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Author Topic: Does the NC help to accept the break up?  (Read 4038 times)
Isa_lala
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« on: February 28, 2016, 05:19:35 PM »

It's been a week since I left the house and broke up with my BPD BF and he doesn't stop begging me to give him, to give us another chance, that he will see a T (yeah... .) and so on.

I received something like 20 emails today.

I am torn between the will of telling him that I even lost interest in the rs, that it is not anymore only the matter of consulting but I am bored in the rs. Of course, the feeling of abandonment + the feeling of being rejected will be explosive. Or, I just repeat in one sentence that I am not coming back and I am going for NC for a little while, accepting to speak with him only to discuss when he moves out... .

Would NC help him to accept the break up?
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2016, 06:03:40 PM »

Each pwBPD is different and I don't know your story.  But, NC is used to give yourself time/distance to detach and heal from the failure of the r/s.  Of course, it isn't used as punishment. I don't think this is your case, I'm just restating.

I think sending him a response saying you aren't interested in working out the r/s and you understand what he's saying.  You can either choose at that point to go NC for X length of time (or forever, if that's what you wish) or you can tell him you will discuss it with him on a certain day/time for closure.  When I decided to officially end my r/s with J, I told her that we had to end and I would be speaking with her until the end of the month (this was the last week of December). After that, I planned to go NC for a couple of months and told her we could speak on whatever level was comfortable to us after that.  

Of course, I waffled because she was so lucid, but I held firm that I wasn't going to get back into a r/s with her.  There was intermittent discussion between us for the month of Jan and early Feb.  I finally went full NC after I found out she had replaced me (started up in early December from what I've been told... .so we were in 'limbo' and she went on a couple of dates with another guy, not my replacement, that prompted our official end... .it's a long twisted story by itself) even though she was tiptoeing around wanting another chance with me (the entire time).  So, don't think he's experiencing it the way he says he is as a word of caution.

Keep us posted.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2016, 06:31:47 PM »

I received something like 20 emails today.

That's called an extinction burst Isa.  He's feeling abandoned, the worst thing that can happen to a borderline, he's freaking out, and he's using everything he can think of to pull you back.

Excerpt
Would NC help him to accept the break up?

Nothing will help soothe his feelings of abandonment except you going back to him, which you're not going to do, or him finding another attachment.  So best to focus on what's best for you.

The best thing to tell him is very little, something like: "I need to live my own life right now and I'd appreciate it if you don't contact me", and then remove all of the ways he could contact you, so you can detach and heal.  I know you have some logistics to figure out, and those should be strictly business.

For reference, when I left my ex I was done, done, done, and she continued to try and contact me for 9 months after I left her, I never responded, and she eventually stopped.  Sad, but we are dealing with mental illness here.  Take care of you!
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2016, 06:40:37 PM »

Thank you

I know that he is freaking out with me leaving him. Fear of abandonment

The thing is that I don't "blossom" in this rs, I feel bored more and more.

I think I will briefly say that I understand his pain but I am not coming back and that we need to take a few days without contact to be able to heal.

The positive thing here is that I feel strong and I have no doubt that I made the right choice.
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GreenEyedMonster
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2016, 07:28:15 PM »

NC is a way to unequivocally show the other person that the relationship is OVER.  If the attachment to you works like an addiction, that person will encounter your NC repeatedly and eventually internalize that what they need can no longer be obtained from you.  So in that sense, yes, it does.  That's why it's so important to hold firm.  Intermittent reinforcement -- where you give in occasionally -- actually makes behaviors worse than almost any other kind of reinforcement.

Eventually, either the other person's brain chemistry will level out, or they will find another source.
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SuperJew82
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2016, 08:53:12 PM »

I've received about 60 text messages/gmails from my ex over the past weekend after I told her NC ( with no replies of any kind from me ).

Handful of examples.

" I can't wait to stop loving you "

" Look, I don't want you back "

" Please Don't Contact me "

" Don't spy on me"

" Can we talk?"

" I want my underwear back"
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 06:57:56 AM »

It reminds me the technic some parents apply with their baby when they cry during the night only to get attention : you don't go in the room, you let the baby cry and go back to sleep by himself

Ok, I didn't do that with my child by choice, but I understand that it  could work with my BPD bf

I receive more than 30 emails in 24 hours, all the same such as

Come back, give us another chance

I know that I did wrong but I can change

It will make me die to lose you

Etc, etc.

I said, and I promise it is the last time, that I will not go back and that he has to accept my decision even if it is very difficult

I told him to stop writing me and to take the time to heal. And I said I am going away for a few days so I will not answer his emails.

I am so anxious with all of that. I guess I have to talk to me, calm me down and focus on other things. It is difficult, but I have to give it a try if not it will drive me crazy
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 07:19:31 AM »

I am so anxious with all of that. I guess I have to talk to me, calm me down and focus on other things. It is difficult, but I have to give it a try if not it will drive me crazy

It's helpful right now to remember why you left.  We can have mixed feelings once these relationships end, and like you said he's not a monster, and the feelings can change when we're away from the ongoing dysfunction and the fog clears.  One thing that can help keep your focus where you want it is to make a lost of all the unacceptable behaviors you tolerated in the relationship, I think you said it seemed like he might hit you the night before you left?  If you focus on those things, along with focusing on your bright future with your son, anything to do with him will be less and less attractive and crazy-making.  What's another thing on that list?
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2016, 10:24:38 AM »

For the moment, I don't miss a thing from the rs. Except that I am not used anymore to be alone (without an adult to talk to)

What makes me anxious is my BF reactions. He spent the 1st week trying to make me go back home, then complaining and whining about how suffering it is to lose me, then going back to trying to convince me to give him another chance.

That is exhausting for me. My wish is that he tells me soon he found a place and that I can go back to my place

For the moment, I fell like surviving and not healing. That s normal I guess.

I will try to take advantage of my 3 days away from town to relax. I hear my son laughing in the other room right now and that's make me feel a little bit better.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2016, 11:03:31 AM »

That is exhausting for me. My wish is that he tells me soon he found a place and that I can go back to my place

Yes, it's difficult and when the communication continues you are still emotionally involved to an extent.  It may make sense to get a deadline from him when he will be out, and keep the communications brief and pure business until then.  And he doesn't know where you are now, but he will when you move back to your place; have you considered how to deal with that?

Excerpt
For the moment, I fell like surviving and not healing. That s normal I guess.

Yes, the first step is removing yourself from the situation, and congratulations that you did that, and then it's a matter of letting the fog clear and getting your feet back on the ground, and then you can start the process of emotional healing.  It does feel like surviving at first, but it is a normal part of the process.  And the less you communicate with him the faster it will happen.

Excerpt
I will try to take advantage of my 3 days away from town to relax. I hear my son laughing in the other room right now and that's make me feel a little bit better.

Nice!  Kids are resilient and we can learn a lot from them; hope you're laughing with him!
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2016, 03:58:35 PM »

I will give a deadline to my BF later this week. I think that the shock was too huge for him to be able to be efficient in the research of a place. However, I know that he already started

For the next 3 days, I will try to empty my head from all of this. We just come out from the inside pool of the hotel where we stay, we will have a nice supper and a relax evening. And tomorrow we play tourists:-)

And while I was enjoying the spa, I promised myself that, when I will be back to my place and that I will really feel single, I will do it again, take a little vacation with my son.

About your question about my BF knowing where I kive when I will go back home, 1st, I probably will change the door lock and 2nd, I will erase his code for the alarm system. Of course, he could drop by but it is my choice to not open.

And should he try to harass me, I would go to the police for sure.
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 07:06:16 AM »

I maintained the NC for the last 48 hours and I felt better

I finally read his dozen of emails sent since then and it is difficult to resist to siren calls... .

He regrets to not have done anything before, but of course he now will seek for help because he loves me and doesn't want to lose what is the most precious in his life, he says that we could have done more activities together as a couple, that we should have put more attention to our couple etc.

It would be so tempting to believe that ... .I already have in the past and nothing of what he promised happened.

But when he is losing me, he becomes the man I love and the man I would have liked to be with full time. Siren calls... .

And I feel depressed because these 4 last years were such a waste... .I regret to have been caught in this rs. I am bitter a little bit and my future life doesn't seem so pink for the moment.

I know that when I will be back at my place, in my environment,  with my things, it will be easier. Until then I am in a no mans land of depression
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2016, 07:39:36 AM »

He regrets to not have done anything before, but of course he now will seek for help because he loves me and doesn't want to lose what is the most precious in his life, he says that we could have done more activities together as a couple, that we should have put more attention to our couple etc.

It would be so tempting to believe that ... .I already have in the past and nothing of what he promised happened.

But when he is losing me, he becomes the man I love and the man I would have liked to be with full time. Siren calls... .

Yes, the push/pull nature of a relationship with a borderline; when he's feeling abandoned he will be whomever he needs to be to reestablish the attachment, and when that feeling is soothed, he will be someone else.  It would be great if these relationships were stable, but they are inherently unstable.

Excerpt
And I feel depressed because these 4 last years were such a waste... .I regret to have been caught in this rs. I am bitter a little bit and my future life doesn't seem so pink for the moment.

What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  Maybe we were supposed to be in these relationships for reasons we may not know initially.  For me the gift was the profound growth detaching inspired, but I didn't know that until quite a while after I left her.

Excerpt
I know that when I will be back at my place, in my environment,  with my things, it will be easier. Until then I am in a no mans land of depression

Depression is a normal stage of grieving a loss, so what if it isn't a no man's land but exactly where you're supposed to be?  That way you can just put one foot in front of the other, one day at a time, knowing that the life of your dreams is on the other side, better than you've ever known.  Something to look forward to?
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2016, 07:53:09 AM »

Isa_lala hi,

I understand your frustration. We get to hear the most beautiful words when we are away for some reason but as you yourself say, the promises don't come true when we go back. I didn't recycle with my ex but he moved to where I live and we had contact. He was more lucid than ever, telling all the things he thought I wanted to hear, looked so mature that I was surprised (his emails before that were full of cognitive distortions). We didn't recycle but were in the same circle for a bit and immaturity showed up so quickly - even though we were not in a relationship. I think it takes shorter and shorter for some men with BPD to revert to anger and aggression.

If the messages are stressing you out, how would you feel if you didn't read them?

As for our negative feelings, you are just out of a highly conflicted relationship and still are not completely free from him - there is the message bombing, there are house issues to be solved etc. But I wouldn't judge my future now. You say that going back to your own place will be positive for you, which is a little bit pink, yes? Can you think of anything positive to do while you are still in this other place?

How did your three-day break go?


A little note: A bit of anger, bitterness etc are very normal at this stage. In abusive relationships, we exercise super-human self-control for our safety. And then when we are safer, a lot of anger comes up. All the more reason to detach.

Hang in there!  
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2016, 04:04:40 PM »

He regrets to not have done anything before, but of course he now will seek for help because he loves me and doesn't want to lose what is the most precious in his life, he says that we could have done more activities together as a couple, that we should have put more attention to our couple etc.

It would be so tempting to believe that ... .I already have in the past and nothing of what he promised happened.

But when he is losing me, he becomes the man I love and the man I would have liked to be with full time. Siren calls... .

Yes, the push/pull nature of a relationship with a borderline; when he's feeling abandoned he will be whomever he needs to be to reestablish the attachment, and when that feeling is soothed, he will be someone else.  It would be great if these relationships were stable, but they are inherently unstable.

And I feel depressed because these 4 last years were such a waste... .I regret to have been caught in this rs. I am bitter a little bit and my future life doesn't seem so pink for the moment.

What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  Maybe we were supposed to be in these relationships for reasons we may not know initially.  For me the gift was the profound growth detaching inspired, but I didn't know that until quite a while after I left her.

I know that when I will be back at my place, in my environment,  with my things, it will be easier. Until then I am in a no mans land of depression

Depression is a normal stage of grieving a loss, so what if it isn't a no man's land but exactly where you're supposed to be?  That way you can just put one foot in front of the other, one day at a time, knowing that the life of your dreams is on the other side, better than you've ever known.  Something to look forward to?

You are right in the way that this relationship acted like a serious wake up call! I have always knew that I put others'needs ahead of mine, but at this point, it was the first time. And it will probably be the last time. That is the positive of this relationship. Plus of course other things from the day to day life with my bf.

I will take one step at a time. I am enjoying the rest of my short vacations with my son and tomorrow is another day
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2016, 04:10:03 PM »

Isa_lala hi,

I understand your frustration. We get to hear the most beautiful words when we are away for some reason but as you yourself say, the promises don't come true when we go back. I didn't recycle with my ex but he moved to where I live and we had contact. He was more lucid than ever, telling all the things he thought I wanted to hear, looked so mature that I was surprised (his emails before that were full of cognitive distortions). We didn't recycle but were in the same circle for a bit and immaturity showed up so quickly - even though we were not in a relationship. I think it takes shorter and shorter for some men with BPD to revert to anger and aggression.

If the messages are stressing you out, how would you feel if you didn't read them?

As for our negative feelings, you are just out of a highly conflicted relationship and still are not completely free from him - there is the message bombing, there are house issues to be solved etc. But I wouldn't judge my future now. You say that going back to your own place will be positive for you, which is a little bit pink, yes? Can you think of anything positive to do while you are still in this other place?

How did your three-day break go?


A little note: A bit of anger, bitterness etc are very normal at this stage. In abusive relationships, we exercise super-human self-control for our safety. And then when we are safer, a lot of anger comes up. All the more reason to detach.

Hang in there!  

Thank you. I know that it is typical to be so nice when we are leaving... .It had worked in the past, But now, it is too late.

I extended my short vacations for one more day because of a snow storm making the driving a little bit too dangerous. We visited one more museum today and took advantage of the inside pool and spa in the hotel. I haven't responded to my bf since Monday morning.

I will email him tomorrow to know where he is in his apartment search.

I feel better tonight but I think that when we are depressed, mornings are more difficult than evenings.
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2016, 08:11:27 AM »

He just left me a phone message so disturbing for me. It's like all my convictions were blown away... .

I am just totally mixed up and cannot think clearly... .

For sure, he is moving out, he started consulting a T and I will do the same to de tangle my feelings before making any decision. For the moment, I stick with the break up decision.

Help, it hurts so much!
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2016, 08:32:02 AM »

You are right in the way that this relationship acted like a serious wake up call! I have always knew that I put others'needs ahead of mine, but at this point, it was the first time. And it will probably be the last time. That is the positive of this relationship.

Isa, don't let go of positive aspects of yourself because of this relationship.  A healthy relationship requires you to sometimes put your partners needs ahead of your own and for them to put your needs ahead of theirs.  There is nothing wrong with doing this and it is an essential part of a healthy relationship

What I feel is important is to know when your partner expects/requires you to do this without reciprocation.  This is unhealthy and what you should hopefully learn from all this is how to recognize when this happening. 

He just left me a phone message so disturbing for me. It's like all my convictions were blown away... .

I am just totally mixed up and cannot think clearly... .

For sure, he is moving out, he started consulting a T and I will do the same to de tangle my feelings before making any decision. For the moment, I stick with the break up decision.

Help, it hurts so much!

Best thing for both you and him is distance.  You need to heal, he needs to confront his demons on his own for himself.  This forum is littered with empty attempts by ex's to seek help in order to (re)secure their supply and this may be just another one of those attempts. 

I understand the pain you are feeling, more than I care to admit, and you feel like you will do anything to get it to stop.  Recognize the emotions for what they are but let your rational and logical mind guide you.  You know it is best to maintain distance for both of you, don't waiver in your resolve.   
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2016, 08:40:46 AM »

Yes, I think that I must need some time away from him to heal and stand back from the emotions that may make me take the bad decision
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2016, 08:47:19 AM »

Yes, I think that I must need some time away from him to heal and stand back from the emotions that may make me take the bad decision

Good Isa.  Recognize you are deep in the FOG right now.  I know it is difficult to see anything with clarity when you are swimming in a FOG so thick you don't know what is up/down, forward/back.  :)istance is the only thing that will help clear the FOG so you can see with clarity and make wise and rational decisions.  Be strong and believe in yourself.
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2016, 11:56:01 AM »

He just left me a phone message so disturbing for me. It's like all my convictions were blown away... .

I am just totally mixed up and cannot think clearly... .

For sure, he is moving out, he started consulting a T and I will do the same to de tangle my feelings before making any decision. For the moment, I stick with the break up decision.

Help, it hurts so much!

That's actually a good thing Isa.  You got a few days away from him, remember the museum and the spa with your son, and then you heard from him, so now you get the contrast.  And hearing from him made you crazy.  So now you get a glimpse of what it's like to be emotionally involved with someone with a mental illness, and what it's like when you're not.  Great information you can use to make the best decision for you and your son, and it's important to not communicate with him for a while so you can get your head straight.  Keep talking to us... .
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2016, 12:45:50 PM »

I will have to be very strong because he seems to have a mission: get me back in the r/s and seems to not take no as an answer ...

He wants me to call him. My first thought was to do it tonight but after all, it will make me feel bad. So, instead of calling him for him to feel better I will not for me to feel better

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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2016, 01:18:34 PM »

So, instead of calling him for him to feel better I will not for me to feel better

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  There you go!  Sounds like a woman taking her power back, and good for you!
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2016, 06:26:10 AM »

I wrote him an email last night saying that I will take a few more days without reading his email for me to heal.

And I will.

Before going to sleep, I thought of having him out of my life and I felt so peaceful that I know for sure that I want something else in my life.

And he should be out of the house on March 15 and the temporary rental where I am in ends the 17 so it is perfect.

I look forward going back to my place among my things.

It will help healing
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2016, 08:32:52 AM »

I feel so depressed. My son is bored too. He used to play with my BF son and now, it is more difficult for him. A chance he is going back to school on Monday.

I don't have any energy for entertaining him.

I read an email from my BF. I know that I shouldn't have but I cannot stop doing this. I really must not read his emails.

I feel lonely, not because I am alone, and not with my BF, but just lonely and depressed... .I know I will soon feel better but it is presently hard.
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2016, 08:55:38 AM »

I feel so depressed. My son is bored too. He used to play with my BF son and now, it is more difficult for him. A chance he is going back to school on Monday.

I don't have any energy for entertaining him.

I read an email from my BF. I know that I shouldn't have but I cannot stop doing this. I really must not read his emails.

I feel lonely, not because I am alone, and not with my BF, but just lonely and depressed... .I know I will soon feel better but it is presently hard.

March 15 is not far away and this is temporary.  Think how great it will be when you get settled into your home and you son goes to school and finds playmates and comes home to a stable home.  Something to look forward to!

And the best thing you can do about loneliness and depression is don't make them wrong or bad, and feel them all the way.  You're in transition right now, our emotions are never wrong, and they're meant to be felt, the only way out is through.  Plus they can teach us something along the way, an important part being as you're feeling them, keep sight of your goals; present emotions don't have much to do with future reality, unless you live there full time, which you won't.

Excerpt
I read an email from my BF. I know that I shouldn't have but I cannot stop doing this. I really must not read his emails.

Based on how you feel when you read them, yes you probably shouldn't.  Interesting though, what do you get, or what do you avoid, by reading them?  It can be illuminating to discover your drive as you consider opening one and reading it.
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Isa_lala
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2016, 09:09:20 AM »

I feel so depressed. My son is bored too. He used to play with my BF son and now, it is more difficult for him. A chance he is going back to school on Monday.

I don't have any energy for entertaining him.

I read an email from my BF. I know that I shouldn't have but I cannot stop doing this. I really must not read his emails.

I feel lonely, not because I am alone, and not with my BF, but just lonely and depressed... .I know I will soon feel better but it is presently hard.

March 15 is not far away and this is temporary.  Think how great it will be when you get settled into your home and you son goes to school and finds playmates and comes home to a stable home.  Something to look forward to!

And the best thing you can do about loneliness and depression is don't make them wrong or bad, and feel them all the way.  You're in transition right now, our emotions are never wrong, and they're meant to be felt, the only way out is through.  Plus they can teach us something along the way, an important part being as you're feeling them, keep sight of your goals; present emotions don't have much to do with future reality, unless you live there full time, which you won't.

I read an email from my BF. I know that I shouldn't have but I cannot stop doing this. I really must not read his emails.

Based on how you feel when you read them, yes you probably shouldn't.  Interesting though, what do you get, or what do you avoid, by reading them?  It can be illuminating to discover your drive as you consider opening one and reading it.

I think I read his emails to know in which kind of mood he is. I have always felt better when he was feeling ok, and bad when he was upset. His mood has always affected me. So, if I tell him I will not answer him for a few days, I read his email to know how he took it. I know it is totally unhealthy. I am dreaming of the day I will not have any contact with him AT ALL.

That is crazy to let someone affects you so much... .
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2016, 11:13:56 AM »

I think I read his emails to know in which kind of mood he is. I have always felt better when he was feeling ok, and bad when he was upset. His mood has always affected me. So, if I tell him I will not answer him for a few days, I read his email to know how he took it. I know it is totally unhealthy. I am dreaming of the day I will not have any contact with him AT ALL.

That is crazy to let someone affects you so much... .

It's normal to have someone else's emotions affect us when we're emotionally involved with them, and it can be a real roller coaster ride when that person has a personality disorder and is unstable, as we've all experienced.  I wouldn't say it's unhealthy to wonder how he's feeling, it's a normal response to something you've been emotionally invested in for a long time, and as you detach, and eventually let go entirely, what he's feeling will matter less and less.

Unhealthy would be considering it your responsibility to manage his emotions, and even take on the identity of being his emotional manager; that's called codependency, and I don't think you went there.

Excerpt
I am dreaming of the day I will not have any contact with him AT ALL.

When that happens is up to you, and it could be today if you say so.  And if the prospect of that is painful, it's helpful to dig into why, so you can process those emotions moving forward.  I know there are the logistics of getting him out of your home, and those can be handled as purely business if you say so.  Take care of you!
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2016, 11:21:56 AM »

I believe , and I may be wrong, that his moving out will be softer if I don't cut the contact with him. For sure, I will respect what I said, not responding to him until Minday or Tuesday

After that, I will ask him to discuss the things we bought together to know who keeps what

But you are right I could cut the communication as of today if I want. But not sure that it is what I want. I may prefer to know how his moving out is going

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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2016, 12:07:47 PM »

And he should be out of the house on March 15 and the temporary rental where I am in ends the 17 so it is perfect.  I look forward going back to my place among my things.

Isa, just as a precautionary measure you should be prepared to deal with the possibility he may not leave by the 15th.  

Cover all your bases.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2016, 04:10:24 PM »

I know

A friend of mine could put us up, so that's ok. I also know someone who offered me a room with a private bath in their basement, so I feel ok should I couldn't go back to my place before the 17.

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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2016, 06:17:14 AM »

I spoke with the T yesterday and it helped me a lot. I finally recognized that it is such a lack of respect from him to write me dozens of emails each day when I said that I wanted to not communicate with him. He could send one or 2 emails saying that he loves me and bla bla bla, but sending me all these emails, sometimes with one sentence only is responding to HIS needs, not mine.

It was the same with all the text messages he used to send me when we didn't live together, it was so energy consuming for me, it was like a mental torture.

He has never considered MY needs, never. It has always been about HIS emotional needs. For the rest, I was like a princess, he was taking good care of me.

And it is also a way of trying to control me by emailing me like this. I have let him get the control of me... .

And now, I am not anymore depressed by his emails, but angry.

I will write him an email telling him clearly what I feel and what I want and that's it. He doesn't want to understand because he denies what I want? too bad.
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2016, 06:30:40 AM »

It is understandable that he is trying to hold onto something he feels he needs.  He is desperate to maintain some type of connection with you, not all that different than a child being separated from a parent for the first time.  Like a parent though you have to be firm in your resolve.  If you can see this for what it is maybe it will be easier for you to handle the onslaught? 
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2016, 06:48:10 AM »

And now, I am not anymore depressed by his emails, but angry.

I will write him an email telling him clearly what I feel and what I want and that's it. He doesn't want to understand because he denies what I want? too bad.

There you go, anger is good!  And notice the depression passed, and the anger will too, all part of the grieving process on the way to detachment.

And we could say that a borderline's behavior is disrespectful, focused entirely on his needs, and controlling, which it is, and digging a little further we can see how he doesn't have a choice, with a chaotic and unstable sense of self and emotions he can't soothe, he's flailing against the reality of living with a mental illness.  Sad really, and one of the next emotions you might experience is shock at how far into that you went, how enmeshed you got, which is very eye opening, like what the hell was I doing?  Then we get to cut ourselves some slack, go easy on ourselves, we didn't know, we'd never experienced something like that before, or maybe we had, it reminds us of how we grew up; something to think about moving forward, great fuel for growth.  Take care of you!
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2016, 11:35:08 AM »

And now, I am not anymore depressed by his emails, but angry.

I will write him an email telling him clearly what I feel and what I want and that's it. He doesn't want to understand because he denies what I want? too bad.

There you go, anger is good!  And notice the depression passed, and the anger will too, all part of the grieving process on the way to detachment.

And we could say that a borderline's behavior is disrespectful, focused entirely on his needs, and controlling, which it is, and digging a little further we can see how he doesn't have a choice, with a chaotic and unstable sense of self and emotions he can't soothe, he's flailing against the reality of living with a mental illness.  Sad really, and one of the next emotions you might experience is shock at how far into that you went, how enmeshed you got, which is very eye opening, like what the hell was I doing?  Then we get to cut ourselves some slack, go easy on ourselves, we didn't know, we'd never experienced something like that before, or maybe we had, it reminds us of how we grew up; something to think about moving forward, great fuel for growth.  Take care of you!

I did ask myself how I could have supported these behaviours for so long. I was very sad to realize it was because I had a lack of self esteem and that I didn't "love" myself as much as I loved my BF. For the moment, I don't blame me. I take it as a very important wake-up call, a lesson that I learned the hard way and that it probably took me this king do relationship to be able to see more clearly in me. For sure it will make me grow.

Thank you for all your kind words. I know that I will very soon go better.
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2016, 12:25:38 PM »

Hey Isa-

Excerpt
I did ask myself how I could have supported these behaviours for so long. I was very sad to realize it was because I had a lack of self esteem and that I didn't "love" myself as much as I loved my BF. For the moment, I don't blame me.



And you really don't ever need to "blame" yourself, you can just decide that this experience gave you information about yourself you didn't know before, which you can now use to grow, on the way to creating the life of your dreams.  And there's no hurry, best to just settle into the new improved you and a comfortable pace.

Excerpt
I take it as a very important wake-up call, a lesson that I learned the hard way and that it probably took me this king do relationship to be able to see more clearly in me. For sure it will make me grow.

Yes, many of us consider that the gift of the relationship, something to look forward to as you detach.
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2016, 04:15:05 PM »

I think that I need to maintain the NC. Or should I say go back to NC.

This morning, I wrote an email to my BF telling him again why I left and I said that he may print my email to bring it to his next session with the T to work on understanding why he sees hope (to go back together) where there is no hope.

He understood and asked some more questions which I answered by telling him that I had already given the same answers to him.

Then, what I said and what he seemed to have understood apparently disappeared in his head. And back again with the same song... .He doesn't want to lose me etc.

So, no choice. Talking to him and answering his questions doesn't work... .Should I say no each time like we do with small kids when we want them to stop doing something?

Or NC is the best?

Back to square one with my first question in this topic... .

I think I will try repeating that no, we don't go back together and if he misses me, that's the effect of the BREAK-UP!

And then, if he insists, I will have no choice to go NC

Or I go NC right away... .
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2016, 05:07:44 PM »

So, you left without telling him? Who wouldn't freak out? I think it would be a good idea to at let him know it's over.
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« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2016, 06:29:46 PM »

there is no hope.

To a borderline "there is no hope" means total abandonment, the worst thing that can happen, so:

Excerpt
Then, what I said and what he seemed to have understood apparently disappeared in his head. And back again with the same song... .He doesn't want to lose me etc.

he had a strong emotional reaction to that abandonment, couldn't soothe it, and so went back to the tools he's been perfecting his whole life to feel better: cognitive distortion, compartmentalization, denial, whatever else, to make the feelings just go away.

Excerpt
Or NC is the best?

I think I will try repeating that no, we don't go back together and if he misses me, that's the effect of the BREAK-UP!

And then, if he insists, I will have no choice to go NC

Or I go NC right away... .

If the relationship is over there really is no need to talk to him at all, except he's in your house and needs to get out, but beyond that, no need.  Whether or not you continue communicating with him is something you control, and it's helpful to look at your desire to continue to, which you've done, but continue looking, since you wouldn't be doing it unless you were getting something out of it.  You've mentioned you want to know how he takes things, and is there anything beyond that?
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« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2016, 06:59:42 PM »

So, you left without telling him? Who wouldn't freak out? I think it would be a good idea to at let him know it's over.

Of course I told him that I was breaking up and that is over. He just doesn't want to accept it
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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2016, 07:04:06 PM »

there is no hope.

To a borderline "there is no hope" means total abandonment, the worst thing that can happen, so:

Then, what I said and what he seemed to have understood apparently disappeared in his head. And back again with the same song... .He doesn't want to lose me etc.



he had a strong emotional reaction to that abandonment, couldn't soothe it, and so went back to the tools he's been perfecting his whole life to feel better: cognitive distortion, compartmentalization, denial, whatever else, to make the feelings just go away.

Or NC is the best?

I think I will try repeating that no, we don't go back together and if he misses me, that's the effect of the BREAK-UP!

And then, if he insists, I will have no choice to go NC

Or I go NC right away... .


If the relationship is over there really is no need to talk to him at all, except he's in your house and needs to get out, but beyond that, no need.  Whether or not you continue communicating with him is something you control, and it's helpful to look at your desire to continue to, which you've done, but continue looking, since you wouldn't be doing it unless you were getting something out of it.  You've mentioned you want to know how he takes things, and is there anything beyond that?

For the moment, we still need to talk about the belongings we bought together and about his moving out ( I will have to know if he really leaves on the 15 and agree on how to get back the key of the house)

So I might communicate with him only to speak about logistic and money

Sorry, I didn't understand what the last 2 sentences (after "whether... ." meant.

English is my second language so I may miss some parts, sorry
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2016, 07:34:41 PM »

For the moment, we still need to talk about the belongings we bought together and about his moving out ( I will have to know if he really leaves on the 15 and agree on how to get back the key of the house)

So I might communicate with him only to speak about logistic and money

Sorry, I didn't understand what the last 2 sentences (after "whether... ." meant.

English is my second language so I may miss some parts, sorry

No problem, your English is fine. 

You said:
Excerpt
I wrote an email to my BF telling him again why I left and I said that he may print my email to bring it to his next session with the T to work on understanding why he sees hope (to go back together) where there is no hope.

He understood and asked some more questions which I answered by telling him that I had already given the same answers to him.

  which is emotional communication, and it can be beneficial to discover why you did that.  I know, this is pretty new, you only left him recently, it's normal, and as you go through this it can help to look at why you do what you do from a detached, unemotional place, curious, seeing what you can learn about yourself.

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« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2016, 10:50:43 PM »

So, you left without telling him? Who wouldn't freak out? I think it would be a good idea to at let him know it's over.

Of course I told him that I was breaking up and that is over. He just doesn't want to accept it

Ok, you did your job as a responsible human being. I would give closure one more shot. If that doesn't work you have no choice but to ignore it.
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« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2016, 05:59:34 AM »

Fromheeltohealth, I may have had emotional communication but I don't want to be unemotional and cold with him. For me, being this way would mean  that I don't even care about him, that he doesn't count for me and this is not true. I don't hate him. I may feel anger about his behaviours, but not who he is as a person

But as this emotional communication seems to not work, I will be more factual, speaking only about the house and our belongings, not in a cold way, but nothing regarding my emotions nor his

Hurting

I may tell him again when he would have left the house and gave me back the key. I will probably ignore his emotional emails or emails with questions I have already answered.

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« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2016, 06:07:44 AM »

9 emails from him this morning (sent last night... .)

Friday, there were 17 emails during the day... .
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2016, 06:46:17 AM »

9 emails from him this morning (sent last night... .)

Friday, there were 17 emails during the day... .

Yikes ... .How are you doing today after reading them?
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2016, 07:36:57 AM »

9 emails from him this morning (sent last night... .)

Friday, there were 17 emails during the day... .

Yikes ... .How are you doing today after reading them?

I make comments to myself. Like he said that he never would have left the way I did (what an unacceptable way of breaking up!) and I thought: yeah, right, you have done so much worse during the past 3 years!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2016, 08:25:36 AM »

I make comments to myself. Like he said that he never would have left the way I did (what an unacceptable way of breaking up!) and I thought: yeah, right, you have done so much worse during the past 3 years!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

You did what you felt was necessary under the circumstances.  Don't let him make you feel guilty for this.
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2016, 10:57:37 AM »

I may have had emotional communication but I don't want to be unemotional and cold with him. For me, being this way would mean  that I don't even care about him, that he doesn't count for me and this is not true. I don't hate him. I may feel anger about his behaviours, but not who he is as a person

But as this emotional communication seems to not work, I will be more factual, speaking only about the house and our belongings, not in a cold way, but nothing regarding my emotions nor his

Yes, I understand.  How you care about someone and let them go at the same time, a letting go with caring, can be a difficult, difficult to find the balance.  A challenge can be not getting emotionally involved yourself, the ideal being conducting business while being emotionally warm and caring, while staying emotionally detached yourself; you seem grounded and capable of that right now.

Excerpt
I make comments to myself. Like he said that he never would have left the way I did (what an unacceptable way of breaking up!) and I thought: yeah, right, you have done so much worse during the past 3 years! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Nice focus!  That is you staying emotionally detached.
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2016, 11:26:39 AM »

You know that this website Lifts so much my spirit and helps me heal my pain thanks to you who take the time to encourage me.

I do feel grounded even if I know that I am depressed. But I will take good care of myself, that s for sure. Last email from my bf said that he is sure I am making a huge mistake. Not!

I know a better life is coming soon. I start very slowly to make plans as a someone would do after a serious injury or a serious illness. It is a recovery.
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« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2016, 08:33:12 AM »

It's been 2 weeks already. It is going fast. I am planning to go back to my place on March 16 and on the 17, I am back to work. My doctor told me that if I would stay longer away from work, I will would be much more difficult to go back. It is easy to fall into a more serious depression.

So this morning, I went in a coffee shop to have a latte and read the paper and I will do my grocery and go back "home" to rest until I pick up my child at school this afternoon.

I take it easy... .
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« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2016, 05:26:01 PM »

Today, I felt that my BF was more quiet, sliding slowly toward the acceptation of the break up. Of course, tomorrow is another day, so will see.

He said that my place will be all mine on the 16. He is supposed to finish everything to free the place in the morning.

I will have only the afternoon left to bring back my things. But that s ok, I know that it could have been worse and that I am lucky to be able to go back so soon
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« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2016, 06:09:16 PM »

That sounds good Isa, let's hope it goes smoothly and he keeps his distance, then you can get settled in your home and continue detaching and healing.
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« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2016, 07:35:31 PM »

Yes, we will keep our fingers crossed

However, he told me many times today ( by email) that he wanted to make love with me, asked me many times if I was still attracted by him and if I would like to have sex with him   
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« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2016, 07:59:27 PM »

Yes, we will keep our fingers crossed

However, he told me many times today ( by email) that he wanted to make love with me, asked me many times if I was still attracted by him and if I would like to have sex with him   

So hopefully you have a plan to stop reading those once you're back in your home?
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« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2016, 06:13:23 AM »

Yes, we will keep our fingers crossed

However, he told me many times today ( by email) that he wanted to make love with me, asked me many times if I was still attracted by him and if I would like to have sex with him   

So hopefully you have a plan to stop reading those once you're back in your home?

The only plan I could have is to not read it. I think I have an option in my email box to redirect them autmoatically in a file as soon as they arrive. I keep them in case I need to go to the police to oblige him to not contact me. These emails will be the proof I tell the truth.

Yesterday was a better day for me, so I responded to some emails. Today, it is more a "bad" day, feeling tired of not sleeping well because of a cold I have, so I will not read them.

I booked a therapeutic massage at 9 am for a hour and I lunch with a friend, so I should be ok
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« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2016, 08:03:23 AM »

Yes, keeping documentation in case you need it is a good plan Isa, and you can also intentionally shift the focus towards your bright future, a future without him in it, that way you'll be moving towards something instead of away from something else, all part of the process.  And a massage and lunch with a friend sounds good!  Take care of you!
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« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2016, 07:18:40 PM »

Everyday is different... .Today, he wants to invite me for a dinner and make plans for summer vacations with me! He still hopes that we will work the things out

It's like a nightmare except that I won't wake up !
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« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2016, 10:14:36 PM »

Everyday is different... .Today, he wants to invite me for a dinner and make plans for summer vacations with me! He still hopes that we will work the things out

It's like a nightmare except that I won't wake up !

Extinction burst, he's thinking of everything he possibly can to persuade you.  Just think, a week from now you'll be back in your home, and it will be time to decide if engaging with him, even reading his emails, is helping or hurting your detachment and healing; the nightmare ends when you say so, but not until then.
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« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2016, 02:48:07 AM »

You say you have a habit of putting the needs of others before your own. And the question you ask here is how to make your partner accept the break-up.

I think you should ask yourself what you want and what you need instead of considering your ex partner's needs. You say are bored and dissatisfied with your ex partner, so I assume you don't want to have contact with him. Then don't have contact with him.

What he wants should not be important to you. He is your ex partner now. No matter how persistent his attempts to contact you, he shouldn't be able to make his situation your problem.
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« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2016, 05:51:19 AM »

You say you have a habit of putting the needs of others before your own. And the question you ask here is how to make your partner accept the break-up.

I think you should ask yourself what you want and what you need instead of considering your ex partner's needs. You say are bored and dissatisfied with your ex partner, so I assume you don't want to have contact with him. Then don't have contact with him.

What he wants should not be important to you. He is your ex partner now. No matter how persistent his attempts to contact you, he shouldn't be able to make his situation your problem.

You are totally right. I guess I try to smooth things until he leaves the house. Then it will be easier for me to keep him away from my life and I will be more firm.

We still will some money related discussions to have as he doesn't want to speak about it now. But when he will be out of the house and I will be back at my place, I will give him an ultimatum to discuss this topic. After the date I will give, too bad, no money arrangement, it will be too late (it is me who owe him money)
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« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2016, 05:54:43 AM »

Everyday is different... .Today, he wants to invite me for a dinner and make plans for summer vacations with me! He still hopes that we will work the things out

It's like a nightmare except that I won't wake up !

Extinction burst, he's thinking of everything he possibly can to persuade you.  Just think, a week from now you'll be back in your home, and it will be time to decide if engaging with him, even reading his emails, is helping or hurting your detachment and healing; the nightmare ends when you say so, but not until then.

You know how many emails I received yesterday? 50!

So this morning, when I woke up, I was very upset and I told him how many emails he had sent me and precised that I had only read a few of them and offered him to meet this Saturday when our 2 boys will be at their sport class. He said no. Ok, too bad, but I will communicate the way I want, and that's it! It doesn't suit you? Too bad.

I am fed up. And you are right I really should stop thinking of him and start thinking of me only
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« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2016, 10:29:13 AM »

Excerpt
You know how many emails I received yesterday? 50!

50 emails in one day sounds pretty desperate, and irritating!

Excerpt
So this morning, when I woke up, I was very upset and I told him how many emails he had sent me and precised that I had only read a few of them and offered him to meet this Saturday when our 2 boys will be at their sport class. He said no. Ok, too bad, but I will communicate the way I want, and that's it! It doesn't suit you? Too bad.

I am fed up. And you are right I really should stop thinking of him and start thinking of me only

At this stage anger is good, you can use it.  He is who he is, you can't change him, radical acceptance it's called around here.  But you can use the anger to create distance between you; it's useful when you have history together, still have an emotional connection, and have mixed feelings, the anger can help you do what you know is right.
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« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2016, 02:07:44 PM »

I am fed up. And you are right I really should stop thinking of him and start thinking of me only

Isa,

I think it is ok for you to think of him if it makes your life and detaching easier.  Only you can know what is best for you and what level of contact you can handle.
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« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2016, 03:20:43 PM »

Yes, that s true. It is very difficult to put me ahead of him. Not used to. It is like a move you do wrong in a sport. You get used to do it wrong and when you learn how to do it right, it is much more difficult to correct the move than if you had done it right at the first place

So i must change an habit I have had for years... .Not easy.

I just realized that during this break up, so far, I am doing what I have always done with him: explain my thoughts and believe that he will understand. WRONG!

He seems to understand what I say, but as soon as his emotions take too much place, it is like I had said nothing, that he had not understood what I said... .

So I stop to explain. Worthless

He just wrote me if we could speak to each other tonight or at least write to each other but I don't feel like it. Don't have energy for that. I don't even respond... .And will not read his other emails for the rest of the day

I still read his emails because once in while he gives me info about the house. But in a week from now, I won't even read his emails.  
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« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2016, 05:12:29 PM »

Yes, that s true. It is very difficult to put me ahead of him. Not used to. It is like a move you do wrong in a sport. You get used to do it wrong and when you learn how to do it right, it is much more difficult to correct the move than if you had done it right at the first place

So i must change an habit I have had for years... .Not easy.

And think about it like this Isa: if you put your needs first with him, what would his reaction be?  A healthy relationship is one of interdependence, as opposed to dependence or codependence; sometimes we're weak and need support, sometimes we're strong and the other person needs support, sometimes both people are strong and we just have fun together.  But a borderline, someone in constant emotional pain, is always going to need it to be all about them, plus there's the issue of control, a tool a borderline uses to deal with the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment.  Not mean and calculated necessarily, borderlines are doing the best they can, just like everyone else, but it is what it is.

So as we grow, learn new things about ourselves, our relationships can change, either grow closer or farther apart.  So again, if you insisted that your needs matter, sometimes they're more important to you than his, and you refused to abandon yourself anymore, what would his reaction be?  If your ex is anything like mine it wouldn't go well, there would be lots of emotional flare-ups and chaos, and that is unacceptable to me, up to you to decide if it's acceptable to you, right now it isn't, and good for you!
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« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2016, 05:33:36 AM »

I just realized that during this break up, so far, I am doing what I have always done with him: explain my thoughts and believe that he will understand. WRONG!

He seems to understand what I say, but as soon as his emotions take too much place, it is like I had said nothing, that he had not understood what I said... .

I completely understand this and it is very frustrating.  My ex was very much like this as well.  I could explain stuff to her and she seemed to see and understand but then do or say something that showed she didn't see/understand at all.  Thing about this is even if it appeared she didn't understand she is still aware and somewhere in that mind it is rattling around between her own overwhelming emotions and needs. 

He just wrote me if we could speak to each other tonight or at least write to each other but I don't feel like it. Don't have energy for that. I don't even respond... .And will not read his other emails for the rest of the day

I still read his emails because once in while he gives me info about the house. But in a week from now, I won't even read his emails.  

Do what you feel is right for you Isa just don't beat yourself up for still caring about him.   
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« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2016, 05:29:57 PM »

The trick is that it is easy to be manipulated again... .I just have...

I thought of his needs before thinking of mine... .Bad habits...

Anyway, as you said C.stein, I will not beat myself up and leave the time help me to change these habits
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« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2016, 09:38:52 AM »

The trick is that it is easy to be manipulated again... .I just have...

I thought of his needs before thinking of mine... .Bad habits...

Anyway, as you said C.stein, I will not beat myself up and leave the time help me to change these habits

Yes, but you caught yourself doing it; would you have done that a year or two ago?  If not that's growth, and good for you!
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« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2016, 03:39:55 PM »

I know that I wouldn't have done that even a few months ago. Big improvement

More recent news: I saw my ex this morning and we spent almost an hour together, talking... .

I knew I might see him because my son went back to his sport class this morning (after a few weeks break following a surgery) and my ex son goes to the same class on Saturday mornings. He was waiting for me in his car. Yesterday, I offered him to have a coffee somewhere during our sons class. He preferred to walk so we took advantage of this sunny and not too cold day to take a walk and talk.

He still loves me and still wants me back in his life but not now. He is seeing a T and he knows he has a lot to work on before being able to get back in a relationship. But in his heart, it is clear that I am the one.

I didn't feel the courage to tell him that I was not feeling the same way. I thought that it wouldn't go through anyway. When he asked me if I still loved him, I said yes but maybe not as much as he loves me. This may not go through as well as he has a selective memory... .

We agreed that his numerous emails were too much and that he has to give me time to heal and same for him. As well, as I said, he has stuff to work on with the T.

He said he is doing this for him, not for me, that the relationship and the break up was a wake-up call for him too.

The thing is that he has in mind to go back together in a while. He asked me to keep my heart open for him to have a chance to get my heart back.

I feel a little bit guilty to not have told him the truth (that I don't see myself going back with him)

I was not feeling upside down by my meeting with him. I know that I don't love him as much as he says he loves me. The r/s went too far in the bad way.

What should I do?
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« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2016, 04:18:32 PM »

What should I do?

I say give yourself some time, more time, away from him without communicating.  How you feel today, after only moving out a couple of weeks ago and seeing him this morning, is not how you will feel 3 months, 6 months, a year from now.  As the fog clears and we get our feet on the ground our perceptions of the relationship and our partner will change too.

I don't think you owe him anything, but do you think so Isa?  You broke up, you don't need to tell him anything.  Sure, you can keep your heart open, as long as you're honest with yourself, and if you don't want to be with him, then that's the way it is.  And if you stay away and stay consistent long enough he will just go find another attachment; a borderline must have an attachment.  Take care of you!
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« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2016, 04:21:20 PM »

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