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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Have been utterly stupid  (Read 588 times)
Pencil sketch
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« on: February 18, 2018, 03:38:04 AM »

Well, I foolishly became embroiled again. On and off sporadic contact, mainly her, attacking, and withdrawing.
This is so bloody hard, all my resolutions to ignore her, evaporated.
I see the logic, what she is doing, why is it so hard to follow through?
I am a mess again.
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 09:06:01 AM »

This is so bloody hard, all my resolutions to ignore her, evaporated.
I see the logic, what she is doing, why is it so hard to follow through?

Excerpt
“Fall down seven times, get up eight.”— Japanese Proverb

Don't be hard on yourself Pencil sketch, can you tell us a little bit more about what happened. A pwBPD will try to roll right over and I completely understand how some moments are very challenging with an ex pwBPD. It helps to ask your support group here for help when you feel weak. 
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 10:49:14 AM »

It's tough. We all have done this at one time or another, believe me.

I learned in January that sharing anything going on with me just stokes the fire again and leads to some sort of discard. Part of me was hoping for the connection, but it's not there. I can't do that. I have to keep it all business.

As my younger one said, ultimately it's all about him and how he looks to others.
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 11:08:55 AM »

Well, I foolishly became embroiled again. On and off sporadic contact, mainly her, attacking, and withdrawing.
This is so bloody hard, all my resolutions to ignore her, evaporated.
I see the logic, what she is doing, why is it so hard to follow through?
I am a mess again.

I’m curious why you engaged? Was it because you were baited by comments and argued or because you wanted a connection? Just curious what was driving your actions?
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 11:57:07 AM »

I'm sorry you're having a hard time. Luckily, you're not alone.

When you feel ready to talk it out, let us know.


-Speck
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 12:13:24 PM »

Also what is her logic? What is she trying to do?
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 01:40:11 PM »

Well, I foolishly became embroiled again. On and off sporadic contact, mainly her, attacking, and withdrawing.
This is so bloody hard, all my resolutions to ignore her, evaporated.
I see the logic, what she is doing, why is it so hard to follow through?
I am a mess again.

Because maybe you still think you love her. Maybe you think you can help her. I know for myself, the more I see the craziness , the more I realize it can't work. Protect yourself brother. Focus on healing yourself and the NC thing is sound advice imo for most people.
For me, I see that she is trying to hurt me. It seems she is constantly tryi g to justify herself and her actions. It seems that is part of her delusions in my case. Constantly telling herself to believe the lies she makes up in her mind. I am where you are, I find the clarity in what is happening and tell myself that it will never change on her end. Unless she has some kind of self realization. Which is highly doubtful.
I can only heal myself.
 I'm no expert though. Still learning.
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 05:23:09 PM »

Thank you so much for your replies, I was expecting a bollocking.
Long story short, she changed her number and came back 8 weeks later, full of spite and vitrol, back to square one. She hates me, doesn't want anything to do with me, refused to see me. I suppose, my curiosity got the better of me, so I asked why, if she felt that way, why bother to waste time telling me, no answer, just that she is fed up with me contacting her, even though she came back.
This weekend she is supporting a friend, who's bother tragically died, and she wants to be left alone, I just sent her a short message, saying how sorry I was, and has been communicating all weekend, the usual spite, and accusing me, of not letting her allowed to greive.
I guess, I just want to hear something positive, to make all this worth while.
I still love her, but hang around and listen to her abuse, and i don't know why.
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 09:08:39 PM »

Thank you so much for your replies, I was expecting a bollocking.

Ha... .Never!

Man, you're really having a tough time. I'm sorry you're in pain like this. It sucks.

Excerpt
I still love her, but hang around and listen to her abuse, and i don't know why.

Probably, because you love her just like you said, but perhaps more than you love yourself right now. I've been there, friend.  This time will be different. This time she'll see how much I love her and will appreciate it.  This time, she'll not treat me like a discarded shoe. But, the thing is, until your ex gets treatment, there will be no different next time. This kind of thinking has gotten me into trouble and has broken my heart over and over in my relationship with my uBPDw. Since discovering bpdfamily, I've learned that I must stop the Next Time Two Step, and just focus on what I'm doing, how I'm feeling, how I'm treating others, etc. and lovingly detach from someone who hurts me.

I'm learning how to grow through what I go through... .

I know you're hurting.  I'm glad you reached out.  Keep doing so if it helps.


-Speck



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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 01:16:08 AM »

Thanks speck, and you are absolutely right, it's a behaviour which is very hard to reprogram, this condition pervades so many areas of our lives, they should rename it, the mirroring condition
She is playing me, I know that much, sent her a final, very clear message yesterday, telling her to leave me alone, and given that she thinks I am the devil incarnate, it should be easy For her.
I felt so low, I was desperate to try to make her see, just how hard this is.
I heard nothing all day, and felt a sense of calm, and hope, that she finally understood, and would leave me alone.
Barrage of drunken messages last night.
Resulting in her telling me, I am invading her privacy, it's unwelcome, and she is ending it.
I haven't responded.
Why do they always want the last word?
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 02:03:49 AM »

Why do they always want the last word?

Because when stressed, they behave like hurt children.  Although your ex may be 35 years-old (or 45 years-old... .I dunno), she lacks the ability to regulate her impulsivity and must lash out and wound you before you wound her.  That's what the Last Word game is all about anyway when you see 5 year-olds do it! It's just Lizard Brain self-protective behavior. She never attained mastery of impulse control in the Executive Functioning of her brain, so her frustrations with your healthy boundary-setting come out sideways. Alchohol doesn't help.

Again, I'm sorry you're being subjected to her stuff right now.  Never fun.

Keep working those boundaries... .


-Speck
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 02:42:38 AM »

It's not until you actually read what you have learnt about the condition, from someone who has experienced it, that it sinks in, and it is like dealing with a child.
Her last words were, be happy, this is what you have always wanted, a new life, go and live it.
Always leave, but not quite.
Thanks mate
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 06:29:24 AM »

Don´t be hard on yourself man!

When the one you love changes so much and starts acting this way is just human to be confused, and to try to talk with the person you fell in love with. There´s nothing wrong about you with all that. It´s just a human being trying to understand somebody who won´t act exactly as a common human being.
I was months expecting my ex to contact me. I couldn´t believe that she suddenly left ant started acting really mean with me when we had nothing but love, support, good times... .during more than a year. But that´s the way they act, feel and understad the world.

Just keep going, reading and sharing your experiences and feelings. Here you´ll be supported!
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 09:23:59 AM »

I am trying very hard to keep all this in mind. Breaking up is bad enough, but dealing with the aftershocks is a nightmare.
That's what is so painful, it's the spite and vitrol, that is replacing the love.
Why can't they just stay away, and it's a hollow feeling, coming back after two months absence, just to reinforce how much they hate you.
Just have to keep strong, I wish I had never met her.
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*beep beep!*


« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 10:13:02 AM »

I am trying very hard to keep all this in mind. Breaking up is bad enough, but dealing with the aftershocks is a nightmare.
That's what is so painful, it's the spite and vitrol, that is replacing the love.
Why can't they just stay away, and it's a hollow feeling, coming back after two months absence, just to reinforce how much they hate you.
Just have to keep strong, I wish I had never met her.

Dude, don't be too hard on yourself. Take as much time as you need. If you are indeed dealing with a person displaying many markers of BPD, you wont be dealing with a normal break up. You are also going through the stages of grief and loss. To compound on that, you have to deal with this massive confusion of things having been too good to be true, thinking of a future together perhaps... .only to have it broken and shattered in an instant.

Don't get sucked into the negativity. Most likely pencil sketch, that might be how she feels about herself, and she might be "projecting" her feelings of negativity onto you. My uBPDexGF often said that about herself, she didn't like herself to the point where she seem like she "hated" herself and was always self deprecating and self-punishing. I say this with much kindness, and i'll say it to you as i say it to myself. It isn't so much about you, their behaviour is more about them.

cheers,
spero
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 10:52:55 AM »

It isn't so much about you, their behaviour is more about them.

Spero makes an astute observation, here. Most likely, it's hard-won wisdom as well.

Why can't our pwBPD stay away? Because they cannot regulate their emotional impulses and do not observe/respect their own boundaries much less the boundaries of others. They conduct themselves much like children, and Lord knows, children are extremely self-absorbed and impulsive! As a society, we allow children to behave in this manner, and luckily, most children grow out of this stage.  Without help, people who suffer from BPD do not.

Hang in there, Pencil Sketch.


-Speck
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 11:15:36 AM »

Thanks for your support, it's hard not to take it all personally, the more you love someone, you know how to hurt them, in the most destructive way.
I, like many on here, hate bad feeling, and in reality, my continued communication with her, I am trying to find some positive affermations, that it wasn't all bad, but have realised, that is beyond their logic.
I also felt, that my diagnoses of her, may have been a little outlandish, and used it as a way to blame everything onto her, I haven't been a saint, but the more I experience her behaviour, the more I see how damaged she is.
It just feels, I am climbing up a slippery mountain backwards, but now, I have to turn around, sod the mountain, and slide down on my arse.
I have turned a corner today, instead of half hoping she will get back to me, I now wish she won't.
I kept a message I sent, and her response, in moments of weekends, I will read it.
I would hate, to feel like that, if they are conscious of it or not, it's staggering a mind can think like that.
Day by day, hour by hour if need be.
I say it often, but this forum is my life saver, and place of peace.
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*beep beep!*


« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 11:56:13 AM »

Thanks for your support, it's hard not to take it all personally, the more you love someone, you know how to hurt them, in the most destructive way.
I, like many on here, hate bad feeling, and in reality, my continued communication with her, I am trying to find some positive affermations, that it wasn't all bad, but have realised, that is beyond their logic.

I think Pencil, it is one thing to know how to hurt someone and know that you have such capability and propensity to do so, than to be ignorant. It is for me at least, better to know what i am capable of doing but yet restrain from doing so. It is perhaps a form of balance, one may fear what they are capable of doing, others just go out of control with whatever power their wield.

I too persisted in communicating for sometime, but i realised, staying doesn't help my uBPDexGF, in fact I may continue to be part of the dysfunction and empowering of her misbehaviour. First, i had to stop contributing to the problem of enabling unhealthy behaviours whether it was intentional or unintentional. I've bought books, read "When hope is not enough", searched the depths of the internet to find out what the hell was going on. I had to constantly validate her feelings, and it was just tiring for me, i was giving... .and i was being a source of supply. Don't get me wrong, my uBPDexGF also displayed some NPD traits. She set me up and failed me before i could even sit for her "tests" so to speak.

Perhaps the sooner, you realise that you didn't cause the issue, neither can you change or cure it. It will be more liberating and comforting.

Excerpt
I also felt, that my diagnoses of her, may have been a little outlandish, and used it as a way to blame everything onto her, I haven't been a saint, but the more I experience her behaviour, the more I see how damaged she is.
It just feels, I am climbing up a slippery mountain backwards, but now, I have to turn around, sod the mountain, and slide down on my arse.

First, i thought my uBPDexGF was having an avoidant kind of personality, she would immediate detach and become cold suddenly in her words and texts. But the more I took a step back, the rabbit hole went deeper. I don't think anyone on this forum, wants to "blame" per se. But understanding the various stages of grief and loss, you will experience all the various emotions, bargaining... the what ifs, the anger, the betrayal, the withdrawal and it will take time.

I write this comment not to put ourselves in a better position, but Pencil, you have the capacity to process your hurts and your pains. Unfortunately, people with BPD as far as i've read and researched, don't process pain and loss the way you and I do. That, Pencil is probably a greater hell and pit to be in. These overwhelming emotions get shoved and while i know my ex looks okay on the surface, I can tell you without a doubt, one day when they can't keep it in anymore, they will have a melt down and for some, in that moment of dysregulated emotions infact, take their lives.

Pencil, you on the other hand have much greater capacity and processing to move on and a chance for healing to take place. But, for people who suffer from BPD, sometimes they may never change, ( as much as i hope they would seek help, get treatment and really want to improve their own lives ). It is gonna take tremendous effort for the person to first recognise that they have an "issue" and they may be the very ones that erect their own iron fortress and imprisoned themselves in it. I don't believe that they do this for attention, most of their motivations as i've observed with my ex, was to reduce the pain she felt inside. Such deep levels of pain, that they would harm themselves physically to sooth the emotional. I understand it intellectually, i find it beyond my paradigm to want to inflict injury on myself. But for my ex at least, it soothed the deep pain she was feeling.


Excerpt
I have turned a corner today, instead of half hoping she will get back to me, I now wish she won't.
I kept a message I sent, and her response, in moments of weekends, I will read it.
I would hate, to feel like that, if they are conscious of it or not, it's staggering a mind can think like that.
Day by day, hour by hour if need be.
I say it often, but this forum is my life saver, and place of peace.

One step at a time bud, its gonna be rough and bumpy start, but you'll get out of it. You and i know very much on a logical level and intellectual level that re engaging will not be beneficial for either party. One thing i do know pencil, people with BPD do understand this word... it is called "Consequences." Your stance of NC will send the strongest message of what you would deem acceptable and what isn't. Course i missed her, course i tried, i tried hard... damn hard. But you know dude, in the end, it might not even matter. Don't beat yourself up too much. I have my lapses, i still check on her now and then but heck, i maintain my NC at all costs. Don't respond or react, or you'll risk being recycled, into the "dance".

Stay strong and stay cool.

Spero.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »

I have turned a corner today, instead of half hoping she will get back to me, I now wish she won't.

Bravo. Take your little victory and put it on the mantle. When you have enough of those, in time, you'll need a brand new mantle to hold the spoils! With enough time and personal victories, you can find peace. So... .start claiming them for yourself.

Excerpt
I kept a message I sent, and her response, in moments of weakness, I will read it.

Whatever it takes to honor YOU, do it.

Excerpt
Day by day, hour by hour if need be.

That's right!

Excerpt
I say it often, but this forum is my life saver, and place of peace.

I am glad you are here. I know what you mean. I, too, benefit every day by tuning in to the wisdom, logic, support, and camaraderie floating around these halls.  And every day, I get a little bit stronger.

Posting on other people's threads helps me immensely as well. So, if anyone has got some hard-won wisdom to offer someone, maybe a pitfall to avoid, feel free to do so! We all can help one another while helping ourselves.


-Speck
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 06:10:05 AM »

She sent a message early this morning.
'I don't love you or hate You, I don't like you but don't hate you'
Very ambiguous for a BPD.
Haven't responded.
Standing strong.
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:52 AM »


Why do they always want the last word?


Sorry to hear about this. :-( I think the "always wanting the last word" thing is a childish defense mechanism rooted in the abandonment fears. You told her in your message "Leave me alone." She fired back with angry drunken texts, accused you of invading her privacy, then said "I'm ending it!"

But you'd already said "Leave me alone."

It's their way of not being dumped... .even though thay have already been told to "eff off".

Non: "Leave me alone."

BPD: "No... .YOU leave ME alone!"

It's a flimsy grasp at self-soothing, and convincing themselves that you didn't detach because they are impossible to get along with, but that they chose to detach because YOU are.

She may wait for you to come back and try to talk to her again so she can ignore you and feel superior. Sometimes giving the other person the last word with no attempt at a retort is the best thing you can do. Then she may think, "But why did you LET me disappear?"

In essence... .you are kind of getting the last word by saying nothing. In a very quiet but powerful way. ;-)

***EDIT*** - I didn't realize there was a whole page of replies on this topic, because I accidentally skipped a page. :-( Sorry for repetitive subject matter.
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 06:49:27 AM »

Thanks basement dweller. This has been the basis for most of our conversations, you hang up, no you hang up, and infinitum.
I think it's more confusing, because she ended It, and has made it clear, we are going nowhere, pointed out all my flaws (again) and then said, I don't want anything more to do with you, if I could change my number, I would.
She has left me alone today, which I have to say, I am relieved about, I know it sounds crazy after everything we have been through, I just miss her, which is why all this is so damn  hard.
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 06:52:20 AM »

She sent a message early this morning.
'I don't love you or hate You, I don't like you but don't hate you'
Very ambiguous for a BPD.
Haven't responded.
Standing strong.

Not ambiguous, me thinks: She may be trying to say that she's indifferent to you, which she's probably read/heard is worse than to be regarded as either loved or hated. Whatever she means, you didn't respond to it, therefore, you have another little victory to place upon the mantle. Yay!

Hang tough!


-Speck
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 07:06:53 AM »

I agree with Speck - every time you don't give in to the push/pull drama is a victory for you. And what you said about missing her is totally understandable. It is completely possible, even quite common to still love and miss a person even though they drive you insane and can be totally toxic.
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Encourage Mint


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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 08:00:39 AM »

I suppose, my curiosity got the better of me, so I asked why, if she felt that way

Ah, the self-inflicted kiss of death! Oh, man, do I remember that dynamic like it was yesterday. My STBx would play this game where she'd seem to be having some sort of generic conflict; I'd ask her what's wrong; then she'd unload on me about me. Somehow the smallest thing that could have happened while I wasn't even there for it she'd pin on me and the worst case scenario as to why I wasn't there for it and to resolve it for her.

Basically, her attacks of me, after I gave her the bat to beat me over the head with by asking what's wrong, ran the gamut from I don't like conflict (which I don't) and that's why I left the house to mow the lawn (as if I knew she was going to rage at whomever or was having a hard time with something) and didn't want to deal with it, to me undermining her parenting to I saw how you looked at that waitress last night to... .it was endless.

Now I just change the subject whenever she has the appearance of being unhappy or angry or whatever. I know now it's all an act for attention and a set up for her to poop on me. I DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT! I do not care to engage her that way anymore.

Why do they always want the last word?


Because it's never about them taking in any information from us but doling it out to teach us lessons.

May I ask why you don't block her at least until you're on more solid footing with all this?

J
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2018, 12:57:37 PM »

She sent a message early this morning.
'I don't love you or hate You, I don't like you but don't hate you'
Very ambiguous for a BPD.
Haven't responded.
Standing strong.

BPD doesn’t define a person I think that it just means that you haven’t fallen out with her. Regardless, even if she says that you haven’t fallen out and she doesn’t see how unhealthy and painful her behaviours are it’s up to you to self protect which you are doing now. Stay strong brother.
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2018, 01:32:09 PM »

She sent a message early this morning.
'I don't love you or hate You, I don't like you but don't hate you'
Very ambiguous for a BPD.
Haven't responded.
Standing strong.

I liked the interpretation that it might be an attempt to show indifference. But who knows. I believe that nothing they say can be anaylyzed because it often doesn’t mean anything. I think if anything it’s all just trying to get to you. I wouldn’t analyze the words in the same way you would analyze others words. All you can analyze are the inconsistencies and the behaviors.
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2018, 08:03:23 AM »

Pencil,

From reading your posts, I’m guessing you haven’t actually blocked her yet.  I was in your situation until 8 days ago.  I wouldn’t initiate texts (oh, how I wanted to), but I would anxiously look at my phone hoping for some sort of contact from her.

And I got them.  Unfortunately for me, they were never nasty.  Quite the opposite.  She left me still “in love with” me but we just couldn’t work it out.  Too many differences in values and lifestyles, too many drunken rages, too little consistent periods of calm.

After my last re-engagement with her (check out my story if interested), I finally, finally hit the bottom and decided to go full NC and block her.  I never had done that before.  Now a week later I feel the shackles lifting from me day by day.

I am not hostage to my phone anymore.  It was a HUGE step for me.  My thinking is simple:  if she wants to see me, she knows where I live.  So it’s obvious it’s finally over and I am moving on.

I hope and pray you can get to that point, too.  Maybe try blocking her for two days and see how you feel.  You can always undo it.  It’s very freeing.

Stay strong.

Stixx
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enlighten me
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2018, 08:47:09 AM »

Hi pencil sketch
Let them have the last word. She accusses you of harrassing her and not giving her space so give her space. I guarentee she'll be the one to contact you.

Use the time to balance the books and see how much profit there is to having this person in your life.
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Pencil sketch
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2018, 10:52:12 AM »

Thanks guys, I have decided to change my number, she refuses to, and I just want this nightmare to end, I still have access to her number, so will be a good lesson in self control, she maintains I am harassing her, in my quest to find out what is going on, and has admitted she came back for revenge.
I will be the bigger person, and give her what she wants, I can't be a slave to my phone anymore.
I now realise, from previous posts, that my desire to connect, is delaying the grieving process, and that can't be any worse than the spite and hatred she is throwing at me now.
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