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THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PERSONALITY DISORDERS
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Author Topic: BPD BEHAVIORS: Did she ever love me? [romantic partners]  (Read 86804 times)
DreamFlyer99
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« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2014, 07:16:56 PM »

Just wow. I don't know how I missed seeing this workshop for the whole time I've been a member here. Guess I was just ready to see it.

Big thanks for Oceanheart opening up on the topic.

I noticed anomalies throughout the nearly 38 years I've been together with my husband (undiagnosed but lots of traits of BPD!) Things like the power struggle in so many areas, or the inability to get to the level we should be at by this long in a r/s. I had no idea what I was dealing with until the past few years as his rages have grown more frequent and I opened up to my therapist.

Now that I can look back I can see there have been multiple people with PDs in my life--mother, sister-in-law, mother-in-law, possibly stepdaughter, husband, husband's first wife (which all of course makes me wonder if my therapist is just being nice to me in saying I don't have BPD.) And looking at relationships with all of them I have to say that they have all loved in the best ways they knew how. But what do I know, I thought it was love when I was a child and sick and my mom would let me use a special blanket--not spend time with me, not hold me, but put a chair by the couch with a glass of water and let me use her special blanket. So i'm guessing i'm fairly impaired in recognizing true "love you for you" love.

The passion, the heat and cold of the pwBPD that I read about here really speaks to me, as does the need-based r/s. All those things explain pretty much my whole life...

Thanks to all who participated in this workshop! It took me a while to get through it all but it was so worth it. And here's to my better-prepared next 60 years, just in case I live to 120! smiley

dreamflyer99
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This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question.

Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board.

You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

blackmirror

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« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2014, 12:48:12 AM »

This helps me put thart question to rest an reading other  peoples posts brought me to this.  If my BPD stbx wife was abused badly enough to change her brain development where it seems that everything we do has the opposite effect.  Than you have to apply that to her as well.  To her abuse is love.   Is that not confusing?  So never talking to youj again and letting go is the ultimate sacrifice.  If you had to do everything backwards would you not be extremely stressed out.  And it helps with whay she can sleep with people so easily and maybe not you.  It helps me to move on and not hate her.  And quit asking why.
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I want to be like Kanye.  I'll be the King of Me always.  Do what I want and have it my way. Like Kanye.
DreamFlyer99
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« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2014, 12:37:38 PM »

blackmirror,

it's so good to find a place to "put" our unanswerable questions, and to find some kind of peace with the situation.
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Green_eyes


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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2014, 12:20:13 AM »

This workshop has been so incredibly helpful for me at such a difficult time in my life. Thank you to all who have taken the time to write their thoughtful "two cents." I truly appreciate it.

I am currently going through an incredibly heartbreaking break up with my exBpd fiancé. Now that there is actual distance between us due to a protection order I was forced to put into place, I have been seeing things more clearly at times and seeing the relationship for what is was. So,writes seeing things in a very black and white way helps me to process my grief in losing what I still feel is the love of my life who also happens to be the father of my 7 month old son.

Sometimes I wonder if he ever really loved me for ME? If he ever truly loved his son? I want to believe he didn't right now because it helps me to move forward and accept him for what he is.

That he cannot love anyone because he doesn't love himself.

I drift back and forth and go from aching for him to wishing we never met. I can't understand how he could simply up and leave the territory we live when he states that he "loves us and wants us to be a family again and that he misses his son so much it is killing him." The protection order never stopped him from seeing his son. It simply kept him from living in my home as I needed to ensure that my child be safe and secure here.

If he truly loved his child would he be able to simply walk away? Actually fly away on a plane?i remember him talking about our son and saying that he "loves him so much that he is terrified that something bad will happen to him." Bpd fear of abandonment at its finest. He often opened up to me about how he was so scared of me leaving him and that he knows that he "drains the life" out of people. He knows he has patterns and seems to want to change but gets stuck in the talking and never follows through in his actions.

I have done a lot of soul searching and see my own role in the relationship and how it felt good to be needed and be there for him and to stand by him no matter what because as he often said "we made the best team." I know that I have some issues with codependency, but I have never been in more of an abusive relationship in my life. I suppose I got addicted to the crumbs that were thrown in my direction, the glimpses of the man I fell for...

He has been capable of being "selfless" for me at times when I have needed him but I find myself continuously questioning the validity of everything and wondering if it was all just one big lie.

I recognized that after the initial phase of all encompassing new love the cracks began to form and the downward spiral followed. Moving in together, having a child together, these were the two major life events that led to major unravelling. Despite it all I stood by him, went to therapy with him, and ultimately enabled him more.

Does it mean that someone loves you if they throw you a surprise birthday party? They get you flowers to cheer you up when they know you are down? They cook dinner for your entire smile? They care for you when you are sick and take you to the hospital? They pull it together to help you deliver your child even when you can see that the event is triggering major fear?

What about if the same person who did all these things also does things to deliberately push you away? To create arguments and drama? To project their issues onto you... To physically abuse you when you are pregnant and when you are holding your baby? It sounds horrendous to imagine that these two people are the same...

Facts and feelings are two distinct things. Words and actions are also two distinct things.

At times when I want to believe that his love was real I justify those terribly actions as being Bpd related and I find myself splitting my ex into the man I fell in love with and the man with BPD.

I want to believe that he loved me. That he loves my son. I want to believe that we were not props used to make him appear to have a full life and to have his needs met. I want to believe that our love wasn't about control.

We have been NC for a week now after not speaking for close to one month (the longest we have ever gone). The last message he wrote me was filled with anger over a silly misunderstanding and his final words were that he was "done with this." He has since contacted a mutual friend asking how his son and I are doing...

Again, why? I don't understand. I can't keep trying to figure it out...

He fooled me in the beginning because he told me about his BPD and stated he was in therapy and on medication. Unfortunately this was only partially true and his medication was taken sporadically and his therapy attendance only at times of crisis. Ultimately, his actions never matched his words and I can only look at his actions from this point forward in order to protect myself from further abuse and to ensure that my baby has a happy and stable life.

I suppose for me to love is to behave in ways that are ultimately loving. If there is no respect or consideration, (at least on somewhat constant basis) how can there be love?

I am left to flip flop from believing that he did love me/love us to feeling that if he ever truly cared how could he continue to behave in this fashion.

Did he ever love me? It's not my job to find out. It's not my burden to prove.
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HappyChappy
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« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2014, 03:48:29 AM »

Having read substantial amounts on NPD and BPD, the consensus I’ve found is that BPD cannot love others in the sense we would define love. Now I’ve read this often about NPD, but see many on this website state their was love from their mother. In my case there clearly wasn’t any love from my NPD bro and my BPD mom. My mom would often use the word, even talk about a thing called love, but I cannot recall a single action that irrefutably demonstrated love.

I read a thread where people agree their moms never showed empathy but did show love. Yet to me, you can’t have love for another without empathy for that other. Is this because of the spectrum that is BPD or is this just wishful thinking on our behalf ?

So I would be interested in knowing if anyone had found a reputable article that provided empirical proof that BPD love. I’ve found plenty that say NPD lack this. My sister’s view is that “all mothers love their kids.” period. Yet again, I have often read this is not the case.

Ironically I realise there was no love at a very early age (I’m the scape goat). I was convinced I was adopted (even hunted for my birth certificate which my BPD wouldn’t show me). Tried to take my life around age 10 and ran away from home age 12. You’d think by now I would have excepted it, but you always hold out hope. From the recommended reading I have, it seems to suggest that this hope, many not be helpful. It keeps you anchored to a BPD. It keeps you banging your head against a brick wall.
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Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go. Wilde.
lucyhoneychurch
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« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2014, 05:26:12 AM »

Hey Happy... long time no see - hope you are carrying on all right smiley

There is an American actor dearly beloved by many here in the States, Michael J Fox, who was dx'd with Parkinson's at a very young age, has allowed the public to share alot of his highs and lows... his wife Tracey just incomparably beautiful and brave and they have four kids I believe - simply a remarkable family... and he said this in a Rolling Stone mag interview I bought last year bec he was on the cover, he is sort of a touchstone of courage for me - integrity in the flesh - here it is:

"'My happiness grows in direct proportion to my acceptance, and in inverse proportion to my expectations."

Some personal moments recently for me - burned my late mother's death certificate on a pile of dried roses and lavender, just to send the final sorrow on its way of ... never having had a mother. Not in the "mother" sense of things.

Made choices that were in my favor for once, like spending money on these nice guys mowing my huge lawn in spite of my idea that I'm not worth it - I simply couldn't keep up with it anymore and the lovely almost golf-links velvet of the lawn works in my head.   cool

Have cleared out of a very toxic relationship that I fell into way too soon after divorce, way too knowing better about this man - thinking I could prove him wrong that he was unloveable etc...

Reading your post - what happens when you find irrefutable evidence that those dx'd or seemingly BPD'd "can love?" or cannot? and just how does anyone measure that worldwide? or in relation to our particular family member? it's empirically impossible, I'll safely bet.

If some divine being came down from wherever and told you yes or no about your own loved one, wouldn't you still be sifting through the flotsam and jetsam of having been reared by a troubled individual?

Expectations in light of Mr Fox's quote - you are hoping to read that somewhere out there people who demonstrate these traits CAN love or DO love.

Acceptance - there's no way to know... or NO they cannot.

One seems to leave you dangling in extremis... acceptance seems to just say, who could figure that out in cold hard scientifically certain terms? or... no they can't, not like we needed them to.  Not like we would've dreamt and wished for.

Somewhere along the way, personally, something switched over inside of me about my mother's words of love but actions of harm and near malice. Even before she died. I accepted that nowhere in her mental nor emotional makeup was she able to demonstrate motherly qualities. But to see inside her head and heart and mind and say she didn't love or couldn't love, all I could ever come up with was my subjective certainty that none of it *felt like love* to me. Of that I was certain and could then make choices accordingly.

I'm just trying to encourage you, via Mr Fox's thoughts, who lives out every day overriding a body that wants to fight him and discourage him, that with or without proof that those with this disorder can or cannot "love," you're still in the same bind. Your mother in particular, out of all the other mothers on the planet, wasn't able to provide you with nurturing and care, and instead dished out the very opposite. As did mine.

Your last sentence is the problem - none of it keeps you banging your head against a wall, really... you are banging your head against the wall because you are still dreaming you will get this answer. But what would it change?

I am in the same boat you're in, up a creek, no paddle, as the saying goes. But instead of fighting the current, let it just carry you downstream a bit until you bump into shore. If you see a waterfall ahead, jump and start swimming.   grin

Our shore is a place of acceptance. I never thought, not in a million years, that I would ever be able to look back at my past with the ambivalence I feel about it now. And that is with current upheavals with siblings' kids in contact for first time etc due to fallout of family stuff. So juggling how to interact yet not burden them with crap that has nothing to do with them. If I try to live with integrity, then baggage can't taint new connections.

Good luck on the possible resting and letting the load settle into the dust. That's where it belongs, not in your heart anymore.

Honestly, study that quote - I'm not kidding when I say it seems to have life breathing in and out of it because it's us ACON's in a nutshell.  You take good care. 
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Rifka
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« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2014, 11:01:17 AM »

Thank you all so much for this thread. It really helped clear up so much torment in my mind about understanding my exBPDbf. It was healing to hear the truth about how  a person with BPD processes love. It hurts to have it confirmed, but is always felt his love was not the same as my love. I feel ok knowing he gave the best he could possibly give. It was hell, with the I love you this month and then I'm not sure the next month then I love you the next. It was what it was. I am 7 days nc. No communication whatsoever and Sept 3 will be a month since we broke up for the last time. The end of recycling and my power back to take a stand and say no more!

I am so glad that I found this thread! It was tough to hear, but I needed the truth.

Thank you again!
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joshbjoshb
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« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2014, 01:53:52 PM »

And now, my turn to thank everyone who wrote on this thread.

Does my uBPD wife loves me?

To me, an answer like "she loves you the best way she knows" is the most true answer. It's instead of saying "no, she doesn't really loves you and only cares about herself".

In other words, you still say the same message, just you shift the blame from her to her situation.

Which is true, at least the way I see it.

Yet, it's very very difficult to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't really love you - based on what most people see love. It's like having to get used to eating with your hands when you learn about forks. It's like listening to kindergarten music after being exposed to adult music.

But that's life.
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borderdude
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« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2014, 04:57:04 PM »

Mine did a BIG effort to avoid abandonment , with acting, crying, was it out of love?, or just losing her supply , (she loves mirroring me), think she loves my personality , being a part of it.


Anyway , guess she did felt hurt by losing an object (me), but it is strange to say this , feel rude, are really like this ?
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joeramabeme
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« Reply #79 on: July 04, 2015, 07:57:15 AM »

All,

This is an awesome thread, thanks to everyone for their sharing and heartfelt stories of tribulation and healing. 

I know my 2bx BPDw loves me.  There are multiple ways in which the love is distorted and I always felt whip lashed by the heartless comments she would make and then a follow through of heartfelt actions that indicated how she really felt.  It was/is all very confusing and kept me off balance for a long time (still regaining or just establishing for the first time my footing).

I wanted to add something to this thread.  I am struck by how many topics are brought up about the BP that I feel are personally applicable.  The whole business of feeling empty and needing/wanting someone to complete me resonates.  I feel guilty in labeling her BP when I see the same characteristics in me.  I did not see her as an object but I did at times objectify her.

Additionally this quote hits me hard:

Quote from: oceanheart
People with BPD are intense by nature: one of the disorder’s basic structures is mood lability (definition:Apt or likely to change). But the force of our love – and our hate, though never indifference – comes from something altogether different: from the deep emptiness inside us, where no warmth seems to reach. It’s an absense of a sense of self, a sense of being a good person, and comes from a lack (or perceived lack) of getting our primary needs met when we were children, for whatever reason: abuse, neglect, trauma, difficult innate temperaments, invalidation, loss of a caretaker, harsh environment, whatever it may be.

YES!  That is what I felt, deep emptiness inside from not getting my needs met as a child.  I did not see my wife as a CURE, but I did see the relationship as a end in itself.  The part that everyone else had that I always saw through the looking glass and fantasized about what it was like to have this.

Anyway, i know this is not a thread for questions, but wanted to add this to the discussion.

Thank you all, on my way to healing, perhaps this is another item I will need to place on my 'to be healed' list.

Joe
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