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Author Topic: Why do you think they are better after us?  (Read 10359 times)
goldylamont
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« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2013, 03:40:49 AM »

hi all, i didn't want to stray too far off the original poster's topic and have been thinking about forgiveness some. it's something i really want to understand more and work towards. if interested check out this thread:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210701.msg12321827#msg12321827

want this thread to keep going though. lots of good discussion here! 
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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2013, 07:04:44 AM »

Ironman,

I believe that whenever they become 'close' with someone, (granted the person did not pick up on any  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) or just decided to stay regardless) this closeness, the bond between the partners triggers them. So in a way we triggered them but in a second-hand type of way. What I mean is that it could be anyone really not necessarily us, just anyone who can fill that role and bring out certain types of feelings.

However, BPD will reveal it's big ugly head with Mr. right, wrong, mr abusive, mr. mommas boy, mr. independent etc.

Goldylamont,

I agree with you Indifference to my ex- this is forgivess to me  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I also agree that it's something that will occur naturally.

I see trying to get over a BPDex like an insomniac trying to fall asleep. The harder they 'try' to fall asleep the more they cant sleep.

The more we try to forgive, or to say I'm ok after the relationship, the harder it is for us. That's just my take. It comes naturally. The same thoughts I have now, I had a year ago about my BPD, the only thing that's different is that it just comes naturally. When you start to put things into perspective, it just comes naturally.
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peas
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2013, 12:33:15 PM »

Excerpt
But I quickly thought about her past and issues and there is no way it was me. In addition, I kinda strayed from the solely focusing on her BPD. Bpd or not, she needs help, it was stupid of me to stay for 8 months.

I agree. My ex was a big drinker, a functional alcoholic. Maybe it's because of BPD demons, but BPD or not, his drinking caused all the usual intimacy and personality problems. This man drank heavily before me and will most likely continue to drink heavily after me. He too needs help.
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peas
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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2013, 01:32:02 PM »

Excerpt
that's my main goal now, full forgiveness. it's just that i don't work towards it, it's something i feel will occur naturally for me over time as i fully heal. my path is nothing less than complete detachment, moving on, finding someone more beautiful and total indifference to my ex. << this is forgiveness to me--my behavior and true emotions. and i'm so much closer than i was a year ago!

Yes! I too believe the forgiveness is not something you force and how it looks and feels is subjective.

I have had two hard breakups in the past three years. It surprised me how much the losses set me back. I am usually quite good with r/s's and breakups.

The first b/u, with a non-BPD guy, I allowed myself to really feel all the hurt, dishonesty and anger. I chose to be angry and unforgiving -- carried a huge grudge and would tell anyone who asked. I know that goes against a lot of therapy norms. I immediately went NC and I willingly hated my ex and everything about him. It was liberating because I normally don't allow myself to indulge in such negative feelings and behavior.

A year after that b/u, the hard feelings melted away.  I was able to rebuild and see the ex and the r/s from a more rational perspective and understand why we weren't meant to be together and that I held on too long to a dying r/s. Now I am friendly with that ex. We're not close or anything, but if we have to interact, it's honest and pleasant. I have zero romantic feelings for him.

The BPD guy, that's a slightly different story because BPD guy put me through verbal and emotional abuse, which I had never experienced from a SO. I had never had a boyfriend who went out of his way to hurt me, lead me on and take so much from me like he did. I also "connected" with him much more intensely than other bf's and let him shred my boundaries. Anyway, that r/s ended 3.5 months ago (we were together seven months; he broke up with me) and I am using the same approach as the former b/u -- NC, just feeling the anger, confusion, betrayal, and yes, love and romance, and letting go when it happens organically.

The weird thing is I have more compassion for the BPD guy after the b/u than I do for the non-BPD guy after that b/u. Probably because the BPD guy demonstrated much more weakness than the non-BPD bf.

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Clearmind
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« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2013, 12:06:22 AM »

Why do you think your BPDex partner will be better or 'is' better with the next person? What's the reason behind this irrational fear?

Because I blamed myself for the relationship demise. My childhood dictated that whatever I do it’s never enough and inevitably I was blamed.

We repeat childhood conditioning until we begin to recognize our faulty beliefs are product of our childhood.

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peas
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« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2013, 09:57:16 AM »

Excerpt
Because I blamed myself for the relationship demise. My childhood dictated that whatever I do it’s never enough and inevitably I was blamed.

Clearmind, I blame myself too for the r/s demise, but I don't link it to my childhood, which appears to have been different than yours. I didn't grow up with blame. In fact, my parents were of the touchy-feely express-yourself mindset (hey, it was the 70s) and I had a lot of positive reinforcement. I was very self-directed growing up.

I still managed to get tangled up with a pwBPD and limped away plagued with all kinds of ego, guilt, blame, shame, etc. problems.

I have been trying to draw a connection from my past to the BPD r/s. One of the things I am looking at are there were so few boundaries in my childhood that maybe that contributed to me putting up with the uBPDexbf. But I think it's less what I am bringing from my childhood and more where I am in life now. I have hit a rough spot where my main priority is to be partnered with someone, I want to settle down and have security. He exposed that major desire, which I had been denying, and I was determined to satisfy it. I had a template in my head of how I want my life and he came along and offered to realize it (in words, but not actions) -- finally marriage, kids and a house. I was hooked. 
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« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2013, 10:42:11 AM »

Why are they better after us?

Well the short answer is, they aren’t.

[... .]

I think a lot of our confusion and us thinking they are better stems from our own insecurities. 

Yes.

Through therapy, I've learnt that severe emotional abuse in my childhood from my now-dead sister convinced me that everyone in the whole world would prefer to be with someone else than me. Anyone else than me, but ideally everyone in the whole wide world would really prefer to be with my sister. Relatives, friends, boyfriends - everyone. They all would prefer to be in the company of anyone other than me.

So to have what felt like the only man who ever loved me, move on to my replacement... .that hurt badly.

But it is very little to do with my ex moving on, and very little to do with what the new victim is like - it's to do with my fear of everyone "preferring" someone else to me.
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Clearmind
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« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2013, 03:33:25 PM »

Excerpt
Because I blamed myself for the relationship demise. My childhood dictated that whatever I do it’s never enough and inevitably I was blamed.

Clearmind, I blame myself too for the r/s demise, but I don't link it to my childhood, which appears to have been different than yours. I didn't grow up with blame. In fact, my parents were of the touchy-feely express-yourself mindset (hey, it was the 70s) and I had a lot of positive reinforcement. I was very self-directed growing up.

I still managed to get tangled up with a pwBPD and limped away plagued with all kinds of ego, guilt, blame, shame, etc. problems.

I have been trying to draw a connection from my past to the BPD r/s. One of the things I am looking at are there were so few boundaries in my childhood that maybe that contributed to me putting up with the uBPDexbf. But I think it's less what I am bringing from my childhood and more where I am in life now. I have hit a rough spot where my main priority is to be partnered with someone, I want to settle down and have security. He exposed that major desire, which I had been denying, and I was determined to satisfy it. I had a template in my head of how I want my life and he came along and offered to realize it (in words, but not actions) -- finally marriage, kids and a house. I was hooked. 

Good connection peas!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  And yes you are so right - sometimes when kids have no boundaries we allow others to dictate them when we are adults. Our parents did their best - we need to carry the load now and decide what we want to keep (as part of our childhood conditioning) and what we want to replace with our own boundaries, beliefs, moral code.

Reading up on boundaries would be really helpful for you peas: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=59097.0
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« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2013, 06:14:37 PM »

Our parents did their best - we need to carry the load now and decide what we want to keep (as part of our childhood conditioning) and what we want to replace with our own boundaries, beliefs, moral code.

We frequently discuss understanding our Family of Origin (FOO) issues.  While I find it helpful to look at the past, I think we sometimes get stuck in analysis paralasis.  At some point in time shouldn't we attract, find, maintain healthy relationships once we understand our FOO issues? Why are there so many single people (men and women) that don't seem to get there?  (Me included as I consider myself and older wiser person.)  I keep thinking what's the deal?
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« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 06:32:39 PM »

It seems, from my life and this site, that most of them are not better afterwards because they do not do the work to better themselves. Change comes from within. Going by what's on the surface can be very deceptive, especially when that's all you have to go on. More cycles of using and being used does not a pretty picture make.
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« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 06:44:55 PM »

One of my good friends helped shake me back to reality once when I was lamenting on the phone one night, a Saturday night, that I am so lonely and worse off after the b/u and my ex was probably having a great night with one of the many women he said wanted to sleep with him. 

And my friend firmly responded, "No, he's probably drunk."

My ex is an alcoholic. I felt so much better when she reminded me.
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musicfan42
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« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 08:30:28 PM »

We frequently discuss understanding our Family of Origin (FOO) issues.  While I find it helpful to look at the past, I think we sometimes get stuck in analysis paralasis.  At some point in time shouldn't we attract, find, maintain healthy relationships once we understand our FOO issues? Why are there so many single people (men and women) that don't seem to get there?  (Me included as I consider myself and older wiser person.)  I keep thinking what's the deal?

I think that being aware of Family of Origin (FOO) issues is only step 1-it's only awareness of the problem but then the problem remains there to be solved. Step 2 is definitely about problem solving-writing down an inventory to figure out what self-sabotaging behaviors one may do in relationships. For me, I rushed into relationships, didn't really think before I spoke/acted... was basically very impulsive. I had to stop and take relationships slower. I also had to learn assertiveness skills too. I'm not saying that I've gotten it totally figured out because who has but I think that I've made progress.

I also realized that I was attracted to people's "potential"-who they could be in the future as opposed to who they actually were in the here-and-now. I had to get real and say to myself that potential means nothing-that we all have the potential to be astronauts etc but that most of us are not going to do it. I realized that unless I see someone taking decisive action in their life, then all the flowery words in the world mean nothing. So basically actions > words.
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« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2013, 08:30:45 PM »

My ex was not diagnosed but so much of what I experienced I see in the posts here, some almost verbatim, which still freaks me out.

I know the r/s ripped the scabs off childhood messages of not being good enough for a multitude of reasons. My ex had an uncanny way of saying very hurtful things with a big smile on her face. I still don't know if she just had a bizarre sense of humor or if she was just being nasty.

It really undermined my self confidence, made me feel very inadequate, and very confused as to what was really happening and what was real.

As much as I know about this disorder and how it plays out, it still hurts to see her involved with someone new. It smarts even more to see this new person say "they have incredible sexual and non sexual energy and just feel like they fit together."

It just rips open what had been healing for many months.
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« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2013, 09:01:44 PM »

My ex was not diagnosed but so much of what I experienced I see in the posts here, some almost verbatim, which still freaks me out.

I know the r/s ripped the scabs off childhood messages of not being good enough for a multitude of reasons. My ex had an uncanny way of saying very hurtful things with a big smile on her face. I still don't know if she just had a bizarre sense of humor or if she was just being nasty.

It really undermined my self confidence, made me feel very inadequate, and very confused as to what was really happening and what was real.


As much as I know about this disorder and how it plays out, it still hurts to see her involved with someone new. It smarts even more to see this new person say "they have incredible sexual and non sexual energy and just feel like they fit together."

It just rips open what had been healing for many months.

I am sorry you experienced that.

In bold.

It was the same for me too.

And for practically... .

Everyone else on here too.

That is BPD.

Hell on earth.

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peas
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« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2013, 11:11:40 PM »

Musicfan, this is insightful:

Excerpt
I think that being aware of Family of Origin (FOO) issues is only step 1-it's only awareness of the problem but then the problem remains there to be solved. Step 2 is definitely about problem solving-writing down an inventory to figure out what self-sabotaging behaviors one may do in relationships. For me, I rushed into relationships, didn't really think before I spoke/acted... was basically very impulsive. I had to stop and take relationships slower. I also had to learn assertiveness skills too. I'm not saying that I've gotten it totally figured out because who has but I think that I've made progress.

I also realized that I was attracted to people's "potential"-who they could be in the future as opposed to who they actually were in the here-and-now. I had to get real and say to myself that potential means nothing-that we all have the potential to be astronauts etc but that most of us are not going to do it. I realized that unless I see someone taking decisive action in their life, then all the flowery words in the world mean nothing. So basically actions > words.

On the first part, I, too am impulsive and usually rushed into relationships and settled quickly. As a result I wasted years with the wrong person in past r/s's. I also need to better develop assertiveness.

And I agree with your thoughts on being attracted to people with potential and how that just feeds illusions. I had not really identified that and you have given me something to think about as I am the same way. I never thought of myself as a fixer or rescuer type in r/s's, but I am drawn to identifying and helping develop a mate's potential, a behavior I now see is related to the rescuer role. You are right, potential means nothing. The truth is in decisive action.
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Emelie Emelie
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« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 11:49:48 PM »

I think they might appear to be "better" at first.  Right after our break up I was a mess and he was all good.  Because their issues  manifest in relationships I think there's probably some relief for them when the rs is over.  But their issues don't go away and long term, or in the next relationship, they're not "better"  They're dealing with the same s@it.
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« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2013, 12:08:16 AM »

I realized that unless I see someone taking decisive action in their life, then all the flowery words in the world mean nothing. So basically actions > words.

I'd like some examples of actions.  I'm not sure that it requires taking things slower for me.  I suspect it means kicking people to the curb as soon as I know something's not quite right.  That's what's always been difficult for me.  Because I feel like I can make it work if I try more.  And the trying more results in me being a doormat.  I need to try less--Very Counter intuitive.  Setting boundaries also felt counter intuitive.  I can say I am so much better at it now.  In all areas of my life. 
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musicfan42
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« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 03:09:47 AM »

I realized that unless I see someone taking decisive action in their life, then all the flowery words in the world mean nothing. So basically actions > words.

I'd like some examples of actions.  I'm not sure that it requires taking things slower for me.  I suspect it means kicking people to the curb as soon as I know something's not quite right.  That's what's always been difficult for me.  Because I feel like I can make it work if I try more.  And the trying more results in me being a doormat.  I need to try less--Very Counter intuitive.  Setting boundaries also felt counter intuitive.  I can say I am so much better at it now.  In all areas of my life. 

Ok well here are examples:

-a guy says that you're his "soul mate", that he loves you... they're the words. (take them with a heavy pinch of salt!)

The actions would be treating you well, showing that he loves you through validating you, comforting you when you're upset, accepting you as you are, not trying to change you, supporting you, encouraging you etc.

If someone is hyper-critical, then that's not love-that's control. If someone doesn't want you to have friends/family around you, that's control. And if someone is jealous, that's control. It's irritating because it demonstrates a real lack of trust-that they don't trust you to be faithful even though you've done nothing wrong.

-a cheater says "oh it'll never happen again", "it meant nothing", "she was all over me/threw herself on me", "I only love you"-they're the words.

The actions would be NOT to cheat in the first place and then they wouldn't have to make up these pathetic excuses. Cheating is just unacceptable, end of. It's an example of emotional abuse-it's so disrespectful and hurtful to the other person.

-your SO (significant other) might complain about how he hates his job and is going to apply for a new one (they're the words).

The actions would be to actually send CVs out, go on interviews etc. If he doesn't do these things, then he's not really serious about getting a new job

-your SO (significant other) might complain about their weight and vows to go on a diet. (they're the words)

-the actions would be to eat healthy and exercise more.

There's a thing I came across called "the 50% rule"-that you're only responsible for 50% of the relationships... your own actions. You're not responsible for someone else's actions.

I used to try too hard to make relationships work out but honestly, they're not meant to be that hard... you're either compatible with someone or you're not... that's it. If you feel that you're walking on eggshells with someone, then it's just not a healthy relationship. I want to be with someone that I can feel to express my thoughts/feelings/opinions without being chastised or told that I'm "wrong". I want to have the freedom to make my own decisions in my life without being told what I "should" be doing. I feel that men have told me in the past that I'm "too feisty" and honestly, they were the wrong men for me. I just think now "like me or lump me-this is who I am and that's it". I feel like there's some men who just want to shut me up-that I'm too talkative for their liking, too loud, too whatever. I used to take this criticism to heart but now I think "why should I? Maybe they should talk more, be more emotionally expressive and give me what I want... it's not all about them and their needs... I have needs too".
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« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 08:20:29 AM »

Oh my goodness what a great question!

For me, I wonder if it's because I still can idealize sometimes the good parts of my ex, so I imagine that version of her with a new guy, and forget the rough stuff ( I try not to think in terms of good and bad, yet I do sometimes, so I might as well be honest ).

I think it's also something else thats very powerful - it's that feeling that much of it could be me. This may not make sense but I remember she would say things to me after she'd have an anger outburst like "When you're angry at me I have a hard time not thinking its me, so I overreact".

So its a similar thing for both her and I.

The funny twist is, when I'd hear her say this I found it tough because I felt the way I would express my feelings was usually pretty constructive and not abusive. Not venting. So she'd be apologizing for how she received it, but what was so frustrating to me was that she wouldn't say "hmmmm... .let me think about what you feel angry/sad/afraid about and take a look at my role in whats happened."

Another reason I think they might be better, is wondering if I actually was too jealous. It's taken me so much work to recognize that maybe all the stuff I observed and interactions she had with men were some form of betrayals. And yet I can still be unsure that maybe I was just being "TOO SENSITIVE, TOO INSECURE, ALL Fhit_ED UP, DAMAGED" Sometimes she'd say stuff like that. And maybe the reason it was so hard is, part of me is, but just not as much as she'd say. SO then I fear she'd meet someone who isn't. And thats where I guess I can eventually just wish other people happiness and work on me. But I'm still in the waves of emotion lately, even though she broke up with me so many times, I am doing better than before. And I had a part in ending it this time.

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« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 10:05:10 AM »

very interesting posts!

If I may add, during the honeymoon phase, she would do and tell me things she 'has never told any other guy before' so when we broke up and I heard down the grapevine about how "amazing she is and this guy is great" it made me feel that maybe I'm not unique to her feelings. Maybe this guy will get an even better emotional response from her. Now I realize that this is just nonsense, it's just hooks to line us in, they are very smart when it comes to reeling us in.

MY BPDex also had very cruel snide remarks that she would mask under a smile or just bhity passive aggressive marks that stabbed me.

I'm not sure if it was some sort of inadequacy from childhood, unloving mom/dad because my parents were too loving and too forgiving of my actions. Perhaps that's where I picked up that forgiving behavior. Whenever a family member (as messed up as they might have been to us) needed help my parents would "do the right thing" instead of saying f**k off. No one really helped us out we were by ourselves but we always helped out others. I applied that I saw into this. I forgave, and forgave 50% could be from my childhood 50% because she was a victim of sexual abuse.

Either way, at this point, I highly doubt they are ok with the next person. I don't really thin about it too much and if so, great just get the hell away from me and don't advertise your happiness near me.
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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 12:50:09 PM »

Deleted-your last post was so insightful!

If I may add, during the honeymoon phase, she would do and tell me things she 'has never told any other guy before' so when we broke up and I heard down the grapevine about how "amazing she is and this guy is great" it made me feel that maybe I'm not unique to her feelings. Maybe this guy will get an even better emotional response from her. Now I realize that this is just nonsense, it's just hooks to line us in, they are very smart when it comes to reeling us in.

Damn-I hadn't figured this out. I've had a few boyfriends and friends tell me "oh I never tell anyone this" and I believed them whereas now I'm wondering whether this is just a load of crap... Hmm, not a nice feeling at all.

MY BPDex also had very cruel snide remarks that she would mask under a smile or just bhity passive aggressive marks that stabbed me.

I've had female friends do this to me in the past... .hmm...

I'm not sure if it was some sort of inadequacy from childhood, unloving mom/dad because my parents were too loving and too forgiving of my actions. Perhaps that's where I picked up that forgiving behavior. Whenever a family member (as messed up as they might have been to us) needed help my parents would "do the right thing" instead of saying f**k off. No one really helped us out we were by ourselves but we always helped out others. I applied that I saw into this. I forgave, and forgave 50% could be from my childhood 50% because she was a victim of sexual abuse.

My mother was very loving and almost too forgiving of my actions. I don't want to go into it here but yeah, I think I picked it up off her... I was very drawn to other people who were worse off than me... You mention that your ex was a victim of sexual abuse. So was my BPD ex. I was drawn to this-I felt so sorry for him. I wanted him to give him the love he had never been given. I felt that he was great for being so willing to be emotionally sensitive-for being open about his emotions when so many men are emotionally repressed in society. My father was extremely emotionally repressed so there is a part of me that wants a man who has good communication skills. There is an emotional longing within me for that because I didn't have it growing up so I think that my BPD ex unconsciously tapped into that. Maybe a girl who had a good father wouldn't have been drawn to my BPD ex? Because a girl with a good father would have had a good paternal role model growing up and a good image of men whereas I had a very poor male role model growing up. I just thought that all men were horrible and out to hurt me really.

Either way, at this point, I highly doubt they are ok with the next person. I don't really thin about it too much and if so, great just get the hell away from me and don't advertise your happiness near me.

Urgh-that's exactly how I feel... "don't advertise your happiness near me". Deep down, I don't want him to be happy. I want him to be miserable-to say "oh why did I mess musicfan42 around? She was the best that ever happened to me... I made such a mistake". I don't want him to succeed. When someone hurts me, I do kind of want something bad to happen to them-not life threatening or anything like that but definitely to be miserable, alone, not doing well in their life. I want them to be the loser basically. I want to look like the winner-the person who is doing better in their life. I've never realized that I have these feelings of hatred within me... well not to this extent. I used to say "oh I wish everyone well" but thinking about it now... I really don't. I pretty much want them to be socially humiliated in some manner... that about summarizes it.

I actually feel pretty okay about this-before I was very forgiving... too forgiving whereas I think that it was actually masking my true emotions of anger and hatred. I'd try to forgive people and wouldn't succeed and then blame myself for not being able to forgive them...  Whereas now, I think "why should I forgive someone that does something unforgivable?" I think the onus is on them to make amends as opposed to on me... I don't feel a duty any longer to forgive people. I just don't think it's a fair thing to ask of me... or of anyone really... it's too much to ask.

Peas: I also notice that I'm a born romantic and I think that's been a bit problematic for me in relationships. I love Disney cartoons on fairy-tales and "Beauty and the Beast" is my favorite. I saw myself as Belle... I loved reading (still do) and I wasn't happy in my small town either... felt like an outsider/more cultured than the other people. So I could relate to how Belle perceived the Beast to be just "misunderstood" as opposed to "a monster" (the townspeople called him a monster in the film!) And then at the end of the film, the Beast turns into a really hot guy who also happens to be kind and loving... the full package really. In the film, there's scenes on how Belle teaches the Beast table manners instead of slobbering his food all over the place in an animal like manner. I know it's only a film but oh my god, it really spoke to me because I was there, busy fixing people... thinking that I could reform someone and mold them into what I wanted them to be. Belle was also fiercely loyal to anyone she loved in the film-first of all, it was her father, then she became loyal to the beast and defended him against the townspeople. I'm so like that too-if someone criticizes someone I love, I automatically get overprotective and think "leave my poor __ (insert name) alone!" Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

I'm thinking about that film now and realizing that you could say "the Beast" could be a metaphor for a horrible guy-that Belle is this innocent, sheltered girl living with her dad and she's basically clueless about what life is really like. And then Belle meets this charming guy who has a big mansion of a place and she thinks "wow isn't this cool?" without realizing that there's strings attached to it... .that the guy wants to keep her in the castle and is just using her to break his stupid spell... that it's not about her at all but rather his own ulterior motives!
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« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 01:06:15 PM »

Urgh-that's exactly how I feel... "don't advertise your happiness near me". Deep down, I don't want him to be happy. I want him to be miserable-to say "oh why did I mess musicfan42 around? She was the best that ever happened to me... I made such a mistake". I don't want him to succeed. When someone hurts me, I do kind of want something bad to happen to them-not life threatening or anything like that but definitely to be miserable, alone, not doing well in their life. I want them to be the loser basically. I want to look like the winner-the person who is doing better in their life. I've never realized that I have these feelings of hatred within me... well not to this extent. I used to say "oh I wish everyone well" but thinking about it now... I really don't. I pretty much want them to be socially humiliated in some manner... that about summarizes it.

I mostly feel the same. I don't think I'd call it hatred, but I definitely am aware that I want to feel like "I'm the winner... .you're the loser" - like IronManFalls' signature "Congratulations... .you lost me" but a bit more so.

I really want his new relationship to fail, asap. I had to block all her internet stuff too, because I kept stalking her as well as him.

The thing is - the timing of mine... .my therapist was gently but steadily coaching me to be more independent of him, to break my side of the codependency, and each step of his progress with my replacement happened in direct response to my being more independent.

The first real break from me came because for two weeks he'd been hinting gently at a future together, and I kept saying, "yes - as friends, not lovers. We still love each other, but can't be together, so I shall adjust and accept that you'll see other women, go off for odd weekends here and there".

He kept saying I'd misunderstood, I'd got it wrong, that he loves me, that he isn't in a relationship with anyone, not with Replacement he'd spent the weekend in June with, not with anyone. All he was doing in his evenings was tinkering with his laptop's problems and talking to me. He wasn't seeing anyone, he wasn't dating anyone, there was nobody else but me, and he loves me.

I kept saying, "but there will be, sooner or later, so I'm just preparing myself for that time" and he was getting mroe and more frantic, trying to get me to accept that there was no-one, there was only me, there would only ever be me.

Then I commented on the FB Wall of one of his friends (he never liked me talking to men), nothing incriminating, just jokey - and my BPD went ballistic and told me he was going to be away certain dates. I said, "ok, have a nice weekend then" and he said it was a week, so I said, "ok have a nice week then" and at that point he started dropping HUGE hints about how he'd be abroad, and wouldn't be able to check I was ok, and he'd be so worried. I pointed out that all of Europe has mobile phone coverage but anyway I'd be fine, and then he said, "well, take a guess, Escaped, why the bleep do you think I won't be able to contact you? Who do you think it is I'm going to stay with?"

so I defriended and blocked him.

We limped on til Sept 30th, with him still sending messages (I never replied after Sept 1st when I emailed saying I would not be replying to anything he sent as I felt our communication was not healthy for either of us) - but he was still sending "I love you... .our relationship is (present tense) so important to me, I've never stopped loving you" and making disparaging comments about "other people" finding him exciting, whatever, but it's only me who truly knows him.

then I contacted her direct and found that she's thought they were in a relationship. I sent him an angry email telling him I will not permit him to continue actively trying to destroy me and he would never hear from me again. Multiple angry messages from him, so I blocked all those sources.

That night he changed his FB status  to "in a relationship" - although not with whom, and she didn't change hers.

So... .I think he has actually gone into his new relationship partly to spite me and upset me.

He's already controlling and manipulating her - the day he came back from the week with her in Sept he defriended her, then refriended her later that day - and her reply to me last Monday was couched in his words, plus she blocked me on Wed, not Monday, after I had done nothing, so I'm guessing that was his instigation also.

But... .well... .there are other things too - it just seems that every stage of his progress with her is a reaction to my increasing independence, my 'rejection' of his love.

Dunno. Nobody can know... .

But I will be really happy when it ends. A friend is keeping an eye on it for me, and has agreed to tell me nothing at all except when it ends... .it will all be over by Christmas, as the saying goes, I reckon... .if he's defriending already as well as dictating her behaviour... .it's the push-pull-push-pull dance, isn't it?
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« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 01:33:55 PM »

Geez, as compassionate as I genuinely aspire to be, I read stories like this, and see and feel the similarities to my own, and can't help but have moments when all I feel is jeezus, these people are all effing psychos.

All completely needless, unnecessary drama. No more, no less. Self-destructive, other-destructive, unproductive, hateful, hurtful DRAMA.

No. Reason. For. It.

No. Idea. Why.

I get that their brains just don't work right -- but, jeezus! -- how can such over-the-top, blatantly erratic, volatile and arguably insane behavior NOT be noticed by the person doing it? How can it be habitually UNaddressed?

Sheesh!

Starting to consider creating an underground vigilante group of BPD Cops. We will keep watch and round these people up. Once captured, they will be incarcerated in a high-security DBT compound. They will have visitation privileges, strictly controlled by veteran therapists who must be highly experienced in dealing with BPD. They will have no opportunity for parole -- their only way to get out will be to Take the Cure.

Who's in?
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« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 01:47:06 PM »

Geez, as compassionate as I genuinely aspire to be, I read stories like this, and see and feel the similarities to my own, and can't help but have moments when all I feel is jeezus, these people are all effing psychos.

All completely needless, unnecessary drama. No more, no less. Self-destructive, other-destructive, unproductive, hateful, hurtful DRAMA.

No. Reason. For. It.

No. Idea. Why.

I get that their brains just don't work right -- but, jeezus! -- how can such over-the-top, blatantly erratic, volatile and arguably insane behavior NOT be noticed by the person doing it? How can it be habitually UNaddressed?

Sheesh!

Starting to consider creating an underground vigilante group of BPD Cops. We will keep watch and round these people up. Once captured, they will be incarcerated in a high-security DBT compound. They will have visitation privileges, strictly controlled by veteran therapists who must be highly experienced in dealing with BPD. They will have no opportunity for parole -- their only way to get out will be to Take the Cure.

Who's in?

Me.

Powering up my Ironman suit.

Most systems on it are still offline/damaged.

But i will help you detect them.

Their presence amongst nons... .

Is catastrophic.

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« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2013, 01:54:40 PM »

Oh mine knows something's wrong with him... .

From the start, he's had very occasional moments when he's felt really low, described himself as feeling empty and like he isn't there, and in those times he's said things like "I'm no good for you - I would always end up hurting you" - I ask why, he says, "I don't know! I don't know! It's just... .how i am... ."

"I wish I wasn't like this... .I'm so, so sorry. I wish I didn't do stupid stuff and hurt people"

"You deserve better - you need someone more stable, less erratic, less stupid and immature and arrogant and stupid - you need someone less me... ."

And as for never apologising... .after what at the time seemed a weekend-fling, he apologised, I later reckoned up, 45 times in 56 days on FB messaging, plus others by phone and email. And not just "I'm sorry" but real "I am truly sorry that I have hurt you so badly at a time when you have enough pain to deal with" (bereavement in my family). "You need love right now, and I wish I could give you that, but it's all twisted up now for you, because of my stupidity".

There's enough self-awareness there that he knows he is toxic, he knows he always ends up hurting people he cares about - but he can't think why it happens, why he does this.

I would just think he was an insecure guy with commitment problems, who had a load of stress in midwinter... .except that he fits 7 of the 9 diagnostic criteria listed elsewhere here for BPD; he was previously successfully treated for dysthymia, but considered it 'cured' seemingly unaware it re-emerges under stress and can evolve into cyclothymia, a form of bipolar disorder... .

... .and above all, because the mirroring was textbook... .the push-pull dance was textbook... .and those seem to be present in every single story I've read in here in the last few weeks.

"I found my soulmate... .he distanced himself, then we were closer than ever, but then he pushed me away again... .it was so perfect, then I could do nothing right and I didn't understand why... .then he came back and it was wonderful... .then he stopped replying to messages... .then he came back and said he loves me... .then he wouldn't answer my calls... ." etc., etc.

Mirroring and push-pull dance. Textbook.


But yeah, mine knows something's up.


My current fave line from him... .

"I'm... .not like other people... ."

TOO DAMN RIGHT YOU'RE NOT!

It isn't his fault. He is damaged. His childhood was hell, with some head trauma in early childhood too. (I met his mum, this is from her).

I love him still - I suspect I always will love him. But the only way I ever get into dialogue with him ever again is when his specialising-in-Cluster-B therapist asks me to attend sessions for discussion of his behaviour in our relationship as part of his assessment and ongoing treatment.

Since he isn't seeing any therapist and angrily claimed "I don't need advice from you!" when I suggested he should talk to someone further about dysthymia/ cyclothymia, I don't see that happening. Not til he's destroyed some more women's lives and sanity.

But I'm never entering dialogue with him directly again without that.
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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2013, 01:58:33 PM »

Me.

Powering up my Ironman suit.

Most systems on it are still offline/damaged.

But i will help you detect them.

Their presence amongst nons... .

Is catastrophic.

Oh God, this is going to really help me, you know that? This is exactly how my ex-bf used to talk, that he was IM and would always help me, always save me... .after I sent the Sept 1st email saying I would no longer reply, he sent messages saying, "Jesus, please just tell me you're alive. Tell me you're ok. Otherwise I'll have to power up the suit and fly up to save you"!

It was so... .special... .it was just between the two of us... .please, please keep powering up YOUR Iron Man suit, because it really is gonna help me to recognise that there are other guys in the world who can play at being Stark without genuinely believing they can behave like he does at the start of the tirlogy! Smiling (click to insert in post)

My last angry email to him before blocking as much as I could: included the line "you're stuck in the first half-hour of the first film, you immature idiot".

Can't think why he got so angry... .
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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2013, 02:05:00 PM »

Oh mine knows something's wrong with him... .

From the start, he's had very occasional moments when he's felt really low, described himself as feeling empty and like he isn't there, and in those times he's said things like "I'm no good for you - I would always end up hurting you" - I ask why, he says, "I don't know! I don't know! It's just... .how i am... ."

"I wish I wasn't like this... .I'm so, so sorry. I wish I didn't do stupid stuff and hurt people"

"You deserve better - you need someone more stable, less erratic, less stupid and immature and arrogant and stupid - you need someone less me... ."


And as for never apologising... .after what at the time seemed a weekend-fling, he apologised, I later reckoned up, 45 times in 56 days on FB messaging, plus others by phone and email. And not just "I'm sorry" but real "I am truly sorry that I have hurt you so badly at a time when you have enough pain to deal with" (bereavement in my family). "You need love right now, and I wish I could give you that, but it's all twisted up now for you, because of my stupidity".

There's enough self-awareness there that he knows he is toxic, he knows he always ends up hurting people he cares about - but he can't think why it happens, why he does this.

I would just think he was an insecure guy with commitment problems, who had a load of stress in midwinter... .except that he fits 7 of the 9 diagnostic criteria listed elsewhere here for BPD; he was previously successfully treated for dysthymia, but considered it 'cured' seemingly unaware it re-emerges under stress and can evolve into cyclothymia, a form of bipolar disorder... .

... .and above all, because the mirroring was textbook... .the push-pull dance was textbook... .and those seem to be present in every single story I've read in here in the last few weeks.

"I found my soulmate... .he distanced himself, then we were closer than ever, but then he pushed me away again... .it was so perfect, then I could do nothing right and I didn't understand why... .then he came back and it was wonderful... .then he stopped replying to messages... .then he came back and said he loves me... .then he wouldn't answer my calls... ." etc., etc.

Mirroring and push-pull dance. Textbook.


But yeah, mine knows something's up.


My current fave line from him... .

"I'm... .not like other people... ."

TOO DAMN RIGHT YOU'RE NOT!

It isn't his fault. He is damaged. His childhood was hell, with some head trauma in early childhood too. (I met his mum, this is from her).

I love him still - I suspect I always will love him. But the only way I ever get into dialogue with him ever again is when his specialising-in-Cluster-B therapist asks me to attend sessions for discussion of his behaviour in our relationship as part of his assessment and ongoing treatment.

Since he isn't seeing any therapist and angrily claimed "I don't need advice from you!" when I suggested he should talk to someone further about dysthymia/ cyclothymia, I don't see that happening. Not til he's destroyed some more women's lives and sanity.

But I'm never entering dialogue with him directly again without that.

In bold.

Scary how similar... .

Mine said similar things too.

In bold/underlined.

Mine said... .

In her rare lucid moments... .

When she came back to me... .

Shortly afterwards... .

The same exact thing.

She knew.

That pains me.

Made no difference.

She left regardless.
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« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2013, 02:11:03 PM »

Excerpt
I also notice that I'm a born romantic and I think that's been a bit problematic for me in relationships. I love Disney cartoons on fairy-tales and "Beauty and the Beast" is my favorite. I saw myself as Belle... I loved reading (still do) and I wasn't happy in my small town either... felt like an outsider/more cultured than the other people. So I could relate to how Belle perceived the Beast to be just "misunderstood" as opposed to "a monster" (the townspeople called him a monster in the film!) And then at the end of the film, the Beast turns into a really hot guy who also happens to be kind and loving... the full package really. In the film, there's scenes on how Belle teaches the Beast table manners instead of slobbering his food all over the place in an animal like manner. I know it's only a film but oh my god, it really spoke to me because I was there, busy fixing people... thinking that I could reform someone and mold them into what I wanted them to be. Belle was also fiercely loyal to anyone she loved in the film-first of all, it was her father, then she became loyal to the beast and defended him against the townspeople. I'm so like that too-if someone criticizes someone I love, I automatically get overprotective and think "leave my poor __ (insert name) alone!" Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

I'm thinking about that film now and realizing that you could say "the Beast" could be a metaphor for a horrible guy-that Belle is this innocent, sheltered girl living with her dad and she's basically clueless about what life is really like. And then Belle meets this charming guy who has a big mansion of a place and she thinks "wow isn't this cool?" without realizing that there's strings attached to it... .that the guy wants to keep her in the castle and is just using her to break his stupid spell... that it's not about her at all but rather his own ulterior motives!

The monster was misunderstood and in the beginning, I didn't help matters not knowing about BPD. They never forget a single error of yours, while theirs are forgotten 5 minutes later. They will verbally beat you with it till the ends of the earth.
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2013, 02:18:07 PM »

Me.

Powering up my Ironman suit.

Most systems on it are still offline/damaged.

But i will help you detect them.

Their presence amongst nons... .

Is catastrophic.

Oh God, this is going to really help me, you know that? This is exactly how my ex-bf used to talk, that he was IM and would always help me, always save me... .after I sent the Sept 1st email saying I would no longer reply, he sent messages saying, "Jesus, please just tell me you're alive. Tell me you're ok. Otherwise I'll have to power up the suit and fly up to save you"!

It was so... .special... .it was just between the two of us... .please, please keep powering up YOUR Iron Man suit, because it really is gonna help me to recognise that there are other guys in the world who can play at being Stark without genuinely believing they can behave like he does at the start of the tirlogy! Smiling (click to insert in post)

My last angry email to him before blocking as much as I could: included the line "you're stuck in the first half-hour of the first film, you immature idiot".

Can't think why he got so angry... .

I am sorry your ex... .

Portrayed himself as Ironman... .

A superhero... .

But his portrayal of this... .

Was a projection... .

Of what he wanted you to believe... .

Because his awareness... .

Of his disorder... .

Would reveal... .

That he is the villain... .

And the disorder... .

Will not allow that reflection... .

To be shown.

I am the non version of Ironman... .

Even been told i look like the actor who plays him(Robert Downey Jr)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Smiling (click to insert in post)

My Ironman suit... .

Is how i envision my boundaries... .

To protect me.

It hasnt done a good job... .

Now i am fully aware of that.
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eyvindr
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« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2013, 02:20:46 PM »

Escaped --

Just started reading some of posts last night -- I'm glad you found bpdfamily, and more glad that you're sharing with us your experiences and insights.

Two things --

1. Your posts include some of the most insightful observations and inflections I've read here -- thank you and welcome, again. (I loved the stuff about addiction and levels of brain chems -- good stuff.)

2. Your ex must be my ex's male alter ego. Or they took the same class. Truly eerie. This, for example --

Oh mine knows something's wrong with him... .

From the start, he's had very occasional moments when he's felt really low, described himself as feeling empty and like he isn't there, and in those times he's said things like "I'm no good for you - I would always end up hurting you" - I ask why, he says, "I don't know! I don't know! It's just... .how i am... ."

"I wish I wasn't like this... .I'm so, so sorry. I wish I didn't do stupid stuff and hurt people"

"You deserve better - you need someone more stable, less erratic, less stupid and immature and arrogant and stupid - you need someone less me... ."

My ex, like clockwork, following peak periods of dysregulation, after we made up, would say things like "How do you keep forgiving me?", "What if you leave me?" (me: why?) "Because I always mess everything up." (me: just don't mess everything up, then), "I'd understand if you wanted to leave me -- you didn't sign up for all this."

There's enough self-awareness there that he knows he is toxic, he knows he always ends up hurting people he cares about - but he can't think why it happens, why he does this.

I would just think he was an insecure guy with commitment problems, who had a load of stress in midwinter... .except that he fits 7 of the 9 diagnostic criteria listed elsewhere here for BPD; he was previously successfully treated for dysthymia, but considered it 'cured' seemingly unaware it re-emerges under stress and can evolve into cyclothymia, a form of bipolar disorder... .

I may not be able to stop myself from PMing you a copy of an apology she sent me during this last break-up, while she was still in the say-anything-to-prevent-abandonment phase. (She's now in full-on painting-me-bad mode.) You will swear your ex wrote it to me. In it, she methodiclaly apologizes for EVERYTHING I tried to get her to accept were things that were undermining our r-ship while we were together. Ev-ery-thing.

My current fave line from him... .

"I'm... .not like other people... ."

At the moment, mine from her, used repeatedly during the break-up stream of electronic vitriol: "THE REASON WE'RE APART HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME!" (her caps) All the while RAGING at me about how I refuse to take any responsibility for my role in our issues.

I love him still - I suspect I always will love him. But the only way I ever get into dialogue with him ever again is when his specialising-in-Cluster-B therapist asks me to attend sessions for discussion of his behaviour in our relationship as part of his assessment and ongoing treatment.

Since he isn't seeing any therapist and angrily claimed "I don't need advice from you!" when I suggested he should talk to someone further about dysthymia/ cyclothymia, I don't see that happening. Not til he's destroyed some more women's lives and sanity.

But I'm never entering dialogue with him directly again without that.

The same. Exactly. I have accepted and committee to no further contact of any type with her. The only way I'd even speak with her at this point would be if what you describe were to happen -- if I were invited by the professional to join in the clinical setting. Which we all know won't EVER happen.

Hang in there. Keep posting.
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