Told me she wanted me in her life - #1

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi All,

I posted about a week ago. I have been NC with my uxBPDgf. I broke up with her over a year and half ago. She has been trying to text me, call me and email me over the past 4 months (every couple of weeks) and I haven't responded. For some reason, I picked up last week (she always calls from blocked numbers and I figured it was her... . ). Anyhow, we talked for an hour. And I really, really missed her. She told me that I was her best friend in the whole world (weird because we haven't spoken in a year), asked me if I was dating anyone, and told me she wanted me in her life (we live in different cities).

Since we talked, I am soo conflicted. I don't feel great. I'm worried I'm going to allow myself to get sucked back in. I keep having this fantasy that we can be together and everything will be great. But, I don't know what she even wants. I'm afraid to ask. We have so much in common and would otherwise be a perfect match, except that I'm pretty sure she has BPD. Anyhow, it is scary. I hate this feeling. I was doing so well. Wasn't missing her as much anymore. Stopped thinking about her all the time. Was moving forward in life and doing great things.

Now I am so confused. Ug. I don't want to ask her what she wants because I really don't want to know. I don't want to ask her any probing questions. I just feel like no matter what, I'm going to get my heart broken again. Most people think that's weird because I left her but you all understand... . her behavior kind of left me no choice... . so much yelling and screaming and raging and blaming me every single time for it. I couldn't take it anymore. But it broke my heart and I haven't really truly been happy since. I've done some great things for sure but the recovery has been long. I feel like I'm slipping back into it again and I'm really worried.

Advice?

[willy45]

Hi All,

I posted about a week ago. I have been NC with my uxBPDgf. I broke up with her over a year and half ago. She has been trying to text me, call me and email me over the past 4 months (every couple of weeks) and I haven't responded. For some reason, I picked up last week (she always calls from blocked numbers and I figured it was her... . ). Anyhow, we talked for an hour. And I really, really missed her. She told me that I was her best friend in the whole world (weird because we haven't spoken in a year), asked me if I was dating anyone, and told me she wanted me in her life (we live in different cities).

Since we talked, I am soo conflicted. I don't feel great. I'm worried I'm going to allow myself to get sucked back in. I keep having this fantasy that we can be together and everything will be great. But, I don't know what she even wants. I'm afraid to ask. We have so much in common and would otherwise be a perfect match, except that I'm pretty sure she has BPD. Anyhow, it is scary. I hate this feeling. I was doing so well. Wasn't missing her as much anymore. Stopped thinking about her all the time. Was moving forward in life and doing great things.

Now I am so confused. Ug. I don't want to ask her what she wants because I really don't want to know. I don't want to ask her any probing questions. I just feel like no matter what, I'm going to get my heart broken again. Most people think that's weird because I left her but you all understand... . her behavior kind of left me no choice... . so much yelling and screaming and raging and blaming me every single time for it. I couldn't take it anymore. But it broke my heart and I haven't really truly been happy since. I've done some great things for sure but the recovery has been long. I feel like I'm slipping back into it again and I'm really worried.

Advice?

[santa]

However she acted before is how she'll act now. She'll probably be worse. You know she's mentally disturbed, so there's really no reason for you to be considering getting back with her. Your life is going to be a living hell if you do.

I know the fact it took you a long time to get over her and that you haven't had a meaningful relationship since is influencing how you feel about her. She's the cause of it though. She's crazy, made you crazy, and trauma bonded you into thinking your relationship was something special. You were essentially her punching bag for the duration of the relationship though. Has anyone raged at you since?

It would be foolish to enter a relationship with her again. You know she's awful. Don't put yourself in the same horrible situation that you just spent a year and a half getting out of.

[Tolou]

Willy... .

You left the first time because you reached a palce where you could tolerate, handle, the chaos and turmoil that was taking place in your life with this person.  You how long it has been since you have been seperated and you still have these emotions and feelings.  Could you imagine entering that relationship a 2nd time around going thru that all over again?  Why would  you want to do that to yourself or her?  No one can tell you what to do, maybe if this somethin gyou really want you need to ask yourself?  Why do I want to go back into something like?  Is that really love?  Is this person actively seeking help or therapy, do they have BPD, or BPD and something else?  You have come do far to move forward, you say, so then why move backwards again?  It sounds like you are very conflicted, but read peoples post about how many times they have been recycled over and over again, and when you take them back, without them having done any real work on themselves, the anti becomes higher and so do the stakes, for you , and them.  Be careful in your, thoughts, and actions.  Take sometime and remember the bad things and negative aspects you walked away, before you remember the good and happy, because you can find those things with a healthier person.

[LettingGo14]

Willy,

I am not an expert at anything other than recycling.  I am not sure I have good advice for you, but I have made a list for myself as to why my relationship with xBPDgf did not, and could not, work.   Sadly, after 4 years invested in it, I wanted it to work more than anything.   Before I found this community, I had no language to describe the push/pull drama and devastation of my addictive relationship.  Now, when I need to remind myself why I am on this board, detaching, I pull out this list.  Then, I turn the focus back on myself and the role I played.

1. I cannot rescue her from the disorder.  She has had 5 jobs in 4 years, two marriages, and more splits and triangles than I can count.

2. She has an ingrained approach to the world that creates drama and turmoil through:

--emotional dsyregulation, or an inability to see beyond how she feels in any given moment

--idealizing & devaluing people around her, including me  

--blaming and shaming others for her feeling states

--weak object constancy, or tremendous insecurity in relationships with others

--Triangulation others (victim, rescuer, persecutor)

When I was devalued, and painted black, and smeared, I felt so lost.   When I recycled, I felt moments of relief.  But, the cycle repeated.  And I remained in the FOG.

Now, I am on the detaching board in this community in order to face the facts, and take responsibility for myself.   I was a participant in the drama.   I fed off of it sometimes, and fed into it other times.

I miss her too, at times, because I felt a deeper connection with her than anyone else.  But, I need to ask myself why.  :)id I "need" the idealization?  Why was I enmeshed?  :)id I love when she mirrored me?   Why?

Trust your instincts Willy.  You said, you feel like "I'm going to get my heart broken again... . "  

You do have power here.  You have the ability to stop the "slipping" and assess the situation.   We're here for you.

Thanks for posting.

[woodsposse]

 

I can say that I have been right where you are - a few times.  Heck, one of the times I even married her.  Yeah, that didn't end entirely too well.  But then a few months after she left (mutual decision really), she came crashing back through the door saying all the "right things" that she had said before to woo her way back in, but I wasn't fully buying it this time.

Good thing too - because while she was wooing me, she was wooing others... . I was just a replacement.  My own replacement.  Momentary at best.  It was a difficult fight to get and stay detached... . but I got there.  Now I'm here.  On this board around people who understand exactly what I went through.

No one can tell you what to do.  But know this - you already know what would happen if you go back.

But this time it will be worse than it ever was.

The good thing is - you get to choose.  You always get to choose.  You will always get to choose.

Choose wisely. 

[letmeout]

However she acted before is how she'll act now. She'll probably be worse. You know she's mentally disturbed, so there's really no reason for you to be considering getting back with her. Your life is going to be a living hell if you do.

I know the fact it took you a long time to get over her and that you haven't had a meaningful relationship since is influencing how you feel about her. She's the cause of it though. She's crazy, made you crazy, and trauma bonded you into thinking your relationship was something special. You were essentially her punching bag for the duration of the relationship though. Has anyone raged at you since?

It would be foolish to enter a relationship with her again. You know she's awful. Don't put yourself in the same horrible situation that you just spent a year and a half getting out of.

This is the plain and simple truth, Santa you took the words right out of my mouth   

[willy45]

Yeah. You guys are right. This totally sucks. I want to ask her what she wants but I don't even trust that she knows what she wants. And I don't even know if I want to know what she wants. All I know is that I need to get out of this headspace.

[State85]

I've heard this before. "I want to be friends, I will be your best friend". Don't buy into that. Mine said the same thing. They just want you around as a source for when the current r/s goes south.

I bought into it once. She was not a friend... . she was mean, cruel, etc. The abuse continued even though I was supposedly her "best friend".

My exgf has kept all of her exes... . all of them. She won't let them go. It's either to use them later as a source, or the inability to detach from them, to continue to control them.

Watch your back... .

[seeking balance]

Yeah. You guys are right. This totally sucks. I want to ask her what she wants but I don't even trust that she knows what she wants. And I don't even know if I want to know what she wants. All I know is that I need to get out of this headspace.

What she wants will change often and be very convincing in the moment she says it - it is part of the disorder.

If you need headspace, take it.

[corraline]

The ex's

I witnessed an interesting thing once

I was on holiday with my ex and he had an email come thru from an ex stating she was getting married

His reaction was over the top

He went into despair claiming he was worried for her life since the guy was supposed to b crazy and very unhealthy for her

I still thought it was weird... he lay on the bed in the hotel room and was very down.

Then after i questioned the odd reaction he gave me the reason why as i mentioned then eventually perked up saying he needed to focus on what he had now in his life and not worry about her.

When i hear the previous posts on this im getting more clarity about that event

I listened to alot of ex stories.  I felt like i was having a relationship with them too

He couldnt let them go

[ScotisGone74]

Sheesh- the lines they use are eerily similar.     Mine too said she will 'always be my best friend'  as she rode off to be engaged to the new Mr tomdickharry while I'm left standing wondering what the hell just happened.      With a 'friend' like that who needs enemies?     She's not a friend.    She really never was one.    She was only trying to fill the need in that bottomless pit.       

My question to you is what does she want you in her life for now?      Focus on that

[willy45]

Yeah. That's a great point. I guess that is what I'm trying to figure out. What she said to me on the call was:

1) You are my best friend in the whole world

2) Are you seeing anyone right now? (to which I said none of your business... . I didn't ask her)

3) I would love to see you

4) I want to hang out with you

5) I have been thinking about you for three months and can't get you out of my mind

6) I will never find anyone who understands me like you do

That was the gist of it. Pretty heavy stuff for not having spoken in a year. The last time I spoke to her I said: Don't call me. I have let you take too much from me and I'm not letting you take any more. That was about 14 months ago. No mention of that on the call.

Ug. This makes me want to cry and curl up into a ball in the corner. I'm not sure why I care what she is trying to say. I  think part of it is not understanding what is going on and it is making my mind and heart hurt. I love her with all my heart. We are perfect for each other in every way. Except for the abuse. And I'm not willing to take the abuse anymore. I have no idea if she has gotten councilling (I doubt it). I have no idea what's going on in her personal life. I have no idea what she is trying to tell me, what she is looking for. I have no idea. It is making me ill.

[ScotisGone74]

Well it sounds like you are trying to seperate her and how compatible you were together from the abuse.     But they are one and the same.     The abuser is her.    The person you loved and had some great times with is also her.    There is no seperating those two.   

Also you may want to be mindful of how much information you divulge to her.    It doesn't sound like she is providing much in return.     Maybe you need to start asking her some questions instead if you truly want a possible relationship with her.    If not you need start limiting contact now.   

[Skip]

Since we talked, I am soo conflicted. I don't feel great. I'm worried I'm going to allow myself to get sucked back in. I keep having this fantasy that we can be together and everything will be great. But, I don't know what she even wants. I'm afraid to ask.

Willy,

Look at this guy: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=113820.0

Look at this guy: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=146987.msg1427871#msg1427871

One saved his relationship and lives a good life (with a diagnosed pwBPD) and one has many failed recycles.

What the difference?

One found his contribution to the relationship problem and fixed it. He was then in a better place to evaluate his relationship.  When he decided it was worth trying again, he was a changed man and lead the change in the relationship.  She changed too.  They both worked hard and found a way.

Forget about her for a moment and let's look at you.  Have you done the relationship postmortem and the personal inventory to have a better handle on this?

When a relationship ends with somebody that you love, you have to process that (see Detachment leads to Freedom in the right margin).

You may just be running from it and yourself.

You're not going to be able to deal with her or anyone else until you break this down - do the work - learn who you are in a relationship.

We can't know (member's here) know if the problem was just bad relationship skills both ways, or her, or you, or... .   We don't even know if she has serious BPD traits.  We don't how healthy you are. Your old relationship may be salvageable - or a hopeless abyss.

But the one thing that comes through is that you still have to process this- your have work to do before you can move on to someone else or to effectively evaluate the past relationship and its chance for success.

You both still have feelings.  You both have a history of conflict.  If nothing has changed on either side, you can expect more of the same.

[corraline]

Skip

That post speaks volumes too me anyhow

Thank you

[woodsposse]

Yeah. That's a great point. I guess that is what I'm trying to figure out. What she said to me on the call was:

1) You are my best friend in the whole world

2) Are you seeing anyone right now? (to which I said none of your business... . I didn't ask her)

3) I would love to see you

4) I want to hang out with you

5) I have been thinking about you for three months and can't get you out of my mind

6) I will never find anyone who understands me like you do

That was the gist of it. Pretty heavy stuff for not having spoken in a year. The last time I spoke to her I said: Don't call me. I have let you take too much from me and I'm not letting you take any more. That was about 14 months ago. No mention of that on the call.

Ug. This makes me want to cry and curl up into a ball in the corner. I'm not sure why I care what she is trying to say. I  think part of it is not understanding what is going on and it is making my mind and heart hurt. I love her with all my heart. We are perfect for each other in every way. Except for the abuse. And I'm not willing to take the abuse anymore. I have no idea if she has gotten councilling (I doubt it). I have no idea what's going on in her personal life. I have no idea what she is trying to tell me, what she is looking for. I have no idea. It is making me ill.

I have heard the exact same thing - almost word for word. 

For the most part, that is how every recycle started.  I think I allowed it all those times because I thought the same thing you are thinking... . "I love her with all my heart" and things were fine between us... . until they weren't.

Unfortunately the not good times grew and grew and grew.  When, in reality - they shouldn't have ever gotten as big as they did.  Yes, a r/s takes two people. Not trying to put the  blame just on her or the disorder.  I had to have wanted it.

But  now that I know the true cost... . I'll pass.

[DownandOut]

Willy -

What you just wrote could be my last reunion with my uBPDexgf. "I want you in my life." "You're my best friend." "Are you dating anyone?" All the same exact things I heard. I gave in. Same result. I know how you feel because 7 months NC I still dream about her calling me. She hasn't and probably won't and that's probably better for me, but I still want it. I'm sure that's the way you feel right now, but just based on the past, I know nothing will change. Be as strong as you can my friend. Good luck.

[willy45]

Hi All,

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful posts. Skip, I really appreciate your time and effort on your reply. It has shed a lot of light on my thinking. If you will indulge me, here is a response.

I did a TON of work on myself since we broke up. I went to a T for about 6 months and worked through a lot of issues. My main ones that I have found the most challenging were learning how to 1) respect my own boundaries; and 2) validate my sense of reality and right/wrong. I have seen huge changes in my life as a result. I have been able to implement these in my work life and in other relationship contexts and I have found it has made an enormous difference. I was always the 'fixer', trying to fix everyone else's emotional states. With my ex, that was my role. She would flip out on me or about something else and I would try to fix it. I would try to see what I had done 'wrong' and try to change it. I would take on that hurt and pain and try to relieve it as an equal partner in the relationship. What I have learned was that trying to fix it was the thing that hurt it the most. Instead of standing my ground, I would go into a huge funk because I wouldn't be able to fix it, take on all the guilt and shame and anger, which would make things worse.

So, in that really hard work, yes. I can truly say I am a changed man. And I'm not willing to go back. I have been able to accomplish some extraordinary things.

Now, as for her? I have no idea. I guess I have my hopes up that she has done the same. But, I truly doubt it. I think my fear and my confusion and my anxiety is that I have done this work and been able to implement it in every other facet of my life. And this is a big test. Have I changed enough to ask her these questions? Have I changed enough to trust my own instincts to draw boundaries if I don't like hearing the answers? That's a big test. Am I up for it? I don't know. I guess I will have to give it some more thought.

But, thank you so much for this post. This was really, really helpful. It made me realize that the anxiety and fear I am feeling is much less about her and much more about not feeling secure enough to trust my own judgement.

I am 95% sure that I won't hear anything from her to make me feel safe. I am 99% sure she hasn't done any work on herself. But, I don't really know. I guess the fear I have is that I won't be able to discern for myself.

So, again, if you would indulge... . Do these seem like acceptable boundaries?

1) If she hasn't done any work on herself then it is no deal.

2) If she is seeing anyone else or has just broken up with someone, it is no deal.

3) If she can explain to me why she would rage at me without blaming me entirely or the situation, it is no deal.

4) If she just wants to be my 'best friend', it is no deal (as I have no idea what that would actually mean in real life)

What would be acceptable to me is:

1) If she answers these questions truthfully and she has done the work, I would be willing to have another conversation about it.

2) If she just wants to be 'friends', then I would find a catch up call or email ok once every 6 months with very strict boundaries around the content of those conversations.

Just reading this makes me laugh a bit because I know that any of this is very unlikely.

Thanks again. I feel a million times better.

[willy45]

Hi All,

Just thought I would check in today. I had contact with my uexBPDgf last week. I'm pretty sure it was a recycle attempt but I don't have any more clarity on that at all.

Part of me is still living in a dream world were she has done extensive work on herself over the past 1.5 years and would be a suitable partner for me and we can live happily ever after. That part of my brain is working overdrive. But, the anxiety about it has gone for the most part. Thanks to Skip and his previous post, I was able to ground myself again and define what my boundaries are. I realized that my anxiety and my body was telling me to be scared, that this person was capable of destroying me and that I should be careful. At the same time, my mind was filling up with the 'happily ever after' fantasy. But I think the anxiety was being caused by not trusting how I have grown over the past 1.5 years and all the work I have done to be able to establish good boundaries for myself and to view my own reality and my own ability to make choices as being important. I now feel much more at ease with the fact that my mind is creating these fantasies. If they don't come true, I know that it will be because of MY choice to not engage in any way if things haven't changed on her end.

What did she mean when she said 'I won't find someone who understands me like you do', 'Are you dating someone right now', 'You are my best friend in the whole wide world', 'I want you in my life', 'I value and cherish our friendship'. What does she mean? Who the h*ll knows? All I can do is ask and evaluate for myself and trust that I can say 'no' to whatever makes me uncomfortable. And all I can do is trust myself that I know what is best for me.

So, I guess I have decided to find out. To ask her. I'm sure I will be hurt by her answer. But, I don't feel anxiety about that either. I left her for a good reason. She was abusive with me. And I am not willing to let that happen again, whether she is feeling me out for a new partnership or a new friendship.

That's all. Perhaps I am delusional at this point. We will find out!

Thanks.

[free-n-clear]

What did she mean when she said 'I won't find someone who understands me like you do', ... . 'You are my best friend in the whole wide world', 'I want you in my life', 'I value and cherish our friendship'.

  Sounds like we know the same girl, willy! In my uBPDxgfs' case, I believe it was a combination of a genuine knowledge that I was in fact her best friend, in terms of being understanding, patient, forgiving, supportive, etc., and a cynical BPD-driven attempt to keep me on a string so she could pull me back in whenever she needed validation (or money) while she screwed/partied with every other guy in town.  

So, I guess I have decided to find out. To ask her.

  IMHO, that's a slippery slope, willy. You know why you ended the relationship. You know why you deserve better than she can offer. You know you're not delusional. So why risk getting drawn back in to her destructive world? Stay strong and look after you.  

[mapys]

Don't do that ! Don't go there.

They all say the same thing - NOTHING WILL CHANGE!

Friends? Hell - do you trust her - truly would you trust her your life? If no or you are not quite sure, then bite your tongue and be silent - do not engage - that is the best option.

1) I won't find someone who understands me like you do=my current rs failed, you are so special to me - we had a cosmic connection  (makes you feel special but you know that that is not true - she had previous rs and they felt to her more or less the same).

2) Are you dating someone=What are my chances to get you back? (wants to be polite so to seem that she won't ruin you possible current rs - earns brownie points in your eyes)

3) You are my best friend etc=you are so special (again you know that is not true)

4) I want you in my life=I want my old punching bag back in case i need it.

5) I value and cherish our friendship=if I will need something from you I want you to do that

My interpretation is from our side - she might feel something else, but the reality to you will feel like my interpretation. Do you want that? Do you really think you don't deserve better?

[free-n-clear]

... . a cosmic connection... .

  You too, mapys? She really does get around.   The very same words.

[bossanover]

So, I guess I have decided to find out. To ask her. I'm sure I will be hurt by her answer. But, I don't feel anxiety about that either.

sounds like you have pretty well decided what you want to do. But I think it's important to keep in mind that you probably won't get ANY answers. In my experience, there is no talking with a scorned BPDex. They cannot hear reason and twist everything around. As others have said here, including yourself, this is most definitely a recycle attempt.

I think the answers you seek are better found here.

[willy45]

Ha ha. Yes. You are all correct. I haven't spoken to her yet. But, I know you guys are right. There is no way anything has changed on her end and there is no way I'm going back to the abuse. Just living in a fantasy land. I know that is dangerous. But I have pretty clear boundaries. I guess the point being is that I felt terrible after she called. And felt terrible for a week. But then realized that I am the one in control of my own decisions. And that made me feel a million Times better.

[free-n-clear]

... . But then realized that I am the one in control of my own decisions. And that made me feel a million Times better.

   That's the spirit!    It ain't always easy, but it's do-able and over time it does get easier.

[Skip]

So, I guess I have decided to find out. To ask her. I'm sure I will be hurt by her answer.

willy45,

If you ask her to define the obvious or ask her to prove that she has seen the error of her ways (or sees it your way) and has repaired herself to your satisfaction, its not going to be a good conversation.

With anyone. Ever.  

If you want to explore - be wise and mature in your ways.

So, again, if you would indulge... . Do these seem like acceptable boundaries?

1) If she hasn't done any work on herself then it is no deal.

2) If she is seeing anyone else or has just broken up with someone, it is no deal.

3) If she can explain to me why she would rage at me without blaming me entirely or the situation, it is no deal.

4) If she just wants to be my 'best friend', it is no deal (as I have no idea what that would actually mean in real life)

Implied in all of this is that the problem was her and that she owes you and apology and a promise.  Many of us feel this way - but turn the tables - how would you respond to being treated like this?

I'd make the assumption that my attitude and approach was triggering to her and part of the problem and not to go back there - and that everyone deserves to be respected and a fresh start doesn't begin with opening the old bags. Remeber, she is a women and needs to be treated like one.

As for your criteria... .

1) If she hasn't done any work on herself then it is no deal. - Observe - don't ask - especially don't ask up front - you know what to look for

2) If she is seeing anyone else or has just broken up with someone, and want to date it is no deal. - Absolutely

3) If she can explain to me why she would rage at me without blaming me entirely or the situation, it is no deal. - I've never seen this work     Let her bring this up in her own way and time.

4) If she just wants to be my 'best friend', it is no deal (as I have no idea what that would actually mean in real life)- Maybe easing into it as friends - a few casual get togethers over a month or two - is a wise place to start.

Go one step at a time, go slow, and don't have idealistic expectations. You earn as you go.  Let her earn it too.  Step by step.  You know what to look for.  You have recycled before.  You know what BPD.  You know yourself and your quirks... .

[willy45]

Hi Skip,

Yes. Very wise advice. Thank you so much. I wasn't planning on asking her outright. That would certainly be awkward. I guess I just wanted to ask her why she contacted me although thinking about it, I'm not sure that will offer a whole ton of clarity. We don't live in the same city so this kind of conversation is probably not likely to yield much over the phone. I'll have to think about wether or not I want to 'ease' into it in terms of taking the time to find out. I'm not sure I can handle that but I'll think about it. Having her call me was already a boundary being busted. She didn't really offer any explanation as to why she did other than that she missed me but there was no mention of 'hey, sorry to call, I know you told me not to' or anything of that sort. It was just out of the blue and then all this stuff about missing me, being her best friend, asking me if I was dating anyone, telling me she will never find someone who understands her like I do. Perhaps that is my first piece of evidence... .

Thanks though. Much to think about.

[free-n-clear]

Having her call me was already a boundary being busted. She didn't really offer any explanation as to why she did.

  You set the boundaries for a reason, Willy.

I did a TON of work on myself since we broke up. I went to a T for about 6 months and worked through a lot of issues. My main ones that I have found the most challenging were learning how to 1) respect my own boundaries; and 2) validate my sense of reality and right/wrong. I have seen huge changes in my life as a result. I have been able to implement these in my work life and in other relationship contexts and I have found it has made an enormous difference.

  The question now is, do you apply what you've learned to another attempt at a relationship with someone who's... .

... . capable of destroying me... . I left her for a good reason. She was abusive with me. And I am not willing to let that happen again.

  ... . or do you apply it to a relationship with someone else, someone who's healthy, who can conduct themselves in a mature, loving way and thereby maximise the value you get from all your good work?

   It's a question only you can answer and either way, I wish you well. Maybe she has spent the last 1.5 years getting the help she needs, but if she hasn't... .

[Skip]

The question  ... . or do you apply it to a relationship with someone else

an important question for sure.

[Sunny Side]

This is a good thread, willy45.  Regardless your decision, it helps to read from the experience of those who have gone through similar (at least for me it does, I hope it does for you).

I don't know if there were any clear "recycles" in my 14 month BPD relationship per se, but just being nearly 2 weeks of NC out and having just received a letter (which I'll discuss in another thread), it's helpful to read yours and the processes of others.  Thanks  .

[willy45]

OK. So. Everyone warned me. See my other posts. She called me last week out of the blue and I talked to her. She told me that she will never find anyone who will understand her like I, how I am her best friend in the whole world, and blah blah blah. This is after over a year of NC.

So, I wanted some clarity as to what she wanted. I thought it was a recycle attempt. Apparently not. I spilled my heart out to her. She told me that there was no way we could ever get back together. That she was dating someone else. That she just wanted me to be her best friend. How unhealthy our relationship was. Aggggggggg... . I feel terrible. I told her that I found it really hard to be friends with her while she was dating someone else as I still had strong feelings for her and didn't have 'friend' feelings.

I am devastated. All over again. Why? Why does she call me? Why does she say things like this to me? And then she acts surprised that I would even bring it up?

Aggg... . I feel like I'm the one who is mentally ill.

[seeking balance]

First of all, we all do this until we are done - and we are not done until we are... . it doesn't matter how many people can tell you something, sometimes we need to touch the stove to see if it is still hot - part of life and learning.  Try not to be hard on yourself, but do try and learn the stove is hot this time around.

I am devastated. All over again. Why? Why does she call me? Why does she say things like this to me? And then she acts surprised that I would even bring it up?

If I recall, your other posts pretty much summed all this up - rereading them now might help you process the reality of all this.

Aggg... . I feel like I'm the one who is mentally ill.

Labels - mentally ill or "has some issues" - who cares what you want to call it.

Denial, plain and simple - it is really hard to believe that someone we love and someone who professed so much love and adoration to us could continue to hurt us.  At some point, we must accept "this is who she is" ... . if you can live with it, great - if you cannot, then use this as fuel to move past her.

Question - over the last year of NC ... . what kind of self-inquiry and processing have you done?  What new things did you start?  Look to the right on the 5 stages of detachment... . use these answers now as you process these feelings.

I know this hurts and shocks you right now and probably feels like the scab has been ripped off - but you are probably much stronger than you realize.

You posted here - good job!

What other actions can you do to process these new emotions?

Hang in there and be gentle with yourself - she showed you who she is and you needed to see it.

,

SB

[ScotisGone74]

People can tell you until they are blue in the face but only You know what is right for You and when its time to wave the white flag and pack it in.     I have been no contact for well over a year and would like the opportunity to tell her how manipulative and how vile her actions were for my own closure it would only serve to open up old wounds.    No contact is not perfect but I have discovered for me it is the best path.   

[clairedair]

First of all, we all do this until we are done - and we are not done until we are... . it doesn't matter how many people can tell you something, sometimes we need to touch the stove to see if it is still hot - part of life and learning.  Try not to be hard on yourself, but do try and learn the stove is hot this time around.

Hi Willy45

I am to hear that you have had to go through this ordeal.  

I agree with what SB said though - that we are not done until we are.  It's a tough journey to that point but eventually we do get there.  In some ways, that's when the harder work begins because that's the point that we really look at ourselves instead of trying to work out what's going on with someone else but this kind of work is worth it in the long run.

There wasn't really anything drastically different about my exH's last split with me (he'd left over 10 times by this point) but it was as if the scales fell from my eyes and I finally could see that nothing was ever going to change.  All the other times we'd been separated, I had known deep down that I was still deeply attached.  I got back together with him after a year apart one time so even after 12 months.  I even reconciled after he divorced me. I still wasn't done.  

This time, I just felt done and I can't point to anything I did or read or heard that was different - I just knew that I felt different and there was no going back  (my exH starting dating instantly and remarried quickly which helped with the no going back but I was done before that happened).

I didn't just stop loving him overnight.  I didn't just stop finding the whole thing incredibly confusing. I still find myself going over and over things he's said on the rare occasions we have contact re: children - questions similar to the ones you are asking yourself just now. But I find that I am better able to stop ruminating and accept that "this is who he is" and get back to living my life.  And beating myself up for not being the one to leave or divorce him or say no when he wanted back just kept me stuck.  I needed to learn about why I didn't do those things not indulge in mental flagellation!

Do you have a T or some other kind of support?  Someone you can talk to in person about this latest setback?  

take care,

Claire

[willy45]

It is just really hurtful. She acted like I was the crazy one.

What's been happening over the past year is that every two months or so she would call or email or text. I would mostly ignore thinking that would send the clearest signal. Every now and then, I would give in (twice in the past year, maybe 3). Then she would ramp up the communication and I would tell her that it was hurting me and that she not call me again. She brought that up in our conversation, saying that she experienced it is as 'I love you, I hate you'. I guess I know too much about BPD now. I don't know. Just seems like I am the crazy one. But I never reached out to her. Ever. And when she did, I would explain to her that it was hurting me, that I couldn't move on in life because of it, that I couldn't have a good relationship with her in my life. I guess that doesn't seem to matter. I told her that I would find being friends with her exceedingly hard, that it would stop me from having a good relationship of my own. That doesn't seem to matter. Nothing about my feelings seem to matter.

Man. I knew this was going to happen. Over and over and over again. I just want to give up.

[seeking balance]

Nothing about my feelings seem to matter.

Man. I knew this was going to happen. Over and over and over again. I just want to give up.

Willy, your feelings matter to us - sounds like you are still attached to her and you were hoping maybe she was ready to come back to you?

What do you mean by give up?  What do you want to give up Willy?

[LettingGo14]

It is just really hurtful. She acted like I was the crazy one.

I am sorry you are going through this.  You are definitely not alone.   I was shamed and blamed as well. Now that I sort through the rubble of the devastation, I have started -- slowly -- to release myself from the shame and blame.  

These relationships are traumatic.  My ex had four jobs in four years we were together.  She would rant and rave about how horrible her bosses were, and either quit or be forced out, and then -- magically -- she would become facebook friends with former bosses and text nice things to them periodically.  It was insane.

Forgive yourself Willy.  Re-draw your boundaries.   Make a list of all the reasons you are not in the relationship.  Then push through the pain into your own pain.  And, start to release yourself.

We're here for you.

Man. I knew this was going to happen. Over and over and over again. I just want to give up.

Quote from Elizabeth Gilbert:  "Ruin is a gift.  Ruin is the road to transformation."

Visualize your future on your own two feet.  Keep posting, brother.

[willy45]

Yeah. I guess if I am going to be completely honest, that was what I was hoping for, in a way. But also not. It is so confusing... . She has tried to contact me before and it always struck me with terror. I just ignored, ignored, ignored. NC all the way. Two weeks ago, the thought of even talking to her let alone getting back together with her was so far from my mind. The thought of it made me sick.

Then, when she called and had such a great conversation. She told me how much she missed me, how she won't find anyone who will understand her like I do, how I am so exciting and inspiring and how much she would love to see me. I thought she wanted to reconcile. It just seemed so over the top. So, for the past week I have been thinking about it and how it could be different and living in a complete fantasy land. And so I called her to ask why she was calling and she told me that she just wanted a friendship back. I told her that since she called that I was really sad and missing her. She said she missed me too. But she said she was seeing someone else and that there was no way for us to reconcile. And so I asked her why she would say those things to me and she seemed shocked that I would ask. She said she was just being nice.

So yes. If I am honest with myself right now. Yes.

The troubling thing was that she was the one that seemed to be making sense. Telling me how it wasn't possible. That the only way back together was through a friendship first. That that was all she could offer. I told her that it really hurt me every time she called because this is what happens to me. She didn't seem to care. All she said was OK, just don't be mean to me. The same thing she would always say to me after a fight. Even if we weren't fighting. She would always 'don't be mean to me'. Any slight look or if she took my tone of voice wrong.

She said there was no way for us to ever work out. That it wasn't possible. But, if it was, we would have to establish a friendship first. That part actually makes sense. But I told her: What kind of friendship would this even be? If you know that I still love, and I know she still loves me, what would this friendship be? She didn't have an answer.

Soo heartbroken right now. I knew this was going to happen.

I guess I feel ill because I knew this was going to happen. I knew it. In my rational self and mind, I don't want anything to do with her, let alone date her. This is what is making me crazy right now. Somehow the conversation changed into what I did wrong in the relationship and how I would have to change. That somehow I was the one who did everything wrong and she was the one who just thought we were soul mates.

Ag. Is this what someone with BPD does? Do they just like keeping people around no matter what? She told me that our relationship was the worst time in her life, except for her previous relationship with someone she described as being extremely abusive.

[seeking balance]

Ag. Is this what someone with BPD does? Do they just like keeping people around no matter what? She told me that our relationship was the worst time in her life, except for her previous relationship with someone she described as being extremely abusive.

I don't know if all bwBPD do this, but from my own experience and from being around this forum for the last several years - yeah, part of the disorder is about keeping "self-soothing" tools in the form of people. 

I had to finally accept that words from my ex were only that - words - they didn't take away the truth of what she did or how she acted or even how I acted.  There is a great book on all this "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"  It is very very true.

As others have said - time to re-establish your boundaries and what you need in all this.

I am sorry you are hurt 

SB

[willy45]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate this.

I think what I need is to get as far away from her as possible and get back to where I was before she called. I was doing well. (or at least better).

I'm so mad at myself for how this went down.

[AwakenedOne]

Hi Willy,

"That doesn't seem to matter. Nothing about my feelings seem to matter."

You matter. I agree with the advice to redraw your boundaries. Seems like she isnt going to change and you don't want to be friends. I can't be best friends with an ex either. Maybe find a better friend and future girlfriend. I dread when my ex will call me in the future, if they do. I'm NC 7 months. I won't be going to lunch with her. I feel for you. Hang in there.

[seeking balance]

I'm so mad at myself for how this went down.

Well, you can be mad as long as you need to - but to not have it happen again, lean into the anger and let yourself feel the pain... . pain is the great reminder of not going into that rabbit hole again.

You really will be ok - do you happen to have a T that you worked with before that you can call on again?

[barbwire911]

I know how you feel Willy... . my exbfwBPD sounds similar... . not exactly the same but he bounces our "status" around so seemlessly. For a month he would be enamoured with me and talking about our future and writing me cards saying he chooses me "to travel life's journey with" and then the next weekend he is crying breaking up with me saying we move too fast and he just wants to be friends first and then see where things go.  It is all so odd. I am 7 days in NC right now after sending him 2 nice and normal emails a few weeks ago about a disagreement we had and I got no response. Silent treatment. So then finally I sent one saying never to contact me again.  Still silent treatment but he is starting to show up at the gym when I go (this was how all our former recycling attempts previously began).

So I know how you feel.  I have read BPD love love the chase and then when they get the person they back off as they fear the closeness.  They alternate between wanting attachment and pushing hard for it and then fearing it when they get it.  And my ex did tons of projection.  He backed off as he said I was the one pushing the attachment when it was hardly so... . in fact he wanted me to sleep everynight at his new place he moved into and I would only stay once a week as I thought if I at least moved slow, it might work in the 100th time we tried. But nope... . it is always something.

So try not to beat yourself up but I know it is hard.  Stay strong and just start NC again.  In a week you will feel better but right now you feel likely embarrassed, humiliated for sharing your feelings and then just being rejected.  I find those with BPD like to use that friendship card too as a way and rationale for keeping ex's around in their back pocket for when they need them.

[Sunny Side]

Hi willy, I feel for you and you're not alone.  Seeking Balance hipped me to a great link (thanks SB) that I'd read before probably 3 or 4 times over the last few months (I'm nearly two weeks NC after 14 months r/s). 

Here's the link (10 Belief That Can Get You Stuck):  https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

Reading it again just 30 mins ago I found the words finally seeping in and having more relevant meaning.  Check it out, it may help.

[arn131arn]

I think this is Triangulation at its best. If she is so happy in another RS why would she need you as a best friend. She tested the waters, you spilled your guts to her and she realized you were still there. So, she can go on her merry way with the new guy. It does suck and I feel for you, bro.

[willy45]

I guess I just don't get it. I don't even understand how the conversation went to where it did. We chatted and I told her I felt sad when she contacted me because it just brought everything back up again. And then all of a sudden we were talking about how I wanted her back and she didn't want that. But I was only asking her what she wanted. And I told her that I can't be friends with her. That I don't feel that way towards her. And then all of sudden the conversation was about how I want her back and that she could never ever want that. But I didn't want her back. I just told her that when we spoke it made me feel like I did and that feeling makes it really hard for me to move forward in my life.

I don't understand how someone cannot listen like that. I guess that is why I left her in the first place. Somehow my saying how I feel turns into me being this crazy person whose feelings should be disregarded because they are crazy.

[willy45]

Yeah. arn131. That is totally 100% it. Why else would she call? Why else would she need a best friend? Why would she say: 'Nobody cares about what I have to say like you' 'I will never find anyone in the world who understands me like you do'. And on and on. Why else would she say that? And the calls started happening the day after Valentine's day. And she kept saying: I couldn't get you out of my mind for 3 months. What the h*ll does all that mean?

I don't get it. I should have seen it coming. I know this was what this was about. I guess I just opened up my heart and thought things would have changed. Nope.

[corraline]

Hey Willy

Im sorry you are going through this.  Its just so cruel.  Its so difficult and confusing especially because our way of loving just doesn't relate to this type of behavior.  Thats a good thing i figure.

Please be kind to yourself and know you are not alone.  You didn't make a mistake, you are still learning to grow and heal.

[willy45]

yeah. I'm just so tired of this. I guess I was overly optimistic about my ability to draw boundaries... . I'm just so tired of being constantly vigilant. She never calls me from her number. Always 'unkown' phone call. It's an international call and she doesn't want to pay long distance. So I guess not super duper stalkerish but it means that anyone calling me internationally makes me scared. And sometimes I pick up. And sometimes it is her on the other line.

I just don't understand how the conversation went so sideways. We talked for 10 minutes and I sounded pretty bummed and she asked me why. I told her that I had a hard time every time she called me because I went to this fantasy land where everything is great because I miss her so much and then I get bummed out that it isn't real. And then the conversation goes into how she could never be with me because of the way I left her and how being with me was the second most miserable time of her life (next to her abusive alcoholic ex-boyfriend who was 30 years her senior). And all of a sudden the conversation is about me and why I feel that way and why I broke up with her in the first place and blah blah blah.

The thing is, I went into the conversation just trying to figure out where she was at. I asked her why she was calling (after I told her in no uncertain terms to never call me again). I asked her if she was seeing someone (she is). I then told her that I was confused because a few days ago she said I was her best friend in the whole world, how nobody listened to her the way I did, how she misses every day, how she thinks about 24/7, how amazing I am, and how I inspire her. She then told me that she was just saying that to be nice and seemed surprised that I would think anything other than that. I even told her last time that I wasn't interested in being friends with her because I didn't feel that way about her, that it confused me and hurt me to be her friend.

She just doesn't care. Or doesn't understand. I don't know. Man. So much for my hubris of thinking I had good boundaries. I just reverted back to defending myself. She asked me if I was so in love with her then why did I leave her (I never said I was so in love with her... . I just told her that talking to her put me in a fantasy land where we were together and happy and the reality of that not being real was too much for me to bear). For some reason I didn't have the heart to say: "I left you because you were abusive with me and raged at me at all hours of the night. That I had to hide from you under the bed. That I was terrified that you would hit me. That you would storm off at the slightest sigh or hesitation in my voice." All I said was that I didn't understand what was going on in our relationship and I needed to learn because it was hurting me.

What's wrong with me? I feel like I'm back at square negative 10000. Like every time before. I'm tired of being so vigilant against her. I'm tired of living in a fantasy world where the 'love of my life' wasn't also abusive and predatory. I'm just so tired. I wish she would just leave me alone. I'm tired of trying to understand her or what her motivations are.

[corraline]

Some things just never make sense. Its just what it is no matter how hard we try to understand. We may get more clarity as times goes on.

Can you be okay with that Willy? I spend hours still trying to figure it out even with all of the info and understanding i have now and the only way out for me is to accept that I will never truly know who this person was or why they did all of the crazy things they do. First because we are two separate people and second because of the dynamic that went on between us is something i am still trying to process.  Who I am and what i brought to it.

I reel and reel over the most bizarre behaviors over the last three years and try to figure it out. What a waste of my precious life. ugh

Find the tools on this board, find some tools of your own to disengage from this latest entanglement.

When you are ready.

[willy45]

Thanks Caroline. Much appreciated.

The thing I struggle with about the 'what did I bring to the relationship' question is a hard one for me. Specifically because my ex used to use that logic on me all the time whenever she would rage at me. I remember her raging at me for something super minor (she asked me what I wanted to do over the weekend and I said that I didn't know). I remember leaving the house because I couldn't take it. And I remember her calling me right after to tell me I had to think about what my part in the argument was. There was no 'hey, sorry for freaking out', or 'I was hurt that you didn't have a plan'. It was 'you made me act this way and you need to figure out why you did that'. (the answer: I just woke up and was groggy).

So, the struggle about what I brought to the relationship is a tough one for me. A of love and hope? A misguided idea that I wouldn't get yelled at for everything? The misguided trust that I could fall asleep without fear of being raged at for rolling over or moving the blankets? I don't think I deserved that.

I think what is interesting and worth exploring is why I stayed. Why I still care. Why I still hope. Why I can't seem to wrap my head around the fact that this person doesn't really care for me but rather wants to hurt me and continue to hurt me so that she can have me around for whatever reason (probably her deep fear of abandonment). These are the things that I brought to the table. This is apparently what I still bring to the table. And this is the thing that is hurting me. And scaring the daylights out of me. I could loose everything in life with just a tiny slip like answering a phone call.

[corraline]

Yah Willy

I get what you are saying here . Where you got to at the closing part of post is more what i am talking about.

I had my ex constantly holding me responsible for his incredible behavior. Even telling me in the beginning when i first caught him cheating that trust was a two way street. He wouldnt be cheating basically if i trusted him. Well sorry, not buying into that one. Or how about the "women like me are the reasons why men who care drink".  Hmmm... . ok... . right.

But i will hold some responsibility for why i stayed for so long in a relationship that undermined my sense of worth and integrity. Im figuring that one out and i have miles to go maybe.

[willy45]

Yeah. That's a good point. That is what I struggled with over the past year and a half. And I came to terms with the fact that I had poor boundaries. And I didn't stick up for myself. But really, I think that boundaries only work with people that can understand what boundaries are.

The thing that is making me insane right now is that when I talked to my ex, she was telling me how we needed to establish a good friendship that had really clear boundaries and work on that. This is the same person who would rage at me when I told her she violated my boundaries with "You and your f#&*ing boundaries". The same person who is telling me she is dating someone and is unavailable romantically yet telling me she won't find anyone who understands her like I do or that I am her best friend in the whole world and on and on and on. That can't be real.

I guess the truth of it all is that I still don't have good boundaries. My boundary with her was ':)on't ever call me again, don't ever contact me again.' She did for months and months and months to no reply. I caved this time. And I am suffering so badly I can hardly take it.

[corraline]

Willy

My ex was all over the practicing good boundary stuff but was the biggest violator of them.

you said you can hardly take whats going on for you right now.  how about taking whats left of you that is okay and putting energy into that.  Don't let her have any more .

Hold on to yourself.  You are worth it.

[AwakenedOne]

'you made me act this way and you need to figure out why you did that'

That gave me flashbacks reading this statement. I heard this hundred of times from ex. It's really amazing how everything can be our fault. Getting away from this person has made me feel so much better about myself. Nice to not have to hear how bad I am daily. Sounds like your health and happiness improved after you left her also.

[willy45]

ACK! So much information I absolutely did not want to know. Seriously. What's wrong with me? Why do put myself through this over and over and over again. It never turns out well. I hate it.

Her parting words for me on the conversation were: Don't be mean to me. I am now understanding that what that means is: Take whatever bull___ I throw at you and don't do anything to react to it.

That is pretty clear.

[mapys]

Why do you keep punishing yourself? Really what you are doing is you are punishing yourself - you have to find out why you are doing this... .

Also you can look at your situation as follows:

Consider a situation where you have your BPD gf, yourself and a normal woman with whom you could have a lasting, loving relationship. So 3 persons.

And now you have options:

1) You stick around (get back) with your BPD partner

2) You stay alone

3) You find that third person and eventually find love

So what does it mean in greater context?

If you choose path #1 - you will be devastated (you already know that your BPD partner cannot sustain happiness). So She will drown you and the world will "loose" 2 people.

If you choose path #2 - you know that in general you feel better when you are alone than when you where with BPDgf. So in this case the world "looses" only 1 person, which BTW is already lost - I honestly don't think that they can be truly saved (judging from my experience and information and stories found on this site).

If you choose path #3 - you step into new kind of universe, where there are two happy and loving people, yes the other one drowned (but that is just life).

So ask yourself - what is best for the universe?    Or maybe just find out which of these path's you don't want to take like FOR SURE

Don't take my post too seriously but this is how I look at this situation (which is similar to mine) )

Be strong!

[Narellan]

Barbwire 911. i feel like im looking in a mirror when i look at your post. Exact word for word my situation. Why do we listen to ex BPD, because we will Never understand what we did or whether we did anything to contribute, and maybe its a miscommunication. The more i read on here the sicker i feel. I am diagnosing my ex myself, but everything just seems to clarify my situation. My ex of only 10 days, told me i was what hed been waiting for his whole life, i travelled away to be with him for a few wonderful days, maybe the best of my life, and he posted photos all over facebook that we were together. a couple of days home my friend asked, "so i see youve met someone", and i later mentioned that to him, and suddenly its" why didnt u say we were just friends?" He panicked big time, deleted every photo (20) of us kissing and cuddling and laughing, and stated to me we are just friends. I was so humiliated i sent one text, saying how brokenhearted i feel, and no reply and its 10 days, and he is now making comments on other girls facebook photos to hook up with them. I am gutted. My family all saw the photos and were annoyed i had gone off for a few days with him, so have told me to sort out my life, and i also now have no contact with them. I am sure he is openly posting on other females to get a response from me, which i refuse to do. I am really just getting to know him from this behaviour. I am depressed and feel like vomiting most of the time. My life is in chaos. And yet i am checking my phone constantly waiting for an apology. I cant bear the failing of it.

[willy45]

Hi Barbwire,

I'm so sorry to hear that. That must have been awful. I can only imagine.

For me, what worries me the most is all the work I've done over the past year and a half seems to have gone down the drain. I'm devastated. I didn't sleep last night. Woke up feeling like I got kicked in the stomach. My sense of what is real and what is normal is just so out of whack.

I don't understand how the conversation went from me saying I couldn't be 'friends with her' because of how it made me feel to a discussion of why we can't be together, my professing my undying love for her, her berating me for having left her, and her 'offering' her friendship to me. I don't get it. That is totally not how I was imagining the conversation going at all. I wasn't wanting to get back together with her. The thought of it made me sick. I just don't understand how the conversation went in that direction. She came out like the sane one. I came out like the one with BPD. That is how I feel now. Maybe I am the crazy one. I can't sleep. I can't think. She's off with some other guy and acting like this is totally normal. I don't get it. Does this other guy know she's talking to me? Does this other guy know that she tells me I am her soul mate and always will be? I don't get it.

The worst thing is is that after she told me she was seeing someone (I asked), I tried to explain how her calling made me feel, that it brought me back to a place where I missed her tremendously and felt bad about myself for having broken up with her. Her response was that I shouldn't beat myself up about it and that we should establish a friendship. She said 'even if I was available', I don't think I would want to be with you. Then, I asked her why should say all this stuff to me. I think that question shocked her. She said, Oh, I was just being nice and wanted to say nice things to you but I don't want to talk about the past. Well, What the heck. Isn't her saying 'I will never find someone who understands me like you do' talking about the past? What else would she be referring to?

I am so devastated. At the end of conversation, I told her I would try to be friends with her but that it would be really hard. That it hasn't worked in the past. That it brought up too much stuff and it made me not able to move forward in my life or have good relationships with other people. Her response: Don't be mean to me. It was like a flashback to our relationship. She would say that to me constantly. 'Just don't be mean to me'. All the time.

I'm so tired of trying to make sense of everything. Does it seem like any of this makes sense to anyone? Why would she repeatedly contact me after I told her clearly not to? Why would she say these things to me? Why would she then act surprised that I asked her what her intentions were?

Is it just me? Am I totally nuts? What is wrong with me?

And yes. I am constantly checking my phone too.

[woodsposse]

Why would she repeatedly contact me after I told her clearly not to?

She can do this for two reasons.  First, because she has no respect for your boundaries.  Second, because you have no respect for your boundaries.

Don't worry, we have all been there and done that.  But you could take advantage of some of the links on the right about the five stages of detachment.  I know the pain hurts, but just know it is a process and your happiness starts and ends with you.

[GreenMango]

Willy

I'm really sorry to hear this has brought back all those bad feelings. 

When you posted the original call and her asking for you in her life I know I thought she meant as a possible romantic thing.  I believe many of us who read thought that.

here's the other side of how this played out... . you mentioned when you guys talked she admitted to knowing how much this contact could hurt  but she proceeded to put her needs as priority without consideration for your well being.

either way you cut this she is still doing that.  Whether she wanted a momentary romance and reassurance or whether she wanted a friendship.  It sounds pretty selfish to me and it's very important to protect yourself from boundary busters. 

This whole no win situation and the mind scramble ... . is this how the relationship was too?  If it was then you have a huge lesson here.  She's let you know that this is how things are with her... . It's confirmation.

How can you get back on the detachment/healing train?

I

[Skip]

Does it seem like any of this makes sense to anyone?

Maybe.

Her: As I look back at your posts, she was pretty upfront and consistent about wanting establish a friendship - moving past no contact.

What are "friends" in this context?  Birthday and holiday emails, updates on family matters, congratulations on a promotion, pictures from a trip?

What is she telling you?  She likes you.  She doesn't see you as all bad - that there are many things about you that she misses - may not have in her current relationship.  Could it be that she doesn't want there to be hard feelings - she wants to mend the wounds of the breakup.

You: You miss the relationship/her, though there still might be some life left, and it was a great disappointment to learn that she has put the relationship behind her and is moving forward.

It's OK for that to hurt.  It's not the end of the world that the phone call to got awkward.


Maybe the thing to do is to make yourself feel better is to send her a short email and apologize for overreacting a bit, say you are still working through the breakup but you'll get there, and being amicable and friendly exs is a good idea.  Say something nice about her and close.  Keep it short.

Or say the same, and say "being amicable and friendly exs is NOT a good idea"

Then maybe step away for now.  Let the idea settle in that the relationship is truly over.

One question - you know her better than anyone - when you look literally at the words - was she misleading you or were you misreading her or both?  It'll help to know.

Hang in there.  Ending a realtionship with someone you care about is hard.

[LettingGo14]

Willy -- Thank you for posting.  I am sorry you are dealing with this now; but, if you allow yourself to grieve, and you re-engage the process of detaching and self-inquiry, this moment may be your ticket to freedom.

Your honesty and raw emotion really speaks to me, because you've articulated things I've felt in the past, and reading about your experience helps me re-frame and re-think my own experience.  Specifically:

I remember leaving the house because I couldn't take it. And I remember her calling me right after to tell me I had to think about what my part in the argument was.

There were so many times --- so, so, so many times -- that I "couldn't take it" anymore.   Listening to false accusations.  Being gas-lighted.  Having facts twisted.   Being blamed.  Being sucked into an emotional black hole.  Over and over and over and over.

But, Willy, here's what I'm starting to learn.   If I had had a better sense of solid self -- a "differentiated" self -- I would not have "reacted" by shutting down, or running away.   I might have stood up, told her that I was unable to soothe her, and walked away.  

There were times I felt like she wanted to rip me open and find the control panel.   If, at the time, I had a better sense of myself, I would have locked the door, breathed a sigh of relief, and moved on.

In my view now, "differentiation" is the key.  And, I am working to define my solid self.  (You can google "Murray Bowen" and "differentiation" if you want to know more).

So, the struggle about what I brought to the relationship is a tough one for me.

I think what is interesting and worth exploring is why I stayed. Why I still care. Why I still hope.

I have been hung up in these questions too.   Others have recommended reading the list of 10 things that keep us stuck.  It's a good list, and worth reflecting on, over and over.

I had to start by forgiving myself, Willy.  I had to forgive myself for the role I played.   I still sit with hurt and anger and fear.   But, as others have said, we need to sit with these feelings and learn to self-soothe.  The five stages of detachment help here.

Why I can't seem to wrap my head around the fact that this person doesn't really care for me but rather wants to hurt me and continue to hurt me so that she can have me around for whatever reason (probably her deep fear of abandonment). These are the things that I brought to the table. This is apparently what I still bring to the table. And this is the thing that is hurting me. And scaring the daylights out of me. I could loose everything in life with just a tiny slip like answering a phone call.

Take back your power, Willy.   You could even go as far as changing your phone number.  

Thank you again for posting here, and for sharing.  I can't thank you enough.   This is an amazing community of people.

[willy45]

Thanks Green Mango.

I thought too that it was a romantic thing. What else could it have been? When I asked her why she said all those things to me, she just said she was being nice. I guess these kinds of words don't mean anything to her.

And yes. More confirmation that she is not capable of listening to me or caring about me above her own needs. She said that all she could offer to me was her friendship. I wasn't even asking for it! I didn't seek her out to reconnect. I have been ignoring her for a year. I told her that friendship was hurtful to me, devastating to my life, and it just didn't matter.

And yes. The whole no win situation and mind scramble... . That is basically what defined our relationship. This was what happened all the time. She would yell at me and rage at me (sometimes over stuff that mattered, mostly not) and then it would be mind scramble for days for me trying to figure it out. And if I ever tried to get across my feelings, they were promptly ignored or I would get the 'why can't you just be nice to me' or 'don't be mean to me'. This is exactly how the conversation ended yesterday. She left me with 'I just ask that you don't be mean to me'.

How can I get back on the detachment/healing train? Ug. I guess use this as more confirmation that she is not OK and that I made the right choice in leaving her. I guess that is something I still struggle with. Probably because of the brain scrambling. I need to keep learning that I matter. I need to keep learning that my perceptions are valid. That this is not OK. It never has been OK and it never will be OK. So, there is nothing I can do about it. There was never anything I could have done about it.

Why would she say these things to me? I guess to draw me back in. But why? I guess I will never know. Maybe I should just accept that she has BPD even though she hasn't been diagnosed (she was diagnosed with bi-polar at some point and I know she spent time in a mental health institution for bulimia/anorexia, although when and why and for how long are really fuzzy).

The thing that I fear the most right now is the constant contact. It is so random. I have literally not replied to anything for a year. She keeps at it. I guess I need to just accept that it might never stop. And that is a terrifying prospect to me. I have literally done everything to try to get her to stop. Seriously burned the bridge over and over and over again. I have tried NC but obviously fail. Ag. Should I call the cops? Get a restraining order? Threaten a restraining order? Tell her friends to tell her to stop contacting me? I'm worried all those things will just add fuel to the fire. The best I can do is to learn to just ignore and that there will never, ever be anything different. Accept that this is the truth. Accept that it isn't my fault. Accept that there is nothing I could have done about. And accept that there is nothing I can do about it. Accept that I made the right decision to leave and this is just another example in my long list of examples of cruel behavior.

[willy45]

Hi Skip,

Thanks for the post. And yes. You are right. I misunderstood. Maybe I am the freak here. Maybe she has just moved on and her talking to me doesn't carry the same emotional weight. Maybe I am the crazy one here. She was really clear, I guess. Maybe I was just reading into what she said and what she says, hoping for something different.

The really crazy part is that I don't want her back. I want the fantasy of her back which never, ever existed and doesn't currently exist.

What I want is for her to go away. And never contact me. That is truly what I wanted before she called and what I want now. I told her what this does to me whenever she contacts me. I told her on that original phone call. I guess I thought that she heard that and was persisting because she wanted something else. In my mind, what else could it have been? I guess I still can't understand why she would want to be friends with me. And honestly, I don't trust that is the only thing she wants. And I don't think that is wishful thinking on my part hoping for another result. Maybe it is. I can't tell. I think deep down she just wants me in her grasp so that she has a fall back. It's one thing to be 'friends' who contact each other every now and again to say what's up. It is another thing to say that she misses her best friend, how she will never find anyone who understands her like I do, how I am her soulmate and on and on and on.

I don't know. Maybe I am the freak here. Maybe I do deserve all this.

[GuiltHaunted]

I just don't understand how the conversation went in that direction.

Maybe you were manipulated into this? She somehow leading the conversation in that direction? It's sounds like she is pretty well articulated and intelligent... .

Like all the other here I am sorry that you had to have this experience. But if it's any consolation this thread was highly useful to me and probably a lot of other too.

You see, I am 10 months post breakup (she broke up and had replacement lined up). And only 3 months NC, initiated by me, with the reason that contact hurts me and that she never contact me again. (Sounds familiar I guess).

I secretly hope though, that she would call me up saying that "she misses me", "that she thinks of me 24/7", "that I am the only one that understands her" etc.

Now I am not sure I hope so, that much anymore... .

[willy45]

Ha ha GuiltHaunted.

You don't want that. You really, really, really don't. There isn't any new information there. At all. Just more craziness.

And yes. I feel manipulated. I feel used. I feel tramped upon. I feel disrespected. I feel hurt. She is articulate. She is incredibly smart. She knows what she was doing. She didn't call me and say: "Hey! I know you asked me not to call you, and I know that before you said that it hurt. I was wanting to be friends and wondering if you might be able to do that. Up to you. No pressure at all". That would seem to me to be a way to go about it. That's not what it was. It was the idealization phase all over again. How great I am, how amazing I am, how much she misses me, how there is a hole in her life and her heart. I told her that I miss her with all my being and she told me that she feels exactly the same way. She told me she thought about me every day for 3 months, all day long, without being able to get me out of her head. Does this sound like someone who wants to be 'friends'? Yes. She did say she just wants to be friends. And yes. She did say she wanted to work on our friendship. But I had no idea what she meant. No idea. And just the same guilt and emotional manipulations as usual.

That's what you get. I hope for you you don't get what you wished for. I feel like a year and half of hard, hard work is now down the drain.

[Skip]

... . how there is a hole in her life and her heart. I told her that I miss her with all my being and she told me that she feels exactly the same way. She told me she thought about me every day for 3 months, all day long, without being able to get me out of her head. Does this sound like someone who wants to be 'friends'?

No.  That is coming on really strong.

[Dog biscuit]

What is she telling you?  She likes you.  She doesn't see you as all bad - that there are many things about you that she misses - may not have in her current relationship.  Could it be that she doesn't want there to be hard feelings - she wants to mend the wounds of the breakup.

This could be the case, but after a r/s and a difficult break up, you dont just call your ex telling them that you miss them so much, and that they were so special to you, and that you want them in your life, without making your intentions clear.

If she would like him, she wouldnt put him trough this pain without saying something like"Oh I am sorry that you misinterpreted/misunderstood my message, sorry that you feel hurt' or something along the line. That is what you do when someone is important to you. The last thing you want to do is to make them feel hurt.

[AwakenedOne]

As LettingGo14 mentioned, you might consider changing your phone number as well as your email address to avoid her giving you long term grief with the unwanted calls and (mind games?), if you decide that it's time to move on.   

[barbwire911]

I don't understand how the conversation went from me saying I couldn't be 'friends with her' because of how it made me feel to a discussion of why we can't be together, my professing my undying love for her, her berating me for having left her, and her 'offering' her friendship to me. I don't get it. That is totally not how I was imagining the conversation going at all. I wasn't wanting to get back together with her. The thought of it made me sick. I just don't understand how the conversation went in that direction. She came out like the sane one. I came out like the one with BPD. That is how I feel now. Maybe I am the crazy one. I can't sleep. I can't think. She's off with some other guy and acting like this is totally normal. I don't get it. Does this other guy know she's talking to me? Does this other guy know that she tells me I am her soul mate and always will be? I don't get it.

The worst thing is is that after she told me she was seeing someone (I asked), I tried to explain how her calling made me feel, that it brought me back to a place where I missed her tremendously and felt bad about myself for having broken up with her. Her response was that I shouldn't beat myself up about it and that we should establish a friendship. She said 'even if I was available', I don't think I would want to be with you. Then, I asked her why should say all this stuff to me. I think that question shocked her. She said, Oh, I was just being nice and wanted to say nice things to you but I don't want to talk about the past. Well, What the heck. Isn't her saying 'I will never find someone who understands me like you do' talking about the past? What else would she be referring to?

I am so devastated. At the end of conversation, I told her I would try to be friends with her but that it would be really hard. That it hasn't worked in the past. That it brought up too much stuff and it made me not able to move forward in my life or have good relationships with other people. Her response: Don't be mean to me. It was like a flashback to our relationship. She would say that to me constantly. 'Just don't be mean to me'. All the time.

Is it just me? Am I totally nuts? What is wrong with me?

@Willy45 and Narellan:  Will45, there is nothing wrong with you and you are not going crazy. Recall that those with BPD are soo good at twisting things around so that they come out looking as the winner and good person as they cannot face the shame they feel inside about themselves and their lives.  Of course she has to twist it to make you feel bad and confused as that is the only way she knows how to make herself feel better. I am not saying she is a bad person but remember that you are dealing with the mentality of a toddler here.  My ex used to do the same. He was really afraid to define our relationship and put labels on it (ie. dating, etc) as he felt it made us move too fast so it was his way of trying to control the relationship.  So even though we were intimate and would have dinners together and he would tell me he had feelings for me at midnight one night and liked me and I was made for him, etc. yet the next morning, not 7 hours later, I would ask him if he wanted to try our relationship again and officially "date" and he would say no he did not want a relationship with me as we were too volatile.

Yet the only volatility in our relationship was when he would freak out as he got too close too fast and run away for a few days with me trying to soothe him and calm him down as he cried and had anxiety, etc.   Now I learn he was also lining my replacement up.  Now that is from his ex-wife who despises me and claims he just used me too so not sure who to believe in that one. So I would explain to him the volatility aspect came from me not understanding this push/pull thing and then he would get defensive saying I made him do that. So we would then argue about that and then I would say 'I do not want a relationship with you after all as this is too much." Then he would say "see why I cannot be with you? You say you want me one minute and then the next minute, just because I state to you that you make me volatile, you do not want me anymore... . "

And I always left the conversations so confused as you are. That is why NC and even friendship cannot happen as you just go in circles with these people.  Yet then when another guy asked me on a date and I told my ex, he got all snarky about it (even after telling me to go date others) and then cancelled our plans for the following night saying he just did not want to see me anymore. So see where I was also confused? Double messages and I felt like you... . I left the conversations feeling nuts.  It is just the BPD way and you have to start now NC again but you will climb up to the good point you were in a week or so... . it is tough though.  I still miss my ex but 7 days NC now. It is tough but worth it as the amount of crazy making I went through was insane and if you keep in touch with her, she will just be her same old self again.

[willy45]

Yeah. The message that I got loud and clear to how this hurt me was: I understand. That was it. I understand. But I don't care. You are my best friend in the whole world and I want my best friend back. She doesn't care about me.

[DiamondSW]

willy,

The 2nd to last message my exBPDgf texted me last September was a passage from the bible... corinthians... . "Love is patient, love is kind, it does not hold grudges... and so on"... .   The last message was "Remember your are precious and special"... .

This followed 6 weeks from hell... . she lined some other guy up and basically made my life and how I felt about myself utter hell.  I truly, truly hated myself based upon how she made me feel, especially gaslighting, silent treatment and scaring the life out of me with her impulsiveness... .  

At the end of the day, I realised 3 things:

1)  For her it was a game.  A game of how she could snag a rich man and be provided for forever (in her eyes).

2)  I didn't matter as a person.  I could have been anyone, but I am special and I ticked a lot of boxes that other men don't.

3) WORDS ARE CHEAP.  Her words were how she regulated her feelings and made herself feel better after knowingly wrecking my life.  She could DO words, but NOT ACTIONS.

If you listen to her words, I'm afraid it will destroy you.  She's just a child.  I've been in some dark, dark places, and 6mths NC later I'm getting better and have even possibly met someone lovely.  BUT I NEEDED THAT TIME DESPERATELY away from her.  The time I spent in hospital showed me that. 

Please get away.  I wake up now and I have a text waiting from me from a kind girl who wants to play pool in the eveing and have a coffee.  6 mths ago I woke up and genuinely feared what nightmare would come my way that day -what little irrational joy involving my ex, her mother, visa problems, job problems, money problems, 'me' problems... . the chaos never stopped. 

I'll tell you something else:  I 'remembered' my exGF as physically gorgeous, a model type.  Yeah she's pretty, but I 'bigged her up' so much in my head that no other woman could compete.  Yesterday I spent the evening with a really lovely girl in a bar in North London and I looked over at her and realised that she too had a really pretty face and was attractive.  I'd put so much energy into feeling that i'd never meet anyone else, never have the gorgeous girl again on my arm, and then without realising it, I've found a really cute, sexy and HEALTHY woman to spend my time with... . and it's fun. 

You MUST cut contact with your ex.  For you.  I know it's rubbish and it feels like you might even be letting her down, but otherwise you're stuck.  I saw my BPDexgf a week or 2 back and she wasn't this goddess I remembered.  She's just this normal 'sick' girl who lives in a room on her own, doesn't work, does charity stuff because her T tells her to, and is bossed about by a hideous mother... .   She's not my 'dream' anymore... . and she's NOT IN MY DREAMS ANY MORE.

You ex doesn't want you in her life.  She wants to hurt you or she wants to use you.  I'm sorry, but its the truth.  The time in hospital and professional advice made me see it. 

[barbwire911]

@Willy45: Yeah I think she just wanted to see if you were still around so placed some "nice bait" and you bit 9and that is ok as we all do it... . ) and you got burned. So then she walks away as she baited you and is satisfied you are there and in her head, she thinks you want her back. So here she is dating one guy and in her head, she believes her ex also wants her... . for a BPD this is a big confidence booster and a YIPPEE! moment as lots of validation that fills their emptiness. likely that it why she wants to remain friends and why alot of those with BPD like to maintain contact with ex's... . for when they NEED (key word... . NEED) something (validation, confidence, boost, etc.)

[Rapt Reader]

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