Experience with in-home separation / D w/kids

[livednlearned]

I know one of the child psych experts she's consulted, I can reach out directly.  I'll need to figure out how to broach concerns without making accusations or coming off as paranoid

"Help me understand xyz" is one way to thread that needle.

"What's this going to be like for them? What can I do to make this easier for them? What should I be doing or saying?" These kinds of questions will put a question mark in the psychologist's mind about whether you're the monster mom described you to be, if/when she did that during their conversation.

Jujitsu parenting by Craig Childress is also really helpful when you're talking to third-party professionals. He's describing the deep end of alienation which may be more severe than what's happening now in your relationship but the essence of what he's saying can be applied even when things are starting to heat up.

There's a better than average chance your wife has already described you as controlling/abusive/horrible so you'll be in the one-down position before you even pick up the phone. It may not be at this level yet but it's coming through in your wife's comments to you that she's developing ways to avoid responsibility that simultaneously hurt your girls, and your relationship with them.

Her complaint calls for majority physical custody/joint legal custody (my state likes 50/50 for both), and the conveyance of the home

Does the complaint say why 50/50 isn't workable? Apologies if I missed that above.

I have no idea what her plans might be

In most states, the court will impute incomes. Meaning, if she has an MBA, then mama better be dusting off that resume 

No one wants to go from being a homeowner to being a renter, but that's how it goes with a lot of divorces.

There's a financial calculator somewhere on the site that says it takes people an average 4 years to financially recover from divorce, and 8 years to recover from a high-conflict divorce.

If you're the financially prudent partner, it may take you somewhere between 4 to 8 years. Since she was driving most of the spending, you'll most likely come out better in the long term even though the short term can look pretty gruesome.

[worriedStepmom]

I think you should go ahead and tell the kids together.  Soon.

You can keep working to line up resources for them - counseling, support groups, whatever you think they may need.

And be prepared that once the kids know (and, again, she is going to tell oldest soon regardless of your wishes), you'll need to be a very vigilant parent because it will likely get nasty.

[EyesUp]

Briefly, today was my oldest daughter's final day of at-home school, after next week she will back in-person full time.  I ordered tacos from a local place to celebrate.  First and only time I've done anything like this since the pandemic began.

W was out of the house, as usual.  With limited exceptions, I've made lunch throughout.

D told W about the lunch, W sent a txt:  "just need to say, while I skip meals you have no problem ordering takeout for you and D.  Noted.  But I guess that was your plan all along."

Even now, in the moment, I am jammed by this - no idea how to respond to this sort of passive aggressive communication.

Just ignore?   I'm ignoring a lot these days.  Grey rock.

Thanks for following along.

[kells76]

Ignore. She's not in a place to hear anything. You did good for your kids!

Good to hear your D will be back in school -- time away from your W will be good for D.

[livednlearned]

I agree with kells76.

No point in rewarding passive aggression with engagement.

If she brings it up later in person, maybe try something like "Huh. I can see your point."

Then don't engage beyond that.

Shrugging it off while having eye contact is also a way to shut down the fight she wants to have.

The appearance of agreeing with someone who wants to be arguing with you can be disarming.

The interesting thing about your wife's BPD traits is that she seems somewhat reigned in by reason. She does not appear to become severely dysregulated when she's sweating the small stuff. That seems to be reserved for what she might perceive as public exposure.

[EyesUp]

Ignore. She's not in a place to hear anything. You did good for your kids!

Good to hear your D will be back in school -- time away from your W will be good for D.

Thanks, Kells.  2/3 kids have been mostly with me while at home, so it's bittersweet - although I am hugely relieved that things are returning to normal - where school is concerned - for the kids. 

On the other hand, I'm mindful that they only have ~2 months until school is out for summer, and we've only confirmed ~2 weeks of camp for the older two.  The youngest will continue at the same place she attended PreK and then remote K this year - familiar place, with friends, so 1/3 kids is covered.  I'm interviewing a potential family counselor for the kids today.

[kells76]

I'm interviewing a potential family counselor for the kids today.

    

Good idea to schedule summertime activities for the kids, given that things will be getting tense at home. Can you remind me -- are there family members/cousins/grandparents that your kids like spending time with, in your area? Setting up fun/safe places ahead of time for the kids to go might help you feel more secure as you move forward.

[EyesUp]

The appearance of agreeing with someone who wants to be arguing with you can be disarming.

The interesting thing about your wife's BPD traits is that she seems somewhat reigned in by reason. She does not appear to become severely dysregulated when she's sweating the small stuff. That seems to be reserved for what she might perceive as public exposure.

Very perceptive - thank you.  My IC has speculated that my W will dysregulate when she learns that she cannot get everything she wants in D.  In the meantime, she is generally functional - but barely contains her emotions when the slightest hint of criticism or rejection, real or perceived, is present.

This morning our middle daughter asked me to pack mac and cheese in her lunch because I made dinner last night and she knew we had leftovers.  My W usually makes the lunches.  I told my W what happened, that I added the M&C to the lunch.  Her response was not "thanks, got it" or anything you might expect from a non, but an instant conflict.  

Yet I didn't want to risk not telling her, and having her find the container later when D returns from school and having a larger response due to the surprise.

The bigger issues at the moment are related to the game of telephone between our attys.

My W has concluded that I view her as an "unfit mother" with "mental problems" - and claims that this is exactly what I've reported to my atty, who in turn conveyed these comments to her atty.  Of course I've taken pains to avoid this sort of language, yet here we are.  I can only speculate that my W's atty said something my W didn't like which is now attributed to me.  Of course there are some counter arguments for 50/50 custody, as well as potential challenges for my W to have majority custody - I suspect that my W's atty shared these challenges, which my W perceived as actual claims or counter claims.  So now she's convinced that will not participate in a good faith process to reach an amicable settlement.

My atty is catching on fast, "it seems like your W considers getting anything less than 100% of her request as an insult if not an act of hostility" - pretty much!

Prior comments re: jiu-jitsu - and avoiding the reasonable position from a negotiating POV are very well taken here.

[EyesUp]

   
Can you remind me -- are there family members/cousins/grandparents that your kids like spending time with, in your area? Setting up fun/safe places ahead of time for the kids to go might help you feel more secure as you move forward.

Mostly on my W's side...   However I am working on this.

[livednlearned]

I can only speculate that my W's atty said something my W didn't like which is now attributed to me.

It could be as simple as "he wants 50/50" which she hears as "because you are unfit" to get the majority custody she feels entitled to.

[kells76]

It could be as simple as "he wants 50/50" which she hears as "because you are unfit"

It could be as simple as "I packed mac & cheese for D" which she hears as "because you are unfit"

Not that understanding why necessarily helps, but she's really in a pit of EVERYTHING getting interpreted through her lenses as "I'm an unfit mother".

Strategically, you can use that to your advantage in the divorce process.

This is longer term thinking, but consider brainstorming with your L ways to "package" what you know is best for the kids, in a wrapper that plays into her wanting to feel like a competent mother. Reach goal: package 50/50 in a way that her agreeing to it makes her feel both like she's winning and you're losing, and that she is amazing and competent. Tricky, not impossible.

[EyesUp]

It could be as simple as "he wants 50/50" which she hears as "because you are unfit" to get the majority custody she feels entitled to.

I get it.  She was using the "unfit" language long before the D was filed when expressing concerns/accusations to me (i.e, "you think I'm an unfit mother!"), it's not clear to me where this comes from - it did not originate with me.

That said, I suspect that my atty has gone a step further and already shared some information that my W did not provide to her atty (and which he failed to explore), e.g., history of depression, anxiety, 2 recent 911 calls, and potentially aspects of her behavior around her affair - which would not effect D, but could potentially have some influence re: custody.

I suspect that my W's atty was interested to learn about this from my atty, instead of from his client.

In addition, I don't have clear details, however there is anecdotal evidence that my W is developing claims re: emotional abuse, and that she believes that I'm a narcissist (of course).  

Worth noting that while she has stated that she needs majority custody (still hasn't stated why), she currently depends on me to do pickup 3 days per week for our youngest so she can work part time, and to watch our youngest on Saturdays when the older 2 attend dance.  I cherish this time, it's not a compromise in any way for me - just part of sharing parenting responsibility. She has also proposed splitting time in the house while D is pending, in which we each stay elsewhere 2-3 nights/week.  Why would she do this or propose this if she was genuinely concerned for the kids safety?  These are just a few of the contradictions in her recent/current behavior.

My IC commented that it's almost as if my W expected that with filing, I would suddenly disappear and she would instantly have all necessary resources to manage the kids independently.  Instead, she found out that I already have an atty, and that the process is not quick or easy, and that she likely won't get everything she asked for.  Yesterday, my W was surprised to learn that she will not be able to unilaterally select counselors for the kids.

Not yet clear if her atty fails to explain any of this, or if she fails to hear what she doesn't want to hear (which has often been the case in our relationship).

[EyesUp]

Not that understanding why necessarily helps, but she's really in a pit of EVERYTHING getting interpreted through her lenses as "I'm an unfit mother".

Strategically, you can use that to your advantage in the divorce process.

This is longer term thinking, but consider brainstorming with your L ways to "package" what you know is best for the kids, in a wrapper that plays into her wanting to feel like a competent mother. Reach goal: package 50/50 in a way that her agreeing to it makes her feel both like she's winning and you're losing, and that she is amazing and competent. Tricky, not impossible.

This is Grade A USDA Prime insight / advice. 
Many thanks.

[kells76]

she currently depends on me to do pickup 3 days per week for our youngest so she can work part time, and to watch our youngest on Saturdays when the older 2 attend dance

Document, document, document. PRIVATE Google calendar/Google spreadsheet, etc, if you aren't already.

She may say all kinds of things, like how "in reality, she flies on magical wings to carry the kids around town 24/7, and you run away from the kids and never do anything for them, and they know you are an evil ogre". She will say whatever she wants, and she will likely not have documentation to back it up.

She has also proposed splitting time in the house while D is pending, in which we each stay elsewhere 2-3 nights/week.

Depending on if she hangs on to this idea or lets it go... if it comes up in mediation or any kind of legal setting, consider "agreeing" with part of it: "EyesUpWife is welcome to stay elsewhere as often as she likes. I do not control where EyesUpWife stays. I will remain at the house with the children regardless".

Why would she do this or propose this if she was genuinely concerned for the kids safety?

Carbon copy of DH's ex. Back when they met F2F to discuss scheduling, they worked out a new schedule, then she told him she was afraid of him abusing the kids. I know you get this -- anyone without BPD experience would not believe it.

Document, document, document.

"In a filing dated 4/2/2021, EyesUpWife demanded 100% custody, stating I was an unfit parent. On 4/13/2021 in a text message at 11:00 a.m., EyesUpWife asked me to stay at home with D#1 and D#2 so she could pick up D#3. I cared for D1 and D2 at home for 3 hours."

It is going to be hard, and sad. Yet the more you can stay 5 steps ahead, the better off the kids will be.

Leverage what you know about your W's core desires (image? competence? superiority?) to get done whatever needs to get done for the kids (getting a counselor). I.e., you select 3 counselors you've vetted, put their names on a list, and let W pick one "whoever she can tell has the insight that W knows the kids need". Some phrasing that plays into your W's emotional needs. Again, sad but true, it's packaging stuff so she feels like she is on top and winning, but the kids get help.

[worriedStepmom]

Oh my goodness, I laughed at your mac and cheese story.  SD's mom once called and yelled at me because I packed SD a lunch for school on a night she was with us.  SD's mom told me I was "stealing her daughter one peanut butter sandwich at a time". 

I hung up on her.  I can make as many sandwiches as I want at my home.

SD's mom is TERRIFIED of losing SD.  She has been convinced since their divorce 12 years ago that H was plotting to take SD away from her and "remother" her. She just *knows* that if she appears before a judge he will take SD away forever (the reasons why change - because I have a good job, because I'm a good mom, because H has brainwashed them, because judges don't like mental illness, etc).

For the first few years, I was able to use this.  SD's mom didn't want to allow SD to do x?  All it took was a very sappy text from me about how much SD loved X, and surely mom wanted to do what was best for SD and allow her to participate?

Over time,  SD's mom began reading *any* question or suggestion about SD as a sign that we think she is an unfit mom.  This caused her to overreact in very large and creative ways and is the direct reason why H now has primary custody.  ("Do you think SD should have allergy testing" resulted in mom calling the domestic violence hotline and scaring the pants off SD)

I will guarantee that your children are already being trained that it is their job to reassure mom that she isn't a bad mom.  SD honestly believed that it was her job to calm mom down if mom thought she unfit and if she couldn't do it, mom would die.  We've had primary custody for years now and those statements have stopped, yet SD melted down the other day because I jokingly referred to myself as a bad mom.  It is a major trigger for her.

This is a major and important weakness in your wife and can be used for good (getting her to agree to stuff) and [necessary] evil (triggering a meltdown in front of the court/lawyers).

Your documentation will be critical.  "<date> I informed W I made D mac and cheese.  Wife yelled and screamed for X minutes". 

Supporting your kids will also be critical so they don't turn into mom's caretakers.

[ForeverDad]

My W wants to tell our oldest.  She put this in an email.

At this point, we have no plan, no agreement, no timeline.

There's a saying, "The walls have ears."  The children may already know more than you realize.

Some members have shared that their children, once told of the upcoming divorce, said they wished the parents had separated sooner.  Don't be surprised if one of more of your children says something like that.  Of course, the responses could reflect whether there has been manipulation and influencing going on.

A concern here is that children are inclined to internalize and it may be a long time before you hear that they feel inside it's their fault.  So make sure they are informed (and repeated often enough) that absolutely nothing is their fault.  Yet another good reason to have empathetic and trained counselors.  By the way, the children should not get counseling from your counselor or spouse's therapist, if any.  Yes, the counselors can communicate amongst themselves, but kids get their own sessions.  A parent sitting in all the time can limit results.

[EyesUp]

Thanks, all.

@FD, you are 100% correct about the walls, and I'm sure the kids know something is up.

I did pickups yesterday, it was raining, W responded by saying "I should quit my (part time) job so that I can do pickups", and then addressing the kids at dinner:  "when I was in school, I walked every day, in the rain.  Only dad thinks it's ok to give you a ride".   

Ironically, I had told both kids that now that the weather is improving they should plan to walk every day - as they did before the pandemic.  The fact is that remote/hybrid just ended this week, the kids are now back in school fulltime, it's a transition - both seasonal and practical - and W and I agree that kids should walk - school is very close - unless the weather is bad. 

So W and D12 started jousting about what's fair, and it was rapidly escalating.  I intervened and redirected the discussion "what was the best part of everyone's day?" - which we do at dinner every day (W gets credit for initiating this with the kids years ago).  Immediately after dinner, W attempted to confront me while I was bathing D6.  "Sorry, I'm busy - maybe after the kids are in bed?"  D6 asks "what does throw someone under the bus mean?"

I sent a short follow up email to validate (and document):  I agree, I support you, the kids will walk, if we need to discuss more let's do it tomorrow when the kids are at school... etc.

W responds... "if you continue to try to turn the kids against me, there will be legal consequences"

Even though I'm not surprised, I'm surprised.

How to respond?  Or not respond?

Batten down the hatches...

[kells76]

Immediately after dinner, W attempted to confront me while I was bathing D6.  "Sorry, I'm busy - maybe after the kids are in bed?"  D6 asks "what does throw someone under the bus mean?"

I sent a short follow up email to validate (and document):  I agree, I support you, the kids will walk, if we need to discuss more let's do it tomorrow when the kids are at school... etc.

W responds... "if you continue to try to turn the kids against me, there will be legal consequences"

I think you handled this well.

First, you agreed "yes, let's discuss this" and offered a specific time.

Then, you did the disarming jiu-jitsu of agreeing with her. Notice the big  of -- you agree with her and "the problem should be solved" but somehow "it's still a problem". That dynamic always alerts me that something else is simmering there. But, like you said, not a surprise that "agreeing that the kids will walk to school" is not solving the real problem.

She is showing people who she is when a reasonable solution is presented, and she doesn't engage with it. Good you got that in an email.

You did another good move in the email of saying "Yes, I agree" and then putting her own work back on her by leaving the door open: "If you want to discuss more, how about tomorrow". So it's no longer your problem to "try to discuss it with her". If she wants to talk more, that's her call. Otherwise, done.

...

If it were me, I wouldn't respond. Leave the email at that. No more offers, "thank you's", tries, "I'm sorry's" etc.

Once again, she isn't in a place where she can hear anything from you.

I would forward that email chain to my lawyer.

[ForeverDad]

I did pickups yesterday, it was raining, W responded by saying "I should quit my (part time) job so that I can do pickups"... Batten down the hatches...

When my marriage imploded and we separated, my spouse was earning $100 - $200 a month on her MLM 'work'.  My lawyer managed to get her income "imputed" to minimum wage levels for support calculations, which was less than what she'd been earning before she quit after my then-preschooler was born.

You want her employed.  Fortunately, she's already filed for divorce and so if she does quit, it will be one more probable negative against her... she was working (though only part time) when she filed and thereafter quits gainful work?

One of your goals to finagle into every court appearance is that you're happy she's working, she is capable of working and thus that will be beneficial for her when the marriage is ended and your lives can go their separate ways.  Of course, how much court will pay attention and push her toward less financial dependence on you is anyone's guess but you sure don't want her to appear even more needful of spousal or child support.

Clarification question... Her lawyer informed your lawyer that she's filing for divorce  Has she actually filed with the local court or is it still in the in the nebulous discussion stage?

[EyesUp]

Thanks again, FD.

To be clear, I received a letter from my W's atty stating that my W had started the process to file.  Checking our state's online system, I found that a Complaint for at-fault D was filed that same day. 

I am still waiting to be served, I gather that the courts are backed up and pandemic-induced D business is booming.

The filing was three weeks ago.

In the meantime, I just receive a copy of the complaint - it contains no real detail other than to say my W cites irretrievable breakdown of the marriage, and she has requested majority physical custody (does not say why, and her atty has stated to my atty that she will not move off this point).

I've also started to hear claims of emotional abuse, both directly from my W, as well as from my atty when relaying information.  This is in addition to claims that I am financially controlling and not transparent about money.

I am somewhat concerned that when my atty outlines potential scenarios with my W's atty, it is relayed back to my W in terms that can only inflame the situation and drive conflict - great for the attys, not so much for me (or my W, truly).

Thinking about how to use more carrot and less stick to get her to move over to 50/50 so we can attempt to settle.

[kells76]

Thinking about how to use more carrot and less stick to get her to move over to 50/50 so we can attempt to settle.

Our thinking outside the box can help "make" pwBPDs feel like they're winning, when in reality we're getting something we want/need.

For example, the kids are with Mom on Thanksgiving Day every year. But, we have Fri-Sun with them every year.

The kids are with Mom on Christmas Day every year. But, they're with us Christmas Eve every year, and it's nice because they're not all burned out on Christmas at that point.

Consider what you'd be able to "act like is a sacrifice, but you'd grudgingly hand over after negotiating" in order to "win" something bigger.

So for DH, he "gave up" Thanksgiving day, and got 3 days out of it. We have other issues with the PP (mostly Mom's foot dragging and not treating it as legal) but hopefully these ideas help.

[EyesUp]

@kells76, this is more great advice - particularly this week.

A few notes this week:

My W has yet to provide financial statements to her atty or to send a proposal of any kind. I know she wants majority physical custody and joint legal custody, but have no other information.  My atty speculates that my W wants to control the kids because she cannot control anything else.   

As suggested here, I am working on a strategy to use this to my advantage to get 50/50.  My atty feels that the only way to get there may be go to before a judge, however we have some work in front of us before that point.

I've got a lot of studying ahead.   In addition to better understanding state guidelines and the dynamics of a given judge, GAL, etc., I'm taking a close look at other elements of a potential agreement - child support, debt resolution, retirement accounts...  in order to put together a package that my W might go for. 

I know this is a question for my atty, and likely state specific, but if my W does cannot demonstrate adequate resources to provide for the kids at least 50% of the time, can she be awarded more than 50% custody without also demonstrating a valid reason?

She's likely to try to setup some argument re: emotional abuse / narcissism against me.  I cannot imagine any other potential claim.  In the meantime, I've documented years of inconsistencies as well as current ones (e.g., since she filed she has repeatedly asked to leave the kids with me in the evening, in order to spend time with friends, usually 2-3 times per week.  Of course I'm happy to watch the kids any time).

So in addition to studying and preparing a path to 50/50, I'm diving back into Splitting in order to address false claims and related behaviors/tactics.

One general question - hard to answer, I know, but it's on my mind...   Should I be attempting to speed things up or slow them down?   i.e., should I prepare my own settlement proposal as a sort of strawman in order to get my W to take a position?  As suggested here in many areas, provide constructive / productive options...    Or wait for her to make the first real move?

[kells76]

if my W does cannot demonstrate adequate resources to provide for the kids at least 50% of the time, can she be awarded more than 50% custody

My understanding (and, as you said, this is a question for your L and could vary by state), is that there is no connection between finances and parenting time. Bear that in mind, and don't build any plans around "but she is literally only making $700 a month, so there is no way she'd be allowed to have the kids full time, so I don't have to worry...". Assume there's a "firewall" between the two.

OK, edited to add: yes, child support is typically based on # of overnights at each parent's house. In that sense, yes, there is a connection between parenting time and $$$.

But, the specific point is, don't assume that she makes too little money to have the kids for more time. Don't base any argument on "your honor, she can't possibly afford to have them 27 days a month".

[livednlearned]

My atty speculates that my W wants to control the kids because she cannot control anything else

 

Probably true. There's also this boundary-less BPD phenomenon where the kids are seen as extensions of themselves. She also seems to identify a lot with being a parent as part of her social life so there's that too.

I know this is a question for my atty, and likely state specific, but if my W does cannot demonstrate adequate resources to provide for the kids at least 50% of the time, can she be awarded more than 50% custody without also demonstrating a valid reason?

Splitting hairs here ... custody is usually broken down in different ways depending on your state.

In my state, there's primary physical custody, legal custody, and then the visitation schedule.

So, I could have primary physical custody but still have a 50/50 visitation schedule, and then have joint custody, but have decision-making on medical and school.

I suspect the nuances are on purpose for exactly our situations.

Your wife could get primary physical custody but then you get 50/50 visitation. You two could have joint legal but you get to make choices on education (if that was an issue).

That way you both get to feel like you "won," even though primary physical custody might not mean much in practice (depending on how it works where you live).

There's no such thing as sole custody where I got divorced, yet I ended up with primary physical custody and legal custody and 90/10, which sure felt like sole custody.

Hope that makes sense. It might help flip your question a bit, because it's possible that she gets primary physical custody, you both get joint legal, you get decision making on education, and visitation is 50/50, with her getting to claim them on taxes the first year and getting them for Christmas or whatever, similar to what kells76 was saying.

It's really common to focus on the big things like custody, visitation, etc. but in most family courts you can break it all down into the minutiae if that's what's going to keep you out of their courtroom. Judges don't like repeat customers and they don't like solving your problems for you.

In terms of the income/custody thing ...There was a guy on these boards (maybe it was his wife) whose affair partner was homeless but she was still awarded visitation. My L explained to me that lawyers are ethically required to treat visitation and child support/income separately. They can't really wheel and deal those two things together. I don't know if that's the same in other states.

She's likely to try to setup some argument re: emotional abuse / narcissism against me.

That's not going to go over well with a judge is my guess. Spend enough time in court and it's pretty clear judges don't want you there unless there's DV, molestation, severe substance abuse, or something else off the rails.

The way to handle someone who has emotional abuse claims is to ally yourself with the judge, which means proposing solutions. Make a reasonable offer that she can't refuse, give her deadlines, have reasonable consequences for non-compliance, etc. For example, if she says you're a big fat narcissist, then offer to do a one-week on, one-week off schedule so you two don't have to live together until ______. If she cannot find adequate housing by day/date, then suggest a residential hotel that you're willing to pay 25 percent for until day/date. That kind of thing.

Should I be attempting to speed things up or slow them down?   i.e., should I prepare my own settlement proposal as a sort of strawman in order to get my W to take a position?  As suggested here in many areas, provide constructive / productive options...    Or wait for her to make the first real move?

She's probably going to be dysregulating and stonewalling and not functioning well, would be my guess. That's not a great frame of mind for problem solving. I would put something together that gives you room to negotiate. Maybe suggest, "Propose what you'd like by day/date. If we don't have something on the table by day/date, I'll draft something up and we can go from there."

The control/competition thing is going to be consistent so everything you propose, keep those two things in mind. With narcissism, it can help to think about appearances since that stuff matters so much.

For what it's worth, my ex's narcissism meant he fought hard to get more time with our son, but then in practice, including during active custody battles, he gifted that time back to me.

It's not uncommon for some BPD co-parents to put their own needs first, which can mean in practice you end up with more time even if the papers say otherwise.

The problem with that is your wife may use the kids when she wants to socialize with other parents ...

[kells76]

Should I be attempting to speed things up or slow them down?

I see it as less about the specific acceleration, and more about who's driving the car.

The point is -- do your current velocity and acceleration work for YOU?

I could imagine a scenario where "dragging things out" could be beneficial to the non-disordered parent: i.e., the non parent has full custody, the PD parent files for a modification completely switching things around based on nothing meaningful. In that case, why hurry up to accommodate the PD parent -- if they're so desperate for a change, let them do their own legwork.

I could also imagine a scenario where "getting 10 steps ahead" could be beneficial the non-disordered parent. I am leaning towards you being in that category, a little bit.

The reason I'd see to "slow it down and see" in your case would be to document more of her incongruencies: "EyesUp is SOO abusive... that I ask him to watch the kids so I can get my nails done".

The downside to that is that she's working over the kids. The more time she has to mess with them and "get them on Mom's side", the worse for them.

So, because of where your kids are at, I'm leaning towards you setting the pace at a little brisker than she wants.

That also means, you're not letting her stonewalling/obstruction/etc set the pace for your divorce. You're not handing the steering wheel and gas pedal over to someone who isn't in touch with reality. You're driving this car, and you decide if/when you want to speed up, slow down, or change directions.

I'd orient my thinking around: How can I move forward at a pace advantageous to (#1) my kids and (#2) me, without relying on a disordered person's agreement or cooperation to do so.

[kells76]

It might help flip your question a bit, because it's possible that she gets primary physical custody, you both get joint legal, you get decision making on education, and visitation is 50/50, with her getting to claim them on taxes the first year and getting them for Christmas or whatever, similar to what kells76 was saying.

Good point. I forgot that DH and the kids' mom alternate claiming the kids on taxes EOY. There is an IRS form where the custodial parent authorizes that. We used to have her sign a new one every year, but this year (finally) it just lists out the next 5 years worth of alternations.

So, listing out line items where she might feel like she's winning (perhaps based on "titles" or "appearances") but it's really more beneficial to you:

She could be "awarded" tiebreaker/decision maker on things like: eye doctor, gynecological care, religion

You could get tiebreaker/decision maker on: mental health (!), doctor, dentist

She could get to claim 2 of the kids every tax year, and you could claim 1 of the kids every tax year, rotating kids every year (or something)

She could get "decision maker" on school sports.

You could get official residential parent for school purposes/address.

...

If she's focused on titles/appearances, as LnL supposed, then she may feel "on top" if she is "awarded" multiple things in court... even if ultimately they're areas where you're fine if she "won" them. And, if she feels "on top", she might not fight you on the things you get... that are more consequential (like mental health decision making).

[livednlearned]

And on the decision-making thing ... it can get even more detailed. Like how things will be handled on items when both parents cannot agree.

Some parenting plans will have a tie-breaker parent.

For example, say she gets to have decision-making for education. You might ask to be tie-breaker on moving school districts. Something that prevents her from deciding to relocate to a different school district.

Keep in mind, too, that a lot of us end up back in court. You want language in your proposal that foresaw the inevitable stonewalling or non-compliance so that a judge doesn't give her six bites of the apple. That becomes an expensive way to get someone else to be your tie-breaker 

[ForeverDad]

In my divorce I arrived at the court house prepared for a full-day Trial but we quickly started talking settlement.  The Custody Evaluator (an expensive but necessary professional, a child psychologist the court totally trusted) had already set the baseline - equal time in Shared Parenting.  We had to settle on the rest.

When I arrived at court on Trial Day I learned my ex was finally, after two years, ready to settle.  Here's what went down:

Minutes before my Trial Day started at court I was informed she finally, after some two years obstructing and sabotaging, was ready to settle.  Both sides expected a settlement to accept the CE's recommendation for equal time parenting.  However, I had one term to make or break the settlement... that I would be the Primary Parent for school purposes.  My ex and her lawyer (and mine too!) had assumed she would retain primacy at school, despite both lawyers knowing she was a problem parent.  Yes, even my lawyer said who was Primary Parent at school didn't make a difference!  I held firm and got it.

Since the final decree was issued 3 months before the end of the school year, I asked her school to allow our child to remain there in kindergarten for the remainder of the school year.  About 1.5 months later her school gave me one day to enroll him in my own school district, she had caused incidents there.  The fact was that they would have suffered silently if she had retained the official contact and primacy.  But she didn't and they dumped their problems with her onto my school.

What happened during the following year was that she moved to a neighboring county.  Imagine if I didn't have the leverage of my child attending school in my area, I would have had to follow her during her subsequent moves post-divorce.

I had leverage to get school priority.  I'm assuming you didn't have that ability, especially if you're currently limited to alternate weekends.  Keep documenting any school related issues because odds are you'll be back in court to settle some dispute or other, and you may be able to press to be Primary Parent for school matters.  Then you would be the stable parent with a bit more authority and have to worry less about the other's antics.

I was in and out of family court for some 8 years before we had an order that worked... with me having full custody and majority time during the school year.  From age 12 to adulthood we somehow avoided court.  In reality, her entitlement and control bubbles were deflated a bit.

A couple more years and I returned for majority time which I'd been refused before.  Each of these cases took a year and a half.  This last time was two full days before the county's best (least bad) magistrate.  The decision identified that ex was disparaging father and granted majority time during the school year.  The reality was that she had never stopped disparaging, but the court finally stopped ignoring, finally stopped expecting her to become normal in post-divorce life and finally addressed that.

My county has magistrates who act as lesser judges.  I went to court for majority time when my son was 11, I had previously obtained full custody.  He had been tardy about 20 or so times in the school year, nearly all on her school days.  I reported his 5th grade overnight field trip - and teachers corroborated - which started on my time.  She demanded she get her son when her time started, went to the location and had a scene with the teachers monitoring the camp.  The magistrate was really peeved and lectured her.

As I said, I was asking for majority time.  I was able to document how she would play games with my exchanges too.  Not now, later.  Not there, here.  The decision granted me majority time... but only during the school year, summers stayed equal time.  I concluded that you can mess around with dad with minimal scrutiny but don't mess around with school.  After-school activities may not get the same level of 'actionable' attention, but the court needs to know to factor in how they decide.

[EyesUp]

Thanks again.  It is so helpful to have this community.

Something new yesterday.  

My W gave our dog to a foster home.  No discussion, it happened almost instantly, and the scary part is that I don't think it was premeditated.

We had two dogs, both rescues.  One was adopted almost 4 years ago.  The second was adopted in Jan (a mistake to agree to this on my part).

The older dog had some anxiety and has always nipped at strangers, and sometimes visitors to our home.  W denied this, described it as normal puppy behavior, refused to do crate training, and in retrospect I can see that she perceived every effort I made to discuss the dog's behavior or to actually train the dog as criticism of her.

Yesterday afternoon, the dog nipped at our youngest daughter's friend. I did not see it happen, I was told that skin did not break but there was a mark on the girl's arm.

My W came to me and immediately said "we have to get rid of the dog".  I listened to the story. I asked if everyone was ok. I agreed that nipping is a problem (in fact, it's been a major concern with the new puppy, too).  In minutes, my wife called the adoption agency, privately, had arranged for a foster home, and told the kids that the dog was going away.

With D coming/in process, I felt like I didn't have much choice but to go along with this, to pick my battles, and to avoid a confrontation that could get a lot worse. I suppose I can attempt to recover the dog from the foster home at some point.

The kids were stunned. I consoled them, at least tried to.

I feel like I just got a dress rehearsal for how my W might do... anything.

Did she split the dog?  Maybe.  Old dog is embarrassing, problematic.  New dog is generally mellow.  Old dog has received little or no attention since the new dog arrived - the kids have commented on this multiple times.  etc.
 
The old dog wasn't "my dog" per se, but I was doing all the things...  I don't see this as being an attempt to control or hurt me, the dogs are generally W's, I have always deferred to her, supported her desire to have dogs...  I do read independently about how to train them, feed them most mornings, etc.  I suspect that the old dog became an example of a failure, of sorts, for W - so had to go.

We did have a plan to manage the dog when we had visitors, not sure how the dog even had the opportunity to nip yesterday.  The dog's behavior is/was a serious concern, and would have become even more difficult to manage if not corrected - that's what notable for me:  There as no coordinated discussion about what to do, how to do it, when to do it, e.g., real effort to correct the dog's behavior - or a coordinated plan to talk with the kids.

My attempts to ask "do you want to let the kids say goodbye" and "do you think we should let the kids see the dog get in the foster car so they understand what's happening" were met with anger.  "You think I wouldn't do that?"

[kells76]

Sorry your weekend went down that way. Your W certainly seems to be grasping for control in hurtful ways.

Am I tracking with you that you want the dog to stay part of your life?

It may take some work in parallel plus non-reactivity to your W's responses to your work in parallel to make that happen.

Of course, she may be trying create an artificial external battleground between you two -- to synthesize a problem where there wasn't one, so she can act out the roles she's ruminating over in her head. I.e., she has a sort of psychic commitment to herself being the victim and you being the persecutor. But, in reality, there are few times, if any, where that's actually true. So, she "needs" to create new conflicts and then rigidly cast you as the persecutor and her as the innocent victim.

She was just trying to protect the family... how could you bring back a hurtful, out of control dog when the kids are around... she was the only one who saw what needed to be done... etc etc etc. I'd imagine the narrative for this specific situation goes something like that.

Really, though, there are SO few, if any, times where reality matches her internal narrative, that she has this compulsion to create scenarios out of the smallest iota of possibility in order to legitimize her feelings. Hence, OK, there's the tiniest grain of truth (the dog has been nippy... for complicated reasons), and therefore her scenario is unfalsifiable. Black and white, no nuance about "why the dog may have behaved that way" (that sure opens a door she wants closed), just quickly assigning everyone a rigid role so that she can externalize her inner turmoil. It's sad, truly.

...

OK, that was theoretical. Practically speaking:

Asking for any kind of agreement or cooperation, about moving forward re: the dog, will not likely be effective, as you've seen.

I would prioritize:

Validating the kids, no matter what next steps are. "How are you feeling about Doggo? What was last week like for you? What would you like me to know about how you're feeling? Wow, anyone would've felt X after that happened. Yeah, that makes sense that you'd feel that way."

Consider doing what the kids need regardless of whether your wife agrees with you or not. Do the kids need to see Doggo soon? Can you take them on your own, even one or two kids at a time? On the one hand, the only thing that'd hold me back from that is if she somehow weaponized that against the kids, and they aren't mentally mature enough to handle it: "Dad doesn't care about your safety... I'm the only one who cared enough to protect you... I can't believe Dad would be so irresponsible as to let you be with the dog without me there... did you get bit? Are you OK?" That kind of stuff. OTOH, leveling up your validation game is the way to address it: "What did you notice when we saw Doggo? How did he act? What are your thoughts about it? How did you feel?" Where instead of telling the kids how to feel about it, you let them process reality with you, and realize Mom's inconsistencies on their own.

Do you have contact info for the foster place? Consider talking with them independently about what happened. Could be something like: "We've had struggles at home and unfortunately it looks like Doggo was brought into it. While our home may have too much unpredictability for Doggo right now, the kids and I care about him very much and want him back in our lives in the future. Can you help us care for him for the next X months, or find somewhere that can? I want to be really clear that I am not OK with him getting adopted out, yet I'm concerned about how he might be brought into the middle of conflicts if I take him home right now."

The foster home may understand that domestic conflicts impact people's ability to safely house pets for a time.

Yeah, sad as it is, it sounds like the reality in your home is that coordinating communication with your wife towards the kids is not happening -- not about the dog, not about the divorce, nothing. You may need to start down a parallel track of telling the kids what they need to know, whether your W agrees or not.

Her current power is in stonewalling any kind of getting to parental agreement, and then acting like a loose cannon. This puts you on the back heel and your energy flows into reacting defensively after the fact.

I wonder if letting go of trying to get agreement, and instead being proactive towards the kids' needs, would change the dynamic. She wouldn't like it, of course, but you would regain some agency and the kids would get that compassionate communication from you ahead of time, instead of also being shocked and unsettled by Mom's unpredictability.

Really sorry it went down that way.