I never gave properly "validation" to my BPDex... feeling awful.

[Nicco]

These last days i'm reading a lot about "validation" and it doesn't make me feel good at myself.

During my r/s i knew pratically nothing about BPD so even less about right tools to menage it... . and thinking about the past,what happened,i figuered out that often i didn't validate her feelings in a properly way... . i tried on my way to comfort her but i did it wrong probably... . and happened,sometimes,that i was so desesperate by her incessant crying and the feeling that she was manipulating me with her behaviours that i raged at her... . or just did nothing... . i feel so awful and guilty for that  :'( i'll never forgive myself for my behaviours.

I'm a good person,but i acted very bad sometimes.

If i was a better human kind,maybe we were still together now... . to don't be aware about how BPD works it's not a guilt,but there are no excuses for what i've done anyway.

Poor her  :'( feeling really bad.

[Ironmanrises]

Had you given her validation would have only prolonged the inevitable; your expwBPD would have most likely still idealized, devalued, and ultimately discarded you. There is no win. Read all the accounts on here. It is not a happy read. Hang in there.

[irishmarmot]

Yes, best the relationship die sooner rather than later.  In Vietnam they used to say that if u were going die it was better to get it in the first few days, the logic being that you didn't suffer as much.  My expwBPD referred to our relationship as a war.  She was not far from the truth, except she was fighting herself and I was fighting an illusion.

[Nicco]

Yes, best the relationship die sooner rather than later.  In Vietnam they used to say that if u were going die it was better to get it in the first few days, the logic being that you didn't suffer as much.  My expwBPD referred to our relationship as a war.  She was not far from the truth, except she was fighting herself and I was fighting an illusion.

Starting from the point that i really appreciate the Platoon's movie quote about when would be better to die in Vietnam   that is exactly what i'm saying in loop to myself... . that even if i was the most powerful good boyfriend who ever walked the earth things were meant to fall apart anyway.

The problem is that i don't believe it... . what we do?

[Turkish]

These last days i'm reading a lot about "validation" and it doesn't make me feel good at myself.

During my r/s i knew pratically nothing about BPD so even less about right tools to menage it... . and thinking about the past,what happened,i figuered out that often i didn't validate her feelings in a properly way... . i tried on my way to comfort her but i did it wrong probably... . and happened,sometimes,that i was so desesperate by her incessant crying and the feeling that she was manipulating me with her behaviours that i raged at her... . or just did nothing... . i feel so awful and guilty for that  :'( i'll never forgive myself for my behaviours.

Hi Nicco, good to hear from you again.

I am going through this exact same thing, like I didn't validate her properly, and I could have made it better if I had understood. But really, how could we not have understood unless it got to this point? Have you ever had to work soo hard at a r/s before?

And here is one more thing to consider: how did she every lovingly validate YOU?

I agree with Ironman, though it is a hard thing to wrap one's mind around... . it would probably have only prolonged the inevitable, and you may have been walking on eggshells for years. Read the Staying and Undecided Boards if you have doubt. The success stories seem to be few and far between... . not that we  are exactly representative of the population of people dealing with pwBPD... . we're hear for a reason: frustration and the search for knowledge and healing. How many nons are discontent to live their private hells and suffer in silence?

[MrConfused]

Ouch, are you me?

I did the same, tried to comfort her but it was just a matter of time before she'd cry again or manipulate me with her behaviours to get what she wanted (Me on a leash basically)

I raged at the end as well (Via txt, in person she had ways of spinning things to keep me hooked) & she disappeared.

It's taken me a... . long time to forgive myself for it. I don't think I ever truly will but like me, you will in time realise that your emotions were at complete and utter breaking point & what you did was a defence mechanlism kicking in over how badly you'd been treated.

If they can't handle being told some hard truths at times then do you really want to be in a relationship with them? Someone who ignores/belittles your feelings & instead chooses to run away and start the rollercoaster with someone else?

You'll also realise that you simply could not have ever "won" and gotten what you wanted/deserved which was a loving 50/50 relationship, they just aren't capable of it. For a long time I thought... . what if I hadn't raged at her, what if I'd just carried on a bit longer... .

By getting out NOW you've saved yourself, I put EVERYTHING into it for 8/12 months & it was slowly turning me into a shell of a person. If I was still on that rollercoaster I think eventually I'd have lost everything.


Believe me, it does get easier in time. Just hang in there.

[Ironmanrises]

You have to have a life independent of the pwBPD for it to work. You have to emotionally detach yourself. To me, that defeats the very purpose of a relationship.

[MrConfused]

You have to have a life independent of the pwBPD for it to work. You have to emotionally detach yourself. To me, that defeats the very purpose of a relationship.

Right, or even a friendship. I TRIED that, really tried it but the only way to make that work was to invest myself almost as heavily as before. You STILL lose.

Friends don't treat me as badly as she did.

If I have to emotionally detach myself (like I've been doing) to be her friend, then she can't ever be my friend as like pretty much everyone else here, I have emotional ties to my friends & not having them would defeat the point in friendship to me.

[Ironmanrises]

These last days i'm reading a lot about "validation" and it doesn't make me feel good at myself.

During my r/s i knew pratically nothing about BPD so even less about right tools to menage it... . and thinking about the past,what happened,i figuered out that often i didn't validate her feelings in a properly way... . i tried on my way to comfort her but i did it wrong probably... . and happened,sometimes,that i was so desesperate by her incessant crying and the feeling that she was manipulating me with her behaviours that i raged at her... . or just did nothing... . i feel so awful and guilty for that  :'( i'll never forgive myself for my behaviours.

Hi Nicco, good to hear from you again.

I am going through this exact same thing, like I didn't validate her properly, and I could have made it better if I had understood. But really, how could we not have understood unless it got to this point? Have you ever had to work soo hard at a r/s before?

And here is one more thing to consider: how did she every lovingly validate YOU?

I agree with Ironman, though it is a hard thing to wrap one's mind around... . it would probably have only prolonged the inevitable, and you may have been walking on eggshells for years. Read the Staying and Undecided Boards if you have doubt. The success stories seem to be few and far between... . not that we  are exactly representative of the population of people dealing with pwBPD... . we're hear for a reason: frustration and the search for knowledge and healing. How many nons are discontent to live their private hells and suffer in silence?

Only during idealization. Than it vanishes. Only to reappear when the  pwBPD returns to re-idealize. To than vanish yet again. Futile. No point.

You have to have a life independent of the pwBPD for it to work. You have to emotionally detach yourself. To me, that defeats the very purpose of a relationship.

Right, or even a friendship. I TRIED that, really tried it but the only way to make that work was to invest myself almost as heavily as before. You STILL lose.

Friends don't treat me as badly as she did.

If I have to emotionally detach myself (like I've been doing) to be her friend, then she can't ever be my friend as like pretty much everyone else here, I have emotional ties to my friends & not having them would defeat the point in friendship to me.

Same thing for me. As she started to get close to me and "like" me in that way, her god awful behavior started appearing. No win.

[MrConfused]

Same thing for me. As she started to get close to me and "like" me in that way, her god awful behavior started appearing. No win.

Yeah! We'd have a few weeks of lovelyness but as soon as she realised that she was getting close again and actually enjoying herself, I started getting the awful behavour & lies again. I should have told her to get lost. I tried, I really tried but then I'd get pulled back in again. It was so, so draining.

I *told* her this. She just didn't care.

[MrFox]

Even without knowing that my ex had BPD (she withheld the diagnosis from me), I did a decent job of handling it.  When she would cry (which was pretty often) she would then apologize for it.  I always told her that she had a right to her feelings.  I also did good at remaining detached enough that I was pretty good at not being manipulated by her.  When she would start to get worked up I would calmly tell her to take a second and take some deep breaths and she would settle down a bit and we could talk about things.  All in all i think this is why we lasted a year and a half without any major blow outs.

In the end she still lied, still tried to manipulate, still cheated, and still ended up discarding me.  Don't beat yourself up.  The reality is that you really could have been the greatest partner ever and she still would have left.  You say you didn't have the right tools, well how could you?  Unless she came to you, told you she had BPD, and then asked you to attend therapy together to learn how to be in a relationship together, I can't see you are truly to blame for not having those tools.

BPD is a minefield.  What can be a trigger one day isn't one the next.  What isn't a trigger today is one tomorrow.

[Ironmanrises]

Same thing for me. As she started to get close to me and "like" me in that way, her god awful behavior started appearing. No win.

Yeah! We'd have a few weeks of lovelyness but as soon as she realised that she was getting close again and actually enjoying herself, I started getting the awful behavour & lies again. I should have told her to get lost. I tried, I really tried but then I'd get pulled back in again. It was so, so draining.

I *told* her this. She just didn't care.

As did I. My words were never registered in the proper form. Lost in the forever neverending whirlpool of destruction that swirls around a pwBPD.

[Monarch Butterfly]

Nicco,

  I can say from my experience (17 years) that no form of validation makes a difference. It minimizes fights, but does not create a healthy relationship. You could have validated her the whole time (I did) and the fights and rages would not have been any different. There would have been fewer, but still enough to NOT be normal.

   At least in my relationship, validation did not avoid the harm. They more you validate the more they control you. It becomes all about them. Nothing is about you.

   I had to be there for him 100% of the time. He was never there for me.

   Validation only works if you are on the staying board and if you keep three steps back emotionally - the whole time. You would be listening to what the pwBPD is saying, telling them you understand and care and that their feelings are being heard, but you really can't let them in... .

So even if you validated and tried harder, yes, it would have avoided a few fights. But it still would not have been healthy relationship.

 

 

[ucmeicu2]

These last days i'm reading a lot about "validation" and it doesn't make me feel good at myself.

During my r/s i knew pratically nothing about BPD so even less about right tools to menage it... .

Have you ever had to work soo hard at a r/s before?

And here is one more thing to consider: how did she every lovingly validate YOU?

hi nicco plz learn to be compassionate with yourself... . forgive... . you did the best you could, we all did?  we were not armed properly for this enemy called BPD!

my exBPDgf however WAS armed.  heavily.  she had a degree in social services, had been Dx'd BPD and so had taken DBT classes, so she knew all the buzz words and was highly skilled at not only manipulating me but also validating me.  it's probably the main reason it's been so long n hard to let go of her emotionally ~ because she validated me in an awesome way that no one else ever had.  OTOH, she was also capable of cruel INvalidating at times.  it was, as they say 'the best of times and the worst of times"... .

[maxen]

during the Final Hour when my stbxw revealed her betrayal, she said she hadn't felt "cherished." but the whole history of our relationship, back before the marriage even when we were friends or acquaintances, was marked by her endless attempts, her infinite capacity, to feel hurt. and so after the end, when we met twice, it was a broken record. me: "don't you remember any good times?" she: "yes, but the bad times... . "; me: "we had such fun that day!" she: "yes, but the day before... . "; she "you took me for granted by leaving me upstairs!" me: "i was downstairs doing our laundry!" (yes, we had that exchange). etc etc. in my last communication with her (an email in which i poured myself out and she said she wasn't going to read), i said she'd never feel cherished as long as she was looking for ways to feel hurt.

how do you validate someone like that? nicco i too am mortified by how i reacted sometimes. i got impatient, i got sarcastic, i got JADEd, i ran out of the house to cool off. but even if i had validated her on the most non-patronizing possible way, and even if i had asserted boundaries in the calmest and maturest fashion, i don't know if it would have mattered. the sense of rejection may have welled up inside her and overflowed at some point anyway.

also:

And here is one more thing to consider: how did she every lovingly validate YOU?

it's a measure of my co-dependency, or depression, or something, that it didn't occur to me to ask myself this question explicitly during the marriage.

[Free2Bee]

I've been feeling this way too. The more I learn about BPD and the techniques for managing it, the more I wonder if I could have made it work. But... . many of the things I was doing were correct according to the recommendations - I even tried validation (I remembered it from a conflict resolution class I took years ago). But very 'episode' was slightly different, almost like she was evolving to evade my best intentions. 

I really appreciated the feedback from those of you who *did* try validation. I feel less guilt, hearing your stories.

Nice point, Turkish! My SO *never* validated me. It was like my emotions didn't exist for her - especially during a rage episode.

[Turkish]

 yes, maxen, " you were more concerned with painting the house than me!"  though I  tired and tried to get her involved.  no matter.  it wasn't meeting her needs.  what about the needs of our household?  childish.

it's extremely stressful when we centred ourselves around constantly navigating and trying to meet the needs of an empty person.  we lose ourselves in the process.  it isn't and wasn't healthy.  time to focus on ourselves.  we have every right to,  and that is in no way selfish at all.

[Pretty Woman]

You know, I think we all do this to ourselves and it's not good for us. In a normal relationship if someone is not feeling validated usually they can express this.  Mine would never say anything until she dumped me... . and she always dumped me with someone waiting in the wings.

It's not you. Yes, it takes two but again, there is no communication with a BPD, just projection and blame. They feel so miserable about themselves and if you validate that you are painted black.

My last words to my ex were that she didn't love herself and she would never be happy.  She emailed me back: I'm fine, thank you.

to which I answered, "At least someone is with you".

Mean, yes. And I did email an apology but in the greater scheme of things, no matter what was said, this was never going to work. They cannot successfully have relationship and each one they pick tends to be worse.

[Obibens]

yes, maxen, " you were more concerned with painting the house than me!"  though I  tired and tried to get her involved.  no matter.  it wasn't meeting her needs.  what about the needs of our household?  childish.

Had to laugh at that one.  My favorite was when I came home from work for lunch JUST to talk to her about something else I had 'done'.  I told her at the beginning - I have a meeting at 1:30.  I have to leave at 1.  Of course, an hour later I hear " I can't believe you would choose your JOB over me. After everything I've done for you!"   Yeah, that silly job that provides 100% of our income. 

Sad part is... . I think I actually stayed and missed that meeting, only to have the same conversation a half hour later.  This time I left mid sentance and made it back for my 2 pm meeting.  See where that initial validation got me?  Nowhere.  Boggles the mind sometime.

[findingmyselfagain]

Nicco,

I understand how you feel. I was very kind and compassionate toward my ex, even when she was devaluing me and destroying the r/s. They don't think the same way we do. It doesn't really matter what you say or do. Either they are extremely happy or extremely not happy. Mine was probably as kind as she could have been. During devaluing she told me that she didn't always tell me what she was thinking. How was I supposed to know who she really was? Also that she was pissed that everyone said I was really nice and we looked good together after they found out we postponed things. She said it took more than nice to make a marriage... . which is true... . but it also shouldn't be a war. A close family friend of her family told me that I had a very kind and gentle spirit. So, just thinking about it, how could she find a mate who was much kinder than I was? It was pretty much the consensus among others that I was a good dude. I took care of her and her child... . a lot of stuff! After we broke up and she revealed a little more of herself, I told her I hoped she got better. I sensed that she was very hurt when I was with her, and I recognized that. I was being very genuine and compassionate. But she accused me of being very condescending to her. I can understand that to a degree, but you know, how can you have peace with someone who is always second-guessing?

I saw a post recently when someone suggested it's just false to think the Universe or other people will treat you well simply because you are a good person. I think that's one of the best lessons I've learned from this. And that you can't change who people are... . and that people rarely ever make a change unless they hit rock bottom.

It's taken me a few years but I've reached the point when I know it's best for me to move on and let her deal with herself. Validating her may have prolonged the r/s longer, but I don't think I would've stayed with someone who created so much unnecessary drama. I'm not sure there's much more to be done until/unless she was very mature and in therapy... . which is also pretty rare.

[Turkish]

Nicco,

I understand how you feel. I was very kind and compassionate toward my ex, even when she was devaluing me and destroying the r/s. They don't think the same way we do. It doesn't really matter what you say or do. Either they are extremely happy or extremely not happy. Mine was probably as kind as she could have been. During devaluing she told me that she didn't always tell me what she was thinking. How was I supposed to know who she really was? Also that she was pissed that everyone said I was really nice and we looked good together after they found out we postponed things. She said it took more than nice to make a marriage... . which is true... . but it also shouldn't be a war. A close family friend of her family told me that I had a very kind and gentle spirit. So, just thinking about it, how could she find a mate who was much kinder than I was? It was pretty much the consensus among others that I was a good dude.

Mine's family knows that about me, too. Her mom several times called me "a good man" to her. No matter. She will never meet someone as kind, gentle and mature as me, given her track record. She thinks she found someone kind and gentle... . the love addict who is all into proving himself on the ball field... . obviously a dude with latent anger issues, can't wait to see that one blow up in her face... . but he sure as heck isn't mature, responsible, nor been through the wringer of life as I have to give him any kind of bulwark against the storms of life. She threw away the best thing she ever had, in one of the worse possible ways, like yours did with you. Like most of them did with all of us. Their loss. As Ironman says in his .sig: "Congratulations, you lost me."

[Changingman]

I find this thread disgusting, not sure who is asking this question but it feels wrong.

You're asking us if we were not thoughtful enough?

I think most of us here put heart soul finances emotions into our relationships with these demons and they lied to us from the beginning. They a used us physically mentally emotionally and financially. Your question seems to suggest that we didn't give enough or we could have changed the RS if we were clever enough to know something we didn't ?

This feels a bit turning the mirror around, transference, projection.

What do you really want to say!

It was our faults?

Please!

Pay some respect to the disorder and to the abused broken people trying to scramble some semblance of hope, self respect, love, physical health and trust back.

God bless everyone here.

[Learning_curve74]

Nicco, it's okay to have the feeling that you didn't work hard enough. That would make anybody feel bad in the aftermath of a breakup whether or not BPD is involved. You must also look at the facts: a relationship is a bond created by two people. You are not powerful enough to make her love you, solve her problems, or cure her BPD. That is a simple impossibility.

A person with BPD is NOT a jigsaw puzzle to put together where if only you knew what the entire picture looked like then you could solve it. They are mentally ill people, not a problem to solve or a broken machine to fix. If you have any doubts, please go read the Staying board stories and see that there are plenty of people who are in failing relationships. Communication tools are not solutions and cures.

[Turkish]

Nicco, it's okay to have the feeling that you didn't work hard enough. That would make anybody feel bad in the aftermath of a breakup whether or not BPD is involved. You must also look at the facts: a relationship is a bond created by two people. You are not powerful enough to make her love you, solve her problems, or cure her BPD. That is a simple impossibility.

A person with BPD is NOT a jigsaw puzzle to put together where if only you knew what the entire picture looked like then you could solve it. They are mentally ill people, not a problem to solve or a broken machine to fix. If you have any doubts, please go read the Staying board stories and see that there are plenty of people who are in failing relationships. Communication tools are not solutions and cures.

I  feel like I've solved it,  and it's more like that puzzle box from Hellraiser.  it helps me keep in my mind to never let her recycle me,  never... .   though I  think there is a good chance of it  later. T  asked me that today,  and I  instantly said NO!

[Mutt]

During my r/s i knew pratically nothing about BPD so even less about right tools to menage it... . and thinking about the past,what happened,i figuered out that often i didn't validate her feelings in a properly way... . i tried on my way to comfort her but i did it wrong probably... . and happened,sometimes,that i was so desesperate by her incessant crying and the feeling that she was manipulating me with her behaviours that i raged at her... . or just did nothing... . i feel so awful and guilty for that  :'( i'll never forgive myself for my behaviours.

Nicco, your post are the same thoughts that I had a few months ago. I wished that I had validated her feelings and perhaps we would of still been together and I would of understood her better. I wished that I had found this board earlier and learn the tools.

I may of pushed the yard-stick out further for the inevitable end. I did the best that I could of done in a situation that I didn't understand. I wasn't the perfect husband and I'm not going to project myself on the ex, even though she can't defend herself. The fighting I did with her in the end was because I was defending myself, my psyche and my core beliefs. There were a lot of times that I wish that I had taken the high road, but this woman knew how to push my buttons like no other person. I got sucked in like many professionals, friends, family etc... .

Let's not be hard on ourselves for not understanding, trying to make something work that just can't and something that has an eventual demise.

I'm glad that I know what validation is now, I do use it on STBX from time to time to keep things smooth, but I use it more so on my kids.

[Learning_curve74]

I think one problem on our non-BPD side is denial. We are in denial that we are powerless to change our pwBPD. We do have power, but it's only the power to change ourselves and our reactions.

And another thing that many of us deny is that our pwBPD is both the "good" and the "bad" all rolled into one, not just a "good" person with "bad" habits. That somehow if we managed their "bad" habits we'd just be left with the "good" stuff.

In some ways it's a lot like being in a relationship with an alcoholic. You can take away their car keys, throw away all the alcohol, try to keep an eye on them 24/7, but you can never work hard enough to cure them or fix them because that's not in your power to do. The same is true of a person with BPD.

[Mutt]

This is a little different to the "good" and "bad" balance, but I recalled until the very end, hoping, yearning, missing and wishing that the pwBPD that I had met at the very beggining, idealization was going to show up again and give me attention, adulation and love. I think that I was denial in that context as well. I was ignoring all of the really bad behaviors and treatment and focused on that "good" fantasy to return. That wasn't realistic.

[goldylamont]

you know i never felt bad or had an ounce of regret about anything i said or did to my ex, and for that i am grateful. i just realize that the 'bad' things i said were said because i was defending myself and trying to stay above water. honestly i feel my ex *wanted* to hear this stuff. she *wants* to be treated this way to justify being who she is at her core, where there's a lot of dishonesty and toxicity.

after leaving the r/s i was a bit shook up and i thought that perhaps i had anger issues. and, well, i did have anger issues--in the context of being around an abusive manipulative woman. listen, getting you riled up and doing bad things is sport for pwBPD, they thrive off of it. so you have to give yourself a break.

as i got more seasoned dealing with her behaviors, i was able to deal with things more calmly. i was able to walk away more and not participate in arguments -- boy did being respectful on my part piss her the hell off! the whole point of her talking at that point was just to get me to react. so if i didn't react or even tried to be loving then she just got worse and worse to try and get a negative response.

me feel guilty? please she's gotten worse responses from plenty of people since we broke up. and i haven't treated anyone that bad since, even when arguing. i think the guilt you feel right now may be lessened if you think about how many men she's duped into feeling guilty like you--how many other good guys are out there thinking they could have done better by her? so many we don't want to think about it.

that does leave the fact that perhaps you said/did things that were out of character for you. and rightfully so you want to examine this stuff and forgive yourself; this is healthy. but guilt on her part? that's for the birds my man. to me it sounds less like guilt and more like the last stages of detachment where you may be clinging to the idea that she isn't what she is. she is.

[Nicco]

Thanks all for the answers.

I'll just a lil bit of time to read everything and reply... . plus since i live in Italy so in a different time zone we live,work,sleep,whatever on different times :D

[maxen]

you know i never felt bad or had an ounce of regret about anything i said or did to my ex, and for that i am grateful. i just realize that the 'bad' things i said were said because i was defending myself and trying to stay above water. honestly i feel my ex *wanted* to hear this stuff. she *wants* to be treated this way to justify being who she is at her core, where there's a lot of dishonesty and toxicity.

after leaving the r/s i was a bit shook up and i thought that perhaps i had anger issues. and, well, i did have anger issues--in the context of being around an abusive manipulative woman. listen, getting you riled up and doing bad things is sport for pwBPD, they thrive off of it. so you have to give yourself a break.

as i got more seasoned dealing with her behaviors, i was able to deal with things more calmly. i was able to walk away more and not participate in arguments -- boy did being respectful on my part piss her the hell off! the whole point of her talking at that point was just to get me to react. so if i didn't react or even tried to be loving then she just got worse and worse to try and get a negative response.

me feel guilty? please she's gotten worse responses from plenty of people since we broke up. and i haven't treated anyone that bad since, even when arguing. i think the guilt you feel right now may be lessened if you think about how many men she's duped into feeling guilty like you--how many other good guys are out there thinking they could have done better by her? so many we don't want to think about it.

that does leave the fact that perhaps you said/did things that were out of character for you. and rightfully so you want to examine this stuff and forgive yourself; this is healthy. but guilt on her part? that's for the birds my man. to me it sounds less like guilt and more like the last stages of detachment where you may be clinging to the idea that she isn't what she is. she is.

very helpful post.