ER visit/hospital stay

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi everyone.

I'm not exactly sure how to put all of this so I am just going to say it and bring you all up to date for those who are kind enough to read my posts and respond.

As you may recall, Friday was proving to be particularly tough for me ... . it was a combination of things but I was still reeling from the comment made on Thursday by my ex about him not finding me physically attractive ... . it still hurts to even write that down.

I was ready to move on Friday - packed - and I was waiting for the ex to return as he had said he was going to grab me some cigarettes while he was out ... hours and hours went by and I was getting more and more distressed about everything ... I had touched base with my T the night before as I could feel myself slipping but really, what happened was all but inevitable ... I knew it was coming.

I walked to the store and bought a bottle of vodka and a packet of razor blades. I got thoroughly drunk and slit open my inner thigh ... it took a few turns and a few more shots but I managed to get pretty deep ... I was very much trying to end things.

I remember the ex coming outside where I was and asking why I was covered in blood, I have no idea what we talked about after that but he left and I remember taking my dog and trying to get to the park on our front yard so I could be alone and finish off what I needed to.

Apparently after that I was pretty out of it and the ex and the girl who lives down the back called an ambulance - which arrived with 4 police cars ... I woke up at the hospital and the police had sectioned me because I needed 12 or so stitches and it was a deep cut.

I have been stuck there for 2 days trying to convince them to let me go ... I was completely strung out Friday night so it has taken a bit of convincing for them to let me out.

When I got back home (the old place) the ex had tidied up my room and packed this computer etc into his room ... he came outside and apart from telling me how worried he was he asked if this had been "for his benefit". When I asked him exactly what he meant by that (and that no, it wasn't for anyone's 'benefit' he said he had to know if it had been due to him or if it was everything else that has been going on. I told him that I didn't know what to say, and was happy to respond any way he wanted me to.

There was a bit more than that but after talking for about half an hour, we packed my bags into the car that was taking me and I left.

He and I hugged, he told me that he wants to keep in touch but that it is entirely up to me.

On the way here the BF of the girl who was driving me called and said that he and the ex had found a house for the 4 of us and they were going to go and look at it today.

I cried the whole way here and really, am in no condition to be home at all ... but I needed to get back to my dog as I knew she would be stressing ... this has all been building since NYE really, I think his trip away was almost the last straw and, as I posted, the comment was the final nail.

No hope left, no pride left, I am out of any of it.

I am struggling to find a way through today but, I have no razors or alcohol (the ex confiscated it all) so ... I don't think anything will happen. I can't tell anybody how I feel because they will just lock me up again ...

I'm sorry for the brutal honesty but I can't say these things aloud.

[damage control]

Hi everyone.

I'm not exactly sure how to put all of this so I am just going to say it and bring you all up to date for those who are kind enough to read my posts and respond.

As you may recall, Friday was proving to be particularly tough for me ... . it was a combination of things but I was still reeling from the comment made on Thursday by my ex about him not finding me physically attractive ... . it still hurts to even write that down.

I was ready to move on Friday - packed - and I was waiting for the ex to return as he had said he was going to grab me some cigarettes while he was out ... hours and hours went by and I was getting more and more distressed about everything ... I had touched base with my T the night before as I could feel myself slipping but really, what happened was all but inevitable ... I knew it was coming.

I walked to the store and bought a bottle of vodka and a packet of razor blades. I got thoroughly drunk and slit open my inner thigh ... it took a few turns and a few more shots but I managed to get pretty deep ... I was very much trying to end things.

I remember the ex coming outside where I was and asking why I was covered in blood, I have no idea what we talked about after that but he left and I remember taking my dog and trying to get to the park on our front yard so I could be alone and finish off what I needed to.

Apparently after that I was pretty out of it and the ex and the girl who lives down the back called an ambulance - which arrived with 4 police cars ... I woke up at the hospital and the police had sectioned me because I needed 12 or so stitches and it was a deep cut.

I have been stuck there for 2 days trying to convince them to let me go ... I was completely strung out Friday night so it has taken a bit of convincing for them to let me out.

When I got back home (the old place) the ex had tidied up my room and packed this computer etc into his room ... he came outside and apart from telling me how worried he was he asked if this had been "for his benefit". When I asked him exactly what he meant by that (and that no, it wasn't for anyone's 'benefit' he said he had to know if it had been due to him or if it was everything else that has been going on. I told him that I didn't know what to say, and was happy to respond any way he wanted me to.

There was a bit more than that but after talking for about half an hour, we packed my bags into the car that was taking me and I left.

He and I hugged, he told me that he wants to keep in touch but that it is entirely up to me.

On the way here the BF of the girl who was driving me called and said that he and the ex had found a house for the 4 of us and they were going to go and look at it today.

I cried the whole way here and really, am in no condition to be home at all ... but I needed to get back to my dog as I knew she would be stressing ... this has all been building since NYE really, I think his trip away was almost the last straw and, as I posted, the comment was the final nail.

No hope left, no pride left, I am out of any of it.

I am struggling to find a way through today but, I have no razors or alcohol (the ex confiscated it all) so ... I don't think anything will happen. I can't tell anybody how I feel because they will just lock me up again ...

I'm sorry for the brutal honesty but I can't say these things aloud.

[arn131arn]

I was there in September DC. After 6 months of the silent treatment I was about to do the same thing. My instinct told me not to, the thought of my son, the same. That same instinct that told me to not marry her, to not give her the engagement ring back, that same instinct to not put her name on the house... . that instinct that has saved my life over and over again

[patientandclear]

DC, I so wish these were real-life hugs.   

It sounds like it would be good for you not to be alone and actually to have some people taking care of you for a change.  I'm not familiar with the mental health treatment situation in Australia but can you seek voluntary admission where you just were, unless you found it to be a bad place? Or some other in patient facility?

Can your pup go to a kennel for a day or so to make that possible?  Might there be a social worker associated with the treatment place who could help with that?

Could I suggest just calling a social worker associated with that facility to talk through options and ask what help is available so you don't find yourself being involuntarily admitted again?

I'm in the US but do some work with involuntary commitment cases and in our jurisdiction, someone at risk of suicide but seeking voluntary admission would definitely be admitted voluntarily, not "committed," meaning you could leave when you want and need to.

I can't believe the ex left you there for hours waiting for him to return on that day and in those circumstances.  And I am astounded at his comment "was this for my benefit."  As though of all the issues, the most important is that HE not be made to feel bad, and that you not have attempted to make him feel bad.

This stuff -- being set aside by someone who'd convinced you he saw into your soul and loved it -- is just devastating.  It shouldn't be minimized how much damage it does.  I'd never before in my life questioned the point of my existence and I did after my ex left and left and left in all the ways he left.

More   .  Please keep letting us know how you are.

[Waifed]

I am so sorry to here this DC. Please keep in mind that you have many people here that care very much about your well being. Depression is very debilitating but it will get better. Always remember that. Don't give up on us!

[fromheeltoheal]

Hmmm.  Wondered what was up with you, we hadn't heard in a couple days.  Last we heard he had hurt you again with his comment, but things were looking up because you had found a place to live and were moving; I was hoping that everything went well and you hadn't gotten a new internet connection yet, so no updates.  Nope.  You went entirely the other way.  Very concerning that you got suicidal, but also an opportunity.  What were you thinking before you bought the booze and the blades?  What can you do better next time to handle your emotions differently?  Obviously this guy has his hooks in you deep, honestly I don't know how you've lived in the same house with him through all this, I could never do that, but clearly you need to get away.  Of course he's going to be concerned now because you shocked him, but you know by now that is temporary and it's back to the same-old when you get your feet on the ground a little.  There are deeper issues than just him though, methinks, and it's a good thing you're talking to a shrink.  Take care of you and keep us posted.

[isseeu]

DC... .

Please know that there is a community of people out here who care about you more than you can imagine.  I wish we could show you our faces-you would see so much love and concern.  Without sounding trite... . I also wish we could all throw our collective arms around you-can you try to imagine that?   Is there a social worker-type of person you can talk with about options?  If you can really think about the words your ex spoke and imagine him saying them to himself... . that is more the truth.  Your situation would feel devastating to anyone... . so very very hard.  Stay with us... .    

[Findingmysong723]

damage control,

What happened to you is very scary and upsetting, but you are getting the help you need to deal with those unbelievable hard emotions and that is a good thing! I don't know what to say in situations like this a lot of the time, but I'm happy you're going to be okay!

[damage control]

arn, waifed, P+C, heel, isseu & FMS

Thank you all for the very kind and supportive words - they truly do mean a lot.

I am not depressed ... well ... I am but not in the clinical sense. I am just  not able to deal with this constant pain any more. I got by for about a week telling myself it would get better/pass.

It hasn't and it isn't going to. It's not just about him, it's a recognition that I simply do not belong here, don't belong to anybody and that has been and always will be the case. I have no interest in letting go and/or moving on because there is nothing to move on to ... . nothing I desire anyhow.

Life is not for existing, it is for living ... but that is impossible for me it  would seem. Work, friends, travel, meals out, houses, cars ... none of that means a damn thing ... it never has. I have honestly tried these past 2 months to find solace and meaning outside of him but there just isn't anything ... . if I can be so duped and betrayed so easily ... then who I am makes no sense whatsoever.

Thanks again.

[isseeu]

DC... . keep talking to us.  We're listening.

[damage control]

isseu + santa

thanks for still being around.

I am not sure what to say any more. I have vented and vented and vented here but the poison has just taken hold ... I can't seem to get it out with words.

santa - I know I am not the first, nor the last person to be betrayed - this place pays testament to that fact. I am not being vain or imagining for one moment that I am the only person in pain ...

[fromheeltoheal]

Where are you Damage? If you're still in that house with him, getting out needs to be priority one; all the rest comes later.

[GreenMango]

DC

I'm so sorry to hear this relationship-break up is this bad.  What he said before was brutal.

Did you get a chance to talk with a doctor or therapist while you were in the hospital?  Talking to someone and getting some face to face support might be something to help during the hard parts.

Are you planning on moving into that house?

[damage control]

Heel + mango

I have moved - got to the new place about 2-3 hours ago.

I didn't really talk to the psychs in the hospital - you may have had some exp in psych wards (especially the emergency lockdown ones) and if you have, you will know that they are not really looking to be your therapist - they are simply assessing whether or not to keep you in lockdown, admit you to a general ward or let you go ... my only aim was to get out and they kept carrying on about the size and depth of my cut so I had to play everything else down to get out ... especially as I had been pretty out of control on the night of admission ...

[fromheeltoheal]

Good news then. The next step is to not communicate with your ex at all; you've got a lot going on and you need some stability without the mindfck he provides. New digs, your dog, these boards, your shrink, time to mellow out and watch life get better.

[Matt]

Hi DC.  I saw your posts and wanted to know what's next for you, and especially whether there's anybody around in RL ("real life" you can talk with now.

I get what you said about how it is when you're in an emergency lockdown situation.  My son went through that a few years ago - a couple of times actually.  Once he was going through a lot - he had been treated very badly as a child, and had been drinking and on drugs since he was 12, and by his mid-20s his life was really melting down, and he tried to hurt himself kind of like you did, but wrists.  The second time was even worse - he planned it and carried it out with prescription meds - he was in jail and waiting to be sentenced for some very serious stuff - stuff he had not done but he had made big mistakes and dug himself a deep hole.  When he found out he would go to prison, he took all the meds he had saved up.  Somebody noticed he was passed out, and they pumped his stomach, and then lockdown for a couple of days.  I only found out about it all a couple days later.

He told me about what it's like - they had him alone in a room with no clothes or blankets, and a big window so they could watch him - very cold and alone and humiliated and scared.  I came to see him and I was shocked - he was hardly there - couldn't have a real conversation.  Just floored me.  I went outside to my car and just cried - I'm a middle-aged guy - in the middle of the night, in the parking lot of the jail, just so scared for him.

That was 2009.  He's still in prison but will get out in about a year and a half.  I see him pretty often and take my younger kids to see him too.  He's doing very well - clean and sober - taking care of himself physically and mentally.  I wish he had access to counseling of some sort - he has to basically do that for himself by reading.  He believes that his life was saved for a purpose - I'm not a religious guy but maybe he's right about that.  He has become a very good person - honest and respectful - loves his family and does his best to help.  Sometimes my other kids write to him about their problems - sometimes they tell him stuff they don't tell me - and he writes back and helps them - much closer to us all now than before.

I wish I knew what makes it possible for someone to sink so low and then climb high.  I didn't know he had that strength - maybe he didn't - maybe he got strong by going through what he did.  He got some good counseling before he went to prison and I know he learned stuff that is still helping him.

And I'm sure that support from family, friends and peers (like here!) are a big part of it.  Sometimes you get help from places you didn't expect to.  Like when I went to Al-Anon (for people who have an alcoholic in their family) - you can quickly meet people who will give you a lot of support.

That's why I'm wondering what's next for you - whether there's anybody you can talk to right now - family, friends, church, or whoever might help you work through this difficult time.  Two heads are a lot better than one, and we're hear to talk with you, and maybe somebody in RL can help too.

Best wishes,

Matt

[waverider]

Hi DC

Totally understand about CAT responses in ER (I'm in Aus too) My partner has been admitted maybe 15-20 times in the last year with OD's. All they want to know is if you are going to kill yourself today, then out the door. What happens days later is no concern.

To get yourself out of this mode, and it is a slow progress, it helps if you surround yourself with people who are not in the situation in order to create an environment of normality. It will take time but it is the only way to refocus on other things.

This is but one chapter in your life. There are many more to go, most better and maybe some not much better. But you wont know unless you stick around to live it.

Do not let feeling like a failure overwhelm you, we all feel like our world has fallen apart at some time in our lives. Now is not forever, no matter how dark it feels today.

You are not a bad person, your fortunes are just not all in alignment at the moment. You are here reaching out to others for help. That is a very positive thing to do. It is a good step. You may feel like it is a small one, but believe me it is not. It is hard to be brutally honest about these things, but is a sign of the courage you have within you to face your problems head on.

Just to emphasize that, you are not a bad person or a lost cause. You are simply a little lost at the moment

[musicfan42]

Hi Damage Control,

I understand that you're feeling intense emotions right now-that they're just so overwhelming.

I think it's essential that you keep yourself safe. Can you do a safety plan with your therapist? A safety plan is where you plan in advance how you are going to handle suicidal thoughts and self-harm urges and try to prevent it through a range of strategies such as calling a helpline number, calling emergency services, distraction etc.  It's important that you do the safety plan out with a trained professional. It's hard to follow the safety plan when you're in crisis without the assistance of a professional. Professional support is key.

Here's a crisis helpline number for Australia: www.befrienders.org/directory?country=AU

If you feel distressed in any way, please call that number.

DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy) has been clinically shown to reduce self-harm and suicide attempts so I think it's an option worth pursuing. Are there DBT groups in your area that you can access? I've read that it's hard for service users to utilize the DBT skills while in crisis which is why people in DBT are provided with ongoing professional support in the form of skills training sessions, weekly individual therapy and a phone service.

[Learning_curve74]

Oh dc, I wish we could give you real hugs... .  

The pain of feeling like you don't have any reason and feeling like you don't have any hope is extreme -- I know because I've been there too. I don't think there's anything anybody can say that can magically make you feel better. From my own personal experience years ago when I was about to commit suicide, I called the suicide hotline and nothing the person on the other end made any sense or difference to me. I just hung up and wondered why are other people are happy and thriving and not me? I was a person just like everybody else, so what made everybody else so darn special? Instead of ending it all, I decided to try taking it day to day to see if I could ever figure it out. Maybe sometimes we have to go through a period where we just exist and struggle with the pain in order to eventually get to a point of living and thriving.

dc, please remember also that we are here for you and listening. That you are here writing to us means you are taking postive steps.  

[Matt]

Oh dc, I wish we could give you real hugs... .  

The pain of feeling like you don't have any reason and feeling like you don't have any hope is extreme -- I know because I've been there too. I don't think there's anything anybody can say that can magically make you feel better. From my own personal experience years ago when I was about to commit suicide, I called the suicide hotline and nothing the person on the other end made any sense or difference to me. I just hung up and wondered why are other people are happy and thriving and not me? I was a person just like everybody else, so what made everybody else so darn special? Instead of ending it all, I decided to try taking it day to day to see if I could ever figure it out. Maybe sometimes we have to go through a period where we just exist and struggle with the pain in order to eventually get to a point of living and thriving.

dc, please remember also that we are here for you and listening. That you are here writing to us means you are taking postive steps.  

LC, was it helpful to call the hotline anyway - even though they couldn't fix everything, and you weren't really ready to hear everything they had to say - did it still help to have somebody you could talk to right then?

[waverider]

My partner regular calls Lifeline Australia on 13 11 14 when she starts feeling like this.

[Learning_curve74]

Hey Matt, the answer is YES, calling the suicide hotline  was actually the catalyst. If I hadn't had somebody to speak to at that moment, I probably wouldn't be here today. I have no idea who that person was but in a way they saved my life.

dc, please do call your local crisis hotline if you feel like you can't go on. They are ready to listen without judgement. Sometimes it helps to just hear an empathetic voice.

[damage control]

Thank you to everyone for your kindness and support.

@Heel ... . yes ... I know, NC. He is trying to be such a good 'friend' and has been since he dumped me that it feels like giving up the only person I have right now, not just the man I love. But he won't contact me for a little while now I don't think ... he was really thrown by what happened but (of course) he has made it all about him ... I am also a bit put out by him going through my things and calling my oldest son. I have things I would never have wanted him to see ... I don't know if he even looked through my computer ... so, right now, I think perhaps what happened may give me time and space while 'he recovers'.

@matt

Thanks for sharing your story. I am so sorry about what happened to your son ... it's very hard for those who are close to watch and feel as someone they care for self-destructs. I get that, I really do and it's where the selfish aspect of it kicks in ... it is selfish, but 'save yourself' has different meaning/s for some of us.

I am glad he is doing better and I sincerely hope that he continues to do so. I have always struggled with SI, every day it crosses my mind at some point ... I have made a few serious attempts but nothing for about 11 years ... I thought that even though I still had these dark thoughts, that I could manage them - significantly better than I used to anyway ... but, it appears that I was wrong. I hope it is better for your son.

I don't really have anybody to talk to - hotlines are useless and even though they gave me support numbers to call, I know from experience that if I call one of those they will send an ambulance for me and put me in lockdown again ... I am not going to let that happen.

I do however have this place and all of the wonderful people here. You have no idea how grateful for that I am.

@Waverider

Thanks for your support. I know that things are particularly bad ATM but to be honest and realistic, they have never ever been good - I am not being dramatic ... they just never have been. Yes, they are way out of alignment ... but I have never been aligned and never been OK. The best I can really hope for is to 'get by'. And really. Is all of this pain and suffering worth 'getting by' for? I am unconvinced.

@MusicFan

Thanks for the info. I am reluctant to be completely honest with my T (I did tell her on Thursday night - the night before this happened) that I was seeing flashing rivers of blood ... I should have known where I was headed but I ignored it, or let it happen, not sure which) because she also has a duty of care and I am not going back to that ward ... . there is no point.

@L_C

Thank you

THe hotlines are indeed a joke ... they are just volunteers and really cannot answer effectively those existential questions that bring us to these places - how can they, we can't answer for ourselves.

The thing is ... I don't really want any help ... well, I don't believe that anybody can help. It's not really possible to be talked out of your feelings or else, it would have happened by now ... this feels very calculated to me ... I am looking at my options realistically and realising that bar the guilt of leaving behind family (and my dog), I think I am making a sane decision against an insane world.

[damage control]

L_C

The psych nurses at the hospital talked and talked and talked with me - everyone kept getting me to go over and over what had happened on the day that it ended in blood ... but empathy only gets you so far right? ... . I mean, in the end, they can't hose out your brain or fix what is wrong ... again, it sounds so dramatic when I write it down but I am not being dramatic. Or, at least not trying to be.

[santa]

L_C

The psych nurses at the hospital talked and talked and talked with me - everyone kept getting me to go over and over what had happened on the day that it ended in blood ... but empathy only gets you so far right? ... . I mean, in the end, they can't hose out your brain or fix what is wrong ... again, it sounds so dramatic when I write it down but I am not being dramatic. Or, at least not trying to be.

I don't have a lot of suicide knowledge, but it seems to me that if you really wanted to kill yourself, you'd just jump into an airplane propeller or jump off the top of a tall building. Those things are guaranteed to kill you. The fact that you did what you did tells me that you want to live. It was definitely dramatic and a cry for help, but nevertheless, you don't really want to die.

You can't expect to hear some magic words that will instantly make you feel better. What you've got to do is just accept that you want to live and go from there. Getting yourself all worked up by focusing on whether or not you want to live is pointless. You want to live. You just want to live better and you need to figure out how to do it.

[Matt]

L_C

The psych nurses at the hospital talked and talked and talked with me - everyone kept getting me to go over and over what had happened on the day that it ended in blood ... but empathy only gets you so far right? ... . I mean, in the end, they can't hose out your brain or fix what is wrong ... again, it sounds so dramatic when I write it down but I am not being dramatic. Or, at least not trying to be.

I don't have a lot of suicide knowledge, but it seems to me that if you really wanted to kill yourself, you'd just jump into an airplane propeller or jump off the top of a tall building. Those things are guaranteed to kill you. The fact that you did what you did tells me that you want to live. It was definitely dramatic and a cry for help, but nevertheless, you don't really want to die.

You can't expect to hear some magic words that will instantly make you feel better. What you've got to do is just accept that you want to live and go from there. Getting yourself all worked up by focusing on whether or not you want to live is pointless. You want to live. You just want to live better and you need to figure out how to do it.

This is pretty darn profound!

I'm not sure either, but I think maybe when someone is struggling, and not finding a good path forward, they may consider every option, not because it's what you want to do, but because - as Santa says - you just don't see the path forward - "You want to live better and you need to figure out how to do it."

I went through extreme depression, when my son went to prison, and my marriage ended - married 10 years, 4 kids, and my wife became violent and I just couldn't deal with it any more.  All that happened right after my parents died - a lot going on at once.  I spiraled downward fast - never considered hurting myself but I did find myself just unable to cope.  And when I was that depressed, it was very hard to make good decisions - hard to find options and hard to do anything positive - so you spiral down more.

I had a good counselor, and that made all the difference, but it was still a long, hard road.  After a while I could see my path forward, kind of.  One day at a time... .

[Matt]

One more thing DC - I forgot to ask - what kind of dog?  (Mine was a mutt - part black lab but smaller.)

[waverider]

My partner once described to me that she had fallen overboard from the ship of life in the middle of a fog. She felt like no one could see her, and so no one could help.  As she was surrounded by fog she could not see which way to go so there was no point trying to swim anywhere, everything felt so totally pointless and alone that she felt like putting her head under just to get it over with.

Just talking to people if they cant understand fully just reassures you that there is help out there, all is not lost, all you need do is tread water until the fog lifts.

Does it ever feel like that to you?

Now is not forever. The past only repeats itself if we don't try to change it.

[damage control]

L_C

The psych nurses at the hospital talked and talked and talked with me - everyone kept getting me to go over and over what had happened on the day that it ended in blood ... but empathy only gets you so far right? ... . I mean, in the end, they can't hose out your brain or fix what is wrong ... again, it sounds so dramatic when I write it down but I am not being dramatic. Or, at least not trying to be.

I don't have a lot of suicide knowledge, but it seems to me that if you really wanted to kill yourself, you'd just jump into an airplane propeller or jump off the top of a tall building. Those things are guaranteed to kill you. The fact that you did what you did tells me that you want to live. It was definitely dramatic and a cry for help, but nevertheless, you don't really want to die.

You can't expect to hear some magic words that will instantly make you feel better. What you've got to do is just accept that you want to live and go from there. Getting yourself all worked up by focusing on whether or not you want to live is pointless. You want to live. You just want to live better and you need to figure out how to do it.

Hey Santa

I can appreciate your perspective and because you give it, I am going to assume that you have been there to.

I am not going to defend or justify what I do or don't want or point out that finding an aeroplane propeller is easier said than done. I also don't expect any magic words - that was kinda my point in fact.

What I will say - and emphatically so - is that it was not a cry for help. In fact, I think many times when people tell themselves that someone is just 'crying for help' it's because they themselves cannot fathom being in that place/space and/or find it comforting to tell themselves that story over the other possibility/ies.

[damage control]

L_C

The psych nurses at the hospital talked and talked and talked with me - everyone kept getting me to go over and over what had happened on the day that it ended in blood ... but empathy only gets you so far right? ... . I mean, in the end, they can't hose out your brain or fix what is wrong ... again, it sounds so dramatic when I write it down but I am not being dramatic. Or, at least not trying to be.

I don't have a lot of suicide knowledge, but it seems to me that if you really wanted to kill yourself, you'd just jump into an airplane propeller or jump off the top of a tall building. Those things are guaranteed to kill you. The fact that you did what you did tells me that you want to live. It was definitely dramatic and a cry for help, but nevertheless, you don't really want to die.

You can't expect to hear some magic words that will instantly make you feel better. What you've got to do is just accept that you want to live and go from there. Getting yourself all worked up by focusing on whether or not you want to live is pointless. You want to live. You just want to live better and you need to figure out how to do it.

This is pretty darn profound!

I'm not sure either, but I think maybe when someone is struggling, and not finding a good path forward, they may consider every option, not because it's what you want to do, but because - as Santa says - you just don't see the path forward - "You want to live better and you need to figure out how to do it."

I went through extreme depression, when my son went to prison, and my marriage ended - married 10 years, 4 kids, and my wife became violent and I just couldn't deal with it any more.  All that happened right after my parents died - a lot going on at once.  I spiraled downward fast - never considered hurting myself but I did find myself just unable to cope.  And when I was that depressed, it was very hard to make good decisions - hard to find options and hard to do anything positive - so you spiral down more.

I had a good counselor, and that made all the difference, but it was still a long, hard road.  After a while I could see my path forward, kind of.  One day at a time... .

Oh I am definitely spiralling, I am not going to deny that ... but the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is just a little too much to swallow right now ... .   I don't mean any disrespect to anything that you have written here ... for most people depression (if you like) is a situational thing - a one-off that 'happened' to them, usually due to circumstances ... . what about those of us who are always on the outside looking in at all times? ... . what if you did get to the point of hurting yourself and you struggled with that every single day? If you had to fight that urge on a constant basis?

I don't want to be reactionary or seem resistant or anything of that nature ... . I know that everybody here has been hurt and/or is hurting ...

[damage control]

One more thing DC - I forgot to ask - what kind of dog?  (Mine was a mutt - part black lab but smaller.)

Labs are lovely!

I have a sheltie (a shetland sheepdog) ... they are the ones that look like Lassie, only smaller (and she looks just like Lassie)

[damage control]

My partner once described to me that she had fallen overboard from the ship of life in the middle of a fog. She felt like no one could see her, and so no one could help.  As she was surrounded by fog she could not see which way to go so there was no point trying to swim anywhere, everything felt so totally pointless and alone that she felt like putting her head under just to get it over with.

Just talking to people if they cant understand fully just reassures you that there is help out there, all is not lost, all you need do is tread water until the fog lifts.

Does it ever feel like that to you?

Now is not forever. The past only repeats itself if we don't try to change it.

It's an interesting analogy ... I don't feel a fog ... just lost ... in a different time/place/space than where everyone else seems to be and unable to get where they are or describe where I am ... everybody wants you to walk through to them but they don't seem to get that there really isn't a viable entry point anywhere because where they are makes very little sense.

[waverider]

Trapped on the outside of a bubble, disassociated with the rest of the world who's concepts of reality seem alien, and not relevant to you?

Completely alone even in a room full of friendly faces. which is even worse than being completely alone as it underscores your very difference?

Do you feel as though you don't deserve to be happy?

[RecycledNoMore]

Its ok damage, im so sorry you are going through such a sht time.

[DragoN]

   The guy is a complete dick.

It's an interesting analogy ... I don't feel a fog ... just lost ... in a different time/place/space than where everyone else seems to be and unable to get where they are or describe where I am ... everybody wants you to walk through to them but they don't seem to get that there really isn't a viable entry point anywhere because where they are makes very little sense.

Mentally, smash through it. It's a sticky clingy wall, and when you touch it , it drains the life out of you. So you back up and Ram through the fking thing.

Sounds like The Pit. Was there once many years ago. Not self harming, but surreal. Totally Fked up. Ram through it. It's a mental game. It's all in your head. You must win.

Ball up the pain, drive it inside, becomes part of the energy and you use that to blast through the wall. And it's the most amazing freaking sensation. Everything changes after. And you don't fall back. You can't. Just grey cloudy crap, but not that since then.

Reads insane. But... . works. Worked for me at any rate. It was him or me. You are going off the other side of the razor's edge. Never ever ever do you harm yourself. Be a little selfish here. You deserve that. 

[damage control]

Trapped on the outside of a bubble, disassociated with the rest of the world who's concepts of reality seem alien, and not relevant to you?

Completely alone even in a room full of friendly faces. which is even worse than being completely alone as it underscores your very difference?

Do you feel as though you don't deserve to be happy?

Exactly WR

I am often the centre of the circle with a load of people around me as well which can make it so much worse ... .

I don't know about deserve to be happy or not ... . I don't really see it in those terms ... I guess I don't understand what that means ... I felt happiness with my ex ... it was mixed in with anxiety and uncertainty and I struggled with my abandonment fears throughout but ... I think I did find it there with him for a while so I cannot say it's completely alien or anything, it's just transient and (it would appear) based upon something that was unstable at best ... I am sure you know exactly what I mean by that (as do we all).

[waverider]

Do you feel like a lifeline to your only hope has been betrayed?

[damage control]

Thanks for the post DragoN ... it means a lot ... everybody is being very supportive and I appreciate that so much.

I am doing OK tonight ... have eaten and my doggie is asleep next to me ... have had a few calls from new friends which was nice but I am getting very worried about work which is not helping - I am not on the roster and nobody has contacted me in over a week ... if I am out of a job then I am out of a house and out of my last vestige of hope/preservation I think ... but ... not going there ATM ...

I have things to do and say no matter what the what happens. So, tonight, I will write those emails.

[damage control]

Its ok damage, im so sorry you are going through such a sht time.

Thanks recycled

[damage control]

Do you feel like a lifeline to your only hope has been betrayed?

I guess you could say that ... I feel completely confused and betrayed yes ... I don't really understand why he wants so badly to keep me around when he so obviously doesn't want me ... for the most part he is very warm and sweet and generous ... but it's not enough and the hurtful things he comes out with and the going off to spend (sexual) time with my replacement/s are just too much to bear ... and I hate myself for not being able to be OK with the way things are - and most of all for still carrying this idea that this is all a huge mistake ... that this person who wanted me so very badly meant everything he said to me ... it wasn't contingent ... I KNOW that it is over and he has gone forever in that capacity but I just cannot accept it because if I do ... well that's just another level of pain waiting and I cannot take any more

[waverider]

Prior to meeting your partner did you have a strong sense of self identity?

What I am getting at here is whether how you feel now is wholly situational to your recent experience, or is it part of a residual feeling of despair and instabilty.

[damage control]

Prior to meeting your partner did you have a strong sense of self identity?

What I am getting at here is whether how you feel now is wholly situational to your recent experience, or is it part of a residual feeling of despair and instabilty.

No, it's not wholly situational, not at all.

[fromheeltoheal]

I guess you could say that ... I feel completely confused and betrayed yes ... I don't really understand why he wants so badly to keep me around when he so obviously doesn't want me ... for the most part he is very warm and sweet and generous ... but it's not enough and the hurtful things he comes out with and the going off to spend (sexual) time with my replacement/s are just too much to bear ... and I hate myself for not being able to be OK with the way things are - and most of all for still carrying this idea that this is all a huge mistake ... that this person who wanted me so very badly meant everything he said to me ... it wasn't contingent ... I KNOW that it is over and he has gone forever in that capacity but I just cannot accept it because if I do ... well that's just another level of pain waiting and I cannot take any more

My borderline ex wanted the same thing, a 'friendship' that had limits, stopped somewhere.  On some level she knew that getting too close triggered her, although she had no idea why, and she got the feeling there was a major disconnect there between what we each wanted, but she 'loved' me very much anyway, so how about trying for a deep friendship that was a friendship only?  All the good with none of the bad.  Can't blame her for trying, but I wanted more, and actually she could never give me what I wanted because the version of her that I loved was a fiction she started to create and I finished in my head.

Well OK, that's the way it is, bummer, it didn't work.  So I gotta go.  And then all the fallout from the abuse and disrespect showed up, much worse than I was aware of when I was in it, and it's taken twice as long as the relationship lasted to untangle all of that and move forward.  And there's no way I could have done it if i was still in contact with her, far too crazymaking for me.

So you got away Damage, good for you, and the good news is the hardest part is at the beginning.  One foot in front of the other... .

[peacebaby]

Hey DC,

You really need to get some help now. Find someone to take care of your dog and put yourself as first priority. Keep in touch with your therapist and take their advice. You don't need to believe it, bu fact is you will feel better later, there is more to live for.

And in regards to Xena--I had a huge depression after that show ended that lead to me getting involved with my xBPDso. Had my heart not been broken by the way that show ended, I might not have been vulnerable enough to fall in love with my X.

Do not underestimate the power of entertainment. DC--perhaps there are movies you could watch, things you could do to feel something other than what you're feeling.

You will make it through this.

[babyducks]

DC,

I have been where you are now.

I am sorry you are going through this experience.

Find a way to put one foot in front of the other.   To get through the day.   

Worry about everything else after...

'ducks

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey damage how's life away from him, relief?

[damage control]

Hey H2H

Life is the same today ... unpleasant and mostly unwanted. Sorry to say.

He called me last night and after chatting for a while he said something which makes me think he won't try to be in contact for a while ... . the fog of being near him has lifted, I am grateful for that at least ... but it has only been a day since I saw him and only hours since we spoke.

[Matt]

Hey H2H

Life is the same today ... unpleasant and mostly unwanted. Sorry to say.

He called me last night and after chatting for a while he said something which makes me think he won't try to be in contact for a while ... . the fog of being near him has lifted, I am grateful for that at least ... but it has only been a day since I saw him and only hours since we spoke.

How do you think it would be if you chose not to have any contact with him for a while?

[damage control]

I have no intention of contacting him Matt ... I am pretty good at not dialing/texting/etc ...

[Matt]

I have no intention of contacting him Matt ... I am pretty good at not dialing/texting/etc ...

What about if he tries to contact you?  Is it an option to let it go to voice mail, or not respond to his texts or e-mails?

(This step helped me a lot!)

[damage control]

It's a good question - and advice - Matt

I am not sure I can ignore calls/texts ... I can try. It may not come to that anyway ... not being in  the same house, the drama-rama that was this past weekend and his own eviction pending are all preying heavily upon him ... his preoccupation will be his own well-being in the short term and I'm not thinking beyond short term ATM.

[RecycledNoMore]

It's a good question - and advice - Matt

I am not sure I can ignore calls/texts ... I can try. It may not come to that anyway ... not being in  the same house, the drama-rama that was this past weekend and his own eviction pending are all preying heavily upon him ... his preoccupation will be his own well-being in the short term and I'm not thinking beyond short term ATM.

All you, all any of us can do is try.It is worth it, we are worth it

One day at a time.

[damage control]

I am doing hours right now recycled ... . but it's better than minutes ...

I think the question of his contact, or lack thereof becomes moot when I am just counting hours.

[Lady31]

Ok my sweet DC... . you have officially freaked me out.

This is extremely serious.  The fact that you are that distraught over that toxic relationship and are still open to any kind of contact with him is outright disturbing my love!

Here's my take - screw the new job, screw him, screw all that junk!  Time to go home (back where you left from) and surround yourself with your close friends and family - cut him out ENTIRELY to where he can't contact you if he tried - HEAL.  THEN, look at your future career path. 

I mean really - none of that stuff is worth the price you are paying.  I am sorry you feel so hopeless.  It sounds like your inner struggles are pretty profound as well - and that is ok.  What help have you sought in the past for your apathy and despair in life as it appears this has been on going?  Have you attempted suicide in the past?

I think you need to make a decision to drop it all and go home NOW - and don't give yourself time to think about it.  Please DC.  Listen to what I am saying.  I am so serious - if I was on your continent I would come kidnap you as I said before.  Seriously. 

It's time to make a move my love - and it is NOT checking out of here.  It's relocating from there.  You have to have support around you and you need good professional help that will help guide you out of this pit your in right now.

There will be no laying down... . CLIMB OUT. 

Sending my love -

Lady

[maxen]

hi DC. i'm so so sorry about your situation. i've faced the razor and i understand what you said above about the pain.

Time to go home (back where you left from) and surround yourself with your close friends and family

the sense of exclusion i felt from all human society when my stbxw announced her well-planned betrayal and bolted was total. i got professional help and apprised them all of my suicidality. what really saved me though was the company of friends and family. i have very few friends but they're all excellent, and my family are scattered all over the world but they're also excellent, and these opened their doors to me. i had to leave nyc for philadelphia and dublin to do this and it was both necessary and wonderful. i feel somwhat re-integrated to the world because of it.

i like Lady31's advice, DC. little could be more important right now than getting into the actual physical company of whoever you've got who will support you.  

[GreenMango]

Hi DC just wanted to check in and say I'm glad you are posting.  I'm not real familiar about how the system works in Australia just wondering if there was someone you can talk to face to face where you don't run the risk of having them force you into a ward.  That would be scary for anyone (the boards are great they do lack that real time quality).

You are so vulnerable right now and this man doesn't have the capacity for the kind of tenderness you need.  I do remember the part when I really needed to focus on myself and then Id get calls and texts from mine about his problems etc when I was really struggling myself.  The person really didnt have my best interests in mind.  Not contacting or replying was diffcult eventually I stopped.  I agree with Matt here there a point where no contact is really about getting your feet underneath you first and no contact can be really good to do that.

Maybe DC you can make the committment that of he calls or texts you wait at least a day to think about of you can even talk with this guy and to talk with someone else (therapist, friend, the boards) about what if anything you reply with.

He has too much power over your emotions right now and he's thoughtless about it.

DC hang in there.  Those hours turn to days to weeks.  It gets easier.  At first you think about this stuff 24 hours a day, then 24 turns to 20 to 10 and the next thing its once a day then maybe once a week a month and a year.  In the meantime take good care of you.



I found therapy to be really helpful.  During the bad times I was going frequently.  It took the edge off.  It helped to have someone explain what was happening.

Congratulations on your job btw!

[damage control]

@Lady31

Thanks for your concern and thoughts.

Going home is just not an option right now - not only do I not have the funds, I don't have anywhere to go or a job to go back to.

I wouldn't be surrounded by family/friends anyhow because there is a distinct lack of those 2 things in my life ...

I have done this twice before - but many years ago now - well over 10. It caught me by surprise in a way, in another, I think the pressure of everything and the emotional nightmare made it almost inevitable.

Thanks again.

@maxen

I am sorry to hear that you have also gone through something like this. It's not easy and it takes a hell of a lot before the actual razor comes into play - not just the fantasy of the razor. I am sorry that you went through that.

I honestly don't have anybody for physical comfort. I don't have LT friends and only my sons for family and I would just never feel comfortable turning to them for this kind of need ... they are still too young for that (early 20's) and I don't think that children should support their parents in that way, or even if they are equipped to.

Thanks for sharing.

@GM

Thank you also for your concern and input.

I don't think think there is a face-to-face person that I would trust not to take my thoughts/words and then enforce DOC to have me put back in hospital ... they HAVE to do this, it's not personal on either side.

You are right about the ex, he doesn't have the capacity to help me or even be beneficial to me. He may worry/care or think he worries/cares but the first words out of his mouth when I got back home on Sunday were to ask me to tell him if this was all 'for his benefit' and that ... . lacks empathy.

I just feel that he has been spooked enough that he won't want contact anyhow. He will not be able to deal with the idea that he had any part in what happened and in order to reassure himself, not contacting me will keep that self-narrative more secure. That's what I foresee. He is on his dating website for hours and hours every day at the moment and he goes back to work in a day or so and he still needs to find somewhere to live - all of which will occupy him and keep him focused upon him - which is the only place/space he is truly comfortable in.

I have been down this road before and attempted suicide tends to scare away everyone except the professionals and the very nearest and dearest. I have very little doubt that he has all-but gone.

Thanks for the congratulations but my lovely shiny new job may well be in jeopardy. I have still not been rostered on and get the feeling that even though I advised them for the 2 weeks that I could not work, they have begun to think that I am unreliable - probably rightly so. I am currently in my 3rd week without wages and have no idea how to fix this - or if I even can.

[ucmeicu2]

I have done this twice before - but many years ago now - well over 10. It caught me by surprise in a way, in another, I think the pressure of everything and the emotional nightmare made it almost inevitable.  <cut> It's not easy and it takes a hell of a lot before the actual razor comes into play - not just the fantasy of the razor.

I honestly don't have anybody for physical comfort. I don't have LT friends and only my sons for family and I would just never feel comfortable turning to them for this kind of need ... they are still too young for that (early 20's) and I don't think that children should support their parents in that way, or even if they are equipped to.  <cut>

I don't think think there is a face-to-face person that I would trust not to take my thoughts/words and then enforce DOC to have me put back in hospital ... they HAVE to do this, it's not personal on either side.

He is on his dating website for hours and hours every day at the moment and he goes back to work in a day or so and he still needs to find somewhere to live - all of which will occupy him and keep him focused upon him - which is the only place/space he is truly comfortable in.

I have been down this road before and attempted suicide tends to scare away everyone except the professionals and the very nearest and dearest. I have very little doubt that he has all-but gone.

Thanks for the congratulations but my lovely shiny new job may well be in jeopardy. I have still not been rostered on and get the feeling that even though I advised them for the 2 weeks that I could not work, they have begun to think that I am unreliable - probably rightly so. I am currently in my 3rd week without wages and have no idea how to fix this - or if I even can.

DC this is all so disturbing to read.  you have no job, no wages, no RL friends to turn to; you attempted suicide a couple days ago and you're still suicidal; you're withholding information and  lying to the drs/medical professionals about how severely depressed and suicidal you are.  the only ones you're being honest with is us ~ you come here and post all of this but what can we do? very little compared to the hospital!  there's a reason they are legally obligated to hospitalize you ~ suicidal people should be closely supervised under lock and key so they don't hurt themselves... . thats the whole point!

clearly this whole thing tugs on the heartstrings of several people here ~ myself included, as my mother tried to kill herself twice and i found her both times.  both times!  oh and my xBPDgf?  she did it and hit an artery or vein and bled all over me <spurt spurt spurt> with every beat of her heart. and she would have died that night if i hadn't have found her, too!  and i sat and saw her lie to the hospital staff in the ER and manipulate them into letting her go home, saying she only meant to self-harm not to kill herself.  and those a$$holes believed her and let her go?  stop lying!   if you don't think i have an internal mechanism for saving people, think again.  i have PTSD about it.  sorry i do not mean to try to make this about me, not at all, just giving you some insight from the other side, of how this stuff can affect people.

plz plz go back to the hospital.  let them give you meds... .   get you stabilized.  let them get you some help.  let them give you some time to line up what/how/where you're going to live.  if you refuse to go back i for one will have to stop reading your threads for my own preservation b/c you are clearly begging for help but refusing to take it.  why?  why talk talk talk update update but not go to hosipital where they can help you?   how do you think everyone here will feel, everyone thats been reading your posts and trying to help you, if you refuse help and end up killing yourself?  surely you don't want that for us?  do you?

[Matt]

ucmeicu2 makes some good points, especially about meds.

I was very anti-meds, and I still am, kind of.  But when I got super-low - situational depression so it's probably kind of different from what you're dealing with, but I was still super-low - I finally gave in and got some meds, and within a few weeks I was doing better, and then I was able to find solutions over time.

Meds can break the downward spiral so you have a chance to find a path forward.

[damage control]

ucmeicu2

Thanks for your response.

I understand what you are saying here. I guess part of posting is that it is anonymous here - with that anonymity (I thought) was the fact that nobody here knows me or where or who or am and (consequently) any feelings of obligation or similar should be neutered.

I am not trying to be disturbing or to make people uncomfortable ... I am not really trying to do anything at all but talk/vent ... and it is of just as much concern to me that I am causing anybody any real or ongoing concern ...

I simply don't really know what else to do at the moment.

(@matt as well)

Hospital is a non-option. I have my dog here and nobody to take care of her if I go to hospital - plus, I am trying to show my job that I am here if they want/need me ... I just have to sit tight and see what happens with that ... the job alone gives me something to work for during the day by touching base, emailing, calling to let them know I am here.

I don't really want to get into the non/meds ... .

I am so sorry for any distress I have caused or am causing anybody ... . that splintering of people I spoke of? This is exactly it and I completely get how and why it happens ... . I don't know what else to say.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Damage-

Another day and you're still with us!  And another day away from him; hallelujah!

So.  No friends or family, no money, nobody to talk to, no bf, maybe no job.  What do you have to lose by surrendering to professional care again?  Oh yeah, your dog.  I know you care about that pooch, I can relate, I have two.  Tell me, how did the dog factor in when you were sitting there blade in hand?

[damage control]

Hey H2H

Yes. I am still here. I have no immediate plans to be otherwise to be honest ... . I am a long way from finding anything at all in the minute/hour/day but I am OK with sitting in this room for the time being.

As for my dog the other day - I knew that either my ex or the other couple (not the ones I had issues with) would see to her and make sure she was OK.

The young girl (from that couple) told me on Sunday that when the police revived me momentarily when I was being put into the ambulance, she came to see if I was OK and I said to her "please don't let them hurt my baby girl" ... . She is my biggest consideration ATM ...

[damage control]

ucmeicu2

That wasn't in any way aimed at you personally - honestly.

You weren't the first one to say something - there were comments removed the other day before the thread was moved and I honestly, and with no other motive or intent simply do not want to cause any more drama or discomfort to anybody else ... truly.

I am not sure how to answer your question or rather, I am not sure what you are asking when you say "what is the real reason?" ... sorry to be dense - can you elaborate?

[damage control]

A quick update:

Work just called and they want me back on Thursday for a few days and back on the roster as of end of next week,

This is good. It gives tomorrow some semblance of meaning as I can work on getting my dog used to me being gone ready for the following day.

This is good.

[Matt]

A quick update:

Work just called and they want me back on Thursday for a few days and back on the roster as of end of next week,

This is good. It gives tomorrow some semblance of meaning as I can work on getting my dog used to me being gone ready for the following day.

This is good.

Wow - congratulations!

Seems like it means some other things too:  work makes us feel good and useful, gives us focus, and (I hope) pays the bills.

If you don't mind saying, what kind of work do you do?  (I'm an engineer - I consult with little companies to solve technical and business problems.)

[damage control]

Work does mean other things Matt ... you are correct there.

I have always taught university well, apart from 3 years teaching HS but this is a new field for me - my (academic) area is media/cultural studies and I am now working for a Media company - we do a range of things for TV stations - captioning, script editing, previewing of TV shows for edits and live respeaking of News/sport ... so, it has been a re-skilling for me and a big change.

Engineering is interesting work!

[Matt]

That sounds pretty cool - it can be fun to go into another area, where you have some useful background but you're also learning new stuff and working with new people.

Engineering is fun, especially developing new products.  What I'm doing now lets me meet and work with small, young companies, which is exciting - one company I worked with developed an amazing electric motor for cars, and I'm now working with a company on new solar electric technology - very solid stuff that really works and is making money already.

Ironically, I got into this because of my ex!  She melted down, physically attacked me, then called 911 and accused me of assaulting her, and we both spent the night in jail.  After that I couldn't get work in the industry I had been in - they check backgrounds and if you have even been accused of domestic violence you don't get an interview - so I had to find something new.  It wasn't my choice but it has turned out very well - with a little luck I'll make quite a bit more this year than I ever did in my chosen field, and I'm traveling less so I have more time with my kids.

So you'll be working all day Thursday?

[damage control]

Yes ... Thursday + Friday and then a re-assess of hours after that ...

[Matt]

I think your dog will be fine.  I left mine at home all day for years - he was always excited when I got home but it was never a problem if you aren't gone overnight.

[maxen]

that's great news DC!

[ucmeicu2]

I guess part of posting is that it is anonymous here - with that anonymity (I thought) was the fact that nobody here knows me or where or who or am and (consequently) any feelings of obligation or similar should be neutered.

"neutered"?  

yes it's anonymous here.  it's also called "BPDfamily".  

i could be wrong, but think it's called "family" b/c it's a community of folks who care about each other, who may bond with each other, who ask for and receive support.  i think if you just wanted to talk you'd maybe call a hotline or if you just wanted to vent you'd maybe just journal... . or talk to your dog.  i think you come here, as all(?) of us do, to add the human element, to get feedback, to not feel alone.  if i'm wrong on that, plz let me know.  until then, i am a human element and i'm giving you feedback and i'm telling you you are not alone.  

i know you are in a fragile state of mind.  i know my words might not be perfect, they might hurt you, but i can only do the best i can.  i like to keep it real, not just soft peddle rainbows and unicorns.  if you were my sister/daughter/mother, i'd have you in front of a dr... . pronto!  that being an impossibility, my words here are my next best, nay my ONLY, option.

I simply don't really know what else to do at the moment.

well, at the moment the highest priority sounds like, based on what you've been posting to us, is keeping yourself alive and safe.  in order to do that, you must put yourself first.  even before the dog.

regarding the dog, here are some things you've said:

"She is my biggest consideration ATM... . "

you told matt:  "I have my dog here and nobody to take care of her if I go to hospital"

heel2heal asked:  "So.  No friends or family, no money, nobody to talk to, no bf, maybe no job.  What do you have to lose by surrendering to professional care again?  Oh yeah, your dog.  I know you care about that pooch, I can relate, I have two.  Tell me, how did the dog factor in when you were sitting there blade in hand?"

and your reply was:  "As for my dog the other day - I knew that either my ex or the other couple (not the ones I had issues with) would see to her and make sure she was OK."

so, if i may, heel2heal was saying things seem bleak and what is the harm in at this point in surrendering to health care as well as what were your plans for the dog when you were getting ready to cut/kill yourself.  you replied you knew the couple or your xBF would take care of the dog.  my challenge is that they would also take care of your dog NOW if you go voluntarily to hospital.  i haven't seen you address that.  so my question was since clearly someone WILL care for the dog, the dog is not the issue, why are you using the dog as a reason to not get the help that YOU, we can say with almost 100% assurety, you need?  it's not about the dog, we've established that.  so, what is it really about?  what is truly holding you back from getting the help you need?

"Hospital is a non-option."  yes it is.  it's an option that you've ruled out so far, but it is an option.

[Skip]

well, at the moment the highest priority sounds like, based on what you've been posting to us, is keeping yourself alive and safe.  in order to do that, you must put yourself first.  even before the dog.

DC, you are in a very high risk situation right now - probably higher than you think.  

You're prone to wide mood swings, were living with a person that is emotionally unavailable, a chaotic and emotionally draining relationship on both sides, a living situation "in transition", uncertain employment , you have no local support network, a severe episode of self injury (possibly attempted suicide) - and you are isolated.

As it goes with these things, we all have some level inherent fragility, and when circumstances turn bad (stress goes way up), physical/chemical balances start to occur, and things are primed so that a single event can turn catastrophic.  

A single event.  We have had members here experience this, God rest their weary souls.

We all prone to this - some more than others - and its important for all to see (or listen to others)0 when we are in this state and take significant measures to get on a more firm footing.

Right now, bringing this to light, out of the closet, is the best thing you can do.  "More of the same" is probably the worst thing.

It's time for a bold step... . a strong step.

Your therapist can help you look at the options to you have available.  You can speak to the counselor at the hospital where you were.

Why not take advantage of your transition status to do this as Matt and ucmeicu2 suggest?

Skip

[damage control]

Hi ucmeicu2

I actually meant that hospital is not an option as in I am making it not one.

Although, the dog won't/can't be looked after the ex and/or the couple that took her last weekend because we are no longer at that house (where the dog wasn't allowed anyway - which is what started all of the housing nonsense so, asking that couple to look after her again is impossible, it would start housing issues for THEM - remember, the ex also got evicted due to my dog).

To answer your question - it's not about being 'held back' from getting help per se. I have been hospitalised before and it doesn't 'help' at all. There is no therapy or anything of that nature if this is what you mean - it is a place to ensure that you don't hurt yourself and that is as far as it goes really.

I made an appt and saw my T the other night and I really tried to listen to what she had to say ... . I did look for help.

If I went to hospital that would be game over for my job - the irony of being 'safe' in hospital only to come out to no job (and hence nowhere to live) can't only be clear to me?

You are right when you say that I come here for a human element. I do ... but I honestly think that for everyone, enough has been said on and about this ... . the thread has been culled a few times because of things said, and right now there is just somewhat oppositional and circular thinking and writing - not productive for anybody at all.

I simply don't have anything else to say ... . I didn't start the thread to be talked out of suicide ... I started it to explain and process because here I CAN do that (and also because many people here were aware of the build-up to this I think).

I fully and completely intended to do this again on Monday - but I didn't. Yesterday, I was willing to let things be and just get through the day. I also committed to some work over the coming days. Today ... well, I got a bit of a shock re the ex last night and I am processing that but - I am OK with letting today just float by me as well.

So, I am in a better place than I was 2 days ago ... .


@Skip

Thanks for your advice and concern. I guess much of what I wrote above is applicable to answering you as well

[Skip]

I simply don't have anything else to say ... . I didn't start the thread to be talked out of suicide ... I started it to explain and process because here I CAN do that (and also because many people here were aware of the build-up to this I think).

I fully and completely intended to do this again on Monday - but I didn't. Yesterday, I was willing to let things be and just get through the day.

I'm not sure I follow.  What were you planing to do yesterday?

[damage control]

Sorry Skip - didn't mean to be obtuse.

I was fully intending to finish what I started on Monday (it's Wed morning here). But my point wasn't that - it was that I didn't. And that is something right?

I had a bit of a shock last night with my ex ... . and it triggered (it still is triggering) ... and I am compensating for that this morning but ... and it's a big but ... . I am planning the rest of my day ... . this is huge for me ... I am overcome by it but I am still planning my afternoon ... . this is big step compared to a couple of days ago.

[Forward2free]

I've been reading through your posts today and the responses.

It's so hard to walk in each others shoes, but here you do have a place where we can all truly empathise with you and hope to give you a safe place to talk about what's on your mind, or what isn't.

My darkness lasted for almost a year and I dropped 20kg in under 2 months and was frighteningly thin and distant. If it wasn't for my 2 kids, I would have done more than just consider some long term options to make the pain go too. They were just 1 and 3 at the time and I would hold back the tears until they were in bed and cry until I slept. They needed me, just like your dog needs you. Of course there are other people that could step in with the day to day tasks, but that's not the point. We need the kids/dogs too and that can be enough to keep going when it seems so hard.

I started to get glimmers of light on and off and although it didn't last, it was enough. I started to realise that I controlled my thoughts, not BPD/Nxh or anyone else. I realised it was the voice in my head, repeating the negative views on life, that was bringing me down. No one was following me around 24/7 saying them out aloud. It was me.

I tried to keep busy. I would put my hand up and stay "stop, stop, stop, stop... . " (out aloud) when the negative thoughts would come in. Until they stopped. It was ridiculous, but it helped me control my thoughts and when I'd have them, instead of the other way around.

I had a crazy session with a Kinesiologist and she had me put all the negative energy into a rock, put the rock in the corner and then tell the rock what I thought of it and get rid of the rock. Boy was it weird, but strangely, the energy I used to get the negative thoughts "into" the rock helped. It helped me realise I could define them and then choose not to feel them.

Being busy at work is good. Throw yourself into it. Can you start to volunteer at a shelter or a charity store or a church? Perhaps being around people and feeling useful can help you too?

You mentioned that your ex told you that sex was an issue? I had that too. After years of being told by BPD/Nxh that I was a sexual animal in the bedroom and so amazing etc, he told me one day that he was never attracted to me, he tolerated sex with me to make me happy and would pretend to love my body and my mind and that the truth was that he detested me and the thought of being with me made him physically sick. I was 6 months pregnant at the time and I have never felt more powerless and disgusted with myself. It literally broke me. I told my therapist about it after years of believing his filth. She told me that it was about him and the way he felt about himself and nothing more than projection. I had taken it personally (obviously) and I didn't even know at the time he was BPD/NPD so it was a real wake up.

I realised his comments and degradation of me had nothing to do with me, and his praise and love of me had nothing to do with me either. He was incapable of truly being with me and respecting me and I was holding him to real-world relationship standards.

I needed to work on my own self esteem and build it up again. I didn't want to give him even 1 more minute of renting space in my head and giving him the power to tell me who I am and what I am worth.

4 years on, I am a powerful, confident, self assured woman whom I love and respect. I do not need anyone to validate who I am, although I am open to people who compliment who I am.

I wish you this kind of happiness too. You deserve it xxx

[damage control]

Thank you for sharing your story foward2free, it is appreciated.

I am very sorry that you went through that ordeal and had to deal with children and life at the same time ... it speaks volumes about your strength and resilience that you got through it and have risen above it.

My (sexual) devaluation was somewhat different to yours because my ex doesn't rage - quite the opposite. I think what really hurt in regards to that was that he spoke as if he was talking about a book or film that he once enjoyed but no longer saw any value in - it was very matter-of-fact and really, without malice it would seem ... it just seemed so natural to him that he would no longer find me sexually attractive (ie: why would he?) ... .

I don't really want to talk about it anymore ... . nor how I feel or anything like that ... . I am exhausted and today is proving to be quite the struggle.

But I wanted you to know that I read and appreciate your words.

Thank you.

[Forward2free]

I understand   

[Learning_curve74]

Hey dc, glad to hear that you are getting some work. It is nice to have some structure to the day and know what to expect.

We are all still here to listen whatever your concerns may be. Even if you are "talked out" with us, I hope you find something good in the talks with your T. I know that as soon as I start the trip to visit my T, it has a calming effect on me like a security blanket.

And at certain times it's beyond words and a hug can be the most meaningful thing in the world.   

[damage control]

Hey LC... . thanks for the message

I AM indeed 'talked out' ... . I am not in a close r/s with my T as we have only met 4 times and she is most interested in making me 'safe' ... . I understand this compulsion ... . but it is ironic to me that 'safe' somehow equals 'alive' (and yes, I use the term with air quotes ... I am not 'safe' in the same world as my ex ... far, far from it).

I appreciate the hug ... you have no idea but ... honestly ... I think the touch of another human being would burn right through to the bone right now ... not what everyone wants to hear and probably not how I should feel ... but there it si ... I have been hugging my dog a lot though ... I just want to make her OK ... whatever that does or doesn't mean. I spend hours trying to think what the best thing for her welfare is ... mine is irrelevant ... but my baby girl has kept me planning ... until I make a decision for her, well, I am stuck. Perhaps that is (objectively) a good thing.

Thanks again.

[fromheeltoheal]

Dogs are awesome because they offer true unconditional love, something humans rarely, if ever do. I've overhugged mine in times of strife, and they're always there for me, although sometimes their eyes say "dude, you're trippin.'"

Gotta find a reason and a purpose damage, doesn't have to be today, but believe it's possible, starting now.

[damage control]

I am trying H2H ... . I am really, REALLY trying here.

But I keep getting stuck: wht kind of world doesn't recognise pain and longing and desire but instead offers quick-term solutions through consumtpion of goods and services?

Is it OK to choose an exit from said world or ... is it just simply a selfish act as advocated by the powers that be?

Is my doggie better off coming with me?

Is a world where such pain exists even worth fighting to be part of?

How can I find meaning where there simply is none?

I don't care for money, material goods, security, things, stability or any facsimile thereof ... is it possible to quell one's desire and, if so, ... what worth is the life that does such a thing?

I am trying so hard but it eludes me.

[fromheeltoheal]

But I keep getting stuck: wht kind of world doesn't recognise pain and longing and desire but instead offers quick-term solutions through consumtpion of goods and services?

Goods and services are Band-aides.  Everyone experiences and therefore recognizes pain and longing, they're part of what makes life so awesome, beautiful in it's pain and it's pleasure, in fact, you need one to experience the other.

Is it OK to choose an exit from said world or ... is it just simply a selfish act as advocated by the powers that be?

All acts are selfish, in the end.  :)eciding that offing yourself is the only option indicates you have a belief system that is not supporting you.  Belief systems, like software, are easy to change; just delete it and install something more empowering.  Yes, it is that simple, and I'm not making light when you're struggling, I'm serious.

Is my doggie better off coming with me?

You hurt that dog and I will hate you forever.

Is a world where such pain exists even worth fighting to be part of?

Yes, because massive pleasure exists too, in fact they need each other.

How can I find meaning where there simply is none?

By stopping looking outside for it and defining it for yourself.

I don't care for money, material goods, security, things, stability or any facsimile thereof ... is it possible to quell one's desire and, if so, ... what worth is the life that does such a thing?

It isn't about those things, it's about what they give you: certainty, variety, significance, connection, love, growth, contribution.  Those things are just vehicles to give you what you really need, and they can be found without them.

I am trying so hard but it eludes me.

You are stronger than your current circumstances.  Quit fcking with me and prove it.

[LilMissSunshine]

Oh DC, I just found this thread, read it, cried for awhile and now I’m back to say this:

Please, please, please take care of yourself.  You’ve offered me some good advice in the past and cheered me up when I was feeling low.  I admit, I’ve never been in the shoes your in right now and have no expertise on the subject.  But I do know that I look up to you and could not bear to lose you.  Your one of my favs.  

Show me how you just say f%&k it, pick yourself up, hold your head high, put a smile on your face and smile as you realize the wonderful future that lays ahead for you.  Show me that there is hope by being one of the biggest success stories evah.

Love you, LMS

[Skip]

what kind of world doesn't recognise pain and longing and desire but instead offers quick-term solutions through consumtpion of goods and services?

What do you mean by this?  Who is doing what and what should they be doing differently.  Can you break it down?

Is it OK to choose an exit from said world or ... is it just simply a selfish act as advocated by the powers that be?

Doesn't this depend on the who is left behind?  If there is no one, it probably isn't very selfish at all.

If there is someone, then their lives are very much effected.  My girlfriends ex killed himself and then there were two teenage boys left to try and understand life.  I helped the boys.  It affected us all very deeply - in ways I would not have imagined.  In ways you might not imagine at all.

There is an older women in the neighborhood some years back that took her life.  She was alone.  I don't know that anyone was affected by it other than her.

You have a little time now.  Did you ever think of volunteering with a survivors group.  It might really help answer this question.

[damage control]

Oh DC, I just found this thread, read it, cried for awhile and now I’m back to say this:

Please, please, please take care of yourself.  You’ve offered me some good advice in the past and cheered me up when I was feeling low.  I admit, I’ve never been in the shoes your in right now and have no expertise on the subject.  But I do know that I look up to you and could not bear to lose you.  Your one of my favs.

Show me how you just say f%&k it, pick yourself up, hold your head high, put a smile on your face and smile as you realize the wonderful future that lays ahead for you.  Show me that there is hope by being one of the biggest success stories evaaaaaah!

Love you, LMS

Thanks LMS ... xx

[damage control]

@H2H:

Thanks for your post.

I don't quite know where to start in answering/responding but I appreciate both your time and the challenge implicit ... .

I am uncertain of what else to say ... . but wanted you to know that I read what you wrote and it means a lot that you did.

DC

[damage control]

@Skip

Thank you also for the post and the question/s and insight/s.

I am also not sure how to answer your question ... . breaking down what I mean about longing and consumption? ... . I don't know where to start.

I am almost all worded out. I feel like I have said everything and am just worn out from going in circles - verbally, emotionally.

[fromheeltoheal]

I played Candy Crush; went through so many levels I needed a dentist.

As far as a diversion, soother and brain occupier it worked great.

[Perfidy]

DC... Can I ask you something?

Yes perfidy?

DC, do you want to feel better?

Yes perfidy, I want to stop hurting. I want the pain to stop.

You know DC, to feel better you have to be alive.


This was based on my own experience with prevention.

There was more. This is what made the most sense to me.

Second in importance was leaving my children with the grief that I was feeling.

It was not fair of me to pass my grief on to my children. I love them too much.

Thirdly... . The feeling will pass. This I did not believe. It persisted for months. I know now that the feeling passes because it has passed several times. It will pass.

I was told to pick a date and not to do it until that date. Oh yes, I was suffering. I had everything planned out.

DC... I know how hard this is. I want you to know that you aren't alone. It can and will get better.

[RecycledNoMore]

I played Candy Crush; went through so many levels I needed a dentist.

As far as a diversion, soother and brain occupier it worked great.

Skyrim here:)

I played untill I was pretty much omnipotent.

You do need a break dc, your going through some heavy sht right now,how is your new home? Maybe you could try redecorating, I went to opshops, picked up small beautiful things,and apparently some pretty uggo stuff too it helped to keep my mind from reaching critical mass and exploding.

[LilMissSunshine]

DC, Checking in on you from half a world away.  Thinking of you and hoping your doing a lil bit better today   

Hang in there girlfriend.  Lot's of people all over the planet    and care about you.

[damage control]

Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts. I don't think I am 'not' depressed ... . but I have been told this on and off my entire life and think it's a simplistic diagnosis ... I don't mean that depression or being depressed are simple ... far from it, but I do think that for most people, it is situational, or a one-off; something that happened to them due to specific circumstances.

I don't really play video games although I play bejewelled a lot on my iPhone for a while there.

I have TV shows that I (re)watch ... . I need the narratives, I need the actions and words of characters to be dense, have resonance and to touch me ... I find it soothing.


@Perdy

Thanks hun. I KNOW the feeling will pass. I also KNOW that taking meds will expedite that process - what I am stuck on is knowing that when this feeling passes, I will revert back to a world/life that makes no sense and has nothing to offer but the blandness of work, consumption and sleep.

I am glad that you made it through and it is wonderful to hear you so strong ... x

@Recycled

New home is both good and bad - it's wonderful for the dog, it is very close to the train and local stores. The bad stuff is that I am going to be struggling to pay for the next few weeks as I have not been to work for nearly 3 weeks - except for the 2 days this pay period - plus, the guy I am sharing with is creepy and utterly boring simultaneously. Wonderful.

@LMS

Thanks for checking in ... I am doing about the same I guess. But I am doing right?

[damage control]

I wasn't going to post on here about this because I am not sure what to say about it but ... . I guess it is relevant.

Today was one-week since I spoke to or saw the ex. He emailed me on Wed and I responded briefly but other than that, no contact.

He called this afternoon (just to check in and have a chat as well as to let me know that he has now also moved out of the crazy sharehouse we were in).

I am having a lot of trouble letting him go.

Unlike many people who post on this site, he did not rage or abuse - neither did I. His abuse/issues are of a different variety - his pathology is still there - as is mine - but anger directed outward is not part of that. So, it's not like he calls to yell at me or to denigrate me ... he doesn't. Of course, he has denigrated me in different ways ... this thread pays testament to that.

I don't really know why he wants to hang onto me so badly. Because he values my company? Possibly ... because he and I get along really well? Also possible. I don't really know and it's possible he doesn't really either ... . he doesn't want me - not in the way I want him anyway so, it's very confusing.

He has been on his dating site for 12-15 hours a day every day for about 12 days now. He used to check it a few times a day but at the moment, it's addiction gone nuts.

I am still too enmeshed in it all ... . still too vulnerable to him ... . still unable to pull that plug and walk away ... . it feels ... . I'm not sure of the feeling exactly ... (perhaps futile?) or immature to cut someone out of my life because I want more than he can or wants to give when that person is trying to be 'a friend' ... . not sure if that makes sense.

[Matt]

DC, I think you're right that depression is often "situational".  In fact that's exactly how my psychiatrist described where I was when I first saw him - at my worst - early 2009.

My sister has struggled with depression her whole adult life, but I never did, til events (deaths in the family, marriage collapsing, my son's addiction and incarceration) sent me spinning.  For quite a while I saw a counselor but did not consider meds, til I just got so low I knew I had to do something different.  A wise friend with experience told me, "Talk to a doctor and get a prescription, and take the meds til you decide you don't need them."  And that's what I did.

The psychiatrist offered me Xanax and an SSRI - I don't remember the name of the SSRI but it was one of the leading ones.  I turned down the Xanax because it is addictive and I'm prone to addiction (though it was pretty tempting!).  I took the SSRI for about a year.  The SSRI did not immediately make me feel better - it doesn't give you a buzz or a recognizable good feeling - it just prevents you from going super-low to the point where you can't function.  And I think it allows you to think clearly all the time and make good decisions (or at least as good as I'm capable of making!).

The only side-effects I felt were right at the beginning and at the end.  At the beginning I think a little upset stomach for a few days.  Then when I quit taking them - actually I lost the bottle and decided not to get the prescription re-filled - I got a very uncomfortable feeling, kind of like a spinning head.  So I found them and tapered off instead of cold turkey, and that worked - no side-effects.  I've been off them for a few years and doing fine but I would consider taking them again if I needed to.

My sister has taken all sorts of stuff - she finds something that works and takes it, but then maybe she gains weight or there's something else she doesn't like about it, so she tries something else, or goes off her meds for a while and usually regrets it.  She's in much better shape now than at some times in the past, but I don't know if she will ever go off meds permanently.

My suggestion is, go with whatever your doctor has prescribed, til you are doing very well for a period of time - maybe six months or so - and then consider tapering off them if you decide that is wise.  :)on't get (like I was) determined never to take them, but also don't convince yourself you will always need them - just use them when you need to (like now I think) but keep your mind open about what might be best in the future.

I think SSRIs or whatever are especially sensible right now, since you're starting work, and you'll want to be thinking very clearly so you can do your best.  In six months or so, you might be at a different place - who knows - but for right now it's best to just do what you need to do so you can prosper and function your very best.

I'm also going to comment in a minute on the other subject - your ex... .

Best wishes,

Matt

[Matt]

So... . the ex... .

I'm not a psychologist and I don't know your ex, and nobody can diagnose somebody over the internet.  But it's pretty clear from all you have written - most recently spending a huge amount of time every day on dating sites - that he isn't good for you right now.

I think it's pretty clear that you would do better if you step away from him - have no contact at all - at least for some period of time.  You need to work on your issues, and start a new job (by the way, how's that going so far?), and just recover from stuff and get more stable - all about you right now.  And in the meantime, he clearly has some issues he needs to work on, and 12 hours a day on dating sites probably isn't the kind of therapy he needs - he may not be getting healthier and until he does it's pretty hard to imagine how spending time with him will help you in any way.

So... . would you consider just not having any contact with him for the time being?  If you think it would be best to do him the courtesy of telling him, "I wish you well but I don't want to have contact with you right now.  I'll let you know if that changes." or whatever, there's no harm in that, but you would need to be clear that "no contact" means "no contact" - no texting, Facebook, e-mail, phone, etc.

You could try that for, say, a week, or a month, and see how it goes.  My guess is, if you fill up your life with other stuff - work, exercise, or whatever - you'll think about him less over time, and that will help.

Depression and stress go hand-in-hand, and a relationship with somebody who has problems and isn't getting help can be incredibly stressful, as all of us here know from experience.  Getting away from the relationship will relieve your stress, and ease your depression (or whatever you call it) at least somewhat.  I can't really see any reason not to do that now - there's just no way that continuing to have contact with him while he's so unhealthy and you're feeling so bad can make sense.  Like eating spicy food when your stomach is upset - it can't help and it's almost certain to make things worse.

Best,

Matt

[damage control]

Hey Matt

Thanks for sharing more of your experience.

I have been on and off SSRI's since ... . well ... forever. Yes, they have benefits, and usually, I can take them for a year or so, taper off and then go another year before things spiral again. But they disconnect me and make me numb and as much as I don't want to where and who I am now, being that indifferent, disconnected (and medicated) woman - I can't go back to being her all over again just to have it all crash and burn again ... . I just cannot face that.

[Perfidy]

Fu€king glad to hear from you sis.

[damage control]

Your post made me laugh Perdy ... out loud to ... hehe 

[Matt]

Just remembered the name of the one I took:  Lexapro.  I got no feelings of numbness (and I realize you don't mean physical numbness of the body) or disconnection.  In fact, I didn't feel different at all - there was no clear difference, except I didn't go so low.  To be honest, I'm not even 100% sure the Lexapro did anything - it's possible that I was just doing better because I had bottomed out - but at least I did better during the period when I took them.

I don't know how much the impact of each drug varies from person to person - maybe somebody else taking the same drug would feel number or disconnected.  There are several SSRIs and I think the basic mechanism of how they work is the same, but they're not identical (not just different marketing names for the same stuff) so maybe it would be worthwhile talking to your doctor to see if there is something that would help but wouldn't give that numb feeling.  That's what I was concerned about - why I waited so long to even try anything - because I didn't want to feel like I had a lobotomy or was doped up... .

[damage control]

Matt

I know that he isn't good for me because I don't want a friendship with him and every time he spends time with me/talking to me I cannot help but wonder if today is the day he is going to break down and tell me that this has all been some huge misunderstanding ... . I KNOW this isn't going to happen but when I am with him, it FEELS like it is going to ... . crazymaking.

When I was saying goodbye to him last week (leaving to come to this house), he told me that he wanted to keep up contact but that he would leave it up to me. He didn't.

I have also tried to have NC with him before and he pushed harder to have contact - admittedly, he knows that when I have a 'mood', all anyone needs to do for a day or so is give me time/space and I will be ok ... so, I guess I contributed to that behaviour.

I am not sure if I can just up and call NC and then stick to it ... . I don't trust myself.

I will think about it some more.

PS: I had been at my job for about 6 weeks before all of this crazy happened (dog, house etc) and I couldn't go for  ... well, I have worked 3 days of the last 3 weeks (which adds to financial pressure in a huge way, I will not earn enough this week to pay my rent - which is just another 'crisis' that is coming) ... but, it is going well ... I think.

I had a bad reaction yesterday - there is a young-ish guy there with whom I have developed a kind of flirty thing with ... he is far too young for me but we have a nice sexy vibe ... yesterday, he was completely off with me ... I had not seen him for a couple of weeks and expected the usual fun, cheeky guy but he was ice cold. My pathologies kicked in and it became all about me - what have I done? Why does he hate me? etc ... . and while I can rationalise that it could be about ANYTHING, it feels like it is about me and I can't reconcile the rational thought with the feeling - they contradict each other and cause this awful polarised thinking ... . so ... yesterday was not so great ... hopefully tomorrow will be better.

re: meds.

I do get numb ... not dopey or anything ... I will try and get to a doc this week to perhaps see about a different type of med ...

Thanks

[Matt]

Making NC stick:

We were just talking on another thread about New Year's resolutions.  (My favorite is from a comedian who said his resolution is for everybody else to get their act together.)  My key one is cardiovascular exercise, for a whole bunch of reasons - mental and physical health, etc.

I just read somewhere about how Jerry Seinfeld developed a very simple method, before he was successful.  He decided that the key to his success was to spend time every day writing jokes.  Over time, he refined them and tried them out, to create a good routine;  but the hard part was the actual writing of enough jokes so he could select the very best.

So he found a calendar with a whole year on one big page, and he began to circle the days when he wrote jokes with a red marker, so the circles formed a chain - if he wrote jokes for 5 straight days his chain had 5 links, but if he skipped a day the chain was broken.  He told himself, ":)on't break the chain!".

So I made a calendar like that for myself, and my son saw it and wanted one too.  At the top I wrote, ":)on't break the chain!", and I think of it in Seinfeld's voice, which is kind of funny.  I find it inspiring because we think of entertainers as "talented", but the story shows that in almost every field, it's the guy that plans and works that succeeds... .

Anyhow, I think NC for you might be kind of like that.  You could even use a wall calendar and a marker - every day you have no contact with your ex you can circle, and you can tell yourself (in Seinfeld's voice) ":)on't break the chain!".

If you lapse, forgive yourself and get back on the horse.  :)on't use a mistake as an excuse to abandon NC, just say, "Whoops, that was a mistake, so I'll have to start a new chain."  Then... . Don't break the chain!

[Surnia]

I am glad to hear from you again, DC. 

I can second Matt about the Chain thing. Little realistic task. It feels great. 

[Forward2free]

Making NC stick:

We were just talking on another thread about New Year's resolutions.  (My favorite is from a comedian who said his resolution is for everybody else to get their act together.)  My key one is cardiovascular exercise, for a whole bunch of reasons - mental and physical health, etc.

I just read somewhere about how Jerry Seinfeld developed a very simple method, before he was successful.  He decided that the key to his success was to spend time every day writing jokes.  Over time, he refined them and tried them out, to create a good routine;  but the hard part was the actual writing of enough jokes so he could select the very best.

So he found a calendar with a whole year on one big page, and he began to circle the days when he wrote jokes with a red marker, so the circles formed a chain - if he wrote jokes for 5 straight days his chain had 5 links, but if he skipped a day the chain was broken.  He told himself, ":)on't break the chain!".

So I made a calendar like that for myself, and my son saw it and wanted one too.  At the top I wrote, ":)on't break the chain!", and I think of it in Seinfeld's voice, which is kind of funny.  I find it inspiring because we think of entertainers as "talented", but the story shows that in almost every field, it's the guy that plans and works that succeeds... .

Anyhow, I think NC for you might be kind of like that.  You could even use a wall calendar and a marker - every day you have no contact with your ex you can circle, and you can tell yourself (in Seinfeld's voice) ":)on't break the chain!".

If you lapse, forgive yourself and get back on the horse.  :)on't use a mistake as an excuse to abandon NC, just say, "Whoops, that was a mistake, so I'll have to start a new chain."  Then... . Don't break the chain!

I love this idea Matt and can think of many areas in my life where a visual aid could help. Thank you for your insight on this!

DC, good for you for making it through without contacting your ex. It's really tough to not take a call from someone you care about and it takes some time to build up the courage.

I changed my ex's name on my phone to "X Do not answer" and the visual aid would flash when he rang. It made me feel different when I saw it, whereas when I saw his name, some good feelings were activated.

It's a small step but it became about me choosing to take/not take a call instead of feeling obliged to answer which was a huge shift. Perhaps it could help you too?

I don't think you should overthink the interaction with the guy at work. Everyone has their own stuff going on and I don't think any of us influence as much as we might think. Just try to let it go and remind yourself that other people's behavior is out of your area of control, you only control yourself in every situation.

[damage control]

Hey F2F

Just to clarify - I DID take the call from my ex.

We are not on bad terms - quite the opposite - which makes it difficult to NOT take calls/have contact.

I am struggling today with all of this ... my thoughts are no more stable than they were a week ago, I am obsessively thinking about him every minute of every day and just cannot seem to break that. I don't know if NC will or would help with this ... but I need to think it through a bit more.

[Perfidy]

Hey F2F

Just to clarify - I DID take the call from my ex.

We are not on bad terms - quite the opposite - which makes it difficult to NOT take calls/have contact.

I am struggling today with all of this ... my thoughts are no more stable than they were a week ago, I am obsessively thinking about him every minute of every day and just cannot seem to break that. I don't know if NC will or would help with this ... but I need to think it through a bit more.

DC... . I hope you are feeling better. I know firsthand how hard depression is to live with. Those obsessive thoughts can be caused by depression. They are also a source of depression. It's a vicious cycle. DBT can help.

Sounds like he is the trigger for your pain. Sweetheart, I know how tough this is, you gotta get away from him and stay away from him. I'm hoping for you!

[Skip]

... . my thoughts are no more stable than they were a week ago, I am obsessively thinking about him every minute of every day and just cannot seem to break that. I don't know if NC will or would help with this ... but I need to think it through a bit more.

DC,

You are likely/possibly in a suicidal ideation depression with anxiety.  NC has a lot of anxiety associated with it so its not going to help... . things are going to continue to ebb and flow into the danger zone.

At this point, you aren't vigorously seeking care even though care is available to you.  You do not want to take your prescription meds even though you have valid scripts.  I think I speak for everyone here, we want you to get medical assistance.  We want to help, but we can only supplement your clinical plan, we can't be your clinical plan.

We've asked you privatively to open a thread about establishing a safety plan.  We can help with that.  We've asked you privatively to open a thread to discuss your reservation about taking your meds. We can help with that, too.   It would be good to talk about therapy options.

Baby steps.  Just start the conversation.  You're out of the acute suicidal phase.      

We're here for you and we need you to take the basic steps to get on Terra firma.  At bpdfamily we promote recovery - save a family - save a life.

We are not an self injury or suicide contemplation website.  There are sites like that and they have tools for people to make those life choices. We don't have those tools.   We all mean well, but as you have said, a lot of people are making well meaning but patronizing comments because they don't really know.  It's the nature of this messageboard and of people coming an going.

Is bpdfamily the place for you right now?  You can decide that. But here we will always want you to reach for a healing place.

Skip

[ucmeicu2]

... . my thoughts are no more stable than they were a week ago, I am obsessively thinking about him every minute of every day and just cannot seem to break that. I don't know if NC will or would help with this ... but I need to think it through a bit more.

DC,

You are likely in a suicidal ideation depression with anxiety.  NC has a lot of anxiety associated with it so its not going to help... . things are going to continue to ebb and flow into the danager zone.

At this point, you aren't vigorously seeking care even though care is available to you.  You do not want to take your prescription meds even though you have valid scripts.  

I think I speak for everyone here, we want you to get medical assistance.  We want to help, but we can only supplement your clinical plan, we can't be your clinical plan.

We've asked you privatively to open a thread about establishing a safety plan.  We can help with that.

We've asked you privatively to open a thread to discuss your reservation about taking your meds. We can help with that, too.

It would be good to talk about therapy options.

Baby steps.  Start the conversation.  You're out of the acute suicidal phase.      

We're here for you and we need you to take the basic steps to get on Terra firma.  At the same time we are not an self injury or suicide contemplation website.  There are sites like that and they have tools for people to make those life choices.  We don't.  We all mean well, but as you have said, a lot of people are making well meaning but patronizing comments because they don't really know.  It's the nature of a messageboard with people coming an going.

Is bpdfamily the place for you?  You decide.  But here we promote recovery - save a family - save a life.

Skip

in a show of support, all around, i'd like to say i agree with everything Skip has said here.

[Rapt Reader]

This thread is inactive and has reached its page limit and the OP has voluntarily taken a break from the sight -- so we are locking it.

[damage control]

LMS ... I just saw in another thread that you asked how I am doing

Thanks for asking ... I'll update (FWIW) so you know.

Things are pretty much the same for me. My new house is great for the dog but my new roomie is a high-functioning alcoholic who is interfering with my sleep every night so, I can't see this being a long-term thing here.

Work has taken a hit due to the 3 weeks I had off - everyone else got 3 weeks more training that I did during that period for our big new contract and I am out of the loop with that. So not only did I miss out on 3 weeks' pay, I am down on hours in general as I cannot  be rostered in that section which is where all bodies are needed right now.

As for 'him'.

Well, the good news is I am at 15 days NC as from today. I didn't ask him for NC but all contact has/had been initiated by him and he has stopped calling/texting/emailing. It's weird because our last call was no different to any other: friendly.

I think my replacement has been replaced and I get the feeling he is toying with at least 2/3 women right now. This is what he wanted - to be free to play the field - so I think he is content right now not having me to feel guilty about.

I still check the dating site regularly to see how often he is there - I do it because it reassures me that he is still trawling and that he hasn't met 'the one' who will manage to change him from that - it's the last connection - and I need to sever it - but ... I am finding that difficult.

I am still struggling emotionally. Things are dark and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon. This r/s has made me confront some things both about myself and the world that I would rather had stayed buried. I feel exposed and vulnerable wherever I go, although I am adept at covering that and, at work for example, I put a wonderful mask.

I don't cry every day and I am thinking about what I want in terms of weeks rather than hours - ie: getting out of this house - and that is a good thing I think.

Sorry for the long post - and apologies also that I cannot report that everything is just dandy

Thanks again for asking and sorry that I didn't see your question until today. 

[Findingmysong723]

Glad to hear your doing better, you still want some things to improve but it's a great start which is awesome!

[Perfidy]

Yeah DC... I'm glad for you that n/c has begun. Happy that you have new another place to live too. Pat the pooch on the head for me and give a little scratch behind the ear. You know, toward the end of your post you reminded me of something and I pick up on it a lot more now. Gratitude. You wrote that not everything is dandy, and that's ok, because not always everything's dandy. Listing the things that are dandy helps push dandy to the front and lets not so dandy get the spotlight. It just feels better. Thank you for reminding me!

[damage control]

Thanks FMS

Perdy ... absolutely - sometimes things are just not dandy indeed.

I am grateful for my dog (and she loved the pat btw) and I am grateful that I am back to having a wage come in by the end of this week (things have gotten close to the bone this past week or so and I am literally living on toast and water) ... I am grateful that when I am at work, I have cool people who I like to be with ... .

[Perfidy]

Awesome DC. That has been one of the biggest boosts I've had. That brings me up.

[laelle]

DC,  It is good to hear that you are pushing forward.

I would like to highly recommend a book that I have been reading.

The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson.  You can pick it up on amazon for a phone or kindle for about 10 dollars.

It explains a lot about hormones and how they affect our emotions when abandoning a relationship.

It is always better to take the path of pushing forward than to looking back... . different hormones are secreted just from our own thoughts.

It has been a great book for me, and really helps in grieving loss.  My loss began way before my ex, but I want my childhood loss and fears to stop here.

I think it would be a great benefit for anyone going through what we are.

 Laelle

[Learning_curve74]

Thank you for updating us, dc. It sounds like you're still struggling but not quite as badly as before. While your current living situation isn't ideal, it sounds a lot better and much less harmful than what you had before.

You sound downright cheery about having cool people you like at work. Keep on keeping on. And give your dog a doggie biscuit from me, even if it's only a virtual one... .