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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: no cure for BPD  (Read 4396 times)
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 01:50:13 PM »

No cure for a personality.

The hope for one is really reaching for most of us. I was bargaining and rationalizing staying in the most toxic r/s of my life... because early on it filled a need I wasn't aware I had... but that was quite temporary.

Often thought that if only she wasn't BPD... we could be together... and things along those lines... but its all fantasy.

My pwBPD had a long line of guys before/after me... both times I dated her, though I had 25 or so years between times. If she wasn't BPD... she probably would have been stable with someone else in the first place, or found someone else.

In the same vein... if they had a "cure"... presumably not a pill... maybe fantastic therapy... how long would it take and what are the chances the person would still be with us? I was painted black so bad so many times... . a normal person would be embarrassed to face me. We trigger them... so getting better might require them to be apart from us.

All in all... we know it is their personality, perhaps a few can change, most don't accept responsibility for anything, don't follow through on much, can't keep a close r/s with anyone (therapist long term... doubtful)... and all that adds up to most BPD people are going to continue being that way for quite some time, and the nature of the disorder makes it foolish to just wait around till it gets better, if you are on the toxic end of it.

I would love to have a hot looking gal that attended to me like my pwBPD did during the first idealizing phase... but a good partner has their own life and interests and has boundaries and is real... . not playing make believe like our pwBPD seems to have been in hindsight.

There isnt a cure for BPD... . there is prevention for it... . great parenting... . and it is far too rare.
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2014, 02:01:21 PM »

There isn't a cure for a person's personality as of yet... . no surprise.

Exactly. A "cure" would be a total re-construction of the personality.

When push comes to shove I'm not sure if that's desirable for either the BPD person or the partner.

I think we can sometimes have the wrong expectations on treatment. We met and (hopefully) fell in love with a BPD partner. Why do we think that we know what the person is like without the BPD, and why do we think that we would will love and want to live with that person?
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2014, 02:11:39 PM »

I agree with you Mazda. They are not victims and enjoy hurting other people. They don't feel pain the same way we do.they don't get hurt like us. I've got no sympathy for them neither. They are waste of space.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2014, 02:40:00 PM »

Wow I really screwed that up... . This was my post.

I am divorced as of 3 years ago August.  My xgf was also part of this fiasco.  During this time and after the f#cked up relationship with my xgf (which I deserve in some ways), I sure learned a lot about myself…about what is important, what is crap, and how to cope with stress.  I almost let this situation destroy my life…and my health.  During this time too, I ran from just about every woman I was involved with…clearly still being affected by this experience.  I also was ANGRY…especially at myself (like heeltoheal) about letting her do this to me.  I LET her…There were red flags screaming the whole time that this was a bad thing for me…but I ate it like candy.  I started to believe that this was normal for a woman to act this way…I rolled up everything I knew about myself and became a fulltime firefighter.  I lost interest in everything I loved…I forgot how to have fun.  I looked at the floor and my shoes a lot too…

I sure won’t be going back to that…I learned that life can exist outside of that abusive relationship…and I am a better person now.  I know now WHAT I want from a woman too…I know what is important in a woman…and won’t settle for less. 

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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2014, 02:52:26 PM »

Quote from: Pearl55 link=topic=218166.msg12379872#msg12379872390335099
I agree with you Mazda. They are not victims and enjoy hurting other people. They don't feel pain the same way we do.they don't get hurt like us. I've got no sympathy for them neither. They are waste of space.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization here Pearl.  i don't think it is anywhere as simple as "they enjoy hurting people". I don't believe seeing them as purely victims is accurate either, but to suggest that they just  get their rocks off by causing other people pain is about as much of a simplification as explaining the composition and structure of the sun as being yellow and hot.

Try and remember back to when you were a child (I know it is hard, I am 20 and struggle). When a friend or anyone did something that you perceived as wronging you, it felt good to get even. You get hit, you hit back. Someone calls  you a mean name, you call them a mmean name. Ultimately the only way you felt better about being wronged was seeing them wronged, whether by you or other forces. PwBPD may be physically and intellectually adults, but emotionally are still children. They never grew or changed those patterns that we all had as children. As icing on the cake, PwBPD often suffer great fear of abandonment, which can be triggered by nearly ANYTHING. maybe they thought your tone of voice indicated you were upset with them or tired of them. BOOM. they are triggered and do the only thing they know how to; hit back, whether that be silent treatment, cheating, acting on impulses, or whatever other maladaptive coping mechanism.

I'm not saying treat them like victims. I did for a long time and I got hurt even worse for it. But it is taking the easy road to simply say "they enjoy hurting people." don't get me wrong, I think mybBPDex is a terribly hitty person. But she is just doing what she knows. Saying that they enjoy  what they do implies they are 100% consciously aware of it and choosing to do it.
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2014, 03:09:11 PM »

@october... . it's a generalisation and is not always true, but it is at times.  The push dynamic of relationships is when the borderlines are intending to hurt you.  They say and do things they know will hurt to push you away.  They do that on purpose.  Every time they hurt us it is not intentional, but there are times when the sole purpose of their mistreatment is to hurt.

Also,  I love how sympathy is evoked by saying they are emotionally childlike... . especially the high functioners.  My ex was a high functioner, and he knew how to behave and treat people, as he did that with others.  When I saw him verbally abuse me and then turn around and talk to the people on the next table as if we were a happily engaged couple I saw how calculated it all was.  When he would verbally abuse me in our language on the phone and break off to greet this colleagues as if he was having a normal conversation I saw how calculated the abuse was.  He was aware, he chose to speak to me that way.  Triggered or not, they know what is acceptable and what is not when they are high functioning.  So no, sorry, he is not childlike.  He is just a douchebag.
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« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2014, 03:24:47 PM »

I love the accountability in this thread.

One of the coolest sayings I saw was on Personal Inventory - ucmeicu2 said it... .

"I was a volunteer, not a victim".

From my understanding , I don't know that it matters the debate if BPD has it's cure. Or if the pioneers in the field, like Linehan and Aguirre, are simply wasting their time and effort. Smiling (click to insert in post)

The question still remains in how we found ourselves in these relationships and why we stayed as long as we did. For me, being treated badly was actually more comfortable then being treated well. It's kinda similar to the disordered souls who feel more at peace in admist chaos, because the quiet makes self reflection imminent... . and self reflection makes you face your own shortcomings which is far too painful for someone with little to no self worth.

Instead just being honest with ourselves - figuring out why I let so much of the crap go just to feel like I mattered. With my best kept secret in thinking I didn't deserve any better.

Excerpt
There are many who seek an answer to this question in the hopes of hearing there IS a cure, so that they might fulfill their fantasy of someday working out a relationship with their BPDex.

There are others (I am lumped in here) who seek an answer to this question in the hopes of hearing there IS NOT a cure, so they (we) might feel secure in the fact that our BPDex's will continue their destructive patterns, thus validating that WE DID NOT CAUSE them to cheat, to lie, and whatever other hurtful things they have done to us.

There might be a rare third group, those who are TRULY detached, and who want the answer to this question to be "Yes", so that their BPDex's might have a hope of living a happy and fulfilled life with someone else.  I think the number of those in this group is TINY compared to the others, and I would seriously ask anyone who claims to belong here if they GENUINELY feel this way, or if saying it just makes them feel better about belonging in one of the aforementioned categories.

 

This makes so much sense to me.  

If I'm honest though, there is a fluctuation between the second and third. He's had five children by five different women and put an ocean between all of us and him. He still is single, never been married, and so much drama encompasses him still. So I can't say how I'd feel if he got married, stayed faithful to his wife, and lived happily ever after. Maybe I do take a little bit comfort in that he can't find with anyone what he couldn't find with me. That's the little revenge demon in me piping in. I also think that has more to do with my son he left behind. It's easier to convince my boy that his dad not being a part of his life has nothing to do with him being worthy enough to have a dad.

I do wish him happiness though. Only because in this life, I think we all deserve that much.  
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« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2014, 03:45:41 PM »

Dreamgirl... .

Oh I take accountability alright, accountability for being a good person and trying my darnedest to be a good girlfriend and then fiancée.  Why did I stay?  To help him to alleviate his pain... . to stand by him and be loyal, like anyone should.  Why did I take the abuse? Well, when I was in the relationship, my response would have been, what abuse?  Oh, I deserved everything!  I was the crazy person with my DIAGNOSED and IN TREATMENT bipolar.  Why didn't I call the police when he punched me? Oh right, because he knew someone who had bipolar who called the police so I must've crazy bipolar if I did that too!  Why did I deserve to be raped? Oh right, I'm a loose woman! Of course! Only been with guys I have been in love with but of course that makes me amoral!  And oh, I called his best friend when he was treating me in an unacceptable manner so that he could talk thim... . oh my oh my... . I involved others in our problems!  I'm such a bad person for doing that!

The problem is, when you are told something over and over with such conviction, you start to believe it.  You believe the twisted logic that is thrown at you constantly, those underhand comments and undermining words penetrate deep into you, while the push pull confuses you to the point of breaking.  And then, wham! Mr perfect is back again, just as you were about to run away! Oh hell, lure me back in.  What's that? Oh I'm the most amazing thing to have ever existed?  You never thought you would find love like ours? Oh take me now! Wham! More confusion!

So yeah, abuse? What abuse? It was only until a stranger pointed out that what she witnessed was abuse that my eyes were opened.  I mean, before that, everything he said had a backup argument.  I'm an embarrassment to my parents? Well, I argue with my mother so I must be!

I seriously dislike the whole argument of having issues yourself.  What kept us in these relationships was compassion, love, sympathy, empathy, loyalty.  All good things to have.  For me and most others, we didn't realise it was abuse and when we did, the above GOOD qualities kicked in.  I mean, who on this board went into this relationship saying they wanted to be abused?

As for volunteers and not victim.  Oh I voluntarily went into this relationship for sure... . I voluntarily fell in love with the man of my dreams.  But I didn't volunteer to be played with, toyed, used and abused and so confused that I didn't even realise it.  I didn't volunteer to be part of the BPD game, I was duped into playing and I was a victim while I was in it.

Yes, I need to change some things.  I learnt a lot.  Mainly, I'm a great person to be in a relationship with.  That loyalty and love and all that good stuff will make me an amazing partner.  What I need to change is make sure the guy who is the recipient is worthy of it.
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« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2014, 04:05:44 PM »

Mazda...

We all seriously dislike the argument of having issues ourselves... . I fought the idea for about 50 years. Was sure that having a malignant NPD dad and what I now know was a waif BPD mom... . had no real effect on me.  Wish it were true but it isn't.

When you are a baby up to maybe 5 yrs old... what you experience in your family is what you consider "love"... and you respond to people that act like your folks. Its something I really wish wasn't true... but it is. My pwBPD didn't seem at all like my mother... she was expressive, passionate, effervescent even. However it turned out she was BPD... just acting out instead of acting in.

Read a book called "Healing Developmental Trauma"... and hated it... kind of turned my stomach almost. It was so true it made me cringe... . explained how attachment works in kids, and how it can go wrong... and when it does... how ego defenses work to define the personality. Well... when you list out all the traits in yourself you are most proud of... . then read about how they tend to be false compensations for your shortcomings... it is hard to accept.

The idea that we are perfectly fine and the pwBPD was all the problem is easy to accept... . but really healthy people... . tend to be with other really healthy people... and they tend to heed the  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  that we didn't from our pwBPD. What kind of people make you feel strong sparks of attraction? If it is someone with a disorder (BPD)... . and you have a FOO with issues, like most the people I know do... then facing up to the possibility of having issues yourself... may take more courage than you have left after the BPD r/s.

Most of us that have been in the intense badness of a BPD r/s... . didn't quietly take 100% of the abuse ... . we actively participated in the arguments, we responded with JADEs to the barbs and attacks... and we had to consider at times if we were the disordered one in the r/s. Chances are we were 1/2 of the r/s... and part of the problem.  I took a bunch of personality and psych tests... and didn't test as disordered... however on the schema inventories... had a lot of little quirks/fleas/baggage... . whatever you want to call it. If you piled it all up I suspect it is close enough to a disorder to make my pwBPD a likely partner.  My issues are smaller, easier to address, I own them and am working on them... my pwBPD... . never has and probably never will.

You are fighting a very uphill losing battle trying to change your partner... . its tough enough to work on your own issues... but it takes some guts and insight to realize you have issues.

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« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2014, 04:12:04 PM »

Also,  I love how sympathy is evoked by saying they are emotionally childlike... . especially the high functioners.  My ex was a high functioner, and he knew how to behave and treat people, as he did that with others.  When I saw him verbally abuse me and then turn around and talk to the people on the next table as if we were a happily engaged couple I saw how calculated it all was.  When he would verbally abuse me in our language on the phone and break off to greet this colleagues as if he was having a normal conversation I saw how calculated the abuse was.  He was aware, he chose to speak to me that way.  Triggered or not, they know what is acceptable and what is not when they are high functioning.  So no, sorry, he is not childlike.  He is just a douchebag.

That behavior is boundary busting. It's trampling over boundaries that define working relationships--acting out. In a functional relationship with a pwBPD, the disordered person chooses to adhere to boundaries. They're relatively consistent--though curing the disorder, as in a panacea that permanently engineers an ordered personality remains highly unlikely.

Maladaptive coping tools, fill needs that soothe pain. Cognizance about those needs exist within the pwBPD, shame too. Those poor coping tools cause nons a great deal of heartache--though the dilemma remains that there aren't a great many healthy coping tools which provide them with the same self-soothing rush, excitement, drama and validation that the maladaptive ones do. They wind up censoring those needs by closeting them away, thereby managing impulses to act out--or they don't.

The quandary when in a relationship with a pwBPD is how to develop a symbiotic beneficial arrangement that replicates fulfilling their esoteric needs in a healthy manner, while still (for the non) having their needs met too. It's an arcane process fraught with pitfalls. For those pwBPD who are able to maintain boundaries within a relationship, they often remain in a detached protector mode--which basically is the equivalent of a ticking time-bomb--they explode, relapse via acting out. People with BPD obviously aren't ideal candidates to expect perfect consistent boundaries from. When we state "cure," that perhaps is a grandiose wish, but practically speaking maybe we mean "successful relationship." IMO, the best one can hope for are long periods of stability with intermittent relapses. Therefore  (I truly wish it was otherwise for those married w children), IMO pwBPD are not sound investments for marriage and children. 
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« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2014, 04:12:19 PM »

Mazda,

I wouldn't reduce anyone's experience of what they've been through... . and you've been thru a lot.  :'(

For the lot of us, there is a certain kind of psychological misfire that keeps us in these relationships. For me, my NPD traited father (and my passive mother) modeled what a relationship was supposed to look like. My own boundaries being shattered in childhood also played a pretty big part. My boundaries were awful for a really long time because well, I didn't have a good model or think I was allowed to even have them. I still struggle and it's still a battle of what is OK and what is not OK.

So when I say accountability, it isn't about denying what happened to me (my own victimization), it's my seeing how I participated, even if unknowingly at the time, and learning to move forward. Make a change. Find peace. Value myself more. Have better boundaries.  

That's kinda what it sounds like what you're doing when you say What I need to change is make sure the guy who is the recipient is worthy of it.

You didn't deserve it, no.

Neither did I. None of us do. From a more clinical standpoint, for me, it just helped knowing that it kinda made sense that I chose someone that didn't have the capability to love me in an unselfish way.  

It's all I knew.
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« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2014, 04:25:06 PM »

Thanks charred and conundrum and dream girl,

I am in a seriously angry venting mode today so ugh... . can't find a good thing to say about my ex.

Absolutely issues with me in terms of why I didn't even acknowledge the red flags... . it wasn't that I didn't see them, or ignored them, I literally didn't even have them register on my radar because I was so blinded with love!  I have a good upbringing with great parents, but I unfortunately met a very smart, extremely manipulative high functioning who knocked me for six.  In all my treatment and group therapy for bipolar in all these years, I never knew that such a sadistic illness existed.  In my naïveté, I just didn't know a person could treat another person this way.  I guess in a way I was lucky that i have only come across decent people.

Well, I'm wiser now.  I've worked with my therapist to untangle what was me, what was him and what was fleas.  I've educated myself as to what abuse is and I will never again be oblivious to it.  And I have worked on my image of what love really is.  Mutual care, respect, trust, compromise, validation and acceptance.  No more fairytales and Prince Charming fighting through to solve all my problems, kiss me and live happily ever after.  No no, my happily ever after will come from within.  His favourite fairytale was beauty and the beast... . how fitting!
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« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 07:23:12 PM »

This topic is discussed a lot on these boards, but an interesting thought occurred to me as I read this thread: I think people are curious about there being a cure for BPD for more than one reason.

There are many who seek an answer to this question in the hopes of hearing there IS a cure, so that they might fulfill their fantasy of someday working out a relationship with their BPDex.

There are others (I am lumped in here) who seek an answer to this question in the hopes of hearing there IS NOT a cure, so they (we) might feel secure in the fact that our BPDex's will continue their destructive patterns, thus validating that WE DID NOT CAUSE them to cheat, to lie, and whatever other hurtful things they have done to us.


There might be a rare third group, those who are TRULY detached, and who want the answer to this question to be "Yes", so that their BPDex's might have a hope of living a happy and fulfilled life with someone else.  I think the number of those in this group is TINY compared to the others, and I would seriously ask anyone who claims to belong here if they GENUINELY feel this way, or if saying it just makes them feel better about belonging in one of the aforementioned categories.

My ex was something of a rarity on these boards in that she was both diagnosed and had also undergone therapy, and was in therapy, when I was with her.  She was undergoing DBT, and she has at least a year of it under her belt (she is almost 23).  She still was dating 3 guys at once while with me (unbeknownst to me of course).  After me, she was dating two at once, and got engaged to one 2 months after meeting him.  They are now split and she is with someone new.

So, no, going to therapy doesn't ensure a fix.  As mentioned, the person has to really want it.  They really want it by hitting rock bottom.  My ex has hit what would be rock bottom for so many other people, and keeps trucking.  Who knows.

hit the nail on the head Octoberfest. i can't really add any more other than to say you put my feelings into words exactly.

regarding others posting about whether their BPDSO is conscious of what they are doing, or if they purposefully hurt others--for me i think it's pretty obvious that they know what they are doing some of the time. sure they may forget lies they told or tell so many they get mixed up in them. they also may do many things without meaning to hurt at all. but to me it's a bit naive to say that pwBPD *never* do things intentionally or purposefully; or that whenever they do something horrific to you it's b/c they feel abandoned. for me it was a great realization to understand how conscious my ex was of some of her behaviors as this validated that i was not crazy for feeling the way that i felt (manipulated/punished). if you feel like you were being treated a certain way then trust this feeling over any other explanation absolving the pwBPD from responsibility due to their disorder.


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« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 11:03:10 PM »

Honestly we could argue about the possibility of treatments, the success rates, the sometimes miracle BPD's that supposedly turn their lives around, the new technology and treatments that are said to be on the way, etc, etc... . but again, like some have said,   NONE of that means a freaking hill of beans IF the BPD refuses to go, which is unfortunately the case for the majority of BPD's. 
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« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2014, 01:13:04 AM »

I'd have to say I'm in the rare group of people who actually believe in a "cure" and I'm happy about it because I want my ex to be happy.

It comes from my own life experience.  I was raped repeatedly as a child and neglected in serious ways, emotionally, physically, and spiritually for the course of my life.  One of my ex girlfriends from college accused me of being BPD.  In truth, I don't know, but from a young age, I knew I was different.  I've always felt different, messed up in the head, and I still do.  I'm still trying to work it out.

What I can say of my experience:

Five years ago, I couldn't imagine admitting to anyone outside of my therapist that I was terribly abused.

Four years ago, I couldn't imagine admitting to my parents that I was abused.

Three years ago, I couldn't imagine confronting my parents about the total lack of truthfullness and accountability in my life.

Two years ago, I couldn't imagine being in a relationship that combined real physical and emotional intimacy.

One year ago, I stood and forgave my two primary abusers.

Now, I've done all these things, and much much more.  Granted, I still feel unlovable at my core, I am working on it every day... . And therein lies the "cure" in my eyes.

I can never change the fact that I was raped and neglected.  I can never get back my childhood. 

I can be aware of how those things impact me today. 

For instance, today at work, I asked my boss a question and I realized immediately after I sounded like a child asking his dad for validation.

I firmly believe that healing from trauma based mental illness is fully possible.  I have to.  My life depends on it. 

And I know, it is a life's work, but I get a little closer each day and I'm happy about that.

As to how this relates to my ex, I am an emotional sponge, and I looked right past all of her defense mechanisms to see the beautiful, scared little girl behind the big scary girl mask.  I guess its one of the advantages of realizing from childhood that literally anyone can hit you and to always be on the look out.  I can read people like text.

So when we broke up the first time, I sent her a letter telling her I hoped she figures her stuff out so that she can be happy with someone.  That she deserved happiness, and I was sad for her issues.  I never EVER expected to talk to her after that.  6 months later after much much more drama... . I hate how she treated me.  AND I still love her and want the best for her, even if that's not with me, as much as my pride and ego try to hate that statement. 

That's why I'm so sad.  That's the hardest part of letting go for me.  Letting go of the notion that this relationship disintegration was not all my fault.  That I didn't destroy it or self sabotage all by my self.  That our combined poor coping skills have left us at a virtual impasse.

I demand rigorous honesty, integrity, and accountability in myself and those I surround myself with.  I only ever wanted to be a support for her.  Part of me knew it wouldn't last because I just didn't think she was that interested in me from the get go.  Part of that is low self esteem.  Another part is reality.  I could tell she was bending and twisting herself, but I didnt know how or why.  So from the beginning, I was okay with the fact that she may not be "mine" and that my role in her life would likely be as a friend.

Looking back now, that may have been the single biggest trigger for her.  My detached love from her.  It was like she couldn't stand it.  How could I love her if I wasn't "one" with her?  How could I love her if I didn't own her and abuse her as others did?

Oh well.

The long and the short of it:

I believe there is not a cure but a treatment of a chronic disease.  It takes a certain type of person and combination of events to get a person started on that path.  I truly hope this is the case because I do love her and I want her to be happy even if it is with someone else.  I really wish it was me(we made a great team), but I just don't believe I'm that important.  There are too many fish in the sea for me to be the only "one" for her... . she's made that blatantly and painfully obvious.

Ramble Ramble... . Rabble Rabble.  

Hope you are all well.

Blessings.
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« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 04:09:17 AM »

Question, your insight and accountability for what happened to you strongly suggest to me that you don't have BPD.  Just because a college ex says that, doesn't mean there is any truth in it.

Oh yes, they will go on to find the one who they are "one" with (oh boy did I hear that phrase a lot! ENMESHMENT).  I really, strongly suggest that you continue to educate yourself on BPD.

It in intrinsic, deeply engrained and for the most part, treatment resistant.

Why do you still care so much about your ex being better?  She abused you.  You don't deserve to be abused and you never did.  I think perhaps you should work on accepting that (I may be wrong and judging here, apologies but just the vibe I got from you).  Low self esteem is what feeds these people and keeps you stuck and ultimately, probably a big contributor to why you want this person to be happy.  After what they did to you, why are they entitled to happiness?  Again, I use the murderer example... . if someone was in jail for murder and showed no remorse (or fake remorse which is what I got to manipulate me and others) would you wish them a happy life?  I think something that needs to be understood is that a lot of prisoners have BPD.  It is an illness that makes them dangerous.  Sure, they are not all that bad, but they all have very damaging traits.  Unless they are taking ownership and in treatment for the carnage and destruction they cause others, they are selfish cowards that don't care about who they hurt to have their needs met.  

I have bipolar.  It's not hard to treat a mental illness.  You make an appointment and show up.  If you need medication, you pop a couple of pills, like millions of people do.  I fell for all of my exes excuses that it would be too painful etc etc... . from someone who has been undergoing therapy for 5 years, dealing with past trauma and abuse, it really isn't that hard.

Stop feeling sorry for your ex, educate yourself about BPD and read all the accounts of how our lives have been severely damaged by them indulging their selfish needs.  This community has so much collective pain and we are good people.  Focus that compassion on yourself as you are truly deserving of it.  

You cannot fix her.  That 6 months call? Recycling. 

I wanted to fix my ex.  I tried for 8 months to convince him to her professional help, even making appointments for him (which were never followed through).  After 8 months, guess what happened? He married my replacement.  Didn't even tell me, and the day before when I confronted him and asked him if he was getting married he didn't respond to that question (which was typical of him) and had the audacity to ask me if I still wanted him back!  Don't try helping them!  They are not worth it! They can only help themselves.  In the meantime help yourself and don't fall into the trap

I was stuck in for 8 months until I learnt a very painful lesson (yet again, thanks voldemort).
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Pearl55
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« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 04:31:44 AM »

They are CRAZY, Not mentally ill. Lack of knowledge and bad advice trapped people with these crazy people!
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« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2014, 07:43:55 AM »

In my case, I don't wish any ill will on her whatsoever... . regardless of how I feel about her atrocious behavior when it came to me.  I do feel sorry for the next dumb@ss that gets involved with her though... .

She is very sick, but I don't feel sorry for her either though because she chooses to not address it.  That's just sad to me... . sad that she is never going to be any better than she is now until she does.  :)o I lose sleep over it?  Sh!t no.  At this point it's no more sad than if it were a random person.  

The only thing I find myself left with is resentment... . some of it towards her, but a lot of it towards myself.  My behavior was atrocious too by just staying with her which was just further enabling her behavior... . Fighting fires that cannot be put out... . not by me, not by the guys she slept with... . not by her family.  No one.  But I certainly lit the fires because I was the trigger. Accountability?  That's where my accountability ended.  No one else on earth would have endured what I did to "make it work".  Continuing the toxic relationship when clearly I should have left her alone contributed to where I was... . but otherwise I don't feel any guilt for anything else... . because I never did the things she said I did.  Taking blame for bullsh!t is just that... . Bullsh!t

Do I wish her well in her life... . Of course I do.  I don't wish anything bad on anyone.  She has some really good qualities... . qualities that I loved in her.  If someone could succeed in making her happy and she could quit being so incredibly over the top insecure?  Great!  :)o I see it happening?  He11 no.  She's almost 40 years old.  She's pretty much the way she is now is the way she will probably be the rest of her life unless she accepts and gets some help.  Her past track record suggests that she will not do that.  I'm sure she will try to recycle me again in the future, but I would rather kill myself than live like that again.  No joke.  I'd rather be dead.  I had a nightmare once that I was back with her... . sleeping with her in the bed... . when I realized it was her it terrified me.  I woke up almost screaming... . in tears... . shaking.   I couldn't go back to sleep for about 6 hours I was so shook up... .   I know that meant that I was not just abused... . but traumatized by her for me to be that afraid of her.  So you can never go back to that!  There is no cure.  ... . and anyone that would go back to their BPD SO?  They are killing you... . so very slowly... .

   

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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 08:35:05 AM »

In my case, I don't wish any ill will on her whatsoever... . regardless of how I feel about her atrocious behavior when it came to me.  I do feel sorry for the next dumb@ss that gets involved with her though... .

She is very sick, but I don't feel sorry for her either though because she chooses to not address it.  That's just sad to me... . sad that she is never going to be any better than she is now until she does.  :)o I lose sleep over it?  Sh!t no.  At this point it's no more sad than if it were a random person.  

The only thing I find myself left with is resentment... . some of it towards her, but a lot of it towards myself.  My behavior was atrocious too by just staying with her which was just further enabling her behavior... . Fighting fires that cannot be put out... . not by me, not by the guys she slept with... . not by her family.  No one.  But I certainly lit the fires because I was the trigger. Accountability?  That's where my accountability ended.  No one else on earth would have endured what I did to "make it work".  Continuing the toxic relationship when clearly I should have left her alone contributed to where I was... . but otherwise I don't feel any guilt for anything else... . because I never did the things she said I did.  Taking blame for bullsh!t is just that... . Bullsh!t

Do I wish her well in her life... . Of course I do.  I don't wish anything bad on anyone.  She has some really good qualities... . qualities that I loved in her.  If someone could succeed in making her happy and she could quit being so incredibly over the top insecure?  Great!  :)o I see it happening?  He11 no.  She's almost 40 years old.  She's pretty much the way she is now is the way she will probably be the rest of her life unless she accepts and gets some help.  Her past track record suggests that she will not do that.  I'm sure she will try to recycle me again in the future, but I would rather kill myself than live like that again.  No joke.  I'd rather be dead.  I had a nightmare once that I was back with her... . sleeping with her in the bed... . when I realized it was her it terrified me.  I woke up almost screaming... . in tears... . shaking.   I couldn't go back to sleep for about 6 hours I was so shook up... .   I know that meant that I was not just abused... . but traumatized by her for me to be that afraid of her.  So you can never go back to that!  There is no cure.  ... . and anyone that would go back to their BPD SO?  They are killing you... . so very slowly... .

   

   Wow, ... . reading thru this, I thought that I wrote this, ... .
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2014, 09:03:20 AM »

Hello there, well, I agree there is no 'cure', but with enough compassion and therapy, recovery can occur! The thing is, it's better to be single for that therapy, to really look into the issues.

Some people are very difficult to treat, however, and if you meet someone like that, don't give them a chance. Nobody needs a narcissist in their life.

Towards the end of my time in the therapeutic community, it was very hard being surrounded by people who could not even empathise- and seeing glee on someone's face because you're upset is the worst thing I've ever experienced! And I was meant to be on the same side! You could instantly tell which ones were going to do well from therapy, and the ones who were just going to shut down even more and set out to ruin anyone they deemed happy.

Sadly, I'm on here because I think my husband might not get help, but I know that he's pretty insightful so hold out hope!

Also, can I add that although Borderline Personality Disorder is a problem involving personality, there will be some great aspects to their personality that may be masked by all the crap. Alas, it doesn't mean that someone just isn't a hateful, nasty prick! You can blame some things on insecurity and instability, but do you really need someone who will set out to ruin you and laugh when they see you suffer?
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shellsh0cked
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« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2014, 09:19:03 AM »

She gets a rise out of hurting someone... . when she's being nasty and raging... . but feels sorry and ashamed once she realizes what she has done and come off of her rage.  I feel like she probably feels bad about a lot of the events in June 2012... . but her pride would never allow her to do that... . I would appreciate an apology... . but I will never get it.  That would require me talking to her... . reopening old wounds... probably hearing some more rhetoric garbage about me flirting with her mom or children or some other nonsense that I refuse to be punished for anymore... . and opening old closed wounds... and I sure don't want to do that.
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halfnelson

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« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2014, 10:02:20 AM »

Well, I have apologised to people I felt I'd hurt, but some of them didn't seem that bothered. You don't need an apology, because you can't even guarantee it's genuine.

I guess some counselling would be good so you don't get bitter and pass that onto the next relationship. Break the cycle, look for the signs (before you get married like I did!), and when you meet someone who makes you forget all of the crap from the past, well, you'll have forgotten it all. And you'll just have some wonderful knowledge of this disorder, but without having to live inside it anymore.
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« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2014, 10:54:19 AM »

Again, without sounding mean or heartless, this very forum, with each one of us literally riddled with hurt, heartache, stress, etc, left in the wake of the aftermath of being with a pwBPD; exists because there is no cure to BPD where the person afflicted with such, presents themselves as a coherent and stable mono-personality to the non.
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« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2014, 10:57:32 AM »

People can overcome childhood abuse, do great things, live a full life... no doubt about it.

However the question was whether there is a cure for BPD... . a type of personality that is disordered... . and perhaps someday there will be, currently there isn't anything that is "a cure"... there are treatments like DBT... which most pwBPD are not in.

The question seems to be begging for hope that the pwBPD will get better... presumably in consideration of re-engaging with them.

If you want to go back, do so... but don't expect a cured personality any time soon with them.

I think an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure... . we know much of what causes BPD... and good parenting is the most positive change that would help prevent it (IMHO.)

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shellsh0cked
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« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2014, 11:05:35 AM »

Well, I have apologised to people I felt I'd hurt, but some of them didn't seem that bothered. You don't need an apology, because you can't even guarantee it's genuine.

I guess some counselling would be good so you don't get bitter and pass that onto the next relationship. Break the cycle, look for the signs (before you get married like I did!), and when you meet someone who makes you forget all of the crap from the past, well, you'll have forgotten it all. And you'll just have some wonderful knowledge of this disorder, but without having to live inside it anymore.

I'd apologize to her for staying involved with her when clearly all it served was to hurt her further.  But what she wants is an apology for a long list of accusations of things that never happened.  For that she will never get it, so she would probably be "fishing" for an apology by giving me one.  Well, I won't bite that hook because I know I did nothing of the sort, so she can carry the hatred to her grave.  Sad for her because it is all misplaced hatred due to her sickness.

I am already involved with a wonderful woman.  She is fantastic and everything that my old xgf was not.  She has been very huge in final steps in recovery.  I am actually not bitter towards women or future relationships.  I know that most women are NOT like my ex.  She once even tried to convince me that they were.  "You will find out... . most women are like me... . not other girls you have known like your ex-wife who is the exception".   She was wrong about that... . It was just a ploy to keep me from abandoning her.  I find that most women have lots of capacity to love, not be insanely jealous, or get their jollies by deliberately hurting you.  That there are ones that will keep their pants on too... . for everyone... . but me.    Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm mostly blowing off steam here... . Listening to what others say about it and helping where I can... . because if anyone understands how this affects a person it is me... .
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halfnelson

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« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2014, 01:00:32 PM »

Sorry, I didn't read enough about your relationship to realise you'd met someone now!

Hope you didn't think I was saying you actually were bitter and should definitely seek help. It's ok to be angry at people who waste your precious time.
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« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2014, 01:44:20 PM »

Marsha Linehan, the creator of DBT, the most effective treatment for managing BPD, had BPD herself. Also AJ Mahari, author of several books on the subject for nons and PDs alike, recovered from BPD. She has several excellent videos on youtube I recommend for understanding the subject better. I personally believe it is possible, but until PDs recover from their delial, there is little hope. Also their psychiatrists and clinicians need to be honest and less hesitant to make the diagnosis. Until they do, everyone suffers. And I hold them largely responsible for the broken r/s and families left behind.
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Findingmysong723
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« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2014, 02:52:58 PM »

Also AJ Mahari, author of several books on the subject for nons and PDs alike, recovered from BPD. She has several excellent videos on youtube I recommend for understanding the subject better. I personally believe it is possible, but until PDs recover from their delial, there is little hope.

I enjoy AJ Mahari posts, she is very informative and understands Nons because she was in a relationship with someone that was BPD and then of course she had BPD so can express the feelings she had and what her behavior was like and why!I enjoy reading both sides, it helped me to understand the situation I was in!
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« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2014, 03:51:57 PM »

Most of us are familiar with these three names: Marsha Linehan, AJ Mahari and Tami Green. These very rare exceptions just prove the rule: BPD is not curable!
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Pearl55
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« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2014, 06:44:59 PM »

Recovery is not possible. Two people you just mentioned so they weren't full blown borderlines if they truly recovered.
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