Contact: Emotional Aftermath

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Continuing this thread.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292531.0



Well, I finally read it about 30 mins ago.   Not really sure why she chose to Re: that particular email.  She addressed nothing I said in that email.  This was one of the reasons I thought she might contact me so I am not all that surprised.

It would appear her announcement that she was going to move has come about.  So she is gone, to where I do not know.  Probably out of the area as she said she was going to.  Apparently she left some of my things there for me and forgot she left them, remembers 4 days after she was gone.  


I had some things left out for you last Thursday.  Luckily the new tenants saved it.  Please let me know if you want those items back.  There are the movie dvds and a long blue rope.  Also the box for the canon lens is in there.

Please let me know when you can swing by to pick it up so I can tell the tenants that you will be by to pick it up.  If you don't want it I will also let them know they can either keep it or throw it away.

Thanks!


I admit I am feeling a lot of sadness for several reasons.  

First, she still cannot find it within her heart to apologize for anything.  The coldness of her heart is staggering.  

Second, she is gone forever and with that comes a finality that cannot be escaped.  There was perhaps a very small part of me that still hoped for the happy ending.  

I suppose I do not have to be afraid of running into her anymore, if she really has moved out of the area.  

I don't really know what to do with this email.

[C.Stein]

Continuing this thread.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292531.0



Well, I finally read it about 30 mins ago.   Not really sure why she chose to Re: that particular email.  She addressed nothing I said in that email.  This was one of the reasons I thought she might contact me so I am not all that surprised.

It would appear her announcement that she was going to move has come about.  So she is gone, to where I do not know.  Probably out of the area as she said she was going to.  Apparently she left some of my things there for me and forgot she left them, remembers 4 days after she was gone.  


I had some things left out for you last Thursday.  Luckily the new tenants saved it.  Please let me know if you want those items back.  There are the movie dvds and a long blue rope.  Also the box for the canon lens is in there.

Please let me know when you can swing by to pick it up so I can tell the tenants that you will be by to pick it up.  If you don't want it I will also let them know they can either keep it or throw it away.

Thanks!


I admit I am feeling a lot of sadness for several reasons.  

First, she still cannot find it within her heart to apologize for anything.  The coldness of her heart is staggering.  

Second, she is gone forever and with that comes a finality that cannot be escaped.  There was perhaps a very small part of me that still hoped for the happy ending.  

I suppose I do not have to be afraid of running into her anymore, if she really has moved out of the area.  

I don't really know what to do with this email.

[heartandwhole]

Oh C.Stein,

I'm sorry.   I know this wasn't what you were expecting, and my heart would feel crushed after receiving such a message, too. As you said, there is a finality about the news of her moving. As painful as that fact is, it can also ultimately help with the detachment process.

I remember a huge turning pont for me was when hope died. It hurt like he!l, but it helped me to let go.

We are here for you.

heartandwhole

[HarleypsychRN]

C Stein,

Perhaps this is the closure you seek. The coldness and unemotional nature of the breakup is something I can totally relate to... .when mine left after 51 days, she was cold and unemotional... .she almost looked different in the face.

The finality is something we all have to deal with, especially those of us who are not fully detached (yet). Always remember, these people do not process emotions like you or I. They are emotionally dysregulated and mentally ill. You can click your ruby slippers three times and wish as much as you want to (I'm talking to myself now as well)... .some things in life just were not meant to be.

If you miss your pwBPD half as much as I miss mine, I feel for you with everything I have within me. Let's move on, something better is out there for you and me.

"The calendar changes, they don't" -Unknown

[jessedsickabouther]

I'm sorry

They don't care. It's that simple.  Painful.  Gut wrenchingly heartbreaking.  Sad.

There is nothing you can do or say. Many of us can imagine how you feel today and I feel your pain more than you could know.

Man hug.

[C.Stein]

I'm sorry.   I know this wasn't what you were expecting, and my heart would feel crushed after receiving such a message, too. As you said, there is a finality about the news of her moving. As painful as that fact is, it can also ultimately help with the detachment process.

I do feel crushed in some respects.  It has been exceeding difficult to let her go from my heart.  Regardless of how much damage she has done to me I still wanted that "dream" I shared with her.  I not only have to find a way to let go of her but also that dream.  Even at 8 months I still struggle with this and the email just made it very clear how much I am struggling with it.

I remember a huge turning pont for me was when hope died. It hurt like he!l, but it helped me to let go.

It is weird, because my hope was tempered with the reality of what a life with her would most likely bring, and it wasn't by any means peaches and cream.  When I have felt "hope" since being thrown away I have also felt fear at the same time.  I both wanted to try and work it out and to run away as fast as I could.  

Perhaps this is the closure you seek. The coldness and unemotional nature of the breakup is something I can totally relate to... .when mine left after 51 days, she was cold and unemotional... .she almost looked different in the face.

There is no closure here.  Her coldness post trash bin has been one of the things that has stuck with me.  How easy it was for her to replace me and delete me from her life like she never felt anything for me at all.   It is hard to accept that someone who you were/are deeply in love with can throw you away with apparent ease and no remorse, guilt or regret.  That she obviously did not really feel the deep love for me that she claimed to have and I was nothing more than an object to be thrown away when I was no longer useful or needed.

[WoundedBibi]

Continuing this thread.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292531.0



Well, I finally read it about 30 mins ago.   Not really sure why she chose to Re: that particular email.

Because it was in her inbox and it was easy? Or to rub it in she doesn't give a rodent's behind about how you feel? Or both?

She addressed nothing I said in that email.  This was one of the reasons I thought she might contact me so I am not all that surprised.

It would appear her announcement that she was going to move has come about.  So she is gone, to where I do not know.  Probably out of the area as she said she was going to.  Apparently she left some of my things there for me and forgot she left them, remembers 4 days after she was gone. 


I had some things left out for you last Thursday.  Luckily the new tenants saved it.  Please let me know if you want those items back.  There are the movie dvds and a long blue rope.  Also the box for the canon lens is in there.

Please let me know when you can swing by to pick it up so I can tell the tenants that you will be by to pick it up.  If you don't want it I will also let them know they can either keep it or throw it away.

Thanks!


I admit I am feeling a lot of sadness for several reasons.   

First, she still cannot find it within her heart to apologize for anything.  The coldness of her heart is staggering. 

I don't want to minimize the way you feel, because you feel how you feel and you have every right to do so.

But if she has BPD, even only a little as you think, at some point some BPD behaviour will come out. And pwBPD don't apologize. They either actually don't remember they did anything wrong so they don't see there is anything to apologize for. Or they suppress the shame of doing something wrong and apologizing would open the door to shame so no way she's going to go there. Or they don't get the emotional link between events and in time; it's been 8 months already so it can't possibly be you're still upset. She has moved on so you must have too.

As I said, no to minimize how you feel, but just saying she is cold goes past the fact she has BPD. And above are some reasons I picked up from pwBPD boards why they behave like they do.

Second, she is gone forever and with that comes a finality that cannot be escaped.  There was perhaps a very small part of me that still hoped for the happy ending. 

I suppose I do not have to be afraid of running into her anymore, if she really has moved out of the area.

Maybe at some point it will feel as a relief that you don't have to worry about running into her anymore.

I don't really know what to do with this email.

Do? What you are doing now, grieving whatever hope you still had for a magical happy ending. Other than that, decide if you want your stuff back or not. If not, leave it. If you do, send a short respons and take care of it with the tenants. Personally I would let the stuff go; if you haven't missed it in 8 months you can do without it.

But I would not respond to her other than about the stuff. Let her go and set yourself free.

[Sunfl0wer]

I remember a huge turning pont for me was when hope died. It hurt like he!l, but it helped me to let go.

This was my experience as well. 

Odd, because after I had my own place, my son's health improved, and even though I KNEW I would never take him back... .   (As I knew logically that we were better off)

Somehow after contacting him and him rudely expressing disgust with me, that he was dating... .  Somehow for me, that ended something inside me, call it hope?  And from that moment, I did a more thorough detaching with way more clarity and focus than before.

I think it was my heart detaching, catching up with the mind.

It was certainly a huge turning point that hurt like hell, yet I am grateful for.

[jhkbuzz]

I'm sorry.   I know this wasn't what you were expecting, and my heart would feel crushed after receiving such a message, too. As you said, there is a finality about the news of her moving. As painful as that fact is, it can also ultimately help with the detachment process.

I do feel crushed in some respects.  It has been exceeding difficult to let her go from my heart.  Regardless of how much damage she has done to me I still wanted that "dream" I shared with her.  I not only have to find a way to let go of her but also that dream.  Even at 8 months I still struggle with this and the email just made it very clear how much I am struggling with it.

I'm so sorry - we all are. There's not a person on these boards who hasn't struggled with the raw pain of letting go of our hopes and dreams for a r/s.  

I posted the following roughly 4 months after my r/s ended. It addresses this very topic.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Sometimes I wonder why I’m still crying.  It’s not like the last four years were very good – they were, at best, occasionally pleasant.  But yet I keep crying.

Intellectually I know that everything she did – the habitual lying, the repeated infidelities, the dysfunctional swings between neediness and vindictiveness – were a result of her chronic inability to regulate her emotions.  Whether this is BPD or something else entirely, the truth is that these were HER issues.  Not mine.  Not caused by me.  Not issues I could “fix.”  I KNOW this.  Intellectually, I know these patterns were present in her relationships long before I met her.  She hinted at this herself in many conversations; her best friend even confirmed it for me. Her therapist told me that the pattern of unfaithfulness I described was indicative of serious, deeply rooted issues.  But even knowing these things hasn't helped; I’m still having a hard time letting it all go.  

Yet, I realized today that I’m not crying because I want to reconcile – if she showed up on my doorstep tomorrow I couldn't talk myself into taking her back.  I’m not crying because I’m afraid to be alone – the truth is that I was never lonelier than when I was with her – and, in some ways, breaking up has been a relief.  I’m not crying because I am secretly afraid that I’m not “good enough” to be loved – I know that, while I’m not perfect, I have generous heart and a lot of love to offer.

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

_____________________________________________________________________________

There is no magic fix for the pain - but the passage of time will help. Time will help you re-write the story, no matter how much you never wanted to have to re-write it.

Much of my pain arose from my own thoughts about how the rest of my life was going to look. I had to let go and write a different story for myself. In fact, I'm still writing it.

[Isa_lala]

C.Stein, i am so sorry that the email was not the kind of email you had expected.

Does she say that she is moving out from the area or you just assume? She may just have got another place in the same neighbourhood?

If she responded to this particular (or peculiar, I never know which one to use in this case... .) email (the last one you sent if I remember well) may mean that she read it as she seems to have kept it and not deleted it. No?

I know what it feels to keep hoping for the "peaches and cream"

Maybe it is the sign that it is time for you to close that "book" (part of your life) and go on hoping these peaches and cream with someone else? What do you think?

It may be the possibility for you to finalize the grief process. I hope so

Take good care of yourself and come back here if you are struggling with difficult thoughts or feelings 

[C.Stein]

I posted the following roughly 4 months after my r/s ended. It addresses this very topic.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Sometimes I wonder why I’m still crying.  It’s not like the last four years were very good – they were, at best, occasionally pleasant.  But yet I keep crying.

Intellectually I know that everything she did – the habitual lying, the repeated infidelities, the dysfunctional swings between neediness and vindictiveness – were a result of her chronic inability to regulate her emotions.  Whether this is BPD or something else entirely, the truth is that these were HER issues.  Not mine.  Not caused by me.  Not issues I could “fix.”  I KNOW this.  Intellectually, I know these patterns were present in her relationships long before I met her.  She hinted at this herself in many conversations; her best friend even confirmed it for me. Her therapist told me that the pattern of unfaithfulness I described was indicative of serious, deeply rooted issues.  But even knowing these things hasn't helped; I’m still having a hard time letting it all go.  

Yet, I realized today that I’m not crying because I want to reconcile – if she showed up on my doorstep tomorrow I couldn't talk myself into taking her back.  I’m not crying because I’m afraid to be alone – the truth is that I was never lonelier than when I was with her – and, in some ways, breaking up has been a relief.  I’m not crying because I am secretly afraid that I’m not “good enough” to be loved – I know that, while I’m not perfect, I have generous heart and a lot of love to offer.

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

_____________________________________________________________________________

This is a relatively accurate account of how I am feeling right now, and I am sorry anyone has to ever feel this way.  Why I still have such deep feelings and pain 8 months after being thrown away is something that confuses the hell out of me.

C.Stein, i am so sorry that the email was not the kind of email you had expected.

It both was and wasn't.  I don't know if I should take this as her driving home the fact she has coldly cut me out of her life without regret or remorse, or if she is looking to reopen a line of communication and this gave her a reason to contact me.

Does she say that she is moving out from the area or you just assume? She may just have got another place in the same neighbourhood?

She told me in the last weeks of our relationship, after the 2nd discard, that she had been thinking about moving out of the area.  The last time I saw her she blurted out that she was moving and gave me reason to believe it was out of the area but did not say where specifically.

If she responded to this particular (or peculiar, I never know which one to use in this case... .) email (the last one you sent if I remember well) may mean that she read it as she seems to have kept it and not deleted it. No?

Perhaps, one can only speculate.  What I posted was everything she wrote.  There was no original content included with exception to the subject line of the email.

Worth noting it was not the last email I sent, but it was the last long one.  I did send a very short note during my intense struggles to accept the truth of what likely happened.

I know what it feels to keep hoping for the "peaches and cream"

There is a part of me that doesn't want to let her go from my heart.  I really don't know why this is.

Maybe it is the sign that it is time for you to close that "book" (part of your life) and go on hoping these peaches and cream with someone else? What do you think?

It may be the possibility for you to finalize the grief process. I hope so

This would be the logical and rational conclusion but one I have been unable to see let alone achieve.  The email just brought to the surface all the emotions that are still there.  While knowing I will eventually reach a state of indifference, the journey has been excruciatingly slow and painful.

[JerryRG]

I'm sorry you had to deal with this C.Stein

You have been such a supportive person for me and so many others here.

Hang in there and let me know if I can be of any help.

Sending prayers your way.

[zeus123]

A BPD will never take ownership of their flaws or failings, no matter what, their cognitive distortions will not go away--and you'll be helping them make you crazier, with each contact!.

Be strong and move on, try to close that chapter of your life that has brought so much chaos to your world. The only satisfaction/revenge you'll ever get with a borderline, is to shut them out/ignore them completely. The very minute that you re-engage, you're giving away your power and giving them the attention(narcissistic supply) they're craving for. In truth, the only kind of closure you can get on this, involves you coming to terms with the fact that you've tried to have functional relationship with a dysfunctional individual . Learn and grow from this experience and work hard to get well, so you can eventually be attracted to someone healthier.

[Fateful]

I would take some time to both rejoice and mourn--as strange as that sounds.

Unless you already got over the fear, you no longer have to be concerned about what may happen if you ran into her and the emotional stress that comes from that. You can live freely in your physical body; consequently, I think your emotional state will improve greatly. At the same time, her lack of physical presence and decision to move must be quite sorrowful as well. I believe someone mentioned the finality of it being so impactful and the dream or fantasy disappearing. I suppose I would wonder if you want to live with and hang onto a dream for a person who in reality does not fit that picture. Make the dream come true with someone who loves you unconditonally. Someone who, if you saw an email from in your inbox, would give you joy--not make your gut drop. I can't tell you how many emails I've got that just didn't have what I wanted to hear--because she's confabulating and telling a different story than what is reality.

I don't want to be rude and bring my story into this, but I'm going through the prelim stages of something like this. My ex mentioned she was looking to move before her last discard. As sick as it sounds, I hope it happens. It would be best for the both of us. Her lease is up in June; I guess I'll have to wait and see, although I have gone no contact for over a month and I don't think she's reaching out to me anymore. Because of the NC, she became furious at me and victimized herself.

I wish you well, C. Stein.

[steelwork]

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

_____________________________________________________________________________

There is no magic fix for the pain - but the passage of time will help. Time will help you re-write the story, no matter how much you never wanted to have to re-write it.

Much of my pain arose from my own thoughts about how the rest of my life was going to look. I had to let go and write a different story for myself. In fact, I'm still writing it.

This describes the grieving I've been doing about my family relationships--particularly my mother. It wasn't until D broke my heart that I clearly saw my r/s with my mother for what it was and was not and never could be. In that case I still have to walk through the pantomime of a mother/daughter relationship and continue to be the bigger person until one of us dies. But the same basics apply to the r/s with D., which I guess is why the truth came to me now.

Therein lies the gift, C.Stein. It's odd to call this kind of global heartbreak a gift, but this is my two cents: I believe sincerely that until you reach the point where you understand you are grieving for yourself--that she was only a player, and not as big a one as you thought--you haven't gotten what's owed you for your suffering. Once that really sinks in, she'll begin to diminish in importance. And that's what detachment is really about, right?

[HurtinNW]

I'm sending you warmth and support 

My ex touched me in ways that no one else ever has. Under the disorder there is a real soul. I thought I had found my one and only soul mate, too, and I go around and around, wanting to think the good times were all a lie. But they weren't. We had such a connection.

That's what I think we grieve. These are real people—real, hurting people. The loss to them and to us is profound.

I am so sorry for your loss.

[sweet tooth]

Do you want your stuff back? If so, go get it.  If not, tell her to shove it up her a**!

[tryingsome]

It both was and wasn't.  I don't know if I should take this as her driving home the fact she has coldly cut me out of her life without regret or remorse, or if she is looking to reopen a line of communication and this gave her a reason to contact me.


There is a part of me that doesn't want to let her go from my heart.  I really don't know why this is.

I mentioned in my previous thread the email the contents will likely be indifferent with hooks. And that is what you got.

Now the question is back to you. Do you want this person in your life?

If not, they ignore the email; don't pick up your stuff (it is just small beans in the scheme of life). No word, no answer and just move on.

Now if you want to take the hook then that is for you to decide. It's pretty easy. Just along the lines of if you every need support or someone to hang with 'in this part of town' etc. Enjoyed my time with you, thanks for giving the heads up with my stuff, etc, etc.

Just know this will never be the romantic relationship you are seeking and even in the future if it changes that direction it would be temporary. But having this person in your life can be okay; having a different view of the world helps ground your own. Your choice.

And lastly, I do want to say I hope you are doing well. Relationships are tough, well especially the aftermath. The beauty is we have all these choices. Which ways we want to go and who we want in our lives. We can still be ourselves and still let people in. This is a wonderful growing moment for you; use it in the way you want to grow. Cheers.

[Thegardiner]

Jhkbuzz... .Your reposted comments sum me up exactly. The pain is almost unbearable at times, your words are so true for me.c.Stien, feeling your pain, one day at a time and try to rewrite your story... .

[Grey Kitty]

  What a disappointment. And what a ride you took yourself on... .wondering and hoping what this would be about. So much more than there was in the email!

Letting go of all those hopes and dreams is so very very hard to do, and keeps coming back with a bit more of it that you didn't realize was still there.

My marriage ended on much better terms, so I'm in contact with stbexw, which is moving from civil toward friendly even. Still, I found myself in a situation of weird uncertainty of wondering if I want to read something myself, and in fact, I still haven't opened it to read yet.

My wife is an author, and has finished her second book. This book is a deeply personal book for her, and the subject matter is something that was also deeply personal for me--not quite as much as for her, but still something very significant that started a few years into our marriage and continued for ~20 years. Something that was very much shared, even if it was always 51+% hers, and we both knew it when there were not thoughts of splitting for decades.

Anyhow, I've been kinda conflicted about whether I want to read it or not. Not sure I want those feelings. Not sure that I will feel comfortable about how I'm represented in the book. But also not wanting to hurt her by trying to take her book away from her or keep her from publishing it. Not that I could anyways... .but I could make her feel feel worse about it, and I don't even want to do that. Yes, I'm pretty conflicted!

Anyhow, I did come up with one possible solution that might have helped you with this dilemma, C.Stein, had I read these topics earlier: I sent the draft of the book to a dear trusted friend, one who knows the story of my marriage failing... .thinking that I might ask my friend to read it and let me know if it was safe before I opened it. Knowing that my friend could be trusted to look out for me, but wouldn't personally be triggered by reading any of it. Turns out I'm probably going to read it first... .but I think I'll share it with that friend just so we can talk about it.

[Fr4nz]

Hey C.Stein,

they really cannot take any responsibility for their actions, and the email you received is just the n-th confirmation of this.

Don't scratch your head, they are what they are... .their perception of reality is very distorted and it feeds their need to be always the victim.

[C.Stein]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and support.  It really means a lot to me.  

Unless you already got over the fear, you no longer have to be concerned about what may happen if you ran into her and the emotional stress that comes from that.

Yes, this is true.  The odd thing is, when I was out picking up some stuff earlier I saw a car that looked just like hers with a girl who could have been her if she had gained a lot of face weight ... .say due to a pregnancy.  I can't say for sure it was her but the chances of someone that could have been her, driving that make/model/color of car are very very small.

What a disappointment. And what a ride you took yourself on... .wondering and hoping what this would be about. So much more than there was in the email!

Letting go of all those hopes and dreams is so very very hard to do, and keeps coming back with a bit more of it that you didn't realize was still there.

Yes, I was hoping for and dreading more.  One thing this email has done is make it glaringly obvious how deeply I still love her and how much I miss her.  If only she could have been a raging, hateful, dysfunctional mess most of the time ... .but she wasn't.  Most of the time she was a kind, gentle and loving partner who was never like that and she enriched my life.  It has been incredibly hard to let that go.

It was the occasional BPD behavior that undermined everything for me, pushed me away and when she deceived and lied to me for the most petty reason it shattered me.  I know the most likely reasons why she couldn't fix what she had broken but it still confuses me how she could just give up on something she had wanted so much, even if I know the likely reasons for that too.

It is days like today that bring back the waves of guilt and remorse for the role I played in letting the relationship die.  The intense deep sorrow and sense of loss that I haven't really felt much of for months is back.

I don't really know what I am looking for here, to respond and open the door to continued contact and whatever that leads to or to leave her "dead to me".  The fear of the nightmare that could have happened had we gotten married conflicts so much with the thoughts of how much joy and happiness we could have shared together.  Then the thought of how easily she replaced me and gave herself and her love to another man not only rips me apart but disgusts me as well.  In the past I have been able to mostly get past infidelity but for some reason this time it is different with one exception ... .days like today.  On days like today I feel like I really could put it all behind me and try to make things work with her.

The fact she asked me twice to contact her about the stuff in the email strongly suggests she wants to hear from me.  The email did not come from the address I sent it to so I am uncertain what to make of the Re: subject line.  Perhaps she is trying to find out is I still feel she is dead to me.  Perhaps she is just looking for someone to fix her website that has been down for almost 6 months, which is very very surprising as her website was very important to her both before and during our relationship.  Perhaps she is looking to see if I have put it all behind me, for whatever reason.

As once removed said in the previous thread, this email just generated more questions and provided no answers.

[Zinnia21]

Depending on her personality or disorder you may, one day, get a better description from her of why she did it that way. After 3 cold discards over the last year from my BPD ex, I eventually got genuine explanations and apologies. As we know, they are real and loving people under all the push away behaviours, but when in that dark mode it can be the strangest thing, as though you never knew them or they never knew you, so perplexing.

Only yesterday I managed a conversation in person with my ex, 2 months after our final breakup. I still love him so I feel ill with heartache and longing today. He says he just acted out of fear and in his head he thought I was constantly on the brink of leaving him. And his cold behaviour is purely a self protecting mechanism. He's able to talk about it now he's collapsed into his depression phase, but he knows the mess he makes of it when we're together so still wants to stay clear of the relationship.

There are so many phases and episodes of various behaviour to BPD, no one could ever explain what it's like to someone who hasn't experienced such a relationship themselves. But although she's so cold and disappearing like that, it's really a self protecting mechanism from the imagined abandonment feelings and the constant negative dialogue running through their heads. I've gotta say though, even with the explanations and more positive contact from my ex of late, it doesn't make it any easier to see his good side come back out again. Just makes me miss him and wish he'd go to therapy and stay with me. So I don't know which is worse. But that cold discarded hell is pretty terrible! Been in it a lot and I understand your hopes being dashed once again (as mine are every time I have contact with my BPD!)

Though it can be good to focus on the fact that the cold discard would've been happening over and over, while you're in that feeling, to help you remember why you are lucky to be far from that relationship.

[Zinnia21]

I'll just add that, if you really want more closure sometimes when the dust has settled they come back down to earth and talk and apologise etc Though as I said it doesn't always make it easier, even when they own some of the behaviour. But it has surprised me that when I've reached out to my ex an an honest and calm way that he can talk and respond, so long as he's not still in an angry blaming phase. If you pick your moment right a good conversation can sometimes be possible. But probably not a good relationship as when they get close to us again the triggers of fear come rising up and you are once again demonized. But I know how hard it is to remember that when you're focussed on the love part of it. I too struggle with that inner conflict... .daily

[Grey Kitty]

this email just generated more questions and provided no answers.

Not so much. It did give you one answer, it just isn't one that you like.

She is incapable of coming back to you with some vulnerability, acknowledging that she behaved badly, apologizing, and asking you to take her back.

This is at best a quarter-measure... .not even a full half-measure to get you back. (I've got some experience with half-measures myself. I haven't bit on one yet.)

I think you are worth a partner who can offer you more than that. I'm pretty sure you know that. Your heart probably hasn't caught up to your head though.

[C.Stein]

this email just generated more questions and provided no answers.

Not so much. It did give you one answer, it just isn't one that you like.

She is incapable of coming back to you with some vulnerability, acknowledging that she behaved badly, apologizing, and asking you to take her back.

This is at best a quarter-measure... .not even a full half-measure to get you back. (I've got some experience with half-measures myself. I haven't bit on one yet.)

She is capable of doing those things because I have seen her do it before.  You could be correct though but my gut tells me she is not looking for reconciliation here, although I have obviously misjudged her before.  If she has really moved out of the area reconciliation doesn't seem a likely end game here.  This could be nothing more than an attempt to find out if I hate her and once she finds out I don't that will be the last time I ever hear from her.   

I think you are worth a partner who can offer you more than that. I'm pretty sure you know that. Your heart probably hasn't caught up to your head though.

Yes, my head mostly knows this, my heart not so much.  What my head can't rationalize is the inconsistency between the good and bad.  More good than bad leaves me to question if things couldn't have worked out with more effort on both our parts.  I know it is pointless to wonder these things now but I am only human.

While I am fairly confident she does suffer from BPD, with a possible histrionic comorbidity, what I am not confident about is whether or not she can successfully manage it.  A part of my rational mind thinks she might be able to under the right circumstances and a part says the right circumstances will not always be present. 

That said, the issues surrounding these possible disorders were always there and they kept me in a near constant state of fear and anxiety during our relationship, sometimes worse than others, but I think it was always there on some level.  This is something I could not ignore while I was in a relationship with her, the fear and anxiety, and now knowing the likely link to BPD certainly cannot ignore now.  So why do I still want to believe in her?

I have already constructed a short reply that I probably won't send as it very briefly summarizes what I have gone through for the past 8 months and the impact she has had on me.  Not really sure what purpose that would serve other than making sure she knows how much she hurt me.

[HurtinNW]

C. Stein,

Do you think she can ever know how much she hurt you? My experience with pwBPD is they have a hard time putting themselves in other people's shoes, empathizing truly and deeply. Do you think you have a realistic expectation or hope here?

Both my ex and I are writers. I am a literary novelist, he is a journalist. I see radical empathy as the cornerstone of my craft. I use it it inhabit characters, to feel and see the world through the eyes of others. My ex sees his writing as a way to prove a point. His point.

I don't know your history, but it seems that she had apologized in the past is not the same as truly understanding the depth of her hurt to you.

I worry that hoping for that makes you vulnerable to further hurt from her, if you chose to respond to her.

I think you may be right that she just wants to exonerate herself by taking your temperature. If you don't hate her then she is good to go. That's how my ex is. He took great pride in saying his exes didn't hate him, and he even thought he was friends with many of them. It's a way to avoid accountability.

[once removed]

there is a silver lining to the fact that you dont know her motivations. if you accept that there isnt a guaranteed explanation (easier said than done) of what she intended, you neither torture yourself with reading a coldness into it, nor speculating that theres more to it. it could be either one. it could be both.

this would trigger and confuse the hell out of me. id go back and forth between both. the shock of the coldness, and telling myself maybe its a means of reconnecting. both are a natural, understandable reaction. it may be difficult to see objectively at the moment: you are free to interpret it either way, or somewhere in the middle. as an outside perspective, my sense is there was a certain amount of baiting you for a reaction; directly replying to your email with no mention, and the obvious expectation of a response. that doesnt mean any guarantee either way if you respond (push or pull) and it certainly doesnt mean you have to bite. if you had no emotional involvement (i know, i know  ) you wouldnt read into it, and youd simply gauge whether the stuff is worth getting back.

my advice? as far as actions go, do that 

[BorisAcusio]

this email just generated more questions and provided no answers.

This is at best a quarter-measure... .not even a full half-measure to get you back. (I've got some experience with half-measures myself. I haven't bit on one yet.)

Her reply was brief, informative and non-emotional. There is not much ambiguity in her words that could be intented to leave room for various nterpretations.

[C.Stein]

Do you think she can ever know how much she hurt you? My experience with pwBPD is they have a hard time putting themselves in other people's shoes, empathizing truly and deeply. Do you think you have a realistic expectation or hope here?

Yes, I do believe she can know but she will never understand.  As many have experienced here, "outsiders" who have never been in a relationship with a pwPD or pwBPD don't understand what we all go through, both during and after, but they can intuitively know by what you tell them and what they observe.

To truly put yourself in someones shoes you need to have walked a similar path to the one you are trying to empathize with.  Anything short of that is just imagination.  Granted some are better at imagining than others.

I don't know your history, but it seems that she had apologized in the past is not the same as truly understanding the depth of her hurt to you.

She has apologized in the past for things she did wrong, although when you don't really believe you did anything wrong then what good is the apology?  What I don't remember her apologizing for is hurting me.  Even the last day I saw her she couldn't say it, but instead said I know you are hurting. 

She has not once acknowledged any feelings ever existed between us post trash bin nor has she acknowledged any wrong doing at all.   Myself on the other hand have done both on numerous occasions.   The only regret she gave me the impression she was/is feeling was that our relationship was a waste of time ... .I am a waste of time.   You can certainly imagine how deep that cuts. 

I think you may be right that she just wants to exonerate herself by taking your temperature. If you don't hate her then she is good to go. That's how my ex is. He took great pride in saying his exes didn't hate him, and he even thought he was friends with many of them. It's a way to avoid accountability.

This is a good possibility.  How others perceive her is very important to her.  I remember on several occasions her asking me why I loved her and to tell her all the good things I love about her.  She wanted to me to validate she is a good person worthy of love, possibly because she doesn't feel she is. 

there is a silver lining to the fact that you dont know her motivations. if you accept that there isnt a guaranteed explanation (easier said than done) of what she intended, you neither torture yourself with reading a coldness into it, nor speculating that theres more to it. it could be either one. it could be both.

this would trigger and confuse the hell out of me. id go back and forth between both. the shock of the coldness, and telling myself maybe its a means of reconnecting. both are a natural, understandable reaction. it may be difficult to see objectively at the moment: you are free to interpret it either way, or somewhere in the middle. as an outside perspective, my sense is there was a certain amount of baiting you for a reaction; directly replying to your email with no mention, and the obvious expectation of a response. that doesnt mean any guarantee either way if you respond (push or pull) and it certainly doesnt mean you have to bite. if you had no emotional involvement (i know, i know  ) you wouldnt read into it, and youd simply gauge whether the stuff is worth getting back.

my advice? as far as actions go, do that

My first approach to anything is typically to try and look at it objectively.  If this were from a friend I would see this as a thoughtful and considerate gesture to return things to me that she had good reason to believe I would want back.  That said, my gut says it may not be as simple as that and of course there is history here as well.

That doesn't explain the choice of subject line either.  Now perhaps she just chose to "Re:" that email because she thought it would get my attention and I would be certain to read it.   This would be just another example of her being her, not seeing/thinking about the potential impact/consequences of her choices/actions. 

Now if her intent was to let me know she received the email and has nothing to say in return at all then it is cold-hearted slap in the face that borders on cruel.  That email would be hard for anyone to read let alone a borderline.

Knowing her there is the possibility she wants me to know she read it and this email is her checking to see if I might be receptive to anything she has to say about it.  She may simply not want to take the emotional risk of being rejected.  It is not unreasonable to think she feels that anything she says would be rejected ... .so why bother say anything at all.  This would be the kindest interpretation for the choice of subject. 

There are many different ways to look at this email.  I don't believe it is as it appears on the surface but I do question if it goes much deeper than that.

This move, for whatever reasons, became something she wanted to do as our relationship deteriorated.  She came to see me as an obstacle in her path so she removed me.  Whether it is a move in with the replacement or a "clean slate" in a new city with her housemate which just happens to be closer to where my replacement lives ... .who knows.  Now that she has gotten what she wanted I am no longer an obstacle and she feels there is no risk anymore and is open to communication.  She is literally at a "safe distance" now, she got what she wanted.  This view would be consistent with the reasons I believe she had for deceiving me on several occasions. 

As already mentioned she could be testing my temperature to see if I hate her and/or might be receptive to apologies, be they sincere or not.  She is looking for absolution and a clear conscious, nothing more.  This temperature check could also be to see if I can become another one of those ex's that she can use when she needs something.

It could be a combination of all of them, which I can see as a good possibility.

The least likely scenario is she is looking to recycle and she actually cares about me.  The chance of this is so small it might as well not even be an option here.  I believe once she cuts someone out of her life there is no going back for her.  This is consistent with the impression I got from her that she thinks I am a waste of time and space now ... .a dead end.   I have been painted blacker than black with regard to this as it gives her an excuse for what she did.  If she were interested in recycling she would not have moved.


I know this level of dissection and speculation is not getting me anywhere or helping me move forward.  My choices here are simple ... .do I reply or not.  If I choose to reply then it becomes a bit more complicated as what I say will dictate what happens between us from this point forward.

My advice to myself is the choose what is best for me, that choice that helps me heal and move forward from this incredibly painful and destructive experience.

Good advice for sure ... .but I am unsure what is best for me in this case.  So I guess that is why I am here, to try and figure that out.

[Grey Kitty]

The least likely scenario is she is looking to recycle and she actually cares about me.  The chance of this is so small it might as well not even be an option here. 

I said she wasn't capable of the kind of apology you wanted... .I stand corrected, as she has done things like that in the past. Capable or not, she chose not to do so. I'd suggest that the "best" interpretation would be that she's too waifish to admit to it... .

My choices here are simple ... .do I reply or not.  If I choose to reply then it becomes a bit more complicated as what I say will dictate what happens between us from this point forward.

I think the question of what you want comes ahead of the question of what to say (if anything)

Do you want to recycle? [Probably not, and she's probably not interested]

Do you want to become close friends with her someday?

Do you want her as a distant friend / acquaintance?

Do you want to be civil with her should you ever encounter her again?

Do you want her out of your life?

Fill in your own blank... .maybe several possibilities are acceptable, but some preferable to others.

Once you answer this, you will know what you want to communicate to her in an email, if anything.