Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
January 27, 2021, 12:52:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
84
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Could all of these problems be avoided simply by how we date?  (Read 1884 times)
RomanticFool
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1063


« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »

The whole slut shaming culture is ridiculous. I’ve had sex quickly (bar one) with almost every woman I’ve had a r/s with. Many of them weee loyal, loving and exclusive. In my experience a lot of men are sluts and not to be trusted. I know men who are in long term relationships who have 3 or 4 other women on the go. How would you describe them?
Logged

Lady Itone
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 238



« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2018, 12:25:13 PM »

A gentle reminder, men:

Women enjoy sex too. If we go to bed with you early on in the relationship, it's not necessarily to "hook" you, and it's not necessarily because we don't respect ourselves, and we won't necessarily turn into a stage 5 clinger afterwards. Promiscuity can be a red flag in either gender, but just as often, it is not.

I go to bed with people I'm interested in because a good sex life is a priority to me. I'm not going to date someone for months only to find out they suck in the sack.

Excerpt
Quotes from Husband321
 
"I am saying a red flag, perhaps larger, could be a woman who never saw you before in her life wanting to pull her pants down and have you inside of her. No worry about disease. Pregnancy etc. in that vulnerable position she could also be easily harmed in any ways.  It's more or less a dangerous thing to do for a girl."

"I do believe , by all accounts, a true BPD woman is very impulsive sexually.  I know in my case , it never would have even made it 3 consecutive non sexual dates as she NEEDS that instant bond, and would have found it elsewhere."

"The scarier part in today's world is that if you meet a girl online, a total stranger, and have sex quickly, it is very likely she does that all the time. No matter what she says. So we can learn tools to validate them, prevent fights etc.  But preventing a BPD woman from getting that rush of excitement with total strangers is nearly impossible."

I assume you aren't literally dealing with "girls" but grown-up women. So, what is your personal responsibility in this? Would you tell a woman it is a red flag that a "boy" who never saw her before in his life is willing to pull his pants down and get inside her? Shouldn't he be just as worried about disease or getting someone pregnant, etc? What I'm saying is, if it's a red flag that SHE had sex before the 3rd date, isn't it a red flag that YOU had sex before the 3rd date?  

You loved this woman's sexiness. Nothing wrong with that. You use the word sexy to describe her constantly. So why then would you decide that such sexiness is a bad thing now that you're not benefiting from it anymore?

In the future, if you don't want to have sex early on, don't. There's plenty of women out there who prefer to wait. But if you're entering into a relationship with a sex goddess, you have to deal with the fact that very sexual women tend to be, well, very sexual. And maybe not only with you.

Peace.

Logged

Husband321
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 370


« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2018, 12:36:17 PM »


In the future, if you don't want to have sex early on, don't. There's plenty of women out there who prefer to wait. But if you're entering into a relationship with a sex goddess, you have to deal with the fact that very sexual women tend to be, well, very sexual. And maybe not only with you.

Peace.


Yes. I agree. Sort of what I am saying. They may not be long term marriage material.

And I am not talking about a first date where you know the person. Or even after 2 or 3 dates.

I mean the internet stranger who is willing to drop panties immediately. They can be fun , if kept to that level.  Not long term material.

What do they say? Sexy, single or sane.  But you can only have 2.

A lot for this thread. But obviously male and females are vastly different in many ways. Unless there is a thriving "sugar mommy" industry, any regular guy can be a male prostitute for women because there is so much demand, and women court men.

Post an ad looking for sex as a woman . You will get 500 replies. No matter what you look like. Try that as a guy.  You might get one if lucky.

Logged
Husband321
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 370


« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2018, 12:37:37 PM »

The whole slut shaming culture is ridiculous. I’ve had sex quickly (bar one) with almost every woman I’ve had a r/s with. Many of them weee loyal, loving and exclusive. In my experience a lot of men are sluts and not to be trusted. I know men who are in long term relationships who have 3 or 4 other women on the go. How would you describe them?

I would describe them as insecure.  Liars. Addicts. Flawed people.
Logged
once removed
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 11517



« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2018, 12:51:27 PM »

What do they say? Sexy, single or sane.  But you can only have 2.

i dont know what has led you to that conclusion Husband321, but that seems like a reasonable place to dig.
Logged

     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
Husband321
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 370


« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2018, 12:53:50 PM »

i dont know what has led you to that conclusion Husband321, but that seems like a reasonable place to dig.

Somewhat of a joke, but also a little truth behind it. I can't take credit for inventing that saying.
Logged
Cromwell
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1856



« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2018, 02:55:33 PM »

Husband with regards to one way of solving the problem;

Venue

Where did you have sex on the first date with her? Her place, Yours?

If im looking for more than casual sex, want to build up rapport for potential longer term relationships, I always prefer to meet for lunch somewhere as the initial start.
Logged
Husband321
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 370


« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2018, 03:14:42 PM »

Husband with regards to one way of solving the problem;

Venue

Where did you have sex on the first date with her? Her place, Yours?

If im looking for more than casual sex, want to build up rapport for potential longer term relationships, I always prefer to meet for lunch somewhere as the initial start.

Yes. It was my house.  2 days later I went to her house to meet her mom.

I'm not trying to "blame her" for that.  I was definitely not turning her down and I played my part.
 
I think when I had my first gf I was 18. She was 16. I found out she kissed a guy a year prior.  Her and I dated for many months and didn't have sex.  But when I found out she kissed a guy, I felt pretty sick.

Then I find myself at the other end of the spectrum.  Thinking it is normal to have sex with a future partner within a couple hours.  Whom I never even met before.

So I am personally trying to figure out if there is some logic to "dating correctly", that would help weed out women with issues.  If that makes any sense. Or if there is a possible correlation. Logically I can see one.




Logged
RomanticFool
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1063


« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2018, 03:55:46 PM »

Excerpt
A gentle reminder, men:

Women enjoy sex too. If we go to bed with you early on in the relationship, it's not necessarily to "hook" you, and it's not necessarily because we don't respect ourselves, and we won't necessarily turn into a stage 5 clinger afterwards. Promiscuity can be a red flag in either gender, but just as often, it is not.

I totally agree with this. I don't know anybody in my world who judges either gender for enjoying sex. Those kind of attitudes went out in the dark ages quite frankly!
Logged

Cromwell
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1856



« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2018, 03:59:38 PM »

Yes. It was my house.  2 days later I went to her house to meet her mom.

I'm not trying to "blame her" for that.  I was definitely not turning her down and I played my part.
 
I think when I had my first gf I was 18. She was 16. I found out she kissed a guy a year prior.  Her and I dated for many months and didn't have sex.  But when I found out she kissed a guy, I felt pretty sick.

Then I find myself at the other end of the spectrum.  Thinking it is normal to have sex with a future partner within a couple hours.  Whom I never even met before.

So I am personally trying to figure out if there is some logic to "dating correctly", that would help weed out women with issues.  If that makes any sense. Or if there is a possible correlation. Logically I can see one.

Ive had sex within 5 minutes of meeting some women, but the fact is, I advertised myself as wanting NSA hook ups and prior to meeting there will have been conversation , sexting phone calls, sharing of pictures as a pre-cursor. Perhaps this is where technology comes into play where it didnt from when you were younger? In that respect, things have changed broadly and this is common place - if that dating style is what you are after, which I was at the time. Its basically just a meat market and if in the midst of that you happen to start to like the woman and she likes you, it can develop into more from that - if both agree to it. To use the word 'natural' its along the lines of how if a guy wants an attractive woman one route is to become her friend first, and that can develop if she ends up liking his personality without necessarily liking his looks as much. This doesnt work as well in reverse for women befriending men.

So I highlighted "whom I never met before" - before I got into a long term relationship with my ex, she had been a casual sex partner for 6 months, and we kept in touch and got to know each other more. Its all up to you how much you want to do this - its equally ok to just say "see you next time", and get a text when she was available. There doesnt need to be any personal connection. In hindsight, this would have spared me what I went through - but no-one has a crystal ball, the sexual chemistry was great and the rapport otherwise was too. If she was open and honest, she would have in a reasonable space of time said she had BPD, some might say its none of my business, I think from everything ive experienced and learned as a result; it is a significant declaration to make to a potential long term relationship and let them have a choice of what they are getting into. Thats the part where I feel manipulated. I can understand to some extent her choosing to hide it - the stigma attached - if I would have put it into a search engine - found a board like this and not already been emotionally enmeshed - I wouldnt have even started with her.

Dating has to be open and honest from both sides, ive had nice women but the rapport from their side was bad; like trying to interrogate a prisoner of war - that could be explained by shyness - but those are the ones I have discarded - they are wasting time that can be spent dating elsewhere who will be open as a route to becoming intimate.

Sex can happen at any time and is not what id call a red flag, but i do fully appreciate where you are getting at, in the absence of having a real personality on offer, there is a need to over-compensate on the sexual part. Id say if you want to avoid being trapped like before, focus beyond the sex but dont feel bad about it, ensure more caution is taken to get to know the woman and get them to reveal sufficient personality and genuine rapport - as opposed to mirroring. I think it should be easy to do after what youve been through - I wouldnt worry about it. Again, the statistics of it happening to me again are low in the first place, if I was to encounter BPD or other troublesome disorders, ive done enough homework and had enough experience to screen them.

Someone else said about techniques to make us "less attractive as a victim" - thats not so much about changing our own personalities as it is external factors - you mentioned you had a lot of stress in your life that made you vulnerable at the time - for me that is a perfectly valid explanation. I was in a vulnerable position too - if I hadnt been, I would have exercised more care and caution than I was able to at the time.

Dont let it jade your outlook so that it puts broad sweeping generalisations - I think doing so can be a natural response to the trauma but in time a more realistic survey of the landscape returns.
Logged
RomanticFool
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1063


« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2018, 04:03:00 PM »

Excerpt
Yes. It was my house.  2 days later I went to her house to meet her mom.

I'm not trying to "blame her" for that.  I was definitely not turning her down and I played my part.

I think this is very telling Husband.

Excerpt
I think when I had my first gf I was 18. She was 16. I found out she kissed a guy a year prior.  Her and I dated for many months and didn't have sex.  But when I found out she kissed a guy, I felt pretty sick.

Then I find myself at the other end of the spectrum.  Thinking it is normal to have sex with a future partner within a couple hours.  Whom I never even met before.

Was alcohol involved in any of this? It was usually a factor for me when I was younger. It loosens the inhibitions for sure.

Excerpt
So I am personally trying to figure out if there is some logic to "dating correctly", that would help weed out women with issues.  If that makes any sense. Or if there is a possible correlation. Logically I can see one.

Love is a risk. You can never be sure of anybody but perhaps don't jump into bed in a couple of hours next time and see if it makes a difference.
Logged

WantToBeFree
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 66


« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2018, 12:35:18 AM »

I think you have a good theory, however, I think a lot of it is coming from a hindsight perspective.  It's soo easy to look back at what we did wrong, but so hard to do it right the first time through.

For me, my uBPD stbEx WAS a set up from a friend/family member.  In my case, this hurt me more.  I felt like he had to be a good guy if my really good friend was setting me up with her cousin who she adored and "vouched" for him so-to-speak.  Now my case may be a little unique because I have long since parted ways with my friend/cousin-in-law because she was very unstable and out there, and I guess I didn't really know her as well as I thought I did prior to becoming a part of her family.  And I am since speculating that perhaps she is BPD as well, or at least is dealing with a lot of mental health issues herself. 

However, I don't think her being mentally well would have really made a difference.  Family sticks their head in the sand, they don't always want to admit bad things about their loved ones, so she could have been perfectly stable and still set me up with him. 

Secondly, I fell in love with the idea of marrying my good friend's cousin.  I fell in love with the idea of it, the "cute story" it would make one day to tell our grandkids and I ignored red flags because of this.

I think it also depends on where you are in life.  When I met my stb ex, I was 28, a year out from a break up that I was still licking my wounds over, and THAT relationship had been the first thing I would consider to be a serious relationship in a very long time, so I was starting to worry I would never find the one.  My biological clock was ticking, I was afraid I'd never get married and have kids. As it was, my stb ex and I didn't get married till we were 31, started trying for a baby at 32, but due to infertility and losses, we didn't have our one and only living child until we were 34, almost 35.  For women that want to have kids, the pressure is very real to find someone and make it work, no matter how much your gut is telling you that this is wrong, and you should leave.

Plus, there is the plain old syndrome of having rose colored glasses on.  Things that we can see so clearly as being red flags and bad things now, we rationalized and excused because we liked/loved them so much and wanted to make it work.  My stb ex was abusive, but of course, his abuse was not evident and obvious right away, so by the time I recognized it for what it was, I was in too deep. 

Now that I am almost 40, I'm done having kids, I've had the big fairytale wedding and really have no desire to ever get married again, I really truly think I can go into any future relationship with my eyes wide open, spot any red flags right away, and get the hell out before it's too late.  I don't NEED to be with anyone, I have my daughter and that's all I need.  A man would just be someone to spend time with, have fun with and have someone to go places with, so anyone not worth their salt will be gone before they know what hit them.  BUT... .I say all that now, but who really knows when you are "in love" and so intoxicated by a person and so attracted to them.  It really is so hard to think clearly and view things objectively.  I hope and pray we can all go on to find happy, healthy relationships in the future. 
Logged
Cromwell
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1856



« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2018, 08:23:37 AM »

Hi WantToBeFree

I share nowadays much of the same outlook, I can relate, dreams never materialised in the complete form that were hoped for - but the end result is having gone through and reaching a new perspective, for myself it led to knowing better of what I want for my future, being content with what I have now as a solid ground. Sounds to me that you overcame the emotions at the time and have a clear idea of what you want in the future, my own experience actually helped to cast new perspective on how realistic my dreams were in the first place. I undertand the pressures that might have over-ridden judgement - that biological clock, I had my own vulnerabilities that aggravated and influenced sound decision making - they have been valuable learning experiences that in time I have become grateful for, they enhance the future as opposed to becoming entrenched in past regrets. Thanks for sharing what you went through.
Logged
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8427


« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2018, 09:05:21 AM »

As a side note, I think very few women are like men in that they can admit they cheated.  Men might be like "yeah.  I was dumb. I screwed up". Where as most women will not be able to do that.  It will always be the husbands fault that drove them to cheat.

FACT CHECK Studies show that women are far more likely to confess affairs then men.
Logged

 
Husband321
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 370


« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2018, 09:36:13 AM »

FACT CHECK Studies show that women are far more likely to confess affairs then men.

"My husband was really abusive, cheated on me constantly, and ignored me,  so I had to get away".

Is that confessing an affair? Not even sure what that means. Confessing to who? When? Why? Is that taking ownership of the affair too?

I am talking about the woman who destroys a family through cheating. I have never once heard "I really messed up by cheating.  It is my fault "

Would be interesting to read exactly what these studies mean

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1211104/Think-men-unfaithful-sex-A-study-shows-WOMEN-biggest-cheats--theyre-just-better-lying-it.html
Logged
WonderingGirl

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 27


« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2018, 10:06:33 AM »

I read a lot of these stories, and often times Non's seem to be hard on themselves.  Blaming themselves for being with a BPD and putting up with so much, for so long... And then even feeling bad about it afterward... .And longing for them at times...

In my view it is quite natural to fall for a BPD.

A. Meet a girl you find attractive.
B. Instant sex. or rather quickly.
C. Mirroring
D. Promises, mixed with all sorts of lies about their past, present,  and who they are. 

So naturally, it is easy to succumb and fall for someone who is an expert, consciously, or subconsciously, at acting like this.

It is also natural to try and help, or try and fix a relationship.

It is also natural to experience loss and deep sadness when they are gone... THEY are the ones with the mental disorder. Not us.

So, what if we dated how people dated long ago?

1.Has anyone here been fixed up with a BPD from a friend, or family member?

2. Has anyone here actually got to know a BPD on several dates BEFORE anything sexual happened?

3. Has anyone here asked questions about the past, family, and parental relationships of their BPD long before sex occurred?


If I had to bet, I would guess most people with a BPD met them on the internet. At a bar. Often times someone new in town. A complete stranger, and they proceeded to have sex with them quickly.  During which time our reptilian brain kicks in, and we look past everything to get sex, love, attention etc.

So I don't think it is any deep psychological problem us non's have, or anything that needs to be "fixed', other than how we choose to date and find a relationship.

I made the same mistake. I think if I would have just went on 5 to 10 non sexual dates, (probably 2), just having normal conversations, all of her stories would have made no sense, it would be easy to tell she is a liar, and all of this would have been avoided.


 

Hi,
I have been reading through your post, and I admit I still have more to read. But I have found it to be really interesting, and I can certainly see some connections, but like some I want to share my story too.

I did meet SO online, We talked for months online before we met. I kind of egged on more sexual stuff then he did. Not once in our talking did he ever try to talk sexual to me. He told me a whole ton of information about his life. All of which turned out to be true, and not exaggerated or anything. He was more nervous then me, and that is saying a lot. I knew he was on house arrest for a previous domestic (one time thing), but due to the reasoning my friends egged me on. They did not think the domestic for the reason he had it was that bad. It was the truth, at least.  He has never really lied to me, that I know of. I met his dad the first night we met. We did have sex the firs time we met. We spent about 12 hours together. We spent every night I did not have my son together, and eventually that progressed to every night, and me kind of officially moving in.

I knew who family sucked, as I saw it with my own eyes. Nothing was ever hidden from me. I knew of his past. as time went on, He was the one who said he loved me first, I was still to anxious to be there. He had mostly depression spouts our first year together, and im just seeing the anger recently. He tells me he is a bad person. He is very self aware of his actions, but I am the one who choose not to walk away. He is pretty high functioning BPD compared to some I have read on the board though.
Logged
Cromwell
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1856



« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2018, 10:09:56 AM »

42.5% of people know that 78.6% of statistics, studies and academic research is 55.3% absolutely correct.

Id pay to be an observer on the day my ex would get a telephone survey on cheating and what her genuine responses would be.

If the goal is pre-set to try and find fault, there is a treasure trove of resources out there to present as validation. It always works both ways though.
Logged
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8427


« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2018, 10:18:56 AM »


Husband321, that is a color article from the Daily Mail.

The title says: A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats.

The data cited in article: Affairs, 20 per cent for men, 15 per cent for women

The expert cited in article: He was just arrested for harassing his girlfriend who has been secretly cheating on him. As for the study - there was none. The "expert" has no study/work in this field.  
https://www2.mmu.ac.uk/hpsc/our-staff/browse/department-of-psychology/profile/index.php?id=814
Logged

 
RomanticFool
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1063


« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2018, 12:50:16 PM »

Husband321,

If you’re basing your entire philosophy of women being cheats on an extremely right wing newspaper’s perspective, I suggest your views may be slightly skewed. It’s like going to Fox News for objectivity.

RF
Logged

once removed
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 11517



« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2018, 05:10:19 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its posting limit and has been locked.
Logged

     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: 1 2 [3]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
Amethyste
Angie59
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
assumezero
At Bay
Avanzando
Baglady
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaintTheGoat
FaithHopeLove
FindingMe2011
Forgiveness
freespirit
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
hopeandchoices
I Am Redeemed
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Jonthan
Katrinalove
Kwamina
l8kgrl
LLgreen
Longterm
lorymac
lovenature
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Meridius
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
needPeace
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
once removed
Only Human
otherlife
palynne
PeacefulMom
Pedro
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
Sad4Her
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SBBayArea
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Silverhope
Skip
songbirdtwo
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
townhouse
truthbeknown
turtleengine501
Ventak
vinnie77
Violet00
wavewatcher
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
Whichwayisup
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zachira
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!