PERSPECTIVES: How do we know if we love our BPD parents?

[blackandwhite]

How do we know if we love our BPD parents?

We often hear people say, "I love my mother/father, but... ."

In this workshop, based on a thread started by OZtoAZ that sparked a lot of thought in other members, we would like to explore the question  How do you REALLY know you LOVE your BPD parent(s)?  What does that look like? Feel like?

[stellaris]

Do I love my mother?  After all the abuse, the cripping damage she inflicted?

Well, I WANT to love her.  I WANT her to love me.  I want the wonderful, creative, loving mother she could be sometimes.  I want the wonderful birthdays, the handmade quilt and scarf, the rocking to sleep, the cool hand on my feverish forehead.  I want to rewind-erase the screaming rages, the neglectful indifference, the selfish manipulation.

I want her to call me, write me, and say "I'm so sorry, I was so messed up, my own parents were abusive and I didn't know how to be  a mother.  I tried for you, I know I failed.  You were so good and I made it so hard for you and I just wasn't strong enough."

And you know - that's there.  I know somewhere in there she's aware of that reality.  She's said as much to my sister - but she won't step up and say it to me.

So do I love her?  There's nothing more natural, more automatic, than a child's love for his or her mother - and a child's need for mother's love in return.  I love my son with quiet pride, I love my wife deeply and passionately.  I love my aunts, who were more a mother to me than my own ever was, my uncles, my close friends.  My mother - no, not anymore.  She has kicked and beaten that out of me over the years.  I think the potential to love her again is still there, if she could ever step up, but even that is dying slowly with time.  The slow fading of that spark is probably the saddest thing in my life, and I'm torn between once again trying to salvage something and my feeling that no, this time it is HER turn to actually act like a parent for a change.

Relationships are like bank accounts - they only hold what you put into them.  Those nine months of pregnancy put a lot in the bank for any mom, but if you keep taking out more than you put in, eventually they're empty.

[Deserve to be happy]

I think that real love is unconditional.  I unconditionally love my husband and sons.  There isn't anything they have to fear about losing my love.  My mother never loved me unconditionally.  She only showed me love if I was her happy little robot meeting her every need.  I loved my mom unconditionally even after her relentless beatings and verbal attacks.   I loved her so much that I thought her behavior was "normal" and did not even know I was suffering from the worst case of emotional abuse.  Eventually, when I was away from her long enough to recognize "normal" behavior, I started questioning my relationship with her.  The longer and farther I was away from her the more "clearer" my thinking got.  Until a couple years ago, Mother's Day I was looking for a card to express my love.  None of the cards represented my true feelings about her.  I love her in the sense that I respect her as a human being but I don't love my mother "unconditionally" anymore like I do my husband and kids.  I don't hate her and I still pray every night for her well being but I'm not willing to love this women unconditionally only to be abused.  I also understand and respect all those that have come to the conclusion that they don't love their mom.  Only you know what's best for you.

[Marley]

Hi, I am new to this board. I have gone full circle with my probably BPD mother, but have to say I do love her. I do not like her, nor do I wish to be with her, or speak to her, and I certainly do not want to go and live in her strange emotional reality with her, but if I ever found a way to help her deal with her condition that does not compromise my own happiness - it is an illness after all - then I would try.

Note that I have not been physically abused so that does make it a little diferent for me.

[Sasha026]

Yes, I love my mother. Unfortunately, she will never permit love. Never has, never will. I am only as good as my last sale.

I have gone so far over the edge to show her love. I have run to her, babied her, sat with her, ruined my marriage for her, given her everything, taken care of her... .and on and on. But, sadly, to no avail.

Nothing ever came back. But... .I had hope, so I kept on trying. Just recently, I gave up hope. While, it did give me some peace of mind to know that I finally realized my limits, I feel sort of sad. I regret that I made a terrible mistake all of my life by trying to achieve the unachievable. I've wasted years.

The problem is that it's is really not in my control. You cannot GIVE them love, they won't take it, don't understand it. Borderlines are emotional vampires, they will take and take, but never give. My mother would dangle the "carrot of love" just long enough to convince me that it could be possible, yanking it away as I eagerly grabbed for it, leaving me frustrated and angry.

They like anger. Comfortable with pain. I think, sometimes, it's the only emotions that they can understand. It's so sad. I had so much love to give, but, she just didn't want it.

[inshock]

I am late in reading this post. But it struck a cord with me.  I have never had a bad relationship with my mother. She was not abusive in the usual sense... .no screaming, no crazy antics, no hitting.  But she was so involved with her own troubles (agoraphobia, depression, divorce, dating, drinking) and so involved with my bpsister(whom I have posted about), that I was left to survive on my own.  In fact from the time I was in junior high school, I felt more mature, more stable, and more put together than my own mother. I feel like my mother's mother. ? Now that she is elderly and really does need her children's help, I find it difficult because I resent the responsiblity and expectations placed on me.  But more importantly, I resent how I was ignored.  My needs (beyond food and clothing) were never her priority.  To this day, since my bpsister has hurt our family with her craziness, my mother concentrates on my "poor" sister rather than the significant pain I have been through. 

So to answer the question, Do I love my mother ?, I don't think so in the sense of real mutual caring.  I feel obligated, I feel guilty, I feel an urge to try to make her "normal", I feel like I need to tolerate her, I feel the need to help her... .but I don't feel true connectedness for her.

Her neglect was abuse.  Sometimes I wonder if I have ever so slightly neglected my daughter in certain areas.  I remember when she was in middle school, I really felt she didn't need me.  I don't have a compass to know how much kids need their parents because I wasn't cared for.  It is so complicated... .but this post makes me realize how important it is to maintain healthy, happy, relationships with your children.  I would die if I knew my daughter was posting about not loving me. How awful.

And I really relate about the Mother's Day card thing.  Since I was a preteen, I never could find an appropriate mother's day card.  Hallmark doesn't make cards for the abusive and neglectful mother... .Now there is an idea.

[twingles]

Good thread,it really got me thinking. I have been NC with my mother for over 5weeks and I have to say this forum has made really think about really good questions our relationship. I would like to love my mother but she has pushed me away,trying to test my love for her.I decided that I'm harboring deep angry resentment towards her for trying to make me think that my dad was a bad guy(cheating on her and such) But it takes two doesn't it? She decided that she did not like men and  became a lesbian(not sure if this is real,I have never seen her with anyone). I always tried to protect her for all these years from having to spend life alone because what HE did to her. I realize that I have been duped because I only got her side and so that is what I believed, because she was my mom and would only tell me the truth.I realize that what ever occurred with the divorce I can say that I am sure she was the one testing his love by"pushing" him away like she had done to me.( I'm not saying he was right,he did cheat,he handled it poorly,should have left the marraige first of course)  She really was the one who probably,in reality, initially broke up the marraige not my dad.That being said I can answer the question "do I love my mom" I thought I did,now,not so sure. That's scary for me!

[justhere]

Thanks mwBPD for bringing up this thread.

I just posted on another thread that I love my uBPD/NPDm and uBPDs and that really got me thinking as something didn't feel right about what I posted.  :)o I really love them or do I just think I do or think that I'm supposed to?  

Why was the first thing I posted when I wanted to talk about how I wanted my mom and my sister out of my life forever was that I loved her, that I loved them?I wonder is it is a way of rationalization or compensation for my thoughts about how I really feel or maybe its the way I think of love.

As I grew up thinking love was synonymous with pain, I'm not sure what I think now.  When I think of my mom or my sister I just get upset and anxious and I don't want to see them or even talk to them...  I feel more a sense of duty and responsibility towards my mom because I think I feel sorry for her because she is so helpless, unhappy and old now but my sister I don't really feel much of anything but a little regret that it couldn't be different.  

I know I love my children because I feel the warmth and good inside and I look forward to seeing them and spending time with them. So I know how to love in the way that love should be so I'm not sure how I found my way to love my children the way I do and why I think differently about my mom and my sister.

I know I want to love my mom and for my mom to love me the way I need to be loved but so far that's not happening and I'm just getting little crumbs now and then to keep me bound to her but sometimes I almost wish she'd do something that would allow me to end it with her.  I think with my mom and my sister my love for them means more the absence of pain then anything else and the absence of pain is not love but only relief that the abuse has stopped for the time being.

[healinghome]

this is a great thread and really good timing for me. i'm going through the fog of mothers day here in the uk, which really sucks.  having never really experienced love so far, its hard for me to know if i love uBPDm or not. someone said on here that if we have to question it, chances are we don't love them. i think like most here, i got brainwashed into believing what they decided love was to control and abuse me and am now re-learning the truth.

the only emotion i could say was love was when i see my niece and nephew.  it was like my chest caved in, i felt this enormous wave of what i could only say was love that almost made me cry.  when ever i saw them i felt it, i been trying to learn how to express it in a healthy manner ever since. do i feel any flicker of that for uBPDm or NPDf? nope.  just as liondreamer said, i wish my biological parents happiness and a good life, but preferably a long way away from me.

[anker]

I love my mom. Crazy as she is and was. She had me at seventeen. A kid really.

It messed up her life... .but she never said that to me. She made tons of mistakes with me. She didn't get any help til I was in my twenties. She is a different person now. And I love her.

The damage she did to me sucks. I am trying to find ways to address it... .I've talked to her about some things and she has said "I know, my god, what was I thinking. I'm so sorry"

She still has stuff about her I can't stand but I do live her.

[healinghome]

i'm also in a really weird place right now.  i woke up this morning to an email from my ensis about her coming over from abroad for 7 weeks because uBPDm is about to go into hospital for reconstructive breast surgery. i'm back to nc, stronger than ever with the inner knowing now, that i cannot help her and that she truly feels nothing for me, only her own panic and needs. i know that contact with her is abusive to me and not looking after me.

i think because of the safety and inner strength i have created and found, i have been having a lot of nightmares lately too, that are almost like memories of feelings i had in my childhood around her.  they aren't pretty, just the way she looks at me, like an object, she expresses no feelings toward me but resentment and bitterness.  how me and my sisters tried to 'rescue' her so many times, only for it all to be a game of manipulation and attention for her.  its chilling but also really sad.  i think i did love her and probably a part of me always will, but that love was used against me and is unhealthy for me to act on.  so i'm learning how to deal with that love.  its hard to have an emotion and not express it.  because when i feel love or compassion for others, i tell them or act in a way that i believe expresses it.  to feel love for someone but know it only involves abuse if i try to express it, is hard to live with.  but if the alternative is abuse, i'll learn.

[frtbt2]

I ask myself if I love my mother all of the time. Love is something you just know though, if I'm asking then I probably don't. She'll say it to me and it's almost painful to try to say it back, so I don't. I haven't for a while. I don't love my mother. I used to, I tried so hard; she can't accept that though.

[Taylor83]

I have been asking myself this a lot lately as well.  Do I love my mother?  When I talk to my therapist I am not comfortable saying I do because I don't believe I do.  For a long time I did hate my mother and resent her for how I was treated. 

But then I started moving away from hate to indifference.  It made me wonder if indifference is more the opposite of love than hate?  Both love and hate require a strong emotional attachment with the other individual which is either positive or negative.  Indifference, however, does not require that emotional attachment.  You have gotten to the point where you don't care which is more the opposite of love.

Now, I seem to be moving away from this indifference to compassion and more understanding.  I still have some resentment, and of course my emotions and feelings can change from day to day.  However, I do believe there is another component to the question of whether we love them or not besides the opposite being to hate.  Sometimes we have just moved to indifference.

I hope that makes sense to some. 

[CrazyNoMore]

Good question.

After going NC all those years ago, my mantra was, "I wish her no ill."  I wasn't wishing her dead, or wishing someone would treat her as badly as she treated me, or some other misfortune to befall her.  All I really wanted was for her to leave me alone for once. 

I can honestly say that I didn't much like her.  She was not a likeable person. I can never quite bring myself to say I hate her.  But I can honestly say that I wanted what was best for her.  Now, we had VERY different ideas of what was "best for her."  For her, it was simply Do What I Want, Without Question, Immediately.  For me, I always wished  she would find some way of developing her own happiness and not needing to suck it out of me. 

So I dunno.  Is that love?  Is it just me managing my own emotions toward her?  Is it detachment on my part?  Is it a lack of any emotion at all?  I don't know. 

[ennie]

Interesting topic.  Right now, my SD7 and SD11 definitely do love their BPD mom.  It is my experience that the number one reason for kids not loving step-parents is that the child does not feel loved.  I wonder if that is also true with moms and dads--but with a time delay.  Seems like all kids or most kids love their parents while they feel dependent.  Other kids are parentified and love their parents as a parent loves a child.  But when the child become more independent, a lot of children of BPD parents do not feel love.  My experience with how BPD mom relates to her kids is as need-gratifying objects.  When the kids are young, this is more satisfying, as she hugs them, kisses them, sleeps with them, giving them a sense of being loved and close.  But as they get older, they have more needs for autonomy and being treated like people.  And then, it becomes more obvious that mom is not there for them, but for herself.  When there is a conflict between the kids' needs and mom's needs, mom's needs always win.  It then becomes clear that there are limits on mom's ability to love. 

I think it is hard  to love people who do not love us, particularly if they are close or in a role that we are led to believe are supposed to love us... .like a mom.  I think kids need to love mom to feel safe, if she is a primary caretaker.  But it is hard for our heart to stay open to people who do not love us or notice us as separate people. 

I am very curious about how the kids will experience their mom as they grow up.  What DH and I work with them on is that it is possible to love someone without agreeing with them.  That you can be your own person, and say no, have boundaries, and still love someone.  I would like to help the kids to be able not to hate their mom.  I personally think hate is a word for strong anger coupled with powerlessness.  I hope that my SDs can know that they are powerful, at least over themselves.  My best efforts in that direction, I think, are to let them know that they are powerful with me, even when I am upset, and to allow them to see how they influence me.  Having a BPD mom feels powerless, I think, for them.  No matter how "good" they are, mom is hard to influence.  That is painful to witness.  I can see how this level of powerlessness feels like hatred--I have moments of that with BPD mom, and I barely see her.  I suppose I can see being powerless to influence someone as being related to not being loved by that person.  Loving someone means being able to be profoundly influenced by them.  Being loved is inherently powerful. 

[lostboys]

I was with my mother not long ago, visiting with her after she has just lost her mother (my grandmother). I saw her in the laundry room one day and went to say hi. She looked up and smiled at me and asked me how things were. I saw a tiny glimpse of my mother with nothing else going on--not alternative agendas, no anger, not saying anything bad about anyone else to me, no plotting or scheming or manipulating. Just a tiny glimpse of how things could be. It was such a good feeling to see that, and tragic at the same time, tragic because it does not last, not for more than a glimpse of what might be and how different my life could have been. Then the storm clouds roll back in, and it is back to her old self. The one that I can never share any information with, or ever let see how I really feel about anything, because anything you say can and will be used against you in the war. The war against her own children. The war that her children (who are now adults) never chose to engage in, but don't have a choice. The war with no rules, no Geneva Convention. No retreat and no surrender. A war that goes on with no aim that is apparent.

Do I love my mother? I feel sorry for her, I pity her, I hate her a lot of the time, I wish she would stop the warfare. But I do not love her. I even hate her for making me feel guilty about not loving her. Why should I feel guilty when she has done things to me I would not do to my worst enemy? It is all just part of the fallout of living with a BPD mother. You can't even leave them without feeling guilty about it. But I believe that there is no point in us all going down with the ship, not when it won't make a difference to the outcome anyway. I think (at least at an intellectual level) that the BPD's children owe it to themselves to try and salvage the most that they can out of whatever time they have left in this world--any other outcome is simply unacceptable.

[ennie]

I was with my mother not long ago, visiting with her after she has just lost her mother (my grandmother). I saw her in the laundry room one day and went to say hi. She looked up and smiled at me and asked me how things were. I saw a tiny glimpse of my mother with nothing else going on--not alternative agendas, no anger, not saying anything bad about anyone else to me, no plotting or scheming or manipulating. Just a tiny glimpse of how things could be. It was such a good feeling to see that, and tragic at the same time, tragic because it does not last, not for more than a glimpse of what might be and how different my life could have been. Then the storm clouds roll back in, and it is back to her old self. The one that I can never share any information with, or ever let see how I really feel about anything, because anything you say can and will be used against you in the war. The war against her own children. The war that her children (who are now adults) never chose to engage in, but don't have a choice. The war with no rules, no Geneva Convention. No retreat and no surrender. A war that goes on with no aim that is apparent.

Do I love my mother? I feel sorry for her, I pity her, I hate her a lot of the time, I wish she would stop the warfare. But I do not love her. I even hate her for making me feel guilty about not loving her. Why should I feel guilty when she has done things to me I would not do to my worst enemy? It is all just part of the fallout of living with a BPD mother. You can't even leave them without feeling guilty about it. But I believe that there is no point in us all going down with the ship, not when it won't make a difference to the outcome anyway. I think (at least at an intellectual level) that the BPD's children owe it to themselves to try and salvage the most that they can out of whatever time they have left in this world--any other outcome is simply unacceptable.

This is profoundly touching to me.  We all mean so many different things when we use the word love.  Ultimately, love is something that we have no control over; we can be at peace in ourselves, set good boundaries, take care of ourselves, and all these things prepare the soil for love, but then it shows up or does not. I remember my therapist saying something (he worked with my "normal" mom for 30 years as well as with me since my teen years) in response to me when I said I wanting to work on loving my mom more.  He said, "I think that it is your mom who needs to work on being more lovable.  If my son was having a hard time liking me, I would have a conversation about what I could do to be more likable to him.  You are loving enough."  What a great freedom! No need to be more loving. 

At the same time, I want to say that from where I sit, with what love means to me, you are showing a profound capacity for love, including love for your mom.  Love is not just the sweet and intense part.  To me, love is also the ability to hold in your heart the ability to see someone for what they could be, or what their soul is, not like they should grow or change into that, not that you have any role in getting them there, but just an ability to see their beauty in the midst of their awfulness.  When someone hurts you a lot, one's ability to keep open to that person dries up.  So the softness is not there.

I struggle to "love" the BPDmom of my step-kids, not to be "nice", and not to whitewash her terribly destructive ways, and not to minimize the intense anger I sometimes feel for how she acts toward her children and towards me and my husband, but because love allows some of that pain she causes just to end with her, not to ripple out forever into the world.  It makes me not have to get it on me.  But what I mean by love, what I am striving for, you have, though you have been hurt so much more by a BPD person that I have.  Just that ability to see through the fog for one moment to this woman, whose real self is totally disabled and destroyed by this way she has developed to deal with her life. 

Love seems to me at times far more plain that we expect.  I remember a similar moment with my dad, who is also "normal," but gets really angry easily and yells.  He is a loving guy and self-aware enough to apologize and see the impacts of his anger, even minutes later.  But his anger made it hard for me to really feel love for him in my teens and early 20s.  I remember when I was around  30 I looked at him and felt a wash of affection, for the first time since I was a child.  I remember just running my hand through his hair, just ruffling his hair.  I was so grateful to not be angry at him in that moment, to not be hurt.  Just to love him. 

There is no obligation to love your mom.  She did not earn your love, and many parents who work hard to earn the love of their children, who deserve love, fail to have that love returned.  You do not owe your mom anything.  At the same time, the love that you do give just in writing what you wrote is all the more profound, as it is given freely with no obligation. 

[hokus719]

I honestly dont kno. I tell her I love her and crave for her to say it, but not just say it, to hear her say it in a way that sounds like she means it. If that makes sense? like ppl say the same thing, same exact words, but HOW they say it makes a difference. I think i tell her I love her so I can hear her say it back and one day i will feel the love inside and not just hear it.

I want to love her. It kills me on the inside to think I might not love her. I kno she thinks she loves me and has shown it, but it doesnt overcast the hurt i have inside from her. its like the pain and love battle each other and the pain is winning, but the love isnt completely gone and out of the fight. and by me saying I love u to her so she says it back is me helping the love stay alive in the fight. It gives love a chance to still win one day.

The part that makes this question hard for me is that my BPDm often asks if i love her, and am i sure?, and like just tonight, she said are u sure? and i was like yeaa and rolled my eyes basically outta reflex. Wat am i gonna do? tell her straight to her face "No mom I dont love u." I couldnt hurt her like that. She never intentionally, or atleast never intentionally while in rational thought, meant to hurt me. Im also scared of what her reaction would be. That is the worst fear of a BPD, rejection. I would feel terrible becuz she believes she loves me. I couldnt crush her like that. I digress tho. Her asking me and saying thank u with my reply of yes, makes me feel bad for even questioning if i love her. If she questions my love for her, then possibly i rly dont and show it subconsciously. =/

I still live at home, and it seems on here many people it takes until they are on their own and often NC for a while before they truely kno they dont. I suppose only time and experience can tell.

[annagn]

I know I love my father because, despite everything, he made sure I knew he loved me.

I know I am a special case with that. But, even after the rages, and through the depression, there were moments where I really knew my dad was making an effort to show me he loves me. And I love him for that.

[ennie]

I know I love my father because, despite everything, he made sure I knew he loved me.

I know I am a special case with that. But, even after the rages, and through the depression, there were moments where I really knew my dad was making an effort to show me he loves me. And I love him for that.

I am really grateful to read this, because I am really hoping my two stepdaughters feel this way.  Their BPD mom is really inconsistent, self-absorbed, totally unaware of her impact on others, runs hot and cold with the kids... .but when she loves them, she really loves them and lets them know it. I am frustrated and angry with their mom for all of the baloney she constantly pulls, but I still really get how important it is to feel loved by your parents, so I do my best to really support both girls in their relationship with their mom.  To model that it is okay to feal hurt, angry, afraid, and still love someone.  When SD8 was little, she would tell me she wishes that I was her mom, and instead of rejoicing in her love, I would explain that while I love her so much, with all my heart, I am not her mama, and am wondering why she would want me to be.  She also used to project her feelings on me--after seeing her mom lose it at her sister's birthday party, she told me that if I was afraid when her mom was around, I could hide in the bathroom.  For a little while, when I put her to bed she would want to talk about this, and I would let her know that it is okay to love your mom and also be afraid, and it is okay to take care of yourself when you are scared, by hiding in the bathroom or getting away from people when they are fighting.  That this does no mean she does not love her mommy, but that it is always okay to feel what you feel.  She would tell me about how sometimes her mom is not nice and also lies.  SD 12, when she was younger, would ask why her mom is so angry, and we would talk about topics like emotional regulation, how we are all different, and also I model for her and give her permission to express how it feels when I am angry or she is angry, as there is no space to do that with her mom. 

In other words, with both girls, I have tried to really give them space to be who they are and let them know it is okay to feel what you feel, even if it is a terribly confusing combination of things.  So thanks for loving your dad, for seeing all sides of him, and not letting one overwhelm the other. 

[ennie]

Hi,

All I can say is that I agree with B&W.  I do not love my mother.  I don't even really like her.  When someone is repeatedly cruel it is hard to love them.  I was in my 30's when I was finally able to admit that to myself.  The guilt was not an easy thing to overcome, but with the support of my T I was able to let it go.

My mom did physically take care of me and my sister as far as making sure we had food and clean clothes, etc.  Emotionally she just was awful.  I always felt like no matter how I much I tried to please her it was never good enough.  Her altered sense of reality was scary to me.  She has been diagnosed as bipolar, paranoid, etc.(she never was on medication).  I think she is definately uBPD.  I thought that this was normal until I visited my friends homes and realized as I got older that it was not.

 

So, I have accepted that it is okay not to love her, I went through a period of grieving the loss of a mom & daughter relationship, cried alot of tears at my T sessions. 

She is 84 now and in a nursing home on 3 different meds.  I do take care of her finances, etc.  I respect that she is my mom, that she did the best she could, I suppose.  I don't understand why she was so mean to me and not to my sister, but maybe it is because my sister has a pd also.  I have my anxiety and sometimes get depressed, but thank God I am as healthy as I am.

Anyway, I don't know if any of this is helpful, but it certainly is good to know that others feel the same.

 

lostchild

I just also want to note that I would be entirely supportive of my stepdaughters if they did not love their mom or chose to have no contact with her when they are grown.  I have three close friends who had BPD/NPD moms, and they each have developed different relationships with their moms.  One has no contact, hates her mom, wants nothing to do with her, and is fine.  One had nothing to do with her mom for 20 years, now loves her and sees her once or twice a year, with boundaries.  The third has had the roughest go of it, having attempted suicide around issues related to her relationship to her mom, then went N/C with mom for 7 years, then developed really clear boundaries and a healthy relationship with little love, then relaxed more and loved more, let down her boundaries and has had a hard time with her mom this last year and so has more boundaries now.  There are so many ways of dealing with the pain and challenge of a parent who has BPD and is not accessible in some critical way, not to mention sometimes abusive.  There is a way I just wish my SDs would decide they want nothing to do with mom, and just live with us because they are really happy at their dad's and strangely do not miss their mom much when she is gone for long periods, and because being with their mom often is terribly hard on them.  But that is not my choice, and my husband has fought for custody and only got 50/50.  So that is what is, and my main commitment is to support the girls in being where they are at in their relationship with their mom, and supporting them in being okay with their uncomfortable feelings, and okay with taking care of themselves even when mom is not happy about it.  It is just such a tricky line they have to walk, as they have to endure stuff that I wish they did not.  I just hope they come out of it as whole as you sound, and as some of my friends are, and as many people on this board seem to be!

[justnothing]

Back when my mother was alive there was a long stretch of time when I thought I didn't love her. This was a defence mechanism because loving her was too costly in many ways... .

After being told that she was brain dead, I was able to reunite with the love I felt for her and I realized that it was there all along only I had been afraid of it.

It so happens that earlier today I remembered all the comedies she and I used to enjoy watching together and all the specific lines from those movies that we'd repeat and laugh at a million times over later on, usually over the course of several years.

She never read stories to me at bed time when I was little but she did get me a whole bunch of fairy tale books when she wanted to teach me how to read. Most of the time she'd end up making a parody of the fairy tale we'd just read, making up new lines for the characters or just plain laughing at the way it had been originally written.

She wanted very much for me to know that she loved me and told me so many times. She herself didn't believe (or had a very hard time believing) that I loved her. For my part I doubted both her love for me and my love for her. Despite this we'd tell each other "I love you" several times a day. It was good to find out in the end that we both meant it.

If there is an afterlife, I hope she knows that we both meant it too.

[Cordelia]

For me there's a huge difference in how I feel toward my mom and my dad when it comes to love.  With my dad, I just KNEW he loved me.  I didn't have to think about it.  It was clear that he enjoyed being with me, thought the things I said were interesting and funny, just liked me as a person.  I got the opposite feeling from my mom, that everything I did and said annoyed her, disgusted her.  So for a long time I thought I loved my dad and not my mom (and they felt the same way about me).

I'm starting to realize that this was a child's perspective though.  My non-dad was way more affectionate and fun, but he made irresponsible decisions that placed me and our family in real danger.  My uBPD mom was angry, rejecting, accusatory, and deep in depression, but she made a real effort to provide consistency and safety for me.  And she had fun with us sometimes, almost despite herself.  Now I see love in her efforts to keep our family functional on a physical level, even while we were falling apart emotionally.  It wasn't love I could appreciate as a child, and I still don't feel it in my gut, but I do think that trying to keep someone safe and well-fed is one form of love. 

As far as how I feel about her, I loved her desperately for much of my life, a love that threatened to extinguish my own sense of self and healthy development.  I needed her approval so badly I thought I could never move on without it.  I was terribly dependent in a way that was so unhealthy for me, and she was unable to help me move past this childhood stage.  Thankfully, with good therapy and a richer emotional landscape in my personal life, I've been able to let go of such intense emotional dependance on both my parents and see that while they are very important figures in my life, their limitations and tragedies don't have to become my own.  I can care for them without needing anything from them, especially for them to change their feelings or behavior.  This frees me to detach from their choices that I disagree with and allows me to make the choices that are best for me, even if they don't appreciate or understand my reasoning.  It doesn't feel like as intense of a love as I felt when I was more enmeshed but it's way healthier for me and makes my life calmer and happier. 

[GeekyGirl]

I do love my parents, despite our differences and difficulties, because of who they are. I think deep down they are good but deeply wounded and scared people. My mother models the behavior she saw in her own mother because she doesn't know how to behave differently. My father is afraid of losing my mother's affection. I do believe deep down that they had good intentions, but can't carry them out or behave the way healthy parents do. I love them because they're my parents, but I don't like their behavior.

[Speedracer]

Oh gosh, I can't come right out & say that I do not love my BPD mother. I got far away from her. God has humbled me with a BPD daughter. I pity my mother now that I am educating myself about her life of internal misery & pain. She did terrible unforgiveable things. I forgive her & I keep boundaries & distance.

[ennie]

I do not have a BPD mom, but this issue of love for our mothers and children is interesting.  I love my mom, but it is a qualified love.  Our relationship is not easy, and while she is not mentally ill, she is not very able to connect and be intimate.  I have come to see that she loves me very much, but that she is not very interested in being close with me or hearing my boundaries or respecting my needs, so I am less emotionally close with her than with my dad. 

I think this represents some things that are typical of a parent/child relationship, and an adult parent/adult child relationship.  Though I am not their biomom, I love my stepdaughters in an unconditional delighted way.  They are wonderful.  I do not expect them to love me back.  SD8 (who is more daughter-like to me) loves me with all her heart, but is willing to act whatever way she needs to with me--she is well behaved, but she says she hates me once in a great while (esp. when younger), is emotionally expressive, but sort of takes me for granted.  She knows i love her no matter what.  I knew that with my mom, too. 

So moms tend to love painfully, but not always see children's boundaries.  After all, they were part of her body at one point.  Children tend to love mom, to reject the boundarilessness at some point.  Then as adults if mom still sees you as part of her, adult kids tend to resent or distance from parents.  Parents tend to still love closely, but want their kids out of their hair, while wanting more friendship and adult closeness, that many adult kids are not capable of forming easily with parents. 

So kids see mom's boundaries but not her feelings, moms see kids feelings but not boundaries. 

With a mentally ill mom, it seems like the child ends up with that parental role, and maybe the child role as well.  The intense love one has for someone for whom you are responsible.  And that frustration of not being understood or heard by the child, who is only focused on herself.  But it is so confusing to feel these things as a child.  Sadly, I do not offer my mom undconditional love, because she exorcised authority over me, and I rejected that and so in some sense my feeling of closeness is conditional on her accepting my independence.  Not on purpose or principal, that is just when the love shows up.  But she does have unconditional love for me, even when she feels totally hurt by me, she still loves me.  That is how I feel with my step-daughters.  I love them as is, through anger and withdrawal.  I do not need it to be reciprocated, as they are kids.  If they hated me for real, I would withdraw.  But it is clear that is not in the cards.

It is a little heartbreaking to think of kids loving their mom so much, like a mother should love a child, when even the most loving BPD mom (or most of the most, anyway) cannot quite and fully do this with a feeling of ease.  It seems so painful for a child to have to accomplish this kind of love that should not be asked until growing up happens.  But it is also a rich kind of love if you have it, not that I would wish it on anyone, but I sure love that I can love the kids this way. 

[Santa Clara]

What a great thread. 

I love 'honour thy parents if they honour you'.  Of course, why didn't I think of that before?  That takes away a lot of guilt.

I'm not sure if I love my mother or not.  I love parts of her I think, or parts of her I used to know when she was being a loving mother when I was a child.  Although it must be over 20 years since she has displayed any loving mother qualities.

I often feel guilty about not being the 'loving daughter' and I know that is what she wants me to feel and think about myself.  But of course the reality is she hasn't shown any love, respect or support of my for many years.  She has said she loves my children, but she has made no effort to meet them over the past 4 years, so that seems pretty hollow too.  I think she probably does love us deep down, buried somewhere there, under all the messed up hurt and anger and bitterness (not to mention braindamage from the drinking).  But that place does not seem accessable to her.

Anyway, I like this thread.  Very helpful.

Thanks

[Exy725]

I have just read each and every one of your posts and at the end of reading them all I felt freed... . freed from any obligation to love my mother.

I want to thankyou all for articulating what I could not say because of the trauma i have experienced with my mother.

I have tried so hard to hang onto the fanntasy that I could have a mother daughter relationship ... . a relationship even thought she has BPD, I thought it was possible by setting boundaries, being mindful, learning new communication skills, completing the workshops on this sites... . I was hanging on desperately wanting my mum to be my mum... .   she let me down every single attempt I made to fix the relationship.

I have let go... . she is independant of me, like the rest of humanity. We build bonds on the foundations based on our connection with who and how the individual is represented in our lives. A mother has a certain foundation that needs to be build with her child, a friend has a certain foundation that needs to be built before a friendshipcan be created... . a neighbour needs to build a certain foundation before they can be a neighbour... . my mother could not and can not build the foundation for us to have, trust, honest, understanding, support which is the foundation required to be a mother. Sick or not, there is no escaping the requirement for the foundation to be built so a mother, daughter relationship can be created and as much as I try I can achieve the relationship I want with my mother on my own.

I need to remove my self, wholey from the tocic relationship and if she choses to work towards a relationship with me, only then can the possibility of arelationship of mother and daughter have a chance of being created.

I have stopped trying as of now.


         

   

[nevermore]

I do not love my BP mother. This is a huge improvement because for a very long time I hated her. I worked through so much hurt and I made my boundaries tall and strong. Even after moving back to the same town I have been able to keep my boundaries secure and have a "casual" connection with her.  This has taken eleven years since the suicide of my sibling.  She was instrumental in that event and I directed so much energy into hating her that I had nothing left to rebuile my life. We don't have to "love" them but we do have to care enough about ourselves not to be eaten alive. If I had continue to feed the fire of hating her I don't think I would have found the peace I now enjoy. When she passes away (she is very elderly) I know I will grieve for what I never had but I won't grieve the woman who I do have.