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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Is it possible to stay friends?  (Read 12148 times)
Blimblam
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« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2014, 03:44:33 AM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

I completely agree with this.  I think its possible to be friends if that's as far as things went and you didn't spend too much time with them or get too close attachment wise.  If you remain friends you are just being strung along and used for Triangulation of some sort and their own validation.
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christoff522
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« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2014, 07:21:02 AM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

I completely agree with this.  I think its possible to be friends if that's as far as things went and you didn't spend too much time with them or get too close attachment wise.  If you remain friends you are just being strung along and used for Triangulation of some sort and their own validation.

Friendship with an exBPD would just be a form of devaluement, as far as he/she would be concerned you'd only be there cos you were a creepy weirdo who can't take no for an answer, the BPD would just see themselves as 'humouring' and being 'polite'.

Dependent on the situation at the time it would be a form of self-harm to stick around, you're only ever going to get hurt, smeared, disrespected. Theres always somewhere with in going to be that part of you that wants more. They know that. You don't want to be that 'loser'.
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Infared
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« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2014, 07:59:11 AM »

WOW some great reads here...

John... .

My personal experience would be a resounding "NO!" For me. (I would also like to qualify that I have been able to maintain a friendship after time with nonBPD ex's).

Look, I see now how mentally ill the person is, I have some empathy for that... . BUT I do not see how I can interact with a volatile pathological liar, and maintain any self-love and self-esteem. Again, I have empathy... . but if I see the person (who she presented me), I just have absolutely no respect for her, and I have no idea who she might be at any given moment. After all the lies, cheating, etc., etc., I just have this animalistic instinct to move away from her if approached in public to protect myself (I have gone thru great efforts to cut off all other means of contact).  I got damaged... . and above all, I need to be safe. Call me mean, but I just have no reason to have a conversation with a manipulating, liar who has no sense of her own being for me to connect with on any level. Remember, she doesn't think that there is anything wrong with her? I am not her therapist.

I wish her well. I hope she is OK... . but after the horror I went through, I just need to take care of me... . so I ALWAYS get out of Dodge. I still upsets me... . but I can have no true closure with that situation. Acceptance is key.
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BacknthSaddle
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« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2014, 10:22:10 AM »

Friendship with an exBPD would just be a form of devaluement, as far as he/she would be concerned you'd only be there cos you were a creepy weirdo who can't take no for an answer, the BPD would just see themselves as 'humouring' and being 'polite'.

Dependent on the situation at the time it would be a form of self-harm to stick around, you're only ever going to get hurt, smeared, disrespected. Theres always somewhere with in going to be that part of you that wants more. They know that. You don't want to be that 'loser'.

I haven't heard this interpretation before, but I suspect it is correct.  When my ex and I were trying to be "friends," the number of subtly devaluing comments I got increased by a factor of 10.  I would not contact her at all, but she would contact me and then suggest that she was "being polite," although I was not asking to be contacted. This made the whole situation even more difficult for me emotionally, because as Christof notes, it seemed like I had gone from ex-boyfriend to "creepy weirdo" without doing much of anything, and this provoked all sorts of self-doubt and shame, etc. 

The bottom line is that, as with romantic relationships, her idea of a "friendship" is not the same as mine and most likely will never be.  The kind of relationships she has, friend or otherwise, are not the kind in which I want to be involved.
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blissful_camper
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« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2014, 10:56:50 AM »

Hey JohnThorn... . processing the loss of this relationship is really painful and hard.  Perhaps that is the priority right now. 

Having read some of your other posts, would you say that you currently have a healthy friendship with her that you would like to maintain?  It is really awful to think of losing someone with whom you have such a deep history.  Really awful, and to those of us who have experienced it (and are still experiencing it), it seems like such a needless waste.  But, it is also a needless effort to continue injuring yourself by relating to someone who "has the potential to put you in the ground."  JT, this is not a characteristic of even a "relatively" healthy relationship.

JT, what are some of the feelings that drive you to want to continue to live with such risk and pain?  In my case, I deeply feared the sense of emptiness that would result from losing my ex.  I really, really wanted her and I did not want to face life without that sense of desire.  And, JT, as the relationship began to disintegrate, I started with a T because I was having self destructive thoughts... . all this is to say that you circumstances resonate with me.  I do not ask these questions blindly... . they count and they start to lead to pathways forward.

What is it that feels so comfortable to you about relating to someone who hurts you so terribly?  What are you seeking?  What are you avoiding?  What are you really feeling now?  Right now? 

Thank you for this

You ever look at someone, and no matter what they've done to you, no matter what your feelings for them (based on circumstance and past history) are... . no matter what, you always come back to the love you had for them when you first met?

I met my BPD ex almost 8 years ago.  I was 24.  She was 18.  The way I see it, we were kids.  But the moment I saw her (literally the very first moment)... . I felt like I knew her all my life.  I felt like she was my "other half"... . I fell in love with her in a way that never happened to me before or since.  I can't tell you what it was.  There's something about her eyes, its sensitivity... . but more than that, her face and her aura feel like home base.  I don't feel anchored without her in my life.  I went many years without talking to her.  Long before she was my "ex"... . I cut ties with her many years ago after a brief romantic stint that didn't qualify her as my ex.  I suffered then, but I moved on.  THIS TIME... . I was really with her, and we were very serious.  And I find it unbearable to say goodbye a second and final time.  I don't believe either one of us really preferred being out of the other's life.  I do believe while she has Borderline, and while she's a selfish, delusional person, I still believe she has the capacity to really love.  But I don't believe she has the capacity to be stably good to those she loves.  This is why, maybe only a friendship would do.  I fear without her in my life I will walk around until my dying day with this gigantic hole in my being. 

I think the thing that makes BPD so hard to remove yourself from is two-fold:

I think the people that stand by them are very sensitive to the needs of others, and likely insecure.

And I think there is much about the BPD person that is easy to fall in love with.

However, I cannot for the life of me understand why I was so taken by this girl so fast.  It is very unnatural for me, and it never happened ever again or since.  It was like I felt a spiritual connection never again to be felt.

I don't want to say goodbye :'(

Yes, I understand.  I first met my ex many years ago.  We became best friends, and we went through a lot of challenges to be together. 

We felt like the other's half.  It felt like coming home.  We had a calming effect on each other.  We had a pretty amazing bond, one that neither of us had experienced before.  None of that stopped him from abusing me when we became romantically involved.  I'd never felt so hurt or betrayed. 

I thought that someday we could be friends.  I can't have a friendship with him.  He and I don't share the same core values.  In a friendship, post relationship, he would repeat the abusive behavior.  I would be doing myself (and him) a disservice by having a friendship with him. 

I bolded "calming effect" because that was the thing about us that was so hard to let go.  That ultimately was what I needed to find within myself and provide for myself.  I'm my own best friend.  I needed to come home to myself. 

I know how painful it is.  I never thought in a million years he and I would separate, and not be in each other's lives.  This month last summer I was in the process of extricating myself from the r/s.  I still have much work to do but I'm on the right path.  I no longer doubt my decision to leave him.  I no longer doubt my decision to not engage with him.  I made the right choices, and I'm a stronger and happier person as a result. 

Only you know what's right for you.  Give yourself a chance to explore within yourself what needs nurturing. 
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Blimblam
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« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2014, 02:32:04 PM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

I completely agree with this.  I think its possible to be friends if that's as far as things went and you didn't spend too much time with them or get too close attachment wise.  If you remain friends you are just being strung along and used for Triangulation of some sort and their own validation.

Friendship with an exBPD would just be a form of devaluement, as far as he/she would be concerned you'd only be there cos you were a creepy weirdo who can't take no for an answer, the BPD would just see themselves as 'humouring' and being 'polite'.

Dependent on the situation at the time it would be a form of self-harm to stick around, you're only ever going to get hurt, smeared, disrespected. Theres always somewhere with in going to be that part of you that wants more. They know that. You don't want to be that 'loser'.

Exactly.  This has been my experience and brought me to the brink.  Completely ego shattering. And hurt me more than anything in life. I don't think they have any comprehension of true friendship. I tried to explain what I needed to be friends and about trust and making effort and in her lucid moments she admitted she had no understanding at all of what I was talking about.  She just wanted to be friends out of pity and to use me when I became useful to her.  That is not friendship.  The people she has as friends are narcissists they are not even true friends. In reality she has no friends.  Only a users and hosts to prey upon. 
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Lion Fire
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« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2014, 03:14:23 PM »

From my experience it's not possible in the true sense of friendship. I had a BPDexgf over 10 years ago, I split from her because of the usual chaos. We became kind of friends after a few years when we had both moved on. I found that she was Triangulation at one point when she had hassles with her new love.She told me that she wish she had met me now that she's more evolved as a person. I swerved her cloaked advance. We have sporadic contact but she disappears for ages (up to a year at a time) The last time I saw her, she joined me for a surf and told me she had just got divorced after a 3 month marriage. Of course, her partner had become abusive and was completely at fault   It's a friendship of sorts but of no real depth tbh.

With my latest exBPDgf, I really can't see this happening. She makes the last one look like an angel. She took abuse and projection to a whole new level. I just can't imagine trusting someone who has emotionally and verbally abused me like she has again.

The prognosis is poor. The odds are low that this can be a quality friendship without drama and manipulation.












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BacknthSaddle
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« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2014, 03:31:07 PM »

I tried to explain what I needed to be friends and about trust and making effort and in her lucid moments she admitted she had no understanding at all of what I was talking about.  

I don't think they have any comprehension of true friendship. I tried to explain what I needed to be friends and about trust and making effort and in her lucid moments she admitted she had no understanding at all of what I was talking about. 

I have the feeling that this is the case as well.  As an example: my ex was extremely unreliable, often cancelling at the last minute with me and others.  I, of course, put up with this when I should not have.  But when other friends would express their anger or dissatisfaction with this, she really wasn't capable of understanding why they would be upset.  She thought it was completely unreasonable and became very angry at them for not understanding how difficult the circumstances requiring her to cancel were, etc. 

As for "making effort," I once asked my ex about a friend of hers she hadn't discussed in awhile.  She said "f*** (friend)" which shocked me, and I assumed they'd had a big falling out.  Turns out the problem was that the friend had gotten a new job (i.e. they didn't work together anymore) and had not "reached out" since leaving.  Of course my ex had also not reached out, and when I pointed that out and suggested that maybe her friend felt the same as she did, she was baffled and rejected the idea out of hands.  After our break, she kept saying how important it was to her that we "stay friends" and then wouldn't contact me for weeks.  When I brought this up, she said "you act like it's my job to stay in touch with you."  This was one of those moments that was so incongruous, so alien to my understanding of how people and relationships worked, that I started to realize friendship was not something that was ever going to work with her. 
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Tausk
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« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2014, 03:54:15 PM »

Is it possible to recreationally shoot Heroin?  

For some people maybe yes.  For me, NO!

Do not underestimate that level of damage that "friendship" can inflict.  I thought I could do it, but I was too attached.  It hurt my recovery.  I deepened the betrayal.  I it set me back years.  The safe way is to break contact and focus on ourselves. 

Unless you have kids together or must interact. I have no comment then.
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« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2014, 04:14:17 PM »



This thread has reached its 4-page limit. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread if you'd like.
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