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Author Topic: Anyone confronted them with BPD?  (Read 3415 times)
real lady
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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2013, 03:42:35 PM »

I had not yet begun detaching when I "pointed out" CERTAIN behaviors that I SAW in him that were DISRUPTIVE to our relationship and my willingness to work through them with him, with help of a counselor. I thought I was talking to "a normal" person... .  then I started to learn about how insidious BPD is.

I would NEVER suggest that anyone NON tell an undiagnosed person who is VERY LIKELY to be suffering from BPD that "they have BPD"... .  

I told mine with VALIDATION and empathy that I did not KNOW how he felt but I "have read" that he may feel only HALF of the joy I feel and NINE times the mental and emotional pain and suffering".

It allowed me to inform him that I was:

1- aware of his pain

2- that I CARED for what he was feeling

3- that I was willing to do anything that I could do to help him and us "feel" better about each other

4- I would "work on me" and do my best to NOT cause "known" triggers

5- STOPPED TALKING ABOUT HOW I FELT. Knowing that he would only dysregulate as if I was "trying to take the center stage with my pain and disregarding his pain and suffering and even "disrespecting" him by trying to share my life with him.

6- that I was reading and trying to understand how he felt; it is NOT like I feel... .  I FEEL GREAT JOY AND DEEP PAIN but NOT TO THE EXTREMES that he may feel them... .  especially the pain... .  so much deeper.

He did not like to see books on "BPD" sitting around even though I did not "leave them in plain sight". I nearly read EVERY one and bought Valerie Porr's book on "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder"... .  in my opinion the VERY BEST overall book (Thanks to Randi for her fine work "Walking on Eggshells"; a fundamental book for first learning about BPD and mental illness)... .  

He has DENIED that "he is messed up" (his words) and I told him that "I am messed up and going to counseling to help me think rightly and feel better"... .  he has the "STIGMA" of mental illness and will NOT go to counseling.

So to answer the question directly; I have NOT confronted him with BPD but I HAVE shared SYMPTOMS of BPD and how his behavior SEEMS to be like the symptoms and how I am understanding him better because I love him.



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Phoenix.Rising
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« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2013, 03:47:39 PM »

Nylonsquid,  I hear compassion coming from you towards your exwBPD.  I can relate.  I spent some time on the staying board after our last breakup (one of many), and I learned some great skills.  We agreed to a friendship, even though she started dating others.  She told me after the fifth or sixth breakup that she needed to start dating others to 'get over me'.  We learn that w/o treatment it's extremely difficult for pwBPD to be alone, because they need the mirroring due to lack of stable self.

I want to say that is commendable to desire a friendship with her although she is seeing someone else.  Again, I attempted this, but realized I was not detached enough, therefore my romantic love for her was still in tact.  When she spoke of going on a date, etc. it became too much for me to handle.  I dealt with it at first, but it became increasingly difficult and painful for me.  If you have truly detached romantically, then I wish you the best.  If you are not detached, a friendship will likely be very difficult.

Have you read Patient and Clear's story?  She has been managing a friendship with her ex and has been quite successful to a large degree, but it has also been a great struggle for her.  I personally think it is great for a pwBPD to have an anchor that is just a friend.  I also realized I am not strong enough for that role right now.  There's too much work I need to do on myself.  As far as whether or not to mention BPD to her, I'm not going to comment.  You've been give some great suggestions already.  Take care.
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« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2013, 03:49:11 PM »

real lady,

If you have that open dialog to discuss things the way you do, that sounds great. good lesson for those who might get recycled.
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« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2013, 03:57:56 PM »

Nylon - this has been a great thread, thank you for starting it.

Fundamentally, those who know my posting - I tend to think 99% of our twisted thinking will fall into one of the 10 False Beliefs that keep us stuck.

Perhaps this thread would go with:

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

You might want to stay to help your partner. You might want to disclose to them that they have borderline personality disorder and help them get into therapy. Maybe you want to help in other ways while still maintaining a “friendship”.

The fact is, we are no longer in a position to be the caretaker and support person for our “BPD” partner – no matter how well intentioned.

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

We also need to question your own motives and your expectations for wanting to help. Is this kindness or a type “well intentioned” manipulation on your part - an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which they suffer?

More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we are attempt to help anyone else.

You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival.

If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away. Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.
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« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2013, 04:00:52 PM »

Wondering if anyone has confronted their partner with the BPD symptoms and suggest they may have it. I'd like to know what the repercussions or reaction is.

The reaction mine had was to split me again. Paint me black. But, I knew this would likely happen. It was a deal breaker for me to stay if he was in denial and refused treatment. I would not 'recycle' per say se if he returned. I would likely be his friend and provide support for him if he acknowledged it and got into therapy.
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« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2013, 04:29:01 PM »

Hi not sure if i am in the right catergory but the way i see it is we want them to get help that is why we tell them our , our love for them is imense  i am a parent of BPD all we have tried to do for years is to help so our we suppose to hide our head in the sand and hope and pray for a miracle no we have to try and try as my husband says you cant fix anything if you dont think u have a issue whether that is mental or physical  .  he also says the definition of insane is "doing the same the over and over again and hoping for a different outcome" (pardon the insane remark ) if you saw your best friend bleeding from the chest what would u do nothing come on this mental illness is not simple to say the least we have tried talking to our daughter about it and all we get is denial everyones elses fault so common with BPDs my two cents is keep trying because if they do not believe they have a issue then they will not seek help MENTAL PROBLEMS are so serious so i say yes tell them if you love them but in a calm manner whatever works because from my outlook they have a terrible future just my opinion   please pardon my grammar
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« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2013, 05:22:12 PM »

Seeking Balance, False belief #9 proved accurate in my case.  I am a trigger for her, and she is a trigger for me.  Thanks for sharing.
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2013, 05:56:14 PM »

Seeking Balance, False belief #9 proved accurate in my case.  I am a trigger for her, and she is a trigger for me.  Thanks for sharing.

Phoenix: could you expand on this a bit for me? What does it mean that you are a trigger for her and she is a trigger for you? I am trying to understand so I can apply this to my own situation. Examples would be very helpful.

thanks
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« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2013, 06:30:48 PM »

If psychiatrists - trained professionals in this area - are saying it is not advisable for you or me to tell the pwBPD they have BPD and you do so anyway - how are you not being selfish?

If not selfish, is it arrogance?  Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go agaist the professionals?

This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.

The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

If you go against professionals and do it anyway it is your choice - just know your motivation is all.

Peace,

SB

We can debate lots on here. I hear you, SB. Another fact is psychiatrist have prescribed medication that doesn't even work and in some cases cost people lives. FACT. My psychiatrist will tell you this. What I've learnt is, never stop asking. I question myself and others as well. It's great to gain knowledge.

This thread DOES have tons of useful information from people and I love it. It helps me gain knowledge and understanding. That's why I started this thread. I also love hearing all sides of things. There's an old saying that says "Listen to a person of experience than a doctor". It's not an English saying Smiling (click to insert in post)  The point is there is lots to learn from people on here as much as, if not more so, than a professional. In my professional environment, I'd say most people can't see the bigger picture. Professionals can be stuck in old academic ideas. Very few things are absolute so I stay open. It's also what drives me to grow knowing that things are impermanent and in constant change.

All that said, I'm not inclined to tell her she has BPD... but I'm open to it Smiling (click to insert in post)

I couldn't agree with you more. In reference to why would you go against a professional? I don't make it a habit to go against professionals, but I have. For instance. Doctors and/or professionals have recommended medications for me and my family multiple times. I have refused them if I found they were not necessary and there were alternative solutions. Statin drugs being one if them to lower cholesterol. I found a natural alternative, lowered the cholesterol that way. Does that make me wrong? Does it make me arrogant? I don't think so. The professionals told me to take zocor. A drug that they need to monitor my liver function with lab tests to make sure its not damaging my liver.  What if the lab test shows your liver is damaged? Oppss... .  time to get off that drug now. Here let me prescribe you another to help with that liver damage we've just done.

I can think of a number of other prescriptions which I've refused and found alternatives for. I don't think that makes me arrogant, but your entitled to your belief.  

And I agree with you mggt. If it was my child, there is no way in hell I'd walk away and say nothing.

I wonder what is seen as more selfish or arrogant. Making your own decisions about your life and your loved ones. Or trying to force your beliefs on someone else and diagnos strangers  via internet forum thead.
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2013, 07:21:30 PM »

Quote from: SummerT321
I wonder what is seen as more selfish or arrogant. Making your own decisions about your life and your loved ones. Or trying to force your beliefs on someone else and diagnos strangers  via internet forum thead.

SummerT321,

You are making a good point here, but my perception is that this thread is becoming polarized. This is ironic, and a paradox, considering what we are discussing.

I think we can all agree that the 'splitting' -- polarization -- that happens in BPD is tragic and something that people who think in more greys, more often, have great trouble coming to terms with.

I suggest that we can apply that 'there are shades of grey' thinking to this thread also: there will be grey areas where it's right for a given person to detach and also say, "I believe you have BPD", in a compassionate way. It will probably be received split into negative, but it may be necessary for the person who is detaching to know they've done their best. And then there will be times, maybe the majority, where it's best for all concerned just to go quietly NC and leave the diagnosis to others.

Seeking Balance has stated that it's a 'FACT' that professionals recommend the second option. This may be true, and should not be forgotten.

But personally, I've had my own troubles with professionals in the health field, and ended up having to do my own research to find out about a personal condition that the health professionals I saw had no explanation for.

So I'd like to add something about 'FACTS' also: they exist in our mind, not as immutable solid reality. They are MODELS that are a group agreement on the best available evidence that explains a given set of measurements. They regularly get replaced by new models: think Newtonian physics->Einsteinian Relativity->Quantum Mechanics. Each one has facts that only remain facts until the deeper model appears.

And concerning BPD, we here are literally on the BLEEDING EDGE of where those models are constructed.     Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2013, 04:38:36 AM »

Well said pretty please. I really do relate to your post. And we are on the cutting edge. And in some cases the bleeding edge... .  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .  Yes,  I do see many shades of gray for this situation too. Ideally, an appropriate therapist would tell them. I wish mine would get one. Maybe he will. Thats my wish.
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« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2013, 08:05:52 AM »

Toliveistofly,

I will PM you regarding the question you asked me.

Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2013, 08:19:16 AM »

I have left my copy of SWOE, and some other books out on my desk.

She has seen them, and is angry about them - - but not directly to me.

Not saying it is right, would love to discuss Amegdala disfunction with her -- makes it more like a broken leg or something less personal. 

Our 8 year old son is early-showing some of the Traits and I would love to get him competent help upfront, so he does not have to suffer for decades like Mrs. Somewhere has.

Guess we are going to do Marriage Therapy or some such, and will get the pro's best approach.

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« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2013, 02:47:19 PM »

I think I got the diagnosis wrong, 2 years ago I thought he was bipolar, he has sort of admitted that, when really pushed he will say OK I have a double personality, then change the subject. I havent said the word borderline, but today on the phone after months of abusive texting since I left him, I mentioned projecting and he laughed hysterically. I said I know all about him, I really think I do, this forum has made me understand inside out why his behaviour was always so odd and illogical and we could not communicate. He loved that too, thought it was really funny, and in spite of me discovering him with another woman at our house only 6 days ago, he now is insisting that he comes round tonpick up my stuff and I move back in to "try to rebuild something together".

He has agreed to come to the BPD doctor I have talked too. Not sure whether I am wise to be still involved in all this, but maybe it will help him come to terms with why I cant go back... .  no I dont think he will come to terms with it, he has discovered after 12 years with me he can still get a new girlfriend, and that will be much more fun than having tonself-analyze and rebuild his relationship with me... .  ! But his bod has had a serious effect on our kids, and I know that as they turn into teenagers they will struggle with his inconsistent behaviour too, and they will fight with him, and I will always be the demon as it is all my fault - I left him so I have destroyed the family!

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« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2013, 03:23:47 PM »

Thanks interesting CMJO. That he "laughed" at you saying he was "projecting?" So, he at least had some knowledge of what projection was. I myself had to look that up when I found out it was a thing they do. Also, interesting. This is what actually caused the "worst" reaction in my pwBPD. Not the diagnosis it's self. I had already mentioned borderline personality. Infact I had mentioned that long ago. In an indirect way with literature. But it was me saying he was "projecting" on me. And I gave him the exact details of what I thought he was doing and why. When I say the "worst" reaction, what I mean is this is when he finally said. "I don't ever want to speak to you again!" Like a kid. He's never said that to me before. I think it was not so much the diagnosis which bothered him so much, but that I had figured him out right down to a T.
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« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2013, 03:46:37 PM »

Has anyone on this thread read the book "Loving Someone with BPD"?

It is very eye opening and worth the read if you want to be a supportive person to someone with BPD.

The more of these posts that I have read, it seems to me that there is a big difference between a "chosen" relationship and "unchosen" relationship.  What does this mean?  How you may handle a spouse (when kids are involved), child, parent, sibling (unchosen relationships) can be quite different than how one handles a gf/bf (chosen relationship).

Motivations will be different.

Ultimately, we all tend to do the best we can with the information we have - sometimes we get it right and sometimes we don't.  It's life and none of us here walk on water (that I am aware of... .  ) 

A summary of folks on this thread who have confronted on the leaving board has 1 success story.  My thoughts are the staying board likely has more successes.

Fundamentally - these relationships are difficult and how we may handle something in the heat of the moment vs. a few years after the fact will look different as well - time has a way of changing perspectives.



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« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2013, 03:52:02 PM »

I did point out how she was projecting on to me. She knew what it meant (I think). Sometimes when she thinks I am upset (reading me wrong) I just say lovingly, "hey! You're terrible at reading my face. Does this face say anything but love to you? I'm crazy about you". I told her before that she sees a guilty face because that's what she feels. Basically I told her lots of this stuff and I catch her doing these things. Like when she laughs mockingly, I say "defense mechanism: denial. I respect what you say but you mock me. Just letting you know we should talk like adults". This was during the course of the relationship. She gets caught off guard and isn't sure how to respond.

Funny story: I told her about projection and how I think it's one, if not THE, single most fascinating human charateristic. She set up an art show and called it National Projections. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 03:54:42 PM »

We want them to change so we can be happy... .  

No, I dont agree, I want so much for him to be happy. It is awful to realise how much pain he must be in, to see him cry. In between his rages and silences he made me happy, he could be inspiring funny and so loving. I dont want him to keep suffering, to be so afraid of loss, of death, surely some people can be successfully treated... .  does anyone know of anyone whose life was majorly improved by therapy for BPD?
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« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 04:10:34 PM »

CMJO- Yes. There are studies you can find online with cure rates ranging around 50% more or less. Some hiher some lower... .  DBT and Schema Therapy seem to be the most successful. The key is to make sure you get a good BPD specialist. One can't just walk into any therapist office and think they are going to be able to deal with BPD successfully. And also, the patient has to be the one to want it or it obviously doesn't work with out the patients desire and hard work.

NylonSquid,

You sound like you are able to disconnect and not take things personal and keep it light. That's good. When I first learned about projection I just figured it was when they blame us, I'm starting to see more clearly that projection is also about their defenses. It's not concious, you can't "talk" them into logic and have them change their mind. It's subconcious primative defense mechanism for coping with their emotions and we become their emotional puching bag and it makes them feel better. Thats why the do it. But not premeditated calculation.


SB, I think your right that this thread now may appear to be better fit on the staying board due to alot of the content on here now. I'm sure it could be moved if better suited. Makes no difference to me though.
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« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 06:04:10 PM »

NylonSquid,

You sound like you are able to disconnect and not take things personal and keep it light. That's good. When I first learned about projection I just figured it was when they blame us, I'm starting to see more clearly that projection is also about their defenses. It's not concious, you can't "talk" them into logic and have them change their mind. It's subconcious primative defense mechanism for coping with their emotions and we become their emotional puching bag and it makes them feel better. Thats why the do it. But not premeditated calculation.

Yes, I don't take it personally because it doesn't have to do with me. Neither her loving me. She just needs an object to love her, that can be me or any guy out there. This truth I have made peace with. Does not mean I don't love her and it doesn't mean the love she gives isn't unfiltered and childlike. I am in love with that part of her that gives it and it melts my heart. A perfect "need to be loved and love to be needed" relationship. Ah well... it is what it is. What has been hard for me is compromising myself. I just can't do a bunch of things I like to do and I can't feel as liberated expressing my thoughts. Hence, the walking on egg shells. I sometimes play the victim when she's upset or crying and act like I'm the victim. She hates when I turn it around. She looks at me like a little girl, stops crying and says "this is not fair. It's about me not you". Haha.

Seeking Balance: Thanks for the suggestion.
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« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 06:28:22 PM »

As far as the statistics go... .  These are rates for people who go into and stick with treatment. These are not rates for the general population which is very adverse to treatment. Just to put those numbers in perspective.

Honestly. If he really wants to tell her... .  tell her. It isn't going to matter. People with BPD do need support. Consistent everyday support with boundaries from people who are in control of their emotions and can make clear decisions. They need less emotional upheaval not more. Generally ex partners tend to believe that if they just give a bit more love the SO will get it and everything will be fine. This makes it worse. They are not in a position for a healthy two way relationship. They need less emotional passion not more. Two people going through a breakup both emotionally sensitive and one with a disorder marked by emotional sensitivity! The problem with an ex lover who isn't planning on sticking around telling them should be obvious if you have studied BPD at all. The abandoning partner (perceived or real) telling them they are crazy is going to help?

What are the are success stories? From reading the staying board and family board it is generally most helpful with a parent figure who is there to establish firm boundaries and direct their mental health care as needed. When it is a child it is a lot easier. For the staying board it is essentially the same thing with an added twist. The partner has to be in a bad enough spot to want to make a change. Usually suicidal. The support is based on having loved ones who accept that their partner is disordered and is going to have an incredibly difficult time getting over it. These are people who take care of their own emotional needs and who are a bit detached. Who will not get overly upset if they run away or insult them or just completely fail with their latest therapist. It isn't a pretty picture. You are posting on a thread for people who believe their partners have a personality disorder. Do you really think that somebody with mental illness just hears that they are crazy and get better? Wow. I wish it were so easy! Do you actually think your ex partner has a mental disorder? If  you don't and believe she just has a few BPD traits why don't you talk about those traits rather than accusing her of being full blown BPD? That might give you a starting point for a conversation and you can see whose advice is correct.

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« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2013, 07:20:45 PM »

Lol... .  yes they hate when you turn it back around on them NylonSquid. Mine too. But this not being able to do things and be yourself is the reason why I decided I to let him go and the denial too.
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« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2013, 09:51:45 PM »

My thought on this is to not tell them. My BPDexgf is already aware that there is something very wrong with her. She is deathly afraid of other people finding out. I found out over the span of 15+ years with her. Her husband probably figured it out too, but he didn't live to tell anyone about it that I know of. Once we were separating, she tried to force me to commit suicide through unrelenting verbal, emotional, and physical abuse. Whether consciously or subconsciously, she could not let her secret get out. Once it was clear I was going to make it out alive, she ramped up a distortion campaign to destroy my reputation and credibility. She even tried to get me arrested and charged with a felony. Anything to ensure her secret stayed a secret. This is a powerful mental illness. It is not a matter of: Duh, I have no idea what is going on, Duh... .  

Simply telling a BPD that you suspect they have BPD is not likely to result in a light-bulb moment. I think the reason why professionals approach BPD very carefully is precisely because they understand the complex nature of the disorder and the innate defense mechanisms that protect it from being exposed and treated. If they can carefully and slowly defuse the bombs and booby traps--peeling back the defense mechanisms, the BPD has a much better chance of continuing therapy and actually getting well. It doesn't need a label for a professional to deal with it if the pro knows what they are dealing with.

Kind of like a bomb-squad technician. They don't need a brand name and model number on a device to know how to defuse it. They rely on their knowledge and experience dealing with similar devices to plan and execute a course of action that brings about the desired result.

That being said, I hope some therapist tells my ex that she is stark-raving BPD, and if she doesn't get immediate, intensive therapy she will die penniless, alone, and insane.
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« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2013, 08:43:50 AM »

I have tried but usually my timing was bad and my udBPDexgf will take any talk about her problem as a personal attack. It is very tough on her to think or talk about it because by conventional norms her behavior makes her look like she is using people intentionally.

In all of our many recycles it did seem like her moments of awareness became progressively more frequent. When she is having these moments of awareness she has overwhelming guilt about her behavior.

It is a sad thing to behold. Mental illness sucks.
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« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2013, 08:12:01 AM »



Staff only


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“Don’t shrink. Don’t puff up. Stand on your sacred ground.”  Brené Brown
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

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Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
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