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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: AND... She is back after 2 years.  (Read 7087 times)
wanttoknowmore
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« on: December 28, 2014, 06:03:32 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !
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NonAverageJoe
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 06:10:02 PM »

Perhaps instead of rescuing you could try empowering her to get help.
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Seriously?
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 06:10:31 PM »

This blows my mind. You were not in contact at all during those two years or did you have limited contact?  I hope you can do what you believe is right,  but still protect yourself.
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wanttoknowmore
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 06:28:17 PM »

Trust me... .I was not in contact at all for last 16 months... .totally no contact and even started to feel  fine without her. I never thought she will reappear again.
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Compassion14
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 06:34:10 PM »

Are you prepared to help her and then be unceremoniously dumped once she's no longer in meltdown? Protect yourself please.

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Compassion14
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 06:36:04 PM »

I had the same panic, tears and pleading at my door... .Then the same abuse once his problems were sorted. So horrible to experience.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 06:36:45 PM »

Folks ... .The pattern is pretty clear. These reappearances occur when your name comes up on the rescuer/helper wheel and there isn't a more appealing candidate available. Not because there have been important lessons learned, reflection done, changes made.

My ex reached out in pretty compelling fashion earlier this year. Of course I wanted to think it meant something about how important I was to him.

But when I didn't immediately accept unconditionally his offer of ambiguous re-engagement, he moved immediately on to his more recent ex. Took her for a quick spin around the parking lot before re-injuring her and ditching her again.

Interchangeable relief packaged as a unique love. Very seductive. Very harmful.
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Seriously?
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2014, 06:37:22 PM »

I believe you, and others have shared similar stories. It is just difficult to fathom what compels the reconnect after years have gone by. I only have contact with my husband through court documents. I am not sure how I would react seeing him in person,  especially if I felt he "needed" me. Stay strong and be well.
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jammo1989
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 06:38:44 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

When I was 15 I had a massive crush on my ex back in high school, she knew I liked her but had a long term bf at the time he was 17 at the time, on her last day of high school she asked me to come to the Welsh block with her to say good bye to her Welsh teacher, because she was going into foster care, at that point she grabbed and held my hand, that was the 1st time I had ever had her hold my hand.  8 years later she randomly starts liking pictures on my FB page, I didn't know who it was, because after 8 years you tend to forget, then from out of no where she added me on FB saying hey it's Bonnie!

She had just come out if an 8 year relationship

4 year marriage with 2 kids

3 weeks later she texting me like 60 times a day, I honestly thought it was fate, God brought us together again, and a month into our long lost last encounter we met up had sex on the 1st night and began a 2 year relationship pretty much instantly.

So there you go, it still freaks me out to this day, 8 years and she went searching for that 15 year old boy that had a crush on her in high school.
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2014, 06:40:32 PM »

Well, PatientandClear, you have really summed it up. Thank you.
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jammo1989
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 06:45:12 PM »

Folks ... .The pattern is pretty clear. These reappearances occur when your name comes up on the rescuer/helper wheel and there isn't a more appealing candidate available. Not because there have been important lessons learned, reflection done, changes made.

My ex reached out in pretty compelling fashion earlier this year. Of course I wanted to think it meant something about how important I was to him.

But when I didn't immediately accept unconditionally his offer of ambiguous re-engagement, he moved immediately on to his more recent ex. Took her for a quick spin around the parking lot before re-injuring her and ditching her again.

Interchangeable relief packaged as a unique love. Very seductive. Very harmful.

Would this explain why all of my exes boyfriends have been friends at some point from the distant past?  For example, I was friends with her in high school and my replacement was friends with her back in college many years ago, and to add to this there was zero contact between these 2 life events, it's as if someone has disappeared then get re engaged in her behalf.
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NonAverageJoe
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2014, 06:47:09 PM »

I don't think I'll experience this. I went ham and shot down the projections etc.

So since I'm not a rescuer etc. I'm safe?
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Hope0807
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 06:59:44 PM »

Yeah I'd bet you're safe.  I'm pretty certain I am too.  I tossed the toy box of constantly screaming "help me, help me!" toy babies so hard on his head, it now makes sense that the replacements and war fully surfaced once I tucked away the last shiny bit of my Rescuing cape.  So done, so disgusted.

Mine actually has an endless supply of over 2 thousand followers (and growing daily) on social media who think he's a guru of sorts and worship him.  It's sick and I'm certain there will never be enough vindication for the cruelty he has inflicted on my world.  All I can do is take very good care of me, not even think about him reconnecting, and know full well I'd completely ignore him if he did.     


I don't think I'll experience this. I went ham and shot down the projections etc.

So since I'm not a rescuer etc. I'm safe?

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NonAverageJoe
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2014, 07:04:50 PM »

I'm not expecting any contact but I might get a lash out when she receives the letter from my attorney. I will say nothing.
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wanttoknowmore
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2014, 07:23:41 PM »

I think there are two different types of pwBPDs... .first type: One who break up and then, keep going back to previous r/s .Second type: once they discard... they never look back and always go to new one. I asked a pwBPD... .what makes you go back to an Ex... .Her answer: "Out of all... .whoever treated me and cared about me the most... .I feel like going  back with him."

But, there are the second type who... for whatever reason... never recycle an Ex. Its puzzling to me how conveniently they forget about the bad break up... .may be its too painful to them.so they just bury it deep in their mind... possibly due to extreme shame and guilt.
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NonAverageJoe
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2014, 07:28:06 PM »

My sister and mother are convinced that she will be calling and attempting to "spin me a rose" eventually. I don't think so but the thought scares me. Our breakup was a nightmare, she wouldn't leave me alone at first. Rubbing the rebound in my face and contacting about miscellaneous stuff and then eventually denying she had stuff that she offered and agreed to give back.

I read your story and I'm like do I need to watch my back for that long? She stalked me a little bit at first too.

Mine did communicate with exes but mostly the orbiter stooges.
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hurting300
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2014, 07:32:14 PM »

Two years later... wow. There is hope.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
Infern0
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 07:39:10 PM »

I know mine will be back at some stage.  Especially with the way it went down between us not being too damaging or awful. I'm getting the ol' "active" silent treatment right now which means there is an attachment in place,  she's annoyed that I abandoned even though she had a boyfriend. 

I really hope she gives me long enough so I can fully heal and resist the inevitable recycle attempt.
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downwhim
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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 07:50:41 PM »

Ok, my ex must be a mixed BPD. He reappeared after 18 months the first time we broke up.I dated several people yet he dated no one during our break. He said he felt ashamed how he treated me, thought of me all the time. Unusual for a borderline.

Fast forward. Reconnect - We were together almost a year, got engaged, he bolted with a replacement after he had her all set up less than a year into the reuniting. Said he needed to be himself again and he never wanted to get married in the first place. Believe me there was no pressure from me. No ultimatums. His impulsivity was the reason behind the engagement... .Be careful.  I wish I would not have gotten fooled the second time. It was way too painful.
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hurting300
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2014, 07:54:12 PM »

I know mine will be back at some stage.  Especially with the way it went down between us not being too damaging or awful. I'm getting the ol' "active" silent treatment right now which means there is an attachment in place,  she's annoyed that I abandoned even though she had a boyfriend. 

I really hope she gives me long enough so I can fully heal and resist the inevitable recycle attempt.

mine went down bad. Because I confronted her loudly about all the lies. But she did stalk me which means I'm not totally forgotten.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
pallavirajsinghani
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2014, 10:10:38 PM »

Of course there are ways to help her.  Research about good BPD resources, then when she shares her problems, instead of giving her band aid solutions, direct her to those resources.

No, Thou Shalt Not Offer To Pay For Those Resources... .nor offer transportation, nor offer any place to stay, nor offer anything more.

Thou Shalt Offer the fruits of your research and only that.

Direct her to a list of clinicians who offer DBT therapy.

Then do not follow it up with her as it will take her time to digest the information.

She may or may not follow through with it.  If you ask her, you will be viewed as controlling and therefore, abusive.

If you do not ask her whether or not she has followed through, then you will be viewed as uncaring and unsympathetic.

As with adults who are children emotionally, all you can and should do is show them the way.

If you do not let them walk the walk themselves, then you are not a solution, but part of a problem.

If you want to be part of a solution, then despite your paternal/maternal instincts to the contrary, you have to understand that YOU cannot protect this "helpless injured bird".  This bird needs trained clinician(s) and clinical intervention.

The analogy with a physically injured person is apt... .it should explain to you your own limitations.  You are not a Doctor, nor a Psychiatrist, nor a Counselor... .you are a good person with good intentions.

Understand and accept your limitations.  You cannot have the hubris to cure a person while the person is having a heart attack.  You understand that you need to get this person to the hospital.  Same way, this person's mental disorder is fundamentally ingrained into her brain pathways... .it is a disease of dysphoria.

Your good Samaritan role begins and ends with directing her to trained clinicians.

The End.

It is not cruelty, nor abandonment, nor indifference... .it is simply an admission of your own limited skills.

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Panda39
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2014, 10:29:59 PM »

Of course there are ways to help her.  Research about good BPD resources, then when she shares her problems, instead of giving her band aid solutions, direct her to those resources.

No, Thou Shalt Not Offer To Pay For Those Resources... .nor offer transportation, nor offer any place to stay, nor offer anything more.

Thou Shalt Offer the fruits of your research and only that.

Direct her to a list of clinicians who offer DBT therapy.

Then do not follow it up with her as it will take her time to digest the information.

She may or may not follow through with it.  If you ask her, you will be viewed as controlling and therefore, abusive.

If you do not ask her whether or not she has followed through, then you will be viewed as uncaring and unsympathetic.

As with adults who are children emotionally, all you can and should do is show them the way.

If you do not let them walk the walk themselves, then you are not a solution, but part of a problem.

If you want to be part of a solution, then despite your paternal/maternal instincts to the contrary, you have to understand that YOU cannot protect this "helpless injured bird".  This bird needs trained clinician(s) and clinical intervention.

The analogy with a physically injured person is apt... .it should explain to you your own limitations.  You are not a Doctor, nor a Psychiatrist, nor a Counselor... .you are a good person with good intentions.

Understand and accept your limitations.  You cannot have the hubris to cure a person while the person is having a heart attack.  You understand that you need to get this person to the hospital.  Same way, this person's mental disorder is fundamentally ingrained into her brain pathways... .it is a disease of dysphoria.

Your good Samaritan role begins and ends with directing her to trained clinicians.

The End.

It is not cruelty, nor abandonment, nor indifference... .it is simply an admission of your own limited skills.

Right on the Money... .Awesome... .Thank you!
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Joshuaua

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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2014, 11:20:56 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

i don't know the girl so I won't say for certain but she's likely using you til she's back on her feet and by then you'll be roped in again.  You'll get quickly reminded how ___ty she is when she splits you and you realize they can't be greatful for what you do for them. Mine had come back when I mentioned I could get her a job. She slept with me for a week then she became dilusional thinking I was lying about getting her a job and flipped and left back to her new bf. Silence for the last week since that happened. Woo
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ShakinMyHead
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2014, 12:46:28 AM »

           

               "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a night, teach a man to fish, and you've fed him for a lifetime."



Given what we know about our BPDex's mental state, and how truly sick they are, it's one thing for us to offer kindness & information, it's another to partake in a sexual exchange. Then we are enabling, despite what we have learned. They don't come to us on a recycle from strength. They come always in need of something. Right there we know they are in their disease. I don't envy you. I don't know what I'd do if mine came back crying for help. But, somehow, with all I know now, it feels like i'd be taking advantage of a mentally ill person. Stay close to the boards...   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) SMH
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Trog
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2014, 01:50:29 AM »

I believe you, and others have shared similar stories. It is just difficult to fathom what compels the reconnect after years have gone by. I only have contact with my husband through court documents. I am not sure how I would react seeing him in person,  especially if I felt he "needed" me. Stay strong and be well.

No no no no no no no no NO. Don't do it. My ex reached out to every one of her exes, even those she would spit about and claim were brain damaged the moment things went wrong. She would approach them all via email claiming they were special and trying to reconnect, one after the other, within minutes and when the drama passed and she no longer felt that way she would go back to being abusive. We want to believe we are special, and we are, just not to them. Go to section 6 and read about the honest words from a sufferer of BPD who joined the forums. Look after you.
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Deeno02
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2014, 08:56:47 AM »

Almost 4 and a 1/2 months and not a peep or a sighting. Except for my Instagram screw up, I dont know what shes doing or anything. Which is pretty impressive since I live only 4 blocks or so from her. I believe the replacement is doing his job and for that Im thankful and while they are in their whirlwind honeymoon phase, Im trying to keep my sanity and put as much distance as I can, and god has it been hard.
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FlyingAway
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2014, 12:26:30 PM »

Excerpt
Go to section 6 and read about the honest words from a sufferer of BPD who joined the forums. Look after you.

Trog, Is there any way to provide a link to this post? I would like to read this, and can't find Section 6! Thank you.
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wanttoknowmore
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« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2014, 06:15:35 PM »

Quote from: Joshuaua link=[/quote

i don't know the girl so I won't say for certain but she's likely using you til she's back on her feet and by then you'll be roped in again.  You'll get quickly reminded how ___ty she is when she splits you and you realize they can't be greatful for what you do for them. Mine had come back when I mentioned I could get her a job. She slept with me for a week then she became dilusional thinking I was lying about getting her a job and flipped and left back to her new bf. Silence for the last week since that happened. Woo

Yes... .I know that she is impulsive, unpredictable and sick. I know what she might do when she flips and paint me black. She is begging for me to guide her but she is not ready yet to accept her illness. I am slowly and in caring ,non- judgemental way trying to instil some insight and understanding of her behavior causing problems. If I tell her that she needs a mental health professional... I know... knowing her... she will flee and run in the arms of an abusive, alcoholic man . Well... I have a principle in life... and that is... once I call someone my friend... I do not run away... I try hard to show them the way ... isn't that duty of a friend? Many Mental health professionals suffer from this narcissistic idea that only they can fix it... .whereas a lot of them ... themselves are highly incompetent and  un-empathetic. And, these days many of them suffer from pathological greed and want a lot of money for each session. Some Mental health professionals are very good and know their s*hit... but most are in great hurry to make money and are plain incompetent and unskilled. They have to pay their student loans by the way.
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Panda39
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« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2014, 06:37:07 PM »

Well... I have a principle in life... and that is... once I call someone my friend... I do not run away... I try hard to show them the way ... isn't that duty of a friend?

And this is exactly why she's back. She will use that against you.
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NonAverageJoe
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« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2014, 06:46:36 PM »

I was posting in this thread just yesterday about never getting my stuff back etc.

I almost walked into a recycle or a triangle etc.

I went through her phone as we laid in bed and discovered the truth. What I did was inappropriate but the reality of it saved me from more pain, shame etc.

Point her in a good direction, tell her that forgiving herself is tantamount to finding forgiveness from others and that she must only seek unattached guides as teachers for this journey.

You love her, you can't fix her.
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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2014, 04:36:36 AM »

Panda is right, any good-hearted intentions or acts of good will , will unfortunately be used against you, because Bpds have no heart, at least one that functions with any human decency anyway.   Maybe you will be best served by visiting on the Staying boards.    Best of luck.
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parisian
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2014, 06:39:07 AM »

Excerpt
Go to section 6 and read about the honest words from a sufferer of BPD who joined the forums. Look after you.

Trog, Is there any way to provide a link to this post? I would like to read this, and can't find Section 6! Thank you.

Yes Trog, I'm interested in this post too, but can't find it.
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2014, 06:56:05 AM »

Excerpt
Go to section 6 and read about the honest words from a sufferer of BPD who joined the forums. Look after you.

Trog, Is there any way to provide a link to this post? I would like to read this, and can't find Section 6! Thank you.

Yes Trog, I'm interested in this post too, but can't find it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238810.0

Seriously worth reading.
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Aussie JJ
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2014, 07:09:22 AM »

Excerpt
Go to section 6 and read about the honest words from a sufferer of BPD who joined the forums. Look after you.

Trog, Is there any way to provide a link to this post? I would like to read this, and can't find Section 6! Thank you.

Yes Trog, I'm interested in this post too, but can't find it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238810.0

Seriously worth reading.

If you do read, dont flame.  Just a heads up, someone gaiing self awareness and being open with issues they are facing is to be applauded. 


AJJ. 
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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2014, 07:17:05 AM »

"I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you."

Did you notice how she lies and takes no responsibility for the way she treated you?

Do you love you?

Why would you want to continue any relationship with a self-centered person who just uses and abuses whoever is in her path... .always the needy victim.   

Save yourself. RUN!
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« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2014, 07:51:32 AM »

Excerpt
Go to section 6 and read about the honest words from a sufferer of BPD who joined the forums. Look after you.

Trog, Is there any way to provide a link to this post? I would like to read this, and can't find Section 6! Thank you.

Yes Trog, I'm interested in this post too, but can't find it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238810.0

Seriously worth reading.

If you do read, dont flame.  Just a heads up, someone gaiing self awareness and being open with issues they are facing is to be applauded. 


AJJ. 

Kudos to her.
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »

I really don't know what to say about this.

I didn't hear from my wife since the day she left, like i never existed.

Still, I miss her everyday, She never told me why she left. She never ever responded to any email.

Now i read you story. I am dreaming of her return. I will talk alot with her whenever she would like to return.

Talk... .talk... .talk. I suggest you do the same now you have a chance.

Love can be unconditional, that makes us vulnerable, but good human beings also.

Jos
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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 11:42:13 AM »

"I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you."

Did you notice how she lies and takes no responsibility for the way she treated you?

Do you love you?

Why would you want to continue any relationship with a self-centered person who just uses and abuses whoever is in her path... .always the needy victim.   

Save yourself. RUN!

amen to that .
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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2014, 11:51:01 AM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.
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« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2014, 03:28:20 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.

it's been nine months for me, I don't think I'll never see her or my baby again. All I've gotten is some drive by's.
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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 03:57:38 PM »

I think there are two different types of pwBPDs... .first type: One who break up and then, keep going back to previous r/s .Second type: once they discard... they never look back and always go to new one. I asked a pwBPD... .what makes you go back to an Ex... .Her answer: "Out of all... .whoever treated me and cared about me the most... .I feel like going  back with him."

But, there are the second type who... for whatever reason... never recycle an Ex. Its puzzling to me how conveniently they forget about the bad break up... .may be its too painful to them.so they just bury it deep in their mind... possibly due to extreme shame and guilt.

I think my exBPDgf is the second type... .and what you said is true, I think - the shame over the pain they cause to the people they love is so intense that they choose to bury it. The last time I saw my ex she couldn't even look me in the eye.  In my opinion, that kind of coping strategy makes people increasingly unstable over time... .and maybe it's why pwBPD's sometimes become more "hermit like" as they get older... .who knows... .

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« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2014, 05:01:28 PM »

Well... I have a principle in life... and that is... once I call someone my friend... I do not run away... I try hard to show them the way ... isn't that duty of a friend?



Of course my dear, that's exactly what you should do:   is show her the way.



Many Mental health professionals suffer from this narcissistic idea that only they can fix it... .whereas a lot of them ... themselves are highly incompetent and  un-empathetic. And, these days many of them suffer from pathological greed and want a lot of money for each session. Some Mental health professionals are very good and know their s*hit... but most are in great hurry to make money and are plain incompetent and unskilled. They have to pay their student loans by the way.



Yes, many... .but not all.

Greed is reflected in many ways.  Some are greedy for money to pay their student loans off, some are incompetent and unskilled

and then there are good people like you who may be greedy for love and adoration from a drowning sad person who is in need of a rescue. 

Greed manifests itself in many ways.  We always want to carve out for ourselves a larger area of influence.  It feeds our sense of self.  Be careful, please do not let get yourself injured morally by your own hand.

For one of you are holding the knife and the other one is the energy behind the knife... .either one of you or both are on the path to be hurt.

Many mental health professionals may be bad... .can you say categorically that you can do better?
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« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2014, 07:20:39 PM »

No... .I can not do better... I am sure.   I think I went overboard criticizing Mental health professionals... .I really meant some of them.  Its really hard to be not be greedy for love as it probably fulfills a deep need to be loved and admired. Also, the feeling that your effort did help someone somewhat. I think that's why a lot of people share ,guide and advise other members on these boards. We can call this greed for the need to be useful and helpful. In that sense, all people in helping professions, police, fire fighters, teachers ... probably all suffer from this greed to give and receive love and adoration ... .by helping others. Helping others or trying to help someone is not a sin in my Bible. Only question is how to help correctly... .and that may include "showing her the way" as you indicated.
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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2014, 07:28:09 PM »

^^^ Are you then, deep down, helping her more for her or for yourself?

Showing her the way is fine, knowing she takes those steps herself. Or not.

Maybe, deep down, you're still hoping that she will show you the way?
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« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2014, 07:49:00 PM »

I don't understand your poetic way of asking this. I guess you are asking helping her for myself or for her?  At this point ... i think I just want her to get better and live her life happily without  having any contact with me in the future. I don't need anything from her. She contacted me after 2 years and I could not NOT answer... .for whatever reason.
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« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2014, 07:52:04 PM »

I don't understand your poetic way of asking this. I guess you are asking helping her for myself or for her?  At this point ... i think I just want her to get better and live her life happily without  having any contact with me in the future. I don't need anything from her. She contacted me after 2 years and I could not NOT answer... .for whatever reason.

I feel you.
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« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2014, 09:29:26 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.

it's been nine months for me, I don't think I'll never see her or my baby again. All I've gotten is some drive by's.

I got the drive-byes, too... .That is THE most self-centered nonsense I have ever had to endure.  No intention of taking any responsibility for harms and abuse and abandonment of our relationship... .just selfishly wallowing in HER emotional needs after abandoning me.   Nothing more... .I talked to her once and she was smug and abusive.  If she cared about my feelings... she would not be driving by my house... .If she cared about the new guy she was sleeping with every night she would not be driving by my house... total wallowing self-indulgence and control.  She was probably putting it out there to others, no doubt.  Nothing approaching any kind of "healthy" love there.  That is what I experienced.  

I would love to tell you that there was something there for me to work with and still have a shred of self-esteem... .but there just wasn't.
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« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2014, 09:55:46 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.

it's been nine months for me, I don't think I'll never see her or my baby again. All I've gotten is some drive by's.

I got the drive-byes, too... .That is THE most self-centered nonsense I have ever had to endure.  No intention of taking any responsibility for harms and abuse and abandonment of our relationship... .just selfishly wallowing in HER emotional needs after abandoning me.   Nothing more... .I talked to her once and she was smug and abusive.  If she cared about my feelings... she would not be driving by my house... .If she cared about the new guy she was sleeping with every night she would not be driving by my house... total wallowing self-indulgence and control.  She was probably putting it out there to others, no doubt.  Nothing approaching any kind of "healthy" love there.  That is what I experienced.  

I would love to tell you that there was something there for me to work with and still have a shred of self-esteem... .but there just wasn't.

why would they do the drive by thing? They left us
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« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2014, 10:33:20 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.

it's been nine months for me, I don't think I'll never see her or my baby again. All I've gotten is some drive by's.

I got the drive-byes, too... .That is THE most self-centered nonsense I have ever had to endure.  No intention of taking any responsibility for harms and abuse and abandonment of our relationship... .just selfishly wallowing in HER emotional needs after abandoning me.   Nothing more... .I talked to her once and she was smug and abusive.  If she cared about my feelings... she would not be driving by my house... .If she cared about the new guy she was sleeping with every night she would not be driving by my house... total wallowing self-indulgence and control.  She was probably putting it out there to others, no doubt.  Nothing approaching any kind of "healthy" love there.  That is what I experienced.  

I would love to tell you that there was something there for me to work with and still have a shred of self-esteem... .but there just wasn't.

why would they do the drive by thing? They left us

Dont know. Mine walks her dog past my house. Neighbors told me that pearl. Whole big ass subdivision, and gotta walk past my place. Sheesh.
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« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2014, 10:40:07 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.

it's been nine months for me, I don't think I'll never see her or my baby again. All I've gotten is some drive by's.

I got the drive-byes, too... .That is THE most self-centered nonsense I have ever had to endure.  No intention of taking any responsibility for harms and abuse and abandonment of our relationship... .just selfishly wallowing in HER emotional needs after abandoning me.   Nothing more... .I talked to her once and she was smug and abusive.  If she cared about my feelings... she would not be driving by my house... .If she cared about the new guy she was sleeping with every night she would not be driving by my house... total wallowing self-indulgence and control.  She was probably putting it out there to others, no doubt.  Nothing approaching any kind of "healthy" love there.  That is what I experienced.  

I would love to tell you that there was something there for me to work with and still have a shred of self-esteem... .but there just wasn't.

why would they do the drive by thing? They left us

Can you say "sick and unhealthy person" ?
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« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2014, 11:27:53 PM »

WOW... .can't believe it ... she called after 2 years ... crying like hell... she is losing her job on Dec30... wants my help and support... pleading that I see her atleast once... I met her at coffee place... she looked so sad, dilapidated and worn out ... dark spots under her eyes... tears flowing continuously... .begging to support  because... "you always helped me and I could deal with problems ... .you gave me strength and wisdom ... please don't drop me"  Unbelievable... .she appeared like she has aged 10 years in last 2 years.  I could not control my rescuing tendencies and said "I will try... please tell me how things are with you?" ME... .stupid... rescuer !  What I am getting into? I admit that during break up 2 years ago... she gave silent treatment... raged and threatened R/S but did not carry out any threats.  I narrated to her what she did to me in clear  manner... .she listened to me thoughtfully and said... "I was trying to protect you from my craziness... .I will never harm you... Please teach me how to deal with those crazy moments."  And ... Me .the same stupid rescuer... .started consoling her and telling her how to face and live with loss of job"  I had mixed emotions about this... but... the desire to help her was very strong... I will deal with the consequences... .Planning to have a very limited r/s  and take one day at a time.

Yes... .folks... they do come back... even after many years... be ready !

I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I am the same except I let her back in completely about 1 yr ago and now I am facing serious consequences. They will always come back.

it's been nine months for me, I don't think I'll never see her or my baby again. All I've gotten is some drive by's.

I got the drive-byes, too... .That is THE most self-centered nonsense I have ever had to endure.  No intention of taking any responsibility for harms and abuse and abandonment of our relationship... .just selfishly wallowing in HER emotional needs after abandoning me.   Nothing more... .I talked to her once and she was smug and abusive.  If she cared about my feelings... she would not be driving by my house... .If she cared about the new guy she was sleeping with every night she would not be driving by my house... total wallowing self-indulgence and control.  She was probably putting it out there to others, no doubt.  Nothing approaching any kind of "healthy" love there.  That is what I experienced.  

I would love to tell you that there was something there for me to work with and still have a shred of self-esteem... .but there just wasn't.

why would they do the drive by thing? They left us

Dont know. Mine walks her dog past my house. Neighbors told me that pearl. Whole big ass subdivision, and gotta walk past my place. Sheesh.

Little kids love playing hide and seek. What better way to engage you to seek her then walking by your house. It's a game . But to them it's part of survival.
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« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2014, 02:05:05 PM »

you bring up somethings worth looking at, Want2knowmore.  sometimes it might seem like there is a control issue on these forums.  sometimes i do ponder the motives for coming here, getting involved in others' issues, "helping", etc.  reading and/or posting on forums can be an expression of The White Knight Syndrome, where we may be substituting the boards for our xpwBPD; or of being co-dependent; or of being a Rescuer or Fixer, et al.

personally, i set my BPDx free to be whoever and whatever she is.  i set you free in the same way.   i strive to set everybody free to be whoever and whatever they are.  for what choice do i have, really?  it's none of my business!  plus, i can only control myself.  frankly, i often have a hard time doing that simple task.   

i would gently posit that maybe it is you that is "not yet ready to accept her illness".  read abt Waif Borderlines much?  they present as damsel in distress but when you throw them a lifesaver, they either refuse to grab on (!) or they jump back into the water as soon as you turn your back, and need to be rescued over and over and over.  you can lose your mind living this scenario out repeatedly.  ask me how i know.

your "duty", imo, is to yourself.  to protect yourself.  i do not mean that in a narcissistic, selfish way, but to do what is best for yourself.  and if you are not doing that, to dig around inside yourself to discover why.  why is it so rewarding to throw good money after bad?  to spend time and energy on someone such as your xpwBPD.  to place someone else's needs above your own is ultimately a suicide mission.  you can "show her the way" by giving resources such as BPD boards FOR BPD'ers, for example.  then, what she does with info is truly none of your business.  if you make it your business, then you are still living some kind of fantasy.

personally, i found my BPDx to be a unbelievably fantastic goldmine of a smokescreen distraction from facing my own issues.  YMMV.

just my 2 cents  Smiling (click to insert in post)

icu2

I know that she is impulsive, unpredictable and sick. I know what she might do when she flips and paint me black. She is begging for me to guide her but she is not ready yet to accept her illness. I am slowly and in caring ,non- judgemental way trying to instil some insight and understanding of her behavior causing problems. If I tell her that she needs a mental health professional... I know... knowing her... she will flee and run in the arms of an abusive, alcoholic man . Well... I have a principle in life... and that is... once I call someone my friend... I do not run away... I try hard to show them the way ... isn't that duty of a friend?

No... .I can not do better... I am sure.   I think I went overboard criticizing Mental health professionals... .I really meant some of them.  Its really hard to be not be greedy for love as it probably fulfills a deep need to be loved and admired. Also, the feeling that your effort did help someone somewhat. I think that's why a lot of people share ,guide and advise other members on these boards. We can call this greed for the need to be useful and helpful. In that sense, all people in helping professions, police, fire fighters, teachers ... probably all suffer from this greed to give and receive love and adoration ... .by helping others. Helping others or trying to help someone is not a sin in my Bible.

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« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2014, 02:22:48 PM »

you bring up somethings worth looking at, Want2knowmore.  sometimes it might seem like there is a control issue on these forums.  sometimes i do ponder the motives for coming here, getting involved in others' issues, "helping", etc.  reading and/or posting on forums can be an expression of The White Knight Syndrome, where we may be substituting the boards for our xpwBPD; or of being co-dependent; or of being a Rescuer or Fixer, et al.

personally, i set my BPDx free to be whoever and whatever she is.  i set you free in the same way.   i strive to set everybody free to be whoever and whatever they are.  for what choice do i have, really?  it's none of my business!  plus, i can only control myself.  frankly, i often have a hard time doing that simple task.   

i would gently posit that maybe it is you that is "not yet ready to accept her illness".  read abt Waif Borderlines much?  they present as damsel in distress but when you throw them a lifesaver, they either refuse to grab on (!) or they jump back into the water as soon as you turn your back, and need to be rescued over and over and over.  you can lose your mind living this scenario out repeatedly.  ask me how i know.

your "duty", imo, is to yourself.  to protect yourself.  i do not mean that in a narcissistic, selfish way, but to do what is best for yourself.  and if you are not doing that, to dig around inside yourself to discover why.  why is it so rewarding to throw good money after bad?  to spend time and energy on someone such as your xpwBPD.  to place someone else's needs above your own is ultimately a suicide mission.  you can "show her the way" by giving resources such as BPD boards FOR BPD'ers, for example.  then, what she does with info is truly none of your business.  if you make it your business, then you are still living some kind of fantasy.

personally, i found my BPDx to be a unbelievably fantastic goldmine of a smokescreen distraction from facing my own issues.  YMMV.

just my 2 cents  Smiling (click to insert in post)

icu2

I know that she is impulsive, unpredictable and sick. I know what she might do when she flips and paint me black. She is begging for me to guide her but she is not ready yet to accept her illness. I am slowly and in caring ,non- judgemental way trying to instil some insight and understanding of her behavior causing problems. If I tell her that she needs a mental health professional... I know... knowing her... she will flee and run in the arms of an abusive, alcoholic man . Well... I have a principle in life... and that is... once I call someone my friend... I do not run away... I try hard to show them the way ... isn't that duty of a friend?

No... .I can not do better... I am sure.   I think I went overboard criticizing Mental health professionals... .I really meant some of them.  Its really hard to be not be greedy for love as it probably fulfills a deep need to be loved and admired. Also, the feeling that your effort did help someone somewhat. I think that's why a lot of people share ,guide and advise other members on these boards. We can call this greed for the need to be useful and helpful. In that sense, all people in helping professions, police, fire fighters, teachers ... probably all suffer from this greed to give and receive love and adoration ... .by helping others. Helping others or trying to help someone is not a sin in my Bible.


Brutal. But a damn good point.
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« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2015, 10:46:01 PM »

Here is a slightly different perspective:

One definition (this is a clinical definition, not a popular one) of mental illness is,  "absence of altruism".

Therefore, this impulse to help another person is one of the aspects of normalcy... .normalcy being defined as one's ability to master one's animal basic instincts... .to be a part of the "human" tribe.

Given this, your impulse to help is noble.

Now, the issue is how to make sure that this impulse has the maximum positive impact:

Examples of altruism can be Mother Teresa, people who risk their lives to save others, parents making enormous sacrifices for their children, doctors who work in rural areas out of desire to help the poor communities, grandmother who volunteers to rock HIV suffering children in the hospital... .

And then here is another example of altruism:

www.thecruxmovie.com/pdf/TheBridgeShortStory.pdf

Altruism can be misused.  Please do not let the best in you be misused.

Volunteer... .for a good cause... .donate your time and energy... .be a mentor, a big brother, work for habitat for humanity, rescue at risk animals... .foster an injured puppy... .

There are millions of ways to reflect your altruism where it will be of maximum help without any harm to you.

Do not let go of your desire to help... .just give it a purpose and a direction and a methodology where your desire leaves a good impression of you on this earth.

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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2015, 08:45:13 AM »

           

Given what we know about our BPDex's mental state... .it's one thing for us to offer kindness & information, it's another to partake in a sexual exchange... .it feels like I'd be taking advantage... ."

I've been thinking a lot about my boundaries these days... .and I've been thinking about this very thing.

I don't really think myexBPDgf will attempt to recycle, but there's always the possibility - and I've read enough on these boards to know that people who were just as "certain" as I that there wouldn't be a recycle attempt were shocked when it actually happened.  So I think about how to handle it if it does come.

In the original post, wanttoknowmore's description of his gf is a classic description of someone in the "vulnerable child" mode.  In schema therapy, the vulnerable child mode is a state in which a person feels "lonely, isolated, sad, misunderstood, unsupported, defective, deprived, overwhelmed, incompetent, doubts self, needy, helpless, hopeless, frightened, anxious, worried, victimized, worthless, unloved, unlovable, lost, directionless, fragile, weak, defeated, oppressed, powerless, left out, excluded, pessimistic.

In other words, in this mode, pwBPD are responding to life at the (emotional) developmental level of a frightened 5 year old. If my exBPDgf attempted to recycle with me in that mode, I'd have to respond more as a parent, if that makes sense.  In many ways, whenever my ex was in vulnerable child mode that's exactly what I was in the relationship anyway - I just I didn't understand the dynamic when I was in it. Obviously this is no way to conduct a healthy, adult relationship... .but that's water under the bridge at this point.

So now that I have this understanding, in any communication during a recycle attempt: a) my boundaries would have to be crystal clear and my emotions in check, and b) nothing sexual could occur... .that would just be weird now that I understand the disorder.
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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2015, 09:47:47 AM »

           

Given what we know about our BPDex's mental state... .it's one thing for us to offer kindness & information, it's another to partake in a sexual exchange... .it feels like I'd be taking advantage... ."

I've been thinking a lot about my boundaries these days... .and I've been thinking about this very thing.

I don't really think myexBPDgf will attempt to recycle, but there's always the possibility - and I've read enough on these boards to know that people who were just as "certain" as I that there wouldn't be a recycle attempt were shocked when it actually happened.  So I think about how to handle it if it does come.

In the original post, wanttoknowmore's description of his gf is a classic description of someone in the "vulnerable child" mode.  In schema therapy, the vulnerable child mode is a state in which a person feels "lonely, isolated, sad, misunderstood, unsupported, defective, deprived, overwhelmed, incompetent, doubts self, needy, helpless, hopeless, frightened, anxious, worried, victimized, worthless, unloved, unlovable, lost, directionless, fragile, weak, defeated, oppressed, powerless, left out, excluded, pessimistic.

In other words, in this mode, pwBPD are responding to life at the (emotional) developmental level of a frightened 5 year old. If my exBPDgf attempted to recycle with me in that mode, I'd have to respond more as a parent, if that makes sense.  In many ways, whenever my ex was in vulnerable child mode that's exactly what I was in the relationship anyway - I just I didn't understand the dynamic when I was in it. Obviously this is no way to conduct a healthy, adult relationship... .but that's water under the bridge at this point.

So now that I have this understanding, in any communication during a recycle attempt: a) my boundaries would have to be crystal clear and my emotions in check, and b) nothing sexual could occur... .that would just be weird now that I understand the disorder.

Mine, years later will still randomly, only when alone (not with new supply), will try to do the whole "accidental" run-in thing in the supermarket or wherever.  I always just put my head down and keep moving... .I don't know if she is just trying to set the hook and abuse me, recycle or chat about the weather.  ... but by me not engaging she gets to play the victim, which is her FAVORITE role... .so my actions actually make her quite happy.  See... .I do still love her. LOL!

If she is with him, she acts out in some way to please him and denigrate me.

There is not a chance in Hell that I would have a conversation with her ever again after the way I have been treated. She may be mentally ill... .

But it's not my circus and they're not my monkeys! :-)
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2015, 06:07:45 PM »

Firstly... .an update: Me and pwBPD made an agreement and she agreed that she will talk about what happened during break up and the way she behaved. She requested me to be slow and kind as it make her very frightened.  I agreed. The only thing we would do when we meet is to talk about what happened and why did it happen.

I pointed out her rage, silent treatment, irrationality and absurdity but quickly added that I can not blame her as I do understand that it was not intentional . It just did happen and was very dangerous. I recall the moments when she was dissociating. I told her about dissociation. He appeared sad and helpless and kept totally quiet.

I asked "do you at least take 50% responsibility of what happened before and after break up ? To my surprise ,she said... "Yes... I  do." I thanked her for being courageous to admit it.

I think they do not have control once they get dysregulated... .I know many of you will not agree to this assertion BUT that's what I have concluded.

I asked if did miss me... .she said ... yes, many times... she would go to fruit juice bar sometimes alone ... where we used to drink fruit smoothies together.

Once regulated, they gain control of their feelings and behavior but that can change again any time.
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2015, 06:57:49 PM »

Firstly... .an update: Me and pwBPD made an agreement and she agreed that she will talk about what happened during break up and the way she behaved. She requested me to be slow and kind as it make her very frightened.  I agreed. The only thing we would do when we meet is to talk about what happened and why did it happen.

I pointed out her rage, silent treatment, irrationality and absurdity but quickly added that I can not blame her as I do understand that it was not intentional . It just did happen and was very dangerous. I recall the moments when she was dissociating. I told her about dissociation. He appeared sad and helpless and kept totally quiet.

I asked "do you at least take 50% responsibility of what happened before and after break up ? To my surprise ,she said... "Yes... I  do." I thanked her for being courageous to admit it.

I think they do not have control once they get dysregulated... .I know many of you will not agree to this assertion BUT that's what I have concluded.

I asked if did miss me... .she said ... yes, many times... she would go to fruit juice bar sometimes alone ... where we used to drink fruit smoothies together.

Once regulated, they gain control of their feelings and behavior but that can change again any time.

You may want to read the following post; it includes a really clear explanation of dysregulation:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239891.msg12551944#msg12551944
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2015, 09:30:23 PM »

Here is a slightly different perspective:

One definition (this is a clinical definition, not a popular one) of mental illness is,  "absence of altruism".

Therefore, this impulse to help another person is one of the aspects of normalcy... .normalcy being defined as one's ability to master one's animal basic instincts... .to be a part of the "human" tribe.

Given this, your impulse to help is noble.

Now, the issue is how to make sure that this impulse has the maximum positive impact:

Examples of altruism can be Mother Teresa, people who risk their lives to save others, parents making enormous sacrifices for their children, doctors who work in rural areas out of desire to help the poor communities, grandmother who volunteers to rock HIV suffering children in the hospital... .

And then here is another example of altruism:

www.thecruxmovie.com/pdf/TheBridgeShortStory.pdf

Altruism can be misused.  Please do not let the best in you be misused.

Volunteer... .for a good cause... .donate your time and energy... .be a mentor, a big brother, work for habitat for humanity, rescue at risk animals... .foster an injured puppy... .

There are millions of ways to reflect your altruism where it will be of maximum help without any harm to you.

Do not let go of your desire to help... .just give it a purpose and a direction and a methodology where your desire leaves a good impression of you on this earth.

Mine once asked me if I would help a homeless person in a particular scenario. Naturally, being mentally healthy I said yes. She said that she wouldn't. I found this troubling, but as we all do, I didn't think about it too much and just jokingly called her mean, she said, you always say I'm mean.      They seriously lack altruism.
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« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2015, 07:29:38 PM »

UPDATE:  After she came back after 2 years of NC... .She wanted me to come to a park for a walk where we used to go for walk in morning. We talked how things were with her and me

She was happy and started telling about her problems. I listened and then, I described to her what happened at the end of our R/S and she was queit/thoughtful. When asked if she is wiling to take at least 50% responsibility of this ugly break up. To my surprize she said "Yes... I do."  I told her that if she wants to talk and meet with me now onwards, the only subject

I want to talk about is what happened between us and why did it happen? She was silent as I indicated that unless we process last episode... same thing might happen again and I don't want to go thru that pain again.  SINCE THAT DAY... .THERE IS NO CALL... NO TEXT... .EVERYTHING HAS BECOME SILENT AND I FEEL FINE. Its been total silence for last 5 days.
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« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2015, 07:51:35 PM »

Is this why some of them breakup and disappear? Their thinking is that they are attempting to protect the non from their 'crazinness'?
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« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2015, 03:54:00 AM »

Their thinking is that they are attempting to protect the non from their 'crazinness'?

It would be considerate, empathic person's hard choice. Borderlines do not think like this.
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« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2015, 04:06:53 AM »

Is this why some of them breakup and disappear? Their thinking is that they are attempting to protect the non from their 'crazinness'?

Haha! Well, not I'm experience. They don't think they are a toxic mess and should go clean up. They just continue rolling down the hill picking up trash and running into people's lives without a thought for them or the destruction they cause. If they 'disappear' it's because they have some kind of new supply, online, flirting, offline, dating, whatever, they are in CONsTaNT need!

I suppose if a BPD wants to recover or is in recovery it could be the case but without that insight I'd have to say NO
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« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2015, 10:19:18 AM »

Hmmmmmm... .although I am sure that mine is BPD, maybe she is some different type. ... .I know that mine for certain never recycled and sought another man... .she also admitted more than once that she had problems and needed to see a therapist but never had done so. As I understand now, she IS in therapy so she does understand that she is toxic.
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« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2015, 10:33:20 AM »

Is this why some of them breakup and disappear? Their thinking is that they are attempting to protect the non from their 'crazinness'?

Some of them do this.
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« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2015, 11:02:45 AM »

yeah, it seems so inconsistent with the other accounts that I have been reading... .
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« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2015, 08:47:42 AM »

On the topic of empathy, this is a really interesting thread:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=130485.0
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« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2015, 10:25:30 AM »

This has been very interesting reading wanttoknowmore. My theory on her disappearing act is that she couldn't handle your demand on her to take responsibility for her actions.
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« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2015, 10:37:10 AM »

Thats exactly the status of my ex right now. She had left some property at my house where I finally communicated (via FB, she was definitely stalking me despite cutting off communication) that I was just going to give everything away. She had a friend of hers contact me via IM who demanded that she be able to come and collect the stuff. My demand was that my ex and my ex only come and pick it up AND provide me with an explanation for her disappearing act. I was clear that it would all be gone for good no later than today. So far, crickets.

The property is priceless family heirloom kinda things, non-replaceable things (and makes me wonder if it was an accident that she left it or was it deliberate). It blows my mind that she is willing for me to simply trash it it rather than to face her shame and provide me with an explanation for her actions. This shows me JUST how powerful a grip BPD has ove the rational mind.

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