Wife Wants Divorce With No Attorneys

[hurthusband]

yea this is what I was thinking.  Man... what a mess.  The damage is so inflicted by her... I am just confused and given up

I'm there too. My BPDbf (we have a baby) kept mentionning shared custody every time he was angry this year. Then I found out he had seen an attorney "to seek advice about his rights" (?). Then he kept talking about getting separated, with his family involved.

I got so sick of all this that I finally went along, and God knows it was hard. I finally said "OK, we ARE separated and the official date is ... ."

I did all the paper stuff in order to protect myself financially (I stopped working last year to take care of baby), he didn't stop me.

I mean he didn't ask me to stop, but he phoned the Income Support centre (as he says anyway) to tell them we weren't separated... .although he's left me and the kids at the beginning and the summer and has spent all his time with his parents since then (except for a couple of exceptions when he came here, told me he loved me and we made up for a couple of days).

Seeing that it wasn't enough, he's now threatened to send his notice to the landlord (we're renting our house).

And he keeps threatening (although he denies it's a threat) of taking baby FT... .

Yesterday he took baby away for a few hours, I was so scared that he wouldn't bring him back.

So this morning I phoned an attorney. She was very helpful, very understanding. She said "You CANNOT possibly stay in this situation."

I understood that WE and mainly THEY need clearly defined boundaries.

I have no idea though whether that destroys any chance there might be left to rebuild our relationship, or for him to accept marital therapy (he finally said yes yesterday... .weird).

My family don't understand why I still want MT. It's because the T I saw is specialized in BPD and may be able to talk the truth to him and hopefully calm his anger down.

Anyway, I have an appointment with the attorney in one week, and it breaks my heart, litterally.

Am I not adding fuel to the fire?

We sound to be in the same situation.  It is killing us literally being with them, but we still care about them. At same time, are boundary skills are weak.  I mean our boundary skills are enough for a normal person, but you have to be mean with BPD people to get anything done it seems.  You cannot give an inch...

My family just does not get it neither.  They thing my BPD is scheming into maninpulating them or getting stuff.  Its not that... I know what it is.  My wife is in severe mental pain, but has the mental capacity of dealing with pain of a 4 year old, but the power of an adult.  So she lashes out at everything around her and seeks anything she can to sedate the pain be it it *stuff* or booz.  She cannot accept its herself, and she cannot accept ___ty stuff just happens sometimes... so she blames me and takes it out on me in psychotic episodes.

I then give in and take blame or try and share blame which does not work because she wants all the blame on me.  I will then give her an inch of something to sedate her pain which only reinforces her bad behavior.  Her need for some relief from pain is like sitting with a drug addict in withdrawel.  They tell you all sorts of crap that warps your own mind into buying into it that they need the drug or whatever.

It is amazing... I am sane and rational person, but when she goes into her psychotic episodes she manages to place me in a sort of psychosis and out of touch with reality too.

I do not think a marital therapist can help UNLESS they have experience with BPD people because these people are not normal.  He probably needs to see somebody with DBT expertise.  Mine is in DBT and its incredibly expensive, and there is no guarantee of it even working.  I mean it has helped some... it is not psychotic 24/7, but there are episodes usually weekly that are massive bombs that go off.  My wife says that from therapy, her identity is stripped and she doesnt know who or what she is anymore.  I think its cause they are raised and used to being a certain way and therapy basically is trying to get them to realize their behavior and pattern of thinking is warped and not right which would make anyone question who and what they are.  The problem is then reforming the pieces which my wife seems to have a hard time with.

I can tell you this... it appears to save ourselves, we have to put boundaries on them, but since we have been weak so far and not placed boundaries, they will rebel mightily and place you in a spot where you wish you were dead.  I keep failing at this point

I am sane right now as I am not being assaulted and I can think clearly what I need to do, but I am sure when she onslaughts me again I will lose touch with reality again...

one of the wisest lines I ever heard was from Mike Tyson of all people "everyone has a plan... .until they get punched in the mouth"

you have a plan then the explosion starts and complete panic and chaos happens and you lose it...

I suppose if you cannot stick it out, you need to leave for your own sanity.  I am at the point where I have to figure out one or the other.  I am still going to talk to an attorney... has to happen

[Moselle]

I am sane right now as I am not being assaulted and I can think clearly what I need to do, but I am sure when she onslaughts me again I will lose touch with reality again...

one of the wisest lines I ever heard was from Mike Tyson of all people "everyone has a plan... .until they get punched in the mouth"

you have a plan then the explosion starts and complete panic and chaos happens and you lose it...

I suppose if you cannot stick it out, you need to leave for your own sanity.  I am at the point where I have to figure out one or the other.  I am still going to talk to an attorney... has to happen

Hurt, you seem to be in a very different place to when you started this thread. well done.

When are you going to speak to an attorney? do you have one in mind?

And when you get punched in the mouth again... .You can do it!

... .and perhaps you can be grateful it's not Mike Tyson punching you in the mouth

[momtara]

When I finally got my exH out of the house - and it broke my heart to do so - I kept looking over my shoulder for the first few days.  I hadn't realized how often I did that!  While I know you love your wife, understand she is ill, and will miss her, I think finally having some boundaries and not walking on eggshells will feel pretty good.  It is a tough situation.  You performed feats of heroism for her and her kids and that's something to be proud of.

[hurthusband]

Yes... I can tell I am shell shocked still... Past couple of nights even though we have gotten along, I am still VERY tense and nervous around her.  I find myself thrashing in my sleep at non existant things, and talking or screaming in my sleep.  Vaguely remember dreams involving her too.  I suspect it might be PTSD which is a bit embarrassing to have over your wife.

I found an attorney, need to meet with them now.  The really hard part about a divorce is its going to be her or me on survival. The problem is that she has kids and brings them down with her.  Being that she is at bottom of ladder at new job... even with a degree... its only $11 an hour.  Basically she could pay mortgage and electricity on that... or feed two teenagers.  On other hand, I could support that when separated and live at my parents as a bum with nothing. 

Need to set up a meeting with attorney to set things up though.  Really tired today... nothing indicates it should happen but I am VERY nervous/anxious she is going to be upset today.

[enlighten me]

Hi Hurthusband

Its not embarrassing to have PTSD from this. I myself felt that I had mild PTSD from my relationship. I have worked in the army and in Iraq and Afghanistan as a civilian and been in some very dangerous situations without being affected. What my exgf did to me is more than any rockets or mortars or threats of imminent death ever did.

[Moselle]

Yes... I can tell I am shell shocked still... Past couple of nights even though we have gotten along, I am still VERY tense and nervous around her.  I find myself thrashing in my sleep at non existant things, and talking or screaming in my sleep.  Vaguely remember dreams involving her too.  I suspect it might be PTSD which is a bit embarrassing to have over your wife.

I found an attorney, need to meet with them now.  The really hard part about a divorce is its going to be her or me on survival. The problem is that she has kids and brings them down with her.  Being that she is at bottom of ladder at new job... even with a degree... its only $11 an hour.  Basically she could pay mortgage and electricity on that... or feed two teenagers.  On other hand, I could support that when separated and live at my parents as a bum with nothing. 

Need to set up a meeting with attorney to set things up though.  Really tired today... nothing indicates it should happen but I am VERY nervous/anxious she is going to be upset today.

Hang in there. Get to the lawyer. You'll feel empowered.

Yes it's heartbreaking to have kids involved.  That's from personal experience.

Perhaps do something you enjoy, to bring you back some energy?

[livednlearned]

PTSD is nothing to be embarrassed about when it comes to these relationships. It's not uncommon. Especially if it sits on top of unresolved stuff from childhood.

If you can afford it, a good therapist will help you more than you can imagine. Just to sort through the stuff you're experiencing around guilt would make it worthwhile.

[momtara]

You will probably keep second guessing yourself as she goes from nice to angry.  Try not to forget how hard things have been.

It's also hard when you both have no money and you don't want to hurt the kids but you also can't give away everything and leave yourself with nothing - esp since she has done things that could make you lose your job.  If you save some money, you will be in a position to help them if they ever need it, and help yourself.  If you give up too much, she may squander it and then you (the sane one) have no control over it.  It's a tough line, I know.  My exH has no money so I didn't ask him for some things I should have asked for.  I didn't want him to be angry.  I am still growing a backbone.

Since you have mentioned that you don't think you have a legal right to visitation, maybe you could say to her "If you give me the kids every other weekend, that will take a burden off you and you'll be able to save money on their care and stuff... ." said in a nonthreatening way that makes it sound like you are doing her a favor.  May be hard to get in writing, but it's an idea.

[ForeverDad]

The really hard part about a divorce is its going to be her or me on survival. The problem is that she has kids and brings them down with her.  Being that she is at bottom of ladder at new job... even with a degree... its only $11 an hour.  Basically she could pay mortgage and electricity on that... or feed two teenagers.  On other hand, I could support that when separated and live at my parents as a bum with nothing.

So... .How did she manage her life with her children before she met you?  I'm just asking... .

She must have managed before and so she'll just have to manage after as well.  When you are married, then it's your business, when not married, then it's not your business.  Maybe that sounds rough and maybe I'm a bit jaded after surviving my custody War, but at least it's bare bones practical.

Priority List:

  You

  Your children

  ... .

  ... .

  Her children (if minors)

  Her

Sadly, you can't risk reversing the proper priority order just because she guilts you or you guilt yourself.  Not in a volatile high conflict case.

BTW - We all had PTSD, we just didn't always identify it as such.  I recall looking down or away from women because of my ex-spouse's overreaction whenever I was around any women under the age of, say, 90.   (Okay, I'm slightly exaggerating.)  Just one example, it sounds laughable now, but I was that deeply affected.  We all were in one way or another - or many others.

[Pou]

Besides the fact this shatters my world...

I am not sure this is a good idea.  I mean on other hand the debt she has wracked up past 2 years is enormous and I am 83% of the income earner with all the debt in my name so in a way that is attaractive since.

I am not sure what to do here.

I know at this point I feel like somebody who has been lying on the ground and kicked by a gang of superpowered villians for about 10 years.  At this point, I do not have the power nor strength to fight anything.  I just want the kicking to stop. I mean the actual physical abuse has stopped, but the mental abuse is much worse

hurthusband.  first and foremost, hang in tough.  I haven't had a chance to read others' advices.  Forgive me if they overlap.  Try to focus on the positives and accept that there will be pain.  Nons value relationships much more than average folks and I think that is why the PDs preys on people like us.  Perhaps, we can become codependent very quickly due to our need to be and to build a meaningful relationship.  Some Nons get lucky and they get it done with the right person and never have to endure the pain.  Some are not so lucky… as we all can see from the need of this forum.  My advice is that at some level you may want an "arbitrator" some sort to help you two navigate through your divorce.  PDs will change their minds on a dime and even lie to you that they never said or agree to something … how are you going to handle that when divide up your belongings?  Or worse, if you have kids, how are you going to have a fair plan of visitation or custody?  You will at least need an arbitrator, or spend a few bucks to have an attorney just to make sure everything is clear.

[momtara]

In the book Splitting, Bill Eddy says that there is a great temptation to just give up on everything to get this over with to stop the pain.  However, you end up regretting it later.  You will give up too much because you think it will help her, and it STILL won't help her; you'll just be in a lower position of power than before.

Money is a good example.  Let's say you give her all your money so she can function better after the divorce.  You forget how many times she's thrown it away on stuff, because it's been a while and she's acting better and remorseful.  The divorce is final.  She throws away your money and tells you you're a horrible person.  And you have nothing left to help her kids, her, or you if it comes to it.

Just a hypothetical.

That doesn't mean you should be mean.  You have to live with yourself and be able to say you did nothing wrong.  And I KNOW this is painful and you've avoided it for a very long time.  Just don't give in on anything really important.

[ForeverDad]

In the book Splitting, Bill Eddy says that there is a great temptation to just give up on everything to get this over with to stop the pain.  However, you end up regretting it later.  You will give up too much because you think it will help her, and it STILL won't help her; you'll just be in a lower position of power than before.

Money is a good example.  Let's say you give her all your money so she can function better after the divorce.  You forget how many times she's thrown it away on stuff, because it's been a while and she's acting better and remorseful.  The divorce is final.  She throws away your money and tells you you're a horrible person.  And you have nothing left to help her kids, her, or you if it comes to it.

Ditto!  Better to guard what finances and leverage you have now as best you can, or else you won't have it for later, perhaps when it is really needed more than now.

Better to avoid obligating yourself more than you have to now... .so you can have something to volunteer, donate or gift in the future.  Give her money now and you can't control or direct how it is used; preserve it and you later have the choice to give focused or directed gifts where you know it will be better used.  You will feel far better giving from the heart knowing it will be used within limits than when ordered/required to pay and knowing it will likely be squandered. - Compare Acts 20:35

When I divorced, I had to refinance so I could pay my ex her house equity.  Refinancing wasn't enough, so I had to borrow nearly $14K in a home equity loan to fill the gap.  I focused on paying off the home equity first and it took me 5.5 years to finally pay that $14K down.  (And I still have over 25 years to go on my mortgage, I'll be in my 80s by then.)  My ex?  I suspect she spent it all - her portion of house equity and my retirement - within 3 years.

[buterfly]

I have quite a few attorney's in my family, and although my husband also requested this, my family urged me to seek the advice of a lawyer. You are dealing with am irrational person here, and it's best to seek advice from a lawyer, in my opinion. It worked for me, and my attorney isn't even all that great. It's more expensive but worth keeping your sanity over.

[hurthusband]

Yea... I need to find time to just meet now with the lawyer I have.  At least see options

Yesterday, she couldn't go to kids football cause of work, so I rearranged stuff not that important and got back from work early to go since its at 5:30 pm and I work 1 hour away.  Rough game btw... tie and my kid didn't even play.  Anyways, after that I took him to pick up his mum for his homecoming date.  We get home about 8:20 and then he springs that he needs some more stuff for homecoming clothing wise.  I am already cleaning up after the day in the bathroom.  My wife has already had a couple of beers.  She then asks if she can take my truck.  I say "no, I will move my truck since my truck doesn't have your breathalyzer in it".  She states she had a couple of beers so she cannot take her car.  I say I will take him and she tells me I am telling her what to do.  I am sorry but if you have a DWI and are on probation, I am not letting you take the chance of driving a car you are not authorized to and especially with some alcohol consumed.

She was pissed.   I just slept downstairs.  Today is awkward.  That is part of the problem.  It is irritating but our kids are being VERY demanding and inconsiderate which really puts both our stress levels high.  Breaking phones, demanding new ones, calling from school wanting to come home when they are not sick, totally ungrateful... I take it as they are teenagers but its really sets my wife off.  Which means its set off on me.

Feeling scared of course today.  BTW, what books are must reads as a spouse of a BPD.  I figure even if I divorce her it could be good reading to dealing with anyone since I seem to find BPD is just a magnified amount of what we all do in situtations with others

[Pou]

Yea... I need to find time to just meet now with the lawyer I have.  At least see options

Yesterday, she couldn't go to kids football cause of work, so I rearranged stuff not that important and got back from work early to go since its at 5:30 pm and I work 1 hour away.  Rough game btw... tie and my kid didn't even play.  Anyways, after that I took him to pick up his mum for his homecoming date.  We get home about 8:20 and then he springs that he needs some more stuff for homecoming clothing wise.  I am already cleaning up after the day in the bathroom.  My wife has already had a couple of beers.  She then asks if she can take my truck.  I say "no, I will move my truck since my truck doesn't have your breathalyzer in it".  She states she had a couple of beers so she cannot take her car.  I say I will take him and she tells me I am telling her what to do.  I am sorry but if you have a DWI and are on probation, I am not letting you take the chance of driving a car you are not authorized to and especially with some alcohol consumed.

She was pissed.   I just slept downstairs.  Today is awkward.  That is part of the problem.  It is irritating but our kids are being VERY demanding and inconsiderate which really puts both our stress levels high.  Breaking phones, demanding new ones, calling from school wanting to come home when they are not sick, totally ungrateful... I take it as they are teenagers but its really sets my wife off.  Which means its set off on me.

Feeling scared of course today.  BTW, what books are must reads as a spouse of a BPD.  I figure even if I divorce her it could be good reading to dealing with anyone since I seem to find BPD is just a magnified amount of what we all do in situtations with others

hurthusband.  you got lots of stuff going on.  from my personal experience, laymen don't get PDs so it is hard to find support for myself even within family.  i don't have a good suggestion to your situation except for definitely getting a lawyer involved to save your sanity as many have suggested.  Secondly, I would really pay attention to your fitness and take time out everyday to take care of yourself, no matter how busy you are.  It will pay dividends.  It may not improve your situation, but it will help you dealing with them and not getting into your head.  Stay strong and best wishes.

[Moselle]

BTW, what books are must reads as a spouse of a BPD.  I figure even if I divorce her it could be good reading to dealing with anyone since I seem to find BPD is just a magnified amount of what we all do in situtations with others

1. "How to stop caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" by Fjelstadt is a brilliant book, and had a huge impact on me. It's aimed almost exclusively at the non, and things that we can do to change. It allso helps with radical acceptance.

2. "Conflict Couples" by Fruzzetti is a very good manual for changes within the relationship on both sides of a BPD relationship. It is about Dialectical Behvioural Therapy DBT, specifically for BPD relationships, but does not mention DBT once which is very good because it isn't confronting to the BPD spouse.

There are other book recommendations on BPDfam too, but of the 3 I have read, these two were the most useful in that order.  The other is Codependent No More which is more general and not specifically about BPD

[ForeverDad]

My wife has already had a couple of beers.  She then asks if she can take my truck.  I say "no, I will move my truck since my truck doesn't have your breathalyzer in it".  She states she had a couple of beers so she cannot take her car.  I say I will take him and she tells me I am telling her what to do.  I am sorry but if you have a DWI and are on probation, I am not letting you take the chance of driving a car you are not authorized to and especially with some alcohol consumed.

Excellent firmness in that boundary.   You don't want to be complicit in her breaking the law.

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder - Bill Eddy, Randi Kreger (essential protection when separating & divorcing; paperback or Amazon ebook)

Divorce Poison - Richard Warshak

High Conflict People in Legal Disputes - Bill Eddy

Note that Bill Eddy writes to the professionals (such as your lawyer or therapist!) but is understandable and vitally essential for us too.  His website HighConflictInstitute.com also has others of his books and lecture presentations to judges, lawyers, etc.

www.billeddy.com/articles.htm

[momtara]

I find that you seem a little healthier than in the past, HurtHusband.  You seem less maniuplatable and more able to set boundaries.  In the end, you have to live with yourself, so I don't blame you for taking so much time to figure out what to do.  Whatever happens (I know I keep saying this!) I think you did more than anyone else could have. 

[catnap]

At the very top of the page is a tab for Book Reviews.  Bill Eddy books are great, which ForeverDad mentioned.  Good for you setting a boundary about driving your truck.   

Set some with the kids as well.  Yes, much of what they are doing is typical, but they need consequences.  Calling and not being sick--ask to speak with the school nurse next time.  Do they have regular chores to do?  If not they need some: keeping rooms clean, taking out garbage, loading dishwasher, mowing lawn, raking leaves, etc.  Life skills.  Praising them when they do what they right is also equally important. 

Glad you have found an attorney.

[Mutt]

I'm happy to hear that you retained a lawyer hurthusband. I would also like to echo momtara and say that you sound better, keep at it, keep going.

[Moselle]

I forgot to mention I've also read "Splitting" by Bill Eddy, mentioned in Forever Dad's post. It helped me get from helpless to asserting myself in a way which protected me and my children. It also helps you understand what to expect and what not to expect from the legal system.

Even before you read them, can I suggest document, document, document. Create an evidence trail of what she does or doesn't do. When mine realised I was doing this, firstly she started behaving better, and secondly I started feeling in control of my future.

All the best, Hurt. Keep the momentum going.

[livednlearned]

Even before you read them, can I suggest document, document, document. Create an evidence trail of what she does or doesn't do. When mine realised I was doing this, firstly she started behaving better, and secondly I started feeling in control of my future.

Moselle has a great point -- this will go a long way helping you protect yourself legally, but it might also help you therapeutically. For some reason, seeing the behaviors and the patterns in one document over a period of time really drove home for me what was happening. It made it so much more about the behaviors than about my almost pathological need to understand why stuff was happening.

Trying to understand... .it doesn't work out so well for those of us dealing with BPD. The "why" is an illness, and unless we can experience what it's like to be them, the "why" is hard to know.

[Grey Kitty]

  I agree--GREAT job staying firm with the truck/breathalyzer boundary!

[hurthusband]

Yea... this morning we went to breakfast before I headed into work.  I could see her getting irritable.

Then she asks me when I am going to get a raise from my job with my mother since I been there 3 years without one.  I explain that its not really the best time since we are finishing up some trust issues and I am named a problem.  I say that I am not sure I am really worth anymore, especially since I am working my other job at this one.

She goes off about if we are going to stay together she needs to know our future and I have to do something about it.  I explain that I have been increasing and that I am mid career at this point and that raises are not just guaranteed things.  That I am trying, but at 6 figures, I am still doing pretty well. She says she does not want to stay at that point.  I say that I am shouldering the heaviest of the load.  While I am where I am at, she just started a $11 an hour job and cut back on her cleaning which paid more and we have spent over $2k in expenses for her job so far.  So it is almost easier i would think for her to grow faster at this point than me.

I point out that I should have been fired at this point for the past week and the outbursts and arguments she had with me at work so i do not think it is a good time

She says i am always blaming her and making her feel like ___.  I tell her she is not ___ and that i believe in her.  That we both make mistakes at times but that does not make us bad people.  I know I have certainly screwed up.

Back to the divorce crap now.  I roll into work 40 minutes later than usual... and have to help some people with her wondering why i am not texting sooner. I explain that I do have work.  She says I do not care.  I say i do, but just like when she cannot talk at her job... I have same situation sometimes but I am putting people on hold at that moment to talk to her.  She says we are done. 

Every single weekend we do this.

She told me she canceled work and everything today and going to bed that i ruined things .  I told her I cannot handle this.  I said I wish i had been aborted since im too cowardly to kill myself.  I shouldnt have said it... I feel it.  I wish I had.  especailly cause she is blowing up my phone at this time im sure about the aboration comment which I didnt think through

[ForeverDad]

Then she asks me when I am going to get a raise from my job with my mother since I been there 3 years without one.  I explain that its not really the best time since we are finishing up some trust issues and I am named a problem.  I say that I am not sure I am really worth anymore, especially since I am working my other job at this one.

She goes off about if we are going to stay together she needs to know our future and I have to do something about it.  I explain that I have been increasing and that I am mid career at this point and that raises are not just guaranteed things... .  I say that I am shouldering the heaviest of the load.  While I am where I am at, she just started a $11 an hour job and cut back on her cleaning which paid more and we have spent over $2k in expenses for her job so far.  So it is almost easier i would think for her to grow faster at this point than me.

I point out that I should have been fired at this point for the past week and the outbursts and arguments she had with me at work so i do not think it is a good time.

Have you not yet learned that you can't reason with someone who won't truly listen?  Yes, you do have to try your reasonable best to avoid any risk of being seen later in court as an ogre but don't expect her to respond positively, or for any positive admission to last for very long. That's a trait of the Blaming and Blame-Shifting, her rules apply to you, not to her.

A pithy observation that has sometimes been attributed to various notable people of past ages, "Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results."  You've tried many times.  And ultimately failed every time.  Further attempts are likely to fail as well.

Also, I too am stunned that throughout my final year together, separation, divorce and years of trying to parent afterward I wasn't let go.  However, it did ruin my health and combined with everything else, like adding that one straw onto the camel's back, I been getting poor job reviews.

I know I have certainly screwed up.

Yes, we all have, but it's minimal when compared to the other person.  The problem is that she's gotten you to readily admit that repeatedly while she never or almost never admits to her mistakes.  Beware!  If she makes allegations against you to police or court, she has you conditioned to say, "I was wrong but... ."  News flash, they'll only listen to the Admission of Guilt ("I did wrong" and ignore all the extenuating details of how little you were wrong.  You better STOP that pattern - that attempt isn't working anyway - or at some point it may sink you legally.

Repeat, none of us are perfect, we all make minor mistakes all the time, beware of apologizing for not being perfect, it will trip you up one day at precisely the worst of times.

She told me she canceled work and everything today and going to bed that I ruined things .  I told her I cannot handle this.  I said I wish I had been aborted since I'm too cowardly to kill myself.  I shouldn't have said it.

Another news flash... .She is again guilting you.  Hear that?  Guilting you.  You are NOT guilty.  Come on, you didn't ruin her day, she ruined your day, this is projection!  Stop letting her poop in your head.  Yeah, that's right, she's messed up to do it, but you're letting her smear it all over.  (Sorry, for the yucky comparison but it fits, doesn't it?)

Another news flash... .At some point she may claim you are suicidal, that you've said suicidal things.  Maybe she's recorded them or saved the texts!  Who knows?  Do you see how she could potentially be maneuvering you into sabotaging yourself?

You need to build an impenetrable shield emotionally to protect yourself from her endless barbs.  Imagine them bouncing harmlessly off your shield.  Distance yourself from the immediacy of her attacks.  Once you can do that you can (in time) begin to laugh inside at her fruitless attempts to break you and keep you wallowing in her muck and mire.  You can (inside) tell yourself, "No way does that apply to me, this is ridiculous, I know better now, you're just projecting your own behaviors onto me and I'm too smart now to fall for that ploy!"

[hurthusband]

Thanks I needed to hear that.  I was at psychiatrist yesterday... i just do not know...

I cannot do anything here and she is just in so much pain.  I want to stop it for her.  I cannot.  I do care, but at same time its to the point to save myself I might have to sacrifice her and her kids.  That is gut wrenching and guilt in of itself...

[Mutt]

Foreverdad is right. I'm glad that you're seeing a P and keep seeing the P.

I'm sorry but at some point it is to save you and the kids. You're not sacrificing her. This may be the catalyst for her to get help to help herself.

You need to get healthy for the kids. Don't let the mentally ill lead the charge. FIGHT for yourself and the kids, they need someone in their corner and that's you.

[Moselle]

You need to get healthy for the kids. Don't let the mentally ill lead the charge. FIGHT for yourself and the kids, they need someone in their corner and that's you.

Thanks Mutt, those are inspiring words. And so true.

[catnap]

She, despite you going above and beyond to help her, consistently blames you for everything.  She does not want to change.  She CANNOT see that her behavior and choices are the main problem for her unhappiness.  That is not your fault. 

She pulls the divorce card quite often doesn't she? 

As FD says: Stop letting her poop in your head. 

[ForeverDad]

My ex too moaned, groaned, lay in bed and blamed me for everything.  Guess what?  After we separated I never heard even once that she couldn't get out of bed.  Sure, I was still blamed but I realized her posturing as a suffering waif was at least partly an act just for me.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that your spouse stops her moaning and groaning too when she no longer has you as a captive/targeted audience.  She will still blame you as before but you'll be at a distance by then and distance does provide you a significant measure of relief from the immediacy and intensity of her manipulations and strategies to keep you groveling and suffering.