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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Your ex was emotionally immature. Were you? Yes? No?  (Read 16636 times)
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« on: September 19, 2012, 05:29:41 PM »



______________



Members said:

Fact-61% | Legend-39%

_______________hit__________

An individual's overall life functioning is linked closely

to his level of emotional maturity or differentiation.

People select partners who have the same level of emotional

maturity.


This is Fact.  Yet 39% of members said "no" to this long standing family theory - Bowen's "family systems" theory.

An individual's overall life functioning is linked closely to his level of emotional maturity or differentiation. People select ... .partners who have the same level of emotional maturity. Emotional immaturity manifests in unrealistic needs and expectations. ~ Murray Bowen, M.D

39% of members voted that this was an "urban legend"  - which is interesting  when you think about it - members often say they saw the red flags but ignored them - they knew the relationship was doomed, but stayed --  or put in other words, their emotions overruled their common sense (intellect).

How about your relationship specifically.  Were you emotionally immature?  If yes, can you give an example?




The concept of Differentiation of Self is the ability to separate feelings and thoughts. Undifferentiated people can not separate feelings and thoughts; when dealing with relationships, they are flooded with feelings, and have difficulty thinking logically and basing their decisions on that. This often manifests as unrealistic needs and expectations.  Further, they have difficulty separating  their own feelings from the feelings of others‚Ķ

Differentiation is described in many ways in the following points:

1. Growing in the ability to see where and how I fit into my relationship, the position I hold and the power that is and is not given to that position.

2. Growing in the ability to be fully responsible for my own life while being committed to growing closer to those I love.

3. Intentionally developing, at the same time, autonomy and intimacy. In developing autonomy I set myself towards achieving my dreams and ambitions. In developing intimacy, I allow those close to me to see and know me as I really am.

4. Being willing to say clearly who I am and who I want to be while others are trying to tell me who I am and who I should be.

5. Staying in touch with others while, and even though, there is tension and disagreement.

6. Being able to declare clearly what I need and requesting help from others without imposing my needs upon them.

7. Being able to understand what needs I can and cannot meet in my own life and in the lives of others.

8. Understanding that I am called to be distinct (separate) from others, without being distant from others.

9. Understanding that I am responsible to others but not responsible for others .

10. Growing in the ability to live from the sane, thinking and creative person I am, who can perceive possibilities and chase dreams and ambitions without hurting people in the process.

11. Growing in the ability to detect where controlling emotions and highly reactive behavior have directed my life, then, opting for better and more purposeful growth born of creative thinking.

12. Deciding never to use another person for my own ends and to be honest with myself about this when I see myself falling into such patterns.

13. Seeing my life as a whole, a complete unit, and not as compartmentalized, unrelated segments.

14. Making no heroes; taking no victims.

15. Giving up the search for the arrival of a Knight in Shining Armour who will save me from the beautiful struggles and possibilities presented in everyday living.

To differentiate is to provide a platform for maximum growth and personal development for everyone in your circle of influence. It means being able to calmly reflect on a conflicted interaction afterward, realizing your own role in it, and then choosing a different response for the future. Not to differentiate is to fuse (the failure to become a separate person) with others and to place responsibility on others (or on situations, predicaments, and hurdles) for the way in which our lives develop.

These widely accepted theory were developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940's and early 1950's, when he was a psychiatrist at the Menninger Clinic. After his time at Menninger's, he moved to the National Institute of Mental Health, then to Georgetown University Medical Center and finally established the Georgetown Family Center in Washington, D.C.

Bowen's therapy is a process of increasing one's differentiation or ability to balance automatic reactivity and subjectivity with a factual view of oneself and others.





www.bowentheoryacademy.org/6.html

www.difficultrelationships.com/2006/03/25/bowen-differentiation/

www.psychpage.com/learning/library/counseling/bowen.html
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Suzn
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 05:46:40 PM »

I would say yes. I was emotionally immature for the most part. I entered into and stayed in a relationship that was unhealthy. I blamed everything "bad" that happened on my ex during that r/s and after the breakup for a period of time. I also felt as though I was a victim of this r/s, untill I started taking account of my own issues and reactions.
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 07:12:26 PM »

I would say yes. I was emotionally immature for the most part. I entered into and stayed in a relationship that was unhealthy. I blamed everything "bad" that happened on my ex during that r/s and after the breakup for a period of time. I also felt as though I was a victim of this r/s, untill I started taking account of my own issues and reactions.

About same for me and I am just coming out of one so everything is fresh.

I don't blame the ex for everything bad but really most of the really bad stuff came out of her BPD. I blame myself for sticking with it so long and/or not trying to get her help a little more.  I don't really feel like a victim but maybe I am behaving like one.

One of the things my ex told me about her ex husband was that he behaved like a victim throughout the whole deal.  Up to this r/s I could never have seem myself behaving as a victim but in many ways I am.

One of my not so nice characteristics is that I am patient, patient, patient but when I finally run out of patience I go over the top in my reactions to the next 'abuse.'  If them mess with me I hit back with massive retaliation.

So... .yes. yes yes not emotionally mature for me.
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 08:22:38 PM »

Yes, definitely, the simple fact that i wandered into the relationship and gave myself completely so quickly and without question suggests so. Emotionally immature and extremely naive.
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 08:37:53 PM »

I was emotionally embryonic.
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 08:48:08 PM »

It's possible that my emotional immaturity was masked in relatively normal relationships prior to one with my ex uBPDgf .  I have to admit that I was in way over my head and accepted behaviours and tolerated red flags far beyond I should have as my boundaries were askew and I was willing to be doormat.  I think for the most part I lacked the emotional IQ to succeed or survive in crazytown, a place where we both resided due to our hero/victim dynamic.  I was indeed an enabler for her antics, offering to change many aspects of my appearance, home, and to some degree behaviours - I walked on eggshells to preserve a fantasy, which is an immature approach for sure... .

She also took anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications and if I'm be honest with myself, at the time I did feel a sense of superiority to her since I saw myself as wholly and entirely "stable" .

Anyway my defence mechanisms finally took route in a dramatique and explosive email exchange and I lashed out after my buttons were pressed in a petty and immature fashion.  :)espite the delusional complaints about innocuous items that apparently triggered her abandonment issues, and the false and cruel accusations, she didn't deserve the vehemence of my response, and I wasn't strong or mature enough to walk away peaceably.  The difference is that I realize what happened and sought a "T" to help me cope with these issues.  It's taken much pain and introspection and conversations with terrific people, but I can sense tremendous growth mentally and emtionally, and that no I would address issues in an entirely different and more resolved manner than before.  The difference between her and I is that I desperately want to learn and evolve due to my experience dealing with the tumult of BPD, and she will merely continue her destructive patterns as she has refused to seek counseling.

So just because we may have acted emotionally immature, doesn't mean we're trapped there.  The first part is acknowledgment, feeling remorse for your actions, and then the hard work to admit weaknesses and find the tools and emotional/mental structure that will help move you into a healthier framework from which to operate.  One can be too hard themselves for making such mistakes as critical as they were as they likely hurt others such as your ex in the process.  We must realize we if we embrace the lessons presented to us, we are no the same people we were while in or even sometime after the end of the BPD relationship.

Interestingly I think my hero complex can be an asset... .If I visualize my behaviours as a monster within me, then my hero side will try and conquer such demons... .it's a stronger metaphor than merely saying I need to change some bad habits.  Just like notions that tolerance and loylatly are generally perceived as good traits, they may fail you in a BPD relationship, so why not use personality traits that are perceived as unhealthy to garner a positive outcome?

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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 09:23:04 PM »

i don't know if i could classify myself as emotionally immature. I know that i was manipulated using logical reasoning into jumping head first into my relationsship. My exuBPDgf would put little quips in my head like "just listen to your heart and not yout head for once" "trust your feelings"  Needless to say i rationalized it all and assumed if i have never tried it how can i criticize the theory so set out to apply it. 3 years later and i am a single man. Happily broken up as she has moved on and found her 2nd repacement that everybody I know say is a downgrade.

Narcascistic I concede i may be a little but i feel as thought i tried a hypothesis and that hypothesis failed and i learn from my mistake for the next time.
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 10:13:17 PM »

i don't know if i could classify myself as emotionally immature. I know that i was manipulated using logical reasoning into jumping head first into my relationsship. My exuBPDgf would put little quips in my head like "just listen to your heart and not yout head for once" "trust your feelings"  Needless to say i rationalized it all and assumed if i have never tried it how can i criticize the theory so set out to apply it. 3 years later and i am a single man. Happily broken up as she has moved on and found her 2nd repacement that everybody I know say is a downgrade.

Narcascistic I concede i may be a little but i feel as thought i tried a hypothesis and that hypothesis failed and i learn from my mistake for the next time.

I had the same thing from my borderline. "listen to your heart, not your brain"... .and I was dumb, I believed her. Or "don't you trust me?"... .well, I learned a lot about myself. Yes, I was emotionally immature and I gave up who I was to p

Please this nut job. Ive learned to never ignore myself or my feelings
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 05:12:18 AM »

Yes, I was immature. I made the choice to allow myself to go way to fast into a full blow relationship because all the right things were being said. I *wanted* them to go fast because dating always seemed inordinately messy to me. I robbed myself of truly getting to know the ex. That said, there is a reason people date for a reasonable length of time; to vet a prospective partner and find out the little things that only come out in time. I found out those dealbreakers only after I was neck deep when I never should've put myself in that position.

It was a growing up experience that I needed to have. Dating is essential. You don't build an intimate relationship before a friendship. I robbed myself of taking that important time to develop (or not) an affinity for someone.

After I realized my mistakes and jumping in like I did, instead of leaving when it got out of control which would've been mature, I stayed. Probably some self esteem issues at work, being that at that time I'd rather have someone who was unraveling and taking me with her rather than just leave and apply the lessons I needed to learn going forward.

I was also immature with anger. I didn't break the cycle. I stayed in the little wars with her and I lost sight of the big picture. Was this healthy for me? Was this healthy for her? No on both counts. It was untenable situation. I was unhappy, her disorder was in a phugoid-like motion. Staying brought no joy to anyone. Exiting was the only option.

I know why I stayed though, I adored her daughter. I was selfless with the child, but it was immature of me to hang on and put up with dxBPDgf to be around the child. It was an unhealthy dynamic that, had I stayed longer, would've yielded more pain.

As an aside, a comment of people being drawn together because of their similar emotional maturity. Yes, dxBPDgf really made me feel like she was on my wavelength. So many similarities, so much that just felt right.  Little did I know of the idealization and mirroring phase that goes along with BPD traits. Only after that phase begun to fade and the real dxBPDgf came out, then I was in horror. Perhaps that's why their mirroring is so effective? They sell that near-perfect emotion mature connection.  It's only later you find out the devil in the details.

Rushing in through my own immaturity left me a sitting duck for a BPD type person to wedge in quickly.







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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2012, 05:28:13 AM »

Yes, I was immature. I made the choice to allow myself to go way to fast into a full blow relationship because all the right things were being said. I *wanted* them to go fast because dating always seemed inordinately messy to me. I robbed myself of truly getting to know the ex. That said, there is a reason people date for a reasonable length of time; to vet a prospective partner and find out the little things that only come out in time. I found out those dealbreakers only after I was neck deep when I never should've put myself in that position.

It was a growing up experience that I needed to have. Dating is essential. You don't build an intimate relationship before a friendship. I robbed myself of taking that important time to develop (or not) an affinity for someone.

After I realized my mistakes and jumping in like I did, instead of leaving when it got out of control which would've been mature, I stayed. Probably some self esteem issues at work, being that at that time I'd rather have someone who was unraveling and taking me with her rather than just leave and apply the lessons I needed to learn going forward.

I was also immature with anger. I didn't break the cycle. I stayed in the little wars with her and I lost sight of the big picture. Was this healthy for me? Was this healthy for her? No on both counts. It was untenable situation. I was unhappy, her disorder was in a phugoid-like motion. Staying brought no joy to anyone. Exiting was the only option.

I know why I stayed though, I adored her daughter. I was selfless with the child, but it was immature of me to hang on and put up with dxBPDgf to be around the child. It was an unhealthy dynamic that, had I stayed longer, would've yielded more pain.

As an aside, a comment of people being drawn together because of their similar emotional maturity. Yes, dxBPDgf really made me feel like she was on my wavelength. So many similarities, so much that just felt right.  Little did I know of the idealization and mirroring phase that goes along with BPD traits. Only after that phase begun to fade and the real dxBPDgf came out, then I was in horror. Perhaps that's why their mirroring is so effective? They sell that near-perfect emotion mature connection.  It's only later you find out the devil in the details.

Rushing in through my own immaturity left me a sitting duck for a BPD type person to wedge in quickly.

It's absolutely uncanny how I could have written your passage, down to bonding with my ex uBPDgf's  daughter!  
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 07:49:40 AM »

Yes I was and still am

I'm 38 and act like an 18 year old most of the time. That was hard to admit to myself.
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 07:55:21 AM »

yes, i put up with alot of unacceptable behavior, why cuz i was afraid to hurt his feelings and end the relationship, yet i still put up with all the hurtful words and pain he caused me. And yes, i still have alot of growing up to do, i guess think of myself and wants and needs and stop worrying about the other person.
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 08:06:08 AM »

I was emotionally immature, but in a different way than he was, and I also saw myself as superior to him emotionally/health-wise. I could see how screwed up his reactions and responses to situations were, and the overly-dramatic responses to many minor things, and I saw myself as far healthier than he. So, I was immature in a different way, in that I'd apologize to him for things that I still believe I bore very little responsibility for, just to keep the peace and make him feel better, and just so I didn't have to end the relationships.

I also ignored the red flags and did whatever was necessary to keep the relationship "intact."

My immaturity manifested itself in far different ways, and I'd have to also say more subtle ways. Most people could see/knew how screwed up he was. I don't think others (especially his family) could see how screwed up I was (although I'm sure they thought what the heck is she doing with my ______ (brother, son, uncle, etc).

M
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 09:30:33 AM »

Oh YES.

I was -entering into this r/s way too fast for anyone's own good. ignoring the  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  deliberately, wanting to be rescued, taking ownership of both our problems... .

I was also narcissistic in that I saw myself as beyond *failure* and big enough to carry both of us.

I entertained fantasies of happily ever after even when Reality proved otherwise. if that's not grandiose... .then what is?   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Once I read about mirroring on F2F and how so suddenly he *knew we were right for each other* when earlier I was NOT his type... .I was sick to my stomach. I chose that?   ?

Yes, at one time, I DID.

GL
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 10:04:56 AM »

It's possible that my emotional immaturity was masked in relatively normal relationships prior to one with my ex uBPDgf .  I have to admit that I was in way over my head and accepted behaviours and tolerated red flags far beyond I should have as my boundaries were askew and I was willing to be doormat.  I think for the most part I lacked the emotional IQ to succeed or survive in crazytown, a place where we both resided due to our hero/victim dynamic.  I was indeed an enabler for her antics, offering to change many aspects of my appearance, home, and to some degree behaviours - I walked on eggshells to preserve a fantasy, which is an immature approach for sure... .

She also took anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications and if I'm be honest with myself, at the time I did feel a sense of superiority to her since I saw myself as wholly and entirely "stable" .

Anyway my defence mechanisms finally took route in a dramatique and explosive email exchange and I lashed out after my buttons were pressed in a petty and immature fashion.  :)espite the delusional complaints about innocuous items that apparently triggered her abandonment issues, and the false and cruel accusations, she didn't deserve the vehemence of my response, and I wasn't strong or mature enough to walk away peaceably.  The difference is that I realize what happened and sought a "T" to help me cope with these issues.  It's taken much pain and introspection and conversations with terrific people, but I can sense tremendous growth mentally and emtionally, and that no I would address issues in an entirely different and more resolved manner than before.  The difference between her and I is that I desperately want to learn and evolve due to my experience dealing with the tumult of BPD, and she will merely continue her destructive patterns as she has refused to seek counseling.

So just because we may have acted emotionally immature, doesn't mean we're trapped there.  The first part is acknowledgment, feeling remorse for your actions, and then the hard work to admit weaknesses and find the tools and emotional/mental structure that will help move you into a healthier framework from which to operate.  One can be too hard themselves for making such mistakes as critical as they were as they likely hurt others such as your ex in the process.  We must realize we if we embrace the lessons presented to us, we are no the same people we were while in or even sometime after the end of the BPD relationship.

Interestingly I think my hero complex can be an asset... .If I visualize my behaviours as a monster within me, then my hero side will try and conquer such demons... .it's a stronger metaphor than merely saying I need to change some bad habits.  Just like notions that tolerance and loylatly are generally perceived as good traits, they may fail you in a BPD relationship, so why not use personality traits that are perceived as unhealthy to garner a positive outcome?

Interesting. This is almost exactly as I behaved except I don't think I felt superior.

I was telling my friend yesterday who warned me repeatedly over the last 6 months to "stay away from her (the ex gf)" that despite all the aggravation and current pain the r/s was probably a blessing because now I know there is some kind of problem in myself that I can work on.

Think about it. If some guy knows their gf is completely crazy, undependable, untrustworthy, with parasitic tendencies, resulting in emotional exhaustion, breakups and recycles despite warning after warning/red flag after red flag - yes that same guy allows it to continue for 18 months, what does that say about the guy?

That guy is me and I have to figure out why I let it happen.  Now I am looking for the "why."

If I had never gone through this experience maybe I would never look for the "why."

In that sense even though I feel like total crap now I am a lucky guy.
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 11:06:39 AM »

"I made the choice to allow myself to go way to fast into a full blow relationship because all the right things were being said... .I robbed myself of truly getting to know the ex." ~zoso80

I can relate a lot to this.  Part of my pattern is going too fast, too soon with significant others.  Yes, I have been emotionally immature.  I've carried internal fears that if she really gets to know me, she will leave, so its 'safer' to establish a sexual connection quickly to form more of a bond (which becomes harder to break), if that makes sense.  This is counter-intuitive to beginning a healthy rs, or that's how I perceive it now.  My ex was very sexual with me from the get go (as I was with her).  I became pre-occupied with that, and we missed getting to know each other on a friendship basis, although we tried later on but it wasn't working.

I can appear confident on the outside, and sometimes I am, but I have also struggled with negative self-esteem.  My approval seeking or codependent tendencies cause me to lose sight of myself and my needs.  The needs of the other become most important.  Feeling like I'm able to 'rescue' the other builds me up (in a temporary, unstable way), and so becomes unhealthy if I do not take time to build up myself.

I grew up in an alcoholic home, which is where I believe I learned much of my behaviors.  I am a recovering alcoholic with many years of sobriety.  I have spent many years looking within myself, so although I obviously still struggle with emotional immaturity, I have and am making progress.  These patterns become ingrained in us, and they cannot be worked out overnight. 

If I'm honest with myself, a lot of my behaviors are very similar to those of pwBPD, but I do not have BPD.  I do have some narcissistic traits and I have alcoholism (which is a complicated illness), although I am sober.  I can use relationships like alcohol, to fill a need, when that need ultimately has to be filled by me and my Higher Power.  I started to feel needy with my uexBPDgf, and she noticed that, and I believe that contributed to some of our problems.  Her pushing me away would trigger my own abandonment fears, and I would begin to feel desperate to keep her and not lose her.  I would feel like I was losing part of myself because I allowed some of my identity to be wrapped up in being her 'white knight' or however you want to look at it.  There's more, but that's enough for now.
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 11:31:05 AM »

I'd hate to say "yes", but "yes".  My own family dynamics are that I'm the scapegoat, and pretty much ignored and/or devalued until needed.  So, yes, I have always wanted a realtionship where I'm loved, valued, and adored for who I am, not just what I can give.  In the end, I've given up so much emotionally, financially, and physically that I'm not sure what I have left.

My husband was charming, seemed caring and responsible, and it seemed as though he cared.  One piece at a time appeared--his kids needed to be "cured", he didn't tell me about the mountain of debt, his mother (until she suffered dementia) was relentless in her criticism of me, etc.  Now that I look back, I shouldn't have been so desparate to take on the mess.  If the mess had been revealed all at once, I'd have run for the hills.
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 11:50:53 AM »

yes. i still have a lot of need to be validated and approved of, from childhood, and even from social relationships stemming back from junior high and high school. i think i look to other people to make me feel good about myself in a lot of ways, and i feel good about myself when i get positive feedback. i mean i guess some of that is just natural and everyone likes positive feedback, but i think i'm a pretty insecure individual. fun stuff  ;p  i think that's a huge reason i thrived on the idealization and was so crushed by the invalidation from the pwBPD in my life.
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 12:47:15 PM »

Excerpt
Yeah, I was.  This might sound weird, but I think I saw myself as superior to my ex because he was so disordered.  I kept thinking he would see how generous and patient I was and appreciate me for it.  Writing this now, the whole idea seems so arrogant I'm ashamed to admit it.  And for his part, what kind of person would want to be with a partner who patronized him like that?  Seriously, what was I thinking ?  Yuck.

I could have written this.  As an example, I spent a lot of time trying to show/teach him how he had such poor boundaries and where he should/could improve in regards to having some decent boundaries for himself,  but in doing so I was exhibiting my own very poor boundaries and was being very controlling and intrusive. If he'd had better boundaries he wouldn't have allowed that for as long as he did. If I'd had better boundaries I wouldn't have been trying to rescue/change another adult, and instead would have been focused on taking care of my OWN boundaries and accepting him for who he IS and not what I wished he would become with my help.  We were both emotinally immature.

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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 02:52:11 PM »

At any given point in time anyone is emotionally immature.  I am sure if you were to ask my ex, assuming she is in her right mind which she rarely is these days, she could tell you times when I was not.  Having said that I went into this relationship in good faith, and she gave every appearance that she was doing the same.  Perhaps she was at one time, there were some red flags but she gave what appeared to be a sincere effort to be working on them for a long time, and as I said at any given point we all have our moments, but at some point in her forties she just imploded.  I do not know if she is BPD, NPD or just a plain down sociopath, but whatever happened to her it caused so much destruction to Me, to our children, our friends, and most of all herself.  In less than two years she went from a middle class well respected, employeed house wife, to an unemployeed, lying, cheating, welfare, queen, drug addict.  I have no reason to believe she will ever come back to reality, and we are in Limted Contact.  But she seems to be trying to reel me back in even though she is with somebody else. 

To answer your question many of us were fooled and conned big time, but that does not make us emotionly immature.   
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 03:06:42 PM »

While I understand this concept, I am probably an exception.

No, I do not think I was personally emotionally immature when I met my uBPDexh. I say this only because I was 14 years old. I think in a lot of ways I was mature for my age, but I was insecure and lacking in love from my dad. Pretty normal, I think, for a 14-year-old girl who's parents were divorced and father absent.

What I feel happened, was that I continued to "grow up" emotionally during the course of our 17 year relationship. I think the dysfunction in the relationship caused this to happen slower than a healthy one would have. I also think for a long time he was very good at mirroring my maturity and doing and saying the "right" things to seem healthy. By the time we hit our 30's, we reached a point where I out grew him emotionally. I became very frustrated that he didn't seem capable of "growing up". I became more and more unhappy with his immature behaviors, and thus our life together. I believe this triggered his abandonment issues and the BPD behaviors resurfaced.
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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 03:16:35 PM »

Yes I was and still am

I'm 38 and act like an 18 year old most of the time. That was hard to admit to myself.

There's a difference between acting child-like and childish.  One is endearing at times and can be embraced as a vivacious spirit of youthful exuberance, and the other showcases an undeveloped side that can be vindictive, insensitive, and wholly disrespectful.
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 03:19:11 PM »

I don't think I was emotionally immature. In fact - I felt like I had no other choice to be the emotionally mature one. If I didn't do it, I am sure that the entire family structure would have collapsed within a year - at the verbal onslaught of my uBPDw.
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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 03:19:48 PM »

The concept of superiority got me introspecting quite a bit today. I believe I was a modified form of this.

I didn't feel superior, I knew going in dxBPDgf had challenges to deal with. I made a deal with her that both her daughter and her would both face their issues (plus therapy if needed) and come out the better for it. I did care to see them both functioning better.

We got through the child getting on a better path, dxBPDgf balked when it was her turn, which offended me greatly.

I operated from the staNPDoint to bring organization to her chaos. It was immature of me to think that I could assist in "fixing" anyone. It also said much of my mindset that I felt rewarded in the notion that I helped "fix" her. I was willing to be a savior. As if it gave me something to validate part of my disappointments with friends and failed relationships past.

Improvement and enlightenment are hard work and require the person taking ownership in their own situation. This finer point was lost due to my emotional idealism.




I was emotionally immature, but in a different way than he was, and I also saw myself as superior to him emotionally/health-wise. I could see how screwed up his reactions and responses to situations were, and the overly-dramatic responses to many minor things, and I saw myself as far healthier than he. So, I was immature in a different way, in that I'd apologize to him for things that I still believe I bore very little responsibility for, just to keep the peace and make him feel better, and just so I didn't have to end the relationships.

I also ignored the red flags and did whatever was necessary to keep the relationship "intact."

My immaturity manifested itself in far different ways, and I'd have to also say more subtle ways. Most people could see/knew how screwed up he was. I don't think others (especially his family) could see how screwed up I was (although I'm sure they thought what the heck is she doing with my ______ (brother, son, uncle, etc).

M

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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2012, 03:28:07 PM »

I was emotionally immature, but in a different way than he was, and I also saw myself as superior to him emotionally/health-wise. I could see how screwed up his reactions and responses to situations were, and the overly-dramatic responses to many minor things, and I saw myself as far healthier than he. So, I was immature in a different way, in that I'd apologize to him for things that I still believe I bore very little responsibility for, just to keep the peace and make him feel better, and just so I didn't have to end the relationships.

I also ignored the red flags and did whatever was necessary to keep the relationship "intact."

My immaturity manifested itself in far different ways, and I'd have to also say more subtle ways. Most people could see/knew how screwed up he was. I don't think others (especially his family) could see how screwed up I was (although I'm sure they thought what the heck is she doing with my ______ (brother, son, uncle, etc).

M

Again, another uncanny parallel to the relationship I had with my ex uBPDgf.  The only difference is that my immaturity manifested when I took her bait and vehemently defended myself after bizarre accusations in a breakup email she sent.  I simply didn't have the composure or resolve to respond properly without inciting and inflaming the situation further... .
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2012, 03:40:59 PM »

I operated from the staNPDoint to bring organization to her chaos. It was immature of me to think that I could assist in "fixing" anyone. It also said much of my mindset that I felt rewarded in the notion that I helped "fix" her. I was willing to be a savior. As if it gave me something to validate part of my disappointments with friends and failed relationships past.

Ok - This was my life, and I did fall into this trap - but is it really emotional immaturity? From my point of view, it was just trying to stay sane in a house full of chaos. I originally just thought that my uBPDw lacked normal communication skills, coupled with no avenues to vent. So when the verbal diarrhea would start, even if not directly at me, I would try and remind her that getting things accomplished is usually better when you don't place people directly into a defensive mode, etc etc. To me - this type of behavior was "broke" - it was completely and utterly destructive and I had never seen anything like it before... .So yes, I tried to help - and yes, it did screw me in the long run... But I am not sure I would label it as emotionally immature... More like trying to help someone who could clearly not cope with reality.
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2012, 04:17:14 PM »

No. I wasn't emotionally immature. I was pretty dang squared away.

I wasn't attracted to any chaos or neediness or whatever "it" is that points to BPD. Just the opposite!  He appeared to be a rock-- stable and mature, secure, nurturing, hard working, intelligent, cool as a cucumber. He's an amazing man (when not dysregulated).

I didn't "choose" to ignore red flags (them are fightin' words) because there were very few if any.  Now that I know about BPD, I can look back and identify some, but he certainly didn't seem screwed up in the slightest.


Now? Now, emotionally I'm in the fetal position sucking my thumb.
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2012, 04:25:14 PM »

Yes I am emotionally immature in that I did not know how to get out of something sooner, and I used buying presents and traveling as a way to try and manage the tension, thinking she was angry all the time because of not having a job.  I also tolerated an angry person for way too long, staying loyal to someone while being bullied and thinking bc I was older I could handle this... .
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2012, 06:08:48 PM »

I will admit to being immature at times with the exBPDgf.  She would bring up all I did that was wrong and expect either an apology or a reason for my behavior!  It's tough to give a reason for your behavior when it's within reason to non-pd's but unreasonable to someone with a disorder.  It's like saying you're sorry for doing nothing wrong.  One of our last conversations was about money and how even though I'd given her 25k over the last twelve months, I lied to her because I wouldn't to give her 5k more in August!  Absolutely in another frequency as I am!
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2012, 06:17:28 PM »

Excerpt
Yeah, I was.  This might sound weird, but I think I saw myself as superior to my ex because he was so disordered.  I kept thinking he would see how generous and patient I was and appreciate me for it.  Writing this now, the whole idea seems so arrogant I'm ashamed to admit it.  And for his part, what kind of person would want to be with a partner who patronized him like that?  Seriously, what was I thinking ?  Yuck.

I could have written this.  As an example, I spent a lot of time trying to show/teach him how he had such poor boundaries and where he should/could improve in regards to having some decent boundaries for himself,  but in doing so I was exhibiting my own very poor boundaries and was being very controlling and intrusive. If he'd had better boundaries he wouldn't have allowed that for as long as he did. If I'd had better boundaries I wouldn't have been trying to rescue/change another adult, and instead would have been focused on taking care of my OWN boundaries and accepting him for who he IS and not what I wished he would become with my help.  We were both emotinally immature.

I could have written both of these. Accepting someone for who they are... those words have such a deeper meaning than I ever realized, than I ever knew. Just the words mean nothing, really understanding what that means and doing that has been challenging. I had such a narrow perspective. Wanted to keep things calm, normal... (control things) for me.
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