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Author Topic: Having Trouble Adhering to NC.  (Read 4399 times)
clvrnn
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« on: August 17, 2017, 09:49:57 PM »

Hello all   

Recently come out of a 2.5 year relationship with a woman who was, as I'm finding out, either BPD or NPD. Or both. 

Basically; aside from all of the usual BPD symptoms she showed during the relationship I am now struggling with NC (which she enforced). I have changed my number, but we've spoken a few times via email.

I am finding that I am constantly thinking about her; I'm constantly checking my email inbox for messages, constantly thinking of ways to phrase a message which wouldn't make her angry, thinking of asking her to meet up with me, obsessing over her with another partner (explicit sexual imagery).

She insists she isn't with someone else, and has never lied about anything while we were together so I believe her on that - I am, however, worried about time passing and her entering into another relationship and it being 'too late' to get in touch. I'm aware it probably already is too late.

I'm sorry this post isn't making much sense, my head is all over the place.

She's also broken up with me several times so I am finding it hard to believe that this is final. We've done that whole breakup/make up cycle very often.

I personally feel quite a connection to this person and keep thinking if I say this, or say that, that she'll respond positively. However, the last time I tried this (4 days ago) she got extremely angry and began telling me that she didn't want to see me, talk to me, be with me etc etc and hurled insults at me. Extreme rage that seemed to come from no where, as I was talking to her quite calmly.

I feel like I desperately need to speak to her. I've tried talking to my friend about this, but she just keeps saying "you'll be fine" and I feel like she doesn't really get it, and while I appreciate her listening to me, it isn't really helping. I genuinely feel like I NEED this woman. Why do I feel like this?
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 06:12:32 AM »

Hi Clvrnn   I'm sorry you're going through this, it seems very natural though given the situation. How can you believe it's over for good when her mood has changed so many times in the past? It may not be over for you, nevertheless, do you want to stay in the same space with her when she's raging at you -- unfairly? That would just damage you (further).

These ideas are going to sound a little obvious but... .

Are you in counseling? Your emotions are strong enough, your unexpressed grief is lurking around the corner... .even if this isn't the end there's grief of losing who you thought she was and realizing who she really is, which happens with every r/s in the first few months and years. (And sometimes YEARS ) It seems like you have too much to keep bottled up, and you may not want to share all of these interactions or deeper roiling emotions with friends. There can be judgment which is not especially helpful.

Beyond that, things that help me through are finding other things to focus on, namely doing work I love. Staying away from the internet more, it can really foster this incorrect perception that we are intimate with others when we're not.

A big one for me is playing music. For instance this a.m. I was feeling a little anxious so I'm listening to John Klemmer. Smiling (click to insert in post) Old stuff. If my energy's low I'll put on some up tempo R&B like EW&F. I also like baths and showers to regain feeling of being at peace & energized and playing with my dog.

It may be easier for some with a busy routine, like kids at home, a very structured job etc. I have to find my own ways of keeping myself in the moment.

Self-soothing and renewing your energy and vibrancy in ways that work for you. It's a day-to-day and sometimes moment-to-moment thing.

In the past whenever I've been in a lot of pain also if I'm around people and don't really want to be, I focus fully on the person I'm talking with, look at their eyes and crack jokes with them. Humor helps.

Hope you feel better soon, you'll go through ups and downs which is pretty much life itself.
 


 

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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 07:46:06 AM »

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this. I've been there many times. The only thing I can tell you is, to leave her alone If she tells you to. There's nothing you can say once she's in this state. No amount of reasoning or saying the right words will change it.

The more you push the more she pulls. If she's a true borderline then she most likely will reach out once her loneliness and emptiness kicks in. You can't control her or the outcome.

The NEED you feel is a complex one, coming from a complex relationship with a cluster b personality disorder and the many ups and downs. The dynamics in that relationship is no different than being addicted to a drug. What has helped me, is reading up all I can about BPD and NPD in my case, to better understand myself and her. Also reading about FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 08:13:43 AM »

Hi clvrnn,

Welcome

Do you feel like if you really break-up with her that you're letting go of "the one" Are you worried or anxious about not meeting someone else and ending up alone?
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clvrnn
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 10:00:10 AM »

Hi clvrnn,

Welcome

Do you feel like if you really break-up with her that you're letting go of "the one" Are you worried or anxious about not meeting someone else and ending up alone?

Yes. I feel an intense connection to her, a belief that she is 'The One' despite all of the problems (even thought my rational mind knows that this can't be the case). Extreme sexual compatibility, feeling that I opened up to her so much emotionally that she MUST feel something for me - and above all that this just isn't final, and if I remain in her life she will come back to me (which I know is part of the cycle, but I still crave it)

I am worried about ending up alone, yes. I am 33 years old and I am starting to feel pressured to be with someone (not by anyone, but by my own standards/wants) - it's getting harder to meet people, etc.
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 11:14:08 AM »

I can relate with you're situation, deep down you know what to do, you're facing conflict with your emotional and rational mind. I think that you know what to do deep down but you're stuck on this emotional rollercoaster.

I agree that meeting someone when you're older has it's own challenges. You have a right to be happy in this life, we're compatible with many people.

Where do you think that you're current r/s is going to go in the long term?

I'll ask you this, is it better to be in a r/s and be miserable or not be in a r/s and be happy? Does being alone scare you?
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clvrnn
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2017, 08:49:13 AM »

Where do you think that you're current r/s is going to go in the long term?

I'll ask you this, is it better to be in a r/s and be miserable or not be in a r/s and be happy? Does being alone scare you?

I don't know. I believe that the current relationship, if it were to continue, would carry on along on the same pattern. While every so often she seems remorseful and is happy to sit down and talk about our issues, they just return. If we were to move in together, our finances become integrated, children being born - while these are all things I want with someone I think that with her it would all become a nightmare.

Being alone scares me, yes. I lost my mother, a pivotal figure in my life, many years ago. It was a very sudden death and since that I have been aimlessly wandering and stumbling through life. I am not close to any other members of my family (I've tried to be, but they are dysfunctional and strange, and I have no desire to try any more) - so, I am essentially on my own. I do want someone to be with, to start my OWN family with someone. So this loss has a lot more going on than just a break up, I suppose.

(I'm not really asking anyone to advise me on what I've just said, btw. I'm just venting, I suppose)

I still feel like contacting her, but I don't know what her reaction would be. I don't know if she's with someone else. I don't know how she feels. I wish that she didn't exhibit such strong BPD symptoms as maybe then it would be easier to approach her? I don't know. Maybe it's me that's messed up.
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clvrnn
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2017, 08:51:43 AM »



The more you push the more she pulls. If she's a true borderline then she most likely will reach out once her loneliness and emptiness kicks in. You can't control her or the outcome.

The NEED you feel is a complex one, coming from a complex relationship with a cluster b personality disorder and the many ups and downs. The dynamics in that relationship is no different than being addicted to a drug. What has helped me, is reading up all I can about BPD and NPD in my case, to better understand myself and her. Also reading about FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).

Hi there 

Thanks for your reply. Yes, that's usually what happens. She gets annoyed very easily and quickly when I have tried to contact her, leaving me quite confused as to what it is she's angry about. It's difficult, because I'd just like to talk without it getting like that but obviously that isn't possible.

So that's helped you, reading about those things? How has it helped you?
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clvrnn
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2017, 08:55:20 AM »

Are you in counseling?

Beyond that, things that help me through are finding other things to focus on, namely doing work I love. Staying away from the internet more, it can really foster this incorrect perception that we are intimate with others when we're not.

A big one for me is playing music. For instance this a.m. I was feeling a little anxious so I'm listening to John Klemmer. Smiling (click to insert in post) Old stuff. If my energy's low I'll put on some up tempo R&B like EW&F. I also like baths and showers to regain feeling of being at peace & energized and playing with my dog.

It may be easier for some with a busy routine, like kids at home, a very structured job etc. I have to find my own ways of keeping myself in the moment.

Hi, thank you for your reply.

Yes, I am in counselling - however my counsellor has gone away for a few weeks which is very difficult as this is all happening while she's away. No-one's fault, but quite frustrating. I am also due to see a domestic abuse 'advocate' in a few days, I wonder if that will help.

Your suggestions sound great. Music, I find, can be a great soother and healer. Oh, and love EW&F! You have great taste  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I agree with that - when you don't have a job or a slightly less structured life it can be difficult to organise yourself and keep to routines, can't it? But we try.
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2017, 09:12:29 AM »

So today I still feel like contacting her.

I am afraid to, though. I am afraid of her reacting angrily. I am afraid of finding out anything about her dating life, or whether she's involved with someone else.

The urge to do so isn't dying down.

If I contact her, will she think I'm crazy? Weird? Will she hate me?

The last time I calmly tried to speak to her, one of the things she said was, "It ended nicely, but that wasn't good enough for you, was it? You had to ruin it, didn't you?"


It didn't end nicely, first of all. Having someone suddenly break up with you and discard you completely isn't nice. Secondly, I didn't ruin anything. As I've experienced many break up make up cycles, how can I NOT believe that it will just carry on that way? Every time she has broken up with me she has reconciled with me. I didn't approach her in a rude, hostile, aggressive, horrible way. I said something like "I miss you" and she just exploded with anger at me.

I'm sick of being made to feel that I'm crazy. I may have a few emotional difficulties regarding relationships, but I'm sick of her making me out to be some insane person who doesn't know what they're doing, and who is making her life a nightmare (she said that, too).

What about MY life, and the way she's making ME feel? I highly doubt that right now she's even thinking about me. This hasn't affected her life in any way.

This whole situation is horrible. And at the end of all of that, I STILL want to speak to her. What on Earth is that about?
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2017, 10:01:26 AM »

Hi clvrnn,

It's great to meet you.  I've read your thread with interest and no surprise it sounds like you are going through what so many of us (if not all of us) have at some stage - or many times over.  Sorry that you're feeling as you are.

Excerpt
I'm sick of being made to feel that I'm crazy. I may have a few emotional difficulties regarding relationships, but I'm sick of her making me out to be some insane person who doesn't know what they're doing, and who is making her life a nightmare (she said that, too).

What about MY life, and the way she's making ME feel? I highly doubt that right now she's even thinking about me. This hasn't affected her life in any way.

This whole situation is horrible. And at the end of all of that, I STILL want to speak to her. What on Earth is that about?


I'll respond directly and hope that's OK.  What it's about is self worth and codependency by the sounds of it.  I say that because I have the same issues.  It's common amongst those of us who engage in a BPD r/s and sucks!  Along with this is the addictive quality of these relationships.  It's like coming off heroine.  :)espite knowing it's bad for us, we go back for that next hit.  You mention seeing a domestic abuse advocate.  I'm pleased to hear this.  I found (and still do) my support worker to be so extremely helpful and the support service have been extremely valuable in my detaching process.  I'd encourage you to take all the help you can get.  Was there physical abuse as well as emotional?

There's an article here that I'd like to share with you.  It made a huge difference to me at the point I was at that your situation now reminds me of.  That desperation to rekindle and the what if's despite knowing that the future was not looking that rosy to say the least... . It contains the ten beliefs that can keep us stuck and it may give you a little perspective.  It was with pride that I noticed my list of beliefs grew shorter over the course of time when I gave myself space and distance from the r/s.  I hope this helps you.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

Keep reading and posting.  You're in good company with the members here.  The people on this board were a lifeline for me when I needed it most, so vent all you need to.  We're listening.

Love and light x
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2017, 10:11:30 AM »

I am struggling with the block on block off within connections via the ample media connections in todays communication highway. I think i have arrived at the point of quitting. The most difficult thing to deal with is the lack of closure to a very close relationship. POOF done. move on. I struggle with thinking that our relationship was nothing beyond anything other for her. I am stuck with needing to hear validation that I was "the one".  It feels silly to need that. And very unlike me.  For me, the relationship was real. real love. real feelings. I know now that for someone with BPD its a wave. our relationship was out of any text book. without this closure i am having a hard time letting go of the hope.
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2017, 10:17:12 AM »

I am not close to any other members of my family (I've tried to be, but they are dysfunctional and strange, and I have no desire to try any more) - so, I am essentially on my own. I do want someone to be with, to start my OWN family with someone. So this loss has a lot more going on than just a break up, I suppose.


I am not close to any other members of my family (I've tried to be, but they are dysfunctional and strange, and I have no desire to try any more) - so, I am essentially on my own. I do want someone to be with, to start my OWN family with someone. So this loss has a lot more going on than just a break up, I suppose.

I just wanted to touch on this if you don't mind, I completely understand, your situation is similar to mind,


I just wanted to touch on this if you don't mind. I can relate with your situation, my family often, well invalidate me 99.9% of the time, they're very dysfunctional, I'm not a professional but my dad displays traits of an anxiety disorder and narcissim, my sister is the golden child in the family and there's my brother, both are avoidant, it's not a close family, there's a lot of push behavior and blame shifting.

It took a lot of self work and self care to become more aware, I was always self aware but I look past of all of that and look at their behaviors, they display that they care but I can only spend so much time around my dad, I set a lot of boundaries especially with him and it's helped me by protecting myself, he caused me a lot of pain. I also lost my mother to cancer when I was young.

I completely understand the need to start your own family, your own constellation, you may feel like it gives you purpose, I think that was important now is to be able to turn to people that support you, you can create a new family, current friends that are non judgemental and non biased, or new friends, for example I have friends that I would describe as family, I trust them, I know that they won't invalidate me and I can turn to them for support and vice versa. Anyways food for thought  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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clvrnn
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2017, 11:06:44 AM »

I am struggling with the block on block off within connections via the ample media connections in todays communication highway. I think i have arrived at the point of quitting. The most difficult thing to deal with is the lack of closure to a very close relationship. POOF done. move on. I struggle with thinking that our relationship was nothing beyond anything other for her. I am stuck with needing to hear validation that I was "the one".  It feels silly to need that. And very unlike me.  For me, the relationship was real. real love. real feelings. I know now that for someone with BPD its a wave. our relationship was out of any text book. without this closure i am having a hard time letting go of the hope.

Forgive me; what is this post referring to?
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clvrnn
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2017, 11:17:23 AM »

I just wanted to touch on this if you don't mind. I can relate with your situation, my family often, well invalidate me 99.9% of the time, they're very dysfunctional, I'm not a professional but my dad displays traits of an anxiety disorder and narcissism, my sister is the golden child in the family and there's my brother, both are avoidant, it's not a close family, there's a lot of push behavior and blame shifting.


I completely understand the need to start your own family, your own constellation, you may feel like it gives you purpose, I think that was important now is to be able to turn to people that support you, you can create a new family, current friends that are non judgemental and non biased, or new friends, for example I have friends that I would describe as family, I trust them, I know that they won't invalidate me and I can turn to them for support and vice versa. Anyways food for thought  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Hey Mutt,

I'm sorry to hear that you're a part of such a dysfunctional family. It is horrible when the very people that are supposed to care for you unconditionally are the people that exhibit some of the worst behaviour towards you.

Your story sounds painfully similar. There's also a 'Golden Child' (my uncle, who is one year younger than me but has done nothing remarkable to attain this position) in my family, and a controlling matriarch (my grandmother) who is physically, emotionally and psychologically abusive. The rest of my relatives are my uncles and aunts, her children.

Could you describe the invalidation? If it's too personal or too triggering then I understand. I believe they do this to me, too. Especially at Christmas. The entire day is watching them exchange expensive gifts and love - my 'gift' is always a bag filled with odds and ends from around my grandmother's house. I always leave feeling full of pain and anger. I've decided not to attend that for the first time, this year.

Yes. You're right. Making your own family, in a sense. It sounds like you are in a good position with some good people around you. You also sound like you've done a lot of work on yourself, which is very inspiring. It takes work to even start to work on yourself.
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2017, 11:22:18 AM »

its about the lack of closure. i am struggling with that as well coming out of an intense relationship which ended abruptly. lingering, hanging on is what i feel like i am doing now. the lack of closure creates this small window of hope, when in reality i know there isnt any. it wont change.  tell my heart that
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clvrnn
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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2017, 11:25:00 AM »

its about the lack of closure. i am struggling with that as well coming out of an intense relationship which ended abruptly. lingering, hanging on is what i feel like i am doing now. the lack of closure creates this small window of hope, when in reality i know there isnt any. it wont change.  tell my heart that

I see. How long have you been away from the relationship, and how long were you together? The lack of closure does do that, doesn't it?

I agree with you about the blocking thing, too. It's all so easy to block someone, now. Especially these BPD people - that seems to be a favourite function of theirs. I am still blocked by an ex BPD from years ago - I had an account that I made well after I knew her, and I didn't contact her from it. She still blocked me (I had an app that showed you who had you blocked) - strange.

Do you have any coping strategies that help you when you're feeling particularly low?
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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2017, 11:44:15 AM »

Hi clvrnn,

It's great to meet you.  I've read your thread with interest and no surprise it sounds like you are going through what so many of us (if not all of us) have at some stage - or many times over.  Sorry that you're feeling as you are.
 

I'll respond directly and hope that's OK.  What it's about is self worth and codependency by the sounds of it.  I say that because I have the same issues.  It's common amongst those of us who engage in a BPD r/s and sucks!  Along with this is the addictive quality of these relationships.  It's like coming off heroine.  :)espite knowing it's bad for us, we go back for that next hit.  You mention seeing a domestic abuse advocate.  I'm pleased to hear this.  I found (and still do) my support worker to be so extremely helpful and the support service have been extremely valuable in my detaching process.  I'd encourage you to take all the help you can get.  Was there physical abuse as well as emotional?

There's an article here that I'd like to share with you.  It made a huge difference to me at the point I was at that your situation now reminds me of.  That desperation to rekindle and the what if's despite knowing that the future was not looking that rosy to say the least... . It contains the ten beliefs that can keep us stuck and it may give you a little perspective.  It was with pride that I noticed my list of beliefs grew shorter over the course of time when I gave myself space and distance from the r/s.  I hope this helps you.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

Keep reading and posting.  You're in good company with the members here.  The people on this board were a lifeline for me when I needed it most, so vent all you need to.  We're listening.

Love and light x

Hi Harley,

Thank you for replying with such care and detail, I really appreciate it.

Self-worth and codependency; yes. All of that. Then because of these issues, you attract the same types of people? The same people that see someone they can latch on to and do all these things to, because they know that you're unlikely to leave the relationship and that you'll keep returning.

No, there wasn't physical abuse but she would often say things like "I'm going to have to leave - you're making me so angry that I need to leave before I do something I regret" - I believe the potential was there for her to have been physically abusive. I always felt like she was really holding back and I sometimes did feel uncomfortable during arguments with her. She'd act intimidating if she was annoyed - she'd change her physical mannerisms by stamping around and slamming doors, throwing things down, being very 'heavy' - this would happen when I'd said something or attempted to do something she may not have been happy with. I can remember in the very early days her doing this while I was at her house and I just ended up pretending to use the bathroom because I felt very unsettled with it all.

I always said that my previous partner (also BPD) would have a real problem getting a REAL relationship with a confident, self-assured person. Instead, she trawls dating apps, searching out her next victim. She's currently with a guy who, and she told me this, is very 'simple' and 'nice' and 'puts her first in everything' - to me, that just sounds like she's found her ideal victim. So yes, low self-worth and codependency play a big part, I guess.

It's really nice to hear that you managed to achieve progress with your situation and you felt yourself moving further away from the situation, emotionally and mentally - you must be really proud of yourself Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thank you for that link, that article is on the nose - very very helpful, as is your reply.

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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2017, 01:23:27 PM »

I see. How long have you been away from the relationship, and how long were you together? The lack of closure does do that, doesn't it?

I agree with you about the blocking thing, too. It's all so easy to block someone, now. Especially these BPD people - that seems to be a favourite function of theirs. I am still blocked by an ex BPD from years ago - I had an account that I made well after I knew her, and I didn't contact her from it. She still blocked me (I had an app that showed you who had you blocked) - strange.

Do you have any coping strategies that help you when you're feeling particularly low?
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2017, 01:33:29 PM »

how long apart is difficult to say with the online tools these days. face to face?  8 months. but things were not going well before that.  the social media connection is driving me crazy.  I am trying to follow positive strategies the best i can. I know staying away and keeping a distance is the right thing to do. It helps for me to say it in some form like this. so thank you.
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2017, 02:53:22 PM »

Lol. This thing is maddening.

I've now become convinced that I have to message her NOW - reason? Because if I don't do it now, she'll get with someone else and start that whole thing of saying how happy they are with the new person and that they wouldn't want to return to the bad relationship with you (even though it's them that cause it!) This is ridiculous.
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2017, 03:17:09 PM »

Would you agree that the relationship was 'bad'?

Love and light x
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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2017, 03:34:07 PM »

Would you agree that the relationship was 'bad'?

Love and light x

Hey.

What I truly think was yes, the relationship was bad. But I feel this was because she couldn't maintain the 'good' times for very long. Her mood would always be changed by something minor, or she'd stay at my house for a few days, go home, and then it would be like she was totally uninterested and would always insist that nothing was wrong. Then tension building, then her coldness/her breaking up with me.

I was happy to have none of that, and I'd always be so frustrated that this kept happening, as I just wanted a complete, 'nice' relationship with her, and I spent so much time wondering how to fix it or to stop that happening. Nothing worked. So yes, I do think it was bad, but I don't think it was me making it that way.

Yes, I have the low self-worth and the codependency and maybe that caused problems for her, I don't know. She never said. But other than that I don't think I caused any real issues within the relationship. So to potentially hear that she's happier with someone else would hurt, because I really tried my best and it wasn't good enough.
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2017, 03:59:21 PM »

You tried your best and it was good enough, because that is as good as it gets in a BPD r/s.  When a partner is trying their best.  At worst, the partner gives as good as they get and all hell breaks loose.  Nobody could expect more from you than your best, clvrnn. 

The issue here is that her behaviour is not going to alter.  Not without a great deal of acceptance on her part and commitment to long term therapy.  Recovery can take years and many do not start the journey let alone finish it.  So the cycle that you've identified could only continue.  Did you notice any pattern in the recycles, such as them getting shorter or more volatile behaviour surfacing as they went on?

Excerpt
So to potentially hear that she's happier with someone else would hurt

At the beginning of the relationship is the idealisation stage.  This is when the new partner is put up on a pedestal and is 'perfect'.  It doesn't often take long before that person is discovered to be human and flawed, which is when the devaluation begins and soon enough the discard happens.  Even if we hear our exes are happier, they are only in the initial idealisation stage, or else are putting on a facade of happiness for the benefit of the rest of the world, especially us, to create a reaction.  The ONLY way to combat being hurt by this is to not make it our business to know these details, and to be aware of what is really going on. 

Another great article that was a total lifesaver for me in the early stages of my break up was the one about how a BPD r/s evolves.  Things finally made sense for me and I realised what had been going on.  Here's the link:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

You may find this helps to understand a little more about her thought processes and feelings.  We pretty much become a trigger to our partner.  Ultimately the majority of the behaviours we experience are driven by the intense fears of abandonment and engulfment.  Whatever we do we cannot control the feelings that our partners are having.  Only they can address these and their own reactions to them.  Maladaptive coping (rages, push/pull, lies, cheating, self harm etc.) is usually the way without some external professional help to come up with healthier ways of dealing with these intense emotions.

One of the things I did when I was feeling the urge to reach out was to write.  You could write down the reasons why you think it's a good idea and the reasons why you think it's a bad idea to contact her.  Or write out all the pros and cons of being in a r/s with this woman.  Write down the ways you have been impacted.  Put in a post here what you would want to say to her and let others give you input on this.  So you're getting the words out and the feelings out.  Then see what advice you receive.  Just a suggestion.

Love and light x   

 
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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2017, 03:33:50 AM »

Your situation is identical to mine. I'm 2 months out of my r/s and I just had to stop trying to contact her because the responses are so incongruent with the way she looked at me with those blue eyes when we started dating and told me that I was everything she wanted in a man. This past week in an e-mail she called me a loser that keeps contacting her because I have no life.
You received great advice from the others. I'm going to implement some of it in my life.
If you are on your 30s you have so many years left for so many options.
I'm 57 and the days of dating and finding the "one" are not completely lost.
We can't give up.
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2017, 11:43:15 AM »

This past week in an e-mail she called me a loser that keeps contacting her because I have no life. You received great advice from the others. I'm going to implement some of it in my life. If you are on your 30s you have so many years left for so many options.

I'm 57 and the days of dating and finding the "one" are not completely lost.
We can't give up.


Sounds very similar to something mine said to me, "You're harassing me, you need to move on and stop making my life a nightmare". The thing these people come out with are horrible. I'm sorry to hear that you're also going through this. You're welcome to PM me anytime to talk, if you need to.
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2017, 11:50:18 AM »

The issue here is that her behaviour is not going to alter. 

Did you notice any pattern in the recycles, such as them getting shorter or more volatile behaviour surfacing as they went on?

Even if we hear our exes are happier, they are only in the initial idealisation stage, or else are putting on a facade of happiness for the benefit of the rest of the world, especially us, to create a reaction.  The ONLY way to combat being hurt by this is to not make it our business to know these details, and to be aware of what is really going on. 

One of the things I did when I was feeling the urge to reach out was to write.  You could write down the reasons why you think it's a good idea and the reasons why you think it's a bad idea to contact her.  Or write out all the pros and cons of being in a r/s with this woman.  Write down the ways you have been impacted.  Put in a post here what you would want to say to her and let others give you input on this.  So you're getting the words out and the feelings out.  Then see what advice you receive.  Just a suggestion.

Love and light x   

 

Some interesting points here, HQ. No, her behaviour won't change. The very fact that I'm afraid of contacting her because I don't know how she'll react just shows that her behaviour hasn't changed.

Yes, the recycling got shorter I think. Whenever she came over, I'd try to prolong the visits because I know as soon as she went home it would start all over again.

What's the thing called; triangulation? That's the main reason I'm afraid of contacting her. I know these people do things like tell you they're with someone and how 'happy' they are with this person, how you're not letting them move on, etc etc. I really don't want to go through that. Even though I realise it's all a facade it still affects me quite badly. So yes, it's best to stay away even though that isn't what I want to do.

I will try writing. I've tried writing things on my laptop but I don't know... I've done so much reading and writing about this that I feel like I've become desensitised to it, or something. Maybe it is helping but I'm just not aware of it. I don't know.
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« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2017, 05:23:31 PM »

I'm really not proud to come in here and admit this, but I have messaged her (within the last ten minutes or so). I was on WhatsApp and saw that she was online, and it made me feel so, so anxious. I wrote out a list of reasons why I should and shouldn't, and I still ended up doing it.

Anyway, she hasn't replied but was still online, the last time I checked.


I knew I would feel terrible. I felt like I couldn't stop myself, though. And now my mind is going into overdrive with reasons why she didn't respond - does she hate me? Is she with someone else? Is she now full of rage towards me?

I really feel like I've let myself down, and I also don't feel like I'm going to ever get out of this. NC only seems to be at it's strongest for 7 or so days and then the urge just becomes overwhelming. Now what am I meant to do; I probably look like such a fool.

All this talk about BPD charming, etc. She didn't even reply. I found myself wishing that she WOULD charm, earlier. At least then she'd still be thinking about me. I wouldn't wish any of this on my worst enemy.
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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2017, 03:24:32 AM »

I'm really not proud to come in here and admit this, but I have messaged her (within the last ten minutes or so). I was on WhatsApp and saw that she was online, and it made me feel so, so anxious. I wrote out a list of reasons why I should and shouldn't, and I still ended up doing it.

Anyway, she hasn't replied but was still online, the last time I checked.


I knew I would feel terrible. I felt like I couldn't stop myself, though. And now my mind is going into overdrive with reasons why she didn't respond - does she hate me? Is she with someone else? Is she now full of rage towards me?

I really feel like I've let myself down, and I also don't feel like I'm going to ever get out of this. NC only seems to be at it's strongest for 7 or so days and then the urge just becomes overwhelming. Now what am I meant to do; I probably look like such a fool.

All this talk about BPD charming, etc. She didn't even reply. I found myself wishing that she WOULD charm, earlier. At least then she'd still be thinking about me. I wouldn't wish any of this on my worst enemy.

I know how you feel. This is an awful disorder. It makes them special in ways, you just don't see in many partners. It just comes with a terrible price.

Just remember no matter how many times you break NC. It's never too late to start NC and sticking with it. You might consider a sponsor friend. Somebody you can call when you get overwhelmed that can talk you out of it. Even better if you can go see that person and hang out. I have one but not for NC. When I get overwhelmed with the feeling of regrets I call him to remind me why I shouldn't be with that person. It does help.

I envy you in a way. I can't go NC because we have a kid. I wish I could. Every time I see her, I analyze and ruminate. It's a small setback every time.
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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2017, 03:41:20 PM »

I know how you feel. This is an awful disorder. It makes them special in ways, you just don't see in many partners. It just comes with a terrible price.

Just remember no matter how many times you break NC. It's never too late to start NC and sticking with it. You might consider a sponsor friend. Somebody you can call when you get overwhelmed that can talk you out of it. Even better if you can go see that person and hang out. I have one but not for NC. When I get overwhelmed with the feeling of regrets I call him to remind me why I shouldn't be with that person. It does help.

I envy you in a way. I can't go NC because we have a kid. I wish I could. Every time I see her, I analyze and ruminate. It's a small setback every time.

Wow, that must be horrible. Having to see her and being setback a little each time. I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through that - do you have a thread on here that I could have a look at?

I kind of do have a couple of people that will talk me out of it, but I was in a bit of an overwhelming panic, and well, by the time they had replied, it was too late. But that is a very good idea and it works most of the time, I guess.
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« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2017, 03:52:49 PM »

So after contacting her, we had a conversation in which she asked why I was contacting her. She always adopts this 'teacher' type tone, almost as if I'm a child and she's a teacher? Almost talking down to me? I don't know if that's relevant. But she kept saying she 'had to be up early' and 'didn't want' me starting conversations with her when she has to be up early (despite the fact that the reason I messaged her was because I saw that she was online, hence awake) - almost telling me off for keeping her up despite the fact she was already up, if that makes sense?

So I stupidly told her that, you know, I've really been thinking and I would really like it if we could talk. That I missed her, didn't want this - stuff like that. (It's interesting, I always go into submissive mode when I'm talking to her. Deep down, I don't really miss her nor do I want to be with her or get back into that unhealthy dynamic so I don't know why I do this.) Her replies were short, telling me she wanted NC, that she doesn't want me contacting her whenever I want.

I replied that I really do try to maintain NC, but that I'm finding it hard. A few hours went past where I hadn't heard from her and her final messages were "I don't want to talk to you, I don't want to see you, I don't want to be with you, I just want to get on with my life!"

I wouldn't attempt to contact her had I not experienced a caring side to her. And the previous breakup /makeup cycles don't help - she's always come back and so that makes me inclined to contact her every so often, my mind thinks that's going to happen again. I didn't reply to those last messages she sent. I know her rage and anger will just get worse and she'll end up insulting me or blocking me or whatever else she tends to do. I just left it.

I feel like I'll keep these messages, just so that I can see - no matter what I say, no matter how I phrase it, no matter how calmly I approach her... .it doesn't make a difference.

I'm so confused now that I don't even know if I'm being persistent (I don't contact her - I have spoken to her twice in two weeks) or whether she's being unnecessarily cold and dismissive? While I can accept that yes, we've broken up - the dynamic of what the relationship was is making it feel like my thoughts relating to this are quite distorted. Usually I'd just move on, feeling upset of course, but move on. There'd be no intense urge to try and 'fix' the situation or to get in touch with her.

I wish this was over, tbh.
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« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2017, 05:29:00 PM »

It's all madness friend.  Complete addiction and madness.  Your brain is telling you one thing, your heart whispering lies to you. 

I'm four months no contact and she finally calls me out of the blue Friday crying, asking me to fly to where she was vacationing with her boyfriend to save her from him.  She feared he was going to really hurt her.  I fell back into my old pattern, promising to wire her money, get her a plane ticket, but I couldn't fly at that moment.

Next day she called me and says she's OK, she will keep the avenue of communication open (FB messenger) and we can continue to talk.  She says she's never gotten over me, she misses me terribly, and I fell back into my old pattern -- 'WHATEVER YOU WANT HONEY", why are you with this jerk, etc.  She promised we would talk Monday.

Well you know how the story ends right?  Monday I'm all excited to talk to her on messenger and she's gone again.  Completely.  Disappeared.  Not even on FB.  Family not responding to me.  Absolutely no way of contacting her.  And I'm left worried, shamed, confused.

I'm a codependent weakling.  I'm a complete jerk.  I make myself sick with self loathing she drags out of me. 

There are plenty of wonderful women out there.  As she told me so many times (and you apparently) -- you deserve better, go get better.

So... .
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« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2017, 05:45:29 PM »

Wow, that must be horrible. Having to see her and being setback a little each time. I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through that - do you have a thread on here that I could have a look at?

It was a 2 1/2 year relationship. I saved her according to her, from an abusive marriage. She had 3 kids with him. I basically took over his role because he was a real deadbeat dad. I was the savior/rescuer. She didn't have volatile traits and is high functioning. Not anymore obviously but she was with me. I kept her balanced. We had 15+ recycles over the course of our relationship. Most of them was drama which I'm highly sensitive to. Specially when somebody uses guilt/shaming/obligation to eviscerate my boundaries and causing drama and chaos. I left her every time. Got begged back or I regretted my decision out of obligation/love.

Thinking back, having one foot out the door was probably what kept the relationship balanced at first. Then I was guilted/obligated/pressed to give up my own apartment to move in with her and that's when it started going down hill. Her bad days became more frequent. There was zero appreciation of all I did for everyone. Anything that took attention away from her would cause drama. Even my phone. Every time i was sick, she suddenly was too. A convenient way to avoid taking care of me. Something I've done for her the whole relationship.

I ended up with a depression, on auto pilot, a recluse withdrawing from co-workers, friends and family. That's when I ended it the only way I could. By breaking up and telling her outright I didn't love her anymore. I called her out on her gaslighting during arguments, her manipulative and controlling behavior. I basically slammed that door so shut there was no chance of reconciliation.
It was the only way I could mentally survive and not return for another round.

I was doing just fine until she found somebody new a month later. She tried to rub that relationship in my face time and time again. It hurt a lot. That was day 1 for me. I hadn't mourned the good parts of our relationship and the side I fell for. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

If you want to know more, click my username and there should be a link taking you to my first posts
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« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2017, 09:46:27 PM »

You must keep nc- every time you break you start at 0. May sound harsh now. But it is the best advice, you will thank me later! I garrentee it!
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2017, 10:49:38 AM »

You must keep nc- every time you break you start at 0. May sound harsh now. But it is the best advice, you will thank me later! I garrentee it!

I don't really have a choice.

I tried my best to approach her in the calmest, most polite way I could.

All that came of it was me being sent a list of ways in which she doesn't want anything to do with me - as if it's I who is the horrible person. She 'just wants to get on with her life' - even though I haven't stopped her doing that. I don't need to hear any more negativity from her.

It's clear she doesn't possess empathy or compassion, or even seem to remember that her and I were just in a relationship for almost three years.

What's the point of contacting her, there isn't one.
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2017, 11:09:22 AM »

I don't really have a choice.

I tried my best to approach her in the calmest, most polite way I could.

All that came of it was me being sent a list of ways in which she doesn't want anything to do with me - as if it's I who is the horrible person. She 'just wants to get on with her life' - even though I haven't stopped her doing that. I don't need to hear any more negativity from her.

It's clear she doesn't possess empathy or compassion, or even seem to remember that her and I were just in a relationship for almost three years.

What's the point of contacting her, there isn't one.

It's an exercise in futility once they split you. It's the nature of the disorder not being able to see good and bad at the same time. It's a deep embedded defence mechanism of pure survival.

You are the only one stuck with the good memories now
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2017, 11:15:45 AM »

You are the only one stuck with the good memories now

I know. Now she sees me as someone who wouldn't leave her alone, etc etc. Been here before. She'll never remember me in a good light. Great.
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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2017, 01:14:24 PM »

At some point you may be remembered in a good light again -- but what good is that?  You are a whole person, not all good or all bad.  This is all complete madness.

After my experience with my ex a few entries up this thread -- I demanded an explanation from her daughter today -- since I was teased with hopes of reconciliation but also a little worried about how she wound up.

Daughter first comes back with physical and social threats -- and then finally says her mom "was drunk and had a moment of weakness".  Weakness?Doesn't weakness imply some attraction?  What is she being strong against?  To be with a man who she's physically afraid of?

I'm so sick of all of this.  I honestly wish I never met her. Lie down with a dog long enough and you'll get fleas.  I got fleas.  As someone else posted -- time to go back to time zero -- reset the clock.  4 whole months NC wasted.

Who cares how he remembers you clvrnn.  You deserve better.  Much much better.
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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2017, 01:42:20 PM »

I did this today. Don't do it. Fight the urge. For me it didn't solve one thing but make it worse.

That is my advice.


So today I still feel like contacting her.

I am afraid to, though. I am afraid of her reacting angrily. I am afraid of finding out anything about her dating life, or whether she's involved with someone else.

The urge to do so isn't dying down.

If I contact her, will she think I'm crazy? Weird? Will she hate me?

The last time I calmly tried to speak to her, one of the things she said was, "It ended nicely, but that wasn't good enough for you, was it? You had to ruin it, didn't you?"


It didn't end nicely, first of all. Having someone suddenly break up with you and discard you completely isn't nice. Secondly, I didn't ruin anything. As I've experienced many break up make up cycles, how can I NOT believe that it will just carry on that way? Every time she has broken up with me she has reconciled with me. I didn't approach her in a rude, hostile, aggressive, horrible way. I said something like "I miss you" and she just exploded with anger at me.

I'm sick of being made to feel that I'm crazy. I may have a few emotional difficulties regarding relationships, but I'm sick of her making me out to be some insane person who doesn't know what they're doing, and who is making her life a nightmare (she said that, too).

What about MY life, and the way she's making ME feel? I highly doubt that right now she's even thinking about me. This hasn't affected her life in any way.

This whole situation is horrible. And at the end of all of that, I STILL want to speak to her. What on Earth is that about?
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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2017, 03:53:13 PM »

I did this today. Don't do it. Fight the urge. For me it didn't solve one thing but make it worse.

That is my advice.



Thank you for your advice, Epic. I contacted her a couple of days ago or whenever I made the post; she hasn't changed. You're right. We expect them to be nice or empathetic but it never happens. It's amazing how even though we know all of this stuff about them, we still expect change. Mad.
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« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 04:36:06 PM »

Thank you for your advice, Epic. I contacted her a couple of days ago or whenever I made the post; she hasn't changed. You're right. We expect them to be nice or empathetic but it never happens. It's amazing how even though we know all of this stuff about them, we still expect change. Mad.

I told my ex I needed the handover of my son to be as short as possible because I still missed her a lot, and I needed it to help me heal and move on. I got accused of trying to ruin her new relationship.

No empathy whatsoever
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« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 04:54:43 PM »

I told my ex I needed the handover of my son to be as short as possible because I still missed her a lot, and I needed it to help me heal and move on. I got accused of trying to ruin her new relationship.

No empathy whatsoever

Lol, the two things aren't even related! They LOVE twisting things to make YOU appear as the villain, don't they? Wow. That's horrible. Cruel. Selfish.
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« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2017, 04:56:28 PM »

This describes it so well.


www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/heres-why-i-keep-coming-back/
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« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2017, 10:37:57 PM »

Every time I start feeling better, I feel like I dip straight back down. I keep Googling things about this and everything suggests that that's a normal thing to experience, but I still feel like I'm not going to get through this.

This is my longest relationship and I can't picture myself healing from this. I've just been crying and the pain I feel is so intense I can't even breathe; her attitude toward me the last time I contacted her was just so horrible to experience. I said everything about how I was finding it hard not being with her/talking to her, asked if we could meet up or talk on the phone. She didn't want to do anything and just told me to go away, basically.

I still feel like if I say something else she might be nicer, but I know she won't. I can't deal with the fact that we'll probably never speak again or see each other again (and I shouldn't want to, but I do).

I saw a domestic abuse advocate last week who gave me an exercise to complete, to do with the Power and Control Wheel? After I'd finished it, I was overwhelmed with sadness, anger, humiliation. Nothing my ex did or said was genuine. EVERYTHING was abusive in one way or another, and I just felt like, how did I not notice any of this? I feel so stupid.

I just can't see myself getting through this. I thought I was starting to feel better, but I'm not, at all.
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« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2017, 12:39:47 AM »

... .
I just can't see myself getting through this. I thought I was starting to feel better, but I'm not, at all.

I feel your pain.  My sense and hope is that you will get through this and find true love and acceptance in the not-so-distant future.  Speaking only for myself, I am beginning to realize that as a partner of a pwBPD for 8-years, I have experienced more than my share of emotional abuse and may also have a fair measure of low-self esteem and even PTSD as a result of some of the more distressing aspects of the relationship.  I am in no way giving advice, but speaking for myself, disengaging from an abusive partner (or ex, in my case) seems the only way to escape the destructive cycle; which otherwise may repeat endlessly.
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« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2017, 05:30:16 PM »


Thanks for sharing this article, which I enjoyed reading.  It does sound like the thought process of an emotionally unhealthy individual with self esteem and abandonment issues, that's for sure.  I saw a lot that I recognised here.

Excerpt
I saw a domestic abuse advocate last week who gave me an exercise to complete, to do with the Power and Control Wheel? After I'd finished it, I was overwhelmed with sadness, anger, humiliation. Nothing my ex did or said was genuine. EVERYTHING was abusive in one way or another, and I just felt like, how did I not notice any of this? I feel so stupid.


My domestic abuse support service run a course for recovering abuse victims where we spent a lot of time on the power and control wheel and I can relate to your feelings.  It can be a lot to take in so be kind to yourself and do whatever your body and mind ask for right now.  If that is sleep, give it to yourself, as with foods, air, exercise.  All the basics. 

The emotions you are going through can feel quite overwhelming at times I know, so try to balance healthy distraction with giving yourself some allotted time to 'sit with' these and allow them to be there.  Accepting feeling awful and deeply sad, hurt, angry, etc can sound a little nuts however in mindfulness we practice treating our feelings like guests in our own home.  Allow them in and welcome them, trying not to label them as 'bad/good/right/wrong', just accepting them with self compassion and kindness.  They are more inclined to pass through more quickly this way.  Fighting feelings can make them last longer - what we resist persists.  I know it's hard, so just try to remember that this doesn't last.  Hang in there.  We're with you.

Love and light x
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« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2017, 04:11:48 AM »


"I'm sick of being made to feel that I'm crazy. I may have a few emotional difficulties regarding relationships, but I'm sick of her making me out to be some insane person who doesn't know what they're doing, and who is making her life a nightmare (she said that, too)."

That is a page from my book with my exBPD. Exactly.
Over 2 months out from a 2 month relationship, and I can't stop wanting to contact her and reconcile.
I keep reading that the obsession is like withdrawals from drugs.
Again, 5 am and I remember the Luvy duvy texts before she went to work. The provacative photos she would send me while she got ready.
Then, post breakup, her doing the same with my replacement(s).
It's a sick web we weave in our minds.
I'm finally back to work after a 2 month depression. I've avoided eviction, for now.
The recovery from the "Luvy duvy" drug euphoria is my responsibility. I'm joking a recovery group at a local church after the upcoming holiday. Gotta keep moving forward.
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« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2017, 05:00:18 AM »

Hey clvrnn,
Feel for you, hang in there, it is total madness and the longer you can stay NC you will start to understand how ill they really are and how there is nothing you can do and also nothing good there for you.

I was in a ten year marriage which ended terribly. I was discarded viciously. I was not good either, "too controlling, insecure, jealous" etc... .there was nothing good in my character according to her, I needed help, needed to fix myself. So over the period of time when she decided to discard me I lived a terrible and painful life. I was living with her but in her mind she was gone, I was trying to fix things and I took all sorts of painful abuse just to keep the marriage together.

Man I was so weak, I just couldn't let go of her, I was trying and trying while she continued to treat me abismally. This went on while living together. She would talk to the world on the phone all day long but would ignore me completely. She would go out at night and I was not allowed to know where she was going, if I dared she would start "see? You are so insecure" one of the last times together she actually said "I love you but I am not in love with you, you are not my husband or my lover." Wow that hurt! But... .I don't know why I would still try to keep 'us' together. So stupid.

She then left me to go on a trip. I packed and eventually left our family home and wrote a goodbye letter. She then went nuts! I couldn't do that "don't say goodbye, I can't cope" etc, etc. I did and went NC for two months.

She then started to reach out by asking silly stuff, an address, an email address, etc, I ignored her requests. But when I finally answered one and sent her whatever she needed, she started to contact me non stop. I was now the "best person the world, she missed me, she love me so much, she had made a mistake, couldn't live without me, needed to restart our relationship"... .in short NUTS!

I learnt a big lesson and have been trying hard to restart my life, get into good things, regain my self worth. Six months down the track wth the occasional LC in which I have acted extremely non comital I feel so much better, I actually feel like she did me a huge favour in a way. I was never going to leave her, I was going to put up with her stuff forever, which really wasn't right. Of course I miss aspects of her but the ugly tough side I saw during the discardement I don't want to be close to ever again. I am 59, but feel sure that I will meet someone good at some stage, I am not in a hurry right now.

Hang in there, time will heal you, you will see this in a completely diferente light and may I say you may find yourself like me thanking her for giving you a new chance in life, a new healthier beginning, away from her chaotic and damaging behaviour. Take good care.
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« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2017, 01:18:39 PM »

Well, what do you know.

This afternoon I received an email from her. She asked me if I'd been attempting to access her email account (I haven't, and I doubt such a thing has even happened, to be honest.) It's such an aggressive, hostile message too. The subject line is 'account breach' - Initially I thought MY account had been breached, with a title like that! I haven't replied. I haven't replied because I know what this is. It's not only a bait and switch, but a 'flip' tactic.

I'm angry because she told me to leave her alone, that she didn't want to talk to me, that she wanted to get on with her life - full of rage (and still appearing so, in this email). I did as she asked. I've been going through utter hell and she KNOWS this.

I can't block this particular email address from contacting me, either. This is a work account I use and there are no blocking facilities (it just gets sent to trash, but you still get notified) - I feel so... .I know this is going to upset me, at some point. It's just annoying. I'm doing SO MUCH to get through this, and she does this. This is the second time she's done this, too. The last time was accusing me of spying on her Instagram ("Call me" message in the middle of the night)

If this had been weeks ago, I'd have replied. But I don't see the point, now. I'm so annoyed with her. Can't she just leave me alone? I thought that's what she wanted.
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« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2017, 01:28:47 PM »

I haven't replied. I haven't replied because I know what this is. It's not only a bait and switch, but a 'flip' tactic.

you have been trying to have contact with her. i understand this isnt exactly the desired form of contact you would hope for, but i encourage you not to flip this yourself.

if someone was contacting you against your expressed wishes, would you feel frustrated? angry? fearful? depending on the nature of the contact, all of the above?

and if you received a notification that someone was trying to get into your email, who would be the first person you would assume did it? you might be wrong, but would it be a reasonable assumption?

i think it would go a long way to reply to the letter. to state unequivocally that you have not nor will try to access her email. that you respect her wishes.

if you do that, youll have covered your bases, and if she sends another message like this one, you will have zero reason to reply.

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« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2017, 01:34:12 PM »

you have been trying to have contact with her. i understand this isnt exactly the desired form of contact you would hope for, but i encourage you not to flip this yourself.

if someone was contacting you against your expressed wishes, would you feel frustrated? angry? fearful? depending on the nature of the contact, all of the above?

and if you received a notification that someone was trying to get into your email, who would be the first person you would assume did it? you might be wrong, but would it be a reasonable assumption?

i think it would go a long way to reply to the letter. to state unequivocally that you have not nor will try to access her email. that you respect her wishes.

if you do that, youll have covered your bases, and if she sends another message like this one, you will have zero reason to reply.



I contacted her 9 days ago. I had respected her wishes. She has done this before, also. Perhaps that is a good idea; it wasn't me and I have never tried to do that. She herself has hacked into many of my accounts. As I said, I doubt such a thing has even happened.
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« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2017, 01:48:24 PM »

if shes done this before, and youve denied it before, then it probably isnt necessary. the question is what could it hurt. the other question that should inform the previous one is, what do you think would happen?
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« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2017, 02:03:35 PM »

if shes done this before, and youve denied it before, then it probably isnt necessary. the question is what could it hurt. the other question that should inform the previous one is, what do you think would happen?

I don't care what would happen. What I know is that I was told to leave her alone, and I did and she keeps contacting me with strange unnecessary questions. Even if she did think it was me, there's no need for contact. Just change your password and move on.

She's told me to leave her alone hundreds of times DURING the relationship, and then turned up at my house. She hasn't said this because we've broken up. This is just her. She's a nasty person.
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« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2017, 10:39:47 AM »

I give up trying to get over this. Nothing is working. Therapy not working, gym not working. No one understands and she doesn't even care about me anymore. What's the point
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« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2017, 10:42:53 AM »

it hasnt been very long since what may be the most difficult pain youve ever faced. expect that this will be a long road, with intense ups and downs. therapy is work, recovery is work, and there are no magic pills.

No one understands

when you say no one, are you referring to friends and family? your therapist? both?

whats going on in therapy?
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« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2017, 02:33:12 PM »

it hasnt been very long since what may be the most difficult pain youve ever faced. expect that this will be a long road, with intense ups and downs. therapy is work, recovery is work, and there are no magic pills.

when you say no one, are you referring to friends and family? your therapist? both?

whats going on in therapy?

Yes, I mean my friends. I'm not in touch with family for reason I don't know if I mentioned in here but they're basically quite dysfunctional so I'm keeping away. My friends are being there when they can, but I'm starting to feel even more and more frustrated as time goes on. I feel like I'm expected to just move on and be glad I'm out of it - and not only that, talking about it doesn't feel like it's helping. I've started getting tension headaches and I don't really tidy my house or look after myself, appearance wise. I just feel horrible and I can't see an end to it.

Therapy - not much, really. My therapist has been off for two weeks which is highly frustrating. I know she's on holiday and we all need a holiday but everything is happening NOW and it's just so overwhelming
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« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2017, 02:46:33 PM »

depression is very likely at play here, the majority of members on this board arrive with it. have you considered seeing a doctor about it? did you discuss it with your therapist?

I feel like I'm expected to just move on and be glad I'm out of it

dont buy into others expectations for your grief. do what you need to do to grieve.

- and not only that, talking about it doesn't feel like it's helping.


distractions are not inherently bad. if you dont feel you can get out of the house, dive into a video game, anything like that. the goal is to do what you can and it helps to slowly build on that as we can. if talking about it and thinking about it are making things worse, try something else.

do you get the sense that we understand? does it help to talk to people that do? if so, i would limit talking about it to those that understand. let your friends distract you. try to enjoy your time with them, even if its just for a maximum of ten seconds.

I've started getting tension headaches and I don't really tidy my house or look after myself, appearance wise. I just feel horrible and I can't see an end to it.

i let myself go for a while, too. it was a dark time, and sometimes it did get worse before it got better - but it did, eventually, get better. this will likely return eventually, but again, its very likely that depression is at play. trying to function while depressed can feel overwhelming.

Therapy - not much, really.

sorry to hear your therapist is on holiday, i can imagine how tough that is when youre struggling here and now and everything feels so intense. do you know if your therapist has knowledge/experience about BPD?
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« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2017, 06:43:05 PM »

Hi,

I haven’t posted for a while, and I’m quite embarrassed about what I’m going to reveal.

What I’d ideally like to receive here is some support, some guidance, and perhaps some reassurance?  (I don’t want to sound demanding, but I’m really wary of being criticised and judged, as this is a very difficult thing to come on here and talk about)

I had gone two weeks without speaking to my ex. I felt quite positive. I felt that I was making a lot of progress, in terms of not having obsessive thoughts, not wanting to contact her.

She contacted me through the email, and because I felt ‘OK’ (or I thought I did) I thought I could handle contact with her. We discussed the possibility of being ‘friends’ – she told me that I meant a lot to her, that she would rather have me in her life than not, etc. It had been a long time since I’d heard her say anything positive and so I suppose I liked it. I agreed to us meeting up. She came over, and we started chilling out and watching films, etc.

We had some alcohol, and we ended up sleeping together. The next day, she was still acting as if we were a couple; being cuddly, holding hands, etc. We spoke about what had happened, and she told me things such as “I’m still emotionally attached to you, and it’s too soon for me to become involved with anyone else” and “I love you very much and I miss you”. Again, it had been a while since I had heard anything like this from her, so I believed it.

We then spoke about what was going to happen from then, and we agreed to talk in a couple of days to see what was going to happen. She went home.

Yesterday, I called her. The conversation didn’t go very far/well, she became frustrated and angry and started telling me that SHE’S decided we can’t see each other again, that we have to go back to no contact.

The more I tried to reason, to ask that we see each other to at least TALK about things – the angrier she became. She told me that she doesn’t really care about me, to leave her alone, etc. She is refusing to see me again. She’s basically become abusive, again. Cold, blunt, dismissive, angry, harsh.

I feel humiliated and used, and very hurt. Yes, I didn’t have to go through with any of that, but now I am feeling horrible. I bought some wine earlier to numb what I was feeling, and I never drink. I don’t know how or what I am going to do.

How can she come here and act so loving and expect me to slip straight back into No Contact? I feel like it's impossible for me to even comprehend. Too painful.
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« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2017, 07:15:32 PM »

In my opinion I think that no contact takes practice, you have feelings on both sides, it's difficult to shut that off, as the emotionally mature person in the r/s, it's up to us to make changes within ourselves, we can't leave it with a pwBPD. I completely understand how difficult it is to go no contact. It's good that you posted what you need, if you need validation, support etc then you can definitely ask for that. Don't be hard on yourself, many of us here struggle with no contact, including me. I'd like to share a quote with you.

Excerpt
Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese Proverb
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« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2017, 08:03:26 PM »

Thank you, Mutt. That is reassuring advice. I have felt many times as if I am supposed to go straight into NC and stay there - despite this person being unhealthy, she's still someone I care for, quite a lot.

I worry about how I am going to begin detaching, again. I know it's probably as easy as just doing so, but it feels a lot more complicated. The things she was saying to me have opened everything up, not to mention the intimacy. I am not in the mindset of just-about-to-begin-NC at all.

I wonder if she meant all the things about how she felt about me, because the way she is insisting that we go into NC, that we don't see each other again, and then being quite abusive in terms of insulting me makes me feel it was all a lie.
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« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2017, 08:25:25 PM »

I know that it's confusing with what a pwBPD, i think that she's really both, she exaggerates her feelings a lot like a small kids d would and then you have the anger that's directed at the people that are closest to a pwBPD. The anger comes from the core wound of abandonment, she'd have to discover where that anger comes from in therapy.

I felt like there where grey areas in the r/s where things were not extreme but relatively calm, she saw my as either all good or all bad and can't see me with both qualities at the same, that's BPD.

Where do you fit in all of this? Well her behaviours are driven by the disorder, it's not because of who you are as a person, sure there's pent up resentment but the anger is disproportionate, she's emotionally stunted at the young age of a child and doesn't have she's missing a development stage with r/s's.

Have you heard of radical acceptance?
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« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2017, 08:34:19 PM »

I know that it's confusing with what a pwBPD, i think that she's really both, she exaggerates her feelings a lot like a small kids d would and then you have the anger that's directed at the people that are closest to a pwBPD. The anger comes from the core wound of abandonment, she'd have to discover where that anger comes from in therapy.

I felt like there where grey areas in the r/s where things were not extreme but relatively calm, she saw my as either all good or all bad and can't see me with both qualities at the same, that's BPD.

Where do you fit in all of this? Well her behaviours are driven by the disorder, it's not because of who you are as a person, sure there's pent up resentment but the anger is disproportionate, she's emotionally stunted at the young age of a child and doesn't have she's missing a development stage with r/s's.

Have you heard of radical acceptance?

No, I haven't heard of it... .

I'm so confused. I feel like I am going mad. I don't even know what the reason is for not wanting to see me - she is just refusing to see me again. I feel sick. I haven't eaten for two days. I feel like I've just been broken up with.

How can she not feel anything at all.
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« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2017, 08:45:26 PM »

You should get something to eat. The thread will still be here for you.
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« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2017, 08:51:03 PM »

You should get something to eat. The thread will still be here for you.

In all honesty, I'm sitting here in my bed feeling so hurt that it feels like I'm in a trance and I don't know where I am. I feel like I'm about to explode. I don't have anyone here with me to talk to, and I can't sleep. I haven't even thought about eating for two days, I don't even want to do anything. I'd rather just disappear.
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« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2017, 09:13:57 PM »

I can be anxious/angry/sad and still deal with this

I have done this before, and I can do it again

This feels bad, it is a normal body reaction.  It will pass

This feels bad, and feelings are very often wrong

These are just feelings, they will go away

This won`t last forever


I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time, these are positive coping statements that you can repeat to yourself, they can help you during distressing times. Can you give them a try?
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« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2017, 02:18:52 AM »

I can be anxious/angry/sad and still deal with this

I have done this before, and I can do it again

This feels bad, it is a normal body reaction.  It will pass

This feels bad, and feelings are very often wrong

These are just feelings, they will go away

This won`t last forever


I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time, these are positive coping statements that you can repeat to yourself, they can help you during distressing times. Can you give them a try?

Thank you. But to be honest with you, I don't even feel calm enough to sit down and do those. I woke up shaking, and unable to stop. I don't know wha I'm going to do
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« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2017, 10:14:15 AM »

What I’d ideally like to receive here is some support, some guidance, and perhaps some reassurance?  (I don’t want to sound demanding, but I’m really wary of being criticised and judged, as this is a very difficult thing to come on here and talk about)

we understand, clvrnn, and on the contrary, i commend you for being up front about the kind of support you need from us. we can give that.

i dont think there is anything here to be embarrassed of. you were (are) in a place of deep pain. she reached out and you were receptive. the 180 probably wasnt something you predicted. and it more than stings.

I wonder if she meant all the things about how she felt about me, because the way she is insisting that we go into NC, that we don't see each other again, and then being quite abusive in terms of insulting me makes me feel it was all a lie.

to echo what Mutt said, dealing with someone with BPD or BPD traits can be very confusing. this is where learning a bit more about the disorder can help us understand and depersonalize what is very hurtful behavior.

theres a great deal of turmoil and distortion going on inside her that has little to do with you, and is driving her behaviors; both reaching out, and pushing you away. if youre wondering if she set you up to deliberately drop you, the odds are against that.

more likely, the period of distance and space had soothed some of that turmoil and distortion that was, at the time, directed at you, similarly to how you were feeling stronger after two weeks. intimacy, however, is a trigger for the disorder. in other words, everything came boiling back up to the surface, and quickly. both the expressions of love and hate were over expressions, emotional reactions, which are inherently unstable for someone with BPD traits. think of a pendulum where she swings from love to hate (with little in between) very rapidly.

its complex stuff, clvrnn, i know. i found learning more about the disorder to be of some comfort, though. i realized the whole picture was much bigger than me.

re NC: "no contact" is just a tool among many other tools to help us detach. its not a lifestyle, its not a destination, and its not even something we have to do permanently.

knowing how to navigate is far more important. in order to do that, you will need to decide where you want to go from here. do you want to detach from the relationship? if so, a period of space makes a lot of sense. do you want to revive the relationship? open a thread on the Saving board, and we can walk you through it. not sure/somewhere in the middle? thats okay. we can speak to that too. for instance, it might make sense for you not to reach out to her, but to be responsive when/if she reaches out. there are options.

hopefully, it is of some comfort that you realize that after two weeks, you were doing better. the intense pain youre feeling now will dwindle over time. take it from me: i was a particularly bad case, and i wasnt eating either. it is really important to do what you can, because the lack of food can really amplify all the bad feelings, and it doesnt lend itself very well to clarity or decision making. at one point i would simply, every few hours, eat a mouthful of cheerios, and swallow it down with water. not the finest meal ive ever had, but every little bit helps.
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« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2017, 02:19:52 PM »


We then spoke about what was going to happen from then, and we agreed to talk in a couple of days to see what was going to happen. She went home.

Yesterday, I called her. The conversation didn’t go very far/well, she became frustrated and angry and started telling me that SHE’S decided we can’t see each other again, that we have to go back to no contact.


Welcome back! You mentioned that you spoke about how things would proceed. What did you both come up with? Was this agreed upon by both of you or did one of you have more to say about it than the other?

Could you share a little more about the conversation on the phone and how it went south? Did it start as a hostile conversation or did something trigger her?
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« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2017, 03:55:28 PM »

Welcome back! You mentioned that you spoke about how things would proceed. What did you both come up with? Was this agreed upon by both of you or did one of you have more to say about it than the other?

Could you share a little more about the conversation on the phone and how it went south? Did it start as a hostile conversation or did something trigger her?

She came up with the idea that she can't see me again, and that we should go back to no contact. I can't remember anything triggering her. It is difficult to speak to her on the phone, as she'll often begin the conversation with "I can only stay on the phone for 5 minutes" or something, and then the conversation is very rushed and pressured. I asked if we could meet up to talk and she said no, and I expressed how I would really find it easier to talk if we did that, and she said no.

She often becomes quite annoyed, quite hostile. She uses gaslighting frequently. Tells me I am too intense, too demanding, etc - I have spoken to my domestic abuse advocate about this and she has reassured me that yes, this is the case. It is gaslighting. She then withdraws, and doesn't want to talk - often when she feels she doesn't want to talk anymore. No matter how calmly I approach her, she always turns this way.

She would refuse all of my suggestions (meeting up, talking on the phone, meeting somewhere neutral, etc) and it feels like I am being guided to saying yes to all of her suggestions until we are in a place where we are doing what SHE wants. All of my needs and feelings are ignored or refused.

I didn't have a say in anything, in anyway.
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« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2017, 04:41:11 PM »

Is it appropriate to paste the last message she has sent me onto this board? I feel like I need some input into understanding what she's said. I am quite angry at what she has just said to me, as I am almost being told to leave her alone, that I'm messing up her life, etc. I have sent a very detailed message back, and I have disabled the account I was using to talk to her on.

It would be helpful if I could post the message, obviously without any identifying names/places, etc. Just to see if I could gain some clarity.
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« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2017, 04:45:26 PM »

You can post it here so that we can help.
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« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2017, 05:29:59 PM »

"It will always be this cycle and I just can't do it anymore. I made a mistake coming to your house but I can't take it back. I just want to be left alone. I want to move on with my life. I am stressed out all day every day at work and I leave work and have to deal with this.

If I don't take control once and for all I'll end up being ill and not be able to maintain such an intense job. I have been in a good place for a while now and I'm not going to allow anything to sabotage it. If I don't look after myself no one will. You need to do the same.

Whatever it is you're looking for or need in your life it isn't from me. I'm doing whatever I have to do. You need to do you. I'm not going engage in anymore conversation with you. I apologise in advance of when you say I'm ignoring you but I've just got to do what I've got to do.

It's not my intention to hurt you but that's what's happening. I can't stop that but I can look after myself. I'm sorry but please leave me alone now. I won't be replying anymore. You need to use the skills I have taught you and the therapy sessions have taught you to get through this difficult time. Please delete my number "


This message is something I received from her a couple of hours ago. I had asked if we could possibly talk about the situation, as it was still left hanging and I didn't know what was going on. So yeah, this is what I got back.

 I think what strikes me the most about this message is that she's almost implying that something is being done to her. Her life hasn't been disrupted by this, she is the instigator. Using words like 'sabotage' - I feel those sorts of buzzwords aren't needed.
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« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2017, 05:42:25 PM »

She often becomes quite annoyed, quite hostile. She uses gaslighting frequently. Tells me I am too intense, too demanding, etc - I have spoken to my domestic abuse advocate about this and she has reassured me that yes, this is the case.

can you tell us more about these exchanges and what happened after she left your house? what was said? what does she say is too intense and demanding?
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« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2017, 05:50:53 PM »

can you tell us more about these exchanges and what happened after she left your house? what was said? what does she say is too intense and demanding?

Sure.

What happened after she left is that my emotions were back; I was missing her, wanting to talk to her. I was messaging her with general chit chat - what are you up to, sort of things. She was responding in one or two worded replies. I tried a couple of times to say things like "I've liked spending time with you, I would like to see you again soon", etc. She didn't really say anything like that back. So I began feeling quite, well, upset, I suppose. I knew what was coming, I knew all of this was going to flare back up.

I asked her about a few things, on more than one occasion. Now, the reason for the asking more than once is because when I think about the way she was acting while with me, the things she says when she's with me and the way she acts and things she says when she goes home are all different. It confused me.

So, when we were talking about what had happened over the weekend, I'd ask if she meant such and such a comment, or something like that. She said that that is too intense.

I at one point, only once, said that I loved her. She immediately sent back three/four messages saying "I can't do this, you're too intense, this is what I don't want, leave me alone". I only said it once. We had just slept together and I personally don't feel it's unreasonable for someone to have said that.

She became more and more distant in general. Having just been in her company for two days and been very close to her, this was upsetting for me.

I think my general emotional tone may have been the 'too intense' that she was talking about, although I tried my best to adhere to her sudden cold, distant behaviour.
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« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2017, 05:56:28 PM »

"It will always be this cycle and I just can't do it anymore. I made a mistake coming to your house but I can't take it back. I just want to be left alone. I want to move on with my life. I am stressed out all day every day at work and I leave work and have to deal with this.

If I don't take control once and for all I'll end up being ill and not be able to maintain such an intense job. I have been in a good place for a while now and I'm not going to allow anything to sabotage it. If I don't look after myself no one will. You need to do the same.

Whatever it is you're looking for or need in your life it isn't from me. I'm doing whatever I have to do. You need to do you. I'm not going engage in anymore conversation with you. I apologise in advance of when you say I'm ignoring you but I've just got to do what I've got to do.

It's not my intention to hurt you but that's what's happening. I can't stop that but I can look after myself. I'm sorry but please leave me alone now. I won't be replying anymore. You need to use the skills I have taught you and the therapy sessions have taught you to get through this difficult time. Please delete my number "


This message is something I received from her a couple of hours ago. I had asked if we could possibly talk about the situation, as it was still left hanging and I didn't know what was going on. So yeah, this is what I got back.

 I think what strikes me the most about this message is that she's almost implying that something is being done to her. Her life hasn't been disrupted by this, she is the instigator. Using words like 'sabotage' - I feel those sorts of buzzwords aren't needed.

I feel like I could of wrote this thread I had an extremely similar situation with my ex partner not too long ago ... .and I share a lot of the same emotions you had... couldn't eat for a few days after a similar discard , after being pushed away only to be pulled back in for an even harder discard etc etc , it's always interesting to see similar stories.
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« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2017, 06:00:15 PM »

Excerpt
You need to use the skills I have taught you and the therapy sessions have taught you to get through this difficult time.

Could you tell us a little about the skills that she is referring to that she and your therapist have taught you to get you through difficult times?

Are these things you could be doing right now to help yourself?

Love and light x
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« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2017, 06:51:55 PM »

Could you tell us a little about the skills that she is referring to that she and your therapist have taught you to get you through difficult times?

Are these things you could be doing right now to help yourself?

Love and light x

I am not sure what she was referring to. I haven't told her the ins and outs of my therapy, I've merely mentioned that I am in therapy.  The things she's taught me; she has spoken about how to rationalise thoughts and feelings, other than that I;m not sure what she may be referring to.
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« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2017, 07:15:44 PM »

clvrnn, I'm not sure we can make any sense of this note without seeing what you wrote to her. She is reacting to something you are doing. Form here words, its is something that has happened over and over again in he relationship. In the context of her letter, she is saying that there i something very compelling about the relationship and also something that is draining. She was reminded of this in both the phone call and the letter.

Can you share your letter to her?

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« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2017, 07:21:05 PM »

clvrnn, I'm not sure we can make any sense of this note without seeing what you wrote to her. She is reacting to something you are doing. Form here words, its is something that has happened over and over again in he relationship. In the context of her letter, she is saying that there i something very compelling about the relationship and also something that is draining. She was reminded of this in both the phone call and the letter.

Can you share your letter to her?



She is reacting to me asking questions to clarify things she does/says; in this particular instance, asking what is going to happen next, etc. Telling her that I love her (once), asking her not to break it off again (as she has done several times throughout).

It isn't something she is replying to directly such as a letter or a message that I have sent.
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« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2017, 07:23:36 PM »

I think I'd like to make it clear, after having shared that, that I am not in any way harassing this woman, or being abusive towards HER.

I need to make it quite clear that she has flipped this entire thing around, and is presenting as if something's happening to her, which it isn't.

She isn't responding to a direct message from me. She is recoiling and retreating from me because she doesn't want to have to deal with the emotional fallout from the situation that has occurred. This is not the first time she has done this, this is a pattern.
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« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2017, 07:25:52 PM »

I was really wary of sharing that, as it looks, in the way that she's written that, that she's the victim, that there's something I'm doing. Now I feel that people on here think there's someting I'm doing that I'm not saying. There isn't.

She is emotionally, psychologically abusive, manipulative, devoid of empathy, everything.

Throughout the relationship, she has played on my anxiety issues by threatening to break up with/actually breaking up with me. She has always played the victim, even when I had a health problem, she told all her friends about it and it became about how SHE was going to suffer.

This message she has sent me is not reflective of what has been going on. She has phrased it in a way that makes HER look like something's happened to her. It hasn't. She is not hurt, she is not being rejected and discarded AGAIN.

She's used phrases like "I want to move on with my life" - i had not contacted her for two weeks. I had left her alone. She re-entered MY life.

I hope I'm not sounding annoyed, but I am really feeling that people think there's something I'm not revealing, or that she's suffering in some way.

This woman is a nightmare from start to finish. This message is a perfect example of how she can manipulate a situaoin and make me think it's all my fault. It isn't.
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« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2017, 07:45:50 PM »

Now I feel that people on here think there's someting I'm doing that I'm not saying. There isn't.

We are here to help, not judge. The process does require some vulnerability and openess to get the most from it. You can do that at your own pace.

In response you your request for "some guidance, and perhaps some reassurance" we opened a thread on Saving with some straight forward strategies for use after the call. We took that down at your request. As you said "I have realised I don't want to stay with her, and there is no hope."

We will follow your lead.

She is emotionally, psychologically abusive, manipulative, devoid of empathy, everything.

You know her best.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

She isn't responding to a direct message from me. She is recoiling and retreating from me because she doesn't want to have to deal with the emotional fallout from the situation that has occurred.

What is emotional fallout she is recoiling and retreating from?
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« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2017, 07:54:53 PM »

What is emotional fallout she is recoiling and retreating from?

My request to meet up to to discuss the situation, rather than how she wants to do it - through text messages. At any moment she could become full of rage if she didn't like a question, or if the conversation went on too long, if I was too assertive, and stop replying. I would have preferred to meet for that reason, so that I don't have to suddenly deal with the silent treatment.

Telling her, once, that I am still in love with her and wanted to spend time with her, again.

Trying to explain to her in a calm way how her pulling away is making me feel. "Too intense". Again, I always approached her in a calm way as I know her history/I have to adapt my behaviour/speech/be more submissive so that she doesn't become angry.

Me, telling her I enjoyed spending time with her, that I wanted to do it again soon, that I'd missed her body.


When I said emotional fallout, I meant my general expression of emotions. She didn't want anything to do with it.

Because I wasn't able to switch back into non-feeling mode in the way she did, it was an issue for her.

I feel, at this point, it's important that I say that myself and this person are both female. I didn't feel it important before, but I think it's relevant, now.

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« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2017, 07:59:07 PM »

rather than how she wants to do it - through text messages

I know that it's annoying doing it through text, the reason why she's doing it through text is because it's too emotional for her seeing you face to face.
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« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2017, 08:00:50 PM »

I know that it's annoying doing it through text, the reason why she's doing it through text is because it's too emotional for her.

That may be the case.

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« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2017, 08:32:13 PM »

I feel, at this point, it's important that I say that myself and this person are both female. I didn't feel it important before, but I think it's relevant, now.

I think the butterfly avatar already outed you  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Trying to explain to her in a calm way how her pulling away is making me feel. "Too intense".

So, too much, too soon for her.

What are the cycles and he reoccurring conflicts in the relationship?

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« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2017, 08:35:08 PM »

I have really appreciated the help I've received on this forum.

However, I am now feeling as if I perhaps did do something to annoy her, for her to cut me off. I feel like this because of the message I shared, and the reaction/questions to it.

I joined this forum due to learning about BPD and the behaviours and symptoms being very similar to what my ex-partner was doing. I felt, at first, that what I was describing was being identified with by members of the forum.

I now feel as if perhaps it isn't BPD, and that members here are viewing my story differently.

I now feel bad for upsetting my ex, even thought I don't think I have, truly, done so.

I feel that she has exhibited all of the major BPD symptoms towards me - I have read extensively about it, spoken to other people, spoken to domestic abuse professionals, who have all confirmed that she was abusive, controlling, manipulative. That she used tactics such as the break up/make up cycle, gaslighting, the silent treatment, intimidation, isolation, sleep deprivation, emotional withdrawal, disengaging, and others that I can't recall.

I've shared one message, and as I said, I feel that members' opinions have now changed, based on the questions I am now getting. It is very difficult to deal with that, as I came here for support and advice.

I didn't harass her.

I didn't say or do anything abusive towards her.

I simply expressed my emotions to her after having slept with/been around, and she withdrew and became cold and told me to 'leave her alone' - a totally disproportionate response to what was actually going on.

I feel really anxious now, as this was really a safe place for me. But I don't know, now.
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« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2017, 08:46:10 PM »


So, too much, too soon for her.

What are the cycles and he reoccurring conflicts in the relationship?



Break up/make up - this occurred more than ten times.

Telling me that I wasn't allowed to go to certain events/have certain hobbies; "I'll leave you if you get another tattoo" or "No partner of mine is having those interests, I don't want you going to any more festivals" - The time that I did go to a festival led to her blocking me for the entire day "If you can't talk to me when you're out, I won't talk to you at all" = break up/make up

Feeding me negative information about my friends, so that I stop talking to them.

Expecting me to account for my whereabouts at all times. If I had spare time, I'd have to account for where I'd been, who I'd been with. If I didn't, I was told I wasn't prioritising her. She'd sulk = break up/make up.

Expecting me to spend ALL of my free time with her. If I wanted to deviate from the plan, to spend time alone or with friends/family, there'd be conflict. However, she was freely allowed to change plans whenever it suited her. Also = break up, block, make up.

Intense distrust and suspicion of my actions, despite remaining loyal to her and never being interested or looking/talking to anyone else. I could not reason with her.

Accessing my phone, my social media accounts and going through my conversations with friends. Targeting innocent conversations and arguing. Break up.

Not allowing me to exercise at certain times. I worked out around the same time for years. When I met her, she wouldn't adapt at all around that and would argue with me about it. Strop. break up. I gave up exercising, in the end.

Double standard, hypocritical behaviour. Talking to her exes, but not trusting me and not allowing me to do so ( I didn't want to, but it was clear I wasn't allowed)

Silent treatment as a punishment.

Keeping me awake until the early hours of mornings, then often jumping into room at 7am, removing blankets. If I wanted to go to bed earlier = sulk, strop.

There are more, but those are to start.
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« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2017, 08:54:27 PM »



So, too much, too soon for her.




I'm confused about this statement. Could you elaborate?

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« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2017, 09:27:15 PM »

I've shared one message, and as I said, I feel that members' opinions have now changed, based on the questions I am now getting. It is very difficult to deal with that, as I came here for support and advice.

I feel really anxious now, as this was really a safe place for me. But I don't know, now.

this is a safe place and we can give you support.

i think members are trying to get a better picture of the back story and the conflict within the relationship. a lot of us have realized looking back at our relationship that although we had very difficult and hurtful, even abusive partners, we also did some self defeating things and hurt our relationships. of course for me, that came later, i was far too anxious and hurt to analyze or hear that sort of thing at the time. so, i dont think anyone is trying to turn this around on you or paint you as the villain here, or that sort of thing. i think we are trying to provide some perspective, and to learn more about your situation and how we can best support you.

we certainly get that this has been a challenging relationship to say the least (i can relate to a lot of the controlling behavior you experienced from your ex), that the breakup has been extraordinarily painful, and that this recent event really ripped the wounds open.

whats important now is what to do going forward.
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« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2017, 09:34:57 PM »

this is a safe place and we can give you support.

i think members are trying to get a better picture of the back story and the conflict within the relationship. a lot of us have realized looking back at our relationship that although we had very difficult and hurtful, even abusive partners, we also did some self defeating things and hurt our relationships. of course for me, that came later, i was far too anxious and hurt to analyze or hear that sort of thing at the time. so, i dont think anyone is trying to turn this around on you or paint you as the villain here, or that sort of thing. i think we are trying to provide some perspective, and to learn more about your situation and how we can best support you.

we certainly get that this has been a challenging relationship to say the least (i can relate to a lot of the controlling behavior you experienced from your ex), that the breakup has been extraordinarily painful, and that this recent event really ripped the wounds open.

whats important now is what to do going forward.

Thank you for your reply.

Of course. There are some things about me that didn't help, in the relationship. I was often quite anxious, at times. Anxious that I was going to be abandoned, left, broken up with. That is something I am still working on.

I have just been sitting here in tears because I have now lost this woman completely. After that message she sent me, I can't do anything else or contact her again. I do feel as if it's my fault. If I'd acted in ways she wanted or done what she wanted, this might not be how things had gone.

I often feel like this when she breaks up with me/disappears. I often blame myself. I find myself wishing I could just act how she wants me to act so that we don't fight, but I can never maintain it long enough, if I do try to.

I want to move forward, but I'm feeling a lot of fear and anxiety about it.

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heartandwhole
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3591



« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2017, 06:28:02 AM »

Staff only

This topic has been locked due to page length. Please feel free to continue the discussion in this new, split off thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=314572.msg12898474#msg12898474

Thanks for your cooperation.
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