Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
July 27, 2021, 10:32:55 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
100
Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Pages: [1] 2 ... 4  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: BPD's misery and refusal to do anything about it despite their intelligence...  (Read 13030 times)
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« on: January 20, 2013, 06:56:59 AM »

Turtle, PrettyPlease and me are all thinking the same thing and wanted to start a new thread on it.  We all think that one of the hardest things to understand (no matter how long we've been free of our BPD) is how a person can be so very miserable, but refuse to do anything about it.  We also agree on the fact that our exBPD's are very intelligent, yet they seem to miss the common denominator in all of their misery, which is themselves.  I feel just this about my exbfBPD, he really was a very intelligent man (still is).  :)espite his intelligence, he roams the world feeling so very alone, he's so unhappy but refuses to do anything to make himself happy and yet doesn't think to himself that the problem 'could' be him. I say 'could' because I think if I were him, I'd question myself.  In fact, I have questioned myself after all I've been through over the last few months.  Why is this?  Why do they wallow in the misery?  Is it the victim thing?

Logged
Validation78
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 1399



« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 07:06:07 AM »

Hey Happiness!

I'm not Turtle, however, maybe I can help.

Read a bit about Radical Acceptance. It is a simple concept to explain a very complicated situation. Basically, you must accept that BPD is a mental illness. There is no logic. There is nothing that we can do to truly understand it. We must simply accept it. Conventional wisdom teaches us that the brain is wired differently in a pwBPD. It just doesn't process the way a healthy brain does. No matter how logical it is, the pwBPD will not see that they are ill. That they are the one who needs help. The way they process seems logical to them, we are the illogical ones! It took hearing this from our CT to really accept this. She was very clear when she said, H is very ill. He won't get better. Even if he worked hard at the DBT we were doing, it would be years before anything would change. I have found it so much easier just to accept it for what it is. No amount of questioning is going to give us answers. It just is, and we didn't cause it, nor can we cure it!

Best Wishes,

Val78
Logged
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 07:12:36 AM »

Thanks Val78 - the thread wasn't address to Turtle, just stating that Turtle, PrettyPlease and me had been saying that we should start a thread on this subject.  I agree that BPD's are ill and we won't understand it, because we don't think the way they do, although I must say I believe my exbfBPD is a highly intelligent man and I find it hard to believe that he can be so very intelligent, but not think for one moment that the problem could be him.  He could be creating his own misery.  I kind of feel he knows.  I remember in July we had a few weeks of back and forth and he said to me "but I'm broken" - that tells me he knows he has a problem and he is responsible.  Perhaps it depends how badly they're affected with the BPD.  I don't know, but I do think that maybe just maybe some of the BPD's know that they are the reason they're living in their own misery.  I just don't understand why they don't do anything about it.  I guess i must relate back to the fear thing and admitting openly that something is wrong.  I do analyse everything til the bitter end I must admit.  I kind of feel at peace with myself knowing that 'm 90% sure that my exbf is suffering from BPD, so I'm part-way there.  I just hope that he will see what he saw when he told me he was broken and do something about it.  Despite the fact that he suffers from BPD, there is a big part of him that really is a lovely man.  That's the part I find hard to forget.
Logged
Validation78
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 1399



« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 07:34:05 AM »

Hey again!

I think of mental illness as presenting on a line. One end is low functioning the other is high functioning, and there's lots of space in between. My H is very high functioning. He has achieved a high degree of success in his career, and nobody outside of those he has allowed to get close would ever guess that he's a mess inside. He knows how to cover it up, and simply because of the nature of BPD, it really is only those who he gets into intimate relationships with who bring out the worst of the BPD behaviors. I see them in small ways with less intimate relationships too, however, those folks don't notice because they think that's just the way he is. I know that he keeps most people at a distance to protect himself!

I also believe that on some level, he is aware that something is wrong with him. It's just too painful to look at himself the way a healthy person would, who sees that the only path to healthiness is to look in the mirror. It's hard to do, even for the most heathy person, so I can only imagine what it must be like for a pwBPD. H and I have been going to T for years, he knows he needs it, yet, he doesn't to the work! He still believes that just showing up will do it! It's also easier to blame everyone else. This way, he can feel free of the guilt and shame. When I told him that I was afraid of him, he said he wanted to divorce because he didn't want to be married to someone who was afraid of him! Huh? Wouldn't a normal person say, OMG, what can I do to make you less afraid? Of course, and as we know, they are not normal! We cannot expect normal responses. I too hope that my H gets the help he needs, I just can't wait around anymore for it, and cannot subject myself to the madness in the meantime. It's all so sad, and I have the utmost sympathy for him. However, it's time to put myself first. He has to take charge of his wellbeing without me from now on.

Let me leave you with this. My T put this thought in my head the other day, and it helps me to deal with the good memories, and not miss him. When you think of a good memory, counter balance it with a bad one. It will help you with your healing and to stop you from thinking that it ever could have been what you hoped for!

Best Wishes,

Val78
Logged
HarmKrakow
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1226


« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 07:53:24 AM »

Turtle, PrettyPlease and me are all thinking the same thing and wanted to start a new thread on it.  We all think that one of the hardest things to understand (no matter how long we've been free of our BPD) is how a person can be so very miserable, but refuse to do anything about it... .  

Well this can also be seen from a different perspective. As in, one gets dumped by a pwBPD and refuses to 'detach' and 'move on' but remains in this phase of push/pull relationship and try to get everything back together. In the meantime this person is deteriorating everything around her, her work, her social life and when friends tell them, why do you refuse to accept our help? ... the answer often would be (as shown here often on this board) ... but I still have some sense of false hope that everything will be like it was in the old days. And therefore remains miserable and complains that life hurts and blows because the r/s with a borderliner can't be understood.

The moment, if that comes, when everything is over, this person can be so shocked that it will take ages before this person has enough courage and mental motivation to step out of this misery, but mostly will take a long time before she sees the light again and therefore also remains such a long time in feeling miserable.
Logged
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 07:53:48 AM »

Val78 - funny you say this - that's just what I do.  I was telling a friend of mine just last night that I remember the bad stuff too.  I can think of something from each month from the second month we were together that was bad where he'd fly off the handle, walk out, hurt me, or something alone those lines.  Good job I've got such a good memory.  I think to myself how that was the start of our relationship too, the so called honeymoon period.

Let me leave you with this. My T put this thought in my head the other day, and it helps me to deal with the good memories, and not miss him. When you think of a good memory, counter balance it with a bad one. It will help you with your healing and to stop you from thinking that it ever could have been what you hoped for!

Best Wishes,

Val78

Logged
turtle
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: I am happily single -- live alone and love it.
Posts: 5313


WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 09:02:14 AM »

Validation78 is right on.  It's radical acceptance. I finally came to that point a long time ago, which was why I said this in that other thread.

Here's what I said:

Excerpt
Quote from: turtle on Yesterday at 08:18:52 PM

We ALL have the "need to understand."  It's not an abnormal "need." The problem is... .  we never will.  We're just not wired the way they are -- and we need to remain grateful for that.

After all the years of asking "why?"  I still only come up with one answer:  Because he's mentally ill.

I was like a hamster on the wheel for years trying to understand, trying to cope, trying to learn, trying to explain, defend, coerce, blah, blah, blah, etc.  And in the end... .  three little words covered the whole thing. He's mentally ill.  Isn't that irritating?  That after all the effort, that's what I came up with?  Sad, but true.

PrettyPlease --- start that thread.  I promise to chime in!

turtle

We all arrive at Radical Acceptance in our own time.  I wished I'd grasped the Radical Acceptance part much earlier than I did.  However... .  I DID finally grasp it ... .  and this time when he tried to reengage after eleven years, the first three words that popped into my brain were "he's mentally ill,"  I was curious enough to see if something had changed for him, but those three little freeing words were right there to remind me.

Well this can also be seen from a different perspective. As in, one gets dumped by a pwBPD and refuses to 'detach' and 'move on' but remains in this phase of push/pull relationship and try to get everything back together. In the meantime this person is deteriorating everything around her, her work, her social life and when friends tell them, why do you refuse to accept our help? ... the answer often would be (as shown here often on this board) ... but I still have some sense of false hope that everything will be like it was in the old days. And therefore remains miserable and complains that life hurts and blows because the r/s with a borderliner can't be understood.

The moment, if that comes, when everything is over, this person can be so shocked that it will take ages before this person has enough courage and mental motivation to step out of this misery, but mostly will take a long time before she sees the light again and therefore also remains such a long time in feeling miserable.

This is great!  And it is so true. 

We can become so wrapped up in what THEY do, what THEY say, how THEY behave, WHY they are this way, that way, or the other way, etc. that we give up our core self trying to deal with it all.  We can become the exhausted hamster on the wheel because we CHOOSE not to get off the wheel.

We can lament why they won't get help forever, but guess what?  After all of our lamenting... .  they will STILL be mentally ill, and WE will STILL be broken.

Part of why I hung in there so very long ago was that I didn't want to give up on him. Everyone else had apparently given up on him and he made sure I knew it. In the end, I said "I didn't give up on you, YOU gave up on you." 

I don't know, but I do think that maybe just maybe some of the BPD's know that they are the reason they're living in their own misery.  I just don't understand why they don't do anything about it.  .



I think this is true, but when they have those moments of clarity, they are quicky dismissed.

Excerpt
I just hope that he will see what he saw when he told me he was broken and do something about it.  Despite the fact that he suffers from BPD, there is a big part of him that really is a lovely man.  That's the part I find hard to forget

It would be great if he got help, Happiness68.  IF he does, just remember that will have NOTHING to do with you!  Another fact of Radical Acceptance.

turtle

Logged

almost789
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 783


« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 09:04:04 AM »

Higher functioning ones are intelligent, on a intelectual level. However, it's the emotional level where they become like a infant/childlike. The reason they will not get help or even accept that they may have a mental disorder is strickly, fear. Mine and many others Ive seen know there is something wrong with them, but would rather live in the world of denial because its more comfortable for them. Facing their disorder causes them severe emotional pain and so the primative defenses kick in such as denial, projection and false self protection. While it's not logical from a normal sane perspective. There is reason behind their disorder. People who study BPD, psychologists and others understand the reasoning behind their actions. While they understand they are actions of a mentally ill person and which doesn't follow common logic. When one can not understand or does not have the desire to understand the reasoning behind the disorder, it is easiest to say, "its a mental disorder" and be okay with leaving it there. Others may chose to understand more about the disorder, while it doesn't make sense in normality, there are reasons for why they do what they do. But the main reason for not wanting help is denial and fear.
Logged
Newton
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1548


« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 09:45:31 AM »

Spot on SummerT321... .  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)... .  emotional intelligence is a very different thing from being intellectually savvy... .  

It's why they can appear so capable and functioning at work... .  and why their SO's experience a totally different side of their personalities at home... .  

Acceptance that even attempting a relationship with my ex was, in it's very nature exacerbating her symptoms was my  Idea moment... .  

My boundaries, morals and values were simply incompatible with what she could offer... .  and I (we) had become her biggest trigger... .  

Logged
turtle
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: I am happily single -- live alone and love it.
Posts: 5313


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 09:49:30 AM »

Spot on SummerT321... .  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)... .  emotional intelligence is a very different thing from being intellectually savvy... .  

I agree SummerT321!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
Acceptance that even attempting a relationship with my ex was, in it's very nature exacerbating her symptoms was my  Idea moment... .  

My boundaries, morals and values were simply incompatible with what she could offer... .  and I (we) had become her biggest trigger... .  



Exactly, Newton!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)


Logged

Amber3
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 10:19:36 AM »

I recall my ex saying, "Why can't we all just live with our imperfect selves?"  I agree that emotional intelligence is very different than being intellectually savvy.  He would talk about Jung psychology (and what was going on unconsciously with ME when he was upset... not HIM), but it appeared he was so very "intelligent" (at first!)

Ya know, I've asked myself the same thing: if I can find out about these personality disorders, why can't he? He's in so much pain doing nothing about it... .  but fear and denial would be a good reason.

It would be great if he got help, Happiness68.  IF he does, just remember that will have NOTHING to do with you!  Another fact of Radical Acceptance.

turtle

turtle... .  can you expand what you mean here? I'm trying to understand that.

Logged
turtle
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: I am happily single -- live alone and love it.
Posts: 5313


WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 10:30:46 AM »

It would be great if he got help, Happiness68.  IF he does, just remember that will have NOTHING to do with you!  Another fact of Radical Acceptance.

turtle

turtle... .  can you expand what you mean here? I'm trying to understand that.

Happiness68 stated in another thread that whe wonders if she would have been able to get him into counseling.  (We can torture ourselves with the "what if's." Maybe she could have, maybe she couldn't have.  Sounds to me like she tried, and couldn't because HE didn't want that. Either way, the decision for treatment would be on HIM and HIM alone. 

The way I see it is IF the disordered person decides to get help, that "help" has nothing to do with the people around them.  They have to want that "help" MORE than they want ANYTHING else and more often than not... .  as Newton stated... .  WE have become a part of their insanity... .  "their biggest trigger."

I look at it like an addict who is in recovery.  They have to remove themselves from all of their old triggers... .  and they have to want to stay clean more than they want ANYTHING else.  That includes, people, places, everything.  Any person, place or thing that threatens their sobriety has to be confronted and most times, removed.

Did I make sense there?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

turtle

Logged

happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 10:44:52 AM »

Thanks for all the replies on this.

Yes Turtle, you make sense.  You mean HE has to want to do it for HIMSELF.  He won't do it for me or anyone else.  That's very true.  I believe that's true of most things in life.  I think I told you he told me I needed counselling, so I went.  The first time I went I went to a lady who lived nearby, who after about 4 sessions said to me that she felt I really didn't need counselling, as although we all have issues in life, mine really were so very small that I was wasting my time.  I had more counselling through another lady about 6 months back when we had a few weeks break up and she told me the same thing - she said she'd never spoken to someone as grounded as me and that I was wasting my money.  She told me I should try to get him to talk to her.  I knew that because he was so sensitive, I couldn't just come out with that.  Instead I did mention about the two of us going for couples therapy, as I felt then the T would hit on what was wrong (I didn't know at this point about BPD) and it would go on from there and hopefully help him.  He made excuses as to why we shouldn't go, moreso saying that it was me that needed counselling.  I didn't ever tell him I'd stopped (simply because it was easier for him to think I was still going, because he thought I needed help). I have to laugh looking back at the fact that I said I was still going, but it's not funny really ... .  

I do think he knows he needs help though.  As I say, he's told me he's broken and I think that was more than one occasion. I do hope he one day does something about it.  I don't want him to do it for me.  I want him to do it for him and I know that HE has to do it because HE wants to.

Logged
Amber3
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 10:47:43 AM »

Yes, turtle... .  I see what you're saying. It's about them and their desires deep down inside. I see how we are their triggers, yep. The comparison with an addict is a good one. Thank you!

But, does that mean once a trigger, always a trigger? It seems like if they dealt with their core issues that their thinking would eventually shift away from that?

Logged
Wimowe
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 71


« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 10:57:24 AM »



My uBPDxgf has desperately sought solutions for her emotional pain.  She's been in some form of psychotherapy for years (I'm guessing decades).  She's pursued various spiritual practices, gone to workshops, worked Twelve Step programs, read self-help books, and received alternative medical treatments. Sometimes she admitted that certain of her difficulties resulted from mistakes she made.  However, she didn't really take responsibility for herself and her life -- she was probably unable to do this.

The therapeutic relationships of which I'm aware were all marred by poor boundaries.  I've wondered if her therapists perceived her BPD traits.
Logged
turtle
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: I am happily single -- live alone and love it.
Posts: 5313


WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 11:01:20 AM »

But, does that mean once a trigger, always a trigger? It seems like if they dealt with their core issues that their thinking would eventually shift away from that?

Maybe... .  However... .  back to the addict analogy.

I had a friend who was a crack addict.  Notice the word "HAD."  He supposedly had been clean for about 13 years.  Even after 13 years of sobriety, he could never watch shows like "Intervention" and he certainly could never be in an evironment where people were smoking crack.  Makes sense.

Even if "their thinking eventually shifted away from that," WE are still guilty by association.  

And... .  that's true on our side of the equation too. THEY are guilty by association as well. IF my crazyx ever got help and was "better" (something I cannot fathom,) I still wouldn't consider having him back in my world.  I would be glad that he'd gotten the help he needs and I would wish him a happy life and be on my way.

But that's just me.

turtle

Logged

Wimowe
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 71


« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2013, 11:08:22 AM »

Acceptance that even attempting a relationship with my ex was, in it's very nature exacerbating her symptoms was my  Idea moment... .  

My boundaries, morals and values were simply incompatible with what she could offer... .  and I (we) had become her biggest trigger... .  

It was a bitter Idea moment when I perceived this, but it helped me accept that a relationship with her was likely impossible -- at least as things are now.  I had already started to ask how I might be toxic to her and knew that I had probably made her feel unsafe by not setting boundaries.  However, this site is helping me understand the dance we were in -- and my part in it -- much more deeply.
Logged
Amber3
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98


« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2013, 11:24:34 AM »

Yeah, I'm learning my part in the "dance" as well, and not setting good boundaries was a big part of it. I can't help but wonder how he'd respond to any kind of therapy.

IF my crazyx ever got help and was "better" (something I cannot fathom,) I still wouldn't consider having him back in my world.  I would be glad that he'd gotten the help he needs and I would wish him a happy life and be on my way.

But that's just me.

turtle

turtle, yeah, ya know... .  "They" appear to have it all together with their "intelligence" they throw at you... .  but I think once the trust is broken, it's hard to get it back.  You seem like you're at a healthy distance away from it all... .  I have a ways to go... .  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .  
Logged
Newton
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1548


« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2013, 11:37:54 AM »

Wimowe... .  I think you are taking too much responsibility for the dysfunction... .  Of course if we don't keep our side of the street clean... .  that will cause major problems... .  

What I am suggesting is that even by being the best 'version' of ourselves that we could be will actually ESCALATE their feelings of inadequacy and fear of abandonment... .  once you can grasp that concept... .  the futility of attempting a rs with a person with BPD who isn't actively engaging in treatment... .  the easier it will be to disengage... .  

Our hard work on the tools here... .  will by it's very nature promote more "closeness" and intimacy... .  that in turn will promote more fear of abandonment/engulfment and acting out/in behaviour... .  My knowledge and understanding of my ex's condition makes me her best friend AND her worst enemy... .  

Surely the definition of a catch 22 situation!... .  
Logged
jmc8899
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 58


« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2013, 11:41:13 AM »

My ex who has BPD (undiagnosed) is very high functioning and very intelligent.   He has done very well in his career, is attractive and is financially stable.   On the outside, he appears to be an excellent catch.   But anyone who has been close to him knows what a mess he is.  

He blames everyone else for everything and thinks everyone is out to take advantage of him.  Yes, lots of people do but that is because he goes above and beyond to do things for others for approval.   He needs validation from external sources to prove his worth.   He has never been able to take responsibility for his own behavior in the demise of a relationship.   The other person was always the evil one.   This is why he doesn't believe he needs help, and will always be miserable.
Logged
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2013, 12:46:39 PM »

Wimowe/Amber3 - that's it - the boundaries - that was my big problem.  I didn't set boundaries.  I was so busy worrying about HIM and trying to please HIM, I forgot about me and in that madness I didn't set boundaries. I used to you know at the start and I wonder if that's why we lasted as long as we did.  I think I just got tired of it.  The longer we were together, the more drained I was, the more I was giving and the less boundaries were in place.  I'm a great believer in the phrase - people treat us the way we allow them to.  I allowed him to behave the way he did.
Logged
mitti
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up no contact 100% detached
Posts: 1087



« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2013, 01:03:15 PM »

Yes, I agree with SummerT321 that the main reason for their not seeking help is denial and fear. They carry an enormous about of pain and shame inside that I think is difficult for a nonBPD to understand. I do think though that even though their "wiring" so to speak is different that if only they were to commit to treatment they would get significantly better. Studies show that by altering our cognitive patterns we create new "wiring" in the brain. But then again I realize I have no idea the amount of courage it may take to face that kind of internal turmoil.

My pwBPD knows he has serious issues. He doesn't always admit to it and there's a lot of blaming me and projection when things get to heavy for him to carry by himself. He and I were in CT together for almost a year. Our T was brilliant as she had extensive experience from treating BPD-patients. My bf was totally committed to going, in fact CT was his idea in the first place. He tried hard to do the work too and to understand. It was often extremely triggering for the both of us but I would leave most sessions feeling somehow better and though drained mentally also more hopeful, and I have also had to deal with some difficult personal issues. But he would always tell me he would feel at lot worse afterwards, sometimes so bad it would last days. He questioned whether it was even healthy for him to feel so bad. And in the end he couldn't deal with it any longer.
Logged
myself
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3151


« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2013, 01:09:04 PM »

What I am suggesting is that even by being the best 'version' of ourselves that we could be will actually ESCALATE their feelings of inadequacy and fear of abandonment... .  

Yes, saw this firsthand throughout the relationship. It became a form of unspoken competition between us, with me doing things to better our situation and she doing things to make it worse. A lot of this has to do with the Control involved. The shifts in balance have to do with control, the lack of it and the attempts at having it. It's too hard, too much work, too many fears and etc. to face, for a pwBPD to help change things for the better, even for themselves (ESPECIALLY for themselves, it seems). It's 'easier' to just stay the (worse) course. Gives a sense of control to the one running away, doing the harm. Even as they also hurt themselves. We can find our own self-control by putting in the time to help improve our lives. Many people beat themselves up over having stayed too long, but I think in many cases it shows how good our intentions were. We were just involved in a losing situation with someone who wasn't actually capable of trying to help it work out for the best. Why aren't they? Shame, pain, entrenched negative patterns, self-doubt, being scared... .  Stemming from childhood abuse which helped cause constant mental illness issues.

Logged
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2013, 01:09:45 PM »

Sorry to hear your story Mitti.  I agree with SummerT321 and the denial, fear and shame too.  The hardest part is that they can't talk about that even with us who are/were closest to them.  I'm very open and talk about everything and I'm not judging by any stretch of the imagination. I just "wish" it were easier for them.  I think they would make it easier for themselves. I totally understand though that we are all made up differently.
Logged
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2013, 01:12:13 PM »

myself - when you talk about childhood abuse, what does that mean?  Do you think that the BPD was in a situation where he/she was controlled, bullied?  My exbfBPD was one of six boys.  His parents weren't in a good financial situation from what I understand.  Is the abuse thing something you can shed light on?

What I am suggesting is that even by being the best 'version' of ourselves that we could be will actually ESCALATE their feelings of inadequacy and fear of abandonment... .  

Yes, saw this firsthand throughout the relationship. It became a form of unspoken competition between us, with me doing things to better our situation and she doing things to make it worse. A lot of this has to do with the Control involved. The shifts in balance have to do with control, the lack of it and the attempts at having it. It's too hard, too much work, too many fears and etc. to face, for a pwBPD to help change things for the better, even for themselves (ESPECIALLY for themselves, it seems). It's 'easier' to just stay the (worse) course. Gives a sense of control to the one running away, doing the harm. Even as they also hurt themselves. We can find our own self-control by putting in the time to help improve our lives. Many people beat themselves up over having stayed too long, but I think in many cases it shows how good our intentions were. We were just involved in a losing situation with someone who wasn't actually capable of trying to help it work out for the best. Why aren't they? Shame, pain, entrenched negative patterns, self-doubt, being scared... .  Stemming from childhood abuse which helped cause constant mental illness issues.

Logged
just me.
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 188


« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2013, 01:15:37 PM »

My ex-wife is among the most intelligent, courageous, and introspective people I've ever met.  She's also BPD (undiagnosed, of course), and frequently utterly miserable.

She can't see it in herself for even a second.  She obviously wants to be happy, but all of her emotional and intellectual resources can't do a darn thing for her.

Contradictory?  Perhaps... .  but I think it makes sense to me.

Intelligence is a matter of processing input and producing output.  It's looking at a jumbled page and seeing a pattern... .  or looking at a maze and seeing the way out... .  or looking at clues and putting them altogether.  It's connecting the dots.

I don't see anything about BPD that suggests that they can't be good at that.  I think the problem is just that their input stream is wrong.  The jumbled page does have patterns on it, but they are not a true reflection of reality.  They can process and process and reflect and process and be strong all day long... .  but the clues they've been given are just wrong.

If their eyes and ears and hearts keep betraying them, what is the brain supposed to do?
Logged
Newton
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1548


« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2013, 01:16:26 PM »

mitti I feel for you... .  my first T said to me ... .  "Newton... .  I think the hardest thing to accept as someone with caregiving tendencies... .  is that some people we care about are so broken, they simply cannot be fixed, or cannot fix themselves"... .  

He was an amazing clinical psych, psychotherapist and double PHD in mental health... .  he had seen it all... .  a man with 25 years experience in treatment of mental health issues , and more recently personality disorders... .  

I found his words were devastating... .  and liberating ... .  in equal value... .  

Sometimes we just need to arrive at our own understanding that things are not changing, and it's time to walk away... .  It's equally caring to us, and caring to them... .  

Logged
Newton
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1548


« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2013, 01:22:49 PM »

just_me_500... .  I appreciate your frustration... .  it seems you are missing an essential point... .  

Their FEELINGS are their TRUE interpretation of the world... .  there just isn't a logical filter to process information... .  that is missing... .  

That means it is a reality of sorts... .  a distorted one, but a reality all the same... .  for them... .  hence why their behaviour can appear so bizzare to us... .  

It is very off kilter from our interpretation of the world... .  agreed.

Their brain is doing the best it can, in the fractured way it has developed... .  

Logged
myself
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3151


« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2013, 01:25:05 PM »

myself - when you talk about childhood abuse, what does that mean?  :)o you think that the BPD was in a situation where he/she was controlled, bullied?  My exbfBPD was one of six boys.  His parents weren't in a good financial situation from what I understand.  Is the abuse thing something you can shed light on?

From reading stories here, living through it, and learning about this stuff elsewhere, many times the person with BPD seems to have experienced some form of abuse in childhood. That's where the 'survival' parts of this come into play. Where the deepest pains are, and why the acting out occurs. Why it's said that they are stuck emotionally at early-age levels. Why it's harder (if not impossible) for them to change themselves.
Logged
happiness68
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 204



« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 02:07:14 PM »

What type of things could have affected them - shouting, aggression etc?
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: [1] 2 ... 4  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!