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Author Topic: Do they ever have regrets?  (Read 5656 times)
JRT
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« on: February 18, 2015, 09:01:39 PM »

Has anyone's ex communicated sincere regrets for the actions both for their conduct during the r/s and relating to how they broke up?
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Heldfast
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 09:02:54 PM »

Soon, that's a tall order... .mine certainly hasn't yet. But she refuses to accept diagnosis or seek treatment.
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 09:10:49 PM »

He is not my ex (yet) but my dBPDh has admitted regretting he wasn't in a better place at the start of our relationship and that he didn't handle things in a healthy way. However, he still puts an equal amount of responsibility on me. Unfortunately, I think I would have handled some things a lot better if I hadn't been being emotionally abused while also dealing with really traumatic events, unrelated to our relationship. So, it's sort of yes but not in a way that feels like enough to me, I guess. And I struggle with my expectation on this a lot. (H is in therapy and group DBT, so not the worst case scenario).
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paperlung
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 09:16:30 PM »

Mine did. I left her in March 2013 and went NC. 4 months later after things with my replacement fell apart, she sent me this very sincere apology on Facebook. We weren't FB friends, but I forgot to disable the "Send Message" button. Here is what she wrote. I remember crying while reading it. It gave me some closure.

Excerpt
This may come as a bit of an unwanted, and I wouldn't even say surprise because I am sure you have moved on, but this message has nothing really to do with getting back into contact with you. I saw a picture of you in one of my old facebook photo albums and felt a bit compelled to write to you an overdue apology letter since i've grown quite a bit since what happened with us. I truly hope everything is going well with you and i'm sure it is especially since we parted ways. I had called quite some time ago and spoke with your mother and told her i was indeed diagnosed with Borderline Personality disorder. I'm not sure she spoke to you about it, but i have a feeling she did. I feel like you've grown confidence since we parted ways because i tore you down and exhausted you when all you ever did was try your best to support and protect me. Sometimes I still cry to this day about what I did to you and i'm not sure when i'll ever accept it. Maybe never. I cannot take back what I did to you but I can write a sincere apology from my heart. I do not expect a reply paperlung. and if you feel the need to block this account too then that is ok. I am no longer in the camming industry and have a normal job as a housekeeper full time and volunteering at a farm I am no longer in (the place we both lived). I remember blaming you for not intervening when things started to get out of control with my job... . which was irresponsible of me, but at the time, I couldn't take responsibility for my own horrible actions. Maybe i'm more sentimental about these type of things than some people but I was your first girlfriend, the first girl you really gave your heart to, and I ruined you. I really feel you must be in a good place now and I hope your doing well in your school program and jake (my dog) is happy and healthy as well as the rest of your family. judging from your picture you look healthy and happy. You never deserved the pain I caused you paperlung. and I hope maybe you've found a girl that treats you right and I don't have any doubts you'd make her happy right back. Thanks for being there for me in one of the roughest times in my life and forgiving me when you shouldn't have. Thank you for the wonderful memories and your love.

Warm regards, ex.

I didn't start talking to my ex again until a year later, so March 2014. It was LC, but I remember her saying to me in September 2014 how she regretted what she did to me and that I was great, supportive boyfriend who just wanted the best for her and she just went and messed it all up.
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 09:35:37 PM »

paperlung: WOW... .For you to receive such a sincere apology from your BPD ex is absolutely astounding!  This does not appear to be the norm for most BPD people.  I'm curious, how did you and your ex reconnect again one year later?  
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going places
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 09:47:17 PM »

Has anyone's ex communicated sincere regrets for the actions both for their conduct during the r/s and relating to how they broke up?

Key word: Sincere.

The answer?

No.

He blew off at the mouth a lot. He 'said all the right things' (so people would say; awwww look he's sorry).

Unfortunately, actions speak infinitely louder than words.

He was sorry he was caught.

He was sorry he dropped his mask.

But genuine remorse, repentance, etc?

No, he is incapable.
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 09:59:56 PM »

Yes they have regrets, but only when they're feeling lonely, nobody available to feed their attention, or when the replacement has discarded them. Mine told me so many times when she wanted to recycle me, how great I was to her and how bad she treated me. How I was the only one for her, how sorry she was, how she put me through so much, how she loves me unlike anyone, etc. It's real feelings to them... .for the moment. It sux, eventually you learn to see through the bs
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 10:04:10 PM »

paperlung: WOW... .For you to receive such a sincere apology from your BPD ex is absolutely astounding!  This does not appear to be the norm for most BPD people.  I'm curious, how did you and your ex reconnect again one year later?  

BPD ex... .She doesn't even think she is BPD anymore as she was never officially diagnosed by a physicist. That doesn't matter to me, though. I know what she's like.

It was either near the very end of February 2014 or beginning of March 2014 that she tried adding me as a friend on Facebook. I declined. A few days later I decided to just send her an email because I had this strong suspicion that she wasn't doing well, which turned out to be true. I just said hello and told her I had no hard feelings for what she did to me. We exchanged a few emails that night and then I didn't hear from her again until June 2014. She emailed me to say hello and ask how I was doing. We exchanged a couple of messages and then she asked for my number so that we could text instead. I gave it to her and we spent at least and hour or so texting back and forth. At one point, near the end of the conversation, I asked her, "So what made you want to contact me tonight?" And she said something a long the lines of, "I guess I just missed you. I probably shouldn't have. I don't know. Or maybe I do but just don't want to admit why." I didn't bother dig deeper into that, though.

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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 10:22:15 PM »

paperlung: Thanks for sharing.  Maybe a physicist would have a better chance of diagnosing her as BPD than a psychologist.  It's interesting the time intervals between her connecting with you and her response to you asking her what made her want to contact you.  Did it then just end after this?
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 10:32:49 PM »

Based  on my experience with my exwifeBPD - I do not think they ever have regrets because they are always the victims. They may fake sorrow but I do not believe it is sincere.
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 10:35:05 PM »

You'll get an apology when they are seeking something from you.  This is a disorder of attachment.  They'll do whatever they need to attach.  If the perception is that you've been wronged or you left in anger, you'll get something approximating an apology.

It won't be the make amends kind of apology.  This is not about getting anything off their chest.  This is about getting something from you.  Having been a recipient of a number of apologies from her, it was nice to hear in the moment.  Like everything with her, though, it never lasted.  
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 10:54:16 PM »

paperlung: Thanks for sharing.  Maybe a physicist would have a better chance of diagnosing her as BPD than a psychologist.  It's interesting the time intervals between her connecting with you and her response to you asking her what made her want to contact you.  Did it then just end after this?

No. She sent me another text in September 2014 after she broke up with her boyfriend. I can't remember how the conversation went, but I know she wasn't doing well. She then sent me another hello text in October, which ended up being a very nostalgic conversation on her behalf about our relationship and her regrets. The next day she sent me a text of this giant bruise on her arm and then she wrote, "Oh ___, sorry wrong person." I asked her what happened and she said she and her "friend" were play wrestling. She later admitted to me it was basically a cry for help.  She also sent me another text in October wishing me a happy birthday. Her birthday is one day after mine, so I wished her one back the next day.

Then, ___ hit the fan early in November. She sent me a text one morning telling me how her new BF of one month she met off Tinder aka the "friend" cheated on her and pushed her against the fridge and knocked the wind out of her. She was freaking out, told me she wanted to move back home (where I live) but didn't know how to go about it.

She eventually found a way back home on November 29th. We got together three times over the span of December 2014-Februrary 2015. As of the 15th of this month though, I am no longer speaking to her. A lot happened once she moved back that I did not approve of.

If you're interested in knowing more, I can direct you to my previous threads which explain pretty much everything from the time she moved back here to the time I stopped talking to her again.

Right now I'm trying to deattach from her again.
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 10:58:27 PM »

Nope, my exBPDh can never feel regret at the horrible things he did and said. He honestly believes that his behavior was justified because he has a seriously twisted mind.

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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 11:04:31 PM »

paperlung: I was hoping for a happier ending than the sad saga you lived out.  Detaching from her sounds like a healing place for you now.  I am interested in knowing more from your previous threads.
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 11:17:02 PM »

My exBPDbf has expressed some regret/remorse since the breakup, but overall he honestly appears to be of the impression that I shouldn't have been as hurt or devastated as I was.

During the relationship, he would have sad lucid phases where he expressed a lot of regret and remorse about past relationships not working out (not just romantic relationships), and he would heap blame on himself ("I always do this! I always push away the people I care about!"... .but he would never address much bad behavior on his part. Even his more egregious missteps (sleeping with his wife's sister, for instance) were explained away - he was coked up, the sister was basically forcing herself on him, etc.

This pattern persisted with me. He would apologize and express remorse over some things he did, but he usually tried to shift the blame onto me.

A good example is our first fight, the first time I ever saw his rage. He had left his cell phone charging at the hotel bar while we had a drink and then went outside to smoke. When we came back in, I wanted to go on up to the room while he went back and grabbed his cell phone. He seemed fine with it. When he came back, he told me the pretty young bartender had given him her number. I wasn't upset - hell, I liked the girl - but I did say that was kind of shady of her, since she knew we were together.

Well, all of a sudden the world as I knew it ended. My ex flew into a rage - screaming at me for not accompanying him to the bar to get his phone! I felt like my mind had snapped, because I couldn't rationally process what was going on. The directions his mind was going in - the way he was suddenly acting towards me. It all was so out of proportion, and the more I tried to calm the situation down, the worse he got. I tried to leave the room, and he blocked and grabbed me. It was a long, rough night.

He never apologized for that. He apologized for saying and doing a few specific things that were very hurtful, but that incident remains firmly in his mind as something that was completely my fault.

That's part of what made it so difficult for me... .I kept feeling like I had failed... .and I wanted to do everything I could to overcome that. I myself am known for over-apologizing (my exBPDbf even chided me for apologizing too much, and then of course I would apologize for apologizing too much), and was more than willing to take on the burden and blame. I think that's probably the case for some of us here - that the blame-shifting and the lack of sincere apologies kept us "working."
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 11:32:29 PM »

My ex put me through the worst hell of my life, beggining an affair with my replacement, then promising to stop, then continuing the affair, promising to stop again, etc., this went on  for five weeks or so before I read messages on her cell phone that indicated they were still seeing each other. When I confronted her and asked her if she was with him or me, she answered, without hesitation, him. She was an addict in recovery when we met, a quiet waif, and while there was some BPD drama, our year-and-a-half long relationship was mostly good.

The first time she and her "friend," a married, former college instructor, got together outside  of class, they began using drugs together. Within a week or so, she was using daily.

I was so shocked by her behavior that I contacted her several times over the next two months, trying to figure out what happened. Of course she told me that she still loved me, missed me, was her best friend, may have made a mistake, etc. After all the push-pull, confusion, and insanity, I went no contact last september. Blocked her everywhere.

In December, I recieved the message below, on the same dating site where we met (she deactivated the account right after sending her message). --

-------------

So. I have been wanting to contact you for some time, but have been hesitant because I don't want to cause you any more torment. I think of you often - everyday, in fact. What I did to you has added to my darkness and I carry it with me everywhere. Which I deserve. I accept that. I cannot fathom how I could ever be so cold to anyone, not even a stranger, let alone someone I loved. I want to apologize for everything. I recently found out that my old boyfriend J---- died from an overdose and it really got me thinking about the people I've known and the things that I've done. But most of all I thought of you. You are still so precious to me and I don't know what I'd do if anything ever happened to you. It's not just my guilt or my conscience, it's something much deeper than that. I wish I'd treated you differently and I'm sorry for leaving you alone when you needed me most. I am haunted by it. Make of it what you will, I don't care if you think badly of me. I was bad and I am so, so sorry for the pain I have caused you.

-----------

Her appology made me feel worse, because I doubt its' sincerity. She became such an unreliable person. And her words--promises of love, contrition, and fidelity--were completely false as our relationship unravelled. Worse, after the relationship ended, she cruelly rubbed the replacement in my face, told me that holding onto relationships was "unhealthy," advised me to study buddhism, "take good care" of myself, and other platitudes. Never took any ownership for lying, cheating, breaking promises, or leading me on.

I never replied, although I was and am tempted to. If I knew she were sober, I might, but her behavior was so terrible that I doubt it.




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Turkish
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 11:35:42 PM »

Has anyone's ex communicated sincere regrets for the actions both for their conduct during the r/s and relating to how they broke up?

Yes. During the time she was still living with me, cheating, and denying it. We were technically broken up, but she, me and the kids lived together for 4 months. She still kept in contact with the guy, saying they were just friends (inappropriate even if true). Then I "mistakenly" got a text one night while I was at her parents' house with the kids and she was at the gym, "Hey Love, I'm here, where are you?"

I let that one slide for a few days, until we were sitting down to dinner with the kids. He called and I saw his name on her phone. I said, "really?" She rejected the call. We ate in silence. I dismissed then S3 and D1 into the living room. She started crying, "what do you want me to say, that I'm sorry?"  I said a bunch of stuff, no yelling or anything, I think S3 may have come back in for a bit, but then left. I called them both morally bankrupt and zero commitment people. She said, "I know I'm 'sick'." (!) I never called her that. She was talking about something other than her diagnosed depression.

It changed nothing. Over the next 3 months, I practically begged her to leave on several occasions. It was the hardest emotional stress of my life, including growing up with BPD mom and being homeless at times, and other wacky adventures, including being forced into therapy at 13. That was a year ago last fall and winter.

Last month, she was at my church (she brings the kids for Sunday school on her weekends), the sermon was on Biblical marriage. I was glad we weren't sitting together when I realized what the pastor was talking about. As I was helping loading the kids in the car, she stopped with her back to me and said, "I know now how much I did wrong." In a moment of weakness, or  you can interpret it in other ways, I out my hand on her shoulder, and she turned to hug me fiercly, saying, "I wish things could have been different!" Slightly crying. First hug in 16 months. Notice her lack of accountability in that statement, even though she took some accountability moments before.

I probably could have held her a while longer, but I let her go. Two hours later, I left her parents' house where we were (I really went to get free food  Smiling (click to insert in post) because I started getting angry when she was asking me in a way how to deal with the kids accepting her affair partner, now fiancée.

So yes, she still regrets, but it changes nothing. I'm as kind as I can be, but with boundaries, especially given that I have to co parent with her for the next 16 years. All in all, I think the thing she most regrets is losing me as a friend. I know she misses me in that manner. My T once defined a friend in these ways:

"A friend is someone to who me you take your heart out, present it to them and ask, what do you think,?"

"A friend is someone to whom you entrust the building of your character."

As she was detaching, I was told that "a woman of character deserves a man of character. In this, you failed." I didn't bother responding to that email.

So no, regret or not, she doesn't fit those definitions of a friend. It may change a little at some point down the years though.  I miss the idea of her more than her.

(Penumbra... .that is a bit how I caught my Ex still having an affair while saying she stopped it. After I caught her like you did---- just one telling message and a selfie that I saw, I finally called us done.)
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 11:42:50 PM »

paperlung: I was hoping for a happier ending than the sad saga you lived out.  Detaching from her sounds like a healing place for you now.  I am interested in knowing more from your previous threads.

No happy ending here, I'm afraid. I had this fantasy of her coming back, getting help, and us maybe trying to work things out later down the road. But it was just a fantasy.

Here are all of my relevant threads that take place from the time she moved back to the time I go NC again. I recommended reading all of my posts in every thread. I'd love you forever if you actually take the time to read everything, haha. It's a nice feeling, knowing somebody cares. Smiling (click to insert in post)

The Return of the Ex: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238196.0

The Feels: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240025.0

The No Shocker: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240330.0

The Ex's Rage: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240742.0

The Return of the Ex (Part Deux): https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270481.0

The Manipulator: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271258.0

The End: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271580.0
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2015, 12:31:41 AM »

Turkish,

No one should have to go through what you did. It makes me feel grateful that my screwed up expbd fiancé was no quite as bad! if you get what I mean. The constant disappointment, the lack of trust, the selfish way she acted and her cruel words. How do these people survive in this world running around finding good people to manipulate and hurt?

Paperlung, dump her immediately end this nightmare of abuse. She is so crazy and such a user. Dig deep, find your self esteem and consider her a sick woman that will NEVER fulfill your needs. I know easier said than done but really? After reading much of what you have presented on this board I must say. Life is short. It is better to be alone than to continue to try and figure out/and or help this woman. Only a dedicated professional can rescue her. You have tried, it did not work go N/C and work on yourself.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2015, 01:53:54 AM »

Paperlung, dump her immediately end this nightmare of abuse. She is so crazy and such a user. Dig deep, find your self esteem and consider her a sick woman that will NEVER fulfill your needs. I know easier said than done but really? After reading much of what you have presented on this board I must say. Life is short. It is better to be alone than to continue to try and figure out/and or help this woman. Only a dedicated professional can rescue her. You have tried, it did not work go N/C and work on yourself.

If by dump, you mean just go NC,  then I'm already ahead of you, downwhim! Have been since the 15th after she told me she was moving out of her dad's place when just a couple weeks prior to that she said this to me:

Excerpt
I became very aware that I would not sustain a healthy functioning relationship like this, a job, or living alone. I had thoughts of moving out of my dad's place because I hate living here but I needed to think in the bigger grand scheme of things in my life. I am incapable of taking care of myself right now and the last thing I need to do is put myself in a position where I've been for the last two years. The last months in X (where she was before she moved back home) really changed me. And I apologize for acting like everything was fine when I spoke with you about it all before.

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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 03:06:07 AM »

Has anyone's ex communicated sincere regrets for the actions both for their conduct during the r/s and relating to how they broke up?

Never.

That could never happen, because you see... .everything was my fault. She has nothing to regret.  

If you are a victim of all your actions and a victim of all the consequences of your actions, regret is a phenomenon that does not enter into your sphere of reality.
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 07:41:49 AM »

Nah, I was replaced a week later, probably before that. Im dead to her. Its been 6 months now and I havent seen or heard from her at all, except for a text beat down because I wished her happiness after seeing a pic of her and the new guy about 2 months ago. Why would she apologize? It was all my fault. Just ask her.
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 08:58:55 AM »

Paperlung,

Good, stay N/C. It is all so downhill with her.
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 12:01:12 PM »

paperlung: Thank you for providing your relevant threads.  It is an intense saga, to say the least.  Like many of us, there could be some good movie material in it all.  Your relationship story expands over about 3.5 years in length.  What a horrible first girlfriend experience you had.  It is apparent that she has many deep rooted issues from her past requiring much healing.  Fortunately, you are young and have better choices out there for women than what you experienced with this one.  Besides my caring, this site is chocked full of people who care.  I know, because many have and continue to help me wade through the gunk of this BPD.  It is a journey... .
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 12:24:17 PM »

I know for sure that she had some regrets. I think she was more of a BPD who was affected inwardly rather than outwardly. She completely and outright froze up and ignored me when I asked her why she never told me that she had got back with her ex, and claimed that she was mostly confused about everything. I think she felt that she could have us both, and when I expressed my concern about things, she went into a coping mechanism where she gave me the silent treatment, and that ended up devaluing me in the process. I don't think she did this *intentionally.* I think she had a huge fear of abandonment, and felt that she needed her ex. Unfortunately, during the time she wasn't with him, I came into the picture, and she latched on to me as well, making her all the more confused. Because she was naturally impulsive, she let him back in her life while she was talking to me, and while she wanted to keep talking to me, she wanted to be with him more than anything. I think she did feel regret/shame, which is why her coping mechanism made her devalue me so that she could feel better about herself. When I finally decided to leave for good after a few recycles, I think she realized she was really losing me and felt a lot of regret. But with her being with the other guy/her ex, I don't think that regret will last all that long. It'll only really hit her once they break-up and she realizes that she's alone. Whether or not she tries recycling with me or him in the future, or tries to latch on to someone new? I don't know.

All I know is, while I could see the good in her, I think she was probably the most confused and conflicted woman I've ever known. I truly wish for her to one day find happiness, but I left because I needed to find my own happiness/freedom. I wasn't happy, and I could tell through her actions that she had a very tough time opening up and letting people help her get through her depressions and turmoil. It's just an unfortunate situation all around, but I had to do what I felt was right.

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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 07:25:05 PM »

Paperlung,

Good, stay N/C. It is all so downhill with her.

It really is, unfortunately.


paperlung: Thank you for providing your relevant threads.  It is an intense saga, to say the least.  Like many of us, there could be some good movie material in it all.  Your relationship story expands over about 3.5 years in length.  What a horrible first girlfriend experience you had.  It is apparent that she has many deep rooted issues from her past requiring much healing.  Fortunately, you are young and have better choices out there for women than what you experienced with this one.  Besides my caring, this site is chocked full of people who care.  I know, because many have and continue to help me wade through the gunk of this BPD.  It is a journey... .

Yeah, it sucks that my first girlfriend experience had to be such a bad one. I learned a lot from it though, like what I don't want in a girlfriend. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Her issues run very, very deep, and it all goes back to her crummy childhood. She had me convinced before moving back here that she was finally going to take her mental health seriously and stop running away, but once she did move back, all she did was deny anything was wrong with her and just messed around on POF and Tinder.

Now she's running off again to go live downtown by herself because everyone she knows lives there, which is a load of BS. Before moving back here, the only people she talked to was me and one of her older ex-boyfriends. All of these new "friends" that she knows are just men off either POF or Tinder. They aren't real friends. None of them have any sort of long-term friendship with her. They are all just guys who want to date/have sex with her. And if she were to get into a relationship with one of them, all of the others would disappear because she'd be exclusive.

 
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2015, 08:06:46 PM »

I am not sure if this counts as regret but more than likely it is just manipulation. My exgf text me yesterday saying how she missed me and that something always brings her back to me. She is saying all this while she is still with my replacement by the way. She asked why I decided to sign a lease at an apartment after our break up and one of the reasons I gave her was that i had a feeling that my replacement was already in the picture.

I received a text from her this morning saying that I was right about her. That she was causing me pain and that she was no good for me. She said that I was right about her and her problem with men. She admitted to cheating and then she said that she hoped I would find a good woman.

I did not respond. I did not know what to do with this. Parts of it feels like she continues the same cycle of giving hope and then taking it away just like she did with her love.

Maybe she said all this to make her feel better about being with my replacement or moving on. I dont know, but i wish it wouldn't have affected me. It left me in pain most of the day.
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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2015, 08:29:09 PM »

Soon, that's a tall order... .mine certainly hasn't yet. But she refuses to accept diagnosis or seek treatment.

"ditto"  wont happen. she told somebody else that: " i wouldnt let her in" on the contrary, i let her too far in for far too long. lesson learned. i shudder to think what might have happened if i had let her in (married her). 











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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2015, 09:02:46 PM »

paperlung: Based on what you have presented you sound better off without her as a toxic load in your life.  She needs healing before she could ever contribute to being a healthy partner in a healthy relationship.
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2015, 09:34:59 PM »

Mine often asked me " do you think "his ex wife" would ever sit there and think "wow I lost a good man and i regret it"? I told him no. She is not only A self involved horrible person who takes no personal responsibility but she is also seriously stupid. (She really is on all counts.)  Now I sit here wondering if he will ever think those things about me.   Weird how things come full circle.
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 10:16:21 PM »

Mine often asked me " do you think "his ex wife" would ever sit there and think "wow I lost a good man and i regret it"? I told him no. She is not only A self involved horrible person who takes no personal responsibility but she is also seriously stupid. (She really is on all counts.)  Now I sit here wondering if he will ever think those things about me.   Weird how things come full circle.

They may have regrets but it's not in the same capacity that we feel this emotion. We are objects. We are washing machines. When we are first brought home we are new. We are a mystery. Then they figure out which buttons to press to make us work for them. When we work for them properly they walk away as we churn. They come back every so often and take the things we offer them, and then walk away again. When we break, we are useless. We are no longer helping them. They try to press a different set of buttons to make us go back online but when we refuse they put us out by the road and walk away. You wouldn't stop before going back inside and say "Hey washer, I know you did your best. You helped me with so many loads of laundry. You always kept me looking good for work or for whatever social functions I had to go to. I know you tried hard and I wish you the best." No, you toss the broken "useless" worthless piece of crap outside and wash your hands of it. From your perspective there is no debt you feel that it did a million loads of laundry, all you can think of is how you are inconvenienced now that it's broken and how much you wish you wouldn't have invested so much when you first bought it. So you go to the store and buy another one and never look back one time or wonder what scrap yard it ended up in.

Why? Because it's an object. And that is exactly what we are to them. Is it any wonder the relationship goes exactly in this manor?

So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand.
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 10:41:31 PM »

anxiety5: Very well expressed word picture you write of what this BPD is all about involving us as mere objects... .or washing machines.  Thank you for sharing.
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 10:47:28 PM »

Mine often asked me " do you think "his ex wife" would ever sit there and think "wow I lost a good man and i regret it"? I told him no. She is not only A self involved horrible person who takes no personal responsibility but she is also seriously stupid. (She really is on all counts.)  Now I sit here wondering if he will ever think those things about me.   Weird how things come full circle.

They may have regrets but it's not in the same capacity that we feel this emotion. We are objects. We are washing machines. When we are first brought home we are new. We are a mystery. Then they figure out which buttons to press to make us work for them. When we work for them properly they walk away as we churn. They come back every so often and take the things we offer them, and then walk away again. When we break, we are useless. We are no longer helping them. They try to press a different set of buttons to make us go back online but when we refuse they put us out by the road and walk away. You wouldn't stop before going back inside and say "Hey washer, I know you did your best. You helped me with so many loads of laundry. You always kept me looking good for work or for whatever social functions I had to go to. I know you tried hard and I wish you the best." No, you toss the broken "useless" worthless piece of crap outside and wash your hands of it. From your perspective there is no debt you feel that it did a million loads of laundry, all you can think of is how you are inconvenienced now that it's broken and how much you wish you wouldn't have invested so much when you first bought it. So you go to the store and buy another one and never look back one time or wonder what scrap yard it ended up in.

Why? Because it's an object. And that is exactly what we are to them. Is it any wonder the relationship goes exactly in this manor?

So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand.

  great analogy. nuff said!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2015, 11:24:02 PM »

paperlung: Based on what you have presented you sound better off without her as a toxic load in your life.  She needs healing before she could ever contribute to being a healthy partner in a healthy relationship.

I know, which is why I haven't talked to her since the 15th. I'm not sticking around to be her confidant. It just stresses me out and brings me anxiety.

She hasn't been a healthy partner to anybody before or after me. I thought her healing was about to begin once she wrote me that very self-aware text message at the beginning of February. I should have known better than to believe her.
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« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2015, 11:27:16 PM »

paperlung: You sound like you are on the right track to freedom now.
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« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2015, 12:02:13 AM »

From my own experience, yes they will and say they regretted it, not all the time but sometimes. The tears will flow, apologies and promises to not do it again etc. Unfortunately if doesn't last. I've had a 360 face turn, after an episode in the night, immediately the next morning. I've given up trying to rationalize or sympathize. It's the way it is, they get something out of it. When a person is feeling so low and empty, anger and hate is still an acceptable form of expression and way to get attention, whether good or bad.
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« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2015, 02:48:40 AM »

Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine, so that she did not have to have a lapse in her ability to put her clothes thru the wringer.,(anything but a lapse!... then she would be by herself. Never.). Once she had thuroughly tested out the new model she had it delivered and had the guys put the old model out on the curb. I can see her extending her arms and swiping her hands together as if to say "I've cleaned myself of that old model. Good riddance!"

 :'(
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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2015, 06:53:35 AM »

Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine, so that she did not have to have a lapse in her ability to put her clothes thru the wringer.,(anything but a lapse!... then she would be by herself. Never.). Once she had thuroughly tested out the new model she had it delivered and had the guys put the old model out on the curb. I can see her extending her arms and swiping her hands together as if to say "I've cleaned myself of that old model. Good riddance!"

 :'(

true infrared... .but at the same time, not to wear out the washer analogy, you could say as you were being carried to the curb, i'll never be "overloaded" or feel "out of balance" again! "free to good home"   Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 08:31:16 AM »

Turkish, my experience after 22years being married to a BPD wife has similarities to the story you shared. We have been living apart for over a year now and I am just waiting on the $ to get the divorce. She started an affair with a man about a year before she left. I dont expect an apology or any words of regret. After so many years of everything being my fault, it is not reasonable to expect her to take a look at herself.

    She has hoarding issues. The hoarding shows you see on tv is like a 10. She was at a 7. We have 3 kids - 2 minors. As soon as she left she began hoarding in her new house and I cleaned the one we had. For the first time in 22 years our house was picked up and clean. When the kids come over they say my BPD wife blames ME for the mess in her new house because I made sure to give her back her things.

    In my experience the BPD is the ultimate validation seeker. Her self worth is at stake in every social encounter. She is the victim. She may have regrets because she is suffering, but that suffering does not bring her an apology, rather it intensifies her own thoughts that she should have left me sooner.

    This also gives a strange understanding to a practice we had before Church. For more than 10 years we would apologize to each other and ask forgiveness of one another before Church. I began to realize what this meant for her: it was an opportunity to address all my failures to her while denying her own part to play in anything awry. So I started this forgiveness the night before- it would take all night with no progress. I finally came to terms with it: I would forgive her bc she asked forgiveness (WHATEVER that means to her) and I would ask her forgiveness bc i needed to and I needed her to know I was sorry for specific things. Normal conversation on forgiveness and relationship progression is impossible with a BPD. They have a mental illness and cant comprehend what the conversation is. They fundamentally cant grasp what "I am sorry" means. My BPD wife thinks it means that she is sorry that you suffered. Kind of like when your kid falls and hurts his knee and you tell him "I am sorry that happened to you." THAT is how she understands HER "I'm sorry." YOUR "I'm sorry" however means you accept full responsibility and blame for everything you have done by which she has suffered emotionally. And now she can remind you of what all those things were.

   I would not recommend waiting for an apology from a BPD.
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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 09:30:37 AM »

My exBPDwife of 11 years still blames me for all the problems we had. I did not show her enough attention so she started an affair with my replacement 6 months before I filed for divorce. I did not make enough money is the reason her spending seemed excessive. It was my fault that she kicked in the bedroom door and assaulted me while I was sleeping.

EVERYTHING is my fault because I am such a horrible person.

She should be given a medal for putting up with me for so long.

I do not believe it is possible for her to accept responsibility for any of her actions or to express regret in the way a healthy person does.
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« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2015, 09:58:42 PM »

From my own experience, yes they will and say they regretted it, not all the time but sometimes. The tears will flow, apologies and promises to not do it again etc. Unfortunately if doesn't last. I've had a 360 face turn, after an episode in the night, immediately the next morning. I've given up trying to rationalize or sympathize. It's the way it is, they get something out of it. When a person is feeling so low and empty, anger and hate is still an acceptable form of expression and way to get attention, whether good or bad.

My uBPDexgf, even if she wanted, could not consistently respect my boundaries or feelings.  The reason is that she is "not good at application questions", which she admitted even of her own schooling in her vocation.  When she did something to upset me, she might have added it to a list of things not to do, but did not understand the underlying commonality or what general class of things to avoid.  It is like someone tracking mud in your house, being told not to do that, but then wondering why you are upset the next day when they track in oil.  They do not understand the underlying idea of "don't put things on my carpet that will damage it".  So, mine has this list of things not to do, but she could not keep all these in her head or follow them.  She did not understand the thought process that had generated the list and so she had no predictive ability.
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« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2015, 01:57:28 AM »



"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.
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« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2015, 01:57:43 PM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

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« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2015, 02:24:27 PM »

Yes, my hopes and dreams and plans for the future where puffed away by his selfish, egotistical, ways and his mental illness. There is no excuse for the terrible amount of pain he caused me. I remember one day he was screaming at me for no reason in the car. If I could have jumped out I would have yet I was the driver. After 20 minutes of a rage and me trying all I could to hold on to the wheel and drive correctly, I dropped him off at his house. He turned and said, "I will not say I am sorry." Yes, no regrets.

He took away (or I allowed him) my self confidence, my creativity, my sexuality, my positive attitude about life, my management of time, my friends, my children and my soul. It is my job to get all of this back little by little until I feel whole again. I lost the person I was. The smile that was sincere. Many days I feel like only a part of myself is here and the res,t he joyfully stomped on as he added me to the list of another one his accomplishments. Done, moved on, no regrets.
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« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2015, 02:42:26 PM »

Well apparently so, my ex has told me recently that her life is empty without me and she wishes things could be how they were before... strange to have made no effort to contact me for months in that case and she ended the conversation telling me I deserved better. *charm* But never a truer word spoken.

Pffft, I don't believe they do regret it no, regret the loss of supply perhaps.
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« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2015, 03:51:37 PM »

Trog, why not put it to the test? Actions,not words.

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« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2015, 03:55:56 PM »

Trog, why not put it to the test? Actions,not words.

Put which bit the test? The deserving better bit? I intend to.

I know her words are only words. If she truly felt that way she has had months to make an effort to save our marriage and even now this sentence is all i've heard from her. She's obv quite content to go on with her "meaningless and empty" life without me!

Puke
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« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2015, 04:23:25 PM »

Trog, why not put it to the test? Actions,not words.

Put which bit the test? The deserving better bit? I intend to.

I know her words are only words. If she truly felt that way she has had months to make an effort to save our marriage and even now this sentence is all i've heard from her. She's obv quite content to go on with her "meaningless and empty" life without me!

Puke

My ex agreed that our relationship was one way, that it didn't have much reciprocity that it was all about her wants and needs and that she is controlling despite admitting that I was dependable and trustworthy (in other words there is no reason she should be controlling about me)

Furthermore, the solutions I presented in such a soft benign way, I validated her position, I tried bringing things up 100 times, dozens of different ways. She agreed with the things I'd say yet in the end she couldn't agree to change. She couldn't agree to even try things a different way. Nothing. It was essentially, knowing she can be abusive and me having to deal with it.

So after I broke things off, she starts checking in with me despite me asking for space. "Hope you are ok"

YOU DON'T HOPE IM OK. If you hoped I was ok, if you cared, if you gave a crap, if you really missed me you wouldn't be a totalitarian control freak who refuses to submit to anything other than your ways (which you admit to being flawed and failing in previous relationships)

Don't fall for ANY of their nonsense. They are like a sales rep who doesn't take the time on a customer anymore because he's trying to find new business. But they will still check in from time to time to ensure they still own the account.  It's hollow and empty and it's contradictory.

When I pointed all this out, she ran for cold shoulder mountain as fast as she could. I had pointed out all her hypocrisy, contradiction, and she was left with nothing to say. Rather than admit to her flawed nonsensical and irrational logic, she just went silent hoping to shun me into submission and dropping things.

Instead I dropped her.
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« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2015, 04:29:39 PM »

":)on't fall for ANY of their nonsense. They are like a sales rep who doesn't take the time on a customer anymore because he's trying to find new business. But they will still check in from time to time to ensure they still own the account.  It's hollow and empty and it's contradictory. "

Perfect analogy.
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« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2015, 11:06:35 PM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

Anxiety5,

I can't thank you enough for this post.

even though my r/s has been over since 8/14, I've not been able to let completely go of the

" what if I would have only done more?"  tortured thoughts.

Reading your insightful post has been a lightbulb moment for me.

I DO believe in my values. I KNOW what in me was squashed to bits.

I also know it will NEVER happen again. I am me and that is a good thing.

Thank you , thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
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« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2015, 05:24:30 AM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

This is a fantastic, well-worded description of exactly what I went through. My expwBPD is totally unaccountable for any of her actions and mine most assuredly has no regret. I was not only "to blame" I was even responsible for her cheating on me? What balanced adult can actually even make that statement?

I was codependent and I do have good values and I was trusting and faithful and honest. I was drawn in by the manipulative love bombing. I sought to have adult conversations about the truth and the cheating., to care and have understanding. I got derision and lies. She ran off... .but she did not stop contacting me. ... .just often enough to "keep the hook set"

I have gone absolute NC for me as I will not tolerate the endless crazy-making childish behavior that is cruel and so, so, so unpredictable to my rational mind. I have absolute No Contact because I will not tolerate being treated that way.

... .but I still have emotional pain and grief regarding all that I went through... .some kind of deep-seated emotional damage occurred to me as a result of the repeated vindictive cruelty.

It hangs with me still. I have this underlying disbelief that a person that I cared so deeply about could actually behave in the manner that she did/does ... .with no remorse or self examination... It is just not something that I wanted to learn existed in the world. I keep trying to reject the information that I experienced first-hand. I don't want to know that this exists in the world... .but of course, it does.
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« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2015, 07:12:20 PM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

This is a fantastic, well-worded description of exactly what I went through. My expwBPD is totally unaccountable for any of her actions and mine most assuredly has no regret. I was not only "to blame" I was even responsible for her cheating on me? What balanced adult can actually even make that statement?

I was codependent and I do have good values and I was trusting and faithful and honest. I was drawn in by the manipulative love bombing. I sought to have adult conversations about the truth and the cheating., to care and have understanding. I got derision and lies. She ran off... .but she did not stop contacting me. ... .just often enough to "keep the hook set"

I have gone absolute NC for me as I will not tolerate the endless crazy-making childish behavior that is cruel and so, so, so unpredictable to my rational mind. I have absolute No Contact because I will not tolerate being treated that way.

... .but I still have emotional pain and grief regarding all that I went through... .some kind of deep-seated emotional damage occurred to me as a result of the repeated vindictive cruelty.

It hangs with me still. I have this underlying disbelief that a person that I cared so deeply about could actually behave in the manner that she did/does ... .with no remorse or self examination... It is just not something that I wanted to learn existed in the world. I keep trying to reject the information that I experienced first-hand. I don't want to know that this exists in the world... .but of course, it does.

I was in a very similar place. I had two relationships in a row that turned out very similar. How could this happen again? How could I be so weak that I didn't leave when they cheated? Why do I believe their lies? What is wrong with me?

I've made this analogy before, but bear with me. If your brother or sister left their job, left their wife/husband, stopped paying their mortgage, hit their child, abandoned them too and ended up under a bridge where they committed suicide a year later. Each and every incident above, would be a tragedy that hurt you. How could they do this? How could they leave their family and disappoint everyone so badly? Suppose I insert that said person is a heroin addict. While it hurts no less, suddenly it's different. Suddenly there is a source and cause of all these behaviors. All of the destructive things mentioned above are exactly what addicts do. It still hurts you as their sibling to watch this destruction, but it's different. You have a source for it all. The wife/husband and the kids realize he/she didn't leave because they weren't good enough. He didn't abandon them because they weren't ok. In fact sadly, it was very impersonal. It actually had nothing to do with them. He is an addict. That's what addicts do. That is their pathology. And in the end they choose their addiction rather than anything else around them, and quite possibly die from it.

You need to apply this same scenario to your ex. You live in a World of logic. They live in a world of emotions. Not only this, but dysfunctional and dark emotions from deep seeded issues that preceded them even knowing you. They too are addicts. Long ago they created a false self. The propping up of this ego is as important to them as the walls standing in your house. If their ego collapses, it would be equivalent of the walls in your home crashing down on you. In both cases, death of identity and self.  They are addicted to supply. Attention, praise, affirmation, anything that makes them feel omnipotent, or important. Anything that will advance and accept their pathology. And just like the addict above, they begin sucking the life out of you in order to feed their addictions. You are only ok when you are feeding that ego or reinforcing it. And our self worth damage also preceded this relationship. The manipulator we met knew this and can read people. That is precisely why they filled in all those little holes they detected in our self worth. They made us feel whole, and we were addicted to them for that rush. The mind boggling thing is, how could we possibly be addicted to someone so hurtful, contradictory, callous, and at times purely evil? Who they are at the end is who they really are. What we miss, is that feeling of being whole. But we don't MISS THEM. Here's the mind bending part. WE MISS THE WAY THEY MADE US FEEL ABOUT OURSELVES. That was probably the first time in the world we felt ok. whole. And that's why the love bombing worked so well.

Two points to take in my post (sorry for the length)

1. Their behavior is a pathology that you should not internalize or take personal. Think of the drug addict analogy. We were used because we allowed ourselves to be used.

2. We don't miss them. We miss the way they made us feel in the beginning about ourselves.

    Figure out the ways they "completed" you and you will figure out exactly where your deficits of self worth are located. Build a healthy self esteem, build strong core values and set up firm boundaries.

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« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2015, 04:24:36 AM »

" They made us feel whole, and we were addicted to them for that rush. The mind boggling thing is, how could we possibly be addicted to someone so hurtful, contradictory, callous, and at times purely evil? Who they are at the end is who they really are. What we miss, is that feeling of being whole. But we don't MISS THEM. Here's the mind bending part. WE MISS THE WAY THEY MADE US FEEL ABOUT OURSELVES. That was probably the first time in the world we felt ok. whole. And that's why the love bombing worked so well.

Two points to take in my post (sorry for the length)

1. Their behavior is a pathology that you should not internalize or take personal. Think of the drug addict analogy. We were used because we allowed ourselves to be used.

2. We don't miss them. We miss the way they made us feel in the beginning about ourselves.

   Figure out the ways they "completed" you and you will figure out exactly where your deficits of self worth are located. Build a healthy self esteem, build strong core values and set up firm boundaries."


Anxiety... I know what you are saying is correct. intellectually I know it's true with every fiber of

my brain... .but there is some deep-seated part of me (my soul?), that just longs for that love-bombing, being-whole phase. The insanity of my affliction is that that longing just owns me (It overrides my intellect), and it feels as though it can be satisfied by no other than the person that turned into tthe evil, hurtful shrew, (I know that it's mental illness... .but it is still who she's is). Of course... .that is who she always was. Maybe my soul can figure this out someday! :-)

Thanks for taking the time to put our shared experience into such a well-worded description. It is just exactly what I lived!
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« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2015, 05:18:57 AM »

Anxiety... I know what you are saying is correct. intellectually I know it's true with every fiber of my brain... .but there is some deep-seated part of me (my soul?), that just longs for that love-bombing, being-whole phase. The insanity of my affliction is that that longing just owns me (It overrides my intellect), and it feels as though it can be satisfied by no other than the person that turned into tthe evil, hurtful shrew, (I know that it's mental illness... .but it is still who she's is). Of course... .that is who she always was. Maybe my soul can figure this out someday! :-)

I understand what you're saying with every fiber of my being... .it's endlessly frustrating  when your head and your heart don't align.  I am certain that, even if she were to knock on my door tomorrow, I would not let her back into my life because doing so would be like taking a large knife and plunging it into my own heart.  I have enough instinct for self preservation to keep the door shut. But amazingly... .even knowing that doesn't change the fact that I feel the same as you - as though she is the only one who can make me feel happy and whole.

I think this is a huge clue for the both of us... .a clue that the way that we're feeling doesn't really have anything to do with our ex's.  It is likely an ancient childhood longing... .a thread that (if we were to follow it backward) would lead us to the true source of our pain and longing. I am beginning that process right now for myself.

Are you seeing a T?
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« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2015, 07:23:50 AM »

Anxiety... I know what you are saying is correct. intellectually I know it's true with every fiber of my brain... .but there is some deep-seated part of me (my soul?), that just longs for that love-bombing, being-whole phase. The insanity of my affliction is that that longing just owns me (It overrides my intellect), and it feels as though it can be satisfied by no other than the person that turned into tthe evil, hurtful shrew, (I know that it's mental illness... .but it is still who she's is). Of course... .that is who she always was. Maybe my soul can figure this out someday! :-)

I understand what you're saying with every fiber of my being... .it's endlessly frustrating  when your head and your heart don't align.  I am certain that, even if she were to knock on my door tomorrow, I would not let her back into my life because doing so would be like taking a large knife and plunging it into my own heart.  I have enough instinct for self preservation to keep the door shut. But amazingly... .even knowing that doesn't change the fact that I feel the same as you - as though she is the only one who can make me feel happy and whole.

I think this is a huge clue for the both of us... .a clue that the way that we're feeling doesn't really have anything to do with our ex's.  It is likely an ancient childhood longing... .a thread that (if we were to follow it backward) would lead us to the true source of our pain and longing. I am beginning that process right now for myself.

Are you seeing a T?

I have been thru 3 years of T and one year of group T and I am in a self help group. I was in a 1-year relationship, too... which I ended for a lot of healthy reasons... .but during that relationship I still had the longing and I also realized that I was not going to trust another woman with my heart... .Period  Knowing that ... .for me... .well... .what's the point of even going there.  I also, am apparently not like most men, I always needed an emotional connection to be with someone. That was primary. Not sex.

I am not young ... .so I have almost(LOL) come to the point of acceptance regarding my feelings and I just do other things in my life. Dating and women are off the list. Completely. I am not open to it. I also watch the "antics" of a lot of people in relationships around me and to tell you the truth, most of it just keeps me away.

I can't recommend that anyone have my take on that, but after all that I have been through, it just feels right for me. I do not ever want to learn again that someone I care about so deeply can act that way toward me.

No way.
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« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2015, 08:14:41 AM »

What stood out to me was this line,"we loved how they made us feel about ourselves."

So did we even love them?

Our was it just our own plain narcissism?

What I have found for myself is that it was really a combination of of falling in love with the way she made me feel, how I felt by interacting with her and beyond that was the trancending of falling in love with my own projection and it was holding onto that which has allowed me to begin forgiving my ex and myself.  I'm not quite sure how to describe it but it was what I was really after in the first place.

But the pwBPD I have talked to are full of regrets when I met my ex she would constantly regret interactions with people from her past like ghosts haunting her and then their would typically be some sort of transference of if she could trust me? And some little random gesture would reassure her and she would shower me with affections.

We often use love bombing as a sort of blanket term but the reality is their was a lot more going on under the surface that must be explored to make any kind of sense out of it and what it all meant and why we got into such a mess. 
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« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2015, 06:12:27 PM »

Staff only

The thread has reached it's post limit and is now locked. It's a worthwhile topic and a similar topic is emcouraged in a new discussion.
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