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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Anyone worry your replacement will make it work with your ex  (Read 8939 times)
swimjim
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« on: October 28, 2013, 11:50:32 AM »

Does anyone worry that your replacement will make their love last forever with your ex.What if your replacement is able to avoid the devaluation phase. My ex has already moved my replacement into her home after dating just one month. My relationship with her has been over for 10 months now. What keeps me going is knowing it was her illness and not me that broke us up. However, if she has finally found eternal love with the new guy, then maybe I am wrong in thinking she has BPD. 
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 11:55:13 AM »

i dont know if my replacement(s) will make it last with my ex... .i try not to think about that... .its more about what i want and deserve in a relationship... .and she doesnt offer me that.

to relate to you, i know what you mean... .there was one ex whom she gave her apartment key to within a month... .and the last i heard shes in love with this other guy... 26 years old with 2 kids from 2 different moms, but apparently he treats her very well, so all the best to them... .

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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 11:55:56 AM »

Does anyone worry that your replacement will make their love last forever with your ex.What if your replacement is able to avoid the devaluation phase. My ex has already moved my replacement into her home after dating just one month. My relationship with her has been over for 10 months now. What keeps me going is knowing it was her illness and not me that broke us up. However, if she has finally found eternal love with the new guy, then maybe I am wrong in thinking she has BPD. 

Yes. I think about this happening when I am sad. Otherwise I could care less.
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nylonsquid
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 11:58:20 AM »

This is a typical thing I used to think of. The short answer is I don't worry anymore. But the better question is, which would mean you've taken the next step, is if you had another chance would you do it again? My answer is no. She can be with that other person and I wish her the best. She might be happier for a longer time with him but I'm as certain as the sky is blue that she would be the same. Just check her track record. Its a ticking time bomb. Best thing I did was not move in with her because of the signs. I don't even understand how some guys can ignore them. They're all there in the beginning.

A little sad to say but even if she is a bit better I still don't think I would want to live with a cry baby. And not to be insulting but she reminds me of my friend's dog (unfiltered love giver but needs strong boundaries) except he's loyal.
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swimjim
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 12:11:50 PM »

I know it is best not to think about it. I know it is best to focus on ourselves. I find myself asking what this new guy provides her that I couldn't. They are probably still in the honeymoon phase. I lasted 3 years with her so they could go on for a very long time. I didn't live with her but she begged me to marry her only after a few months of dating. If you are living together, doesn't the idealization phase shorten and the devaluation phase come quicker since you are together more?
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 12:12:09 PM »

This is something I think about constantly and I believe it is something that those of us who have had a pwBPD in our lives have thought about on more than one occasion. The one thing that keeps me somewhat sane at this point is thinking about the other relationships she had before me and knowing that many of them ended up the same way. My uBPDexgf actually admitted that after 3 months she feels the same way (aka the honeymoon period is over and devaluation phase begins). The way she described some of the relationships, however, were sugarcoated and I believe that those relationships included some crazy behavior on her part similar to her behavior during our relationship; I did get some nuggets of information from her that should've been  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) but I ignored them. The point is, if her history suggests that she has acted in accordance with particular traits, and she acted that way with you or me, it is very likely that she will act that way again. That is the line of reasoning I use to quell those fears I have of the new relationship working out. Alternatively, I truly believe she was put in my path for a reason (many things that lead up to her and I getting into a relationship support that notion); therefore, my belief in fate and things happening for a reason would have to allow me to accept the fact that if it does work out it's meant to be and our relationship wasn't. Not very comforting, but a reality check indeed.
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swimjim
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 12:22:07 PM »

I don't know much about my BPDexgf history. I know she is 53 and has still never been married. I also know that the father of her child would not marry her and broke up with her when she told him she was pregnant. She admitted to me years ago that she got pregnant on purpose when he thought she was using protection. That was the first red flag that I ignored. I bet she knows better not to share that information with my replacement. I am sure she has fine tuned her skills in hiding red flags with my replacement.
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nylonsquid
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 12:32:32 PM »

I know it is best not to think about it. I know it is best to focus on ourselves. I find myself asking what this new guy provides her that I couldn't. They are probably still in the honeymoon phase. I lasted 3 years with her so they could go on for a very long time. I didn't live with her but she begged me to marry her only after a few months of dating. If you are living together, doesn't the idealization phase shorten and the devaluation phase come quicker since you are together more?

Nothing. He's just another guy that fits a role in her life script. Just a variation of you. I have no experience in the length of living together but wouldn't you want to avoid that? My personal guess is it lasts longer seeing as my exgf couldn't bare having me away from her. She probably would be happy if I was chained in her home knowing I'll be there. So I think it would lengthen the delusion of a happy life. Is it that you want to prolong the good times? Are you seeking an eventual terminal relationship? Borderlines are the greatest ego strokers of all time, and boy would they make you feel grandiose, only to crush you like you are nothing and treat the next person like they are King/Queen.

You should ask yourself whether you want the bad times again because those are just as much a part of the good times. If you answer yes then you should be asking why. 
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maxen
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 12:35:24 PM »

I don't know much about my BPDexgf history. I know she is 53 and has still never been married. I also know that the father of her child would not marry her and broke up with her when she told him she was pregnant. She admitted to me years ago that she got pregnant on purpose when he thought she was using protection. That was the first red flag that I ignored. I bet she knows better not to share that information with my replacement. I am sure she has fine tuned her skills in hiding red flags with my replacement.

wow. mine STBXW is 48, all her relationships, including w/ me, have ended in one of two ways: either the guy got fed up and left, or she started something behind her guy's back (inc. now me - hey, we took a vow and it would be different). i got cold feet when it came time for a family because she was drinking so heavily, so she tried to trick me into pregnancy by doing it when i assumed she was wearing protection, which she later tried to deny. i am sure that she has told none of this, and will tell none of this, to her paramour.

and i still think her new one will work out [insert bang-head-on-wall smilie here]
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Oliolioxenfree
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 01:00:37 PM »




Well Id think about it this way. 

Even when people are not disordered, its extremely difficult and rare for them to do a complete 180 with the person they overlap or replace you with.  Despite all outward appearances on social media and what they may say, they have not processed their feelings.  Instead they have buried them and gone on the rebound, which is unhealthy behavior and does not facilitate a solid healthy emotionally available person for a mature relationship.  And that’s for those who aren’t even disordered.

Now if they ARE disordered the chances of change are even MORE rare.  Not only have they not processed their feelings and gone on the rebound, but know that their pattern will NEVER change.  The idealization/devaluation will cycle on.  All of their victims are different and our timelines may not be identical in our experience of the disordered behavior.  However, there is a pattern and since people don’t change without serious willingness to do it, youll find that the patterns repeat.  Additionally, youll find that the stories of their past partners may be a bit watered down or that they’ve fudged the numbers a bit to paint themselves in a better light and hook you.  Most people don’t say “Well my ex and I broke up because I replaced her with someone new”.  They Also wont paint a clear picture of their past especially if they have a repeated pattern of instability.  But the major signs will be there.

It may or may work out between your BPDex and your replacement.    But just know that if it does its NOT about you.  The pwBPD has not changed, but something about that relationship makes them believe that they can continue with their disordered behavior.   The new person may also ACCEPT their behavior or they may still be in the idealization phase.  Or they may be just as Effed up and ignore the major red flags .  Chances are it’s a combination of all three .  Additionally, sometimes its their own karma coming to roost.   You never really know. But have faith that whatever does happen, you dodged a major bullet.  Because the bottom line and the ONLY thing that should matter is that you were not treated with respect , kindness,love and care.  And you deserve better.  Good, kind people are out there I promise.
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2013, 01:02:07 PM »

After a year of separation and 95% No Contact, my dBPD ex wife and I tried to recycle last spring.  She was amazingly sweet and flirty, attentive and kind... .until... .she found a hot, young biker.  She threw me back in the dung heap and went with him.  That was five months ago and she is pretty much living with him now.  

Alas, they have been fighting, so I hear.  I am No Contact and ask no questions.  But a friend of mine said my ex showed up to drink because of a big fight with "biker boy."  I don't know what the fight was about, who started it... .

I admit, I am relieved to hear there are issues with the new guy.  Selfishly, it helps me move on, knowing that I was not the sole cause of our breakup.  I should know this; all of my ex's other flings ended weirdly. and some even violently.  They may last a while; he is 14 years younger than she.  Her ego is feasting mightily off of his youth.  

I wish I did not give a rat's behind about any of this.  But at least I am aware of where I am in my healing.  Self awareness and motivation to heal are huge factors in getting better.  

Fiddle
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 01:11:02 PM »

Oliolioxenfree, thank you for your wisdom and rational thinking in the midst of our chaos.  I will be re-reading your post again and again.  PATTERNS DO NOT CHANGE without serious effort... .even with "normal" people.  With a bipolar/borderline, such as my ex wife, divine intervention may be needed for her to change her patterns. 

I am exerting great energy for myself to change and grow.  I am doing this with awareness and genuine effort.  And I still fall into my codependent, people-pleasing patterns.  And I am not bipolar/borderline! 

I am beginning to feel compassion for my ex wife and the immense struggle it must be for her to simply survive, let alone grow and change. 

Fiddle
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PhoenixRising15
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 01:14:28 PM »

My greatest fear... .I worked so hard with her to help her see her problems and in the end she claimed she was working on them.

Whether or not that was true, who knows.

I'd just hate to feel like I was the one who helped her get healthy and then some other guy gets the healthy happy relationship I worked 6 months to try to get.

URGH.

I'd like to say I just want her to be happy.  To think, hey, if that was just my place to help her get healthy, then I'm glad.  I helped heal a person.

I'm not there yet, but that's what acceptance would look like for me.

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nylonsquid
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 01:21:58 PM »

Now if they ARE disordered the chances of change are even MORE rare.  Not only have they not processed their feelings and gone on the rebound, but know that their pattern will NEVER change.  The idealization/devaluation will cycle on.  All of their victims are different and our timelines may not be identical in our experience of the disordered behavior.  However, there is a pattern and since people don’t change without serious willingness to do it, youll find that the patterns repeat.  Additionally, youll find that the stories of their past partners may be a bit watered down or that they’ve fudged the numbers a bit to paint themselves in a better light and hook you.  Most people don’t say “Well my ex and I broke up because I replaced her with someone new”.  They Also wont paint a clear picture of their past especially if they have a repeated pattern of instability.  But the major signs will be there.

Well put, Olioli. I know my curiosity made me recycle once to understand everything I have read about borderline behavior after our break up. She was with someone else and this time I was on the other end of things. Surely, everything panned out just as described in the textbooks. She left me because she found someone 'better', and she left him for me in the same way. And I'd bet that I stole her from the previous bf in the same way as well. She'd have some problems in a relationship, find someone who would be a good rebound, then dump the guy. I couldn't even tell whether she was in a relationship or not because she'd keep that away from the public. I'd find out later that even her bestfriends didn't really know much about us which was a shock to me.

Watch out!
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 01:23:51 PM »

It will... .for a while. Maybe quite a while since the new guy won't have the stress of raising kids full time like we did. So the level of relationship will never be that high. It won't, and never will be the close, really intimate relationship she and I had. Because she fixed herself to never have kids again. I told her this, and she knows it. But that is all she can handle. If she/he can handle that, then... .whatever. That will have to be my attitude.

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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 01:28:59 PM »

Now if they ARE disordered the chances of change are even MORE rare.  Not only have they not processed their feelings and gone on the rebound, but know that their pattern will NEVER change.  The idealization/devaluation will cycle on.  All of their victims are different and our timelines may not be identical in our experience of the disordered behavior.  However, there is a pattern and since people don’t change without serious willingness to do it, youll find that the patterns repeat.  Additionally, youll find that the stories of their past partners may be a bit watered down or that they’ve fudged the numbers a bit to paint themselves in a better light and hook you.  Most people don’t say “Well my ex and I broke up because I replaced her with someone new”.  They Also wont paint a clear picture of their past especially if they have a repeated pattern of instability.  But the major signs will be there.

Well put, Olioli. I know my curiosity made me recycle once to understand everything I have read about borderline behavior after our break up. She was with someone else and this time I was on the other end of things. Surely, everything panned out just as described in the textbooks. She left me because she found someone 'better', and she left him for me in the same way. And I'd bet that I stole her from the previous bf in the same way as well. She'd have some problems in a relationship, find someone who would be a good rebound, then dump the guy. I couldn't even tell whether she was in a relationship or not because she'd keep that away from the public. I'd find out later that even her bestfriends didn't really know much about us which was a shock to me.

Watch out!

Mine won't bring any new guy home to her family. Because I am still there, because of our kids, and because they will never accept a replacement for me. I talked to one of her brothers the other day about introducing future paramours to the kids, like stipulating a 1 year relationship timeline before the kids meet him or her. He looked at me and said in his opinion it should be never. Wow. I told him I appreciated his opinion, but that we all need to be realistic about things, also. But it told me instantly what he thought of the whole situation. He's on our kids' side, in no way hers.

BPDex has no idea of how many people she has hurt in what she did... .She only ever brought one guy home to meet her mom, and her mom instantly didn't like him (the opposite of me). I was the only one who ever became part of the family. Now due to our kids, I will likely be the only one ever. Unlike many BPDs people describe here, her fear of marriage means she will likely never get married, just as we didn't... but could have once if I had pushed it and gone to the courthouse (which I know would have triggered the breakdown sooner, she is that pathological about it).
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allweareisallweare
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 02:11:17 PM »

Honestly, as the sky is blue, we shouldn't worry about it - the incontrovertible fact is that they have a mental illness which is surefire to manifest itself within the context of a relationship - how and why would someone else (actually uninitiated to BPD as a concept, and who may not give a tenth of what we have to the fight) suddenly make somebody who is against themselves happy. There is nothing they have over us, nothing. They were selected because of BPD overdrive, the rock which they cling to to avoid a sea of abandonment (which is what we struggle in) and which they will always let go of anyway. How can they honestly slip into the routine of a relationship, which is hard anyway, knowing it's fraudulent and based on BPD impulsiveness and may have no basis on intellectual rational decision/factorised against whether they love this person etc. How can they be happy?

And how can someone else picked so randomly make it suddenly work when we 'failed' - we gave it all, that's why we're here in the family and on the board, because of emotional burnout etc- because we gave it all, in ninety-per-cent of cases we were left for a replacement and rebound who literally served a purpose, ticked a BPD box - just watch out when it fails and they try to go for round 2, that's all I say.

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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 02:51:27 PM »

Fiddle,

“I am beginning to feel compassion for my ex wife and the immense struggle it must be for her to simply survive, let alone grow and change.  “ Once I started realizing this myself I too developed compassion.  I then found that that compassion replaced anger and my own feelings of inadequacy.  I no longer needed validation.  I think a final stage of grief in dating someone with BPD that many don’t acknowledge or mention is the developing of compassion.  Its that final transition to true indifference.

NylonSquid,

“he left me because she found someone 'better', and she left him for me in the same way. And I'd bet that I stole her from the previous bf in the same way as well.”  This was the same for me. Although mine hasn’t left my replacement for me, mostly because we are NC and Quite frankly Id rather light myself on fire than ever be with him again!   But These seem to the pervasive patterns.  Its tough when we don’t get the full story on how the previous relationship was, but 9 times out of ten you can put the pieces together coherently in hindsight.  And a pattern is a pattern is a pattern.  As a person who has strived hard to break my own pattern who is not disordered it has been an immense struggle for me and that’s with concerted effort every single day!

Allweareisallweare

“Honestly, as the sky is blue, we shouldn't worry about it - the incontrovertible fact is that they have a mental illness which is surefire to manifest itself within the context of a relationship - how and why would someone else (actually uninitiated to BPD as a concept, and who may not give a tenth of what we have to the fight) suddenly make somebody who is against themselves happy.”

That is 1000000000% correct.  They were just in the right place at the right time and fit the criteria our BPDexes were looking for.  If it wasn’t them it would’ve been someone else. 

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swimjim
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 03:00:49 PM »

Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. I guess I would feel better about myself if I knew they were at least fighting. That would mean that cracks would start showing in the idealization and it might be the beginning of the end of this phase. Once the fights start, then they multiply because they are not good at compromise and talking things out rationally. I know it is selfish on my part to have an idea if they are starting to fight and things aren't so good between them.  We don't know what goes on between closed doors. It would just be validating to have a sense that he may be struggling like I did. If he is a total doormat, he may pull it off and last much longer than me.
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« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 03:06:00 PM »

Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. I guess I would feel better about myself if I knew they were at least fighting. That would mean that cracks would start showing in the idealization and it might be the beginning of the end of this phase. Once the fights start, then they multiply because they are not good at compromise and talking things out rationally. I know it is selfish on my part to have an idea if they are starting to fight and things aren't so good between them.  We don't know what goes on between closed doors. It would just be validating to have a sense that he may be struggling like I did. If he is a total doormat, he may pull it off and last much longer than me.

Just remember this, in bold. You walked away because you realized it wasn't right for you. Even if they are together forever, the reason may not be that he's a better man than you, but simply that he has much less self-respect. I am with you on wanting to know that they're fighting or that things aren't working out - I feel the same way every day. For me, it appears that my uBPDexgf replaced me with someone who is everything she said she didn't like and didn't want. If taht's true, there's no way the relationship won't hit some rocky patches which will cause the BPD swell to rise. In all honesty though, it's not our business and the faster we forget, the better we will be. I know, easier said than done.
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« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 03:08:32 PM »

I don't know if my exUBPDgf... .

Cheated on me and/or... .

Had a replacement for me... .

After she left me... .

For the second time... .

But... .

The very real fact... .

That she has this disorder... .

And the god awful treatment... .

I endured in 2 rounds of devaluation... .

With the attending discard... .

At the end of each... .

Means... .

That this behavior... .

Will continue regardless.

It is a pattern if behavior... .

That doesn't change.

The BPD is there.

The answer is no... .

To whoever replaces/ed... .

Me.
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« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 03:16:12 PM »

Allweareisallweare

“Honestly, as the sky is blue, we shouldn't worry about it - the incontrovertible fact is that they have a mental illness which is surefire to manifest itself within the context of a relationship - how and why would someone else (actually uninitiated to BPD as a concept, and who may not give a tenth of what we have to the fight) suddenly make somebody who is against themselves happy.”

That is 1000000000% correct.  They were just in the right place at the right time and fit the criteria our BPDexes were looking for.  If it wasn’t them it would’ve been someone else

For a time, I thought I was special, if not for the fact that she chose me to have children with... .but then I remembered what she told me about a previous boyfriend (about 2 years previous to me), that she had unprotected sex with him for 8 months because she desperately wanted a baby with him. It never took (did with me like the first time... .weird sort of destiny?), even though she said the intimacy with him was fantastical, which she never said with me. He left her, then recycled, and left her, of course. But he was basically a kid. She just wanted a baby to attach to, the unconditional, needy love that kids show because they don't know any better. That would have changed as the kid grew older and became more of a real person. That was my childhood. I fear for our son... .at 3, I already see signs of her devaluation of men with him. BPD affects everybody close to them.

To quote Ironmanfalls, I f**king HATE this disorder!
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« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 03:26:22 PM »

Can't say that I really care either way. I have no real desire to see people be miserable. So if her and my replacement work out, I think that would be great. If they don't work out, oh well.

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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 03:29:25 PM »

I think that is why my ex got pregnant. Either to trap the babys father into marriage of to get the unconditional love from the baby to satisfy abandonement issues. Or a combination of both.
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2013, 04:46:58 PM »

what about the person you replaced in her life?

borderlines are unable to make relationships work. that is the nature of the disorder. it is a disorder of intimacy.

so as soon as it gets intimate, it starts to go wrong. by definition.

and there are no exceptions, unless and until the borderline gets into and has been in therapy for at least three years.

b2

 
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »

what about the person you replaced in her life?

I didn't replace anyone... .at least recent. She was two years past a break up with the "love of her life" (he left her), then cycled basically a criminal bf she had a year before she met me, but kicked him to the curb because he was so blatantly bad. When I met her, she was in hermit mode (a typical trait for many BPDs). I did, however, in a way replace that One Guy from two years previous. But she never felt that insane connection with me as she did him (she told me!). That lasted about two years into our relationship until I felt her let that go. So in a way... .I guess she did replace him with me.
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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2013, 05:54:54 PM »

Let me see... .I grew up in a BPD household.  My parents never split, or cheated, etc. but I can tell you there was no love, no kindness, no intimacy between them, just non stop verbal abuse, denigration, and contempt for my father, who stood by and took it all.  My uBPDmother treated him (all of us really) like the dirt under her feet.  It makes me sad for him that in his life he has been treated so poorly, and that he has received so little love from her. I never saw her once make an affectionate gesture towards him (or us for that matter).  It was only totally unprovoked hostility, denigration, mocking, yelling, and in public she would be totally patronizing with him.  So, you shouldn't worry that they'll make it work.  You should feel sorry for whomever they make it work with (if it "works" because that person will be just as lonely and sad as the pwBPD in their lives.
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 06:18:07 PM »

I truly believe they will never be in a happy relationship.  If they find someone similar or a narcissist they MAY last longer than with us but by no means will it be a happy or enriching relationship. 
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2013, 09:23:15 PM »

i use to worry about that but now i worry for the poor guy Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) thats the truth. hes only just starting to see what a BPD r/s will do to a body and soul

GOD be with me and us all
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2013, 09:47:13 PM »

I worry about a lot of things... .the exBPD finding out where I'm working and showing up there or worse, getting a job where I'm at, or showing up at some social function I'm at just as a 'conincidence'... .but I DONT worry about her making it work with the new Mr. X whoever, because deep down, regardless of how I feel towards her or how I felt about her, I know that it won't work out.     you don't mentally torture, emotionally damage, physically threaten, lie, manipulate... .and then turn around with Mr. X and suddenly become mother theresa, it doesn't happen that way.    If the new guy calls to ask me anything someday I will talk to him and give him some words of encouragement when he gets dropped on his skull, because, sheeesh   he is in for one hell of a drop.   
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2013, 10:18:20 PM »

Excerpt
he is 14 years younger than she. Her ego is feasting mightily off of his youth. 

Fiddlestix, I think you think your exes ego is feasting mightily off this 14-years-younger guy. A woman dating a younger man is not the same as a man dating a younger woman, you know, the trophy girlfriend or wife. It's a badge of honor for men to trot out a younger woman, but I don't feel it's the same status envy for a woman to trot out a younger man.

I have had serious, long-term r/s's with men 10 years younger than me and I had a friend-with-benefits who is 14 years younger than me. There is no ego rush in this. To be honest, I was kind of embarrassed when people would comment on the age difference. I just clicked with these guys and loved them for who they were. In fact, I really really want a man in my age range or older. But so far those men haven't shown up.
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« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2013, 10:28:17 PM »

This is a recurring theme on this board.  I think a lot of us worry about this.  That they will have "learned" something or our replacement will "handle" them better or they will love them more or whatever.  We find lots of ways to torture ourselves.  I still can't handle the thought of him being with someone else.  I saw him with another woman recently... .just a girl he was talking to at a bar... .and I thought I was going to throw up.  In any case it sometimes helps to look at the facts, which are their past relationships (including with you).  In the case of my xBF many of them lasted longer than ours (one year) but a year and a half seems to be his average.  And he's 50 years old.  There's really no reason to believe his "future" relationships are going to be any more successful.

I know we "shouldn't care".  But the reality is we're hurting and dealing with the pain of rejection and at this point we do care.  As we heal and move on I think the thought of them being with someone else will become less painful.
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2013, 12:50:39 AM »

Actually I wish my ex-BPDGF the best. I sincerely hope it works for her. BUT IT WON'T! No way! She has been through multi-pul short term & multi-pul long term relationships & they've ALL turned out the same... .When mine would talk to me she'd have a rough/bitter/harsh/mean tone to her voice. And this is when we were getting along (LOL, in so far as 'getting along' goes with a BPD). I'd say; "why does your voice sound so mean when you talk to me". She'd say; "Wow! I don't believe it. My other BF's have always said that to me. What is wrong with YOU guys"... .LOL, yeah, 6 ex's have said this but it's all OUR fault... .   zzz
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2013, 02:07:03 AM »

Does anyone worry that your replacement will make their love last forever with your ex.

In my personal case? NO

I dumped her, so there wasn't a replacement immediately available though I'm sure she sorted through some various options and might be buddy buddy with somebody by now. Will it last? Not likely! Do I care? Nope!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2013, 08:33:36 AM »

This is a recurring theme on this board.  I think a lot of us worry about this.  That they will have "learned" something or our replacement will "handle" them better or they will love them more or whatever.  We find lots of ways to torture ourselves.  I still can't handle the thought of him being with someone else.  I saw him with another woman recently... .just a girl he was talking to at a bar... .and I thought I was going to throw up.  In any case it sometimes helps to look at the facts, which are their past relationships (including with you).  In the case of my xBF many of them lasted longer than ours (one year) but a year and a half seems to be his average.  And he's 50 years old.  There's really no reason to believe his "future" relationships are going to be any more successful.

I know we "shouldn't care".  But the reality is we're hurting and dealing with the pain of rejection and at this point we do care.  As we heal and move on I think the thought of them being with someone else will become less painful.

thank you emelie that was a wise post.

unfortunately - and this is very hard to think about - i saw, before i went NC, that she had changed some of her behaviors, and changed them in the direction that i had begged for during the marriage and which she had refused to change. she's doing/displaying now, in her new relationship, what she stopped doing/displaying for me, and those are the very things that attracted me in the first place. i can react to this in a number of ways: she'd become unhappy with me, and is happy again; she doesn't yet feel intimately close with the new one, and when she does the overwhelming neediness will reassert. but it hurts furiously: she hid what i wanted, and is offering it to someone else.
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2013, 09:11:20 AM »

ps, this post from zoso80 and this thread have been helpful in working it through.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161403.msg1578601#msg1578601

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« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2013, 09:20:48 AM »

This is a question often repeated on this website, and I can understand the desire to KNOW the answer.

BPD is a devastating mental condition... it is not a disorder that turns on and off depending on the partner.  I can say that some relationships can last longer than others, but that is mainly based on what the partner is willing to learn and or put up with.

Either way, you do not need the failure of her next relationship to validate what happened in YOUR relationship.  YOU WERE THERE!

I don't care if my ex ever gets up in the face of his next partner and screams at her or tells her that she doesnt know how to walk right or talk right... .

Wishes bad things for her and say he hopes it happens for her own good... .

That he pathologically lies to her and messes with her head.  It was this way in MY relationship with him, and I WAS THERE.  I have my validation in my own two eyes.

My ex's next relationship and all future relationships will end the same unless he gets some treatment, and I pray to anyone out there that he does.

He is a time bomb... .tick tock, tick tock... .Eventually he will explode again.  

Put the focus on yourself... .Do you want your next relationship to end like your last one, and what can you see in your own self that led you astray?

 Laelle

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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2013, 09:53:53 AM »

She really wanted to marry me so early in the relationship. My gut said there was something wrong because she seemed so desperate to be a Mrs. She had me up on the pedestal. She said I was the perfect one for her. I kind of believed her and she really stroked my ego. But I felt like something was off, not right so I was reluctant to buy her the ring. She became resentful. I guess at that point, we were no longer in the idealization phase. She moved my replacement into her home in a very short time. He may have bought her the ring so she can be the Mrs. that she so desires. My guilt that I wrestle with is that would I have still been dropped on my head if I would have bought her the ring and proposed. The pure hatred she had for me when she split me black was over the top by dating my ex best friend, calling the police on me, and filing the false restraining order. I guess I find myself thinking that my replacement can avoid being split black if he indeed marries her. But then, isn't that when the engulfment fears come to the surface? This illness is so hard to wrap your head around.
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« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2013, 10:11:18 AM »

The pure hatred she had for me when she split me black was over the top by dating my ex best friend, calling the police on me, and filing the false restraining order.

Would you have really wanted to marry someone who said they loved you, but was not willing to wait until the time was right with you?

Would you have really wanted to marry someone who so quickly hated you and then on top of that showed you no compassion or respect for the relationship by running to another man?

Would you have really wanted to marry someone who dated YOUR best friend, called the police and filed a false restraining order?

She did not love you... .you dodged a bullet...   wipe her off the back of your shoes and move on.

 Laelle

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« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2013, 10:23:52 AM »

Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. I guess I would feel better about myself if I knew they were at least fighting. That would mean that cracks would start showing in the idealization and it might be the beginning of the end of this phase. Once the fights start, then they multiply because they are not good at compromise and talking things out rationally. I know it is selfish on my part to have an idea if they are starting to fight and things aren't so good between them.  We don't know what goes on between closed doors. It would just be validating to have a sense that he may be struggling like I did. If he is a total doormat, he may pull it off and last much longer than me.

Answer: yes!

Trust me they are fighting! We know from experience they cannot no matter what you do. My ex once flipped out because I didn't care for a movie! It's only a matter of what triggers the devaluation to start and when. There's a blueprint for their behavior.

It is not selfish really to feel this way. It is normal. We all do. We have been wronged. It is normal to not want someone to create havoc in our lives and walk off into the sunset while we are left freezing in the tundra. Do not shame yourself over this. That is not healthy. Just try not to fester it will fade.

We know that we did all we could and they still did this so the chances are highly unlikely that it will change. If they do it would be only because they finally realized they needed help and you happened to be there when they were getting to rock bottom. Highly Unlikely! If not almost impossible. If they stay together for long it will only because this person tolerates unhealthy behavior and doesn't know about or tolerates the cheating. Remember. It ain't over till it's over!

I'm working hard to not care anymore.
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« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2013, 10:36:38 AM »

I don't care really. I mean if he ends up dating it is only a matter of time. Every woman he had ever been with cheated on him. I wonder why? I withstand so much from him.

I know it won't be long before he latches onto another woman. He said in his letter that he had a few "tests" with woman that are after him but he "kept" his house pure for our love. Uhmmmmm... .interesting. I don't care anymore. It was like that when we were together, it is like that even now that we aren't. The behaviors don't change. They may have more drive but ultimately when you go back the same cycle will come into play.

Like a hot stove, if you touch it... .are you going to repeatedly touch it? Or learn that its hot and it will burn you.

They make you feel that the other person couldn't handle them, or wasn't good enough or was all their fault. It wasn't true love. It wasn't thick and thin. Wow... hunny I went through the flames and back. I got scorched and burnt. Did it do it any good? No. In the end it was a façade (an artificial or deceptive front) dictionary meaning. It is almost best that they go with someone else... .so you can heal in peace. Hugs
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« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2013, 10:42:55 AM »

Maybe its my own narcissism but I thought my ex would never be able to cope without me (I always took care of her and the kids). So that's what I usually said when she took me for granted.

Little did I know that when I could not take it anymore she already had someone waiting.

The reason why I am so confused is that I thought I was the one that did everything to "save" her and just was discarded a month before it ended. The new guy is doing exactly the same and sometimes I am jealous because I am the saving type and tried everything to save her. I have the angst that he WILL be able to save her and I never could.

Is this strange? Next to that he is already integrated in her home and my kids which is the most hard thing to see "happy" family a month after I moved out. Can someone please tell me why? Was she done with me long before it ended? Or how does that work?

I keep blaming myself that it ended (I also got that from my ex because "I" was always  grumpy and moody at the end).

Look forward to your feedback.


Thanks 

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« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2013, 11:13:40 AM »

Maybe its my own narcissism but I thought my ex would never be able to cope without me (I always took care of her and the kids). So that's what I usually said when she took me for granted.

Little did I know that when I could not take it anymore she already had someone waiting.

The reason why I am so confused is that I thought I was the one that did everything to "save" her and just was discarded a month before it ended. The new guy is doing exactly the same and sometimes I am jealous because I am the saving type and tried everything to save her. I have the angst that he WILL be able to save her and I never could.

Is this strange? Next to that he is already integrated in her home and my kids which is the most hard thing to see "happy" family a month after I moved out. Can someone please tell me why? Was she done with me long before it ended? Or how does that work?

I keep blaming myself that it ended (I also got that from my ex because "I" was always  grumpy and moody at the end).

Look forward to your feedback.


Thanks 

I may be wrong, but it does not sound like Narcism, more like Co dependency.  We are enmeshed in a relationship with someone with BPD and their strange behavior.

Of course we would be insecure... .of course this triggers our own abandonment fears... .  "She wont leave me because she can not live without me", was calming your abandonment fears.  Unfortunately, they are tricksy and dont work like we want them to.  They are already trying to bag the next person to empty their emotional drama on, while we are trying to convince ourselves that they are not the type of people that they are...

As far as her moving someone else in with YOUR children so quickly after your separation shows the type of person that she is.  Is that who you want to be with?

Someone who chooses her own pleasure over that of the stability of her children?  As you will continue to be in a coparenting relationship with this woman, it is best to learn the tools taught on the "Staying board"  I would highly advise you to take a peek over there.  Here is a workshop link on communication skills. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=160566.0


As far as was she done with you before it ended?  I would go as far as to say she was gone before you started it.  It is a cycle of abandonment that she is playing over and over again.  You are not the first person that she drove away or left and you wont be the last.  Same movie, different actors.  She has a new co star now, but the ending will be the same.  She can not change the script without getting some therapy and applying it to her life.

 Laelle
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« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2013, 11:27:17 AM »

Thanks Laelle,

It's just a self fullfilling prophecy I guess. Thing is that the new guy is now "protecting" her against me and contact is going really painfull. She does not consult me about anything as soon as the new guy moved in. Before that she called me crying when the kids were too much on her. Now its all peachy and she is projecting on me that I am the parent that can't handle it.  I have to do it all on my own. Which I already did during our relationship but now mr new brings her to work, takes care of the kids etc. etc. It is painfull to see. I wanted her to for once in her life fall flat on her face but no... .

I try to keep the contact to a minimum but what she does is: She texts me a pic of the kids, I respond with nice, what were they upto etc and then no response from her side. It is like she is testing me or something?
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« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2013, 11:51:56 AM »

If our replacement gets the same white knight treatment that we received, don't our ex borderlines come to realize that there may be something wrong with them if every replacement is the most perfect man in the world? It is frustrating that they can't see their own dysfunctional pattern because they repress their feelings.In their eyes, every current guy is the greatest love of their life.
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« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2013, 11:54:31 AM »

If our replacement gets the same white knight treatment that we received, don't our ex borderlines come to realize that there may be something wrong with them if every replacement is the most perfect man in the world? It is frustrating that they can't see their own dysfunctional pattern because they repress their feelings.In their eyes, every current guy is the greatest love of their life.

In bold.

They have a mental disorder... .

That exists... .

To deny the very existence... .

Of the disorder... .

Itself.

That is BPD.

Hell on earth.

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« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2013, 12:01:02 PM »

I may be wrong, but it does not sound like Narcism, more like Co dependency. 

We all are to a certain extent. Most tend to be attracted to Caretakers (in between the devaluing relationships that many of them get into... .mine was in one 8 months before she met me). I started reading this book. Very recent, good and updated so far:

www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama/dp/144222018X

The author lists the standard 9 traits (mine has 7/9 for sure), but she also breaks it down to specific lists of behaviors, better than some other books. Reading those and comparing it to those exhibited by my BPDex was further confirmation that I am not crazy. Nor am I a bad person for coming to the BPD conclusion.
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« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2013, 12:02:28 PM »

If our replacement gets the same white knight treatment that we received, don't our ex borderlines come to realize that there may be something wrong with them if every replacement is the most perfect man in the world? It is frustrating that they can't see their own dysfunctional pattern because they repress their feelings.In their eyes, every current guy is the greatest love of their life.

In bold.

They have a mental disorder... .

That exists... .

To deny the very existence... .

Of the disorder... .

Itself.

That is BPD.

Hell on earth.

Mine knows... .I see her searching. She comes close, then goes off on another tangent. She's even talked about it over the years. It hurts me to not talk to her about anything other than the daily banalities and responsibilities we have now (due to her still living with me). It hurts me to see her hurt, but I need to focus on healing my own pain now. I am sick of devaluing myself.
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« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2013, 12:22:41 PM »

If our replacement gets the same white knight treatment that we received, don't our ex borderlines come to realize that there may be something wrong with them if every replacement is the most perfect man in the world? It is frustrating that they can't see their own dysfunctional pattern because they repress their feelings.In their eyes, every current guy is the greatest love of their life.

In bold.

They have a mental disorder... .

That exists... .

To deny the very existence... .

Of the disorder... .

Itself.

That is BPD.

Hell on earth.

Mine knows... .I see her searching. She comes close, then goes off on another tangent. She's even talked about it over the years. It hurts me to not talk to her about anything other than the daily banalities and responsibilities we have now (due to her still living with me). It hurts me to see her hurt, but I need to focus on healing my own pain now. I am sick of devaluing myself.

In bold/underlined.

That is very important.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2013, 01:07:02 PM »

Thanks Laelle,

It's just a self fullfilling prophecy I guess. Thing is that the new guy is now "protecting" her against me and contact is going really painfull. She does not consult me about anything as soon as the new guy moved in. Before that she called me crying when the kids were too much on her. Now its all peachy and she is projecting on me that I am the parent that can't handle it.  I have to do it all on my own. Which I already did during our relationship but now mr new brings her to work, takes care of the kids etc. etc. It is painfull to see. I wanted her to for once in her life fall flat on her face but no... .

I try to keep the contact to a minimum but what she does is: She texts me a pic of the kids, I respond with nice, what were they upto etc and then no response from her side. It is like she is testing me or something?

Your ex's new guy is still in fantasy land, feeding off all the lies told about you.  Continue to be the great person that you are, practice those communication skills, and run like hell when that relationship breaks up because you may very well become the good guy again.   
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« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2013, 01:23:24 PM »

If our replacement gets the same white knight treatment that we received, don't our ex borderlines come to realize that there may be something wrong with them if every replacement is the most perfect man in the world? It is frustrating that they can't see their own dysfunctional pattern because they repress their feelings.In their eyes, every current guy is the greatest love of their life.

In bold.

They have a mental disorder... .

That exists... .

To deny the very existence... .

Of the disorder... .

Itself.

That is BPD.

Hell on earth.

Mine knows... .I see her searching. She comes close, then goes off on another tangent. She's even talked about it over the years. It hurts me to not talk to her about anything other than the daily banalities and responsibilities we have now (due to her still living with me). It hurts me to see her hurt, but I need to focus on healing my own pain now. I am sick of devaluing myself.

I think that dissociation is the root of all the problems for BPD and ourselves.  When their minds rewrite the way things happen or create things that never happened we are left with nothing.  How can you fight or love something that creates a non reality on an ongoing basis.  Your reality with this person is rewritten by them and it slowly eats their mind up and tears out our hearts.  It creates lies that we can see right through (sometimes unintentional and sometimes to cover themselves) that are often perceived as truths by them.  It is a perpetual cycle of emptiness, frustration and insanity.
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« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2013, 03:53:04 PM »

I truly believe they will never be in a happy relationship.  If they find someone similar or a narcissist they MAY last longer than with us but by no means will it be a happy or enriching relationship. 

My uBPDgf was previously with a hardcore narcissist. It is like mixing a flame thrower and dynamite. I am aware that she mostly told me about all the bad things he did to gain sympathy, but I did investigate him some myself and was able to substantiate alot of it. He was a big, buff, misogynistic, 34 year old married guy (at the time) with two kids and his own business. Everything she told me about him fit the narcissist criteria to a T. He wore daisy dukes and drove around in a BMW with scissor doors for Gods sakes! LOL. He was from the middle east and had his (also very young) American wife shipped off with their two kids to the middle east to have them educated while he was dating my (at the time) 18 year old (now) gf. I believe she was actually 16 when they started dating, but I know I will never get the truth from her. Anyway, I just wanted to paint a picture of this guy.

I have come to the conclusion that they "activate" the absolute worst in each other. From what I can gather from her past (and who knows how much of it is delusional lies) she went way downhill after she became involved with him. He was very controlling and it sounded like they fought very hard. I have researched this dynamic quite a bit and they do tend to form a very strong bond, but it is tumultuous to say the least.

He did an amazing job brainwashing her and I see his influence on her almost daily. Up until recently she wanted to learn Arabic and was very interested in converting to Islam. They have not been together for almost 7 years! She has married, had two kids and divorced, but this guy will always "own" her.

Eleven months ago she visited him behind my back (or so she thought) while I was out of town for work. She supposedly had not seen him in almost 6 years.  She also had her kids with her and she had previously claimed she would never let him around her children because he was so evil. She said she did it on impulse and thinks it was to gain closure. All BS. I have evidence that she planned the visit and what closure do you need after 6 years? Especially since I am supposedly the best thing that has ever happened to her (her words). Hah!

Just writing this makes me realize what an idiot I am for staying. At least I feel better getting it out though. I wish I didn't care for her children as much as I do. I have also realized I have rambled way off topic.

So... .No, they won't make it work with a narcissist. Nor with the replacement - ME!
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« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2013, 05:15:21 PM »

She really wanted to marry me so early in the relationship. My gut said there was something wrong because she seemed so desperate to be a Mrs. She had me up on the pedestal. She said I was the perfect one for her. I kind of believed her and she really stroked my ego. But I felt like something was off, not right so I was reluctant to buy her the ring. She became resentful. I guess at that point, we were no longer in the idealization phase. She moved my replacement into her home in a very short time. He may have bought her the ring so she can be the Mrs. that she so desires. My guilt that I wrestle with is that would I have still been dropped on my head if I would have bought her the ring and proposed. The pure hatred she had for me when she split me black was over the top by dating my ex best friend, calling the police on me, and filing the false restraining order. I guess I find myself thinking that my replacement can avoid being split black if he indeed marries her. But then, isn't that when the engulfment fears come to the surface? This illness is so hard to wrap your head around.

Holy crap! That is almost identical to what I went through... minus the RO. I too was reluctant to marry her because of exactly the same reasons. My gut told me not too. My replacement agreed to marry my ex three weeks after we split (WHILE she was still living in my house). Of course they did not openly announce their engagement until 6 months later, but all of our close friends know it was literally three weeks. They married about a year or so later. From time to time I wonder if they will be able to make it work, but truthfully my ex-friend has got to have a few screws loose too to agree to marry someone after only weeks of dating and after my ex had just ended a 6 year relationship. In our situation, it wasn't a rebound per say, more like an over lap. Either way, their dysfunction will either compliment each other, or WW3 will errupt when it finally comes to a head. You can't have two nut jobs together without some crazy making drama in the process. I'm not gonna lie though, after all the hell both of them put me through, I do hope that they break up... .and that it is EPIC!  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2013, 07:07:29 PM »

I have to say, I swing back and forth on this one. Yesterday I couldn't care less, today, I'm thinking and torturing myself about it.  How do we get out of worrying what they're doing with the replacement?  I don't really want to think about it.  It's like the ultimate devaluation really, and we do it to ourselves with the poison darts sent in our direction, thinking, imagining it's better with the next person, when the fact of the matter is, it's probably not all that different from what we experienced.  It's like it triggers something deep inside. We found someone we thought was special, and we wanted to be special to them too... .but all we get from the BPD is the opposite: We were nothing, we were insignificant, we were the cause of all their problems, and now they found their REAL "special" person.  Ouch ouch ouch. 
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« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2013, 08:10:59 PM »

@unhooking,

i went through those same feelings during my recovery... .they've subsided a great deal and i'm not sure if i envy how her latest relationship is going... .i feel like none of it is real, so what does it matter... .

i also feel like is my peace of mind or happiness going to come from whether she's in a happy or crappy relationship?  if that's the case, that's not right on my part and it's just my mind distracting itself from any real issues i may have.  i should be able to be content on my own - no one is more responsible for the peace of mind and happiness i seek over myself... .sure, someone can add to it, but the foundation is created by me, and the foundation is what is what will survive with me through good times and bad and through anyone that enters and leaves my life... .

i think it was important for me to just get to the point of acceptance of what happened, and that since she is no longer in my life and i won't allow her in my life - i don't care what she does with hers (so long as it doesn't intersect with my life in any way... .i guess i still have more growing to do on that end)

i get what you mean in saying we found someone special... .i really did think she was special and i wanted a life with her... .but then as i think over things clearly, i dont think it was something i would have wanted long-term anyway. i had no independence and wasn't allowed to be my own person... i also would like the ability to be able to think my mind is more deserving of thinking of other things going on in the world rather than just revolve around her 24/7... .

i dont know, i just think life is better without all the chaos... .i remember my ex saying i wasn't worth the stress and all we do is fight... .and i think i can apply that as well - no one is worth having in your life if they bring so much negativity... .it stunts your own personal growth
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« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2013, 09:09:52 PM »

hey fakename,

You're right.  On many fundamental levels, being with a pwBPD means your number one project in life is them. That works if you haven't built yourself into an individual with a well rounded life, friends, hobbies, and passions in life that are not focussed on a single human being who ultimately cannot return what you give, nor allow you to have fulfilling relationships with others in your life.   I was acutely aware that being with my BPDex would have severely limited my life... .only because my ex before him had NPD traits, and successfully pushed me to give up many great things in my life.  I spent four years rebuilding my life, at which point I met my BPDex. He was a mess, at a low point in his life, so at first I considered it as a fun short-term adventure... .but somehow I got hooked and then I didn't recognize myself falling for this guy.  He matches the 9 BPD criteria so perfectly, you'd think he took a look at the DSM and found his identity there.

But I digress... .as you say, perhaps we are simply distracting ourselves from our own issues thinking about the replacement.  I am trying hard to look at my issues, to love and protect myself.  I wish I could take a crash course, become stronger and not feel these weaknesses that make me vulnerable to the manipulation, and where I can be totally indifferent to who it is he's dating today, tomorrow, in two weeks or in ten years.  I'm there some days of the week, but others I'm back wondering whether their 'special' is like our 'special'... .
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« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2013, 10:05:53 PM »

I'm sure that My exBPDexgf has rewritten history and told My replacement that I'm the big bad wolf. His ego is being stroked and he feels like her savior. I remember her telling me at the beginning of our relationship how horrible her daughters father is. This is the horrible guy that she tried to trap into marriage by secretly going off birth control to get pregnant. It is frustrating how they dissociated and repress to protect their fragile sense of self at the cost of our pain.
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« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2013, 01:56:46 PM »

Excerpt
My ex has already moved my replacement into her home after dating just one month

.

Think about the character of the man that moved in after 1 month.
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« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2013, 02:14:09 PM »

I know. And if he considers moving into her house an upgrade from where he came from, then he must have lived in his mother's basement. Her home is very small and modest at best. She even let's him drive her car when she is not working. She has a nicer car. Another way to stroke his ego. I see him driving her car around town on occasion. Yes, it bothers me. I wish she had never moved to my hometown from 3,000 miles away when she was idolizing me. I told her not to because I did not know where our relationship would go and I did not want the burden of her moving all the way out just because of me and not have it work out.
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« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2013, 02:52:44 PM »

I know. And if he considers moving into her house an upgrade from where he came from, then he must have lived in his mother's basement. Her home is very small and modest at best. She even let's him drive her car when she is not working. She has a nicer car. Another way to stroke his ego. I see him driving her car around town on occasion. Yes, it bothers me. I wish she had never moved to my hometown from 3,000 miles away when she was idolizing me. I told her not to because I did not know where our relationship would go and I did not want the burden of her moving all the way out just because of me and not have it work out.

Wow, jim, I had a very similar situation and just like BPD's have similar thought patterns, us "healthy" nons must have the same thought patterns as well. What I mean is, my uBPDexgf was preparing to move to my hometown 1200 miles from where she lived to try to start fresh (we had dated when we were in the same city, but the latest recycle was a LDR). I, too, told her not to move right away because, like you, I thought that if it didn't work out I didn't want her to resent me because of it. I thought, and still think, this was a reasonable concern. However, every time I would bring it up she would lash out at me as not wanting her in my city, she was wrong, but there was no convincing her otherwise even though what I was saying was reasonable. I had no problem traveling back and forth to grow our relationship before one of us made a life-altering decision, especially her, because my job allows me to work pretty much anywhere and I could move around within reason. She didn't have that luxury and, although I live in a major city in which I knew for sure it would work out for her, it might not have worked out for us as a couple, so I was being smart. Luckily for me, she got cold feet (and a replacement) so the move didn't sound as exciting anymore and it never happened. I'm sorry that yours went all the way through with it.
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« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2013, 03:11:47 PM »

I know. And if he considers moving into her house an upgrade from where he came from, then he must have lived in his mother's basement. Her home is very small and modest at best. She even let's him drive her car when she is not working. She has a nicer car. Another way to stroke his ego. I see him driving her car around town on occasion. Yes, it bothers me. I wish she had never moved to my hometown from 3,000 miles away when she was idolizing me. I told her not to because I did not know where our relationship would go and I did not want the burden of her moving all the way out just because of me and not have it work out.

It is amazing that money rarely has anything to do with the decisions that they make in their lives.  I tried to provide my ex with a much better life than she would ever be able to have and it had absolutely NO bearing on any of the poor decisions that she has made.
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« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2013, 03:40:39 PM »

I know. And if he considers moving into her house an upgrade from where he came from, then he must have lived in his mother's basement. Her home is very small and modest at best. She even let's him drive her car when she is not working. She has a nicer car. Another way to stroke his ego. I see him driving her car around town on occasion. Yes, it bothers me. I wish she had never moved to my hometown from 3,000 miles away when she was idolizing me. I told her not to because I did not know where our relationship would go and I did not want the burden of her moving all the way out just because of me and not have it work out.

Wow, jim, I had a very similar situation and just like BPD's have similar thought patterns, us "healthy" nons must have the same thought patterns as well. What I mean is, my uBPDexgf was preparing to move to my hometown 1200 miles from where she lived to try to start fresh (we had dated when we were in the same city, but the latest recycle was a LDR). I, too, told her not to move right away because, like you, I thought that if it didn't work out I didn't want her to resent me because of it. I thought, and still think, this was a reasonable concern. However, every time I would bring it up she would lash out at me as not wanting her in my city, she was wrong, but there was no convincing her otherwise even though what I was saying was reasonable. I had no problem traveling back and forth to grow our relationship before one of us made a life-altering decision, especially her, because my job allows me to work pretty much anywhere and I could move around within reason. She didn't have that luxury and, although I live in a major city in which I knew for sure it would work out for her, it might not have worked out for us as a couple, so I was being smart. Luckily for me, she got cold feet (and a replacement) so the move didn't sound as exciting anymore and it never happened. I'm sorry that yours went all the way through with it.

Idealization not Idolization... .they are two different things.

They idealize you by considering you the best choice for BF/GF.  Everything you do is right for what they see is a good partner.  Kind, loving... etc

Then they start to see that you are not so perfect, that you have flaws.  That you are not the ideal partner, because in their world things are black and white, and you can not be both at the same time.  If you do not live up to their expectations (like have a need or want of your own) while they are dysregulated, you become black.  That is the devaluation.

It is not really you, it is their shame that forces them to react that way.  You are merely an object, an extension of them.  If you are flawed so are they.

They have to turn you black or they do not have the right to exist in their own skin... .They can not exist being black ( CORE trauma), the pain is unbearable, so it must be you.  

You are now evil and a liar.

Since you are now black, they have the right to unload everything they have been feeling, all of their shame, guilt, and the kitchen sink on to you to own.

You will always spend time in the black chair, because they are usually up to no good, and you get blamed for their behavior.

You can be as good as a Saint and it will still never be enough.  They will just say you are weak because you are TOO good.  

Anyone who stays in a relationship with someone who is BPD is forever chasing their own tail.


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« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2013, 03:54:00 PM »

I'm sorry. I meant idealization. I get so frustrated knowing I lived in my hometown my whole life, she moves to my town just 3 1/2 years ago, paints me black and files a false restraining order on me. She wanted me to buy a home with her but I would not budge. Then she bought a home 2 blocks away from my business and 2 miles away from my home. It sickens me to think that if the restraining order would have stuck, I would have had to change my route to my office that I have traveled for the entire past 35 years to avoid going past her house. Now she parades my replacement all over town driving her car knowing I will see them from time to time.
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« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2013, 04:03:29 PM »

Your replacement is chasing his tail... arent you glad it is him and not you?  She will eventually turn him back and devalue him.  It is in her script to do so and without help she will not change.  It has to end in abandonment! 

I am so sorry that you had to suffer so badly by the hand of someone that you love.  I hope that you are now in a position where you do not have to deal with her and crazy making anymore.

You deserve better than that.  You are informed of this illness and you know that she will never change. She did not love you in the same sense that you loved her.

She loved you as far as her needs were concerned.  You were an object for her to dump her emotional garbage on to.

Arent you glad it is him and not you?  Let her parade him around town like a Ken doll.  Barbie will soon begin the same process on him that she did you.

Pick yourself up, wipe the dust from your boots, and move on.  Crazy + Normal will always equal crazy.

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« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2013, 04:16:41 PM »

Very popular thread -- and no surprise, as it's one of the toughest things we deal with, in terms of processing, in the aftermath of any break-up.

If I may: What is the real question here? When we ask, "what if my replacement makes it work with my ex?" what are we trying to learn?

I love my ex. I'd say I loved her, if that were the case -- if, even though I left here, I'd stopped loving her -- but that has never been the case. It still isn't. I'm the first to admit that, if there were a miracle cure for whatever mental illness she suffers with -- I'd take her back in a heartbeat. She was, to me, a magical and beautiful person, and I don't regret any of my time with her, because during it I believe that I was able to get a glimpse of -- and be touched by -- her original soul, her basic human goodness. But, unfortunately, her illness, whatever it is or isn't (she's never been formally dx'd as BPD), prevents her from being able to stay in touch with that goodness on a consistent level, and I need that in a partner. I want that.

Like I said, I love her -- so I want her to be able to work it out with someone, even if it isn't me. She never understood this concept -- whenever we'd have that conversation, no matter how abstract it was, she'd end up feeling like I must not really love her, if I was able to think such a thing, because how could I think it unless I could imagine us being apart? (*boom* -- abandonment fears!)

So, what if the next guy makes it work with her? Why wouldn't we *want* that for our partners? Of course, it stings, because we wanted it so badly with them ourselves, and we can't have it -- either they took it away from us, or we chose to move on. If they left us, don't we deserve to have the relationship we want with someone else? If we chose to leave, we need to ask ourselves, why did we choose to move on? Wasn't it because we'd reached a point where we didn't feel it was going to work, and we had to make a choice? Sometimes, in r-ships that aren't working, the person who is making the most noise about being unhappy is also the person who refuses to make the choice -- so the other party has to. (Though by saying this I think I reveal my caretaker personality... .)

Maybe the real reason we get hung up on this question is because we worry that, if the next person can make it work with our ex, somehow we failed. Did we? How do we know that our exes next r-ship would be any different if it were with us? Maybe the next person is just more suited to their personality?

Good questions, and worth working through, I think. Love the level of honesty and self-questioning that these boards encourage.

e.
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« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2013, 04:33:15 PM »

Hi eyvindr. One of your last statements is my big fear. " If our replacement is more suited to their personality". If that is the case, then that may cause me to feel like I failed. Maybe he marries her and they make it work out. He may be like Abner Kravitz and just tune Gladys out and put up with it. But then, wouldn't her engulfment fears come in and try to push him away?
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« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2013, 04:50:17 PM »

If we love them as much as most on here say they do, wouldn't we want them to be happy?  Idea
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« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »

By the way, my ex married my 'replacement' after dating him for 3 months... at least that is what I heard.  This is her third marriage.  Will they stay together?  I don't know.  Maybe.  Is it any of my business now?  No.  :)id I experience a lot of pain in that relationship?  Oh, hell yes.  :)id I experience joy?  Very much so.  :)oes it hurt to let go?  No doubt.  Keep putting one foot in front of the other.  Life goes on.
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« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2013, 05:36:09 PM »

If we love them as much as most on here say they do, wouldn't we want them to be happy?  Idea

I guess... .mine won't be for a long time, if it possible for her. But then she had kids with me, will never with another due to her fixing that about herself. So maybe she can handle the less responsibility-laden LTR... .that isn't her history though. She is pathological about marriage, as in not believing in it. But she might just make the jump if she meets up with an NPD who can fool her. It won't last for her though, based on all she told me of her past relationships. She either discards them, or they leave her. She hasn't had many. The recent one she had was the medicating one, and she was really off the deep end emotionally with that one, for like a month after I confronted her about it. If I didn\'t know her, I would have been scared. She had the best chance with me, her longest by far... .but then with the BPD, there never really was a chance. I'll always be in her life as an emotional support due to our kids and the devaluations I already see her doing to our son (because he's a male). I'll just have to deal with the fact that I will always be the adult. I need to let stuff go when she gets over her recent shame and guilt (I can feel it in waves... .not directed at me, but at herself), and possibly is able to be in a LTR for like a year or so. I still need to talk to her about introducing new people to our kids. That might be a tough talk. She is letting me lead this for now, in a way, but I know that could change. Her family will never accept any "replacement" of me, though. One all but flat out said that to me (insofar as the kids are concerned, I am not naive to see that our kids are not the focus, as they should be). So any introduction of a new guy won't be pretty. It is sad that she will basically lead a double or triple life for a long time, if not forever.

But that is the BPD, filling different roles and presenting different aspects of themselves depending upon the situation, which is how they define themselves.
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« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2013, 05:50:13 PM »

If we love them as much as most on here say they do, wouldn't we want them to be happy?  Idea

Yes we would. I try and pray daily that my ex finds peace and contentment. I know that it can`t be with me, but who said life was fair! That is the lesson of this disorder!
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« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2013, 05:51:29 PM »

wow, its great to know there are so many of us walking in the same shoes, but no longer on eggshells.       Im on day 7 no contact, and stuggle to keep her out of mind.  Ive successfully resisted replying to her lures, and cant help thinking/ wondering if she has moved on yet.    I hope she has, but feel sorry for the nxt sucker.   However,  during our lightning 2 months together where we were tied to to hip, she was also living as "roomates" with her xbf whom she claimed hadnt been sexually active with over a year... (true, god knows... .)   One night she also brought me to another xbf house without first telling me where we were going.   She had keys to his place and would go "hang out there" while I, and he were working... .  They shared a cat together...   Funny things she left the current xbf she is roomates with to be with the x whose house she took me to.  They lasted 2 years, then she went back to the xbf/roomate she currently lives with.    Makes me dizzy just thinking about all this crap.  So I was a replacement, and I guess she'll just go back to one of them.  HOWEVER I believe im the lucky one in this bizarre triangle, as after 2 months, im running for the hills.  The other two I fear are damaged/abused beyond repair and stuck at her mercy.   God help them.  God help me get over her a.s.a.p.   Thanks for letting me vent.   my baggage
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« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2013, 06:07:31 PM »

I worry and then I remember the trail of amazing beautiful women he has left in his wake (I'd guess 25-30 gf's in his adult life) and am snapped back to reality. If none of them including me could nt "make it work" it's highly unlikely the next poor soul will... .
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« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2013, 06:28:35 PM »

The disorder... .

Guarantees... .

That the next person... .

Will suffer your fate too... .

Unless of course... .

That person... .

Leaves the pwBPD in a similar... .

Cold hearted way.

And if they have re engaged you before... .

They will/most likely come back... .

Re idealizing you.

A pattern of behavior.

That pattern will not change... .

For the next person.

If they were not disordered... .

You would not have experienced... .

That peculiar set of... .

God awful behavior... .

That is... .

Inherently expressed... .

Only onto...

The non... .

Us.

You.

Me.

If they weren't disordered... .

Then maybe you should fear... .

That it would work... .

With the next person.

But the very fact... .

That you... .

Me... .

And all of us... .

Here... .

All experienced... .

Hell on earth... .

In practically... .

The same way... .

Renders the point of it working out... .

With the next person... .

Moot.

The next person... .

Will suffer... .

The rain of fire... .

That you did.

And they will wonder... .

Afterwards... .

Maybe the person... .

Before me(you)... .

Wasn't as bad... .

As I was... .

So told.

They may even seek you out.

Or land here.

The final resting spot... .

Of us... .

The secluded group of survivors... .

Of... .

Hell on earth.


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swimjim
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 262


« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2013, 06:54:03 PM »

If I truly love her, the question is, woulnt I want her to be truly happy. Yes. However, remember, she got law enforcement involved and wanted to destroy My reputation in the community and drag me into a court room under false pretended. What is she would have successful in damaging My reputation? Should I still want her to be happy? I will pray more often to get to that better place in My heart so I will want her to be happy. Right now, I am numb knowing she could have destoyed My reputation. It is easy for certain people to call the police and make false charges and show herself as the victim. She really had me fooled. It will take me a long time to recover from this. My integrity is important to me.
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GreenMango
Retired Staff
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4328



« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2013, 07:01:04 PM »

Staff only

We've reached our 4 page maximum and we have to lock this thread up.  Thank you all for posting.

Here's a workshop that might be of some assistance in this journey:

PERSPECTIVES: Do not allow others to 'rent space' in your 'head'

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