Interesting insight from my Therapist today

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Therapist appears to believe that is a combo or Bi-polar (as was his father) BPD.

He asked me a few questions: 

Does he have a thyroid problem?  YES

Does he have dry skin?  YES (worse; he has chronic psoriasis)

Does he have a body heat disorder, either always cold or always hot?  YES

Apparantely there are studies out there that BPD, Bi-Polar and Thyroid problems are inter-related, but it is not yet clear which comes first; the chicken or the egg.

Here is another interesting question he asked:  "Is there a particular smell about him you recall immediately?"  YES... .I thought it was odd that I smell oranges on his skin.  Studies say that we are attracted to someone's smell before we connect.  He gave me many examples of this.

He also suggested that I take medical leave and get help at an institution... .He sees me very depressed... .I can't... .I'd lose my job.  Besides, this forum is my mental institution and I will post and post until the cows come home or I start to smile again.

[Sailskier]

Therapist appears to believe that is a combo or Bi-polar (as was his father) BPD.

He asked me a few questions: 

Does he have a thyroid problem?  YES

Does he have dry skin?  YES (worse; he has chronic psoriasis)

Does he have a body heat disorder, either always cold or always hot?  YES

Apparantely there are studies out there that BPD, Bi-Polar and Thyroid problems are inter-related, but it is not yet clear which comes first; the chicken or the egg.

Here is another interesting question he asked:  "Is there a particular smell about him you recall immediately?"  YES... .I thought it was odd that I smell oranges on his skin.  Studies say that we are attracted to someone's smell before we connect.  He gave me many examples of this.

He also suggested that I take medical leave and get help at an institution... .He sees me very depressed... .I can't... .I'd lose my job.  Besides, this forum is my mental institution and I will post and post until the cows come home or I start to smile again.

[Sailskier]

To clarify the orange smell thing... .

I recall my happiest moments when I was a little girl when I would run and play in my grandmother's orange grove.

[Why Why Why]

Very interesting.  My ex had a thyroid problem and serious heat disorder problem.  She was always really cold even in the summer, and particularly in the winter when she'd be an icicle.  In terms of dry skin, yes, she did have it but nothing so out of the ordinary.  Regarding  bi-polar, she's not formally diagnosed but I wouldn't be surprised if she was as she would have major outbursts at the blink of an eye.  Her son would say she had it.

Regarding smell, the only smell about her was that of her perfume, though there is probably some pheromone that I was connected to.  Interestingly, she would always tell me how her previous ex had a yucky perspiration type scent to his skin, whereas she really liked the way my skin smelled (said I always smelled fresh and never stunk).  I guess the showers have paid off hahaha!

[2010]

Apparantely there are studies out there that BPD, Bi-Polar and Thyroid problems are inter-related, but it is not yet clear which comes first; the chicken or the egg.

Helena52, Would it be possible for you to get a new therapist? This information that you are getting is taking you further and further away from what you need to focus on. For instance, Borderline personality disorder is a personality disorder that is fairly orderly in it's behavior, unlike Bi-polar which is a cyclical brain chemistry issue or Hypo-or Hyper thyroidism, which is the human bodies way of managing hormones and metabolism.  While Bi-polar and the thyroid can create anxiety and depression, the two are treated with medication which eliminates much of the problem, medication for BPD does not. Borderline is a thought process that creates certain behaviors that need to be worked through in therapy, not a brain chemistry issue or hormone problem that can be treated with medication.

Dry skin, body temperature, smell... .these questions are related to hormones and chemistry, not personality. Please consider finding a therapist that understands Borderline and utilizes Schema therapy. That way you can get a feeling for how you got here and not attribute it to your former partner's physiological state, and avoid over analyzing some vague interpretation of physiological contraindications.  Anyone who takes you down that path is wasting your time with unnecessary and rather unprofessional interpretations.  

[Clearmind]

2010, I no nothing about brain chemistry however do borderlines suffer from autonomic instability as indicated by cold hands & sweating?

My ex always had freezing cold hands (felt like you could snap his fingers off) - now I attribute it to in part due to dysregulation.

[Why Why Why]

Yeah, I'm no biology/biochemistry/smarty health guy expert, but there may be a brain/body connection somewhere.

Either way, 2010 makes a good point... .who cares really.  Whether there is a link or not, they can have 5 thyroids or be snowmen/women in disguise, will that really help us heal?  Not really.  We got here because of weak boundaries, codependent nature, etc etc... .that's what we gotta resolve and get to the root of.

But, I will say one thing for certain.  Next girl, if her hands/feet/entire body is always cold, I'm running.  No more vampires for me always stealing the blanket!

[Sailskier]

Ofcourse I'm not a therapist... .but the facts in my case are:

His father was a severe and diagnosed Bi-polar patient until he died.

His father had very bad psoriasis and so does my ex.

His mother was emotionally absent, raising and emotionally abusing her three young sons.

My ex stated many times that he was fearful that he may have signs of being bi-polar.

His mother was unable to maintain a relationship with any men she met and had many many signs of BPD.

His 13 year daughter is being treated for cutting herself... .not sure what her therapist diagnoses her with (she lives w her mother)

The heat disorder issue has to do with having a thyroid problem, which has been attributed to signs of bi-polar disorder.

There appears to be criss-cross studies on ppl who are slightly bi-polar and have BPD traits... .it's all over the internet

But you are right... .I will question my T further... .but I am not going to dismiss it since I dont have a medical degree.

[Sailskier]

5 thyroids or be snowmen/women in disguise, will that really help us heal? 

Maybe you it won't help you... .but it will help me.  Who I am to judge what it takes for someone to get to the point of getting healed.  I envy you that you don't need the validation, I do

[Clearmind]

Helena, hugs to you. This is a leaving/detaching board so you post away. I have been on the board for 3 months and have vented and asked questions all over the place. 

[Sailskier]

Thank you Clearmind.   I was feeling a bit sh##ty just now. 

If I had the answers, I wouldn't be here... .and if you had the answers, you'd have a PHD.

[Clearmind]

   yes it's hard and posting really helps way more than talking to someone who doesn't know about BPD.

Also folks on here at are different stages of healing where their feelings are not so raw so sometimes comments can appear unsympathetic but there not - just further long and at the real anger stage. That has showed in some of my posts also... .all a process and you have great insight. I know when I say things like "who cares" it's more for my benefit because it helps me to detach.

I like reading your posts   

[diotima]

PhD's don't necessarily have the answers either.

Helena, I can understand wanting to understand an experience that makes us crazy. I tend to want explanations too and delved into object relations material--along with some of the consequences for brain development in impaired object relations (poor mothering or poor attunement of mom and baby, basically), but when all is said and done, we are faced with having to go through the process of detachment, which is so painful no matter what caused it.

I do know about trying to make sense of the senseless as often part of that process... .

Diotima

[Why Why Why]

I did not mean to come across as judgemental.  Apologies to you Helena if I made you feel bad.    

Keep doing whatever it takes for you to heal.  I use humour and can sometimes come across as overly blunt (just my silly diarrhea mouth personality).  2010's post is really eloquent and well put.  I can never write posts like that guy, he's just too dang smart!

ps... .I'm in the anger stage round 2... .I'm pretty b!tchy in my replies sometimes.  Haha!

[Sailskier]

Simply... .I'm not saying that my T is right... .as a matter of fact, he frankly told me that in his studies, he foused on BPD and is very aware of the symptoms.  My ex has 8 of the 9 characteristics, which have been consistent all thru his 49 yrs on earth. 

My T immediately suspected he had BPD & frankly told me last week that he tried to counsel BPD patients but was not "very good" in dealing w' them.  He even suggested that if my ex asks for help, he would recommend other counselors that are best equipped to deal w' BPD types

He was merely pointing out other physiological genetic traits that are evident in his medical history.

You are right... .it is what it is... .bi-polar... .thyroid dysfunction... .BPD... .makes no difference as to why this or that. It's not as though that I will convince him to get meds, go to therapy and all will be a bed of roses.  The trouble is ME!   I need to understand this enigma so I recognize what happened, be healed and stay away from other possible loony tunes   

[Sailskier]

I did not mean to come across as judgemental.  Apologies to you Helena if I made you feel bad.    

No apologies necessary... .I understand, we get pulled from one observation to another and back again.

But as I many times say to my friends who are in trouble "Whatever gets you thru the night... .it's alright". 

Just yesterday I snapped at my cousin who told me that I should just accept it and move on... .I'm not over that one yet... .I may sneak up to his house tonite and slash his tires!  ... .jk  

[diotima]

One of my T friends said anger is good! I had more at the beginning. You wouldn't believe the nasty fantasies I have had. Do you watch the TV program Dexter? I set up my own "kill room." Hmm, maybe I need to do more. Don't just slash the tires.

Diotima

[catnap]

It is easy just to say he/she treated you like something they found on the bottom of their shoe. . .move on.  Until they experience it or see it up close like I did with my son, it is hard to get them to understand.  Most relationships going south do not leave you thinking your are crazy, PTSD symptoms, etc.  BPD does. 

Yes, work through it.  Find your issues and learn the red flags.  Heal.  What works in the healing process is different for everyone in one way or another. 

I just love Diotima!  A Dexter kill room.  Mine were not that detailed, a baseball bat was as far as I got.

Btw, son's exgf always had the thermostat on freezing in the summer and hothouse in the winter. 

[diotima]

Baseball bats will do the trick.

The details of my kill room are not fit for polite company.

Diotima

[2010]

Hi Helena52, I also did not mean to be judgmental- The questions that your therapist is asking are in consideration of bi-polar brain chemistry, which seems to be a positive on all accounts in your investigations/seeking answers to what this person's problem is. While Bi-polar and Borderline are often confused, the differences are simply that one is helped by medication while the other is not. And on the flip side, one is helped by therapy while the other is not. If you choose to stay and help this person, you must understand that medication is a key factor in mood swings rather than ideas and thoughts about persecution. If a person has both Bi-polar and Borderline, the medication and therapy together are the only way to adapt a healthy outcome. A healthy outcome still requires medication for bi-polar while the Borderline thoughts are treated. Only the patient can do this for themselves. Hope this helps and good luck.  

[Sailskier]

2010:

I did not take it personally, we haven't even met . 

But I was taken back when you advised that I should seek someone else, that the T that I am meeting was not well informed & that Bi-polar, Thyroid and BPD are separate conditions. My argument is that you can be a diabetic, who has heart disease along with hemrhoids (LOL)... .They can certainly co-exist and they need to be treated separately. So it looks like we are both right?

My T is concerned enough about my depression that he was trying to convince me to take a week and check in to a medical facility... .he sees what this has done to me and I know he will help me. I am staying with him.

It makes no matter if BP, BPD, etc... .He and he alone can get treatment... .it just would help me to know... .that is who I am ... .and once I wrap up my conclusion, albeit, it may not be accurate, I will begin to heal.

[oceanblue]

Helena - post away.  It helps - all the venting, musings, cries for help, questions - getting it out was very helpful for me.   

I have taken a long, curvy path towards "healing."  There are days it is all about me but other days I am still angry at my BPDbf - he lied to me, stole from me, screwed with my head and committed serious wrongs - I also have a right to be mad, hurt and anxious.  It has been really helpful to vent all of that here - I don't think I could have been as far along without doing all of that and being supported doing it.

Sometimes there can be too much pressure on this board to focus only on yourself, heal, heal, heal and get over the past. For me, it was a process that has taken quite a bit of time.  I wish I could flip a switch but I don't think it works that way.  I drift in and out of thinking about my BPD relationship - a lot less now than I used to - but it still happens and I have to let it.  I don't think that has been an obstacle in any way to my healing but part of the letting go of my fantasy of what I thought the relationship was. 

[Zena321]

I can see where your T was coming from Helen and what you said about things co-existing . My estranged H is being treated for Bi-Polar I believe (Lithium and Xanax )I am almost 99% sure he is BPD and NPD also . He happens to have type 1 diabetes and CAD and his cardiologist has been doing thyroid labs on him the last year . So he has many co-existing conditions some treatable with medications,artery stents,anxiety meds ,insulin and others that are who he has been and always will be .His personality suck someone in ,suck their love and devotion dry,dump them after about 3-5 years and find a new sucker to get his high "the in love feeling" leaving the devastions behind without a care in the world never looking back always ahead to what he wants.

At 47 not sure how many more 5 year new relationships will sustain him as his physical conditions are aging him inside. He will need to at some point keep someone to be his caretaking when he becomes blind(he is already halfway there) now maybe this one will be his prisoner ... .

I know I finally honestly can say and its taken along time to feel this . I do not want him back,I know it won't work ever. I am not yet ready or strong enough to divorce him as I know the fight he will give me and can admit that also . But it has taken me a very long time to know heart and soul and head to know to much time and pain has been felt by me ... I want to move forward myself.

[SOOOdone]

I will put my two cents in just to confuse things even more... .since I am out of a BPD relationship and crave chaos... .


Ethically a therapist needs to give only the information that is considered "scope of practice" ... .asking diagnostic question about someone's dry skin etc is treading on an endocrinologist's domain... .however it isn't terrible to discuss it and wonder together about it.

My only concern is what you were concerned about... .losing your job if you you went inpatient. And I am not convinced that much is gained from inpatient for depression as much as keeping up with the structure of your work, posting on here, andc forcing yourself to go to movies and dinners with friends etc. Of course you're depressed! A mild med for it may be very effective.

So I won't knock what your T is telling you since sometimes any therapy is better than isolating and not talking to anyone to begin with, and they may have a lot to offer you... .you are the best judge of your relationship with your T than anyone. It can't be worse than a BPD relationship so it is an improvement no matter who they are!:) Trust your gut and your intuition. If you don't like what they are doing let them know. Mental health is best achieved through honest communication of both parties... .

[2010]

I was taken back when you advised that I should seek someone else. My T is concerned enough about my depression that he was trying to convince me to take a week and check in to a medical facility... .he sees what this has done to me and I know he will help me. I am staying with him.

Good. Your feelings are all that matters here. This was my mistake. I thought your therapist was saying that bi-polar and thyroid issues are specific Borderline traits, but it sounds as though your therapist was talking about bi-polar instead.  Bi-polar patients are often very depressed and appear unipolar during down times, and their thermostat and metabolism slows down in depression which affects the thyroid functions. It’s important for your therapist to make the distinction of bi-polar disorder in order to understand what you were having to deal with during the stressful moments of your partners mania.

A good therapist should help <<you>> stabilize from the trauma of witnessing the oppressive and erratic hyper-hypo-mania behavior of bi-polar and deal with the post traumatic stress that comes from witnessing it.  It sounds as if you are in good hands and you feel safe with this therapist.  That’s good.  A good therapist invites you to unravel the mystery of what’s going on but only after you have stabilized from the trauma.  It’s important to place a lens on bi-polar disordered partner but only inasmuch as their behavior affected *you.*  You can polish the lens until it presents a specific view of the other person, but it’s your experiences that matter most.  In time, you’ll start to feel much better.

The pain does get better, I promise.  Take good care of yourself.