How soon did they start to devalue you for the first time?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

How soon into your relationship did the mask come off and they started to devalue you for the first time? (When did they stop idolizing?)

[Craydar]

How soon into your relationship did the mask come off and they started to devalue you for the first time? (When did they stop idolizing?)

[Craydar]

It's interesting that 50% so far have listed 6 mos. or more. That seems like a long time for the red flags to begin.

[Faith1520]

In my experience the red flags came almost immediately, but I don't remember the devaluation starting until several months in.

[Deeno02]

It's interesting that 50% so far have listed 6 mos. or more. That seems like a long time for the red flags to begin.

Well, you only mentioned being devalued. No red flags with that. Thats straight up when I started slipping from my pedestal, and it was obivious as hell. I noticed something was weird right off the bat in her behavior, but it wasnt directed towards me... .yet. Those were the red flags, but i gave excuses for it. By the time devaluation began, I had been Vulcan mind melded and took it like a puss.

[Pingo]

Yes, I also saw red flags within the first month but chose to ignore them as he made me feel soo good!   It wasn't until about 6 mths in that I started to see that things had changed and he wasn't all he claimed he was... .still took me years to leave though!

[billypilgrim]

It's interesting that 50% so far have listed 6 mos. or more. That seems like a long time for the red flags to begin.

For me it came about a year in.  That was the first real "disagreement" we had.  The first time we weren't "on the same page" as she would always accuse me of being or not being on the same page with her.  Then there were multiple times in which she point blank said, I'm not in love with you anymore.  But yet she stayed and I took my cue, start wooing all over again.  Then the good times appeared again and I was back to being her soul mate.  Rinse repeat.  This cycle probably happened 3-4 times over 6 years.  It's nuts looking back on it.  Why did I marry this person?  

[Craydar]

I stand corrected? Yes red flags don't mean devalued. This poll is for when the idolizing stopped and the devalue began for the first time.

[no_ordinary]

first cheating after 4 months... .

the rest is usual pattern behaviour...

[Earthbayne]

I was going to say... .in hindsight, the red flags popped up IMMEDIATELY. I didn't get devalued until I started seeking something a bit more committed and firm.

We started out as friends and I was essentially the replacement. I thought she was done by the time we started getting romantic, only to find out that it was "done" a month later. And that then she had seen him 3 months into it. So at that time... .it was about 4 months in when I was really devalued. After that, it happened 2 months after. Then maybe 1.5. Then 1... .and the pattern repeats.

[Craydar]

first cheating after 4 months... .

the rest is usual pattern behaviour...

That's interesting that cheating started it all for you. Mine started with a series of cancelled plans and grumpy behavior at month 4. I didn't suspect cheating for at least another month or so. Turns out she was having daytime romps with her married boss even before she met me.

[bungenstein]

How do you define devalued?

My ex always said that I was the perfect man right up until the end, she 'flipped' after we had broken up and I told her to stop trying to bump into me. But she was upset that I didn't pay her enough attention and didn't do enough with her from the start. Rages were prevalent throughout.

[Craydar]

I was going to say... .in hindsight, the red flags popped up IMMEDIATELY. I didn't get devalued until I started seeking something a bit more committed and firm.

We started out as friends and I was essentially the replacement. I thought she was done by the time we started getting romantic, only to find out that it was "done" a month later. And that then she had seen him 3 months into it. So at that time... .it was about 4 months in when I was really devalued. After that, it happened 2 months after. Then maybe 1.5. Then 1... .and the pattern repeats.

Aren't we all "the replacement" to someone else? They can't be alone. And yes the recycles always seem to follow the law of diminishing returns or radioactive half-lives

[Deeno02]

first cheating after 4 months... .

the rest is usual pattern behaviour...

That's interesting that cheating started it all for you. Mine started with a series of cancelled plans and grumpy behavior at month 4. I didn't suspect cheating for at least another month or so. Turns out she was having daytime romps with her married boss even before she met me.

My gf didn't cheat. She just piled on more and more and I couldn't keep up with it. Thus began my downward spiral... .

[no_ordinary]

first cheating after 4 months... .

the rest is usual pattern behaviour...

That's interesting that cheating started it all for you. Mine started with a series of cancelled plans and grumpy behavior at month 4. I didn't suspect cheating for at least another month or so. Turns out she was having daytime romps with her married boss even before she met me.

it started with the obvious facebook flirting with her, after they met... then she cheated and all that i was getting at that time was sad sad, blank look, and sad e mails and texts... .lots of sad smiles, that was soo irritating... .and i couldn't figure out what the hell was happening... .now i know every single little thing... so sad.

[no_ordinary]

My gf didn't cheat. She just piled on more and more and I couldn't keep up with it. Thus began my downward spiral... .

you're lucky. cheating is devastating.

[Craydar]

How do you define devalued?

My ex always said that I was the perfect man right up until the end, she 'flipped' after we had broken up and I told her to stop trying to bump into me. But she was upset that I didn't pay her enough attention and didn't do enough with her from the start. Rages were prevalent throughout.

For this poll I'm saying when the idolizing stopped, the mask came off, and the pedestal was kicked out from under you. I guess it follows a different pattern for each person but I feel that it is a critical juncture in the relationship. Some people are more sensitive or aware of the time than others. Also the pwBPD show their cards in so many different ways.

[hergestridge]

There was immature sulks and stupid stuff right from the start, but I think it was after nine years that I started to become the "problem" for longer periods of time.

This coincided with her acting IMO irresponsibly and erratically when it came to some important issues that affected both our lives.

The first was that she got pregnant and decided to have an abortion and I agreed. When we came to the hospital there was a nurse who tried to talk her out of it, and I got upset. Afterwards she let me know that she felt she didn't have an option, because I was upset, so I killed the baby. Apparently this was the first time in our relationship that I had been even mildly upset (9 years in!), and it left her paralyzed. I think I got up from my chair, took a deep breath and said calmly "Now look, I think we have already talked this thorugh at home, haven't we?". She couldn't handle that. Her sobbing and panicking when she didn't have her way... .that what was I was supposed to handle on an everyday basis.

The second was when I told her to please don't make a fuzz about the working conditions at a workplace where she had a temporary employment. Us paying the rent depended on that job, and the background was that she had hurt her hand slightly. She imagined she was impaired for life and this was because of lacking routines at the workplace. I told her straight to her face that she can't change the routines of a workplace after having been there a few weeks and that she was overreacting to the hand thing (her doctor actually said so too).

This resulted in her first real panic attacks. I had betrayed her. She ended up in the hospital (ambulalce - they suspected astma since she had trouble breathing). Then followed short periods of hypersexuality followed by non-sexuality, painting black in the extreme (the most bizarre accusations). Everything was wrong about me.

It was downhill from the for the next 11 years. Every now and then she would be in love with me and make plans for the future... .then I was the devil again. On the good days we managed to marry, get a kid and buy a house. In between she regretted all this and pestered me about how I didn't live up to my responsibility.

The only good time was her 9 months pregnant. Barely a mean word.

[Pingo]

How do you define devalued?

My ex always said that I was the perfect man right up until the end, she 'flipped' after we had broken up and I told her to stop trying to bump into me. But she was upset that I didn't pay her enough attention and didn't do enough with her from the start. Rages were prevalent throughout.

Mine would have said the same thing, he continued to say 'I love you, you mean more than anything to me, I will never hurt you' but his actions were saying 'you are inadequate, you can never do enough to make me happy, you don't care about my feelings'. 

One day I was in the kitchen cooking while he was on the couch watching football and I had a light bulb moment where I realised everything had changed.  It wasn't the exciting mad love anymore.  He had started to criticise me daily about every little thing.  I felt like I couldn't do anything right.  I remember even saying this to him.  Then the STs and rages began over such insane things, I could never predict what would set him off. 

[Craydar]

By the time devaluation began, I had been Vulcan mind melded and took it like a puss.

It seems that they have an uncanny ability to mind ___ strong men into pussies. I had never been broken down by a woman before. And it wasn't for her looks and certainly not for her brains.  If I lined her up against 10 other women I've dated over the years, she wouldn't stand out at all.

[bungenstein]

How do you define devalued?

My ex always said that I was the perfect man right up until the end, she 'flipped' after we had broken up and I told her to stop trying to bump into me. But she was upset that I didn't pay her enough attention and didn't do enough with her from the start. Rages were prevalent throughout.

For this poll I'm saying when the idolizing stopped, the mask came off, and the pedestal was kicked out from under you. I guess it follows a different pattern for each person but I feel that it is a critical juncture in the relationship. Some people are more sensitive or aware of the time than others. Also the pwBPD show their cards in so many different ways.

Well in that case I was devalued after about 2 weeks, nothing I ever did was good enough, the only thing she didn't devalue me on was my face, she was obsessed with my face, and it seemed to be the only reason she was with me.

She would say stuff like you dont do this enough, or you dont make me feel good, or you dont buy this enough, or accused me of things she would do, but she'd always make a huge fuss of what I looked like, she used to say why would she cheat when she has steak at home? That in itself says a lot, superficiality is the only reason she wouldn't cheat, although she probably did. Even when I was split black and I was the reason she was so miserable.

[Deeno02]

My gf didn't cheat. She just piled on more and more and I couldn't keep up with it. Thus began my downward spiral... .

you're lucky. cheating is devastating.

Yeah, went through that with my wife and a family friend. I have zero luck.

[Lion Fire]

Red flags right from the word go... .The first real eruption from her was after 6 weeks over a silly issue around text messages. I would say the proper devaluation started in earnest after about 6 months. By month 8 I bailed to save my life. 

[fromheeltoheal]

We had a long distance relationship, which are always tough, but if I'm honest I didn't think it would work right from the very beginning.  There's always a chance, but slim, although as I got caught up in the fantasy I chose to ignore my feelings that it would never work.  They didn't go away though, and we didn't talk about it, in our dysfunction, but really I don't blame her for tuning out, any woman would have when she perceives I've got one foot out the door.  I can only attribute part of what went down to the devaluation stage of a personality disorder, and yes it was very much there, and stack it with the other behaviors and I just didn't like her much.  Although I was strangely drawn anyway, definite fuel for growth... .

[RisingSun]

Her first big blowup was about two months in. We got into an argument and she slammed a medicine cabinet door and smashed the mirror.

This started the devaluing. It was like she was testing the waters to see if I would stick around after one of her rages. I did. So, game on!

I'll never forget that first fight and her breaking the glass. I even cleaned up the mess afterward! This was the theme of the entire relationship.

She would make the mess and I'd to my best to clean it up.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, for me it was around the one year mark. It was the night before we were to get married, he was mad at me for something, and he left the house. No explanation, and I got scared. This was totally unlike him. I didn't have a cell phone at the time, and I walked to my nieces to use hers. He didn't answer my calls for an hour, because he'd been on the phone with his son, who was having a crisis. He had to know how scared I'd be, and I wasn't even worth him telling his son "hey, someone is calling, give me one minute, I'll call you right back". I wouldn't have kept him on the phone, I just was scared we were over for good, it was so out of character.

We'd already been having major problems with his three adult daughters, but I thought that would blow over too, that he'd eventually stand up to them, and set a boundary. He never did, and he came to resent and blame me the longer we were together. Three grandbabies were born, and I wasn't allowed around them, still with no reason. They invent slights, and lie, and create drama, just like my husband. Sadly, they are likely personality disordered too.

I guess I was so shocked when the BPD/NPD, possibly even antisocial behaviors started coming out because it didn't truly start until after we'd married. I'd chosen him so carefully, run him by family, we were all fooled. He played victim, and he has physical scars to prove it. I thought our common past issues with being with abusive people was a plus. It couldn't have been more of a lie. Yeah, he was physically abused by his ex, but I'm now sure just how he treated her, and pushed, and pushed her. Frankly, I hope they get back together, because they deserve each other.

I'm shocked that not many took as long as my husband did to show his true colors. I sure wish he'd shown me before I'd married him. It was all a carefully constructed LIE.  :'(

[billypilgrim]

I even cleaned up the mess afterward! This was the theme of the entire relationship.

She would make the mess and I'd to my best to clean it up.

Over and over again this.  She made decisions, I dealt with the consequences.  Sounds miserable phrasing it that way but that's what I thought it took to make it work.  

I even cleaned up to the bitter end.  She walked out and wanted to separate, I didn't.  But guess who does the research and gets the paperwork drawn up and divvies everything up?  This guy.  How does that make any sense whatsoever?  It's like the wheels had come off and I knew I needed to get out.  But I stayed and now I'm the one seeing out what "she wanted."  Whatever she thinks she wants anyway.

It's baffling actually but in hindsight it saved me a lot of financial headache.  I wrote her a check and now I don't have to worry about her changing her mind about what she thinks she "deserves."  

[hergestridge]

She walked out and wanted to separate, I didn't.  But guess who does the research and gets the paperwork drawn up and divvies everything up?  This guy.  How does that make any sense whatsoever?  

My wife left in june. She would "hand me the papers" as regards the divorce and was very confident about how much money she would get out of the house the was rightfully hers.

I meet her twice a week since we have shared custody of our daughter, and she doesn't mention either the divorce or the house. It's starting to become ridiculous and she is clearly waiting for me to take the initiative. I'm not comfortable about doing this since she was the one to leave.

[Ceruleanblue]

BillyPilgrim:

I can relate a lot to what you wrote. I too wanted to stay with my BPD husband, but he decided HE was unhappy, and left. Yeah, of course they are unhappy. They seem to enjoy being unhappy. When there isn't something they are unhappy with, they find something. What they are really unhappy with is themselves. My husband thinks that leaving me is going to be the "answer" to his unhappiness. Funny how his ex had the same complaints, and his four kids didn't even spend Thanksgiving with him, although he left me one week before Thanksgiving, and is living with one of them. Their problems are always due to someone else... .

I hope my BPD husband is as generous with me as you were with your BPD wife. He wanted his freedom, and I'm going to need quite a bit of therapy, and I had insurance through him. You'd think our spouses would have been thankful instead of just running. They mistakenly think someone else will be "easier", or like my husband wants to write it off as "us having too many issues" or incompatibility. Yeah, who can get along with someone who takes so little responsibility, and is always mad... .

[workinprogress]

By the time devaluation began, I had been Vulcan mind melded and took it like a puss.

It seems that they have an uncanny ability to mind ___ strong men into pussies. I had never been broken down by a woman before. And it wasn't for her looks and certainly not for her brains.  If I lined her up against 10 other women I've dated over the years, she wouldn't stand out at all.

Part of me is starting to wonder if they don't hate strong men.  They target them and try to eventually control and destroy them.

Just the other day when we went to the gym, there were some very buffed guys lifting weights, and my wife referred to them as "meatheads."  I don't get it.  I've been working on building more muscle tone and it is very hard work.  Why devalue someone who has obviously accomplished something?

Then again, some of my friends are very accomplished in their professions, she always finds something to devalue them over also.

So, strong successful men, beware!

[workinprogress]

Oh, and I was devalued around the 6 year mark.

Shortly after we met she ditched all of her friends for me.  I felt kind of honored about that.  I didn't ask her to do it, she just did.  Perhaps her friends had dirt on her and she didn't want them to share it with me?

Well, we made it six years, I got her pregnant a couple of times and built a home for her.  Then she got a new set of stay at home mom friends who had really devalued their husbands.  Guess what?  I got knocked off my pedestal and became devalued also.  It truly sucked.

[Infern0]

For me it was 4 months.  We ended up separated for a week because of my work commitments and when I came back everything had changed.

Suddenly she was cancelling every plan we made at the last minute,  barely texting me,  wouldn't talk to me wouldn't discuss anything. Then got with my replacement and started to accuse me of all sorts.  She kept saying she was "confused" and "didn't know what was right" etc.

Funny enough 4 months after she got with the replacement she started to cheat on him with me and telling me all sorts. So it seems 4 months is her limit

[Hawk Ridge]

3 months both times with me.  She's been with my replacement 6 months and started contacting me 2 months into their r/s.  Wonder how that's going for my replacement.  Maybe she's not as passive as me - maybe that's what she respects instead of someone who won't argue.  Who knows!  Can't try to figure it out anymore.  Sorry to sound snarky - working on my resentment but suspect they were communicating online before she left me so I have a lot more work to do.

[Deeno02]

Oh, and I was devalued around the 6 year mark.

Shortly after we met she ditched all of her friends for me.  I felt kind of honored about that.  I didn't ask her to do it, she just did.  Perhaps her friends had dirt on her and she didn't want them to share it with me?

Well, we made it six years, I got her pregnant a couple of times and built a home for her.  Then she got a new set of stay at home mom friends who had really devalued their husbands.  Guess what?  I got knocked off my pedestal and became devalued also.  It truly sucked.

duh, sounds so much like my ex/gf and her toxic neighbor of 14 years... always b___ed about her and her issues, but told her everything, I literally had 2 during the idealization stage and 2 in the devaluation stage... .christ... .

[workinprogress]

Oh, and I was devalued around the 6 year mark.

Shortly after we met she ditched all of her friends for me.  I felt kind of honored about that.  I didn't ask her to do it, she just did.  Perhaps her friends had dirt on her and she didn't want them to share it with me?

Well, we made it six years, I got her pregnant a couple of times and built a home for her.  Then she got a new set of stay at home mom friends who had really devalued their husbands.  Guess what?  I got knocked off my pedestal and became devalued also.  It truly sucked.

duh, sounds so much like my ex/gf and her toxic neighbor of 14 years... always b___ed about her and her issues, but told her everything, I literally had 2 during the idealization stage and 2 in the devaluation stage... .christ... .

I think these people poison other people's relationships on purpose.  I think one woman in the group single-handedly broke up 3 or 4 marriages.

I would hear her tell the wives that their husbands were having an affair if they worked late.  Then, encourage the women to go out drinking without their husbands.

[Inside]

... .I’d say around three months together she'd began letting slip some of the devaluing remarks from her increasing, yet hidden list of dislikes.  Up until then, her discipline was amazing … because when she’d finally begun to let loose with her cutting remarks - the intensity was incredible!

Consequently, our increased distancing was due in part to what I ‘now realized’ she was thinking - and requiring all her energy to hold within... .  Man ... .do I not miss that

[CareTaker]

For this poll I'm saying when the idolizing stopped, the mask came off, and the pedestal was kicked out from under you.

Yip, that sounds about right. The moment you stop worshipping this dysfunctional god, try getting into a normal relationship and need some support. That is when the wheels come off. You not supposed to expect anything in return. You must just be a constant supply to their needs. Unconditionally.

[billypilgrim]

BillyPilgrim:

When there isn't something they are unhappy with, they find something. What they are really unhappy with is themselves. My husband thinks that leaving me is going to be the "answer" to his unhappiness... .Their problems are always due to someone else... .

Yeah, who can get along with someone who takes so little responsibility, and is always mad... .

All of this especially.  I think what is helping me get through this the most is realizing that we had a finite amount of time together starting at day one.  It didn't seem that way at the time but now I know that I was never going to be able to build myself back up on that pedestal.  Each little thing I did that showed her we weren't enmeshed/"on the same page" was a knock against me.  It was always only a matter of time before I did enough things to make her leave (because apparently, I'm the type that doesn't leave - something I've clearly got to figure out).

And even now I wonder, what else does she think is out there?  I know I can't concern myself with this nonsense but jeez the guilt is a B to get rid of.

[billypilgrim]

She walked out and wanted to separate, I didn't.  But guess who does the research and gets the paperwork drawn up and divvies everything up?  This guy.  How does that make any sense whatsoever?  

My wife left in june. She would "hand me the papers" as regards the divorce and was very confident about how much money she would get out of the house the was rightfully hers.

I meet her twice a week since we have shared custody of our daughter, and she doesn't mention either the divorce or the house. It's starting to become ridiculous and she is clearly waiting for me to take the initiative. I'm not comfortable about doing this since she was the one to leave.

Are you hoping for reconciliation? Are you hoping for her to come around?  Believe me, I wasn't comfortable about handling it either.  Sitting in the lawyers office to draw up separation papers for a divorce I didn't want is one of the most surreal and awkward situations I've ever been in.  But at least it ended up giving me peace of mind regarding the house, assets, and finances.  I'm not going to be in financial shambles, at least.

[Deeno02]

Don't shoot me guys. Sometimes I wish I would have an attempted recycle. At least that wouldn't make me feel as sad as I do, where it seemingly is like those 16 months together didn't mean a damn thing. Like I never existed. It hurts. I should, and am,thankful that there's been no contact,but every now and again,I wonder if I'm ever thought of, or mattered.

[Infern0]

Don't shoot me guys. Sometimes I wish I would have an attempted recycle. At least that wouldn't make me feel as sad as I do, where it seemingly is like those 16 months together didn't mean a damn thing. Like I never existed. It hurts. I should, and am,thankful that there's been no contact,but every now and again,I wonder if I'm ever thought of, or mattered.

All recycling does is makes it worse trust me.

My recycle cost me my job,  lost me most of the few friends I had left and has just prolonged my agony.  There's no good can come of it.

[mrshambles]

hergestridge: Its interesting you said your ex was pleasant during her pregnancy. Mine was an absolute angel during hers, and we had problems even before that. I always wondered if all the hormones during the pregnancy that normally affect women and make them unstable, somehow makes them extremely stable.

[Craydar]

Well in that case I was devalued after about 2 weeks, nothing I ever did was good enough, the only thing she didn't devalue me on was my face, she was obsessed with my face, and it seemed to be the only reason she was

That's quick! I don't think I've gone on even a 3rd date with anyone that quickly

[Craydar]

For this poll I'm saying when the idolizing stopped, the mask came off, and the pedestal was kicked out from under you.

Yip, that sounds about right. The moment you stop worshipping this dysfunctional god, try getting into a normal relationship and need some support. That is when the wheels come off. You not supposed to expect anything in return. You must just be a constant supply to their needs. Unconditionally.

Now I feel glad I had a birthday during the idolizing phase. Although she did postpone our celebration bc she couldn't get her ___ together by my b-day. I can't imagine what crap would have happened 2 months later.

[Craydar]

hergestridge: Its interesting you said your ex was pleasant during her pregnancy. Mine was an absolute angel during hers, and we had problems even before that. I always wondered if all the hormones during the pregnancy that normally affect women and make them unstable, somehow makes them extremely stable.

Interesting. Like Ritalin and Adderal (speed) makes people with ADHD focus and settled. I wonder if there have been any studies on hormones and BPD.

[mrshambles]

That would be an interesting study. That was a period that got me waaaaaaaaaaaay in deep emotionally.

[Deeno02]

Don't shoot me guys. Sometimes I wish I would have an attempted recycle. At least that wouldn't make me feel as sad as I do, where it seemingly is like those 16 months together didn't mean a damn thing. Like I never existed. It hurts. I should, and am,thankful that there's been no contact,but every now and again,I wonder if I'm ever thought of, or mattered.

All recycling does is makes it worse trust me.

My recycle cost me my job,  lost me most of the few friends I had left and has just prolonged my agony.  There's no good can come of it.

I know Inferno. Just trying to still make sense of why I could just be totally dumped with no remorse or thought of me at all. It's like I'm dead to her and her kids. No happy birthday, no happy thanksgiving, no how have you been. It's like I was a bookmarker for her. Something that's needed at the time, but once she stopped reading the book, the marker is thrown out or put away.

[Craydar]

Don't shoot me guys. Sometimes I wish I would have an attempted recycle. At least that wouldn't make me feel as sad as I do, where it seemingly is like those 16 months together didn't mean a damn thing. Like I never existed. It hurts. I should, and am,thankful that there's been no contact,but every now and again,I wonder if I'm ever thought of, or mattered.

All recycling does is makes it worse trust me.

My recycle cost me my job,  lost me most of the few friends I had left and has just prolonged my agony.  There's no good can come of it.

I know Inferno. Just trying to still make sense of why I could just be totally dumped with no remorse or thought of me at all. It's like I'm dead to her and her kids. No happy birthday, no happy thanksgiving, no how have you been. It's like I was a bookmarker for her. Something that's needed at the time, but once she stopped reading the book, the marker is thrown out or put away.

Well said! I feel your pain. The same pain. It's unfinished business. No closure. No answers. No regard for us at all. I sometimes wonder if my ex's other casualties have made it onto this board. I'd love to trade notes with them and talk to her ex husband to find out what really happened.

[going places]

The first time I remember him verbalizing his sickness he said: "You are lower than pond scum".

STUPID me... .I stayed. In my defense I was young.

I told him all my hopes and dreams, fears and doubts, goals and aspirations.

He used every fear and doubt I had against me... .not in an 'in your face' kind of way, but in a sneaky on the down low where no one knew he was doing it; but I can now see, what he was doing.

So screwed up.

After 25 years of abuse Lord knows I should know ALL the red flags by now! HA HA

[Craydar]

Turn the poll results sideways and it looks like a well known finger gesture... .Oh the irony.  Just an observation. Lol.

[no_ordinary]

Turn the poll results sideways and it looks like a well known finger gesture... .Oh the irony.  Just an observation. Lol.

our finger gesture to them

[Craydar]

Oh, and I was devalued around the 6 year mark.

Shortly after we met she ditched all of her friends for me.  I felt kind of honored about that.  I didn't ask her to do it, she just did.  Perhaps her friends had dirt on her and she didn't want them to share it

Interesting. Did she ditch or just bench them for a while? I wondered why my UxBPDgf would talk about her friends, but I was rarely able to meet them. And forget her family, I never met any of them. Once the devaluation started she put them back in the game and used them as surrogate soothers.

[hergestridge]

Shortly after we met she ditched all of her friends for me.  I felt kind of honored about that.  I didn't ask her to do it, she just did.  Perhaps her friends had dirt on her and she didn't want them to share it with me?

As an interesting parallel, my exwife lost all of her friends soon after meeting me. Here's why:

As soon as we met she had specific weekdays when we saw eachother. Then she tried to book various friends up on other (specified) recurring weekdays, basically constructing an intricate schedule centered solely around... .her! As friends protested or didn't behave as expected (example: two friends turning up at the same time, friend turning up when I was present), then she would be furious.

It was just a matter of weeks before all friends were gone. To this day (20 years later) my exwife thinks that *all* her friends (like six people!) were jealous of her new boyfriend (me!) and therefore quit turning up.

[Deeno02]

Friends... barely met them. I think like 4 times in 16 months... .

[Craydar]

Friends... barely met them. I think like 4 times in 16 months... .

I had thought this was something unique to me. Very limited access to anyone else in her life. She would talk about them constantly but she kept me separate. I'm not even sure some of them knew who I was.  I did notice that once the idolizing phase was ending, she was reaching out to them more, hanging out with them more, and stopped discussing their lives as much. So my theory is that she turned to he friends for soothing when my perceived 'knight in shining armor' status waned. Did you see a similar pattern? May be worth a separate discussion on this board. 

[Deeno02]

Friends... barely met them. I think like 4 times in 16 months... .

I had thought this was something unique to me. Very limited access to anyone else in her life. She would talk about them constantly but she kept me separate. I'm not even sure some of them knew who I was.  I did notice that once the idolizing phase was ending, she was reaching out to them more, hanging out with them more, and stopped discussing their lives as much. So my theory is that she turned to he friends for soothing when my perceived 'knight in shining armor' status waned. Did you see a similar pattern? May be worth a separate discussion on this board. 

Nah, not really. She had her neighbor hood hens she clucked with and some super ritzy ones from other places she lived (still local though). Funny, when I did met the ritzy ones, they always looked at me and said... ."you better not hurt her, you better take care of her"... .

My main arch enemy was her neighbor of 14 years. Those two were toxic. They would sperately talk ___ about each other,,but would gang up on me or anyone else. Neighbor's husband same as me and probably like my ex/gf's husband... hen pecked, which I would soon become. It was like I was dating 2 girls at the same time because the neighbor lived vicariously through my gf. I think as our r/s soured, I dont think the neighbor helped any, infact she stirred the pot once or twice by making up crap to tell her and I would get yelled at for later.

[billypilgrim]

Friends... barely met them. I think like 4 times in 16 months... .

I did notice that once the idolizing phase was ending, she was reaching out to them more, hanging out with them more, and stopped discussing their lives as much. So my theory is that she turned to he friends for soothing when my perceived 'knight in shining armor' status waned. Did you see a similar pattern? May be worth a separate discussion on this board. 

While I did meet her friends and got to know them to some degree, we definitely spent more time with my friends.  She had many ups and downs with her friends.  I always thought the fall outs were mutual but I really think they just disappointed her in some way so her response was to cut them out for weeks/months/years (her BFF from elementary school.  Cut her our for over a year after she flaked a couple of times for dinner.  Some way to treat your BFF  ).  Her friends, with maybe 1 exception, were very shallow people.  They never met up outside of some big social night out or unless one of them was getting married.  There were no, "hey, come over and hang out" or "let's go see a movie."  It was all nights out/partying.  And the second one of them disappointed, she cut them out.  One of her closest friends got married earlier this year - she had been my ex's maid of honor.  My ex thought that this friend would ask her to be her maid of honor and when she didn't, it was rough.  She was still in the wedding, she just wasn't number one.  And it devastated her.  

Might be worth exploring more on a different thread, as you said.  My ex did this same sort of stuff with family members as well.  And most recently, me

[clydegriffith]

Friends... barely met them. I think like 4 times in 16 months... .

I did notice that once the idolizing phase was ending, she was reaching out to them more, hanging out with them more, and stopped discussing their lives as much. So my theory is that she turned to he friends for soothing when my perceived 'knight in shining armor' status waned. Did you see a similar pattern? May be worth a separate discussion on this board. 

While I did meet her friends and got to know them to some degree, we definitely spent more time with my friends.  She had many ups and downs with her friends.  I always thought the fall outs were mutual but I really think they just disappointed her in some way so her response was to cut them out for weeks/months/years (her BFF from elementary school.  Cut her our for over a year after she flaked a couple of times for dinner.  Some way to treat your BFF  ).  Her friends, with maybe 1 exception, were very shallow people.  They never met up outside of some big social night out or unless one of them was getting married.  There were no, "hey, come over and hang out" or "let's go see a movie."  It was all nights out/partying.  And the second one of them disappointed, she cut them out.  One of her closest friends got married earlier this year - she had been my ex's maid of honor.  My ex thought that this friend would ask her to be her maid of honor and when she didn't, it was rough.  She was still in the wedding, she just wasn't number one.  And it devastated her.  

Might be worth exploring more on a different thread, as you said.  My ex did this same sort of stuff with family members as well.  And most recently, me

I can relate to this. The BPDx had very few friends and she ended up sleeping with one of her few friends' husbands. We also hung out way more with my friends because of this but guess what: she ended up sleeping with a few of them as well.

[Craydar]

Funny, when I did met the ritzy ones, they always looked at me and said... ."you better not hurt her, you better take care of her"... .

Those words sound familiar. I also overheard one of her friends say to her "He's really great, it looks like your life is taking a turn for the better" I'm assuming some of her more stable friends realized how unstable her relationships had been in the past... .another   

[fred6]

Funny, when I did met the ritzy ones, they always looked at me and said... ."you better not hurt her, you better take care of her"... .

Those words sound familiar. I also overheard one of her friends say to her "He's really great, it looks like your life is taking a turn for the better" I'm assuming some of her more stable friends realized how unstable her relationships had been in the past... .another   

After I moved out, I spoke with a few friends that she split black. One said, "oh no, she was so happy with you", another said, "she said that you were so good to her", and yet another said that, "I thought you guys would end up married". She even told me how good I treated her and that it was one of her best relationships. I guess things abruptly change in some peoples minds, ... .

[Deeno02]

Funny, when I did met the ritzy ones, they always looked at me and said... ."you better not hurt her, you better take care of her"... .

Those words sound familiar. I also overheard one of her friends say to her "He's really great, it looks like your life is taking a turn for the better" I'm assuming some of her more stable friends realized how unstable her relationships had been in the past... .another   

After I moved out, I spoke with a few friends that she split black. One said, "oh no, she was so happy with you", another said, "she said that you were so good to her", and yet another said that, "I thought you guys would end up married". She even told me how good I treated her and that it was one of her best relationships. I guess things abruptly change in some peoples minds, ... .

Well, I gave all I could till I could no longer meet her expectations. I tried my best to love her and those kids with all I had. Common theme, I wasnt good enough.

[Craydar]

I always thought the fall outs were mutual but I really think they just disappointed her in some way so her response was to cut them out for weeks/months/years (her BFF from elementary school.  Cut her our for over a year after she flaked a couple of times for dinner.  Some way to treat your BFF  ).  Her friends, with maybe 1 exception, were very shallow people.  They never met up outside of some big social night out or unless one of them was getting married.  There were no, "hey, come over and hang out" or "let's go see a movie."  It was all nights out/partying.

Very similar experience here. Her friends were for the most part shallow, narcissistic people. Many of them were younger. For example, one of her bff's was 27! How can a 42 yrs old get sound objective relationship advice from a haughty, self-absorbed 27 yr old? (one who I never met of course)  .

[Craydar]

Funny, when I did met the ritzy ones, they always looked at me and said... ."you better not hurt her, you better take care of her"... .

Those words sound familiar. I also overheard one of her friends say to her "He's really great, it looks like your life is taking a turn for the better" I'm assuming some of her more stable friends realized how unstable her relationships had been in the past... .another   

After I moved out, I spoke with a few friends that she split black. One said, "oh no, she was so happy with you", another said, "she said that you were so good to her", and yet another said that, "I thought you guys would end up married". She even told me how good I treated her and that it was one of her best relationships. I guess things abruptly change in some peoples minds, ... .

I can't imagine what her friends would say to me, she's probably justified her 'moving on' by telling them how boring or mean or whatever I was. When I asked her why her ex husband left her, she said "oh, he thought I was mean to him"     (silly him)

[fred6]

I always thought the fall outs were mutual but I really think they just disappointed her in some way so her response was to cut them out for weeks/months/years (her BFF from elementary school.  Cut her our for over a year after she flaked a couple of times for dinner.  Some way to treat your BFF  ).  Her friends, with maybe 1 exception, were very shallow people.  They never met up outside of some big social night out or unless one of them was getting married.  There were no, "hey, come over and hang out" or "let's go see a movie."  It was all nights out/partying.

Very similar experience here. Her friends were for the most part shallow, narcissistic people. Many of them were younger. For example, one of her bff's was 27! How can a 42 yrs old get sound objective relationship advice from a haughty, self-absorbed 27 yr old? (one who I never met of course)  .

I'm 42, my ex is 41, and my replacement is 33. I read somewhere that relationships that start with infidelity have a less than 20% chance to succeed. Then add the age gap. Then add her mental baggage. Then add whatever baggage he has. They can't have too good of a chance. Woo hoo, everyone on board, the crazy train is leaving the station.

[Deeno02]

Funny, when I did met the ritzy ones, they always looked at me and said... ."you better not hurt her, you better take care of her"... .

Those words sound familiar. I also overheard one of her friends say to her "He's really great, it looks like your life is taking a turn for the better" I'm assuming some of her more stable friends realized how unstable her relationships had been in the past... .another   

After I moved out, I spoke with a few friends that she split black. One said, "oh no, she was so happy with you", another said, "she said that you were so good to her", and yet another said that, "I thought you guys would end up married". She even told me how good I treated her and that it was one of her best relationships. I guess things abruptly change in some peoples minds, ... .

I can't imagine what her friends would say to me, she's probably justified her 'moving on' by telling them how boring or mean or whatever I was. When I asked her why her ex husband left her, she said "oh, he thought I was mean to him"     (silly him)

I dont have any idea what she told him or her friends. I dont say a word. Shes the one that has to explain why Im here literally one week, new guy there next week.

[Craydar]

Yes, I also saw red flags within the first month but chose to ignore them as he made me feel soo good

I guess looking back at our first date activities sans sex the red flags were ever present:

- she was 45 min late and said she almost didn't make it

- she drank way too much, granted they were strong drinks

- we started making out in the bar

- she txted me right away after the date and asked if I liked her because she didn't think I did

- texted me the next day as if we were already gf/bf

I also ignored them because she was so stinkin cute and fun... .And that's how the devil gets you.

[Pingo]

Yes, I also saw red flags within the first month but chose to ignore them as he made me feel soo good

I guess looking back at our first date activities sans sex the red flags were ever present:

- she was 45 min late and said she almost didn't make it

- she drank way too much, granted they were strong drinks

- we started making out in the bar

- she txted me right away after the date and asked if I liked her because she didn't think I did

- texted me the next day as if we were already gf/bf

I also ignored them because she was so stinkin cute and fun... .And that's how the devil gets you.

Mine was jealousy.  He did not like a male friend I had.  Kept saying his intuition was saying it was more than friendship and that his intuition was rarely wrong.   On our second mth anniversary I had made a little card and put it in his boot so when he left for work he'd find it.  Never heard anything from him for hours and I wondered why he hadn't thanked me for the card.  He finally texted me in a rage bc he had read my text messages on his way out of the house that morning (I was still asleep) and saw this male friend had called me 'pumpkin'... .the term was meant as sarcasm, he was making fun of me about something, joking around.  Didn't matter when I tried to explain this.  It really scared me and since I was already so addicted to him by this point I ended the friendship with the guy to keep my ex happy.  4 yrs later he was still jealous and possessive.  Never changed.

[Xidion]

Yes, I also saw red flags within the first month but chose to ignore them as he made me feel soo good

I guess looking back at our first date activities sans sex the red flags were ever present:

- she was 45 min late and said she almost didn't make it

- she drank way too much, granted they were strong drinks

- we started making out in the bar

- she txted me right away after the date and asked if I liked her because she didn't think I did

- texted me the next day as if we were already gf/bf

I also ignored them because she was so stinkin cute and fun... .And that's how the devil gets you.

Mine was jealousy.  He did not like a male friend I had.  Kept saying his intuition was saying it was more than friendship and that his intuition was rarely wrong.   On our second mth anniversary I had made a little card and put it in his boot so when he left for work he'd find it.  Never heard anything from him for hours and I wondered why he hadn't thanked me for the card.  He finally texted me in a rage bc he had read my text messages on his way out of the house that morning (I was still asleep) and saw this male friend had called me 'pumpkin'... .the term was meant as sarcasm, he was making fun of me about something, joking around.  Didn't matter when I tried to explain this.  It really scared me and since I was already so addicted to him by this point I ended the friendship with the guy to keep my ex happy.  4 yrs later he was still jealous and possessive.  Never changed.

My ex gf was jealous to the point that she would message girls on facebook and ask them if I had been talking to them inappropriately. Then she started talking to guys behind my back and eventually left me after lining someone else up. Go figure.

[Craydar]

Mine was jealousy.  He did not like a male friend I had.  Kept saying his intuition was saying it was more than friendship and that his intuition was rarely wrong.   On our second mth anniversary I had made a little card and put it in his boot so when he left for work he'd find it.  Never heard anything from him for hours and I wondered why he hadn't thanked me for the card.  He finally texted me in a rage bc he had read my text messages on his way out of the house that morning (I was still asleep) and saw this male friend had called me 'pumpkin'... .the term was meant as sarcasm, he was making fun of me about something, joking around.  Didn't matter when I tried to explain this.  It really scared me and since I was already so addicted to him by this point I ended the friendship with the guy to keep my ex happy.  4 yrs later he was still jealous and possessive.  Never changed.

I made several mistakes in my relationship that probably exasperated the problems. I matched her enthusiasm for the relationship, I accused her of going out with other guys but only because she was acting to suspicios and I didn't know about the hot/cold nature of BPD. 

[Deeno02]

In addition to all the verbal, emotional and mental abuse, she developed a strange jealousy of my daughter. Weird.

[billypilgrim]

In addition to all the verbal, emotional and mental abuse, she developed a strange jealousy of my daughter. Weird.

My ex's mother (also BPD) had a strange jealousy of my ex.  Her mother got remarried within a year of me and my ex getting married and from what I understand, her mother will also be going through a divorce now that her daughter is.  It's unreal.  My ex also had a strange jealousy of all of my ex's, even though none were in the picture whatsoever.  We are lucky, despite how crappy it may feel at times.

[Faith1520]

Craydar, my ex was 45 minutes late to our first date, too!.He also texted me afterwards (in the middle of the night after having too much to drink) coming on too strong followed by saying that if it was too much and I didn't want to see him again he would understand (insecurity!   ) Turns out that was my first red flag.

He was running late almost every single time time... .and we're not talking 5-10 minutes, we're talking 20 min to an hour. I finally (kindly) approached him about it, which of course turned into another argument where I was wrong for daring to make a request in the relationship. I'm not the most prompt person, but he made me look good. Is running late a common flaw in p/wBPD?

[downwhim]

Mine was sneaky and lied about the infidelity. Started treating me like crap and unexplained canceled dates. Called me beautiful and told me he loved me one day. The next day he was cold, distant and refused to even kiss me. He then announced if I wanted to see him it was at his house not mine ever again and asked if I wanted to move in. The red flags were flying high by then! He sat on the couch with his arms folded and said he was now going to run his own life and didn't I want out? So many mixed messages... .

[Mutt]

Thanks everyone for participating in this thread. While the topic is worthwhile it has reached it's post limit. The thread is now locked. You are welcome with starting a new thread.