few hours later, tell me how disguisted I made her feel.

Get your tickets here for the next ride on the rollercoaster! I'm lucky my neck never snapped from all of the twists and turns she put me through.

I did not have the rageful borderline like some of you. Mine was more of the waif, then queen. She was very manipulative. She lied, probably cheated (I cannot see how she didn't), refused to talk about feelings, acted on impulse, was hypersensitive, hypersexual (then abstained for periods), depressed, etc. When she got enraged, it would be against other people, not me (usually).
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 08:53:41 PM »

Artist,

Yes to your question. It always felt like she craved the attention from men and loved the honeymoon period before she got bored or the guys allegedly left. Quite a few it appears have ditched her on her birthday for some reason (Of course the reason is that they couldn't deal with her, but I did always wonder why her birthday was such a  focal point). I even asked her about the relationship with a guy from another country who worked on the cruise ship and she indicated that she loved the fantasy part of it.

Medical community has indicated that PwBPD lack the bonding chemicals or great enough quantity of them (I can't remember which) to develop long and sustained relationships and that sex does raise those levels that's why they can show some insight and depth after sex. However, absent continous sex, they don't trust their partners and they constantly chase relationships for the fill the void as they believe that will end their misery/pain.

In my case I too got the not attracted to you part as well and it's a bunch of crap really. It means that they realize that you've run your course and you don't give them those same feelings that they got at the beginning and they need the chase and chemical process of chasing a new relationship (i.e recycling). They're incapable of developing the chemical bonding that nons do so they're ultimately trapped into repeating the honeymoon period over and over again.

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PotentiallyKevin
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2010, 09:07:08 PM »

Oh yes... .I could go on and on about how she had a skewed version of love... .she actually had a phrase for it, calling it "True Love" and she always reminded me of how I didn't have "True Love" for her.

She used this as a weapon against me, because I desired more than anything for her to accept my love as "true,"  because to me, I was doing anything in my power and sacrificing everything to show her I loved her... .

The worst thing about it all, is it wasn't reciprocated... .

After the relationship, this really stunted my ability to open myself up again to the notion of love. Life just seems so fake after a relationship with someone who has BPD. I didn't know which way was up or down... .I think it is a lesson for us Nons that we need to learn and master, which is to love ourselves without conditions. At least for me, I was always looking for others to confirm that I am worth loving. Thankfully now, my love for myself is independent of others. I now have an Anchor which I was missing before and during the BPD relationship, which is very comforting - and have the ability to define my own definition of love.

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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2010, 09:20:36 PM »

My X ''what is love,who knows? I dont and if I did I wouldnt need it,its just too hard'', great logical thinking there Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)!

She also said she knew she would end up alone because of how she is and no man would tolerate her for too long but also said she didnt have a problem(BPD/NPD) and I was the one with the problem along with all her previous men.

She knows very well what love is but cant sustain it so settles for  a meal,drinks,sex and '' see you again sometime when I want to have some fun'' and she does this with a number of different men all at the same time,they just dont know it.
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2010, 05:19:49 AM »

Excerpt
"Being in love with someone is when you have this burning desire to be with someone, you need them, have to have them, want them."

Mine says and said the same. It is about the lust and falling in love thing, the madness. It is a bit like a drug.

It is a bit like addiction.

It changes over time because you get to know the person - love develops into something more profound, deeper. It is somehow superficial. It is about the feeling and not so much about the person.

He gets bored easily. He needs new people. He needs new conquest. I am quite astonished that he could last 11 years without cheating on me. He said it was lack of opportunity.

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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2010, 08:29:25 AM »

Artist, me and my W of 23 years are pursuing a divorce over this lack of "in love" feeling I allegedly have for her. At the same time she says that I won't have trouble remarrying because I have everything a woman would want in a husband, and maybe I can feel eternally "in love" with somebody else.
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2010, 08:57:47 AM »

Artist, me and my W of 23 years are pursuing a divorce over this lack of "in love" feeling I allegedly have for her. At the same time she says that I won't have trouble remarrying because I have everything a woman would want in a husband, and maybe I can feel eternally "in love" with somebody else.

Ugh. Sorry. Yeah mine told me how better off I'll be with another woman and how she will be lucky to have me,  how great I am, etc. It is like they feel they do not deserve us or happiness. They know they are always looking for more. Whatever. It was before I was painted black of course. Now I am a controlling, jealous jerk.
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innerspirit
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2010, 09:25:56 AM »

Literally sleeping together is more sacred than sex.
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2010, 10:14:11 AM »

It really is baffling to read about what are literally mirrored experiences we all seem to have with our BPD's.  I know how common it is with others on this board commenting on 'the script', but it really is utterly dumbfounding to see it in print.

I too, got the line that I'd find a woman that would love me the way I should be, that I didn't deserve to be treated like I was, etc.  She would come up with a dozen or so reasons why she didn't deserve me, and try to sell my good points to pump me up for someone else.

Then, when she split, it would be 'no woman would want a fat, useless loser without a decent job', sometimes followed up by a slap or head-flick if I was a passenger in the (HER) car.

I'm in the middle of a divorce from this one, and she was re-engaging me on the weekend talking reconciliation, all from her AP's house.  I was split white then, but after the L meeting yesterday, I'm back to DEEP black. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

So, love?  Only when she was being dosed with compliments and admiration.  Constant sex to keep her happy wasn't an option for me, because by this time, no sex was better than bad sex.  I was stuck in her disengaging mode because she wasn't 'in love' with me anymore. She was off to greener pastures.

What keeps me in good spirits is that I know she hates kids, didn't want any more, yet hooked up with a guy that has two young ones.  They were screaming and running around behind her on the call yesterday, and boy was it irritating her, because she was taking it out on me! :P

That's love, baby!
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gutzgutz
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2010, 01:22:15 PM »

Excerpt
I too, got the line that I'd find a woman that would love me the way I should be, that I didn't deserve to be treated like I was, etc.  She would come up with a dozen or so reasons why she didn't deserve me, and try to sell my good points to pump me up for someone else.

Yes, same to me. He told me that I am so lovable and that there are so many men out there who would like somebody lovely, ... .like me. I deserve to be treated better, and he does not deserve me ... .

Have heard it all.

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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2010, 05:50:34 PM »

Ex BPDNPDbpgf said, "I fall in love with whom I fall in love with. Interesting and different people, doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. If I find someone that I have chemistry with, I go for it. You only live once"~~~~~~~red-flag


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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2010, 04:05:38 PM »

Same sorts of things here.  "I love you soo much."  "I don't deserve to have you in my life."  "There are so many other girls that would love to have you as their boyfriend."  Then:  "You will never find anyone else who will put up you."  "I am the only person in the world who cares about what you think."  "You'll never love me as much as I love you." "You don't really love me."

Like someone else said, she was trapped in the honeymoon phase.  So long as it felt like that, everything was good.  I was working myself sick to keep it there, and I finally got out before I burned out completely.
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2010, 04:31:20 PM »

My X also said she doesnt fall in love but will sleep with a man as long as he is interesting.

She said to me one night while raging at me ''Yes I will f^^^k other men, Im not a nun and anyway thats what adults do, your obviously not man enough to handle that!''... .great stuff Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)!
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2010, 06:50:28 PM »

About strange thoughts about love.

Just came into my mind - and I admit I read this text on his computer.

He had written about why he started seeing the other woman:

Got bored with K. Needed somebody new. Met S. on Second Life. Helped her with buying computer. We kissed in car.

And then they had sex the next day.

Etc. etc.

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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2010, 08:42:48 PM »

Mine would say that it was butterflys in her stomach when she would see me or kiss me. She said she did not have those anymore and could not wait to find someone who made her feel that way agian.
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2010, 09:40:11 PM »

Mine said all kinds of crazy things about love... .here are a couple... .

One time I said, "I love you... ." and her response was, "That doesn't mean anything, people just say that because they want someone to say I love you to them... ."

Another time I said, "We're going to be together forever... ." and her response was, "No one can really say that as you never know when someone else could steel someones heart away... ."
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« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2010, 09:44:07 PM »

I told my x I would stick by her through anything, she said ''no,you will be gone one day''

She actually knew it wouldnt last,not because of me but because of her driving me away eventually as she has done to every previous man she has been with.
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2010, 04:07:42 AM »

Artist,

Yes to your question. It always felt like she craved the attention from men and loved the honeymoon period before she got bored or the guys allegedly left. Quite a few it appears have ditched her on her birthday for some reason (Of course the reason is that they couldn't deal with her, but I did always wonder why her birthday was such a  focal point). I even asked her about the relationship with a guy from another country who worked on the cruise ship and she indicated that she loved the fantasy part of it.

Medical community has indicated that PwBPD lack the bonding chemicals or great enough quantity of them (I can't remember which) to develop long and sustained relationships and that sex does raise those levels that's why they can show some insight and depth after sex. However, absent continous sex, they don't trust their partners and they constantly chase relationships for the fill the void as they believe that will end their misery/pain.

In my case I too got the not attracted to you part as well and it's a bunch of crap really. It means that they realize that you've run your course and you don't give them those same feelings that they got at the beginning and they need the chase and chemical process of chasing a new relationship (i.e recycling). They're incapable of developing the chemical bonding that nons do so they're ultimately trapped into repeating the honeymoon period over and over again.

Thanks for that.  That is exactly what happened to me.  Our relationship never went to another level.  I could not trust or depend on him.
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2010, 04:54:58 AM »

Excerpt
They're incapable of developing the chemical bonding that nons do so they're ultimately trapped into repeating the honeymoon period over and over again.

I think this is ambivalent. They get bored and they want this feeling again.

I thought - in case of my ex and others I have read about here - that they also desperately want to bond when they fear abandonment. So they bond to some object that is here for them until they find another object.

I think it is more object than subject bonding. Sad thing is that people are somehow exchangeable. Not totally, my ex knows quite a lot about me and has some insights, and was quite sensible and thoughtful sometimes. He has got this desperation of needing to be needed. He has got a pattern in his relationships. He wanted his girl friends most when they had another boyfriend/or when they were going to see somebody else as he did not commit. Then the whole drama and hysteria set in. He made every effort to win them back. (I did not have another guy, so maybe he got bored, who knows?)  His current relationship is with a person who acts like him.
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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2010, 06:40:56 AM »

I find it ironic that they valuate us just when we don't want it. At least, in this manner.  Telling someone their good points and value is a wonderful feeling, but having that rubber band slap back when its not meant genuinely for the relationship we're in... .it destroys the whole thought behind it, and ends up devaluating.

I know when I heard it, I eventually started thinking, 'sure... .but its not good enough for you.  I'm not worth it for anyone.'  Totally destructive to your self-worth.

It's not so bad now.  I know now, from this board, that she was just projecting her self-loathing.
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2010, 07:19:49 AM »

She saw being in love as more of a LUST definition. Having to be with someone, needing them, desiring them, etc. It was a perfect description of the HONEYMOON STAGE.

It cannot be sustained for long. But in their childlike, fantasy world, that is what they want. They long for it.
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« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2010, 09:03:18 AM »

I remember when we first met, before we were even dating.  Our knees touched under the table, and I literally felt an electric shock -- so did she.  We thought then it was destiny or some other overwhelming external message. 

I still don't know what it was, I've never felt it before or since, with anyone else, at any time.  But I've learned it was not necessarily a good thing, and certainly not a sign of good times to come. 

I've learned that electicity can burn and destroy. 
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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2010, 10:24:45 AM »

Our knees touched under the table, and I literally felt an electric shock -- so did she.

Funny you said this. It happened to me once in my life. I was at a party as a teen and I touched the hand of one girl. I was handing her something but forgot what. Our fingertips touched and it was this electricity. I knew she felt it because her eyes got wide. And we looked at each other like, WTH? Nothing romantic started between us, and probably a good thing!
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« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2010, 05:48:47 AM »

ArtistGuy,

I can echo some of what you said and what others listed too. 

Fairly early on my ex asked me if I had ever been in love, and admitted she didn't know if she ever had.  This is after having several long term relationships where she lived with her SOs for years.  She didn't say it in so many words, but I did get the impression that "love" was associated with the infatuation and passion early on in a relationship.  Maybe to her since that feeling didn't last forever for her, she wasn't sure she had ever been in love. 

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« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2010, 06:23:13 AM »

ArtistGuy,

I can echo some of what you said and what others listed too. 

Fairly early on my ex asked me if I had ever been in love, and admitted she didn't know if she ever had.  This is after having several long term relationships where she lived with her SOs for years.  She didn't say it in so many words, but I did get the impression that "love" was associated with the infatuation and passion early on in a relationship.  Maybe to her since that feeling didn't last forever for her, she wasn't sure she had ever been in love. 

This is quite revealing (as the other posts as well) about the thought process in the borderline mind. They constantly question their own emotions and have no idea what love really is beyond the infactuation and honeymoon periods. Looking back, our best times were sexual. She seemed happy, content, loving, etc. They long for love and that honeymoon stage. Like a child, they expect that to last forever. If it does not, it was just not "right" in the end (like my ex said to me).
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« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2010, 07:03:44 AM »

I remember when we first met, before we were even dating.  Our knees touched under the table, and I literally felt an electric shock -- so did she... .I've learned that electicity can burn and destroy. 

Is that why you chose the name Carbon?  (I'm sure scientists meant something else when they discovered carbon dating!)
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« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2010, 07:46:32 AM »

ArtistGuy,

I can echo some of what you said and what others listed too. 

Fairly early on my ex asked me if I had ever been in love, and admitted she didn't know if she ever had.  This is after having several long term relationships where she lived with her SOs for years.  She didn't say it in so many words, but I did get the impression that "love" was associated with the infatuation and passion early on in a relationship.  Maybe to her since that feeling didn't last forever for her, she wasn't sure she had ever been in love. 

This is quite revealing (as the other posts as well) about the thought process in the borderline mind. They constantly question their own emotions and have no idea what love really is beyond the infactuation and honeymoon periods. Looking back, our best times were sexual. She seemed happy, content, loving, etc. They long for love and that honeymoon stage. Like a child, they expect that to last forever. If it does not, it was just not "right" in the end (like my ex said to me).

Towards the end of our relationship, when she was justifying her actions and I was in the pleading stage, she would always counter my arguments of the two of us being in love once and chasing it again, with 'Were we ever in love? I don't think so, you hit__ (fill in slight of the moment)"  This at some other point after she had told me she loved me, but wasn't in love with me.  Boom... .affair line. She was on her honeymoon with someone else, not the guy she just married.
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« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2010, 07:50:11 AM »

ArtistGuy,

I can echo some of what you said and what others listed too. 

Fairly early on my ex asked me if I had ever been in love, and admitted she didn't know if she ever had.  This is after having several long term relationships where she lived with her SOs for years.  She didn't say it in so many words, but I did get the impression that "love" was associated with the infatuation and passion early on in a relationship.  Maybe to her since that feeling didn't last forever for her, she wasn't sure she had ever been in love. 

This is quite revealing (as the other posts as well) about the thought process in the borderline mind. They constantly question their own emotions and have no idea what love really is beyond the infactuation and honeymoon periods. Looking back, our best times were sexual. She seemed happy, content, loving, etc. They long for love and that honeymoon stage. Like a child, they expect that to last forever. If it does not, it was just not "right" in the end (like my ex said to me).

Towards the end of our relationship, when she was justifying her actions and I was in the pleading stage, she would always counter my arguments of the two of us being in love once and chasing it again, with 'Were we ever in love? I don't think so, you hit__ (fill in slight of the moment)"  This at some other point after she had told me she loved me, but wasn't in love with me.  Boom... .affair line. She was on her honeymoon with someone else, not the guy she just married.

Yep, I got that line too. I believe when she had her doubts like this, she ran to her boss or some guy to get that FIX she needed to feel loved (to get that high). We did not have much sex the last six months of the r/s due to her depression meds (and who knows what else).
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« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2010, 08:13:10 AM »

For some odd reason, she told me the minute she slept with him, she stopped with me.  She had moved to the other bedroom at this time, and I only got one minor sexual act after that.  She said she had felt sorry for me not having gotten any in a while.  This was six weeks away from our wedding.

I had a gut feeling right then, while it was going on, that this was going to be the last time.  I should have listened to that inner voice and get the disengagement going with her.  I ignored it.  We were getting married, and I had hoped she was only having cold feet, and we would turn the page during the honeymoon.

She did mention once a few months before that she had wanted to stop having sex until we were married.  That little tidbit kept whispering in my ear the whole time, soothing my fears.  Hard to trust that inner voice sometimes.
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« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2010, 10:28:27 AM »

Mine says and said the same. It is about the lust and falling in love thing, the madness. It is a bit like a drug.

It is a bit like addiction.

It changes over time because you get to know the person - love develops into something more profound, deeper. It is somehow superficial. It is about the feeling and not so much about the person... .I am quite astonished that he could last 11 years without cheating on me. He said it was lack of opportunity.

It's astounding that the things they say, often to sound so hurtful to us, are so revealing about themselves.

Ideally the narcotic effect of emfatuation would change over time to something more profound and deeper -- that's how love is supposed to mature.  However he was describing his own superficiality, that he wanted the feeling, not so much the particular person.  Had he the opportunity to cheat, that is to get more of a fix of the initial lust and falling in love, he would have leapt at the chance -- and can you feel the dig? -- it might have been even more of a high for him to do it and know that he was getting away with it without your suspecting anything.  Even to bring home more of a smile and have you enjoy his better mood.
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« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2010, 11:05:25 AM »

Mine said once, I know I love you, I think about how fantastic sex is with you all the time. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  His thoughts were strange and he was strange, Im starting to get the idea, Im even more strange then him for accepting his nonsense.
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« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2010, 06:16:11 AM »

It's like they have no common sense. These things just were not developed at a young age.
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« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2010, 08:17:48 AM »

Excerpt
Even to bring home more of a smile and have you enjoy his better mood.

He has done that during the last 2 or so years. He came back satisfied like a cat having licked a pot of cream. He was nice to me, verbally and was whistling and listening to love songs on the computer.

He had seen this other women during some weekends, sneaked away from work and had (so he had told me) sex with her in the shower of his work place, in a disabled toilet in a restaurant, etc.

He was so satisfied.

When he took her on holiday (without me knowing it), he had to tell me at the morning of a job interview. Of course, I was not good at the interview. I asked him why he could not have waited until after my job interview. He said he had to say it immediately, because he had felt guilty.

IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT HIM, no thought about the effects and timings of his 'confessions'.

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« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2010, 01:00:47 PM »

My exBPDgf (diagnosed?) was obsessed with the concept of love and spouted dozens of bizarre ideas that resonate with these posts.

When things were going well for the first several months, she would turn to me with a beatific expression each day and say "hey (me)" ... .dramatic pause ... ."i love you." She appended a "so much" on the best days. It was very cheesy, and I found it irritating when I noticed she would invariably use this device to interrupt conversations. When I was away, this was sporadically paired with very odd emails where she would describe a person, supposedly me, in an idolatrous way, as if I were the hero in a cheap novel based loosely on my life. It was as if she were more interested in the feeling she derived from this image of me than in what we were actually doing together at the moment.

She often would ask me about the nature of love, and my love for her, which never went well. I'd explain how an initial infatuation and excitement over some months would stabilize into a steady commitment of mutual respect, trust, and desire, with less extreme feelings. This appeared to fluster her, as she apparently needed her infatuation and obsession to last forever or it would never work. Her barometer of a relationship was whether she saw herself getting married to whomever she was with; it was over when she lost that "vision." I got the impression she wanted to marry me within about a month, held it about six months longer, and then dumped me within a few weeks of its dissipation.

Her own idea of love was best revealed in an animated rant a few days before she broke up with me (apparently for "not loving me enough". We had both read Lolita recently on her urging, which I thought odd because she often insisted that she never reads any classic fiction. I told her about how disturbing a portrait of obsession the book reveals, and how destructive and selfish the narrator is in his pursuit of a feckless little girl. But before I could finish, exgf launched into her view that the book perfectly captured the essence of "love." It was clear to me that she identified with the narrator, which horrified me.

Putting aside the nauseating immorality of the Lolita story, clearly for her love was about the possession and manipulation of a mindless object, like Lolita, that was nonetheless difficult to pursue.

So maybe BPD love is more like a fetish?

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« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2010, 01:07:45 PM »

I believe they "long for love." They want to love but once they have it, they become bored and want to long for it again. They grew up in households where love was not always available. They had early relationships growing up that were abusive or traumatic perhaps (early boyfriends, friends, etc.). So they are used to the chaos. The longing for love (unrequited love) seems like real love to them.

The passion, desire, honeymoon stage - that's love to them. Once it fades away, they lose interest and believe they are no longer in love. Sad but true.
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« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2010, 01:16:16 PM »

Mine did not like stability and he did not appreciate a "normal" everyday love relationship. I think they get bored and they have unrealistic goals driven by the internal emotional turbulence.

My ex loved the honeymoon infatuation state and he wanted to get married after a month! He had a history of many failed relationships (where he got bored), 1 marriage, 2 engagements, quite a few girlfriends (including me, I guess I was the 9th).

Love was me giving him love, but nothing in return.
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« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2010, 04:58:03 AM »

I believe they "long for love." They want to love but once they have it, they become bored and want to long for it again. They grew up in households where love was not always available. They had early relationships growing up that were abusive or traumatic perhaps (early boyfriends, friends, etc.). So they are used to the chaos. The longing for love (unrequited love) seems like real love to them.

The passion, desire, honeymoon stage - that's love to them. Once it fades away, they lose interest and believe they are no longer in love. Sad but true.

Exactly my experience and perception.  When the relationship was ready to move beyond that, or maybe before, she started doubting whether she was in love.
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« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2010, 06:17:13 AM »

I believe they "long for love." They want to love but once they have it, they become bored and want to long for it again. They grew up in households where love was not always available. They had early relationships growing up that were abusive or traumatic perhaps (early boyfriends, friends, etc.). So they are used to the chaos. The longing for love (unrequited love) seems like real love to them.

The passion, desire, honeymoon stage - that's love to them. Once it fades away, they lose interest and believe they are no longer in love. Sad but true.

Exactly my experience and perception.  When the relationship was ready to move beyond that, or maybe before, she started doubting whether she was in love.

Yes, we would hit points over the five years when there was talk about the next step (moving in, etc.). She would have her doubts then. The fears set in. They panic.
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« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2010, 11:15:42 AM »

My ex loved the honeymoon infatuation state and he wanted to get married after a month! He had a history of many failed relationships (where he got bored), 1 marriage, 2 engagements, quite a few girlfriends (including me, I guess I was the 9th).

Love was me giving him love, but nothing in return.

Mine asked me to marry him after 6 months, then when I discovered his (first) affair not long after that, he told me that I "left him alone too much"  His idea of love was HOW much time we spent together, not the QUALITY of the time we spent together.  He came out of a 25 year marriage (with one confessed affair, one that I found out about and countless number of unknown) and claimed to be the victim since his wife cheated on him.  Very early on in our relationship, he asked me to never cheat on him since that was what he was recovering from in his first marriage; and very frequently accused me (wrongly) of being with other men throughout our relationship.  Not a very strong concept of love.
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« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2010, 11:23:16 AM »

Excerpt
I "left him alone too much"  His idea of love was HOW much time we spent together, not the QUALITY of the time we spent together.

I wholeheartedly concur with this comment.  It always seemed to be a necessity to be available, in the same room, doing whatever the hell they were doing whether I liked it or not, to feel loved. The moment I asked her to do something I wanted (near the end of our r/s), it was met with the heaviest of resistance and sometimes rage or browbeating.

And if I did something in compromise - i.e. reading or writing on the laptop while she slept because I couldn't sleep - I got ripped for that. She had to be held, on her terms, on her time.  She was still 'alone'.  Sigh.  God forbid should I roll away from her in my sleep!
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« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2010, 11:33:35 AM »

Interesting. I had to face him when we were asleep or he got upset. He had a constant need of attention and assurance of love. He expected me to call him 4 times a day! I think its about control, not love.
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« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2010, 11:40:32 AM »

Yes, the same here.  I was bored stiff sitting on the couch with his arm around me watching some show I wasn't interested in... .and not able to do something else.  Then, if he was tired and wanted to go to sleep, I had to be tired too.  Watching TV wasn't a problem, mind you - as long as we didn't watch Jeopardy - since "he felt so dumb because everyone else knew the answers"  Same thing with any board game - we couldn't play them because I was "too competitive and took the fun out of them" I didn't know the rule was  he had to win all the time... .  saga continued with exercise - treadmill couldn't be faster than his... .or a browbeating would follow saying I was trying to embarrass him in front of the other people at the health club.  Togetherness is great until it is distorted into a bizarre reality.  I can't count how many times he would just show up at my house in a panic claiming that he couldn't reach me by phone and he was worried about me.
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« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2010, 11:56:23 AM »

Lookingin,

Can't believe it! Mine did the same.

He showed up at my place several times just because I did not answer the phone when he called 5 times a day. He claimed it was because he cared (!) but I know it was control, not care. Then he said all the other girlfriends always called him several times a day... .they were always so much better... . 
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« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2010, 01:33:27 PM »

Hey O'Maria, when mine had left to live with her AP right after we got married, she would call and call constantly.  In the dozens of times a day.  She eventually just started showing up back at the house at 5 AM, under the excuse of a shower and getting changed for work.  First thing she would do is check the phones for strange numbers and then accuse me of having a girlfriend for one, and having her over for another.  I broke out laughing right in her face after a couple months of this, considering she's saying this as she just came over from her boyfriends house.

I was able to set a clock by when she'd call after a while.

Lookingin, mine was impossible to play board games with.  Her son and I had to deliberately lose in order to shut her up.  Then she'd be a poor winner, too, dancing and hollering like she won the Super Bowl singlehandedly.  Can't win for losing.
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« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2010, 02:51:20 PM »

Mine took my phone when I was asleep and he even called people listed as contacts. Especially when he was drunk, he became dangerously jealous and physically violent. But it was all because he cared so much (!)... .
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« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2010, 05:04:56 PM »

This is funny now - the excuse my ex gave me about not sending me an invitation to her 50th birthday party because she wasn't sure we would still be together by then (it was only w month in the future at the time!)

Like has been posted, my ex told me she was impulsive, 'what was real for me is real at the time' and when I said to her - if she was having an affair behind my back that would mean the end of us & no further contact - the look of guilt in her eyes told me everything.

I agree with others here that the honeymoon phase is all that matters to them - that's what they mistake for love... .
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« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2010, 07:34:27 PM »

Yes, they really think being in love is the honeymoon stage. Once that is over, they might let it drag on like mine did, then recycle, then drag on, etc. Finally she left. She will keep doing this the rest of her life, looking for that honeymoon stage over and over again with various men.
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« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2010, 06:53:01 AM »

Compared to other partners, my BPD bf was EXTREMELY excited when we met and was ready to plan for the future. He said he loved me only a month after we met, he gave me the key to his place and wanted me to move in. After 2 months he suggested we get married!

I have never seen anybody move that fast (I now know its a huge RED FLAG). Later I learned that he was used to moving fast, he got engaged with his ex one month after they met.

It is a strange type of love.
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« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2010, 09:07:06 AM »

Yes, the Honeymoon, that's what they live for. The first 4-5 months I was the happiest I had ever been.  It did seem too good to be true and I was worried about what would happen when the infatuation phase started to wear off for her.  I remember saying to my exgf that I couldn't wait for the next phase of our relationship to see where we were going. She said, "why can't it be like this forever, I really think it can".  Now that I caught her obssessivly texting another man, I know she is in the infatuation stage again and thinks she found her new "Knight in Shining Armor" and there is no sense in me trying to convince her otherwise.  Her emotional connection to me has been severed and I can't do a thing about it. 

I don't know how I would have survived the last 2.5 years of this relationship without BPD Family.  I would never have been able to make any sense of what was going on with her.  As bad as I feel, at I least I know it's not all me. I feel so bad for people that are dealing with breakups with BPD's and know nothing of BPD. 
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« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2010, 09:12:45 AM »

Yes, the Honeymoon, that's what they live for. The first 4-5 months I was the happiest I had ever been.  It did seem too good to be true and I was worried about what would happen when the infatuation phase started to wear off for her.  I remember saying to my exgf that I couldn't wait for the next phase of our relationship to see where we were going. She said, "why can't it be like this forever, I really think it can".  Now that I caught her obssessivly texting another man, I know she is in the infatuation stage again and thinks she found her new "Knight in Shining Armor" and there is no sense in me trying to convince her otherwise.  Her emotional connection to me has been severed and I can't do a thing about it. 

I don't know how I would have survived the last 2.5 years of this relationship without BPD Family.  I would never have been able to make any sense of what was going on with her.  As bad as I feel, at I least I know it's not all me. I feel so bad for people that are dealing with breakups with BPD's and know nothing of BPD. 

Sorry to hear of this. Yep, same here. She wanted this honeymoon stage to last forever. Mine had her married boss there whenever she needed him so I have no idea if the cheating went on now and then, just when she got depressed or all the time. She still denies it but ran off with him right after our breakup. He was in the wings. She called him the same day. The new rescuer. Well, in his case, the old rescuer who is there again.

They go through life using MANY rescuers for different needs. They won't change.
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« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2010, 10:39:41 AM »

Mine ran to the boyfriend waiting in the wings the minute we seperated so she could be rescued from the horrible husband. The cheating had been going on for months prior to that. According to her I wasn't filling her emotional needs so that's why she needed him.

As far as love goes, they have no idea what the word means. But to them, love is about everyone around them filling the emotional bottomless pit of selfish need that every borderline has. Make an attempt to stop filling the pit of need, or assert needs of your own, and you'll be thrown to the wolves faster than you can blink an eye.
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« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2010, 02:28:52 PM »

My ex told me last Saturday that she has always found love to be a destructive emotion so she just doesnt go there,if she does start to have feelings for a man and him for her she destroys it because to allow that to happen means ,for her,that too much is expected and she simply cant deliver.

She prefers to have several FWB's.
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« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2010, 03:48:19 PM »

'Too much is expected & can't deliver'... .

Very familiar lines. Very frustrating. I made a very very stupid mistake at the beginning of my interaction with my BPDexgf that I constantly kick myself about now.

I'd just started seeing a nice girl and we were moving at what I now realise is a normal stately pace. I went to the works Xmas party, 2 years ago & was targeted by the BPDex., bowled over with the intensity of her undivided attention & received a text from her the following morning 'did last night really happen'  (though we didn't sleep together)Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) . Why oh why didn't I delete the text, forget about about her & resume my proper r/s with Ji**?

Arghhhh! Still I now know to be very very wary in the future... .hard lesson & I blame myself... .
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« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2010, 07:17:40 PM »

Benny,

Love is destructive and needs to be destroyed? So we should all be mechanic robots?

I remember my ex used to say he can detect every lack of emotion by looking at my face, and he demanded 100% affection 24/7 or he thought we were drifting apart.

These people confuse me. I guess they don't understand the concept of love.
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« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2010, 10:50:04 PM »

if she does start to have feelings for a man and him for her she destroys it because to allow that to happen means ,for her,that too much is expected and she simply cant deliver.

She prefers to have several FWB's.

Seems remarkably honest introspection about the sabotage.  The grass is sort of greener in that way -- in a way I wish I had heard that kind of self-awareness from my X.

But it must be frustrating if she has the awareness yet continues the pattern.  Well, frustrating I guess would be the word if you'd continued to be close to her, just pretty pathetic while keeping your distance.
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« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2010, 12:07:33 AM »

Hi IS

Yes, it is pathetic and sad but she chooses that path in life. I know that she is disordered and deeply so but I also know that a lot of what she does is deliberate,calculated and manipulative.

She is very controlled in a lot of ways,very aware of her problems but has become use to living that way so keeps living that way,its what she knows.

I think as she gets older these behaviors will intensify as she becomes more desperate because her looks are fading from the normal ageing process and heavy drinking and men are not as readily interested as in the past.

I hope she doesnt get hurt by going  home with the wrong one some night.
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« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2010, 03:38:18 AM »

this was sporadically paired with very odd emails where she would describe a person, supposedly me, in an idolatrous way, as if I were the hero in a cheap novel based loosely on my life. It was as if she were more interested in the feeling she derived from this image of me than in what we were actually doing together at the moment.

She often would ask me about the nature of love, and my love for her, which never went well. I'd explain how an initial infatuation and excitement over some months would stabilize into a steady commitment of mutual respect, trust, and desire, with less extreme feelings. This appeared to fluster her, as she apparently needed her infatuation and obsession to last forever or it would never work. Her barometer of a relationship was whether she saw herself getting married to whomever she was with; it was over when she lost that "vision." I got the impression she wanted to marry me within about a month, held it about six months longer, and then dumped me within a few weeks of its dissipation.

Her own idea of love was best revealed in an animated rant a few days before she broke up with me (apparently for "not loving me enough". We had both read Lolita recently on her urging, which I thought odd because she often insisted that she never reads any classic fiction. I told her about how disturbing a portrait of obsession the book reveals, and how destructive and selfish the narrator is in his pursuit of a feckless little girl. But before I could finish, exgf launched into her view that the book perfectly captured the essence of "love." It was clear to me that she identified with the narrator, which horrified me.

Putting aside the nauseating immorality of the Lolita story, clearly for her love was about the possession and manipulation of a mindless object, like Lolita, that was nonetheless difficult to pursue.

So maybe BPD love is more like a fetish?

Procrustes, Welcome to the forum. Yours is one of the most perceptive and insightful posts I've read describing how Borderline's think.  Is it a fetish? You may be on to something with that question. In the same way a woman may long for high heels, or a Man longs for boots, a Borderline longs for attachment. Unfortunately, like any longing, the craving for the rewarding object is the turn-on, not the possession of the object- therefore it's the fantasy that matters- not reality.  In reality (and with possession,) the object loses it's magnetic field of "want" i.e; loses its pull in the push/pull of Borderline.  

A new pair of high heels... satisfies in the present, but becomes obsessive need the next week. Does a woman with a shoe fetish feel "fixed" after she buys a pair of shoes? Hardly. That doesn't explain the dozens of pairs sold to the same woman annually at Neiman Marcus. She's got a fetish. Like any addictive cycle, the search turns "want" into "need."  It hasn't got anything to do with boredom. Boredom and compulsion are not the same. Borderline compulsion is a frantic desire to attain the fantasy of safety.  It is longing for that safety by recreating a "fix" to end anxiety. The safety they seek is within the fantasy of the "fix" (the fantasy of the object.)  

When the object is a person- the fantasy becomes unrewarding to the Borderline and a reminder of earlier conflicts.  Trying to live on the edge there in fantasy land by controlling another human (us) doesn't work- because two people cannot live in fantasy all the time and someone always tries to negotiate reality, and that someone is each one of us here.  A Borderline anticipates this and fears your withdrawal from the fantasy.  (Only one thing left to do for the Borderline and that is to find a new fantasy partner.)

Showing a Borderline how valuable you are in reality wont make them realize your value. Your value actually was in the fantasy chase to get your attention. It was the longing for your admiration that the Borderline craved.  That's also why Borderlines seek part-time fantasy relationships, especially with married men and women. There's less control/ more reward (less reality/more fantasy) and double the longing with a married partner, not to mention that it works both ways from the married partner's side.

Are they ever invested in the relationship? Yes. Some are Schizoid. Some never leave the house. They stay home and cry, get depressed or rage at the perceived dungeon master and control. Eventually they destabilize the bond they have with others by acting-out behaviors. Their entire focus is on the return to the fantasy World where a better reward awaits- one they can invest energy into by mirroring and reflecting and culling their fantasy persona.  But be aware, that anytime you dress up a Borderline Man in a suit/tie or tell a Borderline woman what to wear- you are now going to pay dearly in unexpected ways- because you've just turned fantasy into what they want to escape from-the reality of their controlling hyper-critical parent.

New people are rewarding. That new person doesn't tell them what to do- but rather, just sits in awe- like we all once did. A better reward can easily be found on the Internet.  It is a compulsion that could very well be compared to a fetish, but only for the thrill of the fantasy.  Like a woman with a pair of thigh high boots- you've only got power when you put them on and play to an audience. If that's rewarding- you've got to buy more shoes- but very specific shoes for very specific people- and those shoes only work when they are worn. That doesn't do much for the rest of the time- nor does it alleviate the anxiety felt when the Borderline cannot rely on those magic shoes for power.  The rest of the time, they are empty buckets with holes in the bottom that need constant filling and that creates anxiety.

We all have problems with turning wants into needs when we shouldn't- and we do what we can to eliminate our anxiety and reconcile what is bothering us.  To use others as band-aids requires a deception. Borderlines are addicted to and use people- but it's only for fantasy.  They have absolutely no desire to separate their wants from needs.  What they really want is to be self-supportive, but they think they need to be symbiotic.  They reconcile the difference by suggesting that we need them as much as they need us.  If they do stay with us for awhile- it's because they believe we've got an investment in the fantasy too... .a realization that the narrator of Lolita dealt with painfully by failing to come to terms with his own self-deception and romanticism until it destroyed him.  Idea

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« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2010, 06:40:41 AM »

this was sporadically paired with very odd emails where she would describe a person, supposedly me, in an idolatrous way, as if I were the hero in a cheap novel based loosely on my life. It was as if she were more interested in the feeling she derived from this image of me than in what we were actually doing together at the moment.

She often would ask me about the nature of love, and my love for her, which never went well. I'd explain how an initial infatuation and excitement over some months would stabilize into a steady commitment of mutual respect, trust, and desire, with less extreme feelings. This appeared to fluster her, as she apparently needed her infatuation and obsession to last forever or it would never work. Her barometer of a relationship was whether she saw herself getting married to whomever she was with; it was over when she lost that "vision." I got the impression she wanted to marry me within about a month, held it about six months longer, and then dumped me within a few weeks of its dissipation.

Her own idea of love was best revealed in an animated rant a few days before she broke up with me (apparently for "not loving me enough". We had both read Lolita recently on her urging, which I thought odd because she often insisted that she never reads any classic fiction. I told her about how disturbing a portrait of obsession the book reveals, and how destructive and selfish the narrator is in his pursuit of a feckless little girl. But before I could finish, exgf launched into her view that the book perfectly captured the essence of "love." It was clear to me that she identified with the narrator, which horrified me.

Putting aside the nauseating immorality of the Lolita story, clearly for her love was about the possession and manipulation of a mindless object, like Lolita, that was nonetheless difficult to pursue.

So maybe BPD love is more like a fetish?

Procrustes, Welcome to the forum. Yours is one of the most perceptive and insightful posts I've read describing how Borderline's think.  Is it a fetish? You may be on to something with that question. In the same way a woman may long for high heels, or a Man longs for boots, a Borderline longs for attachment. Unfortunately, like any longing, the craving for the rewarding object is the turn-on, not the possession of the object- therefore it's the fantasy that matters- not reality.  In reality (and with possession,) the object loses it's magnetic field of "want" i.e; loses its pull in the push/pull of Borderline.  

A new pair of high heels... satisfies in the present, but becomes obsessive need the next week. Does a woman with a shoe fetish feel "fixed" after she buys a pair of shoes? Hardly. That doesn't explain the dozens of pairs sold to the same woman annually at Neiman Marcus. She's got a fetish. Like any addictive cycle, the search turns "want" into "need."  It hasn't got anything to do with boredom. Boredom and compulsion are not the same. Borderline compulsion is a frantic desire to attain the fantasy of safety.  It is longing for that safety by recreating a "fix" to end anxiety. The safety they seek is within the fantasy of the "fix" (the fantasy of the object.)  

When the object is a person- the fantasy becomes unrewarding to the Borderline and a reminder of earlier conflicts.  Trying to live on the edge there in fantasy land by controlling another human (us) doesn't work- because two people cannot live in fantasy all the time and someone always tries to negotiate reality, and that someone is each one of us here.  A Borderline anticipates this and fears your withdrawal from the fantasy.  (Only one thing left to do for the Borderline and that is to find a new fantasy partner.)

Showing a Borderline how valuable you are in reality wont make them realize your value. Your value actually was in the fantasy chase to get your attention. It was the longing for your admiration that the Borderline craved.  That's also why Borderlines seek part-time fantasy relationships, especially with married men and women. There's less control/ more reward (less reality/more fantasy) and double the longing with a married partner, not to mention that it works both ways from the married partner's side.

Are they ever invested in the relationship? Yes. Some are Schizoid. Some never leave the house. They stay home and cry, get depressed or rage at the perceived dungeon master and control. Eventually they destabilize the bond they have with others by acting-out behaviors. Their entire focus is on the return to the fantasy World where a better reward awaits- one they can invest energy into by mirroring and reflecting and culling their fantasy persona.  But be aware, that anytime you dress up a Borderline Man in a suit/tie or tell a Borderline woman what to wear- you are now going to pay dearly in unexpected ways- because you've just turned fantasy into what they want to escape from-the reality of their controlling hyper-critical parent.

New people are rewarding. That new person doesn't tell them what to do- but rather, just sits in awe- like we all once did. A better reward can easily be found on the Internet.  It is a compulsion that could very well be compared to a fetish, but only for the thrill of the fantasy.  Like a woman with a pair of thigh high boots- you've only got power when you put them on and play to an audience. If that's rewarding- you've got to buy more shoes- but very specific shoes for very specific people- and those shoes only work when they are worn. That doesn't do much for the rest of the time- nor does it alleviate the anxiety felt when the Borderline cannot rely on those magic shoes for power.  The rest of the time, they are empty buckets with holes in the bottom that need constant filling and that creates anxiety.

We all have problems with turning wants into needs when we shouldn't- and we do what we can to eliminate our anxiety and reconcile what is bothering us.  To use others as band-aids requires a deception. Borderlines are addicted to and use people- but it's only for fantasy.  They have absolutely no desire to separate their wants from needs.  What they really want is to be self-supportive, but they think they need to be symbiotic.  They reconcile the difference by suggesting that we need them as much as they need us.  If they do stay with us for awhile- it's because they believe we've got an investment in the fantasy too... .a realization that the narrator of Lolita dealt with painfully by failing to come to terms with his own self-deception and romanticism until it destroyed him.  Idea

2010,

Another wonderful post full of insight. I enjoyed reading your shoe whore analogy. My ex was a self professed shoe whore (boots, purses, you name it) and I see that now as a way of filling up those holes temporarily. Just as, during our "break", she went off with her rich, married boss who is always full of rewards for her in exchange for sex and companionship.

-new shoes and clothes

-trips to resorts and spas

-jewelry

-food at XMas, time off when she needs it

-job security

-her new landscaping and sprinklers

-tables and sandbags, supplies for her art shows

-spending money

She always saw safety and security with him (same thing she told me about me). When we fell apart, or rather when her false self crumbled, she ran to him. I am sure there were points in the five years when she ran to him. She does not have to commit to him, but still gets the safety and attachment. He does not have to commit to her either. They can both long for each other behind my back (and his wife's back). It must have been some kind of exciting thing for her in her fantasy world. A former lover who longs for her while she has a r/s with someone else. Once I was gone and they were exposed, she even dropped him for awhile (or vice versa after his wife also found out and they separated). I guess the excitement died down. She'll run back to him since the holidays are approaching fast. A user, going through life attaching to people and then vilifying them when it suits her.

I know I was "stand in Daddy" to her. I am sure he is too. All romantic interests are. She wanted control. She asked for it. For those same reasons, I was vilified. Sad. Their fantasy and reality merged.
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« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2010, 06:54:01 AM »

 
Excerpt
the craving for the rewarding object is the turn-on, not the possession of the object

Funny, I had this conversation with my uBPDw when I was trying to reconcile with her this summer, where similar words were heard.

She was talking about her bf (yuck), and trying to understand why she was feeling a certain way.

Her: "I get bored easy. I hear all these things from him, and like him, but there's something missing I can't put a finger on." (Most people would say its buried guilt and conscience, but she isn't normal)

Me: "Because you like the chase.  You wanted to conquer him, and you did.  Now that you've got him, you're bored. The rush is gone."

Her: "You're right... ."

Whatever.
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ArtistGuy70
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« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2010, 06:56:56 AM »

Excerpt
the craving for the rewarding object is the turn-on, not the possession of the object

Funny, I had this conversation with my uBPDw when I was trying to reconcile with her this summer, where similar words were heard.

She was talking about her bf (yuck), and trying to understand why she was feeling a certain way.

Her: "I get bored easy. I hear all these things from him, and like him, but there's something missing I can't put a finger on." (Most people would say its buried guilt and conscience, but she isn't normal)

Me: "Because you like the chase.  You wanted to conquer him, and you did.  Now that you've got him, you're bored. The rush is gone."

Her: "You're right... ."

Whatever.

How true is this. My ex lost interest in her married rich boss and "chose me" five years ago. She could not have me fully. Once we were together, I am sure she ran back and forth to him for the chase. The longing and pursuit. She admitted to me that she gets bored easily. Guys can't keep her attention or keep her interested after a period of time.

You're right. They love the chase. The pursuit. To long for love. Like children.
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« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2010, 01:44:01 AM »

Showing a Borderline how valuable you are in reality wont make them realize your value. Your value actually was in the fantasy chase to get your attention. It was the longing for your admiration that the Borderline craved

2010 I love reading your posts!  So insightful, and so enlightening.

I have realized this w/ my stbxdBPDh.  As long as I stay far enough away, he enjoys the chase, and I am painted white and treated kindly (the way I should be considering all I have put up with and all I have tried to help him with -but that is another story).

The moment I give in to him, bring him closer, allow him into my life, with in minutes, hours, sometimes days, it all flips.  I get painted black, he hates me, and life is turns ugly (until I pull away because of the chaos and abuse and then the chase is on again).   It is a balancing game, and not an easy one!

Unfortunately, unlike others who have no ties to keep them w/ the pwBPD, I must remain in contact - although LC - and I must be careful I dont give in too much, almost have to pull enough away to keep him wanting more so in turn behaving better... .

It is not what I want but its better than the alternate (being painted black and being punished for being so... .)

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« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2010, 11:40:22 AM »

He would leave tiny (1,000) "confetti" notes that said "I heart u" all over the house.  I mean in cerial boxes, shoes, draws ... .everywhere.  Sounds sweet, but it's not.  He has done this many times...
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innerspirit
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« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2010, 11:57:37 AM »

He would leave tiny (1,000) "confetti" notes that said "I heart u" all over the house.  I mean in cerial boxes, shoes, draws ... .everywhere.  Sounds sweet, but it's not.  He has done this many times...

As if to be enmeshed with you 24/7? 
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« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2010, 12:18:47 PM »

Mine left "love notes" all over the house too, but only IN THE BEGINNING of our relationship. Two months later he got aggressive, and told me to get the hell out... .

The love did not survive the honeymoon stage.
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« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2010, 01:49:49 PM »

need peace

Excerpt
I have realized this w/ my stbxdBPDh.  As long as I stay far enough away, he enjoys the chase, and I am painted white and treated kindly (the way I should be considering all I have put up with and all I have tried to help him with -but that is another story).

The moment I give in to him, bring him closer, allow him into my life, with in minutes, hours, sometimes days, it all flips.  I get painted black, he hates me, and life is turns ugly (until I pull away because of the chaos and abuse and then the chase is on again).   It is a balancing game, and not an easy one!

Have experienced the same. He even told me that he needs the chase, and when I am unavailable he wants me. His brother has apparently told him that a lot of guys are like this. So he does not see a problem.

He has got this friend, who changes his girl friends every other month, supply is match.com (seems to be like a super market) and he also told him that you can get always a new one there.

Wonder if besides borderline if there is also an issue of commitment phobia (this could also explain push and pull, yes and no, holding the partner/lover like a puppet on the string).

Anyway, however and whatever its is, it is appalling treatment, it is immature and it is not what we deserve.

We deserve far better!
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« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2010, 06:47:58 PM »

I totally agree, it was all about the infatuation, the honeymoon passion. If he felt I was trying to get out, he chase me, but when things were "close to normal stability" for a couple of days, the drama was back.

There is no empathy, I asked him once if he knew how I felt and he could not answer. It is all about their pleasure, the sex is too important, but the bonding only lasts for 24 hours... .at least this is my experience.
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« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2010, 06:50:08 PM »

I forgot to add Mine is on Match.com, that is where he found his previous girlfriend...
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« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2010, 06:45:00 AM »

Randi, he might have meant Oxytocin. There have been reports about this.

Two articles:

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8020464/Oxytocin-the-love-hormone-could-cure-shyness.html

www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/aug/13/oxytocin-pair-bonding-social



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« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2010, 08:13:32 AM »

Im sure mine had strange thoughts about love, he was strange period.
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« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2010, 01:32:22 PM »

Artist,

Yes to your question. It always felt like she craved the attention from men and loved the honeymoon period before she got bored or the guys allegedly left. Quite a few it appears have ditched her on her birthday for some reason (Of course the reason is that they couldn't deal with her, but I did always wonder why her birthday was such a  focal point). I even asked her about the relationship with a guy from another country who worked on the cruise ship and she indicated that she loved the fantasy part of it.

Medical community has indicated that PwBPD lack the bonding chemicals or great enough quantity of them (I can't remember which) to develop long and sustained relationships and that sex does raise those levels that's why they can show some insight and depth after sex. However, absent continous sex, they don't trust their partners and they constantly chase relationships for the fill the void as they believe that will end their misery/pain.

In my case I too got the not attracted to you part as well and it's a bunch of crap really. It means that they realize that you've run your course and you don't give them those same feelings that they got at the beginning and they need the chase and chemical process of chasing a new relationship (i.e recycling). They're incapable of developing the chemical bonding that nons do so they're ultimately trapped into repeating the honeymoon period over and over again.

I've never heard of anything about "bonding chemicals."                         

Hi Randy, I was talking about OXytocin and it's role in the bonding process
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