I watch them - do they watch us?

[enlighten me]

One thing that those boards have done is give me more compassion to my exs. Understanding the constant stress and fear they suffer saddens me. You could hate them if they did what they do for sport but realising it is fear that drives them makes me pity them.

[Circle]

Can you imagine if they organised as a group? Maybe they are picking on tips on how to keep us more fogged up?

That's funny!

[Circle]

This wouldnt be a problem if what they wanted was set in stone but it changes from one moment to the next so no one can be everything they want so everyone eventually gets devalued.

Totally.

[Circle]

Apparently, they do watch this site. Just found these quotes:

"When looking for a" safe" place on here, I find places for family of BPD ppl. I feel very wary of them. Does anyone else feel" attacked" by them? So I chose this forum because it seems more welcoming to us mental folk. Lol."

"I just wanted to say be careful about looking on sites aimed at those who know someone who suffers with BPD.

A lot of posters seem very angry and they're venting at "people with BPD" in general, tarring everybody with the same brush. It's depressing to read."

These two, above, were from one post.

I agree with what others have written, on this thread. Namely, that it's important to respect people who are making an effort to heal. After all, they didn't ask to get hurt to the point where they developed a serious mental illness. I also agree that it's important for people who were with BPD's and suffered their ways, to have a good laugh and not be too serious when we can manage.

[once removed]

btw, skim this thread if you wish. it contains two posters with BPD. one was active between 2007-2014. there are others.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70626.msg690322#msg690322

[Madison66]

I tried to read as many posts on this thread as I could before sharing my thoughts.  I came to the forum initially for support in my recovery and detachment from a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  I also was looking for information to help me understand what happened and my role in the r/s.  I've never personally gone to a BPD support forum for those with BPD.  I do simply share my experiences here and try not to project as a broad cover on all others, although I see many similar experiences being posted by other nons.  Compassion for my ex gf and others who suffer from PDs begins and ends with wishing them well and hoping they can all get the help they need.  After enduring and allowing 3+ years of the emotional and eventual physical abuse from my ex along with a long road of recovery and detachment, while I wish her well and others well with this and other PDs I know that I choose to never have a romantic r/s with a person w PD again.  Again, after experiencing what I did with my ex gf I have little to no hope that she will ever change.  The most important thing here is that I fully accept that I am a recovering co-dependent and will use my best judgment and discernment to choose r/s in the future that match my values and needs.  PD or no PD... .

[Achaya]

I still love my ex and have a lot of compassion for her. She has taken responsibility for the abusive things she did to me and she does not mince words when she talks about her behavior. I am sure that she would not expect me to do so, in fact when I have tried to put a more neutral spin on her behavior, e.g., "You felt you needed to do this to survive," she counters with something like, "No I did not, it was cruel!" It bothers her that I am not more angry.

Obviously there is hope for some pwBPDs. On the other hand, partners have to decide for themselves whether there is hope for the pwBPD they are involved with. When partners are struggling to protect themselves by exiting a relationship, they may need to decide that there is no hope at all before they can do that. Otherwise, the shred of false hope holds them captive. Some of the most helpful posts for me soon after the BU were the ones that stated that pwBPDs "always" end up ditching their partners, and the most self-protective strategy is to give up on any hope that this particular one will be different.

Perhaps if pwBPD read our posts and "feel attacked," they could come up with some better ways that we can handle our grief and anger about their abuse and rejections. Why don't they have sites where the emphasis is on how to validate, empathize with and support their injured partners? Does anyone ever expect them to do that? All the emphasis seems to be on how we should scrutinize and carefully craft our responses to them, keeping all of their sensitivities in mind.

When I was first coming to terms with my codependency I exposed myself to literature that was written by recovering substance abusers. These people were highly critical of codependent behavior, and highly angry at codependent partners. I considered how some of these criticisms could be true of me and worked on changing those behaviors. People with BPD can do likewise.

[FannyB]

Achaya

You make some very valid points. As the 'non-disordered' party it is inevitable that a disproportionate burden would have to fall on the non's shoulders if the relationship is to work.  Also, whilst the facts state that they can indeed recover - what does 'recover' mean in this instance? If it's that they no longer meet 5 of the 9 diagnostic criteria for BPD that in itself does not necessarily mean that they are no longer hell to live with!   I think a person has to be either exceptionally strong or exceptionally masochistic to plough on with a BPD relationship after considering the evidence on these boards.  On the flip side, if you are not necessarily looking for a LTR, then a BPD relationship might just be the thing for you if you want a fun-fuelled chaotic few months and you already have 'one foot out the door' so to speak. We are all different - and one size most definitely does not fit all.   

[Circle]

On the flip side, if you are not necessarily looking for a LTR, then a BPD relationship might just be the thing for you if you want a fun-fuelled chaotic few months and you already have 'one foot out the door' so to speak.

For some reason, I'm guessing that a person who thinks they can just go into, and out of, a relationship with a BPD-person, has a surprise in store for them. Maybe a sociopath could pull it off. How could the average person not be taken bait, line & sinker? It's everything our culture tells us that romantic love is (in the beginning); love at first sight, passion, mutual obsession. I'd bet that many a player has been out-played and heart-snagged by pwBPD.

[FannyB]

On the flip side, if you are not necessarily looking for a LTR, then a BPD relationship might just be the thing for you if you want a fun-fuelled chaotic few months and you already have 'one foot out the door' so to speak.

For some reason, I'm guessing that a person who thinks they can just go into, and out of, a relationship with a BPD-person, has a surprise in store for them. Maybe a sociopath could pull it off. How could the average person not be taken bait, line & sinker? It's everything our culture tells us that romantic love is (in the beginning); love at first sight, passion, mutual obsession. I'd bet that many a player has been out-played and heart-snagged by pwBPD.

Hi Circle. Not saying it would be easy, but there's got to be examples of people safely negotiating shark infested waters armed with prior knowledge of BPD. Every one of us here who has been damaged by these encounters would be different next time. Probably 90% would run at the sign of the first red flag - but I'm sure some would be brave enough to give it a go. Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

[Achaya]

Hi Circle. Not saying it would be easy, but there's got to be examples of people safely negotiating shark infested waters armed with prior knowledge of BPD. Every one of us here who has been damaged by these encounters would be different next time. Probably 90% would run at the sign of the first red flag - but I'm sure some would be brave enough to give it a go. Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I actually did not enjoy being idealized. I just wanted to be accepted for who I am rather than just for what I offer to others. My ex actually did seem to accept me through most of the relationship. I felt very comfortable with her in our day to day life. However, she was so unable to tolerate intimacy that she never really got to know me on a deeper level. She wasn't openly devaluing. She is a Waif type and avoids conflict with everyone.

I used to wonder why she gets involved with women like me, who place so much importance on the depth, consistency and quality of the relational connection. I wondered if a person with a more distant attachment style would work better for her. The problem with that is that my ex starts out wanting a lot of closeness and would react very negatively in the beginning of the relationship if our connection was off. It was like she had to know she was firmly docked at a port, then as soon as she knew that, she freaked out and ran away.

She realizes now that she has destroyed every relationship she ever had and will continue to do so unless she can overcome her BPD-based fears. This is devastating for her to see. I love her and feel very sorry for her. I am so glad she didn't want to recycle with me because I probably would have tried it again. If she works very hard on her fears of intimacy I do believe that she has a good chance of establishing a relationship again, but I think it would have to be with a person who understands her issues and isn't as hurt by her behavior as I was.

[Circle]

Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I don't know either?

[FannyB]

Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I don't know either?

Circle

If you check out my 'Hair of the dog' thread you will see that Zeus clearly thinks so! 

Fanny

[2014]

Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I don't know either?

I have the answer to that! If you are not a sociopath, NO ITS NOT! Even though i wasn't buying the idealization, i most def knew i did not and this rs would not something long therm. I most def had one foot out sort of speak. But did I get burned, MY GOD. The discard came out of nowhere, like a nuclear bomb, he replaced me before breaking up with (which he did in a two line text). I was so badly hurt that i realized i had overestimated my abilities to stay somewhat emotionally uninvested. It took me ONE FULL year to recover from that 5 month not-so-invested relationship i had with him.

Let me repeat that, it took me ONE FULL YEAR to recover from a 5 month 'relationship' that i didn't even want. So, yeah... .

[ZeusRLX]

Circle

If you check out my 'Hair of the dog' thread you will see that Zeus clearly thinks so!  

Fanny

I think so. I think it highly depends on the person though.

I think IF (and that's a big if) someone is experienced with BPD and emotionally resilient in face of BU, then yes, it's possible.

In most of my past experiences (short term and long term), I was the one who left because I knew without a doubt it was BPD. But we had a great time before then so it was worth it.

A couple of times I was devalued. One time things were good and we were planning this amazing trip and talking about marriage (as usual) and kids (of course) and then she did something that annoyed me and I went off at her.

Just told her in no uncertain terms not to do that anymore. No screaming or name calling, of course, but if I don't like you doing something, I will let you know.

So, anyway, she freaked out, didn't talk to me for like 4 days.

I apologized that I hurt her feelings, told her I will make it right. Even though the whole thing wasn't such a bad deal objectively.

Once she had been out of touch for a week I knew something was off.

By that time I myself wanted it to be done because to me that was a completely unreasonable reaction over something so silly.

Anyway, she wrote to me and said she couldn't see me the way she did before and thought it would be better if we end it. I agreed and wished her all the best. I still think fondly of her sometimes even though the whole thing was so short.

I was sort of frustrated for maybe 2-3 days after that (but at least I didn't book the trip so no money wasted!). The next week I met another one, switched my attention, things escalated and things got much more long term with the next one (also BPD, of course).

I wouldn't recommend this to anyone though if you can find someone you have chemistry with that does NOT have a personality disorder.

My chemistry seems to be best with BPD women so that's what I do. It is what it is.

It's still risky though. She could get pregnant or I could actually get married to her. That would really suck!

Those things I personally am afraid of, kids and financial ties... .Devaluation, not so much.

[Mutt]

In most of my past experiences (short term and long term), I was the one who left because I knew without a doubt it was BPD. But we had a great time before then so it was worth it.

My chemistry seems to be best with BPD women so that's what I do. It is what it is.

Those things I personally am afraid of, kids and financial ties... .Devaluation, not so much.

Hi ZeusRLX,

Members are trying to detach from painful r/s break-ups with a pwBPD on the Leaving board and I sense that a r/s with a pwBPD is something that may not phase you and you may radically accept.

We have multiple boards on the forum and we have one for staying in a r/s with a pwBPD and you are welcome to share on the Staying or Undecided board and share your experiences and learn the tools.

Is Leaving the best place for you?

[ZeusRLX]

Hi ZeusRLX,

Members are trying to detach from painful r/s break-ups with a pwBPD on the Leaving board and I sense that a r/s with a pwBPD is something that may not phase you and you may radically accept.

We have multiple boards on the forum and we have one for staying in a r/s with a pwBPD and you are welcome to share on the Staying or Undecided board and share your experiences and learn the tools.

Is Leaving the best place for you?

I will check those out, thanks.

I guess the challenge is, I'm not really staying either, just broke up with one... .but I am staying in a sense that I'm open to the possibility of it I guess? But also leaving at the right time? It gets more and more complicated.

Anyway, I will look at the other boards to see if they are a better match for some of my stuff, thanks.

[Mutt]

Hi ZeusRLX,

Members are trying to detach from painful r/s break-ups with a pwBPD on the Leaving board and I sense that a r/s with a pwBPD is something that may not phase you and you may radically accept.

We have multiple boards on the forum and we have one for staying in a r/s with a pwBPD and you are welcome to share on the Staying or Undecided board and share your experiences and learn the tools.

Is Leaving the best place for you?

I will check those out, thanks.

I guess the challenge is, I'm not really staying either, just broke up with one... .but I am staying in a sense that I'm open to the possibility of it I guess? But also leaving at the right time? It gets more and more complicated.

Anyway, I will look at the other boards to see if they are a better match for some of my stuff, thanks.

You say you had trauma from it years ago and want to help others.

Do you see how your current statements can be triggering to members when they are knee deep in pain?

You sound like you may be Undecided and there are lessons on that board that will help you navigate the complexities of the choices and decisions for you. A r/s break-up is not always something that is linear and clear and it can take time to decide which path to take.

[TwilightVelvet]

you raise an interesting question fanny b. i know that pwBPD have posted on these boards. some of their words are even in bpdfamily articles. i took a look at some BPD forums once recently. ive seen the movie back from the edge that features three sufferers.

what troubles me is that i read them say how truly they felt their feelings and how desperately they wanted it to work. you never see "nons are evil" or even "nons just dont get it" or "nons are better off alone" or "the only way to heal is to cut them off and never look back". you see people who are suffering, suffering over the suffering they may have caused others, people who never asked for their disorder, and just want to be happy.

i think we have a moral duty not to stigmatize BPD, but we do it frequently. we are understanding and forgiving of our own suffering, and how our own suffering may have led us to treat them, but we either mock their suffering, write it off as somehow trying to mess with our heads, or suggest they dont really suffer at all.

i imagine if i had BPD, it would give me great insight to read some things here, about how the "non" feels toward and about their ex. but the stuff we say about BPD in general, yeah, i think that would be hugely triggering. id have no hope, and it would confirm my worst fears about myself and how society sees me. id be reading about how i cant and will never get better. so why would i try? perhaps the saddest and most dangerous part is that those are not facts. this website is called facing the facts. educating ourselves on the disorder is always encouraged, but with it should come a responsibility to face and speak the facts.

i know so many here are hurting profoundly. this is a great place to express, share, and deal with that hurt. none of that has to include stigmatizing mental illness, painting our exes black, or abandoning empathy.

They're suffering a lot of the same things everyone does like bad choices and mistakes and regrets and things we do that are self destructive. I think we all do stupid things sometimes or selfish and destructive things, but there seems to be a difference with "nons". Maybe it is more awareness? Trying to NOT hurt people? Or maybe BPD's in the midst of their rage can't stop themselves from lashing out even at people trying to help them.

I mean I sometimes wonder if I have some BPD myself though my stuff is usually depression/anxiety. But I never want to hurt people, even after they hurt me. I don't go out of my way to lie or cheat or cause pain. I feel tremendous guilt that prevents me from doing anything like that and even in self preservation I can't remove toxic people because of my guilt and wanting to HELP them. But I feel like I still have a thin skin and stuff can trigger me easily.


My sister is BPD hardcore. She HURTS people. She seems to want to hurt us. It's just a pain circus with her and the sense of entitlement is crazy. She goes to trouble to HURT others. She finds the weakness and strikes over and over, year after year.

Then she might say sorry or she seems so small and weak and pathetic and I feel sorry for her. She has nothing in life. But I get angry because I should not be bearing the guilt for HER mistakes along with my own.

[ZeusRLX]

You say you had trauma from it years ago and want to help others.

Do you see how your current statements can be triggering to members when they are knee deep in pain?

You sound like you may be Undecided and there are lessons on that board that will help you navigate the complexities of the choices and decisions for you. A r/s break-up is not always something that is linear and clear and it can take time to decide which path to take.

Oh, absolutely (now that you've mentioned it). If I read some of the stuff I've written today back in the day, it would not be very helpful to me at all. So, yes, I can definitely see how it can trigger some people.

My primary motivation is getting better insight into it so that when I encounter it in the future I am better equipped to handle it. So, yes, in that sense I'm definitely not leaving (or so it seems) overall.

I am sorry if I triggered or upset anyone, that was not my intention. I will be more careful with these things in the future when posting here.

Thanks for alerting me about this, like I said, completely unintentional.

[Mutt]

 

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .