is silent treatment indifference or hate?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

just wondering the above

still trying to get my head around the confusion in my mind and emotions

indifference is supposed to mean someone doesn't love you whereas hate indicates love -but then if someone was indifferent to you surely they wouldn't bother reaching out -so how has he got from "pinnacle of love" to nothing -replacement probably helps -but still cant get my head round his choice who is totally anti what he finds attractive -if they always come back -why hasn't he? And why would they after a period of indifference? -is this to do with the Bowlby attachment theory stuff? And if he is in detached protector mode why would he go out with someone else?

isn't silent treatment a planned nasty behavior

Also why inflict on me his deepest fear of abandonment?

I guess I'm confused as to whether he may love me still or not? Unsure why this feels important for me to know

He just ended things eventually with full on silent treatment -with refusal of heart to heart -therefore denying our friendship also -this hurts as well -lovers can remain angry but friends tend to reach out -we were both -but now nothing

[cherryblossom]

just wondering the above

still trying to get my head around the confusion in my mind and emotions

indifference is supposed to mean someone doesn't love you whereas hate indicates love -but then if someone was indifferent to you surely they wouldn't bother reaching out -so how has he got from "pinnacle of love" to nothing -replacement probably helps -but still cant get my head round his choice who is totally anti what he finds attractive -if they always come back -why hasn't he? And why would they after a period of indifference? -is this to do with the Bowlby attachment theory stuff? And if he is in detached protector mode why would he go out with someone else?

isn't silent treatment a planned nasty behavior

Also why inflict on me his deepest fear of abandonment?

I guess I'm confused as to whether he may love me still or not? Unsure why this feels important for me to know

He just ended things eventually with full on silent treatment -with refusal of heart to heart -therefore denying our friendship also -this hurts as well -lovers can remain angry but friends tend to reach out -we were both -but now nothing

[SoMadSoSad]

Did you guys have a 1 on 1 have to face meeting after the discard?

[pfeiffj1]

Sorry u have to go thru this.  U seem deeply wounded.  There is no logic in dealing with someone who has BPD.  A crazy mind is irrational and unpredictable.  Seems painful, but it is in you best long term interest if he never comes back.

[Meili]

You may never know if it's ST, if it's out of indifference, or if it's out of hate. There's really no reason to dwell on it. We know the fact is that he's not communicating with you. That's all that you really need to know right now. If you don't believe me, ask yourself what difference it makes? Would your life be any different either way? He would still be silent no matter which it is.

[cherryblossom]

no

this is what sucks I cannot explain just how messy and bitty it was at end - he just spiralled out of control with drink and self harm - I had to flee home -he just wouldn't speak to me sober from then on-one point in this time- he said he thought he was making serious mistake with ending our relationship and wanted to give up drinking -I asked that he look into support and contact me back with what he found -he rang me drunk when he was meant to be saving our relationship and seeking help-had a few more cycles of this -until I said I couldn't be with him unless he got help for drink and BPD. I suggested we didn't speak for 6 weeks then talk -he agreed with this but then never contacted me (apart from bday) then there was issue of deposit money he owed me so had to communicate about that and he refused to communicate about anything else. He hasn't reached out. He did not tell me he was with someone else -I got that from his sister. He refused to communicate with me about that as well.

we did come face to face at a mutual friend bday party end of January after 7 weeks n/c -his bday was 12th Jan -I didn't text or ring him -he tried to ring but i had phone on silent and didn't answer it -the face to face meeting did not go well as I was upset he had not reached out -he said he did on his bday -he was disheveled looking -kept saying he was evil -the universe is infinite and will implode -why cant i just speak to him? -denying my right to be hurt at his behavior. He made hurtful remarks about me in front of friends -he said to our friends who are a couple "she must be really special that is why you have stayed together so long" but then told another friend he would kill him if he tried it on with me. He did apologise to me at the end of the night. I contacted his sister to let her know how worried I was about him -I contacted him to ask him to seek help -he said that is none of your concern in a reply -and onto more silent treatment interspersed with the cold messages about deposit.

[Meili]

That all sounds perfectly horrible. It sounds like you're suffering a lot from his treatment of you and your not being able to communicate with him. I know that, for me, not being allowed to express myself to someone when I want can be frustrating. Which brings me to this:

-denying my right to be hurt at his behavior.

Denying your right to be hurt, or denying you access to express that hurt to him?

[cherryblossom]

[/quote]
Denying your right to be hurt, or denying you access to express that hurt to him?[/quote]
both really he just wanted me to act like nothing had happened and I've just had a lightbulb moment thanks! -as he always felt denied access to express his hurt to his father -or felt his father wasn't hearing him properly -I know nons can get counter transference -in fact i feel he has treated me in all the vile ways he hated his father treating his mother -bizarre

[Meili]

Depersonalizing all of this does make it a bit easier. Remember that it isn't really about you seems to take some of the sting out of it. At least it has for me.

[cherryblossom]

well... .he doesn't want to "relate " to me anymore he clearly gave up on that and himself -i am suffering today -bad day -lots of bad days since my ex client died-

yes he's unwell, unpredictable -why did i give my heart to him? he's not capable of giving me a nurturing and protective environment -he doesn't want to provide that for himself

i feel he is doomed -i find that very depressing as i love him -even though i shouldn't after what he treated me like at end - i just do have empathy for him as know how damaging his childhood was and mine -i thought we were going to rise above it together - he always greatly admired me for what I had achieved -even at end he said I person he respected most in the world -yet treated me with no respect!

therapist not back for 2 weeks

il prob b on this site a lot more in these weeks

need all support i can at this time

[HurtinNW]

As to why those with BPD traits give silent treatments, I think it goes to their inability to regulate their own emotions, and act accordingly. Remember, feelings = facts for many of them. For my ex, he would be overcome with emotions, I think fear of intimacy, and so he would rage, and then to explain it all to himself, retreat into justifying his behavior by shutting me out.

I see silent treatments as a very immature way to handle emotions. There can be an element of a kid taking their ball from the playground and storming home. But underneath it is actually a lot of unacknowledged fear and anger. I know under my ex's shell of rage and rejection is actually a hurting little boy. I cannot help that little boy. My ex has to be the one to contact him, bring him out and get him help.

A person who is not mature enough to communicate will use a silent treatment or ghosting to avoid taking accountability, such as if they found another partner and lack the integrity to tell you.

Also why inflict on me his deepest fear of abandonment?

I've wondered that a lot about my ex, too. There is a lot of projection with this disorder. Remember, these are often people with impaired empathy. He's probably not thinking about your feelings. That's how he denies you the right to be hurt and angry. He's caught up in his own emotions, like the kid storming off the playground.

It's normal to wonder if our exes loved us or not. Perhaps the answer is they loved us as much as they were capable. Then the question turns to us: is that the kind of love we want? That we are worth?

If we radically accept them for who they are, we can start to move forward with our lives. Cherry Blossom, do you think you can radically accept that this is your ex: disheveled, selfish, self-pitying, saying hurtful things in front of others, giving you the silent treatment? And if you accept that, what kind of future would you like, presumably without him in it?

[cherryblossom]

Depersonalizing all of this does make it a bit easier. Remember that it isn't really about you seems to take some of the sting out of it. At least it has for me.

Can you explain -I though we had to be aware of both our parts in the relationship?

What is it about then?

I was a trigger somehow surely?

[Meili]

Yes, being aware of both parts in the r/s is good.

But, their part, the way that they treat us isn't about us, it's about them.

From what I understand, they start to feel close and intimate with us, they get scared, they lash out at us so that they can blame us rather than process their own feelings.

Yes, we trigger something within them.

[cherryblossom]

its upsetting as take away the disheveled bit and that is how my mum treated me and sis growing up 

he knew about that and was so kind and caring to me a lot of time (so was my mum) He had a lot of empathy for me -but then it has ended like this

[Meili]

You may want to explore how your mum treated you compared to how he's treated you?

[cherryblossom]

I think it is about us to a point as we allow it so they push it -I think they think that to love is weak or makes them vulnerable so when they sense we love and try to understand their difficult behaviors they push us more and more to see how desperate we are for their love or maybe to test our strength? Maybe to test their strength?

[SoMadSoSad]

I think it is about us to a point as we allow it so they push it -I think they think that to love is weak or makes them vulnerable so when they sense we love and try to understand their difficult behaviors they push us more and more to see how desperate we are for their love or maybe to test our strength? Maybe to test their strength?

I think they are just protecting themselves from pain.

[cherryblossom]

thanks for the different insights

I guess I'm back to wondering if he is a psychopath

I'm trying to understand the difference between BPD behavior and abuse

is there a difference?

[cherryblossom]

do you mean pain from the fear of rejection?

why is the behavior so extreme? i guess maybe cos the feelings are so extreme?

[Meili]

What SMSS said.

Plus, when they push, once hooked, we can become desperate. So, we pull. The can see our vulnerabilities and weaknesses. This puts them in control. For some, like my x, it is a test of our love. How much will we give and endure? The second that the pushback happens the abandonment issues are triggered.

Our strength can be their kryptonite. It can cause them to run scared. It really depends on their triggers though. Confusing, huh? At least we don't have to live in their minds!

Any unwanted treatment that doesn't cease immediately when the perpetrator is told/asked to stop is abuse as far as I'm concerned.

The behavior is only as extreme as they need it to be to silence their own fears.

[Lilyroze]

Geez Cherryblossom,

Feel like I could have wrote most of this about the hurt and rejection of silent treatment. Didn't see yours till wrote mine... .sigh. Hugs and sorry you are going through this. It is horrible and hurtful.

See I should change my avi maybe... . when finally chose didn't know you had one like.

Hope you feel better soon.

[seenr]

I just want to add another angle here.

I used silent treatment with my ex. I did so as I constantly was put in a position where I'd be given a choice and each option was wrong. I'd be raged at, violence was a possibility, I was scared.

I had to (for a long period) say that I would not communicate if this behaviour occurred. It set s boundary and helped. But long term it was worse than talking as it was taken to mean a lack of respect.

I would caution against using this as part of BPD as when your choices are leave and be accused of abandoning her, stay silent and be accused of being passive aggressive or talk & have something broken over your head, it focuses the mind.

[cherryblossom]

thanks for ur replies

lilyroze great minds hey!

seenr i would never be violent to him but i was angry with him at time of split as so upset with his behavior and lack of commitment to change - i think he was/is with himself too so i can see how silent treatment could b useful strategy for him -but I'm a reasonable person and he knows that so to drag it for so so long with no reaching out after all we went thru and felt about each other and we got on well with each other family members / had mutual friends etc... .is just plain cruel and torturous and il never understand why he has been so cruel to me -my ability to think about another relationship destroyed - we were genuinely friends and that's what hurts the most and i will not reach out as it is not my place-he does not care what pain im in -how does he know if im still alive? he thinks nothing of me and it is so painful

i feel like he is trying to inflict his pain on me why am i allowing it still?

[cherryblossom]

i cant allow him to destroy me i got too far without being destroyed and the man i truly loved the most turned out to be the greatest foe

[cherryblossom]

im terrified im done over this

[Meili]

im terrified im done over this

Whatcha mean?

[cherryblossom]

im terrified i wont come thru it, i'll live rest of my life a depressed bitter mess

[cherryblossom]

im v low today

hormonal

work tough atm

no fixed abode

lots of lovely social things going on god knows where id b without those but not really able to properly appreciate anything right now

[Meili]

Of course you'll get through it. You don't really have any other option!

I know the low feeling all too well though. The social gatherings will help with that in time. The hormonal and work stuff will change too.

That leaves the abode. That is a fixable problem. Ya just need to develop a plan. Can you do that?

[Hopefulgirl]

Im so sorry you are going through this Cherryblossom.

I remember telling my exBPD one time that the worst emotional abuse that could ever be done to me is to be given the silent treatment. For my personality, its what damaged me the most. I was recounting a story about a friend from college who had done that to me, for no reason. I told him this long before I discovered he had BPD. So when the long silent treatments eventually came from him it felt like "he knows this is damaging me and hes doing it anyway".  Its like a switch is turned off in their head. They have used this as a coping mechanism probably for along time, to several people.

Remember spending a wonderful long weekend with him and never felt so much love and caring from him. Said he was thankful for me and how ive stuck by him through his ups and downs. About four days later I called and left message for him that I was getting tested for cancer and I was waiting for results and he said texted back he was sorry to hear that and he probably couldnt see me on Valentines weekend. Then silent treatment for three weeks. Whats scary is that when I finally got results back I did not have cancer I cried and cried, because my friend had decided he was so indifferent to me he couldnt even ask what the test results were. 

  Actually, silent treatment should be seen as emotional abuse.  If someone does it for sudden indifference its infantile and mean. If a grownup who is close to you does it out of anger or "hate" then all you can do is wait for it to subside. Any more words from your end just throw fuel on the fire. I cant even imagine being married to someone who acts like that every time you have a disagreement.

I hope things get better for you. When I went through this I cried everywhere (the gym, grocery store,in the car). Was probably hormonal too which certainly didnt help. Friends and family worried about me incessantly. When I eventually heard from him he acted like he had absolutely no clue as to why his behavior had affected me so. This kind of behavior when on with him many times after that.

[hurting300]

Do you really want to know what it is? I will tell you. It's typical Bpd immaturity. They are mad. They think you did something wrong so they run and pout. Please, don't let his actions injure you! This is a sign YOU are to strong for him. He is a paper tigar with a big roar. Accept his Silence and give silence in return. You will never know what's behind his actions because he probably doesn't even know. All you should know is he has zero conflict resolution skills and he has an arrested development.