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Author Topic: he's been drinking a lot, I spoke about it and he flipped and left  (Read 3187 times)
Breakingpoint13
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« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2021, 03:37:25 PM »

Black orchid.

I wouldn’t wish this experience on anyone but unless someone has been in a relationship with a Bdp or understood that they are co dependant as to the reasons why they stay then they won’t understand.

What they are saying is coming from a good place and is something that you would also wish for a person to understand if the shoe was on the other foot.

It’s extremely hard to talk to people about this. I’m in the same boat, in fact I can’t talk to any of my friends about it because it just confuses me more, I forget this is a mental illness and I start worrying about things that I can not control or tbh are my problem. I’d recommend  finding a professional to speak to it just stick to this board..

That is just my personal experience but honestly I feel you!  This board and a few individuals who inbox me have been god sends
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« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2021, 04:36:12 AM »

No one is supportive, everyone just says your better off without him and why did you put up with him so long

hello blackorchid,

I understand its hard to hear that from our friends and family.    I heard it too, or some version of it at least.

still those are legitimate opinions and concerns.    I am guessing some of the same thinking brings you here.     its important to be honest about the challenges facing you.    sometimes that honesty is unpleasant.     

this is one of my favorite quotes here on this website, its about having realistic expectations:

Excerpt
A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

its very important to be realistic and deal with the practical reality that is right in front of us.    even if it is unpleasant.    especially if it is unpleasant.   

only you can say for sure if this is a ~bad~ person behaving badly, a mentally ill person acting out, an immature person being childish, an alcoholic in the middle of a bender.   or some combination of all of the above.    that's up to you to figure out and make your peace with.    it is up to you to accept the relationship for what it is.    not hope for it to be something different.  or hope your friends and family will react different.

this is very hard stuff.

it sounds like you are in regular contact with him again?

Also, a couple of hours later that night he came into the bedroom and woke me up. I was half asleep. I thought he was telling me that he was leaving in 2 days. On Thursday he said that he told me I had two days to decide if I want to be with him
Or not and if not he will move out. That wasn’t what I heard… part of why he’s saying this is what I wanted. I didn’t contact him within the two days…

let's look at this through BPDFamily eyes.    how is it helping you to have this conversation?  do you think this is another version of the blame game?  who is right and who is wrong?    is this another distorted reality?    how does it help him to engage in this conversation?    is it re-enforcing his distorted reality?  allowing him to shift blame?   "I'm drinking too much, gambling too much and giving you the silent treatment but You didn't respond right to something I did (or may not have done) at 2AM so its your fault."

btw these are not rhetorical questions.   I am really hoping you think about the questions I pose and take a shot at answering them.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

'ducks
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« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2021, 05:12:59 AM »

No not in contact. sorry I should have been clearer he said that when he was collecting his things on Thursday about a conversation 3 weeks ago.

He’s only messaged because he needed the code for the online streaming platform.


The conversation in question doesn’t help me. It just makes me rethink things and go round and round things in my head getting nowhere as he has refused to have an actual conversation with me for a month now.  Yes I think it allows him to distort his reality and blame me so that he has done nothing wrong. Even when I answered I didn’t understand that. Ok I’ll answer now stay. He said it was too late. Maybe it’s a way of him projecting onto me. So I’m at fault. And im wrong and fits in with the narrative of that that’s he’s telling himself right now.

I understand where my friends and family are coming from and unless you’ve lived through it I don’t think there is a way to understand.

I’m trying to use this time now to focus on me instead of focusing on him and worrying about him. There’s nothing that I can do to help him now. If I contact him he’s angry anyway so I’m not contacting him….
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« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2021, 10:47:32 AM »



He’s only messaged because he needed the code for the online streaming platform.

 

Did you provide him the code?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2021, 12:50:22 PM »

Yes I gave him the code  he just said thanks. Then later that night said this is what you wanted. I did nothing. Please don’t force me. Like this, I’m good
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« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2021, 04:22:03 PM »



I'm still getting caught up on this thread and your story.  I'm curious to know more about how come he can't get his own codes and other administrative tasks.

I'm trying to wrap my head around someone that refuses to have "actual conversations" with you about important matters, yet still appears to expect you to provide him with basic administrative services.  Perhaps I'm missing something.


Perhaps more importantly...I'd be interested in your answers to BabyDucks questions.

btw these are not rhetorical questions.   I am really hoping you think about the questions I pose and take a shot at answering them.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

Best,

FF
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« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2021, 12:07:07 AM »

Hi  formflier. So the streaming service is linked to my email and not his, so he has no way of getting the codes.

No contact yesterday again.  I’ve just woken up and need to go and walk the dog. Then I’ll sit and write a longer reply
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« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2021, 03:13:12 AM »

 I just stumbled across an article elsewhere about object constancy, which is the ability to believe that a relationship is stable and intact despite setbacks or disagreements. For those who lack object constancy, any kind of distance can trigger them to re-experience the original pain of being left alone/dismissed/abandoned. Which further destabilizes them.  I feel like this makes total sense regarding him right now and the distance between us, which he has created by not coming home.  Object constancy, takes its name from object permanence, which is the understanding that objects are there even when we can't see them, babies don't have this understanding and so once they can't see an object they think it doesn't exist anymore. So object constancy is this for emotions. I feel like this explains how he splits black and white, and can say it's over, not coming home; he distanced himself and so now the emotions don't exist for him? I don't know if I'm able to articulate this very well right now, I hope you can follow.  Maybe that's why he yo-yoed back and forth saying he was coming home and then not coming so many times?

 I don't know when I read it it kind of made sense with how he was talking about being a footballer in the present tense when he came last week

 

as I read this I think this is a big  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post).   how do you see it?

what you are describing sounds like a pretty severe break from reality.     if he isn't aware that he isn't a footballer any longer he has decompensated


 I only rather recently in the past couple of years found out that when he was born he was sent to live with his grandmother until he was 7 and would fling himself at his mum when she came to visit and had to be peeled off her legs.  He refused to acknowledge his sister ( 2 years younger) who lived with his dad. I feel this is the root of his abandonment issues.


still those are legitimate opinions and concerns.    I am guessing some of the same thinking brings you here.     its important to be honest about the challenges facing you.    sometimes that honesty is unpleasant.     

let's look at this through BPDFamily eyes.    how is it helping you to have this conversation?  do you think this is another version of the blame game?  who is right and who is wrong?    is this another distorted reality?    how does it help him to engage in this conversation?    is it re-enforcing his distorted reality?  allowing him to shift blame?   "I'm drinking too much, gambling too much and giving you the silent treatment but You didn't respond right to something I did (or may not have done) at 2AM so its your fault."



ok so for your questions.

The conversations when he was here last Thursday really didn't help me. They have left me with more questions, which ultimately leave me more upset.  I think he was looking to blame everything on me and that fits in with another reply you wrote BabyDucks about him searching for something to blame as he knows something isn't right and so his thoughts became more and more like rambles. So the more he talks the more it becomes like a distorted reality and it serves neither of us for me to engage in the conversation.  Maybe it helps him somehow to blame me?

I think at his core he will know that his drinking & debts are the root cause and he will be feeling bad for them and trying to mask them.

But what I think now is just hearsay.  It's the 22nd June today, the initial argument was on the 23rd May so it has now been 1 month without actual, purposeful interaction.

I feel like he was waiting for something from me, hence sending the message "this is what you wanted, I didn't do anything" on Saturday but I don't know what he wanted. Anytime I contacted him he pulled away.  I tried calling him a few times in the first two weeks and he didn't answer the call.  He would message afterwards saying why did I call and I would say to talk and his reply was always the same, I don't want to talk to you.

So I left him alone hoping that he would calm down. 



With regards to him at work, I don't think that he is coping well at all.  I was surprised also to hear how paranoid he was.  I haven't spoke to his friend again so I don't know what is happening this week.  His friend says the more he speaks to me, the more he realises that he has a big internal dilemma. He says his problems right now are work and money and his family and he is projecting them all on to me.  His hotel relies on Russian tourist and at the beginning of May, Russia stopped tourists coming here.  It has been announced that from tomorrow they can visit again, so maybe that will take some of the worry off him.


To be completely honest I don't know whether I should touch base with him or just let him be right now.  I'm trying to keep myself busy and do the things that make me feel if not better, at least towards ok (does that make sense). But I'm struggling. I feel lonely and sad that we're at this point again. I was honestly so surprised that he didn't deregulate last year with the pandemic.

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« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2021, 03:43:24 AM »

Also I forgot to say. When he messaged last week that he had took his things. He added I’ll come to see you tomorrow. Which obv he hasn’t. I thought it was strange that he was leaving with his things, I was in the vicinity but he said he would come to see me tomorrow……
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« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2021, 05:07:29 AM »

I feel like this explains how he splits black and white, and can say it's over, not coming home; he distanced himself and so now the emotions don't exist for him? I don't know if I'm able to articulate this very well right now, I hope you can follow.  Maybe that's why he yo-yoed back and forth saying he was coming home and then not coming so many times?

Yes I can certainly follow.   Smiling (click to insert in post)   thanks for the thoughtful reply blackorchid, I do appreciate that.

object consistency and object permanence do play a role in BPD.    for a person suffering from BPD, they are trying to deal with their harmfully intense chaotic emotions, their painfully intense confusing emotions by managing the distance between you.    mind you,  its not a good approach to managing the emotional upheaval but in a way it works for them.   they 'go away'  and the chaotic emotions lessen...


The conversations when he was here last Thursday really didn't help me. They have left me with more questions, which ultimately leave me more upset. 

I think this is important insight blackorchid.    what its telling me is that if you follow him down the rabbit hole,  if you attempt to engage in his disordered reality it makes things worse.

I think he was looking to blame everything on me and that fits in with another reply you wrote BabyDucks about him searching for something to blame as he knows something isn't right and so his thoughts became more and more like rambles. So the more he talks the more it becomes like a distorted reality and it serves neither of us for me to engage in the conversation.  Maybe it helps him somehow to blame me?

people who are organized at the borderline level,  people who process life and events at the borderline level are emotionally underdeveloped and do not have "adult" emotional skills - .   they do not have the emotional maturity to say 'oh I shouldn't have done this/that, I made a mistake'.    if he can blame you for being the cause of all the problems in the relationship he protects himself.   please understand its not a decision he makes to blame you,  its more an automatic defense mechanism.   


I feel like he was waiting for something from me, hence sending the message "this is what you wanted, I didn't do anything" on Saturday but I don't know what he wanted.

compare this with what you know about him being sent to live with his grandmother.   is it possible that what he learned at a young age is that people who are supposed to love him,  or people that say that they love him are... unreliable... don't stay around...  leave him.    and that he is unconsciously reliving this pattern over and over again?    this time by creating it himself.

this is complicated stuff, but basically there is a school of psychological thought that people relive over and over again the patterns they learned as children.   its not a deliberate conscious decision, its more a deeply embedded pattern we fall back on automatically.   

I was honestly so surprised that he didn't deregulate last year with the pandemic.

this is interesting.   I am wondering if you are saying that you expect him to dysregulate and accept that this is part of your relationship?     I think in the time since you have been on this site regularly the boards have been reorganized, still this is the high level problem solving board, where the focus is on  seeking constructive relationship advice.  and finding solutions.

Of course you can post here.    its perfectly fine to post on any board here.  simply as a reminder I am going to paste in the definitions of the boards.

Excerpt
The " Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup" board is for members looking to solve specific relationship problems, to be coached on the use of relationship tools, and to examine their role in relationship conflict.

The "Conflicted or Just Tolerating a Relationship" board is for those seeking some emotional support and coping skills, but are not motivated for problem solving or learning relations tools at this time - or who are conflicted about staying in the relationship.


my hope is that this give you a sense of which would be a better support for you.

When he messaged last week that he had took his things. He added I’ll come to see you tomorrow. Which obv he hasn’t. I thought it was strange that he was leaving with his things, I was in the vicinity but he said he would come to see me tomorrow……

are you surprised by this?  do you expect him to behave logically?   rationally?   all the time?   some of the time?     being on the receiving end of the silent treatment is painful.  it is, after all considered a form of abuse.    still this push/pull cycle that you guys engage is a little bit more than silent treatment.   he pushes away and you get upset and try to pull him closer,.. which triggers him more and he pushes harder and you pull harder... at least that is how it appears to me.     would you say I got that right?

'ducks
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« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2021, 06:26:03 AM »

Hi Babyducks


I think this is important insight blackorchid.    what its telling me is that if you follow him down the rabbit hole,  if you attempt to engage in his disordered reality it makes things worse.

Yes it definitely makes it worse for me.


compare this with what you know about him being sent to live with his grandmother.   is it possible that what he learned at a young age is that people who are supposed to love him,  or people that say that they love him are... unreliable... don't stay around...  leave him.    and that he is unconsciously reliving this pattern over and over again?    this time by creating it himself.

this is complicated stuff, but basically there is a school of psychological thought that people relive over and over again the patterns they learned as children.   its not a deliberate conscious decision, its more a deeply embedded pattern we fall back on automatically.   


Yes, that could be and I think that the money plays into that too.. His father was bankrupt when he was 12 and his dad ran away to Belgium and left his mum and him to deal with it.  That's when the family began to rely on him for money and I think its part of the reason why he still thinks it's his responsibility to pay for it now. As his finances are bad now that may be a reason for a bigger trigger this time round when they asked.

I think that's why he rages at me that he doesn't need me as he has his family and they will help him.  Actually, as far as I can see, they have never helped him and are never interested in helping him. I think that that's the hurt small inner child in him and has always longed for that family dynamic.



this is interesting.   I am wondering if you are saying that you expect him to dysregulate and accept that this is part of your relationship?     


I wouldn't see that I accept it, just that the fear of it is always lingering in my mind and that I'm mindful of it.  I don't want this to happen again and again.  I don't want this to be part of the relationship.  I was hoping for him to see a therapist but he wouldn't go. He kept saying for the past few months that he would go but then every time it was his day off the excuses would start. I do want to better the relationship.
 



are you surprised by this?  do you expect him to behave logically?   rationally?   all the time?   some of the time?     being on the receiving end of the silent treatment is painful.  it is, after all considered a form of abuse.    still this push/pull cycle that you guys engage is a little bit more than silent treatment.   he pushes away and you get upset and try to pull him closer,.. which triggers him more and he pushes harder and you pull harder... at least that is how it appears to me.     would you say I got that right?

'ducks

yes I would say you got that right...I am very mindful not to initiate any contact because of that
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« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2021, 10:45:39 AM »

hi,

when i said last week that he had taken everything, i meant from the wardrobe,  later when I was in the bathroom I saw that he had taken nothing from there... and he has taken hes winter clothing, medications etc.

He has just sent me a voice memo " sorry can you put all my things in 1 or 2 boxes because I don't want to come and take everything, maybe my friend can come and collect it. thank you"
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« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2021, 10:57:02 AM »

Hi  formflier. So the streaming service is linked to my email and not his, so he has no way of getting the codes.
 

Wouldn't it be easier/less complicated for him to get his own email..own codes..own (fill in the blank)?

No criticism here..just me scratching my head a bit.  

Best,

FF
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« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2021, 11:08:15 AM »

Wouldn't it be easier/less complicate for him to get his own email..own codes..own (fill in the blank)?

No criticism here..just me scratching my head a bit. 

Best,

FF

I guess I haven't broached the subject with him.  He used my email months ago to set it up, as he had used his for the 3 month free trail so did mine to get it again  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) I mean if he wanted I'm sure there's a way to change the email... I dont use the platform is Turkish TV which I don't watch.

Does anyone have any sugestions on how to reply to the voice memo... The medications are not important btw, the doctors just prescribe so much here... creams for muscle aches, etc.
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« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2021, 11:11:09 AM »


Hey blackorchird

As babyducks mentioned, lots of this is complicated and sometimes very nuanced stuff.

A fraught place for mixed and unwanted messages.  Which is a reason to clarify your goal when you do get to speak with him.

Our advice to you if your deepest desire is to reconnect romantically with him would be very different than if you were ambivalent about the future of your romantic relationship.  No rush to decide...yet I would encourage you to be deliberate about "what do I want".

In the meantime I would invite you to consider an area that could be a mixed message.

See the quotes below.  A few things to consider.

  so it has now been 1 month without actual, purposeful interaction.

He has just sent me a voice memo " sorry can you put all my things in 1 or 2 boxes because I don't want to come and take everything, maybe my friend can come and collect it. thank you"

If you put his stuff in boxes...will he perceive that as helpful or as you "sending a signal" that you don't want him?  Will his state of mind likely influence this?

Does it seem odd to you that after a month of "no meaningful conversation" that he can still reach out to you and get codes, get things boxed up and other things that he appears to be capable of doing on his own...but perhaps "doesn't want to".

I'm not telling you one course of action is better than the other with the box request.  I DO encourage you to be thoughtful about it before deciding either way.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2021, 11:29:51 AM »

Hey FF,


Our advice to you if your deepest desire is to reconnect romantically with him would be very different than if you were ambivalent about the future of your romantic relationship.  No rush to decide...yet I would encourage you to be deliberate about "what do I want".


I mean as stupid as I am for it, it would be to reconnect romantically with him.  I feel like after his last split in 2019 we were really in a better place and that's where I would like to get back to... which is probably why it hurts so much this time.  Actually the week that covid really hit here we  had found our wedding venue and were about to send out the invitations.  I finally thought the path ahead was smooth...



In the meantime I would invite you to consider an area that could be a mixed message.

See the quotes below.  A few things to consider.

If you put his stuff in boxes...will he perceive that as helpful or as you "sending a signal" that you don't want him?  Will his state of mind likely influence this?



Yes, i can see that. It seems like that would be a signal of he can't come back.

Does it seem odd to you that after a month of "no meaningful conversation" that he can still reach out to you and get codes, get things boxed up and other things that he appears to be capable of doing on his own...but perhaps "doesn't want to".


yes, now that you put it like that it does seem odd and does lead me to being more confused. 
In 2019 he said too that his friend was coming but then he came. 

The more I read through the messages the past month, the more confused I become. In the days he stayed at the hotel in the 1st week he was still calling me all the pet names. But then hostile when I responded.  Not answering my calls and when I would ask at 11pm where are you, he got mad.

I know it's a pointless wish but I just really wish we could sit down and talk.  The week before the argument he was drinking a lot and he knew I was mad with him one morning when he was going to work, just for the amount of drink and smoking in the living room, he sent me a message, im going to stop this behaviour, let's start therapy together.  I just wish he would get back to that point.

Even the 2nd week of the fight he was talking about therapy again, so I did a quick google search and found a couple's therapy nearby... said I would be willing to try it in Turkish. Sent him the screenshot,  He said maybe then replied it's too expensive. 

and then he didnt reply about it again...

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« Reply #76 on: June 22, 2021, 11:35:19 AM »

Just curious, his friend at work has just messaged me to see if I'm ok as I had my vaccine today...

He said he has told him a few times to come home, to talk to me, he told me last week that my BPD had mentioned to him about therapy last month and he has said to him go and do the therapy together...

im just wondering if this would also push him away? Is his friend doing this helpful or not? He told me on Friday that he would try to talk to him and I told him not too...

I know from his family that he refuses to talk about it with them, he'll just hang up the phone and gives no explanation as to why he left or where he is staying...
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« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2021, 02:57:35 AM »

If anyone has any advice on how to respond to the voice memo

He has just sent me a voice memo " sorry can you put all my things in 1 or 2 boxes because I don't want to come and take everything, maybe my friend can come and collect it. thank you"


Late last night he put a sad emoji reaction to my Instagram story of our dog trembling and shaking during the thunderstorm (she’s petrified every time) and I sent a video back of her lying in bed next to me. Saying she’s calmed now she’s ok. He just replied. She’s relaxed now. That’s good.

But I still haven’t responded to the voice memo
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« Reply #78 on: June 23, 2021, 10:54:34 AM »


Does the voice memo need a response?

Would you be ok with not responding?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #79 on: June 23, 2021, 11:23:09 AM »

Well he’s asking if I can pack his remaining things and if a friend can come and get them…. I could ignore it but don’t see what that would serve
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« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2021, 11:44:25 AM »


If it bugs you that he doesn't have "actual conversations" with you, then you could require actual conversations for him to enjoy benefits of the relationship.

Right now you apparently are serving as his code getter, box packer (and perhaps other things) without requiring anything of him.  So..he has no incentive to have conversations with you...because he gets what he wants without that.

From time to time in all relationships (dysfunction or otherwise)...stuff comes up and we just help out.  However..I get the vibe this is a pattern that has gone on for a while.

Am I close?  I might not be...so please guide me to a better understanding if I'm off.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2021, 12:24:20 PM »

No I think you’re close
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« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2021, 01:04:40 PM »

I'll pause and let others weigh in, because as others have said...this is complicated stuff and whatever pathway you pick for individual issues..needs to be consistent/linked to the best possible outcome for what you want for the future of the relationship.

Slowing down...deliberately considering your actions (or inactions) and making sure your choices are consistent with your values...is a wonderful exercise.

What have you learned about yourself in the last month (since things went weird with him)?

What have you learned about him in the last month?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2021, 02:07:17 PM »

Thank you FF and would be ever so grateful to hear the thoughts of others.

I’ll try and answer that tomorrow. I’m getting a migraine and so can’t think straight right now but didn’t want you to think I was ignoring you.
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« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2021, 02:52:58 AM »

If it bugs you that he doesn't have "actual conversations" with you, then you could require actual conversations for him to enjoy benefits of the relationship.

Right now you apparently are serving as his code getter, box packer (and perhaps other things) without requiring anything of him.  So..he has no incentive to have conversations with you...because he gets what he wants without that.


Am I right in thinking that you mean I shouldn't engage when he sends messages like that, unless we are actually talking?


Which made me reflect on a point that babyducks made...


You are missing his message.    He is talking about his feelings.   You are replying with facts and fact based questions.   You didn't acknowledge his feelings at all.   And immediately flipped the conversation to facts.  It's his home to.    What new house.

this probably struck him as invalidating.    He is worried about his clothes.    He is worried about seeing you.   

As you know communication with a pwBPD takes special attention and skills.   It's important to acknowledge their concerns with out becoming responsible for them.

How could you have helped him problem solve this?

I feel like I am missing something, he is sending short messages to me, only about his belongings, I don't understand how this is about his feelings...





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« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2021, 06:09:35 AM »

here is what I see happening from your descriptions.    lets see if this matches up with what you think is happening.

Your boyfriend 'flips out' or overloads or dysregulates when something overwhelms him and he immediately and abruptly ceases contact with you.   he doesn't just do this with you but does it with his family also.   he runs away and hides.  but he keeps up a string of low stream messages about needing to stay away.   and needing to have zero contact with the people who 'hurt him'.    every time the idea of contact with you comes up he 'flips' further out and pushes you harder away.

so what's going on under all that... what emotion (or what idea if that feels more comfortable for you) is driving all this - I must social distance from you I can't see you or talk to you ?  I am sooOoo afraid of seeing you I must send another grown man to get my things?

he's told you a lot lately that you are the cause of all his problems?   yet he is willing to engage in text or voice mails to get his stuff... let me ask... anything among these remaining possession that is so very important?    anything that he couldn't replace?     anything with huge sentimental value?

we talked a little bit upstream about how he manages emotions.    being in close personal relationships overwhelms him... so he manages his emotions by how much contact he has with you.   and with his family.   what I see happening, and happening over and over again is he 'flips out'   and then goes away until he regains his equilibrium.   he uses the isolation to manage his emotional state.    he uses the amount of contact he has with you and his family to cope with what is going on within him.   he pretty much told you that when he said:

Excerpt
He messaged me Friday night to get a code sent to my email for a Netflix type thing and then after I sent it he responded this is what you wanted. I have done nothing.  Please don’t force me. I’m good like this.

I am good like this... I am good alone without the stress of trying to maintain emotional relationships.   Please don't force me to be in contact.    I can't handle it.   

Here are my suggestions:

  • if you haven't replied to the last box up my things message, I would leave it alone for now.   if he tries again,  and I suspect he will,...  I would have a SET message ready
  • so sorry I can't remember, if you don't have a therapist already, I would suggest you find professional help for yourself.   immediately.    today.   concentrate on looking passed all the surface stuff to identify what's really going on.
  • I would not attempt to 'force' him to do anything but focus on providing healthy and calming messages that give him opportunities to make better choices
  • journal - if you don't already journal, ... start.   this is the place to dump all your stress and negative thoughts, to vent your frustrations
  • find a copy of Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist.   Read it.   https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=203887.0
  • switch to looking at the long term.   do not be hypervigilant to every text or voice mail.  play the long game.    this is a process.   there will be set backs along the way.    think long term and creating a more healthy relationship

I'll stop here waiting for you feed back.   no hurry.   take time to digest all of this.

'ducks
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« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2021, 06:22:20 AM »

I feel like I am missing something, he is sending short messages to me, only about his belongings, I don't understand how this is about his feelings...

let's back up a step and look at this message he sent:

Excerpt
He messaged me Friday night to get a code sent to my email for a Netflix type thing and then after I sent it he responded this is what you wanted. I have done nothing.  Please don’t force me. I’m good like this.

what's the important part of this message?   the netflix code thing?   or the second part?   I am going to say the second part:

"this is what you wanted" -  you wanted me to leave,  no one wants me to stay, no one has ever really wanted me to stay.  pwBPD don't typically feel loved or worthy of love.   no matter how much you try.

"I have done nothing"   - its not my fault.    it can't be my fault.    whatever is going on with the debts and the drinking and the gambling well... I have done nothing wrong.   pwBPD feel like if they make a mistake they are a mistake... and have no value.   they can not handle shame, blame and responsibility.

"please don't force me" - I can't be in relationship with you.   I don't know how to do it.    I can't argue with you again.    I am emotionally chaotic and only quiet makes me feel better.

"I'm good like this" -  I am good on my own.    not responsible to anyone,   not in real contact with anyone.     I am better by myself.

I am not saying I read all his messages correctly but I am sure that this wasn't about some netflix code.   he used it as a pretext to convey another message.   and my guess is he is doing the same with the stuff he left in the bathroom.   

we are fact driven people... its easier to deal with the facts... what is the netflix code,... who is the owner of the account.   I am not saying that isn't important I am saying that's not the whole message here.

'ducks

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« Reply #87 on: June 24, 2021, 07:00:54 AM »

Your boyfriend 'flips out' or overloads or dysregulates when something overwhelms him and he immediately and abruptly ceases contact with you.   he doesn't just do this with you but does it with his family also.   he runs away and hides.  but he keeps up a string of low stream messages about needing to stay away.   and needing to have zero contact with the people who 'hurt him'.    every time the idea of contact with you comes up he 'flips' further out and pushes you harder away.

so what's going on under all that... what emotion (or what idea if that feels more comfortable for you) is driving all this - I must social distance from you I can't see you or talk to you ?  I am sooOoo afraid of seeing you I must send another grown man to get my things?


Hi Babyducks,

thank you. This makes perfect sense and I guess I couldn't get beyond my feelings' to see through the mist of his messages to understand that.


he's told you a lot lately that you are the cause of all his problems?   yet he is willing to engage in text or voice mails to get his stuff... let me ask... anything among these remaining possession that is so very important?    anything that he couldn't replace?     anything with huge sentimental value?


No there's nothing here.  I'm presuming after not staying at home for so long before he came to collect his things that he bought a new toothbrush and other essential toiletries.  We're entering summer, winter clothes are not needed for quite a few months now. There's nothing sentimental either. Unfortunately (for me more so) when he did this in 2019 he took our box of sentimental things, long distance cards and letters from our early days, photos, all little things that you put into that type of box and binned it. I was heartbroken. Things like that really do mean a lot to me...


we talked a little bit upstream about how he manages emotions.    being in close personal relationships overwhelms him... so he manages his emotions by how much contact he has with you.   and with his family.   what I see happening, and happening over and over again is he 'flips out'   and then goes away until he regains his equilibrium.   he uses the isolation to manage his emotional state.    he uses the amount of contact he has with you and his family to cope with what is going on within him.   he pretty much told you that when he said:

I am good like this... I am good alone without the stress of trying to maintain emotional relationships.   Please don't force me to be in contact.    I can't handle it. 


again that makes sense. So I need to read between the lines, or rather read the unwritten parts of the messages...
  

Here are my suggestions:

  • if you haven't replied to the last box up my things message, I would leave it alone for now.   if he tries again,  and I suspect he will,...  I would have a SET message ready


Could you, and other members too, help me on what SET message to have ready for when he does respond?

I'm not forcing him to do anything. I haven't contacted him as it just aggravates him. A letter has come for him today so I may message him to let him know...

I am trying to find a therapist, but am struggling to find one. There's no English speaking ones that I can find here so I'm going to look online...
I do journal but the past couple of weeks I have felt so exhausted and haven't been able to find the time/energy to do so. I will start journalling and meditating again. My days just feel so long. By the time work finished and I'm home and walk our dog, most times it 9pm and I haven't even ate dinner. Now with the summer holidays started and my work schedule changing to purely day time lessons I should be able to rectify this and find balance again.

I'll get the book on Kindle I searched for it. Will be faster than the actual copy being posted. Thank you


[/list]
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« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2021, 07:09:57 AM »

let's back up a step and look at this message he sent:

what's the important part of this message?   the netflix code thing?   or the second part?   I am going to say the second part:

"this is what you wanted" -  you wanted me to leave,  no one wants me to stay, no one has ever really wanted me to stay.  pwBPD don't typically feel loved or worthy of love.   no matter how much you try.

"I have done nothing"   - its not my fault.    it can't be my fault.    whatever is going on with the debts and the drinking and the gambling well... I have done nothing wrong.   pwBPD feel like if they make a mistake they are a mistake... and have no value.   they can not handle shame, blame and responsibility.

"please don't force me" - I can't be in relationship with you.   I don't know how to do it.    I can't argue with you again.    I am emotionally chaotic and only quiet makes me feel better.

"I'm good like this" -  I am good on my own.    not responsible to anyone,   not in real contact with anyone.     I am better by myself.

I am not saying I read all his messages correctly but I am sure that this wasn't about some netflix code.   he used it as a pretext to convey another message.   and my guess is he is doing the same with the stuff he left in the bathroom.   

we are fact driven people... its easier to deal with the facts... what is the netflix code,... who is the owner of the account.   I am not saying that isn't important I am saying that's not the whole message here.

'ducks




This makes so much sense and explains why out of everything that was said in the argument that all he "remembers" from it was the f$%K off that I said.  So because he always feels unworthy/unloved/unwanted he is always waiting for that to come..?

Conversely, because of the past I'm always waiting for him to up sticks and leave again.  My pain of that is what caused me to erupt and said it in the argument in reaction to him saying that he was going to leave.

I would say from the things he was saying when he was in the house last week that that makes sense, he made a mistake and so is a mistake.  Then he projects it quickly on to me, to make it easier for him to handle?

Reading this makes me feel so sad for him. For how much turmoil he has within him and for how much I just long to help him.  For him not to feel like this anymore.


Thank you for this valuable insight
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« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2021, 07:23:24 AM »

Could you, and other members too, help me on what SET message to have ready for when he does respond?

A letter has come for him today so I may message him to let him know...

SET.   Support Empathy Truth.   Usually the truth part is the easiest to come up with and we frequently skip the Support and the Empathy and dive right into the truth.     Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Support :   You've said its important to stay away -   (notice the sentence starts with You... not I... the 'You" changes the focus.. onto him and his message)
 
Empathy:   I understand that is what you want right now (you don't have to agree with him,  you do have to acknowledge his message)   

Truth:   Still, a letter has come for you today that you should see. ( Use the word Still, not the word But...  'But' negates the things you just said prior and you don't want to do that.  again notice the lack of I statements right now... and the amount of you statements?

Support:   I want to get this letter to you in the best possible way.   (you are still supporting his current position) that contact is impossible.

Empathy:   I know this is hard on both of us.

Truth:  Here is what I can do... I can put the letter in XYZ for you to pick up... or I can give the letter ABC to give to you.    which would you rather?

obviously you would have to tweak the language here to make it something you would feel comfortable actually saying... use your words.   I just provided an example.    when you give him choices in the last truth statement,  only pick two.   do not say 'how do you want to get it?' because right now his executive function is compromised and he can't figure out how he wants to get it.    and when you pick two choices make sure they are reasonable for you... not something you have to run across town or jump through hoops to make happen.
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