Crossing the Line - Exiting the Theme Park Entirely

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Unsurprisingly, no response.
I'm glad I'm not brought low by not hearing back, like I used to.
I could speculate why she didn't respond, but we all know there's no point in doing that.
Probably just content with replacement for now.

Just forgetting I did it and moving forward.

Best thing you can do. Keep it moving. Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc. LOL. Keep your head up and keep making self-care a priority.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[SinisterComplex]

Unsurprisingly, no response.
I'm glad I'm not brought low by not hearing back, like I used to.
I could speculate why she didn't respond, but we all know there's no point in doing that.
Probably just content with replacement for now.

Just forgetting I did it and moving forward.

Best thing you can do. Keep it moving. Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc. LOL. Keep your head up and keep making self-care a priority.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Best thing you can do. Keep it moving. Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc. LOL. Keep your head up and keep making self-care a priority.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I'm being a fool, but Ive been thinking,  "if I had handled that conversation where she asked about being able to talk if she was seeing someone I could've won her over, now she hates me "

But I know it was triangulation, and even if what I said was true, it would be unpure.

I hate how much I still want her attention and reply. I had been doing well. I need to. Be. Done. Asking.

I'm just so amazed, I still care so much about her daughter, and if she gives any level of a crap about my kid, let alone me, she does a damn fine job of pretending otherwise.

[Couscous]

Rhonda Freeman’s website has a lot of good info about the neurobiology of toxic relationships, which are essentially, addictive. For this reason, addiction recovery groups can be invaluable, such as SMART Recovery, or since you have mentioned that you meditate, you might also find Recovery Dharma to be of interest: https://recoverydharma.org/

She says:

Symptoms of withdrawal, craving the toxic relationship, or deciding to stay are not a sign of personal weakness on the part of the victim. It is a reflection of normal brain functions, and we do not have the ability to over-ride the process from taking place.

When there is a traumatic bond, the brain will be prone to recall the positive, more than the negative aspects of the abuser’s behavior. This is likely in association with the neuropeptide oxytocin.

This situation can improve. With support, treatment with a skilled mental health professional, and time, the neurochemistry can settle down and return to homeostasis.

The withdrawal stage (craving, seeking, yearning, wanting) is changeable and usually not a permanent state. The brain will need time to recover. It does this best when an environment of calmness is fostered, and the individual focuses on self-care.

However, note that when there is an emotionally charged environment, such as continued engagement with the abuser or seeking acknowledgment and contrition from the disordered partner, or retaliation then the healing road will be longer and more difficult.


https://neuroinstincts.com/spellbinding-bond-narcissists-psychopaths-neurobiology/

[Red5]

'SinCom' wrote:
Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc...  

I love this!

"Time Travel" ...

I have often thought to myself, "if I could go back", ... but retain the knowledge I have up till now, ... and 'relive' my life, hopefully, perhaps correcting the many mistakes, ... would I do it?

Or would I 'avoid' Mrs. Red5 No.1, as well Mrs. Red5 No.2?

Well, I tell ya' ... yes, I would go back (if allowed to do so by the universal creator), ... perhaps, (Karma?) ... * an interesting thinking point/subject *  ... but I would not try to change anyone, ... but I reckon I would try (attempt) to correct my own bad behaviors, actions ... as I would have the life 'almanac' to guide me (?) ... and I absolutely would try (best attempt) to be a better person, ... and to learn and listen to my elders more, iot gain even more knowledge, ... wow ...

Avoid my life partners, girlfriends, wives,? ... certainly not, as my three; now grown adult children were resultant from Mrs. Red5 No.1 (21.3yrs) ... so no avoiding that, ... as for Mrs. Red5 No.2, ... again, no avoid, ... because, I have gained so much know from the relationship between her and I (16+ years now) ...

And what about the couple of women (early dating, high school ( ) that "got away"     , ... no, no avoid there either, ...
#life experiences

So much to ponder, ...

I saw this movie back in 1980, when I was about 15-16 yrs old... to this day, it is one of my fav's ...

Martin Sheen's character, ..."Warren Lasky" kind of nails it, ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilMjgszk19U

Hang in there ya'll ... live in the here and the now, ... as for tomorrow, there is a saying I have lived by for many years now, ... something to the effect of, "in depth planning/plans usually do not survive initial contact with the _____"

Red5

[Red5]

Couscous wrote:
" The withdrawal stage (craving, seeking, yearning, wanting) is changeable and usually not a permanent state. The brain will need time to recover. It does this best when an environment of calmness is fostered, and the individual focuses on self-care "

This is good info;

I have also read a lot about 'injury to the neuropathways, "neuroplasticity", ... "neural pathway psychological injury" ...

Very interesting, as well very explanatory as to what we experienced from our SO's over time, ...
#PTSD
#CPTSD
~
#addictions
#operant conditioning (stockholm syndrome)

"Time Heals"

Red5

[SinisterComplex]

I'm being a fool, but Ive been thinking,  "if I had handled that conversation where she asked about being able to talk if she was seeing someone I could've won her over, now she hates me "

But I know it was triangulation, and even if what I said was true, it would be unpure.

I hate how much I still want her attention and reply. I had been doing well. I need to. Be. Done. Asking.

I'm just so amazed, I still care so much about her daughter, and if she gives any level of a crap about my kid, let alone me, she does a damn fine job of pretending otherwise.

Runchie...that is being a bit harsh on yourself. Not a fool. Emotions man...it is ok. Relax. You are not perfect. You are not a robot. No Arnold I'll be back crap or T-2000 reliquifying terminators. Nope you are just a normal ordinary guy who has a heart, who cares, and got kicked in the nuts and is trying to deal with the aftermath of it. That is all. So home slice how about you truly listen to my words of being kind to you? Cut yourself some slack. You are not on a deadline. No pressure. No judgment. Take the time you need. Process everything and just keep yourself on your own timeline. No comparing to others.

Hey for what its worth amigo...I understand how you feel. The woman who actually caused me to come here well guess what? Her daughter was my little angel and she adored me. However, I had to remind myself...not my kid and not my circus to deal with. Unfortunately, that woman was her own starring attraction in her own rodeo as the wild bronco and bull all wrapped into one package. In essence, I had no dog in the fight so I pulled a Snoop Dog and dropped it like it's hot and have gone about my business since. Doesn't mean I don't care about the daughter, but it has to be at a distance.

As for how your ex may be acting...be under no false pretenses...she probably does care, but because of the nature of the disorder she cannot show it. Why? That means having to face everything and admitting she is wrong...ie not possible. The facade has to be in place and an ego death has to be avoided at all costs. She cannot deal with shame and guilt. Look at it like that. Don't let your worth be determined for you like that anymore. You matter with or without her approval. Comprende?

Keep your head up amigo.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

I just feel like I amy have driven her away for good by telling her things like "you don't know how to be alone", "You never cared about me or my son" and other such things. I also fear that telling her id been seeing someone else (who seems to be ghosting me btw) was the thing that might make her never want to talk to me again.
As much as I know i should be, and have been trying hard to focus on my path forward without her,
the thought of never seeing her again is something I still fear.

Our custody schedules are the same, we have the same "weekends off" with our kids, so these weekends are always hard because I know shes probably spending it with Paperboy (the name ive dubber her replacement).

While I have to work, tomorrow, and the person Ive been hanging out with has gone AWOL.
Shaping up to be another isolated lonely weekend, with more rain.

[Pook075]

I just feel like I amy have driven her away for good by telling her things like "you don't know how to be alone", "You never cared about me or my son" and other such things. I also fear that telling her id been seeing someone else (who seems to be ghosting me btw) was the thing that might make her never want to talk to me again.
As much as I know i should be, and have been trying hard to focus on my path forward without her,
the thought of never seeing her again is something I still fear.

Our custody schedules are the same, we have the same "weekends off" with our kids, so these weekends are always hard because I know shes probably spending it with Paperboy (the name ive dubber her replacement).

While I have to work, tomorrow, and the person Ive been hanging out with has gone AWOL.
Shaping up to be another isolated lonely weekend, with more rain.

It's funny, we are on such parallel paths.  I've been in a long distance relationship for a few months now.  It was going well, but I saw some small red flags from time to time that she may suffer from depression or something more.  We finally had our first argument, which I started by calling her out on something, and boy...the wheels completely fell off the bus in mere minutes, LOL.  Pretty obvious she's on that BPD spectrum somewhere.  But the crazy passionate love was there from the start and drew me right in- I ate it up hook, line, and sinker. 

I formally ended it today and I feel terrible for hurting her, but there's just no way I'm jumping into another cycle like that.  I plan on being single for awhile unless I somehow reconcile with my wife down the road.  It was a good lesson though on what not to do while recovering from a serious breakup.

I still feel for ya brother, keep your head up and your heart in the right place.  My focus is going to be on fitness these next few months- gym, biking, and maybe a little hiking mixed in on weekends.  Hoping to drop 35 pounds by summer since that's a goal that will pay off long-term regardless of where my love life leads me.

[OKrunch]

Yea exactly. I have made it known that If EX is to reach out, she can, but she must be the one to do so.
I have made it known I am not angry, and I do not hate her.

I may ask the woman I've been seeing a bit of direct explination for the ghostyness, and if she bails because of that, than that certainly wasn't meant to be.

Im sad today, but im not wallowing. I still have a positive view of the future, no matter what it looks like.

Framing EX in my head as a creature of the Fae has really helped me wrap my head (as best as one is able to anyway) around her behaviors.

As I said in someone else's post, they are elemental, enticing, beautiful, chaotic, fleeting, scared, cruel and passionate all rolled into one chaotic, seemingly fantastical being. To be idle is not their nature, to be caged, or precived to be caged is not their nature.
There has been a lot ive read about their ability to Love or not. They certianly do not love like we do, but they definitley do.
It's just like they are though, fleeting.
I cannot imagine trying to live in a world where everything i tried to grasp turned to sand and fell through my fingers.
I cannot imagine what it must feel like to fear and dislike ones self so strongly. To actually think "I am trash and do not deserve love".
To know, in my heart that, everyone I ever love will leave and hurt me.
How terrifying that must be to live that way.

So I am starting to learn to appreciate her for what she is.
A season, A summer storm, a bright bonfire, The Ever Changing Moon.
Idle, she is not.
Stable, She is not.
She is cyclical, amorphus, bright and hot. Like lightning made flesh.
Forest fires can scour the land, but they also promote new, aggressive growth in their wake.

The seasons change, but reccur. As the Moon waxes, so too shall it wane again.
They are both fleeting, and ever present. Always changing, always moving, but always there.

Sorry for all the cheesy elemental metaphors haha, it's just how I see the world. The Cosmos, The Elements, we are all chemistry and stardust, Energy and light.
As Above, So Below.

[SinisterComplex]

Yea exactly. I have made it known that If EX is to reach out, she can, but she must be the one to do so.
I have made it known I am not angry, and I do not hate her.

I may ask the woman I've been seeing a bit of direct explination for the ghostyness, and if she bails because of that, than that certainly wasn't meant to be.

Im sad today, but im not wallowing. I still have a positive view of the future, no matter what it looks like.

Framing EX in my head as a creature of the Fae has really helped me wrap my head (as best as one is able to anyway) around her behaviors.

As I said in someone else's post, they are elemental, enticing, beautiful, chaotic, fleeting, scared, cruel and passionate all rolled into one chaotic, seemingly fantastical being. To be idle is not their nature, to be caged, or precived to be caged is not their nature.
There has been a lot ive read about their ability to Love or not. They certianly do not love like we do, but they definitley do.
It's just like they are though, fleeting.
I cannot imagine trying to live in a world where everything i tried to grasp turned to sand and fell through my fingers.
I cannot imagine what it must feel like to fear and dislike ones self so strongly. To actually think "I am trash and do not deserve love".
To know, in my heart that, everyone I ever love will leave and hurt me.
How terrifying that must be to live that way.

So I am starting to learn to appreciate her for what she is.
A season, A summer storm, a bright bonfire, The Ever Changing Moon.
Idle, she is not.
Stable, She is not.
She is cyclical, amorphus, bright and hot. Like lightning made flesh.
Forest fires can scour the land, but they also promote new, aggressive growth in their wake.

The seasons change, but reccur. As the Moon waxes, so too shall it wane again.
They are both fleeting, and ever present. Always changing, always moving, but always there.

Sorry for all the cheesy elemental metaphors haha, it's just how I see the world. The Cosmos, The Elements, we are all chemistry and stardust, Energy and light.
As Above, So Below.

Runchie, quit apologizing. We the fam don't mind. Just express yourself genuinely. Do YOU and be YOU. I rather enjoy the eloquent word play.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[BigEasyHeart]

While I have to work, tomorrow, and the person Ive been hanging out with has gone AWOL.
Shaping up to be another isolated lonely weekend, with more rain.

I know it won't be easy, but maybe you are not alone and maybe you can look at this weekend as an experiment; to see if you can find a way to enjoy your own company. Listen to yourself and think about what you would like to do, what you need, and what would make you happy. Then, see if you can do some of those things for and with yourself. Speaking for myself, I know it won't be easy at first and thoughts of your ex may still intrude, but you may also be surprised at how much you can enjoy your own company.

[Couscous]

Would you say that as the weather has begun improving, that part of you is now holding out till the summer in the hope that Dr Jekyll will make an appearance, and that then you will have a chance to try to make things work the next go around?

[OKrunch]

Would you say that as the weather has begun improving, that part of you is now holding out till the summer in the hope that Dr Jekyll will make an appearance, and that then you will have a chance to try to make things work the next go around?

Yes and No. I do hope that as Spring truly unfolds she will become regulated again, as seems to be her pattern.
I would like to be on amicable terms with her, but I know that we cannot be in a relationship for years, if ever.
She has knowladge and self awareness that she's never had, and I hope that in times of regulation she leans into it and can get a handle on her eradic tendancies. She and her daughter deserve some peace, if they can get it.

I love Dr Jekyll, i really, truly do. So long as Hyde is there, I just cannot give her my energy like i had in the past. Im not very sure Hyde can be killed, perhaps sealed away through much work and therapy. I do not hope on this though.
Right now all I hope for is peace for us all. Peace and Contentment.

[Pook075]

Im not very sure Hyde can be killed, perhaps sealed away through much work and therapy. I do not hope on this though.

Just remember that Hyde is a two-headed beast of his own- you and her.  It's her for obvious reasons with the BPD, but it's also you in how you react to her outbursts and unwanted behavior.  She doesn't have to be "cured" for you to have a productive relationship, she just needs to want to make positive changes and commit to it.

My BPD kid hasn't been at an in-patient facility for almost four years now, and she hasn't had a meltdown (that I'm aware of) in at least a year.  She calls and checks on me every morning, just to make sure I'm okay, and if I need something she's here no matter what. 

I mean, this isn't my kid that I raised and watched self-destruct throughout her teenage years and early 20's.  I am so ridiculously proud of her and how she carries herself.  The BPD is still there and she has tough days like anyone, but she gets through it and moves on.  I am living, breathing proof that there is hope because she swore I was the devil almost her entire life.  Now we're like best friends and she's been in a stable relationship for almost two years now.

[OKrunch]

I never got a response from message I sent, she almost always finds some reason to answer. This is very unlike her. I think I finally put the nail in the coffin by telling her I was seeing someone else. I think I inflicted the abandonment wound of a lifetime. I'm probably never going to hear from her again and I'm pretty sad about it

[OKrunch]

oh my God I'm screwing up so bad. I just sent her another message and it was very sappy and sad. I wish I didn't do it, I wish I could just hate her for the things she's done to me. I was doing so much better and I've been backsliding like crazy lately. I don't understand why I can't just let her go. it's been over 6 months, this is the second time with broken up like this. I should know better by now, but I just miss her so goddamn much. we were supposed to be planning to get married not dating other people. this sucks

[Pook075]

oh my God I'm screwing up so bad. I just sent her another message and it was very sappy and sad. I wish I didn't do it, I wish I could just hate her for the things she's done to me. I was doing so much better and I've been backsliding like crazy lately. I don't understand why I can't just let her go. it's been over 6 months, this is the second time with broken up like this. I should know better by now, but I just miss her so goddamn much. we were supposed to be planning to get married not dating other people. this sucks

One day at a time, brother, one day at a time.  You didn't mess up anything, you proved that you're human and you still care about her.  That's fine, it's normal.  Quit beating yourself up.  Tomorrow is a new day.

[OKrunch]

One day at a time, brother, one day at a time.  You didn't mess up anything, you proved that you're human and you still care about her.  That's fine, it's normal.  Quit beating yourself up.  Tomorrow is a new day.

Thanks. Can't tell if this silence is because she hates me, she's punishing me (for daring to date?)
Or is she actually regulated and just thinks I'm toxic? Idk.

[Pook075]

Thanks. Can't tell if this silence is because she hates me, she's punishing me (for daring to date?)
Or is she actually regulated and just thinks I'm toxic? Idk.

Worry about what you can control (which is you, your thoughts, your actions, etc).  Let go of everything else because you can't control it.

In other words, focus on you.  There's no way to know what she's thinking or how she feels, even with your spider sense.  Just let that stuff go and find something productive to focus on instead.

[Couscous]

Modern communication methods make it so difficult to go no contact...

If you don’t have her number memorized you could deleting her phone number, plus unfriend her on all your social media. If you have her number memorized, then you can get a “dumbphone”, (can be found for less than $20) which will make it a whole lot harder for you to give in when the urge to text her strikes.

[OKrunch]

I don't care that much about having reached out. It's the fact that I didn't get anything resembling an answer and something just feels off.

It's ruminating over whether or not it's avoidance narcissistic injury or sheer hatred that can't stop thinking about

[OKrunch]

The literal last thing she said to me "I'm for sure done, let's not drag this out."

Which sounds like yet another "goodbye forever" threat, which she's done a lot before, but this silent treatment is the worst she's done.

[Husband2014]

Congratulations- that must be an amazing feeling.  If i didn’t have 2 kids I would have walked away 4 years ago too but sadly I have to figure this out for the kids. Happy for you

[OKrunch]

Congratulations- that must be an amazing feeling.  If i didn’t have 2 kids I would have walked away 4 years ago too but sadly I have to figure this out for the kids. Happy for you

It's not.

[OKrunch]

Well, she finally responded. It took me resending a venmo request for the rest of the money that she owes me.

She messaged back saying that she had been not responding because I had accused her of playing communication games.
She then said "We have broken up. It may not feel like it, but we do not owe each other any more of these explanations. I'll collect that blanket and other odds and ends that I have found around the house and I will get them to you somehow. But there isn't anything more we need to talk about. "

I told her that ignoring me after deliberately rubbing her new relationship in my face and making me jealous on purpose was immature and manipulative. I told her she should have responded saying that she did not want to talk as she had not clarified that before.

Then the dam broke.
I told her she cut my son away like a tumor. He got on the bus one morning and never came home because she flipped out. He never got to say goodbye to anyone or anything, and I told her that she then never even asked about him for the months following our breakup. I called her heartless, told her that getting engaged triggered her fear of engulfment and she split on me. I said everything I was feeling. I said good luck being happy with anyone for more than 6 months. She then threatened to block me again and I said don't worry about it I will be taking care of that on my end. Then I did.

I have to accept that I will never see my dogs again. I have to accept that I will not be able to watch her daughter grow up like I had planned.

She is purely cold and emotionless, it is very obvious she's quite pleased with her current situation and lack of object constancy is working it's wondrous defensive Magic for her.
Her smug holier than thou attitude is repugnant.

[OKrunch]

"We have broken up. It may not feel like it, but we do not owe each other any more of these explanations"

Still can't wrap my head around this statement.
It may not feel like it? Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

Also, I feel like it's worth mentioning she did sound very calm and indifferent. Obviously times in the past we have fought and things get emotional. Perhaps she had a delightful weekend with the replacement and his feeling particularly fueled right now.
Although they say indifference means they're over you more than anger from them does so there's that as well

[Pook075]

"We have broken up. It may not feel like it, but we do not owe each other any more of these explanations"

Still can't wrap my head around this statement.
It may not feel like it? Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

Also, I feel like it's worth mentioning she did sound very calm and indifferent. Obviously times in the past we have fought and things get emotional. Perhaps she had a delightful weekend with the replacement and his feeling particularly fueled right now.
Although they say indifference means they're over you more than anger from them does so there's that as well

Sorry you had a rough day, but you have to let it go.  She has mental problems yet you're trying to micro-analyze her every word and find deeper meaning.  The "meaning" is that she has mental problems and she's discarding you right now.  It's not fair, it's not right, but you have no control over it.

Focus on what you can control- you.  Get out of the camper and go to breakfast, walk around the mall for a bit, or go hang out at a local park.  Get some exercise in, go catch a movie...do something for you.  Be bold.  Be selfish.  But pick yourself up, dust yourself off, brush your hair and go have a little fun.

[Pook075]

Well, she finally responded. It took me resending a venmo request for the rest of the money that she owes me.

Careful.  I know you did that in a moment of weakness, but you told her that she didn't have to send you the rest of the money.  There's not much you can control here but being a man of your word is one of them.  Unless you just really, really need it, cancel that Venmo request.

[OKrunch]

Careful.  I know you did that in a moment of weakness, but you told her that she didn't have to send you the rest of the money.  There's not much you can control here but being a man of your word is one of them.  Unless you just really, really need it, cancel that Venmo request.

Done.

[OKrunch]

Aaaaand now shes "in a relationship" with some guy. Not even the guy she had been seeing before.

That was the final straw for me. Triangulation is so hurtful, and since ive known her shes done it to me and 4 other men.

Go, be the destructive force of nature you are. I. Am. Done. like, so very very done.

THank you all for all your help, support, tough love and adivce. you are all amazing people.