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Author Topic: Exiting a 5 year relationship with a diagnosed BPD  (Read 1262 times)
Schlaff

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Relationship status: Breaking up
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« on: August 17, 2020, 01:06:07 AM »

First post here. I’ve browsed a lot of threads here and elsewhere, as well as some of the articles. It’s kind of scary how dead on some of the stuff is, but I also note differences, and just wanted to discuss/vent.

Out relationship started out as just hanging out, having fun. Mostly alcohol and sex, but that progressed into hanging out more. I’m also the type to have a single sexual partner regardless of the seriousness of the relationship, so that kinda sped things up.

Things were good for a short while. Honestly I don’t think this phase is unique to BPD, the first bit of any relationship I’ve been in has been great. Anyways, things followed what seems to be a common trend. She started lashing out at me for minuscule things. I brushed them off for various reasons/rationales. It got worse and worse.

The first break up happened when she was trashing our house (for a reason I can’t seem to recall even!), and I and our roommate (my cousin and best friend) were trying to intervene, calm her down. This culminated in her striking him in the face.

At this point, I’d decided we are gonna take a “break”. I think they are stupid and don’t work, but I don’t wanna outright leave her yet, right? I want to stay and make sure she gets help. I get her to consent to therapy. I go with her. I offer all the support I can, she shows improvement. (Diagnosis BPD, among other things)

From here there’s good times and bad, which slowly but surely devolves into her stopping therapy and the exercises that helped, and bad times being every other day. Big fights over the same nonsense. Anger that’s far past remotely merited, etc.

The latest fight, I simply... broke. All the things I’ve read, but thought “no, this is different” or “I can still help her”, finally hit me that... it’s not different. I can’t help her. Like literally cannot, even if I wanted to, which I’m not sure about either.

I love her. Once I say those words to someone it’s always gonna be there in some form. Could go without saying that that is what’s making this hard now. It’s just like so many stories I’ve read. Tonight I told her we are done, it’s over. I must’ve said it 100 times (I’m used to saying things 100 times).  She went from frantically begging me not to do it, to simply denying it. “No, I’m sorry, but we aren’t breaking up. We aren’t meant to be apart” etc.

To complicate it more? We live together, and work together. Most of our friends are shared, largely because she has few friends outside of things like work. Her toxicity makes it tough. Her one best friend I suspect is also BPD. They feed off each other and often go months without talking.

Anyways, now. I’m stuck between seeing that full NC is the right call. But her pleas that she won’t make it without me (not the first suicidal threat), her insistence that I’m part of her getting better, all that? I can rationally see how they are likely all false, empty... But I care about her. I legit forgive her. I just can’t be with her anymore. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to still help her. I’m just unsure how.

Thanks
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Schlaff

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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2020, 04:30:39 PM »

Day two after announcing breakup.

She’s in full blown denial. Acting like a trip with us two and two friends is still on, even though I specifically said it’s not. Going on and on about how it’s different this time. Part of me even believes her, and all of me hopes she figures some of it out. Thoughts are even creeping in that yeah, maybe it can be good at last? But I feel like I need to stay resolved.

What worries me is, what steps am I going to have to take? Do I have to walk away completely? Be nasty to her? I’m already direct, but I’m civil. I don’t want to hurt her, she’s got enough pain. But I don’t know what I need to do to get her to finally listen to me, that it’s over. Hell, not listening to me until it was too late has been a theme for years now.

I don’t even know why I’m posting here. Haven’t gotten a reply and not sure I even expect one, or if I will hear something that I don’t expect. Just ranting I suppose.

Going to schedule a session with our therapist tomorrow I think, the one we saw together a few years ago. See if he’s got some better direction for me, or better words/actions to use here.

One of the positives through all this is that I learned a lot about myself, people, relationships. For one, I’m super conflict averse. It stems from patience and understanding, but I’ve also learned I avoid conflict even when it’s maybe needed? Perfect mark for a BPD haha. Oddly, I don’t view it as a strength or weakness, just a trait.

I’ve also learned, and maybe knew this academically but *really* learned it, you can explain things to people but you can understand things to people. I could list examples but there’s plenty out there, and of course my whole point of mentioning it is, you gotta live it to learn it, to some degree. Kind of interesting.

I’m also generally an optimist. This is all super, impossibly hard. But I know I’ll be fine. I’m legitimately more worried about her. Just want to do the right thing.

The hell is the right thing?
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2020, 07:29:24 AM »

Excerpt
Part of me even believes her, and all of me hopes she figures some of it out. Thoughts are even creeping in that yeah, maybe it can be good at last?

I can certainly understand this thought process. When my ex wBPD cheated on me, she begged me to let her stay with me. She said it meant nothing and that she would never do anything like that again. She said it made her feel sick and she only wanted me.

Then there were the promises to work on herself and get well. If she gets better, we can be together, she says.

Next minute she's dating the guy she cheated on me with 9 months earlier.

They are master liars, Schlaff. With BPD, it doesn't seem to be premeditated, but they only care about what will ease their pain and suit their needs. At the moment, you suit her needs - or maybe she simply doesn't want to feel abandonment - and she knows the correct words to say.

One thing I will can almost be certain of...now that you've broken up with her, it'll never be the same for her. You have triggered her ultimate fear and she will never trust you again. If you take her back, you will be devalued and eventually discarded. The relationship is over regardless of what path you take from here.
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Beth2468

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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2020, 10:39:09 AM »

Day two after announcing breakup.

But I feel like I need to stay resolved.

What worries me is, what steps am I going to have to take? Do I have to walk away completely? Be nasty to her? I’m already direct, but I’m civil. I don’t want to hurt her, she’s got enough pain. But I don’t know what I need to do to get her to finally listen to me, that it’s over. Hell, not listening to me until it was too late has been a theme for years now.

Going to schedule a session with our therapist tomorrow I think, the one we saw together a few years ago. See if he’s got some better direction for me, or better words/actions to use here.

I’m also generally an optimist. This is all super, impossibly hard. But I know I’ll be fine. I’m legitimately more worried about her. Just want to do the right thing.

The hell is the right thing?

Hi Schlaff
I hope that you managed to schedule a therapy session, and that it will be helpful.
I am not the best placed to give advice but I will give you my opinion.  Only you can decide what the right thing to do is - and you said you wanted to stay resolved (to breaking up) so it sounds like you have already decided.  You want to do the right thing because you are a caring, good person. You have to put yourself first and she is unlikely to change - you can not be responsible for her or her actions, and neither should you be.
Living and working together must make it even more difficult. Are you able to maintain any distance at work? Can your living arrangements be altered? If you are sure it's over, limiting contact as much as possible will help.
Best wishes.
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brighter future
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2020, 10:48:41 AM »

 Schlaff,

I am sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time, and I'm sure you've gathered by reading various posts on this forum that this type of behavior from your ex is very typical. Many on here will tell you that if by some slim chance these people can change their lives and behavior, they have to want it for themselves, and they have to initiate their treatment. None of us can help them, even though we truly want to because we love them. I had to learn the hard way with my BPD ex-wife and in my most recent relationship with my uBPD ex-g/f.

My uBPD ex-girlfriend and I have known each other for 20 years but dated for just shy of two years. We were close to getting engaged/married, but I could not pull the trigger because of her troubled emotional state and her refusal to get help. She received professional help briefly for 3-4 months in 2019 but discontinued treatment and never returned. Several times in the months following that, she stated that she needed to return to therapy but never followed through and said she was fine and continued to pressure me for an engagement/marriage. Two weeks before she abruptly ended our relationship, she told me that her emotional issues were almost unbearable and told me once again that she needed to return to therapy.

Long story short, she showed up at my home one afternoon to visit. As she was leaving, she gave me an ultimatum and said we either got engaged/married or she was out of the relationship. I told her I couldn't proceed until she worked on her issues and stated that marriage would further complicate them, not make them better. I stressed to her that I would stand by her while she shorted her issues out, but she stated that she didn't need help.  We talked on and off for about two weeks trying to possibly work things out. Sixteen days after our breakup, she was out on a date with the guy she rebounded with and had sex with after she left and filed for divorce from her ex-husband. She discarded this same guy to date me, and I did not find out about him until about a month after we'd been dating. When she told me about him, she stated basically that he only wanted one thing and that their relationship was unhealthy. I also learned from her that she was talking to three other guys from her past that she stated "all tried to talk me into things that made me feel uncomfortable. This is not who I am or want to be" she stated to me.  I learned from a mutual friend that she resumed talking to these 3 guys after she and I split all while hooking up with her rebound guy. Our mutual friend said that she bragged about talking all 4 of those guys and said anytime they find out she's single, they "all come out of the woodwork".  I also learned from someone else that this behavior was going on when she was married to her ex-husband. Supposedly she kept in contact with these men to some degree while she was married, but ended up having to cut off contact with them because it was causing marital issues with her husband (and for good reason). She added all of these men back to her social media as soon as she and her husband separated. No big surprise there, and that should have been a red flag that I should have paid attention to.

It still hurts me some today 4 months after I've gotten out of this relationship, but after everything I've described to you above, I'm thankful now that it has ended. There's plenty more that happened in the relationship, but I'll spare you all of the details. The healthiest thing you can do is go NC with your ex and get yourself some counseling (I've been in counseling for 3 months). I went NC with my ex-g/f 3 months ago, or about a month after our relationship ended. She stated that she wanted to keep in touch and remain friends, but I didn't want to set myself up for a recycle and more hurt. So, I cut off all contact and removed her from my social media. The only time I have to look at her now is when she visits her parents who live next door to me. She lives on the opposite end of town from me, about 15-20 minutes away.

Best wishes to you and take care of yourself.
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Schlaff

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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2020, 03:07:17 PM »

@grumpydonut

Thanks for the reply. I read it and just nod my head the whole time.

I guess “lying” is easy, if the person believes what they are saying. I really think she thinks it’s true.

Also that last bit about breaking up being a death blow, I should’ve known that years ago when we took a “break”. At that point I knew something major had to be done, but I was clinging on. I also knew rationally that “breaks” never work, ever. Doubly so with BPD, it seems.
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Schlaff

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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2020, 03:12:02 PM »

@beth

Thanks for the advice, and it’s as true as it gets. I have to decide what’s right. I just still don’t know. Sucks.

Today she broke down and accepted the break up, made plans to move.

An hour later she’s begging to find some way to not uproot, and it kills me. She will have to give up everything. I simply can’t be with her, but I don’t want to destroy her either!

No contact? Feel like she wouldn’t handle that at all. I considered lying to her, saying there will be contact, but really have an end goal of NC. I hate lying though and can’t bring myself to do that.

She also brought up staying in touch, down the line, who knows? I gave her the truth, I’m not against it, but I can’t promise anything. It might be that we can’t have a healthy interaction outside of being together.
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Schlaff

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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2020, 03:15:05 PM »

@brighter future

Thanks.

Again, reading your post and just nodding my head. Same kind of story and cycle. I don’t think I ever got cheated on, but I’m not sure anymore. This is what finally broke me actually:  trust is everything to me. I trusted her the whole way. She didn’t trust me, for no reason, and it finally snapped me in half.

How in the world did you go through this twice?
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brighter future
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2020, 03:50:36 PM »

@Schlaff,

I have learned in my three months of counseling that I am the rescuer type, which seems to attract people with BPD. Something within me feels like I need to rescue people in order to feel worthy or feel good about myself. I’m trying to work past that.

My ex-wife hid all of her laundry list of mental health issues that went all the way back to adolescence. My ex-girlfriend, in contrast, essentially told me of all her issues upfront and seemed to really want change in her life. Sadly wanting it and actually doing it are two different things. She’s reverted back to what she was doing prior to us getting involved. But maybe she never really gave up that behavior to begin with. I should’ve listen when she warned me but I didn’t. Never again. Right now I’m working on changing myself which is the only thing that I can be responsible for. I can’t be responsible emotionally for someone else or enabling someone else.
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Schlaff

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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2020, 04:21:31 PM »

@Schlaff,

I have learned in my three months of counseling that I am the rescuer type, which seems to attract people with BPD. Something within me feels like I need to rescue people in order to feel worthy or feel good about myself. I’m trying to work past that.

My ex-wife hid all of her laundry list of mental health issues that went all the way back to adolescence. My ex-girlfriend, in contrast, essentially told me of all her issues upfront and seemed to really want change in her life. Sadly wanting it and actually doing it are two different things. She’s reverted back to what she was doing prior to us getting involved. But maybe she never really gave up that behavior to begin with. I should’ve listen when she warned me but I didn’t. Never again. Right now I’m working on changing myself which is the only thing that I can be responsible for. I can’t be responsible emotionally for someone else or enabling someone else.

I suspect I might be the same. I want so bad to help her. It: incredibly frustrating to me that it seems so hopeless for BPD people. It’s such a horrible fate.

I think I won’t be interested in any relationship for quite a while, and I’d like to think I could avoid going through this again. But I’d have liked to think I could have done the last few years differently too, so who knows.
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brighter future
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2020, 07:42:05 AM »

@Schlaff,

I understand where you're coming from. I truly loved my ex-g/f, and it still hurts me some that things didn't work out between us. I'm slowly excepting the fact that there's nothing in my power that I could have done to achieve a different outcome in our relationship.  On the days that she was in a good mindset and functioning well, it was almost magical between us. I recall telling her on the very last day that we actually talked that I gave her everything I had and that I was sorry it wasn't enough for her. More than likely, her rebound guy will figure out sooner or later that what he's got to give will never be enough either. He's gone back for seconds, but one helping of that was more than enough for me.

As I said before, my BPD ex-wife was in total denial and blamed everyone (me, her parents, friends, other family members, co-workers, former therapists, etc.) for her problems. She loved therapy and talking to therapists for the attention but did little to nothing to change her life or her behavior. All of her disorders originated from adolescence and childhood abuse. During our divorce she tried to say that her disorders originated during our marriage and that I was the cause of them.  Lucky for me we had a forensic evaluation by a licensed clinical psychologist. In his report at the conclusion of the evaluation, the psychologist noted (after reviewing medical records, etc.) that all of her disorders originated during adolescence due to abuse and were never treated. What a fraud she is and thank goodness we had that evaluation to dispute her nonsensical claims. She and I have a child together, so I still have some contact together. I look forward to the day that I can completely remove all of her toxicity from my life. 

I'm going on 4.5 months since my uBPD ex-g/f and I split up. Like you, I'm not in an hurry to start up a new relationship with someone new due to all of this baggage on my end. I certainly could have done things differently in both of my past relationships as far as boundaries go, etc. I just can't ever go through this again.
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Schlaff

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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2020, 12:29:17 PM »

Day three

I’ve never been a believer in the Stages of Grief thing as a hard rule. She is bouncing around each stage quite a bit. Denial is frustrating, just makes the pain last longer, for both of us. Anger is easy, I just calmly tell her that now that we’re broken up, comin at me with anger has one result:  I walk away completely. Depression/bargaining is the hardest. I don’t care who’s fault it is, she’s hurting bad and that hurts me.

Anyways, she’s moving on from her job that she hates anyways. Gonna go finish her degree and get the job she’s wanted for a while. And this includes moving out.

I’ve done a lot of reading and thinking, and I’ve determined that I want to stay friends, keep in contact, for now anyways.

I’m actually hopeful. Not necessarily for our relationship, but for her. When she’s not on the stages of grief modes, and we are talking calmly, she’s saying the right things, she has made good decisions and plans. Signed up for classes, set up weekly counseling. In retrospect the first ‘break’ was a mistake, it should have been what we’re doing now. It wasn’t a big enough action. We still lived together, so she just had to be in a house with someone she felt abandoned her, which is of course living hell for a BPD. Maybe clean break and the support I can still give her, weekly counseling, steps toward a truly better life? Maybe she will make it.
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l8kgrl
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2020, 12:48:48 PM »

Hi Schlaff, I'm sorry for what you (and she) are going through.

Are you familiar with codependency? Many of us on this site identify with it. I recommend the book The New Codependency if you are at all interested. This feeling compelled to help others, even when they don't want to help themselves, is a key symptom. Not to diagnose you or anyone else. (And it's not actually a psychological diagnosis but more of a way of understanding certain thought/behavior patterns)

Reading about codependency and working on these thoughts and beliefs in myself has been helpful. It's a long process. Like others have suggested, this is an opportunity to look at yourself - what drew you to and kept you in this type of relationship. I still think about my ex-bf a lot but am slowly trying to shift my thinking to "what was the void or need in me that made this type of r/s so hard to let go of."

Also -- not to be negative, but just want you to be aware that even though right now you feel resolved in your own decision, the pain of separation can get worse over time, at least for some. I know it did for me. I was the one who broke things off and initially I didn't feel much. A couple months later I was miserable - it really was like a withdrawal. It can be helpful to write down all the bad stuff so that you can refer to that later, in case you start questioning your decision...
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brighter future
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2020, 01:21:04 PM »

Hi Schlaff, I'm sorry for what you (and she) are going through.

Are you familiar with codependency? Many of us on this site identify with it. I recommend the book The New Codependency if you are at all interested. This feeling compelled to help others, even when they don't want to help themselves, is a key symptom. Not to diagnose you or anyone else. (And it's not actually a psychological diagnosis but more of a way of understanding certain thought/behavior patterns)

Ditto, l8kgrl! Great point.
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Schlaff

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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2020, 10:33:54 PM »

Hi Schlaff, I'm sorry for what you (and she) are going through.

Are you familiar with codependency? Many of us on this site identify with it. I recommend the book The New Codependency if you are at all interested. This feeling compelled to help others, even when they don't want to help themselves, is a key symptom. Not to diagnose you or anyone else. (And it's not actually a psychological diagnosis but more of a way of understanding certain thought/behavior patterns)

Reading about codependency and working on these thoughts and beliefs in myself has been helpful. It's a long process. Like others have suggested, this is an opportunity to look at yourself - what drew you to and kept you in this type of relationship. I still think about my ex-bf a lot but am slowly trying to shift my thinking to "what was the void or need in me that made this type of r/s so hard to let go of."

Also -- not to be negative, but just want you to be aware that even though right now you feel resolved in your own decision, the pain of separation can get worse over time, at least for some. I know it did for me. I was the one who broke things off and initially I didn't feel much. A couple months later I was miserable - it really was like a withdrawal. It can be helpful to write down all the bad stuff so that you can refer to that later, in case you start questioning your decision...

Yes, codependence was brought up by our therapist. I’m not sure I fall under that category or not. I think I’ve somewhat ‘seen the light’ when it comes to helping her if she doesn’t want to change. I saw it as a problem, I was just too hesitant and scared to make a decisive move about it. I recall one fight where I outright said to her it was outside help or I’m gone. Things calmed down and I didn’t stand my ground. I’ve just met my limit with that.

Journaling. Yes. I recommend it to anyone for any goal, really. I’ve had great result with it for fitness goals, time management, etc. I did a bit or journaling for our relationship for a while and it seemed helpful. What I need to figure out is a strict set of rules for going forward. What’s okay, what’s over the line, what happens if lines are crossed. I feel confident I can do this.
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Beth2468

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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2020, 08:55:44 AM »

I’m actually hopeful. Not necessarily for our relationship, but for her. When she’s not on the stages of grief modes, and we are talking calmly, she’s saying the right things, she has made good decisions and plans. Signed up for classes, set up weekly counseling. In retrospect the first ‘break’ was a mistake, it should have been what we’re doing now. It wasn’t a big enough action. We still lived together, so she just had to be in a house with someone she felt abandoned her, which is of course living hell for a BPD. Maybe clean break and the support I can still give her, weekly counseling, steps toward a truly better life? Maybe she will make it.

From what I have read, it is possible for those with BPD to get help and change, but it doesn't happen often.

In the course of our breakup, my ex was saying lovely, insightful, kind things. It has occurred to me in the last day or so that he was still mirroring me - right up until the end. I said I didn't want to turn bitter, I would always care about him and some other things, which I put in an email soon after he left.  Before, during and after he collected his things a few weeks later, he was essentially quoting back my words.

I would like to suggest maybe cautious optimism on your part - wait until she is doing all the right things and not just saying them - her actions are the truth.
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2020, 09:32:32 AM »

Excerpt
I would like to suggest maybe cautious optimism on your part - wait until she is doing all the right things and not just saying them - her actions are the truth.

Exactly what I was going to say Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Schlaff

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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2020, 08:35:43 PM »

Agree. Part of why I’m posting here I guess, accountability.

If I get sucked back into the nonsense again it’s my fault, not hers. I firmly believe that at this point.

The first real hurdle will be when she inevitably breaks down after she moves, texts/calls me saying she can’t do it, etc. I can guarantee I won’t be saying “come back to me and it’ll be fine”, but I have to figure out what a healthy response is.

Flip side of course, I’d she does really well for a couple months, and wants to reconnect more deeply.

So like I said, think I need to really hammer out strict guidelines for myself
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 07:22:41 AM »

Schlaff - i am where you are. I realise I deserve better, want my DbpdH to change and realise he can live a different happier life.
We have children, and I feel robbed of the time that should have been happy for them and me.
So want to separate, (can't bring myself to communicate this to him) but want him to be ok.

I believe me being in front of him all the time possibly will make it harder for him to concentrate on getting better.

You cannot control anyone else's actions but your own. I often try and imagine that my son/mother/sister/best friend are being treated the way I am, and try to imagine the advice I would give them. It somehow takes the intense emotion out of the thought process for me.

I have also tried to put myself in the position of my BpdH and I know I would want help and support, but I wouldn't want to be hurting others the way he is hurting me, The difference is, he believes what's happening in his head, so doesn't even know how to feel when he hurts us.

The journey to the end, whatever that may be for all of us, seems like a long one. Yet if he had slapped me, or cheated on me, even if his reason was mental health related, I'd be gone in an instant. This is really hard.
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 08:41:29 PM »

@Diddle

Thanks for the reply.

I’m very glad I found this forum. It’s somehow reassuring to have a name to the disorder. Even more so to hear these stories from other people of the same cycles. And yet even more to hear advice or even just input from other people that have been in similar spots.

I agree this is hard. But like I keep telling her: it’ll get easier. It has to.
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2020, 08:51:51 PM »

Update on my situation, she’s left for a few days, started working for her mom weekdays, and started classes. I’ve already got the predicted meltdown of “I can’t do this” and it was just as hard as I thought it would be.

I don’t think I’d classify myself as significantly codependent, but I will say I needed to be more assertive in terms of what I need for things to work, and admit fault for that. Letting things slide was indeed part of the problem. So I’m working out how to enact that idea.

The current dilemma is, I continue to say she has to want to change for herself, not to get me back, or it won’t work. She’s having an impossible time separating the two. After trying to explain it a million ways (which I’m used to/sick of), I came up with a maybe cliched phrase, but I think it’s perfect. “If you can’t be happy without me, you can’t be happy with me”

Unfortunately if I’m 100% honest, I cant say anything but “I don’t know” when she continues to ask if there’s any chance of us working it out. We *are* broken up. I don’t know that I’ll have interest in anyone for a good while. I don’t know if I’ll ever have interest in her, even if she improves. There’s been so much damage. But I still care about her and likely always will. I did tell her I briefly considered lying to her, saying there’s no chance, period, ever, because her hearing that might be better for her to move forward. But I can’t pull the trigger, I hate deceit.

Anyways. I still think she’s on the right path. I hope she sticks it out. I hope I figure out what I need to still, which is that line we all seem to struggle with between still caring, but wanting to detach, at least significantly if not totally.
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2020, 08:47:56 AM »

Schlaff

The current dilemma is, I continue to say she has to want to change for herself, not to get me back, or it won’t work. She’s having an impossible time separating the two. After trying to explain it a million ways (which I’m used to/sick of), I came up with a maybe cliched phrase, but I think it’s perfect. “If you can’t be happy without me, you can’t be happy with me”

Unfortunately if I’m 100% honest, I cant say anything but “I don’t know” when she continues to ask if there’s any chance of us working it out. We *are* broken up. I don’t know that I’ll have interest in anyone for a good while. I don’t know if I’ll ever have interest in her, even if she improves. There’s been so much damage. But I still care about her and likely always will. I did tell her I briefly considered lying to her, saying there’s no chance, period, ever, because her hearing that might be better for her to move forward. But I can’t pull the trigger, I hate deceit.


If you want to be honest and "I don't know" is the honest answer, then stick with that. That should be enough for her, if she were able to see things from your point of view.
When I used to hope my ex would ask if we could get back together if he got help my imaginary response was "I don't know, I hope so, but when you have worked through some of your stuff you might realise that I wasn't right for you. This is about you and finding out what you need"
I do still hope he gets help, but I know there was too much damage for us to work, and I don't ever want to go through this again. I think I had a lucky(ish) escape, after almost a year together, the longer it went on the worse it would have been for me.  I still miss him but I don't want him back.
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2020, 09:04:38 PM »

Yeah pretty much.

It’s interesting, once you type it all out, some of the hard things seem obvious. Still hard in practice though sometimes.
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2020, 11:33:00 PM »

Been a couple weeks now, I suppose an update is a good idea. I haven’t been journaling like I planned, but this kind of works, right?

Anyways, she’s been moved out half time, still coming back to work some shifts at our shared job. We are quite civil most of the time. She still has little episodes where she’s mad about something trivial, that she has *no* grounds to be mad about, seeing that we are broken up. I have to stop conversations and point out that I’m done with some of those things, for good. It’s a little depressing for me, because I wonder if I can give patience to someone again, at the level that I did prior to this. I still am super patient/tolerant/understating/etc, but it’s been severely damaged. I dunno.

We’ve gotten out of our shared lease, at a cost, and I’ve scrambled for a place to live. She wants to have a place to stay on the weekends and I’ve accommodated. We sleep separately and all that but I still worry if I’m not detaching enough. But, per my previous posts, I still do care deeply about her, and she’s really got no other options.

I’m mostly fine otherwise Haha

She is.. . Still struggling.  She’s taken a full load of classes and work, very very little free time. Which is a double edged sword, she’s occupied, but it’s also adding to her stress. This has always been a problem for her too, always always needs to be doing something, not great at just relaxing.

But, perhaps the most significant item of this post, she’s gotten in with two different therapists, and the results have been odd and unhelpful so far. The first one immediately discounted the BPD diagnosis. “No, that’s ridiculous, you don’t have that” - within a few minutes of talking to her. I dunno how it works but that rubbed me the wrong way. And this therapist rubbed her the wrong way too, so she tried a new one. They did some actual questionnaires and analysis, and came up with “not BPD but you have traits of BPD”. That seemed a lot more palatable to me, and perhaps more common than anything. Anyhow it’s been a few weeks now and she really hasn’t gotten any actual damn therapy, just... groundwork. I guess it’s progress but it’s frustrating. I keep telling her “it’s okay. Life is gonna get better. It has to” but the rate this is going is very very understandably frustrating.
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2020, 11:58:17 PM »

Excerpt
But, perhaps the most significant item of this post, she’s gotten in with two different therapists, and the results have been odd and unhelpful so far. The first one immediately discounted the BPD diagnosis. “No, that’s ridiculous, you don’t have that” - within a few minutes of talking to her. I dunno how it works but that rubbed me the wrong way. And this therapist rubbed her the wrong way too, so she tried a new one. They did some actual questionnaires and analysis, and came up with “not BPD but you have traits of BPD”. That seemed a lot more palatable to me, and perhaps more common than anything.

Over the many years that this board has existed, we've observed that most romantic partners who drove us here are sub-clinical (with traits, but not clinically BPD).

My ex has been clinically diagnosed with Depression and Anxiety, yet she just has traits of BPD, or she hasn't been honest with her therapist who may be incompetent.

That's ok, most of its came here due to figuring out BPD.

we have members here and on Bettering, Conflicted, and most so on the Parent Board whose loved ones are indeed diagnosed with BPD.  In the end, there might not be much of a difference to us whether there is a diagnosis or not.  We find peer support here, and the communication tools and articles in the lessons and the suggested reading at the tops of the boards help.

A few years after I landed here, having arm-chair diagnosed the mother of our children as BPD, I took in my own mother to live with me and the kids. When she admitted that she thought she had BPD, it was very validating, for a second... and then I realized anti-climactic. Despite years of therapy and meds, her life was still a mess, 3 decades after I moved out on my 18th birthday. 

It's good to care and desire that someone gets helped, yet there is only so much we can do. Others are free, as independent entities, to make their own choices.
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2020, 05:39:17 PM »

@Turkish

Yeah I think I understand. I mean, it’s a complex thing, does seem more likely it’s a grayer area, and a person has traits and whatnot, rather than necessarily a single definable disorder. It still rubbed time the wrong way how this therapist just offhand dismissed it after a couple minutes.

It was a huge weight off my shoulders for some reason, having a name for this, and that included finding this board. But, yeah, hopefully she can still find a way forward, to get better and happier. Hey, maybe it’s even less of a hurdle, if she can address ‘traits’ rather than a full blown ‘disorder’
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2020, 09:45:36 PM »

One of my mother's therapists (she went through many) gave a roundabout Dx by giving her a book on BPD, suggesting that her father might have had it. My mom was smart enough to realize rust the T was in a way suggesting that my mom had it.

Many therapists don't know much about it, and even some who do are hesitant to make a formal Dx. PwBPD carry a lot of internal shame ("I'm a bad person").
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2020, 10:33:06 AM »

Schlaff

I think the way you have handled this and continue to, shows great strength. I suspect I may have done mine all wrong. I told mu husband that if he didn't get help I wasn't staying in our marriage.

So at the moment he is getting help, and is constantly checking that I want to stay still, because he's doing what I asked. So it feels like I've made it harder for myself to leave, if I still feel unhappy, because he's playing his part.

Great to see your update, and that you're staying firm, yet supportive. Long may it continue.
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2020, 10:18:40 PM »

@Diddle

Thanks for the encouragement. I’d like to think I’m doing some things right but it ain’t easy, and I’m not so sure. I vary between “am I abandoning her?” And “am I not detaching enough?”, every day. And, I should have done what I’m doing now, sooner. But that’s all the past, thankfully I’m pretty good at not dwelling too much.

Honestly though, one of the biggest helps for me is to type it out. Here, journaling, whatever. Some of it really clears up significantly. What you can/can’t do, what you will/wont do, etc. Then I feel like I can stop being wishy-washy up in my head. I dunno.
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2020, 02:54:48 AM »

codependency is more than the common stereotype of say, the clingy male.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

these are things that can be subtle, to greater or lesser degrees, depending on the relationship.

while it is not an officially (DSM) recognized condition, it ranges on a spectrum, much like bpd.

you sound like you are a bit conflicted, but primarily leaning toward breaking up, and taking steps in that direction. my comments are with that in mind. if you want to maintain a relationship of any kind, it will help to review the lessons, and perhaps post, on the Bettering board.

Excerpt
Unfortunately if I’m 100% honest, I cant say anything but “I don’t know” when she continues to ask if there’s any chance of us working it out.

it is honest, and i wouldnt encourage you to be anything but.

but i would suggest that if you are conflicted, she will be too, and she will test your conviction as most people in her position would. she will read into every mixed signal. she will adapt to them, as well. its an easy path from that position to "maybe, kinda sorta, but not really, but maybe" working on it, or "i want to leave, i just dont know how to do it". where you are in this may be somewhere in the middle of those two things.

the "easier said than done" version, is to work to get clear on your path, and to send consistent signals either way, to yourself, and to her.

if youre done, it is a far greater kindness to consistently send that signal (and learn here how to do so). it will suck for her, and that wont be easy on you, and youll likely want to do so in way that helps you Detach with Grace (lets her down easy). but sending mixed signals will keep her stuck, and it will keep you stuck.

if theres even a 5% chance of getting back together, if youre just not sure, and/or if your objective is working toward a friendly relationship, i would post on the Bettering board (you dont have to be in a romantic relationship or committed to one), you can explore your options there while trying to improve the day to day interactions.
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