peaceful divorce?

[Goosey]

My divorce is stalled because she won’t respond to lawyer.
A friend told me she won’t settle ever because then we are divorced and she can no longer f-/-k with me.
Today I realized that finally.
It is what it is. Today I have no fog about it all. I hope this clarity lasts.

[mart555]

My divorce is stalled because she won’t respond to lawyer.
A friend told me she won’t settle ever because then we are divorced and she can no longer f-/-k with me.
Today I realized that finally.
It is what it is. Today I have no fog about it all. I hope this clarity lasts.

Yeah it will last.  And yes, they stall because they fear losing control over us. Mine is the same. We're in for the long run and the system enables them. 

[yeeter]

Yeah it will last.  And yes, they stall because they fear losing control over us. Mine is the same. We're in for the long run and the system enables them. 

Very common I would say.  There is a saying 'it takes two to argue'.  Not true in divorce court, it only takes ONE.  There is nothing you can do to get an unreasonable person to behave in a reasonable manner.  The legal system allows/enables it.

The only way around, is through...

Unfortunately I dont actually know what it takes to get through, since I am still just getting started (15months and counting, the most of which was spent trying to be reasonable/peaceful...)

Best advice I have:  Any time you are feeling 'hope' that it can be less conflicted.  Any time you are feeling the need to behave in a reasonable fashion hoping it will be reciprocated.  Come here and post these thoughts and let the others here share their stories and attempts at these very same experiences. 

[ForeverDad]

My divorce took nearly two years.  If you include our months of separation before the divorce, it was over two years.  Why?  She had a very favorable temporary order.

Actually we had two temp orders.  During the separation she was facing a Threat of DV case yet over in family court she was gifted a temp custody and temp majority time order with the typical mother-preference policy common here.  In time the separation orders were dismissed.  Predictably that's when I stopped getting assess to my preschooler.  That's when I filed for divorce.  There was some 3 months of no contact before the divorce temp order hearing was held, yes, with the same magistrate as before.

My story, I didn't know it would be 3 months away from my son...

Also, when we did get our divorce hearing the magistrate asked her directly if she had withheld our preschooler.  He wasn't fazed by her confirmation.  All he said was, "I'll fix that."  He issued an almost identical temp order as we had before.  No consequences for her, no make-up time for me.  For me it was my very life and parenting, for him it was another day at the office and another case before him.

However, she caved on Trial morning nearly two years later, after months of forcing us to go through every possible step of the divorce process, including a few continuances where scheduled events were delayed.

Why?  In part at least, it helped her remain with a favorable temp order for as long as possible.

That's also a reason why I encourage our members to get the temp order as favorable as possible.  Our cases tend to go on and on for much longer than typical divorce cases.  In our cases "temporary" is a misnomer.

[mrlala]

Bad update here: After we gave her the 3rd deadline to move out, she filed a RO against me with hearing on Monday. Wish me luck!

[ForeverDad]

In regards to behavior, I am not physically afraid of her but I am afraid of her calling the cops on me and getting arrested again. Whats just happening is so 6 years ago I thought we would be over these kind of things. Of course I would not have married her like that. For a few years it went reasonably well.

You avoided that this time because you listened to peer support and kept your distance clear of her.  That is good.

She may be thinking that she can refer to the past and try to link that incident to today.  On the one hand, courts typically view incidents older than 6 months as "stale" and outdated unless there's an attempt to make it appear part of a larger pattern.  Six years ago... she probably can't stretch it that far.

Be prepared for new allegations, more than what she's included in her RO petition.  She probably can't substantiate what she has alleged or will allege.  She will try to claim abuser/victim scenario, a highly emotional approach.

Despite there being no proof ("unfounded") — and most of us have found it hard to get that declaration — it likely will take time for the court to be assured there is no basis in fact ("unsubstantiated").  Be prepared for the court to grant a temp order, perhaps limited in scope, while it does one or more of the following:  assigns professionals to investigate the matter... grant her additional time to remain in possession pending resolution of the case... who knows what else.

Is your lawyer capable of defending you in court?  Many lawyers are quite capable of filing forms and holding clients' hands but are less experienced in court.  You need the sort of attorney who can be not only capable but also proactive in court, as Eddy's Splitting handbook advises.  I'm assuming your lawyer can handle the upcoming hearing, which purpose is to allow you to respond (vigorously in a legal way) to her RO petition.

While there, I'm assuming your lawyer will make sure she is served the divorce papers or move-out papers if not yet served.

As a last reminder, beware of "plea deals".  Of course this probably is not a scenario where you will face someone demanding you settle with a "plea deal".  The point is you have to take extra caution, if a deal is made, that you are not painted bad with any of the terms of any settlement.  (And make sure that you are never required nor expected to have any personal contact with her..)  As I wrote above, odds are the court may set up a holding action with current status outlined in a TRO (temp RO) and scheduling a date to return in a few weeks.  She's desperate to delay removal so this extreme action is her overreaction.

[mrlala]

Thank you, I also think she wants to secure housing through this.

[livednlearned]

Bad update here: After we gave her the 3rd deadline to move out, she filed a RO against me with hearing on Monday. Wish me luck!

Ugh. I'm so sorry it's escalating to this.

Is she claiming that the repeated requests to move out are grounds for the RO?

[mrlala]

RO finally was terminated this week after 4 weeks due to COVID postponements. The hearing was extremely intense and went over 2 days.

She claimed heavy physical abuse and fear of her life. I am so glad the judge saw through that and I was so lucky to document so much during the marriage. The judge also realized that the RO was filed for her to stay in the house.

Now, we are filing for a motion to move out in the family court and I hope that this goes through rather quickly and that it does not make her even more mad!

I am now over 2 months living in hotels+airbnb.

DCF was at the RO hearing (as support for her) but now says they were "impartial" since the judge expressed concerns of her mental health+drug abuse and that she is the aggressor.

During the hearing my wife also said that the detectives are investigating her claims - I assume she filed a criminal complaint as well but have not heard anything.

[mart555]

The hearing was extremely intense and went over 2 days.
...
Now, we are filing for a motion to move out in the family court and I hope that this goes through rather quickly and that it does not make her even more mad!

Wow!  2 days of hearing?  That seems crazy.  How long would a trial be?  Are you stuck paying massive lawyers fees or it's cheaper where you are?  Here it gets crazy expensive fast when you are dealing with a BPD/NPF

As for "not making her mad", you must have realized by now what was said earlier: you cannot control her..  Protect yourself first.

[livednlearned]

She claimed heavy physical abuse and fear of her life. I am so glad the judge saw through that and I was so lucky to document so much during the marriage. The judge also realized that the RO was filed for her to stay in the house.

What a massive sigh of relief.

I would anticipate she'll double down now that it's harder to ignore she's losing 

How are you holding up? How are your kids doing?

[mrlala]

Kids and I are doing ok. I really try to take care of myself with a lot of sports etc. But a peaceful divorce is not possible here - that's for sure now.

She now texted my mother that she will never give up and will press charges for sexual assault, assault and battery, and (not kidding) attempted murder! My lawyer says don't worry... but that's easier said than done.

And yes, I have to pay mad lawyer fees but it was worth it so far. Friday is the family court hearing.

I do sometimes think that it wouldve been easier to stay with her hahaha 

[mart555]

She's likely heading towards the "extinction burst" so hang on..  Things should calm down a bit.  They will still not make sense, but it should be a bit calmer.   Until the next crisis..

Make sure that your mom keeps these texts.  These could possibly be considered as threats so you may be able to use them in court down the road. 

[Bobby Newport]

Thank you for sharing. I am experiencing the same issue. I want desperately for the sake of my children, in laws and friends to have a peaceful, mutually beneficial resolution.   I have tried to broach the subject numerous times (always at the response to her threats of divorce) but those "discussions" go nowhere.  Typically she explodes and accuses me of infidelity or even being gay! 


It seems to be a never ending cycle. I am literally at my wits end.  I was just struggling with this again this morning and was about to post about my conundrum until coming upon this post. 

Frankly, I don't know where to start...my attorney advised me not to leave the house under any circumstances.  My children are older (16 and 19).  But I am fearful she will keep pulling me back in as long as I'm am present in the house. 

[mrlala]

Yesterday my motion to vacate her from the house (title in my name) was granted. After 3 months staying away, I will be able to go back to the house next week. This is great news but I am not even that happy about it. Court stuff is so draining and I still feel bad for her! Unreal! And, I might still have to fight her criminal complaint.

[ForeverDad]

That's good news... but don't count your chickens before they hatch.  It's astounding the ways some people can subvert or delay orders.  Update us once next week comes around.

[mrlala]

She did delay the order But not for too long: my twins and I are back at the house and she and her son had to move out. This is very good.

But I was ordered to pay 10k to her for an attorney... money I don't even have because she was not honest on her financial statement (which hopefully we can prove soon).
And there is the criminal investigation for abuse against me. I am spending way too much thought on it preparing evidence from the last years and it's really stressful.

And, the house smells like her which makes me miss the good times..  until I watch the videos of her raging at me to level things out.

[mrlala]

Update: She went to court again for another Restraining Order hearing. So I am essentially waiting to get arrested based on her criminal complaint and have to go in again for the RO. Great.

[mrlala]

Oh and in family court she said she wants a "Fault Divorce" since I am at fault it didn't work out. I filed for a "No-Fault Divorce".

[mart555]

But I was ordered to pay 10k to her for an attorney... money I don't even have because she was not honest on her financial statement (which hopefully we can prove soon).

Huh? Isn't there some legal aid for those without funds?

Stay strong. It's far from finished. She'll need a break eventually.  Keep gathering evidence: record and document.  Eventually the legal system will stop believing her.  Don't give her a chance: if the RO says that she is not allowed to do this or that, file a report for everything that makes sense so that she is charged with a breach of conditions. That will help down the road.    FWIW, my ex breached her release conditions significantly on two days, spaced months apart.  The judge was pissed.  These charges are what is helping me get ahead with my case.   

She would not hesitate to throw you under the bus. 

[ForeverDad]

Update: She went to court again for another Restraining Order hearing. So I am essentially waiting to get arrested based on her criminal complaint and have to go in again for the RO. Great.

She would have to convince the court that her evidence is sufficient to require an arrest.  If you have not done anything criminal then an arrest is unlikely.  Not impossible, of course.  On a recent thread PearlsBefore remarked that people with BPD (pwBPD) are known to make emphatic false claims (perceptions as "facts") appear very believable and credible.

... the pwBPD is able to combine false facts with GENUINE emotion. They aren't doing pathetic crocodile tears on the stand, they REALLY genuinely "feel" like their mother died in the blitzkrieg even if they still live with their mother and she's sitting in the front row... but with a pwBPD the listener's every instinct tells them that the story must be true because she demonstrates such genuine emotion recounting it. Good luck.

However, if there is an arrest, you need solid legal representation.  You have a right to remain silent, especially while pondering answers vetted by your attorney.  And don't be fooled by plea deals that reduce the threatened punishment.  Plea deals are still an admission of Guilt of some sort.

[Goosey]

“A friend of mine told me some years ago with his divorce.   A lot of time and money spent trying to work things out peacefully

And lawyers have a professional obligation to try to mediate and keep things out of the court system

And that is appropriate for the majority of divorces. After some time passes, the parties “usually “get the emotions in check

But for someone with a disorder, that is not possible. Even if they wanted to “
  That’s my situation in a nutshell.
I am certainly able to get through the initial barrage of insults and accusations when I reach out to my separated wife but she just hangs up and nothing is accomplished.
It’s amazing how I can spend a miserable day ruminating on the end of my marriage and missing her but after a 12 second phone call consisting of a barrage of nonesensw I’m  just left shaking my head and wondering what the hell am I doing letting her live rent free in my head.

[Sluggo]

Mrlala,

My experience is that once papers are filed, things escalated almost immediately to levels I had not seen previously. 

Yes the emphatic emotion described earlier in thread was in full play...  I would quip sometimes to my lawyer or others that when she speaks with such emotion that I almost believe it.  My lawyer almost also believed her during the deposition.  I had to present my lawyer voice recordings of what really happened so lawyer would believe me.  I had to keep voice recordings so I knew I was not going crazy as xbpdwife was so believable. 

Sluggo

[mrlala]

Lucky me.. second RO was just denied. My lawyer thinks that this will never stop until she finds someone new to harass. She also had a letter from the police saying that there is an ongoing investigation and that they assume she was a victim of domestic violence.

Her claim this RO was that I was at a soccer game and stared her down. But I was there because my kids were playing - I didn't even see her one time. Second time, she was assembling a bunch of parents who all stared me down She says stuff like "He parks so prominently that I need to see his car"...

[mrlala]

Worst part is that I still think that she could change if she would get trauma help and addiction help and then the marriage could work out. Crazy me.

[mart555]

Worst part is that I still think that she could change if she would get trauma help and addiction help and then the marriage could work out. Crazy me.

That feeling will dissipate over time.  It's still a bit of "FOG" (fear, obligation, guilt).

[ForeverDad]

She is inexperienced in making believable allegations.  In the months before my separation and divorce, my then-spouse threatened she'd disappear with my preschooler and I'd never see him again.  Once we separated and it rose to a legal level with police and courts, she started filing allegations.  The first was that I abused our preschooler months before - how? - when I took him to the park and when stopped he tipped his bike, not even a scratch.

Of course it was dismissed.  However, she kept inventing more allegations, even after our final decree.  The problem was that over time she learned how to make less frivolous claims.

That's my concern here, you're at real risk of facing more allegations, and worse, "less ridiculous" allegations.  So be aware, beware.

[MeandThee29]

Worst part is that I still think that she could change if she would get trauma help and addiction help and then the marriage could work out. Crazy me.

I had the same crazy idea during the divorce. Maybe he would finally get help and call it off (he initiated it, I went along with it). Even his attorney was begging and pleading with him to get professional help and was telling my attorney that he feared for his client's well-being. I thought if his attorney was even more convincing than anyone else...?

Nope. It got far worse as time went on even into closeout. By the time I closed my file with my attorney, I truly felt sorry for him. All that money and effort trying to destroy someone who had truly tried to understand him, and what he got was an ex and adult children who want nothing to do with him. Decades of his life thrown away. Of course I wasn't a perfect spouse, but I hung in there for a long time trying to make the impossible work. I was the one who went to therapy to try to understand, the one who kept coming back after more discards than I can count.

I had some really difficult years there, but life on the other side is so very much better. None of the people close to me engage in drama and manipulation, period. I have a few folks that I keep at arm's length for various reasons, but I choose who is close and who is not, PERIOD.

[mrlala]

I received an anonymous message yesterday (similar to a few months ago during her temporary RO) with a street corner and a time. This time, I drove by and saw her but did not stop. She clearly saw me, texted me more, and then came by my house.

1 week ago she was in court trying to get a RO because she is afraid for her life (it was denied) and now she does that. Today is our proposal anniversary so this might be a reason. She appeared very confident and I am surprised she came by since based on my motion-to-vacate in family court this is a criminal offense. And she still has this ongoing criminal investigation against me..

BUT It was super hard for me to not engage or interact and I just left. Have tons of videos of her coming by.

[mrlala]

She came by today again, I did not even realize it until after. She texted a lot of things, it seems like closure almost. Wow. I still feel awful and at her mercy. She comes by when she wants, she claims to be afraid when she wants...