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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Breaking away from my own codependency  (Read 8456 times)
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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2014, 10:35:55 PM »

Jammo be careful with all that.

I have personally known a few people that have gotten screwed over and decided they weren't going to let people push them around anymore and take a stand for themself they even describe themselves as alpha males.   Some of these people became  narcissistic douchebags that hold others in contempt to uphold the idea of themselves.  What comes to mind is the classic stereotype of the bullied kid that grows up to be a cop or teacher on a power trip.

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« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2014, 11:07:25 PM »

Jammo

If you have a lot of empathy that's a good thing man. If you close yourself off from your emotions over one bad relationship with someone then the disorder really has won.  If you examine the alpha male crap closely it's a marketing ploy  to justify mysoginy and malignant narcisissm. It just gives me this vibe that it was devised as a cultural thing in the states by psychopaths to make their mindset into a cultural ideal.
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« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2014, 11:20:37 PM »

Jammo

If you have a lot of empathy that's a good thing man. If you close yourself off from your emotions over one bad relationship with someone then the disorder really has won.  If you examine the alpha male crap closely it's a marketing ploy  to justify mysoginy and malignant narcisissm. It just gives me this vibe that it was devised as a cultural thing in the states by psychopaths to make their mindset into a cultural ideal.

you also don't want to be a weak man either. Alpha men can have empathy. I'm a ruthless businessman but I also donate my time. And love people.
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2014, 02:51:11 AM »

Jammo

If you have a lot of empathy that's a good thing man. If you close yourself off from your emotions over one bad relationship with someone then the disorder really has won.  If you examine the alpha male crap closely it's a marketing ploy  to justify mysoginy and malignant narcisissm. It just gives me this vibe that it was devised as a cultural thing in the states by psychopaths to make their mindset into a cultural ideal.

you also don't want to be a weak man either. Alpha men can have empathy. I'm a ruthless businessman but I also donate my time. And love people.

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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2014, 03:40:46 AM »

All this talk of Co dependency, has anyone stopped and thought well, I only tried helping this person out that is my bad. This is only time I've ever been with a disordered person and hopefully the last time.

Not everyone on these boards is codependent. Most of us, though, did have at least a codependent relationship (the only relationship I've ever had where codependency was an issue was with my BPDex), which is why it gets discussed so much. For most of us, we got sucked in way deeper than simply trying to help someone out.

you also don't want to be a weak man either. Alpha men can have empathy. I'm a ruthless businessman but I also donate my time. And love people.

I think part of my issue with this whole made up concept of being "Alpha" is that it generalizes people to a stupid degree. Not all Alpha males have to act like self-absorbed jerks. Not all beta males are insecure weaklings. Some people have very strong, out going personalities. Some don't. That doesn't make one type intrinsically superior to the other.

Really, my biggest problem with the whole commercialized "Alpha male" concept is that in most cases, it's a catch phrase for people trying to take advantage of those with self-esteem issues. It tells you that you aren't good enough, and that to be happy, you have to change who you are. Self improvement is great. It's something we should all strive for. But there's a difference between trying to fix some flaws, and pretending to be a different person. Personally, I think it's much healthier to learn to be comfortable with who you are, and appreciate yourself for all your strengths and weaknesses. That's where true self-esteem and confidence comes from. And neither of those things belong exclusively to "Alpha Males".
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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2014, 04:46:20 AM »

Excerpt
But there's a difference between trying to fix some flaws, and pretending to be a different person.

I think the important factor here is not pretending to be a different person. The idea, especially if you have co-dependency issues is to get some healthy boundaries in place. You have to decide for yourself, what you can accept and not accept. Yes, I was desperately lonely when I met my ex, and even saw the red flags. But because of my issues and not having healthy boundaries, I fell for it.
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« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2014, 06:35:47 AM »

like i stated before i gave myself this mind set to protect me from my own depression, i dont look down on others, but when someone tries to hurt you you have to think and express your attributes to avoid the negative emotion, she had a great catch and she threw it away. 

I believe in myself and my worth as a human being.  It becomes a "negative attribute" when I attach my worth to a person that I feel is less than me in some way, in order for me to feel better about myself.

Negative emotions aren't going anywhere in this lifetime!  They are part of life.  Avoiding them by giving ourselves mindsets are akin to wearing masks, pretending not to feel negative emotions, i.e., defense mechanisms = the new and improved Alpha Male

Healthy self-esteem is a wonderful thing!  Unfortunately, I don't believe many of us had this upon entering our relationships.  Our partners can't take away what we didn't have to begin with, nor can they build our "self"-esteem up from the ground floor. 

jammo, if you believe you have codependent tendencies, then good for you in recognizing it Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  It's a great starting gate for change.  Change takes place from within.  Read up on codependency.

Within all of those negative emotions that we try so hard to avoid, there are truths about ourselves; some of them are false-truths we've been telling ourselves for years... .that we're not good enough, not even for someone who we feel has so much less than us to recognize.  Hey, screw that!  I'm better than her!  I'm better than him!  I have this that and the other... .they don't.

We have ourselves!  Who are we when not attaching ourselves, our "attributes" to another person?

The answers come from within and they have nothing to do with what somebody else has or doesn't have

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« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2014, 06:58:21 AM »

Alpha male is a strange concept. At work I am the best in my field so I am Alpha in that environment.  At parties I am somewhat shy so definitely not Alpha at a party.  In a Gym I am the opposite of Alpha since I never bother lifting metal.  Playing scrabble I always win so definitely Alpha doing that.  I suspect the ex is in an endless search for Mr Alpha.  Ofcourse when she does find him he will want some intimacy since he is the complete man.  That will just scare her away though.
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« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2014, 08:04:50 AM »

Woman whether healthy or Cluster Bs want a man that can handle any situation they throw at you, so DONT YOU DARE text them saying i miss you, i love you, can we meet up?  because all your doing here is showing her that she has the power here and not you, and especially for Narcs this power gives them a feeling of superiority.  You must not and can not talk to them like you want them back or want to be friends, it doesnt work like that they are emotional vampires, and you are NOT their emotional dildo for when they want you.

So the moral of this story is, im a MAN not the little boy. She wanted to bully in the playground, Cluster Bs are like dogs they can sense weakness just by looking at you, so initiate NC and show that you are men, flirt with them, not because you love them, but to show them that you will NOT bow to their bull s h i t!

My ex always used to say to me your going to cry over me one day, your going to chase me because all my other exes do, and you know what? I am the 1st guy she has ever blocked completely, and do you know why that is? Its because im an ALPHA male, i dont chase and i sure as hell dont bow to someone who was and still is below me in every aspect of life!    

Is the point simply to not beg once a girl breaks up?
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« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2014, 08:14:36 AM »

If i had to be completely honest with myself on this topic, I have never been the overly confident type and codependency is a big issue with me, but this is where it gets extremely interesting, when dating a Narc like my ex, you always felt as if you were being compared to others, she made this alpha male.  Yes i agree, its you that makes that decision to change, but id like to share some examples of what im trying to describe:

Sex with her wasn't just sex it was solely based on role play and she needed to be the submissive during these sexual encounters, and im not talking about the i love you intimacy im talking about the treat me like  your little ___ intimacy, hand cuffs and other extremes.  Why am i talking about this? because, Im not that kind of person, she took me from this shy guy to being this incredible God that she described.  Yes i understand this was probably her her way of saying to me " tell me im the best you've ever had" and she did many times.  When someone is being constantly judged its not love i understand that now, but over a long period of time the same traits of thinking i started to produce.  For example:

Her: This guy asked me on a date the other day

Me: What some little council house boy who lives his life in trackies?


Yeah, not the best response you could give, but when youve been with a Narc you will understand that, If you dont sell yourself by being alpha male, they will either walk all over you or emotionally destroy you.  Another honest example, that id like to share:

Her ex husband was better than me, Ill admit it, they were married, had 2 children together, he had a car, i didnt at the time and he was in the army, but she still cheated on him numerous times with no guilt, but here is the catch and its incredibly important.  

I just admitted that she was better off with him than me and he had so much more to offer, BUT... .he used to cry down the phone to her, cried to her in person telling her how much you've hurt me and that he loved her with his heart, and you know what? she didn't care or feel guilt towards him.  Where as, i never once cried over her, I never appeared weak towards her emotionally, I told myself "You will not let her feed her ego with your emotions" and as a result of this I was blocked and discarded.

So the point here is, alpha male is a positive mind set, its not how you look, what you earn and so forth.  Yes i did state before I have this and she doesn't but that just backs up my alpha male mind set regarding this situation.  Anybody whos been with a true narc will tell you that, you will always be compared to others and there's 2 ending to this chapter.

1. Believe their rubbish and channel your emotions inwards resulting in depression and a low self worth  

2. Saying to yourself "She didn't deserve me in the first place"

If im going to be compared to others by her, then im going to at least compare others to me, like her new bf for example, shes gone from a pretty comfortable lifestyle to a jobless boy racer who still lives with his mum in a council house its her loss.      

       
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« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2014, 08:16:24 AM »

Woman whether healthy or Cluster Bs want a man that can handle any situation they throw at you, so DONT YOU DARE text them saying i miss you, i love you, can we meet up?  because all your doing here is showing her that she has the power here and not you, and especially for Narcs this power gives them a feeling of superiority.  You must not and can not talk to them like you want them back or want to be friends, it doesnt work like that they are emotional vampires, and you are NOT their emotional dildo for when they want you.

So the moral of this story is, im a MAN not the little boy. She wanted to bully in the playground, Cluster Bs are like dogs they can sense weakness just by looking at you, so initiate NC and show that you are men, flirt with them, not because you love them, but to show them that you will NOT bow to their bull s h i t!

My ex always used to say to me your going to cry over me one day, your going to chase me because all my other exes do, and you know what? I am the 1st guy she has ever blocked completely, and do you know why that is? Its because im an ALPHA male, i dont chase and i sure as hell dont bow to someone who was and still is below me in every aspect of life!    

Is the point simply to not beg once a girl breaks up?

Straight to the point there Skip, yeah im basically saying don't chase because If you do they will only pull you back into the vortex ready to use you when needed via mind games, and nobody deserves this!  
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« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2014, 08:57:59 AM »

So what did i do? I laughed at her, smiled back and said your gonna miss this sexy voice (had banter) she then smiled and said im bored of talking to you know go away, so i said awwww am i to hot for you to handle? and she stormed off, havent spoken to her since 4 months NC.

So the moral of this story is, im a MAN not the little boy. She wanted to bully in the playground, Cluster Bs are like dogs they can sense weakness just by looking at you, so initiate NC and show that you are men, flirt with them, not because you love them, but to show them that you will NOT bow to their bull s h i t!

So if you made it that far to not react even after the final discard, celebrate because you are now whats known as a Narc Slayer.

How do "we initiate NC and show that we are men, flirt with them, not because we love them, but to show them that we will NOT bow to their bs!" It seems contradictory.

And "not react even after the final discard= Narc Slayer".  What are we slaying?  When someone discards us, they have lost their attraction.  This also seems contradictory.

Respectfully, this seems like tilting at windmills.

There is humiliation in being devalued- it's painful. But the hard truth may be that we stayed when we were being devalued - we accepted it and accepted it, one small step at a time.  We became increasingly clingy.

The lesson I learned in all of this is to read these signs in ourselves earlier and stop.

The hard question is, why we didn't recognize that we are becoming clingy (codependent) and deal with it? Or maybe how do we recognize that we are becoming clingy and deal with it?

Exactly Skip. Thats what the problem is for me. Recognize my Co-D and work on that. Im not willing to engage her at all. She's "toast" in my life. I just need to keep it from happening again.
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« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2014, 08:59:04 AM »

Straight to the point there Skip, yeah im basically saying don't chase because If you do they will only pull you back into the vortex ready to use you when needed via mind games, and nobody deserves this!

This is good advice.  When someone breaks up, take it serious and walk away.

Sometimes it is best to boil it down. Linking this to "power" or "alpha male" or generalizing it to "codependency" is confusing as you can see in the posts above.  Alpha male has to do with the pecking order in a pack.

Personally, I see more as a values/boundaries discussion.  If your values include monogamy, and your boundary is no Facebook flirting, then stepping away is upholding your values - living your values.

Does this description make sense: https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries
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« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2014, 09:01:43 AM »

Woman whether healthy or Cluster Bs want a man that can handle any situation they throw at you, so DONT YOU DARE text them saying i miss you, i love you, can we meet up?  because all your doing here is showing her that she has the power here and not you, and especially for Narcs this power gives them a feeling of superiority.

jammo, any links on the cluster B stuff?
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« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2014, 09:07:13 AM »

Woman whether healthy or Cluster Bs want a man that can handle any situation they throw at you, so DONT YOU DARE text them saying i miss you, i love you, can we meet up?  because all your doing here is showing her that she has the power here and not you, and especially for Narcs this power gives them a feeling of superiority.

 

jammo, any links on the cluster B stuff?

Any Cluster B type in particular? My ex was a Narc, so a lot of the links ive used in my research is based on these traits, hence why Im so involved on these forums trying to help others who have or may have experienced these types of personalities.  A lot of the BPD I have learned on this forum, HeeeltoHeal is excellent with his answers, but if you feel as though your ex was very much like ive described I can most certainly help!  
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« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2014, 09:21:22 AM »

Straight to the point there Skip, yeah im basically saying don't chase because If you do they will only pull you back into the vortex ready to use you when needed via mind games, and nobody deserves this!

This is good advice.  When someone breaks up, take it serious and walk away.

Sometimes it is best to boil it down. Linking this to "power" or "alpha male" or generalizing it to "codependency" is confusing as you can see in the posts above.  Alpha male has to do with the pecking order in a pack.

Personally, I see more as a values/boundaries discussion.  If your values include monogamy, and your boundary is no Facebook flirting, then stepping away is upholding your values - living your values.

Does this description make sense: https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Yeah it very much makes sense Skip thank you, but Id also like to highlight something ive learnt from personal experience and it goes hand in hand with the alpha male mindset that I have spoken about.  

In my opinion the BPD is hurting and they try to let you in but cant because of defensive mechanisms, so one feels powerless to protect the one they love.  Ok, so with that in mind, I feel as if its perfectly natural for co dependency to take control because they try to love but cant " I love you... .but please leave alone" So empathy is a natural response to feeling the inner pain of a BPD, its almost like a lost child crying out for someone to protect her.

Where as, the NPD (my ex) is like the queen who expects her fan club to compliment and validate her.  The NPD doesn't give off that natural reaction of deserving your empathy during the devalue and discard stages.  They are merely looking down at you saying "If you dont pull your weight ill drop you in a second" A perfect example of this is as follows:

MY EX: I have better looking boy mates than you

my natural reaction: she thinks im ugly, why ould she say that?

but what she actually was saying is this: I have loads of guys that are interested in me, and if i wanted to i could drop you in a second

So with the NPD you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you dont she will drop you in a second, Id rather be banished from her kingdom because i was to much of a challenge for her games, than her keep me on the back burner because she knew she could manipulate me when needed, I hope that all made sense SKIP.

 
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« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2014, 09:38:24 AM »

So with the NPD you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you dont she will drop you in a second, Id rather be banished from her kingdom because i was to much of a challenge for her games, than her keep me on the back burner because she knew she could manipulate me when needed, I hope that all made sense SKIP.

But she did drop you and she moved on.  You confronted her, she broke it off.  There was 2 weeks of chaos. You said enough. She dated the other guy.  So no, I don't understand "you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you don't she will drop you in a second" at all.  Unless this is another way of saying if you had it to do over, "don't become clingy".

Also, jammo1989, what actually was going on with the other guy when you first discovered things ("I had noticed on her FB she was liking a lot of pictures from this guy")? Do you know? Had it gone further than liking photos or Facebook banter?  :)id you and her have a calm conversation about it or was it you getting upset and accusing her, and her acting with extreme defensiveness?

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« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2014, 09:47:43 AM »

Straight to the point there Skip, yeah im basically saying don't chase because If you do they will only pull you back into the vortex ready to use you when needed via mind games, and nobody deserves this!

This is good advice.  When someone breaks up, take it serious and walk away.

Sometimes it is best to boil it down. Linking this to "power" or "alpha male" or generalizing it to "codependency" is confusing as you can see in the posts above.  Alpha male has to do with the pecking order in a pack.

Personally, I see more as a values/boundaries discussion.  If your values include monogamy, and your boundary is no Facebook flirting, then stepping away is upholding your values - living your values.

Does this description make sense: https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

I can agree with skip on this. Labels are thrown a lot around here. My ex left me because I shifted into confronting her on things. I'm not co dependent by no means. Most of you guys tried your best and put other people before you, that's not a bad thing unless it consumed you.
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« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2014, 09:59:54 AM »

So with the NPD you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you dont she will drop you in a second, Id rather be banished from her kingdom because i was to much of a challenge for her games, than her keep me on the back burner because she knew she could manipulate me when needed, I hope that all made sense SKIP.

But she did drop you and she moved on.  You confronted her, she broke it off.  There was 2 weeks of chaos. You said enough. She dated the other guy.  So no, I don't understand "you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you don't she will drop you in a second" at all.  Unless this is another way of saying if you had it to do over, "don't be clingy".

Also, jammo1989, what actually was going on with the other guy when you first discovered things? Do you know? Was it just Facebook flirting or had it gone further?  :)id you and her have a calm conversation about it or was it you getting upset and accusing and her acting with extreme defensiveness?

The guy in question had known her for a while, she started liking all his pictures on FB, I told her its not really acceptable, because if i liked or even talked to one of my gfs on Fb, it was literally world war 3, the excessive jealousy was just to much at times!  He then messaged her saying lets meet up for some drinks, she replied with yeah sounds good.  I then questioned her by saying you know he likes you and you know hes a player so why are you putting yourself in this position? I was called needy and insecure BUT based on her past she is the kind of girl to go out and cheat, she began even more flirty behavior towards him, and there came a point where I knew what was going on so i said im done.  The day after he posted a status on Facebook saying something like off to ... .for a few days cant wait :D  
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« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2014, 10:03:09 AM »

Sorry it went down like that. 
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« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2014, 10:08:02 AM »

Sorry it went down like that.  

Maybe alpha male to me means taking control of a situation, or setting strong boundaries, because even though it finished the way it did, it would have carried on hence her wanting to meet up with me again, and the emotional response in the end wasn't a feeling of low self worth it was more  i should have known better.  
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« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2014, 10:18:52 AM »

Sorry it went down like that. 

Maybe alpha male to me means taking control of a situation, or setting strong boundaries, because even though it finished the way it did, it would have carried on hence her wanting to meet up with me again, and the emotional response in the end wasnt a feeling of self worth it was i should have known better.   

Alpha means leader of the pack. Nothing is wrong with being strong and holding your ground buddy. I have to do that too. Be strong and don't let someone invade your privacy or space. Most men are beta. And yes beta means weak.
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« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2014, 10:25:00 AM »

Most men are beta. And yes beta means weak.

Good to know   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2014, 10:32:00 AM »

Sorry it went down like that. 

Maybe alpha male to me means taking control of a situation, or setting strong boundaries, because even though it finished the way it did, it would have carried on hence her wanting to meet up with me again, and the emotional response in the end wasnt a feeling of self worth it was i should have known better.   

Alpha means leader of the pack. Nothing is wrong with being strong and holding your ground buddy. I have to do that too. Be strong and don't let someone invade your privacy or space. Most men are beta. And yes beta means weak.

Thanks hurting that make sense, I was always the one making the plans in the relationship, spending the money making sure all 3 of them were happy and satisfied with life, maybe  at times she felt she was below me, that I will never know, the relationship i encountered was destined to fail from the start as the 1st 8 months we were in a relationship she was still living with her husband 6 hours away in Army accommodation, how i managed to keep my insecurities at bay in that situation I will never know.
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« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2014, 10:32:28 AM »

So with the NPD you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you dont she will drop you in a second, Id rather be banished from her kingdom because i was to much of a challenge for her games, than her keep me on the back burner because she knew she could manipulate me when needed,

Not to pile on ya here, jammo, but - what you're describing here is altering yourself as a means to continue engaging in an un-winnable 'game'.

I have a very vivid memory of what was going through my mind as I left the house for the last time. If, during one of the previous break ups, I had won 3 consecutive Powerball Lotteries, 2 Nobel prizes, and been elected King of the World, I still would have ended up driving away in that moving truck.

Food for thought - Altering your behavior for the Facebook example you cite may or may not have temporarily prolonged the inevitable, but the relationship was in deep trouble long before that.
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« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2014, 10:45:44 AM »

So with the NPD you MUST take hold of that alpha male mind set, because if you dont she will drop you in a second, Id rather be banished from her kingdom because i was to much of a challenge for her games, than her keep me on the back burner because she knew she could manipulate me when needed,

Not to pile on ya here, jammo, but - what you're describing here is altering yourself as a means to continue engaging in an un-winnable 'game'.

I have a very vivid memory of what was going through my mind as I left the house for the last time. If, during one of the previous break ups, I had won 3 consecutive Powerball Lotteries, 2 Nobel prizes, and been elected King of the World, I still would have ended up driving away in that moving truck.

Food for thought - Altering your behavior for the Facebook example you cite may or may not have temporarily prolonged the inevitable, but the relationship was in deep trouble long before that.

And thats exactly how it felt, trying to change who I really was to satisfy her by  putting up with with unreasonable behavior, which in reality was only justifying that her behavior was acceptable by fueling the fire.  I grew to realize and understand that, there will always be a back at all times, and if their isn't they will be on their best behavior.     
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« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2014, 11:03:43 AM »

The relationship i encountered was destined to fail from the start as the 1st 8 months we were in a relationship she was still living with her husband 6 hours away in Army accommodation, how i managed to keep my insecurities at bay in that situation I will never know.

So now that you know "alpha male"... .how would that be best applied to the first 8 months?

So looking back over the entire experience... .what was the greatest lesson learned?  
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« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2014, 12:28:21 PM »

The relationship i encountered was destined to fail from the start as the 1st 8 months we were in a relationship she was still living with her husband 6 hours away in Army accommodation, how i managed to keep my insecurities at bay in that situation I will never know.

So now that you know "alpha male"... .how would that be best applied to the first 8 months?

So looking back over the entire experience... .what was the greatest lesson learned?  

It wasn't applied for the first 8 months, because during this period she was loving me or should i say mirroring me in her idealization period.  So i never felt I had to change because in her eyes I was Mr Perfect, it was only after this period where I had to or should I say felt that I had to always be on alert for any negative remarks regarding  being compared with others.  For example, gfs in the bath while im talking to her, from out of no where

"If you were about 6ft 2 and had tattoos you'd be perfect" (im 5ft 11 btw)

Its this kind of behavior that changes your own mind set because If i were to say yeah i wish i was taller to, she would sense my response as feeling inadequate in her eyes.

The greatest lesson learned was, understanding and realizing that these relationships never last, and the longer you stay in them the weaker your boundaries.  I have also learned about the many red flags, so if anyone else is reading up on this topic i would first focus and evaluate your own needs before others when in a relationship with a Cluster B.         
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« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2014, 01:13:58 PM »

jammo, there are similarities in our experiences... .married, kids, etc. - every red flag there could be, not just waving right in front of me, but beating me over the head. I completely (and knowingly) sacrificed all of my own values, standards and intuitions to dive head-first into the mess. I was absolutely intoxicated by the idealization, not to mention the whole damsel in distress bit. I never even thought to ask myself, "If she's capable of doing what she's doing to be with me, why wouldn't she eventually do the same to me?"

I'm about two years out now. At this point, I know more than I need to about her disorders and dysfunctions. I have zero desire to adapt myself in any way to better handle being in a relationship with her or anyone as broken as her. As for the alpha/beta thing, it ultimately wouldn't matter within relationships like these anyway. Their dysfunctions will always be a step ahead of anyone. Just some thoughts. YMMV.
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« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2014, 01:20:45 PM »

I have also learned about the many red flags, so if anyone else is reading up on this topic i would first focus and evaluate your own needs before others when in a relationship with a Cluster B.        

jammo1989, you might be missing the forest for the trees.

How about having an affair with a married women? Bad idea?

How about being in a rebound relationship after a divorce? Bad idea?

#1 The big lesson (I'm not getting on you, BTW, just reaching out) is not about "alpha male" or cluster B, it's about "values/boundaries". This relationship was wrong on day 1.  For example, if monogamy is a value of yours... .you didn't walk the talk.  How can you expect her to have this value now if neither of you had it to start with?

And rebound relationships have a very high mortality rate. Easy to identify.  Easy to avoid.

#2 The BPD or NPD traits often don't show until we are "all in" into the relationship and months down the road -  learning to recognize them and accept them as unresolvable and step away is the secondary level lesson.  Hard to do but a good goal.

#3 Being an "alpha male" if that means when she is breaking up / stepping out you let go, is a third level lesson. Maintain your dignity as best you an in a humiliating situation.

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