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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: This just doesn't makes any sense - 3  (Read 3633 times)
FallenOne
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« on: January 22, 2017, 10:28:58 AM »

There were a few times that I left mine, which were usually following a blowup from an argument where I just left. The few times that mine left me though, I was always blindsided by it and never saw it coming.

But she had a pattern of certain things that she said when she left...

"I love you, you're intoxicating, but you're not good for my mental health"

"I need to work on my mental health" "We can't be together, I need to work on myself"

"My main concern right now is my mental health"

"I can't be with you right now, maybe someday"

What do you all see here? Did she just feel like she was too overwhelmed to handle both her own problems and the relationship at the same time? Is that possibly what this meant?

Why the "maybe" and leaving the door open?

Did any of your ex's say things like this when they left?


Prior:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304431.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305602.0
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 10:39:47 AM »

Seems like lots of pwBPD, even if they cannot handle the intimacy of a relationship, they are constantly seeking parental love or unconditional love from all persons or are hating the person, feeling them to be "unsafe" with their emotions.

Often when there is a split up and one is mad at the pwBPD, the pwBPD lure the other back, so that things are not left on the other persons terms, but left on the pwBPD terms.

Meaning... .
They rather not do anything to provoke being rejected or abandoned
They rather leave than be left even if they have to create a recycle to get opportunity to be the dumper rather than the dumpee.
Even after a break up, they often still want to be loved and desired, and may state things in an ambiguous way so that the other person may still be allowed to desire after them now, or at some point. 

I think the book title that states this well is: I hate you, Don't leave me.

That kinda captures it all.
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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
FallenOne
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 11:56:42 AM »

reading between the lines, it also sounds like you would take her reaching out as an indication she sees you in a positive light?

It would just be nice to know that she remembers me in a good way and doesn't see me as just all bad.

But mostly, I am wondering if she will ever change her mind and revoke the order before it expires.
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 02:21:48 PM »

Oh yes, ex told me that a lot towards the end.

He was in a program for SA and he would tell me, "I can't work on our relationship right now. I have to focus on my issues." It would infuriate me because we had been married for 15 or 16 years at that point. We have four friggin' kids together! You don't get to take time off for mental health. Being a parent is a 24/7 job. Alas, he is off rediscovering himself and "healing".

It would baffle me that he would use his program and recovery as an excuse to be rude and disrespectful to me. I remember thinking, ":)ude, I am NOT asking you for a major effort here. I am just wanting you to be a little bit nicer and show me a little bit of consideration. When I challenge you on something, don't call me a b***h." That seemed like too much to ask because it detracted from his "healing". His healing and his mental health became an excuse for everything. I think he was just too overwhelmed with life because he doesn't have very good coping skills. He is easily overwhelmed.

Most people told me that I wasn't asking enough of him. Yet, he acted like I was asking for the moon. It boils down to the fact that he WAS overwhelmed. It didn't matter that I wasn't asking for much.

It was like he would use his "healing" or whatever it was he was doing as an excuse. It would make me so mad. I wanted to scream at him, "What about MY healing? What about the pain that I have endured because of the stuff you have said and done to me?"

He would spout off stuff like, "Everyone in the program says that you have to give it a year before you can make any kind of decision about the relationship." I allowed myself to be put off like that for a couple of years. I am finally the one that said, "No more." I feel like he kept things in that ambiguous state so that he didn't have to work at it. By keeping things in limbo, he was able to avoid grieving the loss of the relationship. And, he could keep some kind of hope that I would still be there.

I don't think I made any kind of real progress until I decided that I was done. He didn't leave me. I kicked him out. If I hadn't kicked him out, he would still be here and he and I would still be doing a dysfunctional dance with him waiting for him to s**t or get off the pot.

I feel like he left the door open in case he couldn't find anything better. That sucked and it hurt. I felt like I would do if he didn't find anything better. Now, I have closed the door. I am done.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2017, 02:46:30 PM »


His healing and his mental health became an excuse for everything. I think he was just too overwhelmed with life because he doesn't have very good coping skills. He is easily overwhelmed.

Same here... Exact same things. She would use her mental health condition to avoid looking for jobs, avoid going to school, avoid going out with me, avoid trying to get back custody of her son... Everything... Everything in life that she wanted to avoid or get out of doing, her mental health was always the reason... Yet she would talk about how these were huge goals for her, yet she would never do much to attain them.

She was also overwhelmed with everything... Normal day to day tasks that we all do overwhelmed her. She was very impatient with things and got frustrated very easily and would sometimes give up on things.

If she did leave because she felt too overwhelmed with both the relationship and her own problems, then that was a stupid choice on her part, because I didn't expect her to give me any special treatment and I would have supported her and stood by her, and I would have put my own needs aside (yet again) for her during this time... So I don't know why she would have felt she needed to either work on herself OR the relationship, but not both... .So confusing
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 03:24:15 PM »

HI Matt, the turbulence started after we moved in together. It bumped up quiet a bit after we married than right crazy out of control after she got pregnant and crazy after our son was born. Xw put crazy unrealistic demands on me and when I couldn't meet those demands Xw pulled the pin.
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 05:10:32 PM »

Mine was very caring and the first to offer support if someone was sick or something bad happened. I got laid off while I was dating mine and she was super supportive and a source for optimism. I got a new job soon after and had to work in the UK for a week. She cheated on me with her ex while telling me how much she missed me etc... .

I'm not sure if being supportive was just another item in their manipulation toolbox or that in that particular moment they are really nice people. Mine would turn into another person depending on who was in front of her. Was like if I left her vision, I might as well have never existed. Sometimes I think she wasn't lying when she was telling me certain things, but had some kind of mental block on them.

For instance - I wanted her to prove that she had not cheated on me... .So, I asked her to do this: Text your ex-bf this question: ":)o you remember the last time we kissed " ... .she showed no hesitation or worry and happily did it. About a min later, his texts comes back " Of course, it was just a couple weeks ago when you came over." .She seemed sincerely shocked.
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 05:30:49 PM »

Hi Matt,
   Question: did your ex file the order after you started posting on these boards?

I ask this because I see a lot of me in you, especially in the early stages of a breakup. I completely understand how hard this is and what you must be feeling.

You need to stop wondering if she will come back. I know it's hard. Mine hasn't said a word in two years and made me look insane to close associates, friends and family.

Partially I was. I was obsessed in clearing my name which only made me look more guilty.

Would you honestly take her back after a restraining order?

Think about it. Why would you even want to have contact?

After my final break I realized this person caused so much collateral damage in my life if I ever took her bank I'd lose ALL the people who stood by me, my credibility and possibly my life.

She isnt worth it.

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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 05:50:51 PM »

NC is an interesting ball of ideas.
When a pwBPD does it is usually a form of abuse/punishment or it could be that they can't deal with the pain of you. Or something in between.
Usually when Non's go NC it is so they can disconnect and reconnect with themselves.
This is all very simplistic.

I think for both parties the breakup is especially grievous. It may appear different but the pain is equally real.
I believe that both parties start to come to their senses around the 6 month mark.
And usually by 9 to 12 months one might try to undo the damage. Whether this is your or them; undoing the restraining order.
There is a good amount of healing then, but the key is not to mistake the healing (from both sides) and a reinitiating of the relationship. 

In the early bit, I can't stress enough; connect to friends and family. Go out and breathe the air.
It is okay to dwell. But think of it as a long road you both traveled and you hit the dead end. It is okay to think about the road and the journey.
Now it is time to start thinking about a new destination. Friends and family can help.

You post a lot of good questions. Good luck to you.
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 06:32:53 PM »

Mine was very caring and the first to offer support if someone was sick or something bad happened. I got laid off while I was dating mine and she was super supportive and a source for optimism. I got a new job soon after and had to work in the UK for a week. She cheated on me with her ex while telling me how much she missed me etc... .

A lot of those suffering from BPD have abandonment issues. She probably did miss you intensely - BPDs can find being on their own terrifying - so she tried to soothe her feelings of abandonment by hooking up with an ex.

Excerpt
I'm not sure if being supportive was just another item in their manipulation toolbox or that in that particular moment they are really nice people. Mine would turn into another person depending on who was in front of her. Was like if I left her vision, I might as well have never existed. Sometimes I think she wasn't lying when she was telling me certain things, but had some kind of mental block on them.

Unstable sense of self or (uncertainty about who you are) is another BPD trait. This lack of a stable self means they often mould themselves to suit the people around them. Object constancy - an inability to maintain an internal image of someone when they're no present - is another trait. My ex used to joke her out of sight out of mind feelings.

Someone suffering from borderline doesn't chose these behaviours and they can actually cause them a lot of pain but they can be very confusing and difficult for their partners.

Excerpt
For instance - I wanted her to prove that she had not cheated on me... .So, I asked her to do this: Text your ex-bf this question: ":)o you remember the last time we kissed " ... .she showed no hesitation or worry and happily did it. About a min later, his texts comes back " Of course, it was just a couple weeks ago when you came over." .She seemed sincerely shocked.

I know this isn't funny but it's so surreal it made me laugh. I can imagine it must have been very difficult for you

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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 07:39:38 PM »

Wow... .mine was not there for me either, although I think that was most acute when I was doing something she herself didn't like about herself. I remember once I was so down I was almost suicidal. Her response was to tell me off for being such a killjoy.

On another occasion, she spent two days with anxiety (me doing all I could to comfort her) but then got very upset and ultimately broke up with me because I was down for an hour following some bad news.

She herself was so depressed she was on anti-depressants, yet couldn't stand to see it in me.

I think it was because she hated seeing herself.

Tthe turbulence started as soon as we started messaging each other. She would get offended very easily. Then she wouldn't get serious, yet would be upset at any sign I wasn't there for her. After 4-5 months we had our first breakup. I had to beg her to come back, she spent 2 hours "testing" me before holding my hand and telling me she missed me.

That cycle then repeated itself for the rest of our two years together.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 09:38:43 PM »

Hi Matt,
   Question: did your ex file the order after you started posting on these boards?

I was posting here for advice before all of this happened. But I wasn't posting often until now.

She isnt worth it.

It's so depressing for me because we made so much progress and came so far, invested four years, and it ended over something so stupid that could have been resolved so easily... That's what I'm struggling with.

I also feel like I will never find someone else and that the damage is too great to find anyone else.
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2017, 10:39:51 PM »

Seems like lots of pwBPD, even if they cannot handle the intimacy of a relationship, they are constantly seeking parental love or unconditional love from all persons or are hating the person, feeling them to be "unsafe" with their emotions.

Often when there is a split up and one is mad at the pwBPD, the pwBPD lure the other back, so that things are not left on the other persons terms, but left on the pwBPD terms.

Meaning... .
They rather not do anything to provoke being rejected or abandoned
They rather leave than be left even if they have to create a recycle to get opportunity to be the dumper rather than the dumpee.
Even after a break up, they often still want to be loved and desired, and may state things in an ambiguous way so that the other person may still be allowed to desire after them now, or at some point. 

I think the book title that states this well is: I hate you, Don't leave me.

That kinda captures it all.
Yup! 100% agreed! I feel this is what my ex did with me.
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michel71
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2017, 10:55:29 PM »

I find that pwBPD have a lot of excuses for EVERYTHING.
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2017, 11:13:24 PM »

Everything in life that she wanted to avoid or get out of doing, her mental health was always the reason.

If it wasn't his mental health, it was his physical health. I could ask him for help on something small and I would get, "Let me go to the bathroom first." By the time he got out, I had it done. Or, he would be too tired or too this or too that.

Excerpt
She was also overwhelmed with everything... Normal day to day tasks that we all do overwhelmed her.

People used to get on my case because our yard would go without being mowed for long periods of time. They would ask ME why he hadn't done it. People would ask ME to explain his behavior because they didn't understand how a man could do so little so regularly. I was in a no win situation. There was one time when there was an issue with some shingles that needed cleaned up from a roof replacement. I dug my heals in and refused to do it. Usually, I would do stuff just so people would stop asking me about stuff. The shingles were a year long battle. He would say it was too hot. Then winter came and it was too cold. Our oldest daughter stepped in and did it. He helped her a little. She and I ended up doing it together. It was so ridiculous. In hindsight, I can't believe I tolerated so much.

Excerpt
If she did leave because she felt too overwhelmed with both the relationship and her own problems, then that was a stupid choice on her part, because I didn't expect her to give me any special treatment and I would have supported her and stood by her, and I would have put my own needs aside (yet again) for her during this time... So I don't know why she would have felt she needed to either work on herself OR the relationship, but not both... .So confusing

Instead of asking why she left, maybe you should be asking yourself why you were so willing to put your needs aside for her. I know what it is like to want to do that. I did it for close to 20 years. I kept thinking that things would get better when <fill in the blank> happened. It could be job related, an illness, or something else. It seemed like there was some kind of reason to explain his behavior. Once one reason would be resolved, another would pop up. It was exhausting.

At some point, all of those unmet needs will sneak up on you and bite you in the butt.

I didn't understand why ex continued to seek other women. I was there. I was real. I had proven to him time and time again that I wasn't leaving. I had proven to him time and time again that there wasn't much I wouldn't do for him. All I wanted was a little bit of respect and consideration. Ultimately, I decided I couldn't do it any more. He used my devotion/loyalty/stupidness/blindness as an excuse to NOT do a darn thing different.

What was so great about her that you were willing to put your needs aside for her? (I have asked myself that question too many times to count.)
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2017, 11:15:36 PM »

I am coming to terms with the answer to that last question. What was so good about her... .? It wasn't her... .it was the idea of her.

Could that be the same for you?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2017, 11:55:33 PM »

What was so great about her that you were willing to put your needs aside for her? (I have asked myself that question too many times to count.)

Because when she wasn't going through something, she met my needs quite well... She only had a problem with meeting my needs, when she currently had needs... Her needs always came before mine it seemed. But when she didn't have anything going on, oh my, I was showered in a lot of attention and admiration... And the sex was fantastic. That's what I was afraid of losing... That's why i stuck it out for so long... Because I was always waiting for that time when she would put her focus on me.
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2017, 08:10:57 AM »

Because I was always waiting for that time when she would put her focus on me.

Did you enjoy the roller coaster ride?

Ultimately, that is what it is. It is a roller coaster ride where you are waiting for the highs. Over time, the highs got lower and lower until they became almost non-existent. When I tell people about some of the stuff that has happened, they paint ex black for me. I can't seem to get people to understand that he wasn't and isn't a monster. He used to be pretty awesome. I wouldn't have married him if I didn't think he was awesome.

Do you think there would ever be a time when she would go a significant period of time without something going on? Were you wanting to spend the rest of your life on that roller coaster ride?


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FallenOne
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2017, 08:35:03 AM »

Did you enjoy the roller coaster ride?

No... But I was willing to tolerate it...

Do you think there would ever be a time when she would go a significant period of time without something going on? Were you wanting to spend the rest of your life on that roller coaster ride?

Yes. There were significant periods of time where she has nothing going on with herself and was fairly balanced, but it never lasted more than a few months at most.

I would have yes... .She was the love of my life and this has not been easy to deal with.
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2017, 08:46:45 AM »

But I was willing to tolerate it.

Tolerating something isn't the same as enjoying it. Simply tolerating something can often lead to resentment in the long run. There were a lot of things that I could tolerate for love. At the end of the day, it wore me down.

Excerpt
Yes. There were significant periods of time where she has nothing going on with herself and was fairly balanced, but it never lasted more than a few months at most.

I know. I have been there. I have been in that place where I thought I was strong enough and patient enough. I have been in that place where I would have tolerated pretty much anything because I loved ex and we had kids together and blah, blah, blah. I don't know what changed in me to help me get over that. I think it was time and realistically seeing that if I didn't do something different, I would spend the rest of my life on that roller coaster ride with him. There might be great time and there might be not so great times. The roller coaster ride tends to get one in the mind set of walking on eggshells and trying to do whatever you can to get the person back to that good spot. I am so tired of living like that.

Excerpt
I would have yes... .She was the love of my life and this has not been easy to deal with.

Break ups aren't easy. Love is illogical at times. Hang in there! It will get better with time even if it doesn't feel like it. There are still days when I wonder, "What the heck have I done?" I know ex would be back here in a heart beat. I can't do that myself no matter how alluring.
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2017, 08:50:31 AM »

I have so many stories from that relationship are stranger than fiction. After being NC for nearly two months, the fog is finally lifting - and after you mentioned it was humourous, I admit laughing a little bit at the whole story felt kind of good. (:

I now have a sense of calm in my life and I'm starting to see all the things I have neglected while in this year long panic attack of a relationship.

 My relationship with her was a rollercoaster of recycling. I have honestly never seen someone lie so much before in my life. As a fixer, I wanted to understand everything, provide support, and make things better. Being in a situation where I would appear to have made some progress and put her on the healthy path, only to realize that the cycle would start all over again - was very painful.

While reading someone's post a week or so ago, I had a bit of what one could consider a "flashback" of a couple of events that transpired. I immediately recognized my high anxiety state that at one point in time was the normal for me, and I now have a better appreciation of my progress to my baseline.

Even if I never find a significant other, I will never be lonely enough to put myself through that. I might be single, but I'm not alone and have good friends that have supported me through everything.  I'm glad I had this experience as I have learned a lot about myself.

I still think about her every day, but I do not miss her at all. I have not lost anything as I never had anything to begin with. I truly feel sorry for her. She did not choose this disease. It's sad knowing that she will never be happy and will never have a relationship like the ones she dreams about. My heart goes out to her, but I cannot help her. Even though she has a clinical diagnosis that I have seen for myself, she still denies it to this day.

I saw her online dating profile the other day and she is actively setting up her cluster of guys. I feel sorry for whoever gets into her path of destruction.

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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2017, 08:55:23 AM »

My ex was supportive during our breakup, turns out he only did that to hide something else. Someone else he wanted.
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 09:11:55 AM »

Everything makes more sense if you understand that everything they do is for themselves.

They must satisfy their intense emotions at whatever cost. They will disassociate from things, forget you exist, break any promise, or betray any trust in the process.

They only exist in the moment. They have every feeling that nons do, but more intense.

 I have no doubt that my ex loved me more than anything - while I was in front of her. The min she ran to another guy, she loved him more than anything and would honestly believe I was the enemy. All it would take was an argument to get her going on that path. She would tell me she was visiting her sister and how much she missed and loved me while in bed with her ex ( I would find the text later ). I'm glad I'm not in that paranoia anymore.

I probably only know about 10% of what she actually did and I do not even want to guess what I don't know. I'm moving on.
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« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2017, 09:21:26 AM »

I have so many stories from that relationship are stranger than fiction. After being NC for nearly two months, the fog is finally lifting - and after you mentioned it was humourous, I admit laughing a little bit at the whole story felt kind of good. (:

I get you. There's can be an absurdity about these relationship that's hard to see when you're in the middle of the chaos but laughter can such a release from the tension and sadness.

Excerpt
I now have a sense of calm in my life and I'm starting to see all the things I have neglected while in this year long panic attack of a relationship.

Good for you. Well done

Excerpt
My relationship with her was a rollercoaster of recycling. I have honestly never seen someone lie so much before in my life. As a fixer, I wanted to understand everything, provide support, and make things better. Being in a situation where I would appear to have made some progress and put her on the healthy path, only to realize that the cycle would start all over again - was very painful.

You seem pretty self aware. Yeah I think when we're seeking validation from fixing others - I certainly did - our perceived failure do this can feel really traumatic.

Excerpt
While reading someone's post a week or so ago, I had a bit of what one could consider a "flashback" of a couple of events that transpired. I immediately recognized my high anxiety state that at one point in time was the normal for me, and I now have a better appreciation of my progress to my baseline.

Even if I never find a significant other, I will never be lonely enough to put myself through that. I might be single, but I'm not alone and have good friends that have supported me through everything.  I'm glad I had this experience as I have learned a lot about myself.

I still think about her every day, but I do not miss her at all. I have not lost anything as I never had anything to begin with. I truly feel sorry for her. She did not choose this disease. It's sad knowing that she will never be happy and will never have a relationship like the ones she dreams about. My heart goes out to her, but I cannot help her. Even though she has a clinical diagnosis that I have seen for myself, she still denies it to this day.

Very healthy and mature conclusions. I would say that she may choose to confront her illness in the future - she may not. Recovery is possible but it has to be self driven and it's a long haul without a guaranteed outcome. The key things is that you have no control over that.

Excerpt
I saw her online dating profile the other day and she is actively setting up her cluster of guys. I feel sorry for whoever gets into her path of destruction.

I agree though I suppose they have their own choices to make too and maybe some of them may need to learn the same lessons we did. The important thing now is you and it sounds like you have grown a lot from the experience.

Good luck and thanks for sharing

Reforming
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« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2017, 09:57:55 AM »



Break ups aren't easy. Love is illogical at times. Hang in there! It will get better with time even if it doesn't feel like it. There are still days when I wonder, "What the heck have I done?" I know ex would be back here in a heart beat. I can't do that myself no matter how alluring.

The statement above boils it all down. Breakups aren't easy and love is illogical at times. That whole "head vs heart" thing. Sheesh!
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« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2017, 10:37:37 AM »

Here is the short and sweet of my experience:

My ex wBPD was easily able to provide support; if I lost my job she was right there giving me comfort. Other instances as well.

HOWEVER, if there was any emotional requirement on her end, nope... .nada. The situation was too overwhelming. As long as she did not take any emotional burden, it went smooth.
Hope that helps.
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« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2017, 11:07:23 AM »

I see a lot of stories about them not being very supportive of you during hard times and bad days, but expecting your unquestioned support...

Mine definitely needed a constant supply of support, and I gave her a lot of support most of the time... She eventually expected my support though... However, when I was going through a hard time, she was actually pretty supportive most of the time as well...

I had lost a few jobs, father was in the hospital, a friend passed away... I got really depressed and emotional when some of this stuff happened, and she was pretty understanding about it.

Is this uncommon?

Because I'm reading a lot about them bailing on people and being harsh when their partners needed support.

I was never allowed to have a bad day. I always had to pretend nothing was wrong even though I was imploding inside. She would take me being upset very personal.

However... .

If there was a loss in the family or a situation with someone in the hospital she was there but barely. Long as I didn't bring her down.

So there is a difference between the two scenarios

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« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2017, 12:52:02 PM »

Matt,

Your ex sounded like, in those statements, that she was emotionally dysregulted, possibly due to engulfment. As a result of that, she put distance between y'all so that she could regain herself. As you said, you always were caught off-guard by this, which is understandable since it was/is based off of her emotional state at the time.

My ex never said stuff like yours, but she's do stuff to place distance between us. Her technique was to start a fight over nothing. Here's an example: we were traveling one time and at the hotel suite she said that my things were taking up too much counter space in the bathroom. The counter was about 8 feet long. My few items--razor, shaving cream, toothpaste/brush, deodorant, etc.--were probably occupying about 1 foot of space, if that. But, she needed distance, so she picked this to launch an argument. There is always BPD reasoning behind the madness. You cannot take what they do and/or say at face value; you have to look at the end results of such statements and/or actions.
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« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2017, 01:52:13 PM »

Everybody is different, mental illness or healthy.

If you want a rundown of unhealthy behaviours, here is what I observed:

Her name is Marie, she was very attractive, educated, worked as an RN. 27 years old. Very charismatic and articulate. Rough childhood. Mom was married 4 times. Story of her Mom taking off from her crazy father. Mentions of sexual abuse. She initially painted her family as a big loving group. That didn't last long.

1. Pathological Lying. Big lies, small lies, lies for no reason. During a moment of clarity she told me that sometimes she would tell a lie - and regret she said it right after it came out. She didn't really understand it. She only would come clean if it was strategic. So many things I just brushed off at first should have set red flags off.

2. Substance abuse. She stole my adderall so many times and lied about it. This is what led her to her official diagnosis - I hid mine and forced her to go see a doc and get her own Rx. The doc did a eval and sent her off with a BPD diag.

3. Inability to be alone - no sense of self. She was an RN and when she didn't have to work she would drop off her 3-year-old son and sleep most of the day. She didn't really have her own hobbies, friends, passions. She did want a family.

4. Creating a safety net of backup guys - She would have a couple of guys on the side at all times. Sometimes all it would take is a mild argument to have her wonder off. I found out about at least 3 guys during a year and a half - but I'm quite certain there were more.

5. Personality change when in front of someone else - when she was with an ex during one of our breakups, I was the bad guy. She would even try to convince them to start something with me.

6. When I would break up with her - she harassed/pursued me like no other. I have never seen anything like it, so I thought I must have been special or really meant something to her. Now I know that she prob did this with every relationship.

7. Projection - Pretty much everything she was guilty of, she saw in me. I had a substance abuse problem, I was cheating, etc... .

8. History of rocky relationships - they all seemed to have a crazy ending, not just the " let's go our separate ways " that I have experienced.
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« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2017, 02:27:20 PM »

and at the same time, that indicates your significance. if she could cope, this wouldnt be necessary. we dont try to erase/remove/evict/provoke someone from our lives who means nothing to us.

If I have a lot of significance to her, then why did she leave me after four years over something so trivial and punish me in such a huge way where I can't even legally contact her?

Why didn't she just try to work it out with me like everything else that we worked through? That is the most frustrating thing to me... We went through so many hard times and survived them, and in the end, she broke it off over something incredibly stupid.
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« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2017, 03:21:55 PM »

I doubt she broke it off over something "small, trivial, and stupid".

I have no doubt told you that was why. But she said a lot of things that were untrue and nuts, besides that, right?

Chances are that the true "reason" is in her head, and has to do with her history and her mental illness--things that have little to do with you.

Perhaps she doesn't understand it, and she's really unlikely to ever explain it to you.
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« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2017, 05:23:21 PM »

I doubt she broke it off over something "small, trivial, and stupid".

I have no doubt told you that was why. But she said a lot of things that were untrue and nuts, besides that, right?

Chances are that the true "reason" is in her head, and has to do with her history and her mental illness--things that have little to do with you.

Perhaps she doesn't understand it, and she's really unlikely to ever explain it to you.

All my wife can ever say is.

'I thought you would be more.'

She doesn't know what it means. I didn't know what it meant. But I do now.

Like all pwBPD she was expecting me to fill that gaping hole in the center of her heart. I gave her my absolute love and it didn't fill it. So she moved onto the next one in her never ending search for what she is missing.
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« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2017, 06:38:03 PM »

I doubt she broke it off over something "small, trivial, and stupid".

I have no doubt told you that was why. But she said a lot of things that were untrue and nuts, besides that, right?

Chances are that the true "reason" is in her head, and has to do with her history and her mental illness--things that have little to do with you.

Perhaps she doesn't understand it, and she's really unlikely to ever explain it to you.

Well, I did ask her if she was thinking about the past the night before the breakup and she said "mmhmm" and then proceeded to throw some of my past mistakes in my face.

Whether or not she was thinking of MY past mistakes, or something else in her past, I don't know. But I feel like our argument the few days before the breakup may have reminded her of my mistakes from the past few years (breakup in the hospital, insults during arguments, yelling back at her when she raged). I had asked her "do you want me to leave you alone?" since she was so upset (but just until she calmed down) and that seemed to make her rage more. Did I trigger abandonment issues? Did I somehow remind her of the hospital breakup or other things I had done?

And yes, she said a lot of things that never added up and seemed untrue... Some of them I proved to be lies.
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« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2017, 07:14:16 PM »

Four years together... I was her longest relationship. We had a few long periods of stability, but in the end it turned into a disaster. This was just over 3 weeks ago.

But since she stayed with me longer than anyone else, does that mean I was the best in her eyes?

I would suggest any man who saw through their BS and dumped them during the infatuation period are the ones which mean most to them. The longer you're with these people the less they respect/want/need us. From their 'I hate myself' perspective, they cannot respect anyone who actually loves them, because they don't love themselves, at all.
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« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2017, 07:55:30 PM »

I would suggest any man who saw through their BS and dumped them during the infatuation period are the ones which mean most to them.

I did breakup with her once during the infatuation period, which was about 9 months into the relationship, just after things started to go south.
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« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »

Matt, you have to make sense of this for yourself. And if you need help, look for sane, wise, perceptive people to provide it. Your ex is not going to give you an explanation that works or helps.

At least the chance of that is about as good as the chance that she will come back and have a healthy relationship with you!   
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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2017, 09:09:45 AM »

Straightforward question. When they left you for a replacement, how long did it last before your replacement did something to piss them off or upset them and they were begging for your attention again?
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2017, 11:23:30 AM »

I haven't heard from xhBPD since the mutual discard. I know a lot of people experience recycling, but that did not happen in my case.

His romantic history said as much as well. Once he discarded, that person was never painted white again.

Matt, may I ask you if you want the relationship back? And are trying to figure out a timeline as to when she will be back?

If so, may I suggest that you start thinking about what you need to do to feel better?

I know when I was obsessing about the disorder, and researching like crazy trying to figure out "why", I did myself a great disservice. I neglected working on me, and healing. I hope better for you.

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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2017, 11:41:58 AM »

Matt, may I ask you if you want the relationship back? And are trying to figure out a timeline as to when she will be back?

I don't necessarily want the relationship back, but would like to be on better terms at least and "clear the air" of misunderstandings...

If so, may I suggest that you start thinking about what you need to do to feel better?

That would make me feel better... I just want to hear about what other people have experienced.

I know when I was obsessing about the disorder, and researching like crazy trying to figure out "why", I did myself a great disservice. I neglected working on me, and healing. I hope better for you.

Maybe so, and I see what you're saying, but at the moment, I can't just go "enjoy life" with everything that I have on my mind... It's physically impossible for me to do this right now... I am taking things one day at a time and it's a slow process. This all just happened 5 weeks ago and I'm not ready to move on and it occupies most of my thoughts. It's not as easy as just trying to forget about it and go have fun...
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« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2017, 11:55:42 AM »

Believe me I understand.

Five weeks is so very early in the detaching process, and people grieve on their own timelines. I had many of my friends asking me when I was going to stop focusing on him and what had happened, and I just wasn't ready to hear it.

Eventually it led me to therapy, which then led me to see my doctor, which led to antidepressants. Once I was able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I began to get better. But it didn't happen until I stopped ruminating about what had I done, what he had done, who was wrong, who was right... just an endless cycle of rumination.

Therapy helped me stop ruminating, which was feeding my depression.

Honestly, it took me about a year to recover. But, I worked very hard at pinpointing what it was about ME that kept me in a dysfunctional relationship. Because let's face it, I made a choice to marry that person, and I knew there were problems. Yet even with those red flags, I charged ahead.

I still question myself - but it no longer needs to be about him anymore. It's about me, if that makes sense to you.

I'm so glad you are posting here, it was so very helpful to me - and still is.

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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2017, 12:27:54 PM »

I think a major reason a 'relationship' with a BPD lasts for longer than a few months is b/c the BPDex is likely filling in several voids for you the non.

Their involvement with us is very superficial, and eventually their positive emotions for us begin to fluctuate wildly, whether we choose to see that or not.  We want it to work, and at many times, it can take years before we realize that much we experienced was TOTALLY different for them.

THEY have perhaps come to you at a time when you really missed/needed validation and romance, or perhaps a 'spark' in your life, not to mention that you may also subscribe to fantasies of an 'ideal' love.

Longest/greatest are not good factors to use in gauging dysfunctional relationships.  It's the dynamic that needs to be explored, and I, like many on here, realized that over the course of 3 years with my BPDex, I lost sight of a lot of reality esp. meeting my wants and needs, all to keep a superficial relationship running on inertia.

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« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2017, 01:06:51 PM »

At the beginning it was couple of weeks or months depending on whoever was using and discarding her at the time.

I went NC for 8 years but she stalked me online, got my number and started it all again. Now there's usually a 6/8 week gap between her poking me again.
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« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2017, 01:46:00 PM »

my ex BPDgf had an ex-boyfriend that she considered her best friend ever because he was there for her in college during her suicide attempt and initial diagnosis of BPD, plus she moved to my town because of him and his job. They stopped being a "couple" after two years because she always screwed around on him (surprise, surprise) but she has always insisted that he will be the one she marries because it's almost like she owes him for putting up with her ___ all these years, and he understands her the best. Of course she has probably been with over 40 guys or more in the ensuing three years where he has been relegated to "best friend" status. Even in our relationship she would still see this guy at least once a week just to eat dinner with him and his roommates... .many times because she would be drunk on a work night after dinner, she would spend the night but insisted that she always slept on the couch because of our relationship... .the ex-boyfriend got layed off from his job in November and he was moving home on the other side of the country during Thanksgiving (which I secretly rejoiced as I thought he was totally manipulating her). It was a total ___ show... .he kept pushing is leave date back, my gf was drinking, crying, agonizing at losing him... .she had no compassion for what it was doing to our relationship... .I spent weeks getting her regulated again after that mess, only for her to tell me three weeks later that she was flying out to see him for 10 days over the holidays... .no concerns for us, no discussion, I needed to accept it as she was going out to help with an intervention for his alcoholic father... .even though she was an alcoholic herself and refused to get BPD treatment... .and I later found out that she never really got to see his father but maybe once for 10 minutes... .and she went on a romantic ski trip with her ex and another couple... .but I'm sure she slept on the couch... .she dumped me when she came back... .

Of course, I thought I was her best and longest relationship since her time with him years ago... .but if she is going to screw around on him (the guy she is going to marry some day when she stops screwing around) then I was just another guy at another time in her life; so what does it matter to me if she thinks I was the best?
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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2017, 02:43:14 PM »

Straightforward question. When they left you for a replacement, how long did it last before your replacement did something to piss them off or upset them and they were begging for your attention again?

I will challenge you that it's not really a straight forward question and the quality of your questions are important to healing. You would do better to dig a little deeper as members will be able to engage you more. That's better than asking lots of tangential questions and abandoning the responses.

Isn't the real question, how likely am I to be amble to resolve the conflict we had 5 weeks ago that ended up with her getting a RO and taking up with another man, and get back together?  And if not get back together, have her apologize for doing the RO and validate you?

Isn't the place to ask this the Saving board?

If you're detaching (and, yes I know, this really sucks), a better question might be How do I resolve this hurt I feel for losing her - especially with another guy now in the picture - and how to I resolve the injustice/humiliation I feel for having a restraining order tagged on me.

It's hard but you have to dial in on what you're facing and what you might want.

Which question and board makes sense for you right now?
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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2017, 05:00:08 PM »

At the beginning it was couple of weeks or months depending on whoever was using and discarding her at the time.

I went NC for 8 years but she stalked me online, got my number and started it all again. Now there's usually a 6/8 week gap between her poking me again.
May I ask how did you know you were being stalked online? I belive my ex is stalking me on FB. Every time I change my profile pic she does hers. And she even set her her picture the same way mine is. I'm blocked but a mutual friend of ours showed me and boy it's scary. My ex discarded me Sept 2015. Got the usual Fake FB messages , hang ups emails etc. Crazy. They don't want us but there happy Stalking us.
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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2017, 05:06:47 PM »

"I love you, you're intoxicating, but you're not good for my mental health"

I think this is a classic soft goodbye, easy let down.

It's me, not you.
I love you but I'm not in love with you.

People often feel guilty breaking up - especially when the other person really didn't do anything to deserve it. Women, especially, have a lot of guilt.

It's hard, because this is one time we really try to hear them.

I think any form of "I want to go backward in this relationship (back to friends, back to maybe another day, back to when I'm healthy, back to when the Cubs first won the World Series) is it's over. It could be a timid, unsure, I'm over.

That's my thought.

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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2017, 05:29:38 PM »

Did you enjoy the roller coaster ride?

I didn't even realize I was on one at first... I thought it was just typical relationship arguments and blowups, until the frequency and severity of it increased with time. I enjoyed the highs for sure, but when the lows came, I was always waiting around for the highs to come back because they were so good.

It is a roller coaster ride where you are waiting for the highs. Over time, the highs got lower and lower until they became almost non-existent.

Exactly. I was (and still am) like an addict waiting around for a "fix" or waiting for the good times to come back... I even remember having several conversations with her about "getting back to the way things were" and "getting back to how things were in the beginning" and she agreed but it never came...

Do you think there would ever be a time when she would go a significant period of time without something going on? Were you wanting to spend the rest of your life on that roller coaster ride?

Oh yes, absolutely. There were periods of months at a time where nothing happened sometimes, and that gave me a lot of hope that it could stay that way. But there was no such thing as a simple argument, almost all of them blew up and escalated into huge blowout arguments. I wanted to (and still do) spend my life with her, but I don't think she's capable of being stable for any length of time.
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2017, 05:39:33 PM »

Isn't the real question, how likely am I to be amble to resolve the conflict we had 5 weeks ago that ended up with her getting a RO and taking up with another man, and get back together?  And if not get back together, have her apologize for doing the RO and validate you?

How do I resolve this hurt I feel for losing her - especially with another guy now in the picture - and how to I resolve the injustice/humiliation I feel for having a restraining order tagged on me.

Which question and board makes sense for you right now?

Honestly, both questions make a lot of sense to me right now, and I'm asking myself both, but I don't know how to answer them...

I wish I knew how to answer both of those questions. Maybe someone can help me answer them?

She's seeing a girl though (who she left multiple times to come back to me)

That is one of the most frustrating things right now... That I still love this person and they cut me out of their lives overnight and got an RO and I have no explanation, no reasons, no closure, no nothing... And I'm not even able to make any legal contact to try and resolve this or get anything out of her... After four years, can't be friends, can't even make amends or be on good terms?

I still don't even know what happened that caused her to want to leave... I was never given a chance to explain myself or anything.
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« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2017, 07:53:50 PM »

It was me the question was directed to so I'll reply anyway.

I have a business website and I can view my visitor stats. About 6 months before she recontacted me I noticed I was getting daily visits from a network identified as the place where she used to work when I last saw her.

Then when she finally did get in touch she made mention of several very specific things that were on my Facebook page.

Also I'm a member of a very specific hobby forum website. In a subsection of that website forum there is a thread where we discuss general daily issues that get us down. I mentioned my crazy ex who had got back in touch and was bringing me down (I didn't know about BPD at that point). I got several responses telling me what to do including one to block her number. So I did. (Pointless me changing my number as it has to be available on my business website) The next morning I got an angry text from a new number saying how dare I talk about her online. I was completely freaked out - she'd been stalking me on my hobby website for months. She'd read I'd blocked her number so bought a new phone the next day to berate me. Now, keep in mind by admitting she'd read my posts she'd just outed herself as stalking me - but she was completely fine with that, the issue was that I was asking for advice about my crazy ex online. How dare I?

Me asking for advice = bad
Her stalking and being found out = yeah, she's ok with that.

Turns out she'd also been stalking me via instagram and backtracked my username to that forum.

She's admitted all of this now and just laughs it off - but it was creepy as ___ for a while. That was two years ago now.

She still does it, only two weeks ago she drunk texts me telling me I'm sad for having online friends. It's just water off a ducks back now - I kind of take solace knowing she's going to spend her life in an unhappy marriage. That sounds mean I know, but we all deal with these things in our own way.

---

As for why they do it, why stalk us? I kind of get the feeling they know we're the best they ever had. They have a life but it's not great, probably run of the mill average, and they see us as an always available retreat - the one who was always there for them and completes them the way they complete us, but that doesn't ever mean they're coming back or you should take them back. We're a fantasy figure for them as much as they are for us - we're just as addictive from a distance. They like to keep tabs because they're territorial and jealous and don't want anyone moving in on their territory. - they like to keep us in reserve for a fix.

If you think they're stalking you, the best thing you can do is live a happy life, get in shape and look good and let them know just what they're missing.

That or ignore them - you deserve better.
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« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2017, 08:04:24 PM »

A month, when it's happened in the past.

However this time 'feels' different. Also, although part of me wants a relationship, I kinda was trying to get out of it regardless.
In a way, it was a mutual breakup and I even wrote her to express that.
This actually has been our longest NC period. Working on almost 2 months

So in this sense, Ima assume I'll get something 6 months to a year out. If not that, then never. Which is fine, although it'll be a long journey to actually 'feel' fine.
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Kaster21

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« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2017, 08:50:55 PM »

well... .there's "trauma bonding."  That is when you go through a lot of ups and downs with someone (even if they are the cause of the ups and downs) then the attachment we feel towards them is greater compared to an attachment that has little or no conflict.

Then there's the "Sunk-Cost Fallacy." If I've already put in so much emotional/time investment into a relationship, I might be more inclined to stick it out further because I don't want to "waste" all my previous investment.

Because that which is causing us pain is also perceived as the most immediate means to alleviate us from this pain.  Sounds more or less like an addictive substance, no?


It's because you associate that person with pleasure instead of pain. Just like Trent Shelton says. We go back to what makes us feel good even though it's bad for us because of all the feelings of pleasure we associate with that person. When you learn to associate something different to them you feel differently towards them. So you have to take that association you have with them which is pleasure and remember all the bad things they did and associate their name or who they are to pain!
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Bo123
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« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2017, 11:39:12 PM »

I agree with ICESOUL and my situation, she's now with a guy who has passion(i.e. quick sex) not interested in her long term, drinks more than moderately, smokes, and a job at his age... .well.

I also felt at times like I was raising a child, she had a PhD, don't know if her very strict parents or Catholic school played a part or not but there were times when the saying "They have a PhD but can't tie their shoe" really fit.  She would stir fry with the lid off, grease splatters over all the other burners.  Next night, cooking, smoke alarm goes off, gets on a chair and waves a magazine at the detector and says why does this thing keep going off.  Happened at least 20 times, I mention put the lid on and what do I get... .the silent treatment.  She cooked late, I worked early, finally told her if the alarm wakes me up again at midnight and I have to be up at 4 am, I will start spending my early shifts nights at my house.  Of course it happened again and she complains and pouts I only spend 6 nights a week at her place.  If I live to be 150, I will never understand that and taught her to ride a bicycle, easy shift, she god good at riding but on a hill I nicely numerous times told her how to downshift w/o even having to take her hand off the handlebar, never learned and again the silent treatment.  A 7 year old could have followed all the above with ease, so why oh why did virtually nothing ever sink in.  I was kind, gentle, teach part time in complex environments and applied all the training, patience, support, reinforcement and good jobs I could and yet I also felt like ICESOUL, a dad rather than a fiance.  I think BPD's are such a tangled web that even the brightest of us all if we're not familiar with BPD can and do get entangled in the web they call their life.  It's also what makes it so difficult to break-up and recover from and unknown person.
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neverloveagain
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« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2017, 01:39:47 AM »

 Because there's a part of us broken to. It takes this experience to realise.
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stimpy
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2017, 04:42:12 AM »

This was almost the strangest thing about the whole relationship. After the discard, I had about a year of this, blank emails, withheld number phone calls, coming to social events she knew I'd be at, following me on "Meetup" (a website with events for people to socialise at).

Did she ever actually talk to me... .No

It was the start of realising just how messed up she is - no normal person would do this.

She was very manipulative, when she came to the social events I was at, she would go out of her way to hang around near me, flirt with other guys, but not once actually talk to me. A few times, she hung around near me on her own, kinda inviting me to come over. The two times I did, I was immediately punished - once by being told to go away, the second time by her just walking away.

Why do it? Why put all that effort into someone you'd dumped?

In my case, I think it was a combination of

- seeing if I'm still interested
- maintaining the drama and crisis
- giving herself an ego boost
- filling the void in her life left by her ending the relationship
- punishing me for not begging for her to come back
- trying to prevent me from moving on
- showing me how little I meant to her by giving me the silent treatment

Of course, the weird thing is that the effort she put into all this showed that on some level I really did matter to her and that she herself found it hard to just move on like a normal person would after dumping their partner.

I gave it a term... ."stalking but not talking"

It is really sick and sad, but in a way helped convince me to not go back or think it could ever work. To me this is the behaviour of a child and no adult relationship would be possible with her.

She's left me alone now for about 6 or 7 months, but I do have an anxiety that she may start the games again one day, I guess that is the consequence of getting involved with someone who is mentally ill.






 
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FSTL
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« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2017, 05:00:11 AM »

Mine was just a lot more direct and "dangled" herself (eg showing up where she knew I would be, or bumping into me at work, or coming up with a completely BS reason for reaching out to me).

I think the reasons are possibly the same... .they fear abandonment, so want to keep some connection with us on some level. They also want to be in control. And they get depressed due to their emptiness.

In your case, "connection" may be stalking, in my case she wants interaction as it helps with her depression as I make her feel better (at least temporarily). But they probably want to be in control as well... .so mine will duck in, make contact, then break contact once her needs are met. I then can't abandon her, she is abandoning me. Your's may just feel the need to see you, then want out as it is too scary for any more.
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Pretty Woman
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The Greatest Love is the Love You Give Yourself


« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2017, 11:25:34 AM »

You are not addicted to HER. You are addicted to the "idea" of her.

What she has presented you when things were "good" was her false self. She showed you her TRUE self when she filed a restraining order on you, when she slept with other people and lied to you. THAT is who she really is, stripped down to her core.

Many times we are also addicted to the drama. All the break ups and they came back... .until they finally didn't which left you WANTING another "fix".

When the game changes that's when we are forced to take a long hard look at ourselves. There is nothing special about your ex.

It sounds mean but there isn't. There are hundreds of others out there just like her, using and abusing others.

Why do we WANT that? It doesn't sound all that great, does it?

When it comes down to it you have to find it within yourself to break the pattern. In your situation you are being forced to not speak with her, for fear of legal action.

Work on why you put up with this behavior. If a stranger did these things to you would you tolerate it?

That is EXACTLY what she is, a stranger. She never lived up to any promises and changed on a dime right?

You never really knew her. The person you wanted her to be never existed.
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Reforming
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« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2017, 01:30:15 AM »

Staff only

This thread has been locked due to reaching its post limit. 

The discussion is continued here

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304770.0
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