I have been made to feel like a crazy stalker. I feel sick and anxious everyday

[Diana82]

Hi all

I've been trying to move forwards but every day I wake up feeling sick in the stomach.

And the reason is because my exBPDgf (same sex relationship) has made me feel like a crazy stalker in every possible way. I feel utterly humiliated. And it seems to be getting worse.

My ex dumped me 5 months ago... .  but it's been a long painful 5 months of manipulative silence.  We'd been together for 3 years in a loving relationship. But she dumped me over me telling her she's too inconsistent and defensive and we ended up having a text fight too (she equally participated). 

She is a huge drama queen and was always prone to playing the victim (possible HPD too) . In any argument we had, she'd start sobbing and saying her "heart is pounding"  or she'd have a panic attack.

After dumping me, she told me I 'burnt her" and "to leave her alone".

She had always told me every woman she had dated or had a r/ship with had either abused/harassed or stalked her in some way. She seemed to like to garner sympathy and had this heightened sense of abuse. It was very strange. But I started to catch on that her stories didn't add up... which lead me the break up fight.

She then told me my texts (in the argument) were a form of 'harassment' and then told me that 'every day she has to hide her phone in her handbag because she doesn't know what's coming from (me)!"  which was completely exaggerated.  I only ever sent her sweet messages 

After dumping me... I tried to reconcile with her... .  tried calling her a few times... sent her handwritten apologetic letter in her letterbox (which was stupid on reflection).  She completely ignored me... as if I was invisible.

And she ended up changing her number!  It was a very drastic measure which I still find insulting.  Then she blocked me on Facebook.

I let things be for 1 month and then politely asked her to return my things which I left at her house.  She was completely silent... .  still.

I wasn't even asking to reconcile anymore and she was still silent.  Then one night, she dumped three books of mine on the sidewalk by my house. No note or anything.  It was so cold. I had even asked her what I should do with her things she left at my place and she wouldn't respond.

The thing is... she didn't drop off all my things. So I then had to write to her again to request her to drop off the rest of it  (jewellery, clothing etc).

Silence. 1.5 months rolled by and I heard nothing from her.

I was going to forget about my stuff... but then I saw my ex driving around happily in her car (she lives near me). And I was furious. It just reminded me of the fact that she was completely ignoring me and wasn't returning what was rightfully mine.

I decided to send her another email saying that I have waited 1.5 months for my things and it's now unacceptable. She ignored it- but I could tell she had read it!

I called the police to ask for advice. I also said that my ex changed her number and I was worried she may even go as far as get a RO against me! They advised me that it's actually theft if my ex is deliberately witholding my stuff and that I have every right to go to her apartment to ring her bell, if she keeps ignoring me.

So I went to her apartment one day... buzzed on her buzzer... .  no reply. But her car was in her drive way! So I then had to leave a note on her car and ask again to please return my things this week. By this point, I felt like a real stalker.

What do you know?  She ignores me.

So I should have let it go... but I was already this far and wanted my stuff back on principle.

So I messaged her flat mate/best friend on Facebook saying  "Hi there. I'm sorry to bother you about this but I came by your apartment to collect my things and nobody was home. Is there  a better time to come and collect my things? or would you mind assisting with a swap of items? Thanks"

He calls me up very agitated and tells me my ex "doesn't have my stuff". And then he goes "Oh... she does have a hair dryer! I can drop it off to you"

And I'm thinking... .  I don't care about the hair dryer... I wanted my ring and my clothes. I wasn't getting through to him. And the call ended.

I then texted him saying  "Can you please ask my ex to give me a quick call so I can explain what it is I left at her house and where? I just want to sort this out... and if she doesn't have my things, she should have the decency to tell me she has lost them"

He calls me furious and says "I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! She wants you OUT OF HER LIFE. OUT!  She doesn't want anything to do with you! You have tried contacting her non stop for months! it's UNACCEPtABLE! IT'S BIZARRE!"

I couldn't get a word in but eventually I said  "Hang on... I contacted her to retrieve my things? She has ignored me for months. That is unacceptable!"

He talked over me and said  "You won't stop contacting her! you need to MOVE ON.  You will NEVER get closure from her!  Do not contact her again! Do not contact her family!"

:'(

And he hung up.  What a crazy!

So I have not contacted my ex for 3 months. Completely gone NC. Quite frankly, I am freaked out after that conversation. My ex must have spoken very badly of me and not even told her best friend that I was trying to get my things back for months. I can see that she deliberately ignored me for months and she knew that I would then keep contacting her so she could prove I was "harassing" her.

Since all this, I heard through one mutual friend that my ex said I was a crazy "harasser".  Other mutual friends have gone very quiet on me.

Also, I went on two dates with women since and mysteriously they have stopped contacting me all together for no reason. And my ex is on the same dating site as me.

The gay community is so tight knit and small in my hometown, that I feel my ex has is capable of ruining my credibility (sounds like she is already trying to).

This is a woman who has smeared all of her exes... and even lied about one woman stalking her, another trying to rape her etc. It's truly sick.

I feel like she is dangerous and capable of a lot of smearing.  My friends advise me to "move on"  and that they know I am honest and she's unstable.

But how do I get over feeling so sick over this? I've never been made to feel like a crazy or a stalker or anything such in my life. I'm just waiting for the day when someone asks me "is it TRUE you abused her?"

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hi Diana

I've read most of your posts and can see how upset and anxious you are over the breakup with your g/f. I'm so sorry for how you have been feeling and that you are still so devestated.

I also can relate to the small town/clique type thing as I too am lesbian and know how "small" the community can seem.  Everyone has dated everyone else AND their exes, right? I get that.

After having been "victim" to this kind of drama, the best defense of myself was to step back, stay out of the community for a time, even if it meant going places alone, and doing things I'd normally do with friends, I'd do them alone.  Eventually, these kind of smear campaigns are usually seen for what they are by the intelligent women in the group, baseless sour grapes by the X!

It all felt rather grade-school(ish) to me at the time, *shivers*

I think your friends gave you great advice about moving on, it really is the ONLY way to get on with the actual living of life.  Maybe you could think of it this way?... .  why in the world would you let this person who hurt you so badly take any more precious time away from you?  Yes, I understand she has your material possessions, but unless there are diamonds and rubies, isn't your freedom from the emotional turmoil that keeps churning inside of you more important?

I know you want answers to your questions, honestly? I did too, but? one of the things about a break-up with a pwBPD, is that we rarely if ever get answers to the why, therefore, we need to accept the no answers at some point.  I know you are not there yet, but in order to get off this merry-go-round of analysis, please begin to consider that in all probability there are no answers.  Only hypothesis, only the experience of others, everyone being unique with different factors affecting the various individual situations.

Don't you want to be free to breathe in and out without thinking of her? I'm afraid her bitterness/illness is infecting you to the point that you are unable to move forward.   I can hear in all of your posts how blindsided you were, we ALL were here on this site!  BPD has entered our lives without our permission, and we have to figure out how to live with the knowledge, and move forward taking all that we know into our future relationships.

I wish for you the ability to wake up and not think of her, to find your joy in the fact that you are alive and away from her drama, free from being afraid to be the awesome person you were destined to be!

Big hugs

CiF

[elemental]

What are your things worth to you?

Are they worth keeping you stuck, trying to re-engage, being called a stalker, the aggrivation of it frustrating you and making you feel like you are being screwed about?

Pretty soon this becomes self fulfilling.

It's been months. Grieve as you need to. Detach from these physical objects right now. It's giving you validation in your mind to go chasing after. It's giving you a reason to keep calling, emailing, going over to her place.

Stop. Let go of this hook.

I don't know the monetary value of your ring and clothing. It would have to be worth a fortune for you to continue trying to retrieve them under the conditions you are struggling with.

Let go of it so you can do the most important thing here: heal.

[Diana82]

Thanks guys, but were you smeared in a similar way and almost manipulated into contacting your ex to either retrieve your stuff/apologise only to be met with cold silence?

And anyone here then branded as a 'harasser'?

I gave up on my stuff after her friend abused me on the phone. I was utterly freaked out! I have never known such hostility.

My staff included a ring my Mum bought me (sentimental), clothing, an appliance and my watch. The ring was the most important. But apparently she doesn't have them. Maybe I lost my ring! Maybe she lost it! Who knows.

But the thing is, she didn't have the decency to tell me this herself. Would it have been so hard to drop me a one liner?  After being together for so long it's normal to do an exchange of stuff. She knew I was contacting her for 1.5 months and she deliberately ignored me... knowing full well this would infuriate me.

I guess it is all consistent... she is silent when I apologise... changes her number ... .  so why would she then reply about my stuff?

[Elsegundo]

Diana: I'm sorry you're so hurt right now.  I truly feel for you.

I'm going to say something worth thinking about: It's entirely possible that the person you knew will never speak to you again.  

If she does, she may only show disdain for you.  

She may never calmly sit with you in a room, or hear what you have to say.  It just may not ever happen.  No matter what.

That's what the disorder can do.  It's the hardest part to accept, I think.

[Diana82]

Yes... this person is not the woman I thought I was with for 3 years.

Even my family are stunned at how cold she is.

It's funny that my ex claimed I "burnt her" and that I am apparently "in the top list of people who have hurt her" (which includes a potential rapist ex, her childhood bullies and a stalker).

Yet she has inflicted such pain on me ...

She dumped me over a fight. Yet is acting like the victim who had been burned by a crazy woman!

[Diana82]

Elemental> I should have forgotten about my stuff all together.

I could have avoided the pain and anguish of being further ignored.

I could have avoided being abused on the phone by her friend.

But, it's normal (to me) to be able to contact an ex to request they return your things. Particularly if you've been together for a lengthy time. Do you agree?

What isn't normal is her hostility, dumping a quarter of my stuff on my sidewalk in the night, and not revealing what happened to my other stuff. And then getting her  friend to bark at me for contacting her.

She is so nasty. Our fight was me being very direct and saying she is too inconsistent and possibly deceptive.

But I did nothing to warrant such hostility and nastiness.

I may understand this behaviour  if I cheated on her.

The bad thing is- I even believed she was a "victim" all through our relationship. I believed all her exes were crazy abusive women. She has such conviction and sincerity and it's only cos her stories didn't add up that I started to doubt her.

So there's likely to be a huge pool of people out there (she has loads of gay and straight contacts) whom have been told about my "harassing" ways

[elemental]

Yes, I was smeared.

Like a bug on a windshield.

At numerous points during my life. I can't decide if how my ex husband chose to handle our divorce on his side is worse than what I had to come to terms with due to my BPDbf trying to smooth things over with HIS ex by hiding me, saying I am so crap, etc.

What I did with ex husband was hold my head up and ignore him and all the people he sucked into things. I was accused of abusing my son, physically, emotionally, sexually. People were shouting at me in the grocery store. I lost my business, my reputation, my credit score, and my feeling of being safe in this world.

I did win custody of my son because I knew then what battles were worth fighting. To he** with that woman who shouted at me. I have a grown up son in college who is thriving and smart and all the things I could have wished for.

I know what it is like.

Turn your back on this woman and expend your effort towards healing yourself. Because all those people she is lying to you about? They don't matter like YOU matter.

[seeking balance]

Honestly Diana - if somoene came to these boards and posted YOUR part of the story as their ex... .  we would all say "run".

We have all been painted black, we have all lost friends, we have all had to rebuild.

At 200+ posts, you are in the exact same space - have you thought about what you are looking for from this forum?

I know you feel like this is unfair or you just need someone to understand - we do.

Do you just want to vent or do you want to actively move past this?  Again, go back and read all of your posts... .  you are in the same stuck place - do you think maybe it is time to think about getting professional help?  Most of us here have gone to therapy - it helps.

[HowPredictable]

But, it's normal (to me) to be able to contact an ex to request they return your things. Particularly if you've been together for a lengthy time. Do you agree?

It doesn't matter whether we agree, disagree, or sit on the fence.   It doesn't matter whether we all add our collective support to your sense of indignation.   Because relationships with pwBPD are not "normal".   By definition, these people have disordered thought processes, and therefore disordered behaviour.

In short:  You are expecting normal behavior from someone who is not capable of it.  

And I say this as someone who has been where you are:   At some point we have to come to grips with the fact that it is perhaps our own control issues that is keeping us mired in a situation where we are trying to influence the behaviour of someone who is not playing by our rules, or by the rules of what we consider "normal".   This need for control is something you have to confront within yourself.    

But I did nothing to warrant such hostility and nastiness.

I may understand this behaviour  if I cheated on her.

Again -- and with all due consideration of your feelings -- I know it matters to YOU that you didn't deserve her treatment.  But it simply doesn't matter to the disorder.  And the disorder calls all the shots.

I will add my voice to that of Seeking Balance, at some point you may consider the possibility that you are stagnating in your own healing.  To put it bluntly, Diana82:  You are stuck trying to re-write  the past, and fix the unfixable.

[Diana82]

Thank you all for your posts.

Yes, I am considering seeing a Therapist next week who actually did a thesis in BPD. She may be able to help me through this too...

I guess I just want to hear how others have dealt with being called a "harasser" and waking up every morning and it's THERE.  I wish I had amnesia... so I can forget I ever met this woman. 

My head knows I'm a good person and I did not "harass" her (even though I did contact her a lot).  But, my heart feels crushed over being lumped with this label

I know it's all hogwash. But it still sickens me that her family think of me this way. These people who treated me like family... .  and her friends think this... .  and her networks... and possibly mutual friends.

Yes, I can walk away. Yes, I can turn my back on her.

But what do I do- the day I hear she has said I abused her?  It's highly likely.  This woman has lied about almost being raped... .  and lied about a mutual friend stalking her (when she never did such).

But my ex isn't stupid enough to ever go to the cops and make an actual accusation. She' also a trained lawyer so she would know about slander.

But she seems to get away with saying this stuff about people anyway! this mutual friend's credibility has been questioned a lot in the community too... since my ex branded her a crazy nut stalker

[Diana82]

seeking balance> that was a little rude.

[redfeather]

Diana82,

I think what everyone is trying to say is quite true... you cannot fix crazy! Logic does not work in the face of mental illness, never has never will. You can stand figuratively at her door asking to be given answers and your belongings but she is not ready willing or able to give you that and you are playing right into her hand.

My ex's actions at the end of our relationship closely mirror your own experience ie... .  she left without saying goodbye. I called her once not begging but to wish her well and then GOT AWAY from her as fast as my legs would run. By running away and quitting to try and figure her out I saved myself a ton of heartache. I knew from past involvement there is ONLY one way to get over a BPD and that is to RUN and go No Contact period end of story. After running for your life in  the other direction then try answering the following ( being fearless and thorough in the process):

1) Why would you let someone who purportedly loved you treat you so bad ?

2) How can you restore your self esteem/worth without obtaining answers from her? She is gone btw in true BPD fashion.

3) Your internal emotional construct encourages you to "rescue" others why is that?

4) what can you do daily to stop ruminating over this clearly troubled woman? She left she is gone and for now she isnt coming back.

Also seeking balance gives very good advice and he is correct you are indeed stuck and we are trying to help get the FOCUS onto you NOT her... .  She is gone.

regards,

Redfeather  

[Diana82]

thanks red feather...

I know I need to focus on me.

But how did you find our your ex is a BPD?  or are you assuming?   

I have thought my ex was either a bipolar or BPD. But she could just be a nasty b*tch from hell.  Maybe it's all speculation

I do want to know how best to pick the signs early on with these disorders/mental illnesses. How to see through manipulation and lies early on... (I have a delayed reaction).

Unfortunately, I have dated two crazys in a row. One woman who suffered depression and was a pathological liar... followed by this recent woman who could be bipolar or BPD who exaggerated abuse stories. 

Not a good run :s

I'm rather disturbed and most likely troubled myself now... .  since being with these two women in a row.  For some reason I haven't caught on to their lying and instabilities until far deep into the relationship... .  when I'm in love and have a lot to lose.

Hence why when I found out my recent ex's stories didn't add up and started to suspect she may be prone to playing the victim or even unstable- I was so conflicted about whether or not to leave or stay. I loved her a lot... .  but could clearly see the issues were there. 

For some reason both women have chosen to lie to me... .  deep into the relationship.

Both women have feared abandonment and have lied. Yet both women abandoned me in the end.

[BentNotBroken]

That sounds like an excellent place to start with the therapist. If the goal is to have healthier relationships in the future, we need to root out the problems in ourselves that "blinded us" to the flaws of the other.

I know I wanted to make up for the bad relationships in my past that were largely my fault. Each time a red flag popped up I would acknowledge it, but I would minimize it as something that would later be fixed, or that I was not going to bail on her, because she had suffered such horrific circumstances. I need to pay closer attention and set boundaries that I don't bend on. Even if it means that I will be alone for a very long time.

[Diana82]

what were some of the red flags?

[BentNotBroken]

This was with my BPDex: 1.Oversharing--too much too soon. I knew about her "victimhood" within the 1st two weeks I had known her. Abusive, violent alcoholic ex husband & father--it turns out neither one was.

2. Too intimate physically too soon. She ratcheted up the pressure to get me alone very early in the RS.

3. Substance abuse issues. Nuff said

Etc.

There is a good thread on this--search for "what were the red flags"

[refuge]

yea I feel your pain,I was painted triple black

they really do become afraid of you ,and they really do mean everything they say!... .  im reminded of the line by "Alice" in the looking glass- as she says the queen mother "It's a poor sort of memory that works backwards"

the good news is most of the people who have been in her life for any amount of time probably see the same dynamic you do... .  they can only get away with it so many times ... .  

[ambi]

since being with these two women in a row.  For some reason I haven't caught on to their lying and instabilities until far deep into the relationship... .  when I'm in love and have a lot to lose.

I spent a lot of time trying to understand my pwBPD - why did he do this, did he mean that, how could he... .     It didn't matter what he was thinking or feeling or why he was doing that to me.  The only thing I could change was my response to him.  And, that meant I had to dig into what button it pushed in me.  I think you're going to have to shift the focus from why she does what she does, to what button it pushes in you.   

So, Diana82, why do you think you were attracted to these two women and overlooked  until you were too emotionally involved to feel you could react?  Can you look back at the r/s and see      that you overlooked? 

[Diana82]

I am starting to work through why I decided to miss the red flags when I knew they were there.

And I believe it's because my recent exBPDgf was a bit of a rebound for me,  to be honest.

I had just been through an awful break up with the previous woman. We had broken up a year earlier (because of her lying) and then got back together... only to find that she had basically gone for two job interviews for an overseas job without telling me. And she announced randomly that she has landed a job overseas and she ended up going. So she betrayed my trust again.

It was a bad end.  But what helped me quickly move on was that I thought I could do much better than that lying piece of crap.    So I ended up going on a date a month later with this girl (the exBPD) and we hit it off straight away.

What I liked about my exBPD was that she was so open. No showing off about her wonderful sexual history.

She didn't seem to have any bravado about her. My other ex lied about her sexual history to "appeal" to me. She'd make up sex acts she did with men (go figure) to sound adventurous.  And when I met this woman (my exBPD), she was honest up front and said "Nope, never been with a man- never wanted to"  and then told me she hadn't had many girlfriends but was just looking for someone compatible.

Over the next few weeks of dating though, she opened up even more.

But the talk turned to trash talking. She couldn't say one nice thing about her exes. 

She started to tell me how her first ex was 'frigid' and they hadn't had sex for 6 months. Apparently they had to go to couples counselling but that didn't help and my ex said by the end she was "climbing the walls".  She then said this ex was unattractive.  She also told me that I was the "first woman she had had an orgasm with" and added  "that should give you an ego boost!"

I often wondered how she could stay with someone who didn't find her attractive and didn't want to sleep with her for 6 months? (whom didn't give her reasons).

Then she told me the second woman she was with emotionally abused her... .  sexually degraded her.

She'd tell me how neither women found her attractive. She portrayed herself as this poor sod whom nobody found attractive. Someone who was waiting for her "Queen" as she put it... to rescue her and make her feel wanted.

I remember thinking at the time ... Man... she is really open about her awful exes... a little TOO open! and I kept thinking that I'd be too embarrassed to say half the stuff she revealed.

I didn't realise at the time... my ex was playing the victim card to reel me in.

[Diana82]

Did anyone else's exBPD trash talk their exes to death in the beginning?

This should have been my number one red flag. You should be able to at least say 1 nice thing about someone you spent so long with.

And my exBPD also was still in touch with her ex fling/turned friend whom she brutally cut off after an argument they had (this was 3 months into our relationship).And she hadn't even told this woman that she'd been seeing me for 3 months?  yet they were "friends" who spoke regularly over text/phone.

So...

1. My ex was deceptive to this ex fling/turned friend of hers because she didn't tell her she was seeing me- a sign she was deceptive early on 

2. She brutally cut this ex friend of hers out of her life after an argument!  I should have seen this would happen to me one day.

[Rose Tiger]

A red flag I missed with the ex was his talk of his previous wife and how awful she was to him, he took no responsibility in the demise of their marriage.  A healthy person would say, I made mistakes, she made mistakes, that sort of thing.

Do you have anything valuable of her's?  I see this as the only leverage you have right now.

Oh, and believe me, people don't care.  I was so worried about what coworkers would think of my divorce.  She is a loser.  He dumped her because she is bad.  I had it all worked up that they would think that.  It was gossip for about a day.  People are wrapped up with their own problems.  Our dilemmas are short lived in their thoughts.    Their way to cope (our exes) is to drum up sympathy, it worked on me, it worked on your partner's flatmate.  It was all a pile of lies.  The truth has a way of working through, yep.  Hang in there.

[Suzn]

Diana I know exactly what you're going through. Exactly. I feared this too, big time.

But what do I do- the day I hear she has said I abused her?  It's highly likely. 

See, our stories are really similar. The gay community I live in here is small too. Everyone knows everyone for the most part. And the majority know my ex and I. So I know exactly how hard this is for you.

My ex lied about me too. Big time lies, ones that could get me arrested if they were true, just like you. She was convincing too. So much so that I had people showing up at my home wanting to hurt me. I lived in fear for months. I too had recently ended another relationship before I met my exBPDgf.

I also found it very hard to let go of all the memories of all the terrible things I had witnessed and the things she did to me. When it consumes all your thoughts, this is called ruminating or spinning. It doesn't change the fact that these things happened, what it does is continue the hurt. The truth of the matter now is that you are continuing to relive this over and over.

I was definitely living in victim hood. Here's what I realized. First, you can't control what other people are going to say, your actions will eventually tell the tale. If you act like a stalker, guess what people are going to say?

Second, and this is the hard one, I wasn't a victim in this. I chose to stay, for 5 years. There were red flags slapping me in the face the whole time, I ignored them. At this point, this became about me and my issues.

I stayed because I had my little family with her and her children, it was an illusion of a family I'd always wanted. At the time I would have rather have my family than be alone.

Why did you ignore flags stay? (with either of these women)

[bk224]

My situation seems to resemble your in that I also ended up feeling crazy, like I was a stalker, etc. My ex never really took responsibility for her part in any miscommunication between us. Everything was always my fault. She broke up via text, came back, broke up again via text, then ignored me for months. I tried to reestablish contact and it all got crazy again because when I tried to go from just text to actually talking face to face, something we had never done after a bizarre text argument during which she broke up with me, she cancelled at the last minute. During each text argument I tried to call her to talk about what was happening as I could really see things going awry but she always had an excuse for why she couldn't answer the phone but could only text. And then she'd cut things off.

I so desperately wanted to talk to her once, face to face, about all the misunderstandings, etc. but she ended up telling me that I had violated her boundaries on many occasions, that she didn't want to be friends with me for that reason, etc. I was so off balance that I ended up apologizing for all of these things I didn't believe I had done. Later I kicked myself, thinking 'what boundaries?, what is she talking about? Why did I apologize?' Once again she had turned a situation around so that she was the victim. But I knew if I made contact one more time it would just make me look totally unbalanced and feed the 'victim' story.

It killed me but, Diana, here is the tough part. I had become obsessed with her, because... .  I felt so unjustly accused, so frustrated that every time I tried to talk about issues she refused to see me, so depressed about being abandoned. My head was spinning and I ruminated endlessly. I was in therapy the whole time but I was just beside myself with all of it... .  and the longing, missing her and the closeness we had shared long ago, the nice things about her--somehow thinking if she had enough space it could be revived.

I hit rock bottom the evening I went to her house and asked her for just a few minutes to talk and she told me to leave, wouldn't answer her door, told me I was trespassing. I went home feeling humiliated. I had been feeling broken for months. I then decided it was time for me to go back on medication. That I couldn't break out of the painful rumination; I couldn't let go and break out of the cycle without help. Within days of taking sertraline, my mood began to lift, I felt relief to be free of her and my ruminations decreased by at least 50%. I was able to LET GO. (Oh and I also started attending Love Addicts Anonymous meetings to try to figure out why I was attracted to people who ended up abusing me and why I KEPT MYSELF  in those relationships by going back for more punishment--and how my own insecurities may have played into the whole mess.)

I don't know you and don't want, can't really, know your situation, but you do seem possibly caught in a cycle and having a hard time breaking out, which sort of makes you seem like the 'crazy' one. That's how I felt... .  like somehow my association with this person, who left me so confused and hurt, dazed, had exacerbated my own issues and I was becoming a bit 'crazy'. It scared me, still does. But, they were my issues, holding on--not letting go.

The best thing you can do is find a way to break free from thinking about her so you can get on with your life, therapy, meds, friends, whatever it takes.

I am still working on myself and hoping I never have a relationship that feels that bad again (had two in a row!).

[really]

Diana,

I understand your frustration.  Look at my posts from today... .  

As per BK's experience my ex did not take any responsibility for the communicatin issues.   My ex broke up by text, came back, then broke up, then when I tried to speak to her / get closure / get understanding, I was abused, ridiculed, ignored, defamed, and had the police called on me.   

I was told how my behaviour (in contacting her) was completely unacceptable... .  no acknowledgement of the affair or the huge contradictions with what she had said... Like BK I have apologised over things for evetrything.    And then kept thinking why did I apologise.   

Her latest has been to make herself a victim with her employer... I have ruminated endlessly.    I have not been in therapy but am going to start soon and join a CODA group.

I am sitting here shaking after my final failed attempt to get any honesty out of her.  I feel sick and ashamed.

Many of us have been caught in this cycle.   

So you don't make any of the many mistakes I have made, I encourage you to find ways as BK has suggested to break free from thinking about her.   I know just how painful and difficult that is.  I really really do.

[Diana82]

Other red flags include:

1. She was still in touch with this 'emotionally abusive" and "sexually degrading" ex fling/turned friend woman who lived interstate. They seemed to have a complicated friendship. And the friend would text my ex daily and my ex told me she'd just "ignore the texts". Apparently.   I had been dating my exBPD for 3 months, and she still didn't tell this 'friend' that she'd started seeing me.   Her excuse was "I don't want to get into the drama... it will cause all this drama and she'll start asking questions etc. I'm not even close with her these days and am just 'managing' the friendship. She lives interstate so I'll never see her anyway".   I should have not believed her-  what kind of 'friend' is not told about your new relationship?

2. She had planned to meet this ex fling-turned-friend on a trip to Thailand (she was going to with her parents for NYE) before she met me. And even though she we'd be dating for 3 months, she was still going to see this woman for a drink in Thailand. And this is a woman who has no idea that she is seeing someone and is likely to try to make a move.   I should have seen this as deceptive (from my ex).  This other woman had no clue she was seeing someone and was expecting to catch up and most likely "have some fun".  This was an early sign my ex was deceptive.

3. They got into a fight over text and my ex actually forwarded me their text fight (from Thailand)! I had to read through a fight with her ex-fling-turned-friend.  Then my ex brutally cuts this woman off and blocks her on facebook... .  ignores all her calls. Ends it.  I should have known that this woman was most likely my ex's back up. And I should have taken note of how cruelly she was treated and thought that could happen to me too- and it did.


4. My ex changed months into the relationship to make herself the 'desirable' one. No longer was she the poor sod who nobody found attractive. She started telling me all these women had been obsessed with her... stalked her... .  tried to grope her everywhere she went. I couldn't keep up... .  I should have run

5. She excessively spoke about how hot men are things like  "I was looking at his ankles... .  his legs... .  I just went into a trance"   and pointing out random hot men to me (weird for a lesbian)

6. She told me she had been bullied throughout her childhood and that her parents did 'nothing' but told her she is too 'sensitive' and needs to toughen up. She was very resentful of her parents even at age 27. She was deeply troubled over it and only told me about this.  She quit therapy after 3 sessions.

7. She was emotionally attached to her family and had severe separation anxiety. Yet she didn't seem 'close' to her family... but needed them for her 'sanity'- her own words. And again- didn't confide in them about being bullied.

8. She told me I was her true love... quite early on. I couldn't say this back to her (I loved her but didn't consider her my 'true love' at that point).

[Suzn]

I can see how all of that would be concerning to you.   

So, why did you stay Diana? (with either of these women?)

[Diana82]

Rose Tiger>

RE:  Do you have anything valuable of her's?  I see this as the only leverage you have right now.

Well, I had her fleece jacket, books and some of her phD files. I asked her a number of times what she would like me to do with these... if we can arrange a swap of items or where I can leave them (she lives in a flat).

NO response.

She obviously didn't care enough about the stuff to even say "It's ok, I don't need the stuff... .  "

I just got silence 

I have been told by her flat mate that she "does not have the rest of my stuff"  and to "never contact her again" because "she wants me OUT of her life".

I was also told by her flat mate that I will "NEVER get closure from her!"

Charming, isn't it.

[Diana82]

Suzn> what kinds of things did your ex say about you?

Has anyone else here been called a "harasser"?

[Diana82]

thanks bk244...

I was made to feel like the one with 'issues'.

When my ex and I had the argument via text, I'd also just argued with my Mum so I was super emotional.

When my ex was dumping me she said:

1. "You need HELP!  You have anger issues and issues with your Mum!"

2.  "You were burnt by your ex and now you're a VERY suspicious person! you have baggage!

3.  "Your texts are a form of HARASSMENT! You're a text terroriser!"

4.  "You have a mean streak"


Unfortunately all of her words really upset me and I ended up profusely apologising for telling her off in the first place 

... .  Not sure if you have read my other posts... but my ex dumped me because we had a fight over me telling her she is way too inconsistent (her stories and actions kept changing) and too defensive over being questioned.

I ended up feeling like I did have a problem and have even questioned myself... am I too suspicious like my ex said I was?

[maria1]

Hi Diana

I don't think anybody has been rude to you on here. I think people want you to look at YOUR behaviour. Each time you say yes yes yes I'm doing that and you immediately take it straight back to the OTHER people you have had relationships with.

The common denominator is you. That isn't meant to be harsh. Try to focus away from the exes. What did you do that was unfair on them? Anything? It can't all be their fault and the only mistake we make is ignoring the red flags.

It's hard stuff to face.

I blamed my ex for things that weren't his fault. I blamed the disorder (when I first found out about BPD) for things that weren't really to do with BPD. It was much easier doing that than realising I f***ed up the relationship too.

If your ex asked you to stop contacting her and you continued then you were actually harassing her over that 6 week period. We all do things we aren't proud of. I found it easier to move on when I could admit those things but it was horrible facing them.

My ex would go off into little emotional adventures with other women. I don't know if he slept with them but I think he probably didn't. After we split and NC and time we eventually spent some time talking. He said I used to tell him to find himself a nice local woman. I said oh no I didn't say that. He said YES YOU DID. I stopped resisting and suddenly realised OH MY GOD YES I DID.

So you see there's the disorder in him not wanting to take responsibility for stuff but why on earth would I say that to someone I loved? How would that have made him feel? What's going on inside me that would say that? Then I realised I did a similar thing in the relationship before that. I started to see the patterns. NOT IN THEM BUT IN ME.

I hope this makes some sense to you and wish you all the best with your healing

[Diana82]

Thanks Maria. Actually, unlike my ex, I am able to see my contribution to the relationship demise.

I have also stated here a few times that I am a ‘rescuer’. This is taking responsibility for me and I’m aware that this is a strong tendency of mine and most likely made me stay with my ex (victim). I also had a need to be idealised in the beginning because I had been hurt before. So it worked…then.

If you view my other threads, I have also said I have felt guilty about  ‘attacking’ my ex via text message in the break up fight. I have regretted that I didn’t confront her in a calmer manner and instead, allowed my frustrations to fester and rot and then lashed out when she snapped at me.

I did see red flags, I suspected my was could be unstable, I'd seen her brutally cut others off- and I chose to stay. Thinking that things would improve with patience.  I don't believe in just quitting relationships. I am fiercely loyal and forgiving... .  and my 'fixer' mentality makes me want to fix a relationship too.

I loved my ex. And I was never deceptive with my her. I did not treat her badly, nor did I punish her with silence and discard her like trash. I don’t have that in me and I don’t think I could actually live with myself if I treated someone like that.

And this is exactly why I am here. Because I need to come to terms with how someone who once claimed to adore me, and proclaimed her love and attachment to me 2 days earlier... then discards me as if I am nothing and barks that I harass her, when she sends me equally long messages and is equally rude.

I treated my ex well over 3 years. I was there for her in her darkest hours.

Someone... all of that has been forgotten due to an argument.

Focusing on myself is definitely good and I am seeing a therapist who specialises in BPD. Hearing other people’s stories here is certainly making me feel less isolated as well.

[Diana82]

sorry typo in above thread I meant to say *some how... .    not someone...

I also said some silly things throughout the relationship... I slipped up every now and then.

But I was not deceptive with my ex.  Nor, did I manipulate her.

My ex would misinterpret things to buggery. She had her own insecurities about me leaving her and I was growing weary of trying to prove my devotion to her.

All I wanted from her, was some consistency. To understand who she was. I could not keep up with her change of stories of her abusive past... and she'd dramatically shift her opinions and actions and never want to be pulled up or questioned over any of it. And she would bark at you if you ever tried.

The horrible irony for me is that my ex was so worried I'd abandon her she resorted to lying about herself... yet, she is the one who abandoned me in the end.

[happiness68]

BPD's abandon when they have the sense of being abandoned themselves.  My story ended just like that too.  I'm sure he thought I was going to leave him.  I had no intention of doing so.

I had to smile when I read "I also said some silly things throughout the relationship... I slipped up every now and then".  Me too Diana82 and the funny thing is I slipped up too every now and again.  He told me when were getting back together after a few weeks split that he knew that I'd "slip up" every now again and was prepared for it, but the first time I did, he lost it.  Any excuse ... .  

The abandonment thing though, it's so very sad. If only they knew how loved they were and what went through our heads as nons, it would really make life so much easier. 

[ambi]

I was made to feel like the one with 'issues'.

In the beginning, he and I both believed everything was my fault.  Moving forward, I thought everything was his fault and he thought everything was my fault.  And, then in the detaching phase, I thought some things were my fault and some things were his fault.  He still thinks everything is my fault.

Fault only mattered in so much as it took for me to realize that loving him or not - that r/s was very unhealthy for *both* of us.  We triggered the heck out of each other.  I had to figure out why I was attracted to him and why I was doing what I was doing because I really don't want to repeat this kind of r/s again in my life.


You listed the red flags you overlooked.  Now dig into what felt 'familiar' to you with her and the woman before her, that drew you to the r/s.  

Maria - I'm laughing at this... .  

After we split and NC and time we eventually spent some time talking. He said I used to tell him to find himself a nice local woman. I said oh no I didn't say that. He said YES YOU DID. I stopped resisting and suddenly realised OH MY GOD YES I DID.

I had a slight variation on the word "local" but I told mine the same thing.  And, I suspect he also took me up on that literal statement during the r/s.  I know it's not funny, but it sort of is in restrospect.

[maria1]

I wish that we could see quicker that we have an equal part in the relationship! Just because someone has BPD traits doesn't make them any more at fault actually. Why should it? It can make us feel a whole lot less responsible though and give us a nice easy out of any responsibility. I see that happening on the leaving board over and over- why did I get used, poor blameless me? Two people get what they get out of a relationship. Things are different when children are involved but if I choose to stay in a relationships where I am lied to and treated badly then I have to question why. Because choosing to stay is my responsibility.

Sometimes we aren't truthful with our SOs in relationships. Sometimes it takes one big argument for us to see the real person we've been trying to hide from ourselves. It all works both ways. BPD is an attachment disorder and if your ex is BPD she will push you away and treat you bad because she has serious attachment issues. That's it. That's your answer when it comes to her. So you can't be together because she is mentally ill. I became ill and put my own needs and my own children's need aside for my ex boyfriend. He didn't make me do that- I chose to and more fool me. I think without children I'd have ended up dead if I'd stayed in the relationship. I don't blame him for any of that. I do however blame myself, particularly because I neglected my kids needs for those of a grown man.

So I've turned to ME. My family, my history. And it isn't as pretty as I've always lead myself to believe. And I'm going to be working on me for the rest of my life. I'm grateful for my BPD relationship now because I'd never have seen all this without it. And I can remember the good times and the bad times and it doesn't cause me pain now.

Ambi- I think it's quite funny too; it's funny that I could manage to forget something I actually said in different ways many times to him. I didn't help him feel secure in any way. He often asked me to define our relationship- I always refused. He would hint at wanting more, I would withdraw. I fed into his BPD traits and he fed into my codependent and narcissistic traits. I pushed when he pulled! He pushed and I pulled!

[bk224]

Me too. I also pushed when she pulled, pulled mightily when she pushed. There were times when she wanted to talk for clarity and I didn't refuse, but couldn't get the words out clearly for fear that if I really spoke my mind, she'd leave. I had a hard time being as close as she wanted at times, but I did not want the relationship to end and was willing to work. But as I tried harder and harder to be present, I think she got scared with the closeness. I have my own issues and together we did just trigger the heck out of each other. Very sad for me and I want to put it in the past and try to be healthier. My kids need me to be healthy and I want to be present for them, not absorbed in these issues, depressed and unavailable. I feel pretty shaky right now, but am trying to rebuild my life and get more to the root of my own issues so that I choose and build much healthier relationships.

[happiness68]

You're not alone - me too - the way that bk224 describes the below - i thought I'd written it myself for a moment.  I experienced this exactly ... .    I feel crazy as I write this.  It's been nearly 3 months and I feel absolutely mad.  I cry all the time for nothing, I think about it day/night.  However bk224 is right.  We need to find a way to break the cycle.  Only we can do this for ourselves.

My situation seems to resemble your in that I also ended up feeling crazy, like I was a stalker, etc. My ex never really took responsibility for her part in any miscommunication between us. Everything was always my fault. She broke up via text, came back, broke up again via text, then ignored me for months. I tried to reestablish contact and it all got crazy again.

[Rose Tiger]

My staff included a ring my Mum bought me (sentimental), clothing, an appliance and my watch. The ring was the most important. But apparently she doesn't have them. Maybe I lost my ring! Maybe she lost it! Who knows.

Ok, so you are not sure if she has the ring.  The other things, I don't think you will see them.  Time to count your losses and move on.

Well, I had her fleece jacket, books and some of her phD files.

Do you still have these?  I suggest boxing them up and mailing it to her.  NO NOTES or anything.

You were well on the way to letting go regarding the stuff and then you saw her driving/looking happy.  Then you re-engaged.  No worries, I think we all did things like this.  You rec'd no response and you amped it up.  Sort of like extinction bursts.  It hurts to be ignored, very painful.  While I was with the ex, the hurtful things he did, they felt familiar.  My past was a  neglectful childhood, so a neglectful spouse seemed acceptable.  Do any of your feelings of hurt resonate with your childhood?

[Diana82]

happiness68>

yes this is what makes me very sad. And so frustrated at the same time.

I need to realise is that nothing I could have done would have made this woman feel secure with me.

I was unemployed for 5 months in my hometown... .  I had to move out of my apartment because I couldn't afford rent.  I was really struggling. And yet... my ex didn't want to move even an hour's plane ride away to a place where there were more jobs for me.  She cried hysterically over it and it made her "anxious" because of her separation anxiety issues with her family.  She also wanted to stay to do her phD.

I could have left her at any given moment because things got so bad for me work wise. But I loved my ex and wanted to be with her regardless. I knew there had to be a way out of the mess... and was devoted to her. I even gave her a ring. I treated her well.

But none of this seemed to prove my devotion to her.  She still wound up feeling insecure and even said I make her feel like a "liability".

She had issues long before she met me.

I think she also has some insight into this as she told me "I'm a lonely person. I was lonely before I met you".

The way I interpret this is that she is trying to tell me that she has issues and these are deeply ingrained.

[Diana82]

rose tiger>

I was very saddened to have lost this ring. My Mum bought it for me from Africa (her home country) and it was beautiful.

It is possible that I lost it...     but I used to leave my jewellery at her place all the time. I was known for it. She had a few clothes of mine, my watch and hairdryer too.

I don't actually believe she is a thief and would deliberately withold these items, however. She did return 3 books (although they were dumped on my sidewalk).

I actually think she's lost them or just doesn't have them.  But why couldn't she tell me this?

My issue is the silence. 

It was an agonising 2 months of complete silence... I had stopped trying to even reconcile and she still wouldn't even drop me a line about my things.

I've never experienced this behaviour from an adult! it's so childish. And feels like she was punishing me with abusive silence. It takes a lot of conscious effort to deliberately ignore someone for that long.

[Diana82]

Hi again rose tiger>

No, actually I didn't have an unhappy or troubled childhood. The only issue I had was being gay and realising I could be a bit different early on.

I don't carry any resent to my parents... I don't have shame...

I'll be honest... I actually think a big reason I stayed with both women is because I fear I won't find someone I will have that "connection" with again.

In the gay community in my town, the selection of women is very average. And I do have a certain type. I like feminine and intelligent women.

I kept thinking... .  ok, this woman (my first ex)  has lied about her sexual history and is insecure... .  but she is beautiful, intelligent, loves me and we get on like a house on fire. What IF I don't find a woman like this again?      

My time is running out... .  maybe we can work it out and I can move past her issues. And because I have such a fixer mentality... this has also made me feel good to "help them" through their issues.

Same with my recent ex... .  it was obvious we were not even wanting the same things. She didn't really romance me... she changed her stories on me... I suspected she could be deceptive and a bit unstable.

But she was amazing in other ways and I loved her. I guess I have been conflicted with both women.

The other thing is... .  I've had a battle with head and heart

My head told me with my recent ex -  this woman is not sacrificing for YOU. She has baggage... yet she projects on to you that you have baggage. She seems unstable and weirdly attached to her family. She could be lying about her abusive history

But my heart told me-  I love her... .  I can't leave her.

[elemental]

You are giving her control by chasing her.

You have seen what she does with it.

Take it away from her by disengaging. You will feel better. Give it a week and see how much better you do feel.

In terms of her, if you truely feel you have unfinished business, then now is not the time to finish it. She won't let you because she has all the power.

Step away, set it aside for now. Recover and heal. Your chance will come. Do you want her to still have the power and jerk you around and make you feel crazy?

Probably not. Diana, let go for now.

[redfeather]

In your own words Diana82 this is the crux of your problem:

The other thing is... .  I've had a battle with head and heart

"My head told me with my recent ex -  this woman is not sacrificing for YOU. She has baggage... yet she projects on to you that you have baggage. She seems unstable and weirdly attached to her family. She could be lying about her abusive history

But my heart told me-  I love her... .  I can't leave her."

Stop asking us the same questions over and over looking for a different result... it cannot happen this way IF she suffers from BPD which is a serious mental illness... .  They have issues with engulfment and abandonment ok? You triggered her in some way EXACTLY like I did mine and others on here triggered theirs... Since you triggered her core issues then pointed out problems with her that is not what she heard... Possibly what she heard since many pwBPD suffer from trmendous amounts of shame what got through is that you felt like she was in some way defective or less than... This is in and of itself a no/no when dealing with the hypersensitive pwBPD... They cant handle these strong feelings so the do something called "splitting" and you are painted as black as night. At this point IT NEVER works to go running after them... never.

When you go searching for answers from a pwBPD when you are split black it further reinforces they were right to go 100% silent on you because you are indeed absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt if not being stalkerish most assuredly seemingly desperate. Which again I ask why is that Diana82? Turn the questions you ask of her behaviors towards yourself in therapy and here... .  ie Why would I allow this woman or any woman who in your own words never valued you enough to sacrifice for you? Answer that. That type of question directed at you will uncover the answers you seek about her and any others who may have had these same traits in your past... .  

I wish you the best.

Redfeather

[Suzn]

Suzn> what kinds of things did your ex say about you?

Has anyone else here been called a "harasser"?

My ex told people I physically abused her and her children. That never happened, but people sure did believe it. She also told people I stalked her, saying I was driving by her home or calling and texting her. That never happened either. In fact, I had changed my number and didn't want her to have my number. I had kept clear of her and her friends.

I need to realise is that nothing I could have done would have made this woman feel secure with me.

She had issues long before she met me.

These are true statements and you are absolutely right.

I loved my ex. And I was never deceptive with my her. I did not treat her badly, nor did I punish her with silence and discard her like trash. I don’t have that in me and I don’t think I could actually live with myself if I treated someone like that.

There was no reciprocity right? In healthy relationships there is reciprocity. This was not a healthy relationship was it?

I have also stated here a few times that I am a ‘rescuer’. This is taking responsibility for me and I’m aware that this is a strong tendency of mine and most likely made me stay with my ex (victim). I also had a need to be idealised in the beginning because I had been hurt before. So it worked…then.

So, it worked "then", how do you plan to make sure this doesn't happen again? Because, and let's slow down a bit, there's a pattern here Diana. (we all have behavior patterns, yours sounds a lot like mine) The woman you were with before this one didn't treat you well either. You were idolized, it felt good since you had been hurt prior so you stayed. Have there been other relationships where this dynamic was present?   Think back.

[bb12]

Hi Diana

As over-functioning people, we nons (perhaps Codependent) DO fill a void for them. They are victims / waifs / passives at the start and call out for guidance or leadership. We confuse need for love and offer up our whole world for the taking.

But one of the down sides of being over-functioning is our integrity and the pride we take in our reputation and generosity. When our name is soiled, it affects us enormously.

On this board, there is an article about the 10 things that keep us stuck. For me, the big one was the need to create decency. I think you are stuck in this too.

The more I read your posts, the more gob-smacked I am at how similar our stories are. Identical.

I can still have days when my default thought is my ex and this over-whelming urge to make contact and get an explanation for how someone could discard me with the silent treatment and never, ever attempt to recycle or communicate in 14 months! But mine also never said he was in love with me. I had to cajole anything nearing a compliment out of him.

The key to happiness is letting go of the need for these answers. It lies in acceptance... .  of what she is; what you are; what the current truth is (it's over... .  and they will not give you decency)

By the time these r/s reach their confusing, grisly end we have become a trigger for some disgusting behaviour. We will forever remain that trigger. Any approach from you will only result in appalling and nasty stuff back from her. You need to know this at a deep level and try to stop pining for ongoing contact.

I realised that the pull I feel (on the emotional and not cerebral level) was not actually for my ex, but for my own damaged inner child. He became a symbol, a deity, for my broken self and I lavished him with the guidance and treatment I would have loved as a kid. My chaotic and invalidating childhood meant I validated, over-gave, over-cared in all of my love r/ships. And borderlines are a bottomless pit... .  a perfect vehicle for our boundaryless kind of love.

Forget her and the dream of that perfect chat. Read all you can on codependency, and the damaged part of you that wanted (and despite appalling treatment, may still want) a person like that to make a life with!

BB12

[happiness68]

I agree with a lot of what you say here bb12, in particular the section below.  We feel so hurt when they speak bad of us, the thought that they can't see how loved they are and why on earth would they paint us black.  Perhaps the key to happiness is in fact letting go and accepting that we can't understand them and never will.  I think this could be my problem.  Where I like to try to understand everything, what I don't realise is that I'm just hurting myself in the process.  The same for many of you other nons I suppose.

We confuse need for love and offer up our whole world for the taking.

But one of the down sides of being over-functioning is our integrity and the pride we take in our reputation and generosity. When our name is soiled, it affects us enormously.

The key to happiness is letting go of the need for these answers. It lies in acceptance... .  of what she is; what you are; what the current truth is (it's over... .  and they will not give you decency)

BB12

[Diana82]

Elemental>

RE: you are giving her control by chasing her.

You have seen what she does with it.  Take it away from her by disengaging. You will feel better. Give it a week and see how much better you do feel.


... .  I haven't contacted my ex for 3 months. I went completely NC on her (after her friend abused me on the phone and told me to leave her alone and that I would never get closure from her).

Quite frankly, I am scared she will get a RO against me if I ever try to even contact her- even if it's about my things. I will never get that stuff back... she will never contact me... because I've been wiped off and painted black- this I understand.

But I do keep wondering, how can she not think about me? It's beem 5 months and she hasn't even tried to make peace.  Even my sister's ex (who dumped her) wished her happy birthday and merry Xmas. They aren't friends but they are civil.

What if I run into her? (she lives very close). Surprisingly I haven't run into her once and she even shopped in the same supermarket I did. But I am always on the look out that she may be there... and will she ignore me then? Will she even say hello given she changed her number?  doubtful.

[Diana82]

red feather>

RE: At this point IT NEVER works to go running after them... never.


Why is this? Why is asking for more explanation or even reaching out to apologise to them so threatening?  Do you know what goes on in their heads when they 'paint you black' and go silent?  Are they overwhelmed with anger towards you?

My friend's boyfriend betrayed her trust by meeting up with an ex without telling her.  So my friend dumped him straight away and told him to 'get out'.

And he rang her a week after she dumped him and wanted to apologise and talk. She answered the phone- even though she was pissed at him. She allowed him to apologise and she chatted to him more about why she couldn't be with him now.  It didn't change her decision- but she talked to him more about it because they had been together for so long.

I don't necessarily think an ex 'owes' us anything. But I don't think I was out of line when I asked my ex for more of an explanation as to why she hastily dumped me and refused to work on our relationship.

My ex's behaviour lead me to google... .  and google lead me to BPD...

[Diana82]

Suzn> did you ever feel a strong desire to expose your exBPD? To make sure people know about her crazy abuse stories?

I feel like nobody else knows how dark this woman is. They're all out of the loop... they all think she is a poor victim who is unlucky in love.

Her family... her friends... her networks... .  (and she has hundreds).

They have no idea how nasty and deceptive she is. And I am the poor sod who found out because I got intimate with her. How lucky 

[BentNotBroken]

I have posted on this before, but I will agree that the hateful smears are very painful when I have behaved in a manner that is quite the opposite for the entirety of the relationship. I will not abandon behaving decently and unselfishly toward others simply because I was badly burned by a person with BPD. If I become the selfish, uncaring jerk that she is making me out to be, then she wins yet again and our son and I lose in a big way.

There is another perspective on what often gets improperly labeled as codependency. In the circles of my peers, it is called altruism--doing good, kind, decent things for other people just for the sake of doing them and not expecting anything in return.

The thing that is hardest to remember is that many times other people are incapable of even basic human decency, and will take an act of kindness as a sign of weakness and attack or try to take advantage of the person who does the good deed.

I think BPD is more than just an emotional disregulation disorder, it is a type of soul-sickness that consumes and destroys other people just for the satifaction of the sufferer.

[Diana82]

Hi again suzn

You ask a good question... .  

Indeed... why did I stay with someone who wasn't sacrificing for me? Why did I stay with someone who seemed unstable and deceptive?

The reason is I felt she had two personalities at the end...

I got to know someone very different in the second half the relationship. And only a couple of months before the break up, I realised the extent of her issues... her troubles with depression... her loneliness/emptiness... .  her separation anxiety issues... .  her inconsistencies... .  that she wasn't really giving me much in return for my commitment.

it's as if she changed when things got deeper for us. I had invested so much by the time she started to reveal her dark side to me

[happiness68]

Diana82 - I ask myself the questions below from your post.  Why is that?  I can't understand it.  Is it some form of cowardice?

red feather>

RE: At this point IT NEVER works to go running after them... never.


Why is this? Why is asking for more explanation or even reaching out to apologise to them so threatening?  Do you know what goes on in their heads when they 'paint you black' and go silent?  Are they overwhelmed with anger towards you?

[Diana82]

bentnotbroken>  interesting...

I am learning more about codependency.  Funnily enough, my ex had a huge poster in her bedroom saying "codependency"  when we met.

I often wondered what that was... but she soon took it down. But I still wonder why she had that up there   

[Diana82]

hi happiness

It must be.  I know my ex is weak.

She dealt with issues by cutting people out of her life and going silent on them. That's not a sign of strength... it's weakness to me. And quite frankly emotionally abusive.

She must think that wiping people off, means you're dealing with the issue. But I know that my ex still had baggage and thought about those people she wiped off.

She didn't forgive anyone and was bitter about things that happened years ago.

She got her flat mate friend to call me up and tell me she "doesn't have my stuff"  instead of actually having the balls to respond to my many requests herself.

[happiness68]

I ignored the  .  The reason being I thought maybe it was me who was wrong/mad/whatever it was.  I didn't even mention them to anyone.  I think it's to do with some kind of low self-esteem where we think we are at fault and that's why we ignore the  .  Plus of course, we really do want things to work out  :'(

[Diana82]

that's true... .  

I think the red flags became very apparent towards the end. And I was conflicted.

I think my ex sensed I was  conflicted and when I told her she was too inconsistent, deceptive etc... .  I think she freaked out again and thought I would reject her and leave. Just like she did when we argued the previous time.

She viewed any argument as potentially leading to her being abandoned. 

Hence why she hastily dumped me... .  I think...

I view arguments as part of a relationship... I don't feel threatened in the same way she did.

[happiness68]

Yes, we grow in a couple with arguments.  We learn. 

From what you've said I agree she left because she thought you were going to leave her.  I think my ex did that too. 

When we split for a few weeks in July I know in hindsight it was because we'd just been on holiday and before the holiday I told him that I was going to be having a serious think about us while we were away.  We went to a surprise weekend holiday for my Dad's birthday (surprise to my Dad) and my ex proceeded to get drunk and behave like a complete idiot.  Everyone there was Dad's age, part from me, him, my brother and his gf.  I remember when we left the party he was saying to everyone I'll say goodbye because I don't think I'll be seeing you again and everyone telling him not to be silly.  3 days after we got back he left me.  That was the first biggie.  The next one was this last one.  Again we'd just had a holiday - a lovely holiday I might add where we were trying to get ourselves back together and I'd put all the changes in place I'd promised to make (this was our 2nd holiday of us getting back together as I'd taken him on one for his birthday too in August - same place funnily enough).  This time we had one argument, just one, not big, but I was so angry because he kept picking on me.  The last straw because he got angry that I wouldn't put aftersun on his back before we went out to dinner, but having taken over an hour to get ready and being fully ready myself, I didn't see why I couldn't do it when we got back.  Anyway, that's the not the point here.  When we got home after this great holiday, we had a week of normal and the following Saturday a great day out (where he bought himself a phone costing £500 that he couldn't afford because of other debt! - I didn't mention anything though as it's his life/his money) and then boom out of the blue he started an argument over something so very small (to do with the internet) and with that it was all over after a 3 hour lecture.  Once again, in hindsight, I feel that he thought I was going to leave him, as when we argued on holiday, I told him I didn't want to ruin the holiday and just for us to enjoy it and deal with this when we got back.  He probably thought I was thinking of ending it.

The saddest part of all of this is that I never EVER had any intention of ending it.  I wanted to spend the rest of my life with this man.

[Diana82]

that is sad 

You have to ask yourself I guess... do you want to spend your life CONVINCING someone you love them and won't leave them?  Trying to always reassure them that you are trustworthy. How exhausting. I think it wore me down.

It grained on me... and I thought, if I do leave this will prove her point? :s

It's ironic because when I was pleading with me ex to talk things over when she dumped me... .  she said "Why do YOU want to be with me now? How will you ever trust me again?"



QUE?

[Diana82]

it felt like she was trying to push me far away... .  

by saying "how can u trust me again?" and asking why I would want to be with her now. 

almost like she had an awareness that dumping me hastily over an argument was not a nice thing to do to me.

[happiness68]

Yes, they know. I think one of the reasons my ex won't return is because he thinks how could he (I think the same myself in a certain way) after all he's done, in particular how he treated me during the 3 weeks I was trying to sort things out, but he just let things get too far.  How can anyone take all that hurt back?  I know we would forgive, because we offer unconditional love and know how to forgive.  This is one of our blessings.  Forgive them and forgive ourselves.  That's what we have to do to move forward.  I've forgiven him, I forgave him so quickly.  I am now forgiving me.  It's hard, but I'll get there... .  

[elemental]

she probably does think of you.

[Sparkley]

You've received some great feedback on this post 

One question I noticed that you continue to ask is what happens if you run into her?

I have to advise that therapy will probably help you tremendously in this area.  There are techniques that a therapist can work with you on regarding traumatic responses, anxiety, fear, or even if you have a strong desire to try to reconnect or talk to your ex in that moment. 

My ex has stalked me well over 20 years.  In the first years, we were very young, high school, and the lies she told classmates were awful and I was threatened on a few occasions by male boyfriends of hers.  They would tell me I was stalking her, following her, looking at her.  All of these things were very untrue(actually, she was the one doing this) but at the time I had very little support and I was so young, afraid, naive... .  I almost started to doubt if I was or was not stalking her only because I was ruminating about our past, missed her very much, and grieving and I felt so guilty for ruminating about our "good times" that my self-esteem went to pot and I became very depressed.  I had very little insight into my own self, her, what a healthy or unhealthy relationship was.  I had dissociated with many of my childhood friends, friends who questioned my behaviors, I was so ashamed and hurt--hurt that they'd even imply or question my behaviors when they had known me since childhood and given that I didn't even do these things.  It was like a nightmare... .  I didn't understand how people could not see what this girl was doing.  I got through HS by making new friends, keeping to myself, and keeping busy. 

Fast forward to recent years.  Lots of anxiety even up to about a year ago about her being around me.  Same fears that she'd make stuff up and call the police, or talk to adults I socialize with and spread lies... .  

It finally just took me understanding that I was giving her control over me.  And what I wanted the most was ME back.  I didn't want to live in fear, with anxiety, or ruminating about the next run-in.  It took me realizing that I can only control me.  If she smears me to someone, I have no control of it.  All I can be is me.  If she were to call the police or someone were to threaten me like in the past, I'd say I'm perfectly okay.  I don't stalk her, I don't follow her, and if someone threatened me, I'd report it, too.  No more being a victim and giving up my precious thoughts and fears on what-if's.  She still does crazy things and I still get a "freeze" or fright and flight response(sometimes I don't have any physical reaction) but I have ways of coping now that help me debrief and move forward.

Years ago, Tony C gave me great advice in regards to your same question.  Picture a horse race.  Horses wear those blinders so they can only see the finish line, can't see what the other horse beside him is doing.  Put on those blinders when you go out.  If you see her, you have those blinders on and accomplish the task you were set on doing.  If you're at the library picking up a book and she is in there, you have on your blinders.  No need to say hi, no need to look... .  you're picking up your book and leaving.  If you're in a bar with some friends and she is there, probably a good time to leave but keep those blinders on while you do.  Practice wearing your blinders with strangers. 

[Diana82]

Thank you sparkly...

Did you ever have an overwhelming desire to expose your ex?

I do understand the control thing but then I soo want her found out! I want others to know she lies about rape/abuse/stalking!

I want her world ripped apart by this because of the awful crap she says ab innocent ppl!

[Suzn]

I do understand the control thing but then I soo want her found out! I want others to know she lies about rape/abuse/stalking!

I want her world ripped apart by this because of the awful crap she says ab innocent ppl!

Diana her world IS ripped apart. It may seem all together on the outside but one at a time people are seeing it. You are one of those people, her ex before you is another one of those people. There ARE other people she struggles with. You are just not privy to that information, you are focused on what she did to you, but if you remember, she told you about these people. Think about it.

[FoolishOne]

I can relate Diana82... .  my BPDw is holding herself out to be the model Christian.  Quoting scripture left and right.  I know exactly who and what she is and would love to spill the beans... .  but I ask myself to what end?  I fear it would be more selfish reasons than any other.  I agree with Suzn that my BPDw's life is chaos already.  Her world is a disaster and will always be so.  She may give the appearance that all is well now that I will be out of her life, but I know that her baggage follows here wherever she may go... .  and she will continue to leave a trail of human wreakage behind her... .  

F1

[Sparkley]

No, not really.  When I was young, I would say I had a very codependent/protective view of how I should react.  And a religious belief to treat people how I wanted to be treated.  TBH, hurting her would probably have hurt me spiritually and even at 14/15, I knew I couldn't take any more pain.

With that said, I've often wondered who has figured her out.  There were times after the second relationship that I very briefly wished that she had to stand in front of the world and look at the the horrible things she had done to me--I wanted her to be held accountable.  

But again, it comes back to the only person that I can control is me.  Even if your ex was tried and convicted, so to speak, with friends and peers, it's not going to change her, she isn't going to have a   go off... she's disordered, insane.  It doesn't go away.

Your post is titled that you feel like a stalker and this makes you feel sick and anxious.  Yet you have had NC for 3 months.  My question is... .  do you feel like it was more HER choice for NC and therefore your power in the NC has been taken from you?  What does ruminating mean to you?  

I really think a therapist could help you with reframing your thoughts and focusing on you.  :)o you think you deserve to find peace and happiness within yourself?

Best regards

[Newton]

Diana... .  I can empathize with wanting to "expose" her... .  I have enough info of lies and deceit to put an ex of mine in jail... .  

My feelings that would motivate that behaviour are anger, jealousy, punishment, resentment... .  not healthy at all.

Following through with that retribution would put me in the "persecutor" role on the drama triangle... .  I decided to back away from it all together... .  

Exploring WHY you want to expose her is the key to you finding peace... .  

[FoolishOne]

Amen Newton, Amen.

[Surnia]

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