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Author Topic: Do you think they ever loved you, or were just afraid of being alone?  (Read 10183 times)
jhkbuzz
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« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2015, 02:19:13 PM »

Oh... .I think yes ... .they most definitely loved us... .it was real for them.  ... BUT... .I have come to believe that was the mind of a very small child.  I think that a child's love (from a child) is one of the most beautiful things on the planet... .

I have seen people use this reference, 'love like a small child'... .what does that mean?

BPD is a disorder of emotional arrested development.
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« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2015, 03:16:28 PM »

The closest I can ever get to the "truth" is to take the things my exgf said during her rational moments.  Stitching together the things she said over many disparate moments, this is what I accept as real:

1) She really did love me.  During moments of clarity she said to me, "Right now I can see who you truly are without all of my doubts and fears blurring it and when I ask myself if I actually love you for you and not just the idea of someone to cling to, I know in my heart that I do love you and I honestly say to myself, 'I really do love this man!  I think he's great!'"

2) She intuitively knew that she could never get too comfortable in our relationship because she felt it was a matter of time before she would do something to screw it all up.  She explained it as if she feared one day she would wake up to realize that our relationship was over, as if somebody else took over her body and smashed her life and everything she loved to bits, and then she would "wake up" or "come back" to see that the person she loved and wanted to spend her life with was gone for good and never wanted to talk to her again - and it was all her fault.

3) She was aware that there was something different about her own mind.  She knew she was a lot more emotional and sensitive than most people.  She said things like "I'm just f-ed in the head!" and "I am really worried that I genetically acquired some of the traits of paranoia that seemed to exist along my mom's lineage.  There were really bad things that happened in their lives that would explain that paranoia but sometimes I get scared that it's genetic and that I have it too because sometimes I get fears that are completely irrational but I still can't overcome them.  And I know what my dad went through with my mom and I don't want to be a burden to you in the same way."


I'm sure there are others.  I'll have to make a list sometime to try to keep things in perspective. 

The point I'm making is that the closest I can ever get to "reality" are from the statements made in those fleeting lucid states where she wasn't creating chaos or when she wasn't regressed into a child-like state.  It was those moments when I was interacting with a rational person who was self-reflecting that gives me the most clarity.  And it's also so incredibly sad that I couldn't have that mature and aware "form" of her around consistently - because THAT'S the person I fell deeply in love with.  And I would give my left kidney, lung, and testicle to be able to have and love that form of her in a healthy relationship for the rest of my life.
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« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2015, 04:06:56 PM »

Oh... .I think yes ... .they most definitely loved us... .it was real for them.  ... BUT... .I have come to believe that was the mind of a very small child.  I think that a child's love (from a child) is one of the most beautiful things on the planet... .

I have seen people use this reference, 'love like a small child'... .what does that mean?

I agree with paperlung's reference up above on the page... . 

I believe in my ex's damage occurred when her father ran off when she was 5 years old.  He was such an ass... he even took the family dog.  Anyone can say what they will (I had no knowledge of BPD until well after the relationship), but I believe that my ex was soo emotionally damaged by the abandonment from her father... plus... .her Mom is a REALLY great lady... .but the abandonment damaged her incredibly as well.   Imagine being a sensitive five year old (only child)... .Dad and the dog are gone and Mom is completely devastated and in deep deep grief and mourning.  I get it now... .my ex was destroyed as a child.  In many ways I think that her development was arrested emotionally.  She is very childlike, and self-centered.  Think of the damage and the unprocessed anger and resentment toward men about that abandonment.

Funny... .she could love pets like no one I ever saw... .like a child.  When it came to loving adult men ... .initially that is exciting... but it eventually falls short for both people. It cannot be sustained... .and if there is not mature, deep love and nurturing after the glow period on both people's part... .there just isn't much there... .

"you didn't hold my hand the right way!" ... .is kind of hard to field with an adult child... .and they think that that is a reason to go shopping for another man.  Childish.
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2015, 04:16:37 PM »

Oh... .I think yes ... .they most definitely loved us... .it was real for them.  ... BUT... .I have come to believe that was the mind of a very small child.  I think that a child's love (from a child) is one of the most beautiful things on the planet... .

I have seen people use this reference, 'love like a small child'... .what does that mean?

I agree with paperlung's reference up above on the page... .

 

Apparently not my ex. That analogy did not sit very well with her, as you know.
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« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2015, 06:22:59 PM »

I was thinking about this some more.   My ex was extremely damaged as a child.  She is very familiar with that deep, deep pain of abandonment. She went on and on when I first met her about this "boyfriend" who took her on a cruise and then spent the entire cruise with another woman and how terribly painful it was... .now... .as far as I can see it was just to get my sympathy and to have me come to her "emotional rescue". Yet her favorite move is "cut and run".   She abandons everyone who truly loves her... .and then goes out of her way to emotionally destroy the person that she abandons.  She did it to me with her new supply over and over again in public places. HUH?

I was once on the beach with her.  I mentioned that an ex of mine was sitting nearby (who I had empathy for and who I was respectful of). My girl decided to jump in my lap and squirm around... .?  I asked her to stop immediately and to consider the other person's  feelings.  Little did I know that it would soon be me on the other end of her childish behavior.

Only an extremely mentally ill person would do that in my book.   I know everyone has an opinion, though.
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JRT
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« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2015, 06:26:57 PM »

That IS childish!
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« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2015, 08:29:44 PM »

I can say with 100% certainty that she did love me ... .until she could not do it !(after she got dysregulated)   She did lot of things to make me happy... .make me laugh... supported me emotionally when I needed and enjoyed time together. Sometimes, she did try to give advice as best as she could.

I believe that they do love you when they have you in their "white mode" but once painted black... they just CAN NOT love you and you really get hurt. Mine did  not want to hurt me on purpose as I saw how helpless she was once controlled by the disorder ... she became totally what she was not. I believe it was not she... .it was the disorder which caused me so much pain.

Its so easy to forgive her now that I understand the real reason for her evil behavior at the end of R/S. IT'S THE DISORDER, STUPID !
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Ripped Heart
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« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2015, 01:13:33 AM »

I love this post.  5 months out of the r/s and I am increasingly looking at myself in the r/s instead of my exBPDgf... .it feels good.  Sometimes painful and difficult, but good.

When I met my ex I was deeply unhappy (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240301.msg12557678#msg12557678) and looking for a way out of the circumstances I was in.  If I really think back (8 years... .it takes some effort Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)!) I remember the beginning of the r/s... .being cautious... .wondering if she was too needy... .even trying to decide if I was attracted to her because she was overweight. I know I was eventually won over by her seductiveness and the fact that she was soo into me. Did I really fall in love her the way I told her I did? Maybe I needed to fall in love her at that point in my life to help me escape from my own pain.  Maybe she did the same.  That doesn't mean that either one of us were acting in a "premeditated" way

My brain works in a very different way to others and as such, I often think outside the box. For example, you ask anyone what the colour red is and most people can describe it to you. Its the colour of passion, the colour on a stop light, the colour of danger and we all point to something and say its red. But how do you know we are all seeing exactly the same thing? What I perceive as red might be what you see as green but we are all taught that this is the colour red so its the same for all of us. We trust in what we see just as we do in what we feel. But it isn't always the same and someone with colour blindness is proof of that.

My BPDgf told me she adored me on our first date, within a couple of weeks she told me she loved me but it didn't stop there. I told her I loved her too. I felt what I perceived as love from what I had been taught love was so it had to be true. It might not be what someone else's definition of love is but its what I knew it to be. So if that was the case for me, it must have been the same for her so yes, there was definitely love from both sides but a very different feeling for both given what we both knew love to be.

Now if you remove the romanticised ideal of love, it is in fact a chemical reaction within our own brains so again, regardless of how quick it was professed, it had to have been there. I know when I said it, initially I had a moment of reservation but I think hearing those words from her and waiting my life for acceptance is what caused my chemical reaction.



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« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2015, 01:22:42 AM »

I love this post.  5 months out of the r/s and I am increasingly looking at myself in the r/s instead of my exBPDgf... .it feels good.  Sometimes painful and difficult, but good.

When I met my ex I was deeply unhappy (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240301.msg12557678#msg12557678) and looking for a way out of the circumstances I was in.  If I really think back (8 years... .it takes some effort Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)!) I remember the beginning of the r/s... .being cautious... .wondering if she was too needy... .even trying to decide if I was attracted to her because she was overweight. I know I was eventually won over by her seductiveness and the fact that she was soo into me. Did I really fall in love her the way I told her I did? Maybe I needed to fall in love her at that point in my life to help me escape from my own pain.  Maybe she did the same.  That doesn't mean that either one of us were acting in a "premeditated" way

My brain works in a very different way to others and as such, I often think outside the box. For example, you ask anyone what the colour red is and most people can describe it to you. Its the colour of passion, the colour on a stop light, the colour of danger and we all point to something and say its red. But how do you know we are all seeing exactly the same thing? What I perceive as red might be what you see as green but we are all taught that this is the colour red so its the same for all of us. We trust in what we see just as we do in what we feel. But it isn't always the same and someone with colour blindness is proof of that.

My BPDgf told me she adored me on our first date, within a couple of weeks she told me she loved me but it didn't stop there. I told her I loved her too. I felt what I perceived as love from what I had been taught love was so it had to be true. It might not be what someone else's definition of love is but its what I knew it to be. So if that was the case for me, it must have been the same for her so yes, there was definitely love from both sides but a very different feeling for both given what we both knew love to be.

Now if you remove the romanticised ideal of love, it is in fact a chemical reaction within our own brains so again, regardless of how quick it was professed, it had to have been there. I know when I said it, initially I had a moment of reservation but I think hearing those words from her and waiting my life for acceptance is what caused my chemical reaction.

Heh. My ex told me she adored me too on our first date. As we were walking back to my car, she held onto my arm and said, "I really like you." She also told me she loved me within the first two weeks as well. I clearly remember her saying it to me sometimes when we were in her bed together. I didn't know how to respond. I wasn't sure how I truly felt about her yet. I mean, I liked her. But loved? Looking back, the first time I said, "I love you too" wasn't real. I was just tired of going silent on her and being awkward about it. I fell in love with her over time, though. I don't know exactly when I did, but I did.

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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2015, 11:20:28 AM »

Oh... .I think yes ... .they most definitely loved us... .it was real for them.  ... BUT... .I have come to believe that was the mind of a very small child.  I think that a child's love (from a child) is one of the most beautiful things on the planet... .

When my not-so-healthy self gave my adult love to an adult with a child's mind ... .it was very gratifying for me to be her rescuer.  I never thought about the back end.  My child got angry at me (and hid her rage), and got even with me (by cheating on me while childishly playing victim to new supply) and then ran off and punished me by abandonment.  She still tries to punish me and triangulate me. I just don't play that game any longer. Nothing has changed for her... .and since she is very attractive, she can get away with it as long as she desires. Our society even backs up her behavior. Listen to a song or watch a movie... .all the reinforcement is there everywhere you look or hear.

So... .did she ever love me.  Yes.  The best that she could.  

Wow... .that completely summarizes my relationship.  Including my responsibility, which I'm working on right now.  Amazing how often our stories overlap on this discussion board... .
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« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2015, 11:51:24 AM »

Nope. I was a emotional tampon. Oh it seemed like love. It wasnt. I was useful while she rebuilt herself. When I couldnt handle the demands and neediness... .poof, Im gone, following week, another guy.
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« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2015, 12:03:38 PM »

Oh... .I think yes ... .they most definitely loved us... .it was real for them.  ... BUT... .I have come to believe that was the mind of a very small child.  I think that a child's love (from a child) is one of the most beautiful things on the planet... .

I have seen people use this reference, 'love like a small child'... .what does that mean?

when you are very young, toddler age, you don't 'love' your parents in the way you use the term now.

at age 4, you don't know your parents as people, and have no scope or understanding of their personality or character... .you can't, you've barely been on the planet for a few years, and you have no frame of reference for an idea like 'love'

'love' at that age is merely an acknowledgement of satisfaction b/c needs are being met:  mommy and daddy make me food when I'm hungry, take care of me when I'm sick, give me kiss before tucking me in at night, etc etc

couple this with the fact that mom and dad say they 'love' me, so you parrot it back to them as an acknowledgement... .it's almost like a fancy 'thank you' at that age

our exes understand love in the same way: needs are being met.

our needs and wants were discarded, our interests belittled, so there was really no way for our exes to be able to 'love' us for who we are (i.e. personality, character, etc)

we made them feel 'wanted' for a little while... .they built a façade to facilitate that, and once we wanted to peel back a layer and add some depth to the relationship, they begin to run away... .they don't have the capacity for reciprocity, and their 'needs' surge to the forefront, and we are let go for the next mommy and daddy to tell them they're ok... .

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« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2015, 01:14:40 PM »

Thank you for that explanation... .it SO saddens me... .what a morass of hopeless loneliness they live in... .it must be worse than the worst prison for them... .
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« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2015, 01:35:50 PM »

I remember about 6-8 months into the relationship, one time I was passing my ex in the bathroom and and I said, "I love you". She replied, "I love you too". In a joking tone I said, "are you sure?". She was real standoffish and I was having gut feelings about how she felt about me. Her reply was, "With my son's father we always told each other "I love you", but they were just words. They didn't mean anything. They mean something with you though, I do love you."

I guess that tells the story. She tells whoever she's with at the time, that she loves them. She told me she loved me, when she was in a decent mood she acted like she loved me. Now she doesn't acknowledge my existence as a living breathing human being. At one point in the past she may have thought that she loved me. She obviously doesn't love me as I type this reply. In my world, you either love someone or you don't. You don't just stop loving and caring about someone on a whim.

Do you think they ever loved you, or were just afraid of being alone? Words vs actions is the best answer that I can give. However, I have a question.

Does it even matter at this point?
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« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2015, 02:03:13 PM »

Mine used to ask me, how much I love her. And before I could even answer, she said "My love for you is bigger than the universe." No matter what I answered, her love was even bigger. I always thought it was childlike flirtation, but now I think, that was really her. She had a lot of childish manners.
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« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2015, 02:08:22 PM »

I remember about 6-8 months into the relationship, one time I was passing my ex in the bathroom and and I said, "I love you". She replied, "I love you too". In a joking tone I said, "are you sure?". She was real standoffish and I was having gut feelings about how she felt about me. Her reply was, "With my son's father we always told each other "I love you", but they were just words. They didn't mean anything. They mean something with you though, I do love you."

I guess that tells the story. She tells whoever she's with at the time, that she loves them. She told me she loved me, when she was in a decent mood she acted like she loved me. Now she doesn't acknowledge my existence as a living breathing human being. At one point in the past she may have thought that she loved me. She obviously doesn't love me as I type this reply. In my world, you either love someone or you don't. You don't just stop loving and caring about someone on a whim.

Do you think they ever loved you, or were just afraid of being alone? Words vs actions is the best answer that I can give. However, I have a question.

Does it even matter at this point?

I recall during my marriage: of course I loved her when we first married, but my feelings changed over time and we ultimately divorced. Interestingly, we both felt the same way but continued saying 'I love you' to one another. But it was nothing more than a force of habit, not unlike saying, 'Hi, how are you'?
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« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2015, 02:20:00 PM »

Even at the start of my relationship with my uBPDxw she would tell me she loved me but always with a slight open ended tone. "I love you"? Her I love you's were just her way of trying to elicit a response of "I love you" from me... .It would drive me nuts. I would finally call her on it by saying. Are you really expressing your love for me or are you just trying to force me to say it? I would ask her that wouldn't she appreciate a heartfelt "I love you" from me than one that was forced? God I hated that, it was so CHILDISH!

That being said I was very free with saying I love you as I'm not afraid to show my emotions. I guess she needed to hear it every 60 seconds for re-assurance... .Very Sad it must be to have their constant need for that re-assurance!

MWC... .Being cool (click to insert in post)
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The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. (Psalm 34:18, 19)
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« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2015, 02:32:36 PM »

Mine used to ask me, how much I love her. And before I could even answer, she said "My love for you is bigger than the universe." No matter what I answered, her love was even bigger. I always thought it was childlike flirtation, but now I think, that was really her. She had a lot of childish manners.

I was always suspicious of people that put a meter on how much you love someone. My ex used to tell me how much she loved her kids. I would say that I loved them too. She would then proceed to tell me how much more she loved them, like it was some sort of competition. I think that you either love someone or you don't.

On an off note, my ex's 17yo son moved out again and she's tagging him on FB memes everyday about how much she loves him. What is that all about? Is she doing to her son what some pwBPD do to their exSO. I noticed that she kind of lives vicariously through her kids(whatever that means). It's almost like her whole identity is her children. But it's fake. Almost like codependency, she does it to make herself feel better. Not actually for the kids sake. I have noticed plenty of females like this.
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« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2015, 02:37:29 PM »

Even at the start of my relationship with my uBPDxw she would tell me she loved me but always with a slight open ended tone. "I love you"? Her I love you's were just her way of trying to elicit a response of "I love you" from me... .It would drive me nuts. I would finally call her on it by saying. Are you really expressing your love for me or are you just trying to force me to say it? I would ask her that wouldn't she appreciate a heartfelt "I love you" from me than one that was forced? God I hated that, it was so CHILDISH!

That being said I was very free with saying I love you as I'm not afraid to show my emotions. I guess she needed to hear it every 60 seconds for re-assurance... .Very Sad it must be to have their constant need for that re-assurance!

MWC... .Being cool (click to insert in post)

my BPD ex used to actually have visible anxiety attacks when ending a phone call when the inevitable 'I love you' would need to be said. She would rush her words, often stammer and blurt it out almost as one word!
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« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2015, 02:39:23 PM »

uBPDexgf gave me a book of matches from someplace we had travelled 10 months after we had met and 4 months after we had gotten together that said "STILL love you." (caps my emphasis). But I do think over time she did love me and deeply. We were together 9.5 years so it wasn't smoke and mirrors all that time. But i do believe she had cycles where she herself questioned if she loved me. You'd think after that much time and shared experiences that were at least 75% good that she would want to continue instead of taking a chance on somebody new. I, however, am known to be wrong occasionally... .
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« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2015, 02:46:08 PM »

Ok, 7 weeks out of it, slowly seeing clearly again, I do think she loved me... .in her own way. Especially in the first years. She was almost obsessed by me, after that I became obsessed with her and I had to move mountains to keep her with me. But in those early days, she looked up to me, like a child looks up to an adult. Which makes sense, as she was 18 and I was 26 when we met (18 is a legal age here in the Netherlands, by the way).

She was still studying and living with her parents, I was working and had my own appartment. I was very social, everyone in town knew me and I was busy talking to everyone when going out. She was a bit quiet and shy. She must have looked up to all these things, and wanted to be the same, sort of.

In the end, she 'stole' all these things from me. Now she's the social one, making friends everywhere, while I've lost my identity in the process of pleasing her for 4,5 years. I'm slowly building myself up again, but it is what it is.

I guess she was in love with the idea of me, the things I could offer, the personality she could steal. She broke me down and got rid of all traits that I saw as positive, and when there was nothing left of me, she started moving on right under my nose, but I was too blind to see.

So yeah, that isn't love. But it's the way they love, I guess.

Oh, and yes, there's def. something about the fear of being alone in there. She dumped her previous boyfriend for me, before that she had another boyfriend. Right now, she has a boyfriend again. Since I've known her I haven't seen her single for more than 6 weeks (the time between our break up and last week). Even during the times when we would split previously she had another guy lined up, which she soon dumped to get back to me. Man, the joke's on me. The world must've thought I was stupid to take her back again and again.
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« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2015, 02:51:42 PM »

I Believed that love existed between my ex and I . I still don't get the need part. It's going on a month since her grand finale exit. The reason I don't get it maybe because I was not going along with her crazy about a year before this ending. I would try to just keep us status quo and tell her to be nice. Of course it wouldn't work and I see my own denial .

Did she want to love I'm sure she did? She also wanted me to not be strong because she was always trying to break my spirit. Verbal and emotional abuse. I thought it was rejection and I suffered more.

Is this love? I don't know I believe she tried but the fact is I'm in the fog of trying to figure all this out? I believe I was a good partner, friend , and parent. I never understood her constant conflict . She'd tell me things like I was controlling , I was smothering , and I was manipulative I wasn't it was so confusing ? I have been told this is projection and gas lighting ? It's all a insane life w a BPD. In a way it was ok I dealt w it cause she played normal good too
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« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2015, 03:06:41 PM »

I don't think E ever loved me. I think I was a person to keep her busy from being by herself and lonely. I met her right before the summer. I remember during her first conversations saying that she needed to keep herself busy from being alone.

Someone even went out of their way to get her a summer job doing some work with kids. It's funny now when I look back and reflect that as soon as she started to become attached to me that she dropped that job without any hesitation. Not really caring that the person went out of the way to get it for her.

It really is always about the BPDs need to feel good and not to be alone.

New relationships are so exciting for BPDs because the new person is a clean host who can be there and listen to all of their issues. I remember driving out to Colorado and her telling me about all the issues in her life and her past.

I think I filled a role for her. I don't think she ever loved me or wanted to be with me long term. She never committed to me. She fed me lines and kept me optimistic that she would open up, become intimate, and things would be the way I imagined them.

That's the hook. In the beginning, E was what I wanted. I remember skyping with her and how free and sexual she was. She'd talk about all the things we would do and places we'd go. It was like a drug.

But I played a role. She didn't want to be alone for the summer. She wanted someone to keep her company. I practically lived with her. She encouraged me to look for jobs in Colorado but she didnt want me to live with her. It's funny because once school started she started to change. She would start the yo-yoing and I would play the dutiful councilor.

It was also funny now to think about it about the sexual aspect. We had sex "THREE" times and the only times we did it was because she was afraid that I was going to leave her. It's funny, once school started up nothing ever happened again. Not even on her birthday.

She also never was alone. She would always go to her mothers, fathers, aunts, when I was not there. She could not be alone. Even during our last conversation she mentioned that. That is why I suspect she is with someone already or back online looking for a new guy.

Did E ever love me? No. I don't believe she did. She said to me on occasions but to love someone you need to be willing to put your needs to the side for that person's hapiness. Did I love E? Yes! I truly did. That is what is so damaging about these relationships.

I fell in lust with an image of a beautiful woman. I filled in the blanks, and ultimately fell in love with her after I gave her so much.

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D Sheriff 17
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« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2015, 11:08:27 AM »

This is a question that I find myself asking myself often. Throughout our three-year relationship I was constantly accused of not been able to share enough intimacy and empathy towards her in our relationship. I was painted black for about a year and then she finally terminated the relationship abruptly. Within a week she had one short-term rebound and now she's been dating another guy for a couple months where she had emailed me recently and let me know how she found peace and is really happy now with her new love.  Also in that email she wrote " there's something I need to tell you that will probably hurt you but I need to tell you so you know I'm to blame too. I truely never loved my ex- husband (of 8 years) and I never loved you.  I needed love, I let you"love" me, but I never loved you. I'm sorry but you need to know that." 

       I finally thought, well least i got somewhat of closer and honestly as ruthless as it sounded.  But then she called me the next day to say she re-read the email, and thst wasn't exactly what she meant. She then explained she just didn't love me the way she should have.  Which was followed up with she was so happy now and hopes i am too. To be honest, I couldn't wait to get off the phone. Part of me was afraid to say something that would set her off and the other part of me just didn't want to hear her voice anymore.   

      To sum it up, I think they want love, need love, they just don't know how to accept love
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« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2015, 12:21:41 PM »

This is a question that I find myself asking myself often. Throughout our three-year relationship I was constantly accused of not been able to share enough intimacy and empathy towards her in our relationship. I was painted black for about a year and then she finally terminated the relationship abruptly. Within a week she had one short-term rebound and now she's been dating another guy for a couple months where she had emailed me recently and let me know how she found peace and is really happy now with her new love.  Also in that email she wrote " there's something I need to tell you that will probably hurt you but I need to tell you so you know I'm to blame too. I truely never loved my ex- husband (of 8 years) and I never loved you.  I needed love, I let you"love" me, but I never loved you. I'm sorry but you need to know that."  

      I finally thought, well least i got somewhat of closer and honestly as ruthless as it sounded.  But then she called me the next day to say she re-read the email, and thst wasn't exactly what she meant. She then explained she just didn't love me the way she should have.  Which was followed up with she was so happy now and hopes i am too. To be honest, I couldn't wait to get off the phone. Part of me was afraid to say something that would set her off and the other part of me just didn't want to hear her voice anymore.  

     To sum it up, I think they want love, need love, they just don't know how to accept love

They are just extremely self-centered, really, really sick people.   
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« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2015, 12:49:44 PM »

They feel love but for a short period of time. They can't sustain it. That is because their brain is damaged. One day they can wake up and say- "hey I just don't love you anymore. I do not know why, but that is how I feel it" And they will not be lying. Here is a quote from a real Borderline.

Then one day, I won't love them anymore. It probably doesn't actually happen overnight, but it feels like it. I'll wake up and I just… don't want them in my life. And the fact they still love me will actually disgust me. I will be repulsed by the fact that they can't just “get over” me the way I'm already over them. And I'll hurt and I'll feel bad because I hurt them and I'll cry because I feel bad. But I won't really care, I'll walk away and it will be as though I never truly loved them and I won't know why. I'll say “he just wasn't right for me”? and I'll feel bad because I don't believe there's anyone out there who IS right for me and maybe that last one was the only chance I'll ever get to not die alone. And I'll tell myself I'm OK with dying alone because at least that way I can't hurt anyone else- including myself. But then I always crave love again…

They can't sustain it... .I witnessed that on a couple of occasions early on (after the honeymoon had passed). She texted or called me (I can't remember) and told me she didn't love me anymore and that the spark was gone. This came pretty much out of left filed because I thought things between us were fine; there was no turmoil whatsoever, we got along great and never argued. I was totally flabbergasted with her decision and very upset. I remember calling her up, asking why; she seemed so cold and detached from me.

The next day she apologized to me and said she made a mistake, "You know what I get like when I'm feeling depressed." We were back together again in less than 24 hours.

Something very similar happened again a couple of months later and the end result was the same. Randomly decides to end the relationship, says she doesn't love me/no spark anymore, but the next day she apologizes using pretty much the same excuses.

I was a very good boyfriend to her. Almost certain the best she's ever had. Those mini-breakups never made sense to me. She always felt she could not relate to me because my life was much different than her's (I had a job, I went to school, I had friends, and a very loving family to go home to). She had none of that.

This was the exact way we started to unravel as well.  He just stated BY TEXT MIND YOU, out of the blue that he didn't love me anymore.  That he was sorry, that it just "hit him".  Then two weeks later, he had made a mistake... I DO love you, I realize it clearly now.  Followed one month later with horrible treatment, fights started for no reason other than to destroy any chance of weekend plans.  Spending less time with me, lovemaking like a robot.  All loving treatment was gone.  It was the most traumatic experience I have been through.
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« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2015, 01:23:42 PM »

I believe my uBPD/NPD ex gf loved me in the way that she was capable of doing.  I also believe it was need and control based, and that she wasn't (or isn't) able to share in a reciprocating love relationship.  I don't blame her for this - it is what it is and it didn't work for me.  I remember her saying to me on more than one occasion that the only unconditional love is between parent and kids.  You can't have this love between two adults.  And, not coincidentally she couldn't express her commitment to me or the relationship until over 2 years in even though we had been acting like a couple the whole time.  The expression of commitment only came after I was attempting to flee the chaos and abuse.  Again, love with underlying control and need at the center.  As that control and need ramped up, so did the emotional disregulation and rage. 

I believe fear of being alone also played into it, probably on both sides but more so on hers.  I say that because she would call me early on late at night telling me I needed to stay on the phone with her because she couldn't handle being alone at night.  Some of her worst rage episodes were at times where I needed some space or sleep or whatever and she couldn't handle being alone.  So, I suppose that's need based too.

Through all of this, I stayed for 3+ years.  My love was real, but I had an internal head vs heart vs gut battle going on because what I was experiencing didn't match my values and my needs.  In other words, I wasn't loving and taking care of myself first.  Being over a year out of the r/s and now starting down the path of a healthy, reciprocating, adult relationship I can easily own my part in the past r/s and hold so strong to self love and acceptance.  I'll never completely figure everything out that happened in the r/s and I don't need to.  It just wasn't healthy for me to continue to participate in any form. 
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« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2015, 01:40:05 PM »

Looking back a bit on my relationship... .it was somewhat odd... .I think that mine observed from other couples from TV, movies, etc. the things that couples that are truly in love do and say to one another - the little things... .I can think of instances where she imitated those things similar to the awkwardness of someone who is trying their first beer in the company of her peers where she doesn't want to let on that she never tired beer before (and it really doesn't taste that good) but wants to give the impression that she is a beer connoisseur. A good example was gift giving at holidays and birthdays where during those occasions the gift giver is more excited/anxious about the gift than the recipient, hoping it pleases them and is an accurate representation of their affection. Her demeanor was almost as if it was just a requirement, something that you couldn't get out of but HAD to do. So, chop -chop, lets get it over with, I have stuff to do, kind of body language. Of course, getting gifts was something entirely different.

I think that she REALLY wanted to give love and be loved but that she was so fearful of SOMETHING, the appearance was that she didn't want to cave in to that something. Almost like at one time, she made a promise to herself that she never would... .Sad.
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« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2015, 06:29:36 PM »

Oh... .I think yes ... .they most definitely loved us... .it was real for them.  ... BUT... .I have come to believe that was the mind of a very small child.  I think that a child's love (from a child) is one of the most beautiful things on the planet... .

I have seen people use this reference, 'love like a small child'... .what does that mean?

I agree with paperlung's reference up above on the page... . 

I believe in my ex's damage occurred when her father ran off when she was 5 years old.  He was such an ass... he even took the family dog.  Anyone can say what they will (I had no knowledge of BPD until well after the relationship), but I believe that my ex was soo emotionally damaged by the abandonment from her father... plus... .her Mom is a REALLY great lady... .but the abandonment damaged her incredibly as well.   Imagine being a sensitive five year old (only child)... .Dad and the dog are gone and Mom is completely devastated and in deep deep grief and mourning.  I get it now... .my ex was destroyed as a child.  In many ways I think that her development was arrested emotionally.  She is very childlike, and self-centered.  Think of the damage and the unprocessed anger and resentment toward men about that abandonment.

Funny... .she could love pets like no one I ever saw... .like a child.  When it came to loving adult men ... .initially that is exciting... but it eventually falls short for both people. It cannot be sustained... .and if there is not mature, deep love and nurturing after the glow period on both people's part... .there just isn't much there... .

"you didn't hold my hand the right way!" ... .is kind of hard to field with an adult child... .and they think that that is a reason to go shopping for another man.  Childish.

How strange, Infared, that so much of your ex's story is the same as mine.  My ex, like yours, was a waif and highly sensitive. Her father abandoned the family when she was 5, mother became extremely depressed and was suicidal at times. My ex could also love pets - and babies, ohmigod if there was a baby within a 20 mile radius she picked up on it - like no one else I've ever seen.  Perhaps the pets/babies has nothing to do with BPD but still... .the similarities are kind of amazing.
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« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2015, 06:36:11 PM »

He just stated BY TEXT MIND YOU, out of the blue that he didn't love me anymore.  That he was sorry, that it just "hit him".  Then two weeks later, he had made a mistake... I DO love you, I realize it clearly now.  Followed one month later with horrible treatment, fights started for no reason other than to destroy any chance of weekend plans.  Spending less time with me, lovemaking like a robot.  All loving treatment was gone.  It was the most traumatic experience I have been through.

Push-pull-push-pull-push-pull-push-pull-push-pull-push-pull-push-pull-push-pull-push.

To infinity and beyond.
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